Welcome back to what could happen here. It's still Cherene and I'm still joined with the one and only James Stout.
Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me.
Yeah, anytime the listeners they get what they want, you know, they demanded it, and here we.
Are delivery log onto the subreddit.
I was interested in having someone else receive the information I had because it's really hard to do it with myself. And it's also hard not to like sound like a boored professor or something, because I just sound.
Like this something I have experienced with. Yeah, you like a pro professor. But it's also very emotionally challenging to just be like, here some terrible fucking things that have happened again and exactly.
Yeah, when you buy yourself, it's like it feels a lot heavier for some reason. Uh, And so I'm glad to have someone else on Thank You today. I wanted to talk about something that happened seventy five years ago this month. So there's going to be some history here, but I think it's really important history, So please stay tuned if you want to learn some stuff. But seventy five years ago this month, before Israel was officially established
the Dairya scene massacre happened. This massacre was part of the Nekba, or the catastrophe, and it matters even seventy five years later, and it should always serve as a reminder of the atrocities and massacres that took place in order for a country that was already there to be stolen, renamed, terrorized, have people killed and forcibly removed from their homes, and the indigenous people were expelled from their homes and the
ownership of their own land was granted someone else. And I think reminding everybody of what happened to make that happen is extremely important because we're not that far removed from that. Brulu. It's not like we can say, like, oh, that was medieval times, like people were different. It's like, no, that was like less than one hundred years ago.
Shut up.
The Nakba aka the catastrophe in Arabic, it refers to the violent expulsion of approximately three quarters of all Palestinians from their homes and homeland by Zionists militias in the New Israeli Army during the State of Israel's establishment between nineteen forty seven and nineteen forty eight. The Nekabo was a deliberate and systematic act intended to establish a Jewish
majority state in Palestine. Amongst themselves, Zionist leaders used the euphemism quote unquote transfer when discussing plans for what today
would be called ethnic cleansing. The roots of the Nakba and the ongoing problems in Palestine and Israel today they lie in the emergence of the political Zionism from the late eighteen hundreds, when some European Jews, influenced by the nationalism that was sweeping the continent, they decided that the solution to anti Semitism in Europe and Russia was the establis publishment of a state for Jews and Palestine. They began immigrating to Palestine as colonizers, where they started depossessing
indigenous Muslim and Christian Palestinians. In November of nineteen forty seven, following World War II and the Holocaust, the newly created United Nations approved of a plan to divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, against the will of the majority indigenous Palestinian Arab population. Again, this was not their decision or choice to make regardless the UN approved of a plant divide Palestine into Jewish and Arab states against the
will of Palestinian people. It gave fifty six percent of that land to the proposed Jewish state, despite the fact that Jews only owned about seven percent of the private land of Palestine and made up only thirty three percent of the population, and a very large percentage of this percentage of thirty three percent were recent immigrants from Europe. So handing over more than half of someone else's land
truly does it make sense. I don't care what religious text or citing, it was wrong at this point in time to take that land. It was just wrong. The Palestinian Arab state was to be created on just forty two percent of Palestine, even though Muslim and Christian Palestinians made up a large majority of the population and were indigenous to all of the land. Jerusalem was to be governed by a special international administration. Almost immediately after the
partition plan was passed. The expulsion of Palestinians by Zionists militias began months before the arming of neighboring Arab states began to be involved, so there was no other person to say don't do this, or like there was no one else to fight to hold them back. I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And by the time these Zionist militias and the new Israeli Army finished, the new State of Israel covered seventy eight percent of Palestine.
So they didn't even follow the rules either. They just kept on following up the land that wasn't even there, speakin with with this violent Nekba that it's just it's it's a terrible, horrific thing they did. There is a film on Netflix called Farha. It's the first film that depicts any kind of story about the Nekba, and it's by Palestinian filmmaker. It's really powerful. I would recommend seeing that if you want an example of what happened, because it's all factual as far as like the terror that
they did, so I'd recommend that film. Give it five stars for the haters, you know what I mean?
Oh guy, I can imagine. There were reviews just like yeah, death, Yeah.
That was the film that the Israeli government tried to to ban, and they were a lot of Zionists were commenting like terrible things about it and giving it one star or whatever. They wanted Netflix to take it off Netflix, but no, we fuck the haters. Help us out five stars. Put it on the background of your TV.
It doesn't matter, just keep streaming on those we get Exactly, Yeah, strike a blow against colonialism, but that's.
Just an example of how important and scared they are of the truth because it's a movie. It's a fucking movie.
Yeah. The control of the narrative is so important in these things, exactly. Yes, And even the way you refer to it, right, not not calling it the knock, like calling it a transfer, not a cleansing, exactly, calling it, like not referring to it in the same terms as we would do like the genocidal set of colonialism that settled this country, or you know, the way that Britain and France and Germany behaved in Africa, like trying to not like specifically opposing calling it an apartheid state, right
when when that's what it is, is what it does. Like, all of those things are so important, and they might seem like petty battles, but they really control how we see things. I think when you control language, you can control how people perceive things.
And I think controlling the narrative is so parallel to like controlling the history books, because that's what gets remembered by the people that want to the narrative to have a certain thing. Not all history books, obviously, but a lot of the times the things that are considered facts are biased. You know, I don't know if that makes sense.
Yeah, Oh, you're only getting half of the things, right or like, Yeah, I mean, as a historian, we are all biased, and so we should declare our biases and sort of go forward that way, rather than presenting our biases as unbiased and neutral and then obviously creating a biased thing, which is what we tend to get in the US, especially when we look at this stuff.
Right, Yeah, No, totally. I love that. I Like, I didn't bash historians, but I criticized them. But you're like, I'm a historian.
Yeah, I will not jump to the defense of science
historians I've worked with. Like, there's a chapter in my book about volunteers in the Spanish Civil War, and like about thirty percent of volunteers were Jewish people, right, and many of them had been like couldn't go back to Like there are some of them who like fought in the Spanish Civil War, were gorillas in the Second World War, survived the Holocaust in some cases, and they were anti Zionists, and so like they didn't have a place like the you know, there wasn't a place for them as people
who had had stuck to their very decent principles of like you shouldn't impose shit on force for people who don't want it, and we're opposed to fascism or opposed to colonialism. There wasn't a place for them in that sort of post World War two Jewish movement, that Zionist movement.
There were in other places, but yeah, it's very sad that their stories aren't like like if a friend of mine was the person who first wrote articles about them, but like their memory is completely erased, right, or at least it's not present, And then they should be people that, like any reconall person would be very proud of, right they were willing to die for someone else's battle, and
then yeah, they were kind of that. They're they stuck to the same principles the whole way through it, and the world kind of moved around them.
Yeah, And I mean, I think as time goes on, those things won't even be existing in people's reality, you know what I mean, Like if no one remembers that that happened, if no one is part of what that happened, like it's just going to go away. It's going to disappear.
Yeah, that's why it's so important to do history and to do like to use different sources, right, and to do history from a people's perspective, not from a perspective of people who were in power. Exactly, history from below, that's what we call it. Say that sounds one more time if people call it a history from below, but like and to look at other sources, right, like without like riding my hobby horse too much. Like I was primarily a historian of sport and anti fascism, and like
specifically sport. I got a ton of pushback on when I started because it's not important, right, and it's not you know, it's not like fucking I don't have any charts or whatever, and like, it's actually very important to where people were able to express who they were and who was on the team and who was not on their team, right, And that's where you find these people
who are very impactful lots of other areas. And I think like if I was a younger person and I was trying to find my way from my identity and be like, hey, the Sionism seems wrong, like in the same way that other things seem wrong. To have those people to be like, yeah, these people also saw that right, Like they didn't want a boot on anyone's neck, not just not, I didn't want it to be their boot
on someone else's neck. And that was fine, you know, they like having seen the Holocaust, having seen what happened in to Spain, the like, now that this shit is wrong, it's still wrong, doesn't matter if we're doing it.
Yeah, their humanity prevailed.
Yeah, And it's important for people like to have those those stories to be like, Okay, well I'm not fucking crazy or it's not that I just don't understand what it was like back then, because a lot of people could see it and were like, no, we shouldn't be doing this.
Yes, well, historian James, thank.
You for joining me today.
Sorry, No, why are you apologizing? I love that shit? Fuck No, I love it history from below that you said, Yeah, just quite no theme now, I think it's a good thing to abide by. So I'm glad that there's a little catchy phrase for.
It, Stewart Hale and things like that. Yeah, we'll do another episode on this one day.
Yes please. So, as we mentioned before, Israel stole about seventy eight percent of Palestine and then this left twenty two percent, and the twenty two percent was compromised of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, and these regions fell under the control of Jordan Egypt, respectively. In the nineteen sixty seven war, the Israeli military occupied the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza, and Israel began colonizing them shortly afterwards.
And just to give you some numbers, I think they're important sometimes just to get the context of the scale of something. But the Nekaba, by the numbers, is what I'm about to continue. Between seven hundred and fifty thousand and one million Palestinians were expelled from their homeland and they were made refugees by Zionist militias, amounting to approximately
seventy five percent of all Palestinians. Between two hundred and fifty thousand and three hundred fifty thousand Palestinians were driven out from their homes by Zionist militias Between the passage of the UN Partition Plan on November twenty ninth of nineteen forty seven and the establishment of Israel on May
fifteenth of nineteen forty eight. Prior to the outbreak of war with the neighboring Arab States, several dozen massacres of Palestinians were carried out by Zionist militias and the Israeli Army, which played a critical role in prompting the flight of many Palestinians from their homes. More than one hundred Palestinians, including dozens of children, women, and elderly people, were massacred in the Palestinian town of Dariusne near Jerusalem on April
nineth of nineteen forty eight by Zionist militia. This is the main massacre I want to talk about today because it's been exactly seventy five years on April ninth. But it was one of many massacres, and it was the one that is cited as igniting a lot of the
Codomino effect. The massacre at Daria scene was one of the worst atrocities committed during the Nakba and a pivotal moment in Israel's establishment as a Jewish majority state, and again it triggered the flight of Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem and beyond. The Dariacene massacre is commemorated annually by Palestinians around the world. Approximately one hundred and fifty thousand Palestinians remained inside what became Israel's borders in nineteen
forty eight, a quarter of them internally displaced. These Palestinians, who are sometimes referred to as Israeli Arabs, were granted Israeli citizenship, but stripped of most of their land and governed by violent, undemocratic military rule as of nineteen sixty six.
As of twenty twenty three, there are more than two million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, comprising more than twenty percent of Israel's population, and they are forced to live as second class citizens in their own homeland, subject to dozens of laws that discriminate against them in almost every aspect of life because they're not Jewish. Let's take our first break here and I'll come back and tell you more
terrible things. So here we okay, we're back. I'm going to finish up a little bit more of these numbers and then I'm going to talk about Darius. More than four hundred Palestinian cities and towns were systematically destroyed by Zionist militias and the New Israeli Army, or they are
repopulated with Jews. Between nineteen forty eight and nineteen fifty, most Palestinian communities, including homes, businesses, houses of worship, vib urban centers, they were destroyed to prevent the return of their palace Stinian owners who are now refugees outside of Israel's borders, or they were internally displaced inside them. Today, there are more than seven point two million Palestinian refugees,
including Neckbus survivors and their descendants. They're located mostly in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza and neighboring Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, and they're denied their internationally recognized legal right to return to their homeland. This is the last big number I want to say, just because I think it's it's so big I had
to say it. Approximately four million, two hundred and forty four thousand, seven hundred and seventy six acres of Palestinian land was stolen by Israel during and immediately after the establishment of the state in nineteen forty eight, millions of acres, Like it's not just a tiny little place that no one was in before, like noe, millions of acres of land were forcibly stolen.
Yeah, so yeah, and all of them, like the land that people have had for generations that they're farm Like this is like it's not the oldest settlement on earth, but people have been living here for tens of thousands of years.
I said, Aluxey Yesterday was built in ten thirty five.
Like yeah, this shit is very old. And like sometimes the same people or people's sort of family. It's not just a loss of property, so lots of everything that's sacred and like the Aluxa Mosque or these things that are sacred and important to you, you know.
And yeah, and so more it's what you said earlier. It's like we have to remember these things because otherwise they'll get forgotten the in whoever's recording the history, you.
Know what I mean, Like it's yeah, I mean they have been here. Right when we look at how America sees itself, it sees the land that it expanded into. It's like Terrannullius, like like empty land that was unoccupied, which it was not. There was not a wilderness to tame. Like there were people living here and they were living very happily, and they were living they weren't like I don't want to do the whole like like in commune with nature thing, but like this wasn't a wild and
savage place, right. There were people existing here and taking from the land and living on the land, and like we that just doesn't get fucking like Ruth Bader Ginsburg was citing the doctrine of discovery, you know, like you all the libs love Ruth Bader Ginswick, but like it's so subsumed into what America is that Like like Obama did a fucking tweet like this nation was built on
peaceful protest. It was built fucking genocide, Like fuck off, yeah, but we've allowed that to just go completely forgotten, right, Like you don't go to school in California and be like, oh, there is a fucking unit they just changed. Actually there was a Unipero Hessea High School and like this is a person who did genocide. Like we wouldn't have a fucking Gerbels High School in Germany, you know, and then
Britain does a shit too. I'm not not like I'm in a glasshouse, so I didn't say that, but yeah, this wasn't an empty place, and.
It's really important to remember that because that is so often the talking point of fucking stupid people that try to defend what Israel is doing. Let's go to now the main massacre or topic I want to talk about today, which happened on April ninth in nineteen forty eight, just weeks before the creation of the State of Israel, when members of the Urguon and Stern Gang Zionist militias attacked the village of Dryasin and they killed at least one
hundred and seven Palestinians. Zionist militias tore through Palestinian villages, massacring villagers and expelling those who remained alive, to clear the way for the creation of the state of Israel, and this was one of the many massacres that happened during the Nekba, where again an estimated fifteen thousand Palestinians were killed and some seven hundred and fifty thousand fled their homes as refugees. Ignited a very terrifying domino effect.
This year, the UN will host its first ever high level event to commemorate this forced displacement that resulted in the establishment of the state of Israel in May and nineteen forty eight. So this is the first time ever that the U one has recognized that the Nekbu even happened, or like is it happened enough to mention it and commemorate it. But Palestinians have never ceased to commemorate the loss of each village that was once part of their homeland.
Among them was Darya Sine, and it was a village perched on a hill west of Jerusalem. And this massacre has become emblematic of the suffering that Israel would inflict on the Palestinians. Many of the people slaughtered, from those who were tied to trees and burned to death to those lined up against a wall and shot by submachine guns.
Many of these people were women, children, and the elderly, and Fudha does a really good job of showing this lack of discrimination of life in general in that movie that I mentioned earlier. As the new of these atrocities spread, thousands fled their villages in fear so again. On April ninth and nineteen forty eight, the Israeli militia struck theiry,
A scene where about seven hundred Palestinians lived. According to the Israeli narrative, operation Nashon and Ahhson apologies if I mispronounce that, but this operation aimed to break through the blockaded road to Jerusalem, and the fighters encountered stiff resistance from the villagers that forced them to advance slowly from house to house. It's kind of silly and strange how the same excuse is being used a century later to justify acts of terror. They're saying that villagers resisted them
and that's why they butchered them. It's yeah, it's pathetic. It's stupid and pathetic.
And like, yeah, for having the I don't know, temerity to be like no, you can't take my home. Yeah, they carried out a collective punishment on Yeah.
And that's the Israeli narrative. That's what their history books say, is that this was the aim of this operation. They were simply encountering the stiff resistance and they had to go from house to house like that. It's just a fucked up narrative, but Palestinians and some Israeli historians say that the villagers had signed a non aggression agreement with the Haganah, which was the pre Israeli state Zionist army. They were nevertheless murdered in cold blood and buried in
mass graves. According to a nineteen forty eight report filed by the British delegation to the UN, the killing of quote some two hundred and fifty Arabs men, women and children took place in circumstances of great savagery. Women and children were stripped, lined up, photographed, and then slaughtered by automatic firing. Those who were taken prisoners were treated with degrading brutality. This is from a nineteen forty eight report filed by the British delegation.
Like it's in the record, wouldn't they both like the stern going and the the whatever the military was called the beginning was in It's like I said, l I think were like they hadn't really done any military operations before, right that they'd just been they just like bomb like they did car bombs and shit to this, like the British had already like like that. They were like they were killing British people and I guess Arab people in Palestine before this, yes.
Yeah, I mean the escalation in violence was like pretty severe, right, but I think they would have gone there eventually, you know, they's kind of hit forward.
I think they'd already like established an intention or like a willingness to kill just about anyone who got in their way, right, and they wanted to show that they were like unlike the like I guess the labor aligned Zionist movement, that they were like more hardcore than that, and they exactly like that's where they made a spectacle of violence like.
This, they're establishing their their power and dominant. Israeli historian Benny Morris said that the militia's quote ransacked unscrupulously, stole money and jewels from the survivors, and burned the bodies. Even dismemberment and rape occurred. I mean, there's nothing to say to that. The number of dead is disputed, but it ranges from one hundred to two hundred and fifty. A representative of the Red Cross who entered Darya scene
on April eleventh. Two days later, they reported seeing the bodies of some one hundred and fifty people heaped haphazardly in a cave, while around fifty were amassed in a separate location. Prominent Jewish intellectual Martin Buber wrote at the time that such events had been quote unquote infamous. In Darya scene, hundreds of innocent men, women and children were massacred. He said, let the village remain uninhabited for the time being.
Let its desolation be a terrible and tragic symbol of war and a warning to our people that no practical military needs may ever justify such acts of murder. He also noted that Darya scene had a profound demographic and political effect, and he's referring to the fact that the news of his massacre spread and it prompted hundreds of Palestinians to flee their homes. Four nearby villages were next Ailunia, Cyrus,
bit Saruk and Bidu. Darya scene was no mistake, according to Israeli historian Ilan Pape Iline Pape has been called a Israeli quote unquote revisionist historian because he tells the truth, the actual truth of what happened in their history.
Yeah, the concept of revision's history is nonsense, like it suggests that there is a settled history at some point, which does not right, Like we're always looking at sources again, but was looking for new sources, different perspectives. It's not like there is like this monolith of history and then some meddling buss had comes and chops it down. It's fundamentally like misunderstanding how history is done. Yess why you shouldn't pay attention to Malcolm Gladwell for that and many
other reasons. But yeah, it's a ridiculous ideas. He's not like it's not like everyone was like, oh yeah, this wasn't a bad thing, and then he came along and like injected some kind of political animist in his history. He came along and looked at maybe news sources, maybe the same sources of people how I don't know. And it was like, now, you guys, have you got this wrong? You called this wrong. But that's what historians do. Like you can't fucking write your PhD without disagreeing with someone
and doing some new history. Like that's what takes you from a master's to a doctorate. And like you're supposed to do three articles in a book to get tenure. Like your articles can't just be like, yeah, we pretty much called this one right the first time. You know, like the process of doing history is to revise and hope to better understand things from different perspectives.
Totally. I like that that's the point of history is to revise, because you're right, And I just think it's it's so discrediting of his work to call him a visionist historian. Yeah, it's condescending, you know. And as someone that interviewed him called him this.
Yeah, I mean hopefully he gave them both barrels because it's kind of a ridiculous. Yay, it shows that they fundamentally unqualified to be discussing the topic.
I guess, Yeah, I want to talk about what he said, but I realized that I didn't take the last break, and I want to right now, and that is my choice.
So OAT, proud of you, thank you.
And we're back. We were talking about Elan Pape, a revisionis quote unquote historian, but not really. You know, he was called that because he was talking about Israel the way it was it should be talked about with actual historical facts. In one of his writings, Pape wrote depopulating Palestine was not a consequential war event, but a carefully planned strategy otherwise known as Plan Dalette, which was authorized by the Israeli leader Ben Gurion in March of nineteen
forty eight. Operation Nashan was in fact the first step in the plan, and as I said, the massacre unleashed a cycle of violence and counter violence that has been the pattern ever since this happened. Jewish forces have regarded any Palestinian village as an enemy state or a military base, and this has paved the way for this blurred distinction between massacring civilians and killing combatants. According to the historian, So what does all of this say about Israel's vision today?
This is why I want to talk about this is because this started this whole cycle of violence that we still see perpetuated today. And it's why Palestinians refuse to forget it and forget what happened, and they'll always talk about Palestine because they don't want to be erased from history books. Dariasne has become a powerful symbol of Palaestinian dispossession as well as a historical fact Israel must confront
when retelling its national narrative. According to Pepe given that terrorism is a mode of behavior that Israeli's attribute solely to the Palestinian resistance movement, it could not be a part of any analysis or description of chapters in Israel's past. One way out of this conundrum, he says, was to accredit a particular political group, preferably an extremist one with the same attributes of the enemy, thus exonerating mainstream national behavior.
Israeli historians as well as Israeli society, they've only been able to admit to the massacre and Daria scene by attributing it to the right wing group Irgun, but have covered up or denied the other massacres, notably the one in Tantura in nineteen forty eight. This was carried out by the Huganah, the main Jewish militia from which the
current day Israeli military has evolved from. And despite this shift of blame, leading human rights organizations like Human Rights Watch and the State International have labeled Israel itself in a parked tyde state.
I've just seen the worst ever op ed in the Jerusalem Post about now what tell me it's about this, But it's about like the knuckbar, like it contains like this kind of narrative that like, oh well, the knuckbo was coined by by like historians to like explain the failure of the Palestinians to defend themselves, which is like a what does that fucking matter? And be like what
are you saying? Like what that contains within it the nonation that they would have to defend themselves from someone who was that how And then like like going back and forth on the number of people killed, like which you know, the low estimates are as low as like one hundred and seven, highest wins in the two hundred and fifties based on claims that the militias themselves made right. So like again, what it is it cool to kill like one hundred people but two hundred and fifty people?
Was like, you know, we should step in there, and just like I was just checking the author's affiliation because that's always fun, and he's a research for the Menachen Beguine Heritage Center. I may have pronounced that incorrectly, but when the organization you work for is memorializing heritage of one of the dudes who led the massacre, you might want to like to step aside from I mean or not right, but just shut up, just dive the fuck in. But like you are flying your flag as a fairly part.
It's like I said, right, all historians are biased. But yes, when like you know, if if I work at the Colonel Custer Heritage Center, like please take my account of the United States like violent assault on the Lakota people with a pinch of salt, because like I'm coming at
this from a certain perspective. And yeah, here we are at twenty twenty three, still still doing the doing the thing where we were, rather than just like taking the l and just being like, oh, like it's bad actually to rape and mutilate and murder people trying to equivocate.
It's funny you mentioned articles though, because I just saw one and when I was researching for Alexai yesterday of this Israeli cop that admitted that the videos he saw was a bad. Look like that's what he said.
It was just like good cop. Yeah, And the course of solution site is to not allow people to take videos of you brutal. Yeah, yeah, that's the reituation. Yeah yeah. Tim Apple known anti cop anarchist.
So Human Rights Watch and Anasty International have labeled it was reel as an apartheid state, and Human Rights Watch said in twenty twenty one, we reached this determination based on our documentation of an overarching government policy to maintain the domination by Jewish Israeli's over Palestinians. As recognition grows that these crimes are being committed, the failure to recognize that reality requires burying your head deeper and deeper into
the sand. Today, apartheid is not a hypothetical or future scenario, and I apartheid is a very light word to use, but I did want to just mention that an organization said that, not just like I don't know, there's just it's officially on paper that Israel sucks, Like why are we still defending it? I'm just like, go rewatch the Bernie Sanders video from yesterday, like or audio, because there's no reason we should be funneling any kind of support into that country.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it did. It's mad. We still made a loan of money selling weapons to Israel, but it used against like and a. Robert and I pursued a public records request for going on two years for like these batteries that launch hundreds and hundreds of smoke grenades and flash bangs that a US company is selling to Israel, right, yeah, like it's great they can find them into a mosque, I mean, not surprising, No, it's
just annoying. Annoying the wrong word, but like, yeah, there are people who make a lot of money every time things get more violent there, right, and people who are very invested in that. Yeah, and yeah that's Gooulich as fuck it is.
And that's actually all I have. That's a good, good place to end, if any But I hope you learned something if you didn't know something in this episode, and I hope you go watch Futterha or God's Fights for Freedom. I don't think this is history that should ever be understated or forgotten, so I'm always more than happy to talk about it, even if it's depressing. So thank you for joining me today, James.
That's okay, it's been very uplifting. I don't be a right, it's important, it's very important. Hopefully one day we'll have the PK GASA episode. Yes, that would be great. I guess if you're in the UK and have old copies of Men's Health, you can read about young people doing parkering Gaza. It's pretty heavy. I will have another story about that soon. But yeah, where should people? I think a good thing. Maybe if we could end on like, uh, where is a good place to find news about Palestine?
I really like El Jazeera, especially their opinion pieces are pretty good because a lot of the times they're written by people that are really passionate about what they're writing. Yeah, I think following actual Palestinians on social media is always a good call. Like a Middle Kurd is one of the most prominent voices recently that has been uplifted, and I would follow his social media as his sister has one as well. His family's house was basically we had
the threat of being demolished last year. His house was in Schech if you remembered any of that stuff from last year with the violence going on there. I also really like Subitaha. He's on Instagram mostly and he has a podcast now. I would highly recommend following his stuff. He is so informed and so uh just easy to
understand too, So I would watch that. And yeah, Mohammed Lakurt actually was on some news program like like Face the Nation or no, maybe not that, but he was on recently like basically uh, handing the asses of the people that were talking to him about Israel and Palestine? Is that the right way to say that?
I don't know.
He was just stating he was he was not willing to be talked over and whatever.
Yeah, which I like, Yeah, he shouldn't be. My friend Hussam is a photographer in Palestine. Most of those Auja Zerra pieces you'll see are his photographs. Actually, well Sam Salem Guh he's photograph we've worked together before. But yeah, if you if you're a person who'd like to see pictures, his pictures are very good.
Yeah, that's a good point too. Also, there are a lot of accounts that are solely about Palestine, and a lot of these Palestine activists follow them and share them, so you will find more organizations by following them. There is I for Palestine. There's I think it's like land Palestine, Like I think, there's a lot of really trusted accounts
on the Internet. You have to find the ones that are trusted, and a lot of times it's stuff from the ground and that's the stuff that needs to be seen and shared because if there's going to be any upside to fucking internet and social media, it has to be to spread stuff like this around and make sure people know about it.
I don't know. Yeah, I think it gives us a way to like get underneath that like hegemonic narrative and see what happens to real people every day. Yeah.
So yeah, that's that's all. Okay, whatever, that's the episode. Bye.
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