It's been four months since French President Emmanuel Macron effectively declared war on French society euphemistically called pension reforms. Macron's proposal would increase the retirement age from sixty two to sixty four, effectively robbing the working class of two years of their lives. In January, French unions filled the streets of Paris with trash. Now French workers build brick and mortar barricades on highways and set branches on fire on
train tracks. Welcome to it could happen here. The escalation from protest to uprising is in part a product of how Macron forced the retirement age increase through a national assembly he no longer controls without the ability to win a vote. Macron's Prime Minister, Elizabeth Bourne, suddenly invoked Article forty nine of the French Constitution, which allows the ruling government to force there's a bill into law without a vote.
Mccron argues that because circumventing parliament to force legislation through is legal, the move is democratic. Millions across France disagree. We spoke to two French protesters, Mael, a student in Leone, and a Gat, a union railway worker at a state owned rail company about the movement. The two met through a struggle committee designed to bring people from different backgrounds and movements together to fight against mccron's reforms and four,
as Mael put it, victories for our class. A gat had this to say about Macron's anti democratic sleight of hand.
What they are using right now is a rhetorical trap which consists of confusing democracy and a constitutionalism. I don't know if I'm using the right word, but for instance, you know that they maybe you know that to impose this reform, they have been using an article which is Article forty nine point three of our constitution, and they say that, well, this article is in the constitution, we are in a democracy, and therefore this article is democratic,
which is absolutely false. It's a fallacious reasoning. It is not true. It's the forty nine point three is an anti constitution. It is an anti democratic article of the constitution. And this is what they have been trying to do lately, to say to make us believe that everything that's been happening is absolutely normal and implies with the democratic standards
of France, which is not true. Also, what they are trying to do to disqualify any opposition from the left wing is to say that the left wing party is actually an extreme left wing party, which it is not. And it's kind of they are trying to induce the kind of history in all this and to radicalize what is not. What we are asking for is simply for them to to listen to what we, for once can call the people. Generally, when you have a protest, it's only a part of the population that disagrees with the
policy of the government. But this time, honestly, uh, there are seven seven people out of ten who are who disagree with this and uh, nine workers out of ten who disagree with this reform. Honestly, I think we can call our selves the people. And in a democracy, well, what you do is listen to the people, not that representatives and not the members of the government, but the people in the fucking streets. I'm sorry.
Uh.
And and because they do not want to do that, they try to say that we are radicals and that we are supported by radical political parties. It's not true.
Yeah, it's it's very radious situation.
Yeah, this is what I wanted to say about what they're at their current strategy. Aside from the repression of which we are going to talk in a few minutes. This is what their strategy is.
Yeah, Like basically they confuse all of the forces on the left together. They say that Milansia is funding the Black Blog, you know, so it's things like that, the CGTS, the fee, all of them, it's all the same, and they all want the destruction of civilization. And I don't know. That's the discourse on the far right.
Yeah, babies, Yeah, that sounds like you're American, right too.
Yeah, and this is kind of linked to police violence, this discourse. When you were talking about how they're saying that the constitution is democratic and there's nothing you can say even though well, the point of the constitution is to bypass the parliament. I don't know that democratic. But yeah, so when it comes to police violence, the reaction is to say that the state holds the legitimate monopoly of violence,
so therefore they can represss how they want. That's literally what they're saying right now, which is worrying.
The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign to suppress the protests at an ecological action in Sanzoline on March twenty fifth. Tens of thousands of activists were met with helicopters, armored vehicles, and six thousand grenades, many of which were the French police's new and incredibly dangerous military grade GM two l CS gas grenades. One protester was shot in the head with a tear gas grenade fired by a grenade launcher mounted on an armored vehicle.
He remained in a coma fighting for his life for an entire month. Earlier today, his parents' release a statement saying that he has begun to wake up, but is not fully conscious and his life remains in danger. The day before, a special police motorcycle unit called Brav M, created in twenty nineteen to suppress the Genejean with the Yellow vest protests, was recorded threatening a group of random people that had arrested for sitting in front of a
building from The Washington Post. The cop says, quote, You're lucky to be sitting there now that we've arrested you. I swear I'd have broken your legs. Literally. I can tell you We've broken elbows and faces, but you I'd have broken your legs, one officer says in the recording. Limone reported two slapping sounds can be heard, the report says, along with an officer saying, wipe that smile off your face. Later in the clip, a police officer warns the young
people they have detained. Quote next time we come, you won't be getting in the car to go to the police station. You'll be getting in another thing called an ambulance to go to the hospital. Paris police chief Laurette Nuez said on Friday he was quote very shocked by the audio clip. Mayel and a gat We're less shocked.
This is not really a surprise, unfortunately, because well, our lease is not as ah. No, it's problematic, but maybe not as problematic as in the US. I'm sorry if I'm wrong about that. But we also follow sometimes what
happens on the other side of the ocean. And uh, but I must say that we we have had issues of police murders on the street, like and police violence, want and violence, and unfortunately that now it's not new and there is a newspaper media parts who managed to find a excerpt of I think it's a group on Whatsapple whatever of policemen talking about race, war and uh and all these kinds of things. And unfortunately we know that there are such people in our police.
So the police are they're kind of basically fascists, all of them. Like they have like one of their unions which called Alliance, and for the politics for the presidential elections, they invited the right wing party who are basically only people who talg with all about genocide. And then the classic Mariine Japan and there the far right who's openly calling for a civilizational war with Muslims. So that's the
police unions. And for a little bit of history on the police, we have, for example, one of the very violent units that you see arresting people all over friends, which are called Brigadotic Riminality or back for fort and these people come from some sort of colonial units who were in Algeria during the war and when there was a need to repress populations who previously lived in colonies and then moved to France to the main country, they
created a lot of very violent units recruited through people who were in the Algerian war to basically break down people's house things like this, beat them up.
You know.
It was really colonial practices and all of this kind of state with as a repression of pour and non white areas of town where they try to always have a strong police presence and touch people, they say in the Act, but they're really making up reasons to arrest people. Police violence is not new at all, And yeah, basically
it's easier. Need to train all year long against poor, non white people, and then during protests they come against people who have come to protests basically, which are generally different people, but not entirely different people.
Of course, the police response to protests, again says, has gotten more violence as the Jile Jean protests in twenty nineteen, but instead of clearing the streets as Macron had hoped, the increase in violence is just narrowing the traditional gap in more moderate trade protesters and the more radical protesters found in black blocks.
I've seen people in America in England saying that the movement is dying down because the inter union protests are more and more away from each other. But in the actual protest people are much much more radical. And what happens is that the people who are in the front of the protests before the union and who may potentially fight with the cops that the Union will never do, they're more and more numerous, Like four times bigger than the protests months ago, and so the cops cannot charge us.
Every time they charge, people get around them, and there are rocks which happen to hit their heads.
I don't know how Yeah, cry ask about that a bit, specifically about the dynamic of there being a sort of I don't know, I kind of divide between the sort of more builtant people who are fighting the car and the sort of more moderate like trade union like protesters. I wanted to ask, I guess, like how firm has that separation been and what I guess have the unions been doing here? Have they been trying to contain things? Have they been trying to push forwards?
Well, I think it's a very recent phenomenon kind of, especially the way it's taken from now, because it's basically a mix of a black block and some le Jeune and some random already called people, yeah, yellow vests. But so the black block it started really in twenty sixteen. Before this was no real black block all the time at protests, and the attitude of the unions is that they hate the black block. It's pretty simple. I mean, not of course, as everyone who is in a union,
but the unions who organize the protest. They don't want anyone in front of them. They want people to go behind them and follow whatever they want to do. So they've been really aggressive. But even if there are conflicts right now, I would say the fact that the people in front of the union are more and more numerous, I think there's somewhat less tensions the unions. I don't think they feel like they can really push against even the black bloc or radicals who break stuff.
If I may add in something, indeed, there is a difference between the attitude of the union directions, let's say, and people like me, the simple unionized workers. And what Miles said is absolutely true about the the hate, the Yeah, they really don't want any black blocks, especially in front
of them. But what I observed in these over the last few demonstrations is that what we call the cortege, which is really the very head of the demonstration, even in front of the unions, the official union group, where there are the black blocks and the yellow vests, there are more and more people. I was I was like, I was going to say, like me, but I'm a bit of a still a bit cowardly, and I'm still
afraid of of getting in this kind of place. But there are more and more unionized workers who mingle with the black blogs and et cetera. And I you know, we also have what we call manifestations sauvage, the wild and and not organized protests that are not organized by unions but are kind of spontaneous.
They opened after Macro forced the reform through parliament without a vote, and people just went in the streets without the union and they burned. There were images in Paris of everything burning. It was that day, and that's what we call wild protests.
Yeah, and for the first time I saw unionized workers joining in. That is crazy, because they were feeling that what the unions were proposing within the legal and pacifists and nice frame was not enough because really our president was really just making fun of us and we couldn't have it, and what we usually do was not longer enough for us. And this is really something new.
I asked about the appearance of the Gilijan in the current protest and what that you thought of them, Mael. The student was somewhat dismissive, but the impact that Jile Jean had on a GAT and the railway workers was very different.
I can say a little bit, but I don't know much about the yellow vests. For what I saw of the yellow Vests were a lot of blockages and people against taxes on gas. And the way it radicalized was towards some form of radical democracy, but maybe not so radical, because they wanted the mass movement seemed to end on the demand for referendums. Basically, they wanted to be able to call their own referendums, and the demands were not
directly linked to economics. And as I saw them many very often, and when we saw them in protests in lyon, they work no weird, but I don't know them very well. What I saw was that the government repressed them really, really hard, much harder than the usual protests that we do, because they were really scared of them.
Yeah, because I took part to the yellow vest movement, and I tend to disagree a bit with your analysis on this. Yeah, no problem, no, no, no, no, it's just a I'm just saying, and it's not an attack
at all. At first, I must say I hainted this movement because well, just long story short, it began in twenty eighteen, and in twenty eighteen there was a big movement in the SENCF where I work in the Railway Public Company because the current it's very funny because it's the current Prime Minister who was the tra and Sport Minister at the time.
They just view them around, they keep we keep seeing.
It's absolutely I can't stand that anyway. I have a personal vendetta with this woman. And we had been trying to fight off the well, they kind of started to kill off our company. It's only now dying of its slow death. But this is where it really well, this is where the end really began in twenty eighteen for us.
You mean by privatization, they're killing the content.
Yeah, we are not private yet, but the door has been opened one yes. And so it's been a really really hard protest for us and we in the end we lost. It was really hard, and after that we we've been I've seen these people the yellow vest stand up and take on our songs to make them their own. The famous only lap. It started with the in the railway world, and it really started in Lyons. I was there and suddenly these people whom I did not see by our side a few months before, started to invade
the streets and sing our songs. I was really outraged. I was furious, and then I fortunately I spent time with the people who are more intelligent than me and who said that it was worth going to see these people and see what was on their minds and what they were thinking, especially because there were people who had never before protested, They had never been on the street to demonstrate about anything, and they were right to do that. And it all started with the price of oil and
of gasolina. And I found that really really insignificant, and in fact, it really opened my mind about the reality of other people, because I do not have a car, but some people have a car, and they needed to live together, to make a live in And not only that, but the motives of the protest. They roaded and roaded these people. They got politicized at such a speed, a high speed. This is incredible because quite rapidly the what they were demanding were. It was not simply the lowering
of the oil price. It was also more democracy, it was more social justice. It was against the cancelation of attacks unfortune of the great fortune of people on great tealth, and on climate. Also, it merged with a lot of climate demonstrations and it broad it really it was about really a social model and what world we want to live in tomorrow. And so this is why I say this movement was really incredible. It was also incredible because it was taking place without the unions. It depends on
the regions. In France, in Leon, for example, there is no love lost between the Yellow Vests and the unions the direction of the unions. But in other regions like in South and France or in the North, it's very different. And soon they began to protest together and the Yellow Vest they they they gave us a new a fresh new breath. It was really a fresher breath of fresh air.
There was such spontaneous, they were so spontaneous and so angry. Also, you know, they they they remind they reminded us what it was to be angry and to have the right to be angry and not to be helpless in front
of an unjust policy. And it really changed changes. And as just like I said that earlier, that in this very movement, the movement we live in now, there are there are unionized workers who mingle with the black Dog for example, well, there were a lot of us unionized workers in the Yellow Vest too, and so yeah, it influenced us a lot.
I think we can say that if twenty sixteen added a black block to the protests, now with the Yellow vestic change completely the way we protest as well. All the blockages are like much more regular, and the way we're people fear less, you know, to demand things and to organize without unions. I think we can say that it definitely changed things. Yes, Also personally, I think that if I say wrong things about Yellow vests, why, I
don't know. The important is because yes, the concerns about oil gas price was not one of buying because I live in the city and I don't have a car, So I think it affected more the country, the countryside of France, which is more concerned with gas prices, yeah, than big cities. Also because we already have lots of political movements here, so like it's conven different. I don't know, this is sport very well, to be honest, maybe I should just show up.
No, I mean, it's it's interesting to me because I remember when the Jilla Jehan's protests started up, there was a lot of debate outside of France and kind of like westerners observing the protests to are these guys. Is this something that's like a positive movement? Are they all right wing? And it's interesting that the in which kind of all of these different sort of eras of protest movements in France have melded together for this most recent
kind of uprising. Like you've got you know, the the you've got these trade unions, you've got Gills Jen's, you've got the Black Bloc, all sort of working as different pieces of this of this uprising, you know, based on kind of the different tactics of their eras. That's fascinating to me.
I was discussing and saying that it's kind of a feature of movements about pensions, even if they can be very different, that they tend to attract a lot of people. And at first the protests were not very radical at all compared to protests we could have with similar sizes. But gradually the movement is radicalizing a lot, it seems to me, the people who are in and the fact that it tends to mobilize everyone at first, even if it's not very radical, when it's created this sort of
mingling of everybody. There's a Yellow Vester Union, the Black Bloc, everybody except to political parties because they're useless.
But alongside the radicalization of protesters from all walks of life inside France, there's been a surprisingly strong international reaction from other European workers and activists.
You know, I'm wondering. You know, during the Black Lives Matter protests in the US and twenty twenty, international attention was significant, and it was to some extent useful in terms of helping to raise money and stuff for different bail funds. People from all around the world helped to that extent. But I'm wondering, is the degree of international attention by other countries left wing movements on what's happening
in France right now? Is it having an impact directly or is it just sort of like noise.
Well, on my part, it seems to be a lot of noise, yes, because a lot of people seem to misunderstand completely the situation, and yeah, they just give their opinion and that's fine, I guess. But I think there
may be actual solidarity with some militants. I mean, I know among anarchists that there are an archists who come from Italy, Switzerland, Germany and other countries who try to help actions and protests and I'm pretty sure that among unions there's international solidarity as well, but maybe I got you should say something about this.
Yes, there is international solidarity. Honestly, this is not something I was expecting. But for instance, last week in Belgium there are workers from a total plant that actually blocked the freaking port and to prevent them from sending product to substitute it from to the product that was blocked by protesters in France, and that was This is for me, This is absolutely wonderful. And yes, so yes, there there
are international solidarities. We have been in our inter professional assembly, because we have a local inter professional assembly, and we have been expressing our gratitude to the people in Greece, in Argentina, in Spain, in Germany who expressed their support
openly and personally. I was really surprised to see how many people actually were being attention to what was happening in our country, and it gives us, well, it gave strength to many people, and it also gives hope because I realized that, well, you know, the main leverage we have on our lititicians is the economical beverage. And so when the bosses a big companies and investors and everything start to say, well, guy, uh, your reform of pensions in France is starting to make a mess in Germany,
in Spain, in Greece. Please stop your madness. Well, this is a leverage I was not expecting. We are trying to use the leverage of the big wealth and UH and and the big companies in France, which is already something quite hard to move. And that was really an unexpected support. And we really hope that it's going to have an because Macaron is very uh. He's a narcissistic
guy and he lost his own image. So if his image is starting to suffer internationally, I think this is going to be a big problem for him, and his image at the time is really a catastrophe.
Belgium, of course, is not the only place for blockades are happening. They've become a staple of the uprising in France as well.
I'm very interesting talking about the blockages of the highways around Lyon, because many cities are trying to do this. There is then which is in Brotain, which manages to block the highways very often, and so they started in Lyon and we tried once a few weeks ago. It was a call by the unions with a few points to block in the morning and people the militants from all over join the points at like six am or
seven am, I don't remember. But when people arrived there were cups everywhere and they were pushed away and circulation and capitalism could work normally and everything was fine. So we were very frustrated. So reorganized completely and through the Struggle Committee, we assembled people from general assemblies all over the city and also various groups, and we managed to organize a blockade last Thursday, and it worked pretty well.
It was not exceptional, but for first trip, people were very happy about it, and it led to many people from all over in the movement working together on a project and meeting together in assembly and then being together on blockages. And I think its moments like this which
are very important for the movement to develop. I'm not sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting action in terms of economic damage, especially if we don't stay very long, but the different social relations it can create, and I think it can have a lot of influence in the movement, especially when we're thinking about the unions and the leaders of the unions who don't want to mobilize too much, we don't want to go too far.
What can we do outside of that? Well, I think that's part of the answer, at.
Least, I agree.
Yeah, I think that's only that was interesting to me because I think the roadblocks and barricades like that as a sort of social site is like a really it's a thing you see a lot in the past, like twenty twenty five years of protest movements. This was a big deal in like Hawk in twentyd and six. There's a lot of similar stuff in Tehran during the uprising there. It's interesting to see it sort of like re entering the repertoire of stuff.
Yeah, the kind of the different species of social interactions that are made possible by these kind of zones of autonomy that are creating.
And they ask a lot of new questions for militants, how to hold a barricade against cops and against cars. It's a lot of different questions which I think they can radicalize people at least two demand more things. So it's not clear what they want to demand for now. Yeah, I just wanted to say that I'm really really happy to see people from different parts of society really coming together and accepting to work together, like so many things impossible.
Now as a student, I've met basically sans from all universities in my town. I now have free access to all publications in French and I'll never pay for anything. It's really really great. In terms of blockage, there is just south of Leon, there is an oil refinery which is not on strike. It's among the only ones. So it's really important because in France there's a special system because they wanted to stay independent from all producers, so they import the oil and then they refine it in France.
So basically, if we stop all the refinery, there is no more gas for cars, and right it's becoming a real problem because of the strikes, and this one stays open and so people have started to try and block the entry. So right now there's like something like fifty union workers and like fifty radical militants who come there
every morning. Well not this week, but last week they were doing it because this week we haven't said, but everyone is on holiday kind of somewhat, the students are on holiday, so many people take their paid leave right now as well. It's kind of a special time. Soone but next week, probably the blockages aren't going to start again. And it's great to see union workers meeting with more
radical people who try and get an action together. I think when there is story diarity that exists, great things can happen.
If I may add something about blockages and everything, what works pretty well, and it's it's quite satisfying. Uh, there are big days of mobilization. And what what has happened several times now is that on the very same day, at the very same time, there are several appointments a little everywhere in the in the town, and to block something, to block a highway, to block a factory, to block
a school or whatever. And this allows, uh, it allows us to to dispatch and to stretch the forces of the police, and so they are never enough everywhere to stop us. And that makes that can make that can make the day a real success because you have a lot of things happening at the very same time, but there is only so many cops. So yeah, it works pretty well.
This is interestingly the same analysis the US police came to in twenty twenty. It's easy to stop one large action, but several smaller actions split police forces and prevent them
from just caddling one large block of protesters. I guess I think I was interested in is that I think one of the things that happens in the US a lot is you'll get a national day of action, but all of the actions like there'll just be one giant action in a city, and you don't get the kind of like diffusion that's been helpful with spreading out cop numbers.
And I was wondering, like, is this something like the unions are specifically planning to have multiple events all over the place, or is that something that's been happening like outside that or.
No, no, nonser unions only and when they plan for a strike and for protests.
There are also actions, but only one action and the others are organized by I mean regular people or no.
But like you mean the actions on the day, they're not organized by the national union's local unions which do the actions, right, that's what you're talking about. Yes, absolutely, yeah, so there are local unions because in friends, unions are very federal. Somewhat's this we can talk about it. It's a bit of a problem. But like you know, the SEGET it started out as an archiest union, so they
were like very into federalism and all of this. So there is local autonomy, and what happens is workers in very mobilized sectors like the railways, the energy workers, they were organized through their union actions on that day, for example. And on top of this, for example, you have students in a certain high school or a certain university who
decided to block something, and for example, they need support. Recently, there was a notably right wing campus who was blocked by students, and so a lot of us came to help them because we've had never seen this campus blocked ever. And of course what happened was some fascists attacked them, but we were much much more numerous than them, so it was no problem. But the next time they had a blockage planned at this campus, yes, they ended up
not having enough numbers so they can sold. But the fascists didn't know that it was canceled, and so they all came really armed with metal bars and all of that. You know.
Still, despite the threat of fascist streak gangs, and they're better armed and more legitimate counterparts in the police, the protests continue. They continue to block roads, they continue to occupy universities, they continue to strike, they continue to fight the police. They continue to find new forms of resistance, new forms of solidarity, new worlds composed of people who in ordinary times would never have met, and in the process they continue to find new ways of being free.
Beneath the cobblestones, the beach sat another generation of French protesters in May of nineteen sixty eight. All you have to do is pick it up and throw it. It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
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