Als media.
Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast.
It's me James today and I am very lucky to be joined by Azad, who is fighting in Mianma Chinland specifically with the AIF. Welcome to the show, Zad, thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me on of course. Yeah.
This has been a project that, like I've been following from Afar for some time, maybe several months now I think. But for listeners who have not been following, can you explain very briefly the role of the AIF in the struggle in Miamma.
Yeah, sure, getting right into it.
Yeah, first I'd like to give a little bit of a spiel about like the context of the AIF maybe for people who aren't so familiar. Yeah, in Burma already, for decades there have been some kind of established president of we can say, foreign volunteers of some kind or you know, ex military personnel or you know somebody who is somehow drawn to the conflict. There has already been the present cident for some decades of people coming in a very limited capacity and helping with this group or
that group. But it mostly has been participation of two big characteristics. The first characteristic is that of course, it's been an individual basis. Like whoever individual had this idea, they organized it themselves, they handled it themselves, with the exception of like the freewom arrangers, but I wouldn't classify them as like, you know, foreign fighters or anything.
They do very very.
Good work, but yeah, slightly different role.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The people who did this kind of stuff were mostly coming as individuals, you know, kind of on their own prerogative. And secondly, they were overwhelmingly we can say, non political or you know, ex military guys from Western nations or you know, from neighboring countries who were somehow drawn to the conflict and wanted to use their skills in that
kind of light. The AIF, on the other hand, is absolutely by no means like the foreign Fighter Organization in mean Moore or it's not like the foreign battalion or that's also not with the and the mission is it specifically came about after twenty twenty three twenty twenty four, there were slowly more internationals in the country.
Internationalists we can say, yeah, who.
Were here on a much more yeah, albeit at the beginning, individual it was the same where people were organizing their own ways, organizing their own routes and connections, but with a much more different perspective of this kind of more intentional anti fascist internationalist perspective, yeah, which led over into
the name. So kind of as as a result of discussions between me and some other people who were here and also some other people outside the country, the idea to set up a formation or an organization like this was floated, and of course after talking with local partners and local comrades who anyway were involved with on the ground, there was a lot of enthusiasm on both sides, both from people outside the country, both from people inside the country.
So kind of within that context, the idea to take a step forward in a more organized, explicit the consistent Yeah, to use a polite word, of consistent perspective for internationalism and minmoir, that was kind of the goal.
Yeah, And if people aren't familiar, it's the Anti Fascist Internationalist Front, right. The AIF has a really cool logo with the the peacock tail and the three arrows and the like the white star in a red background that I thought that was I really appreciate your logo. Yeah, so yeah, I think people will like when they talk about the conflict in Memma. They will be like, oh, why are they? Why is there not more internationalism and
why is there not more international volunteers. Something that you and I have spoken about before is that, like, this has always been an international conflict, right, and it's always been an anti fascist conflict as well. Do you want to explain that to people who because I think sometimes it's easy for people to fall into these orientalists or somewhat colonialist constructions of the conflict there, and I think you and I both agree that those are not the lens through which we should view it.
Yeah.
I mean, of course, the history of let's just use a big term, the history of conflict in Burma is of course very deep and very complex and has a thousand different ethnic and political you know, branches that.
You can go down.
Yeah, But if we're really focusing in on this post coup situation, which even though it has its roots and its context in of course the pre coup, with you know, the existing Ethink resistance organizations and the democracy movement, if we're really looking at the conflict post twenty twenty one coup, fundamentally, it is not any one nations struggle. It is not anyone's people's struggle. It is not even like a national struggle of Burma. We can say it is fundamentally a
fight against fascism. It is an anti fascist people's revolution. Where after, of course, the coup and after these initial stages of protest and uprising, the people were faced by a choice of do we accept dictatorship, do we go back and do we live like normal? Do we accept fascism, do we live under fascism? Or do we prepare to
sacrifice everything to fight against fascism? And that was the fundamental calculation in that So in so far as it's to fight against fascism, that makes it an international struggle in itself, I mean, without even you know, going on too much about how anyways, the so called nation of Burma is dozens and dozens and dozens of different ethnicities and religions and cultures, which I mean, if you aren't thinking in the traditional nation state sense of internationalism and
more thinking in the kind of brotherhood of cultures and traditions, then yeah, of course, without the flashy you know, foreigners coming, it's already an internationalist struggle against fascism. But I think, you know, on a more intentional level, the dictatorship represents fundamentally the same fascism that exists all over the world, fundamentally state oppression. So yeah, in that regard, it's very much an international struggle.
Yeah, And something we've spoken about before is like the link. So the inspiration I guess that comes from the internationalist struggle in North and East Syria and Java, and how that's very much been like a source of inspiration for young people in MR. I've spoken to tons of them even two years ago, especially young women there right look looking at the women's revolution in Rajava and seeing like that this was a possibility, that this was something like
on the horizon that they could strive for. Do you want to explain like your own perceptions of that inexperience of it.
Yeah, sure, Well, first, you know, not to overstate things. Well, of course Rojava is a big inspiration I think, not just for the people here in me and mar but truly like a beacon of hope in general.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, a little biased having spent time in Roservay as you also have. I think how can we say, I'll give a bit of context. In twenty twenty three, I think this message went out from the CANDF to the forces in Rosova and I was there at the time.
So was I really what? Yeah? Yeah, I was stared to say. We were there. We were both there at the same time. Everyone started hitting me up for book recommendations. It's like October, I didn't know that. Yeah, okay, right off Joctoba seventh, I think.
Okay.
Anyways, so yeah, when this came out, like some friends sent this to me and was like, hey, can you translate this? And I like, not only me when I saw it, but also all the friends in the leadership and you know, all of the comrades there were like very one surprised, but also very excited and very happy to kind of see a message like this. And I think also when the message was returned, you know, some of the friends from the leadership, you know, recorded this
video message and sent it back. It was very much like a very pleasant, happy surprise for everyone involved, and it really showed the degree to which fundamentally we are fighting the same struggles, even though you know, maybe you know materially we're not talking about like guns going from one place to the other. Fundamentally were comrades on the same very very very long frontline now I think what that looks like locally, especially, I'm happy that you mentioned,
like specifically the women's situation. You know, I myself sometimes when I'm giving training here, I like to show videos from certain parts of Kurdistan where they're very effective, we can say, And of course that naturally includes like the very very heavy participation of the women's guerrilla units as well as the men's guerrilla units, and specifically here and me andmar we see a very difficult situation in the revolution in regards to like the position of women, where
because of I mean, it's a very new revolution. Lots of these people are you know, a couple of years ago, they were just in we can say liberal society. They weren't in any kind of you know, maybe at best activist context. But it's not like these people had a strong revolutionary platform and then they said, okay, let's launch a revolution against the dictatorship. It was a natural evolution
from protest to resistance to revolution. No, So because of that, the same social structures that existed in liberal society were in a large part transplanted into resistance organizations, which means that yeah, of course, thousands and thousands of women from all over the country, have traveled to these camps, you know, have prepared and have ready themselves to fight against the dictatorship.
But in a lot of ways they're still facing off against, you know, the patriarchy that is inherent in all of our modern society. Yeah, so I think Rajaba into much as like I think anybody can take Rajava as an inspiration. If there is anybody who, more so than anybody else, can take as an inspiration, it is women and youth. As that is, of course, like the revolutionary focus of
the entire paradigm of the Rajava revolution. So I won't say that it's like, you know, like the leading inspiration for the people of me and mar or something, but definitely the people who have interacted with it or interfaced with it in some capacity, be it official or unofficial, of course, have gotten a lot of inspiration from that.
And us as internationalists, both me as well as some other people here, you know, having had that in person experience with their Java revolution, of course for us as eternal inspiration.
Yeah, and it's a really beautiful thing to see, like you said, just to see people like when we think about alliances in conflict, right, if we look at the extremely interactional way that the United States entered into those alliances. Right, it's willing to allow the people of forro Java to die for it in the battle against ISIS, or dash that it's not willing to stand by them when they're being bombed by Turkey. Right, something right, and you and I have both seen, but to see something that is
said begins with genuine solidarity and admiration. One thing I really liked was when the K and DF replied to the video that came from Java. They said that they still had a lot to learn, especially with regards to gender, and like it's so rare to see revolutionary movements submitting their faults, especially during the struggle, right during the moment
of revolution. And that's something that I've been so pressed with in Myanmar for a long time, is their willingness to like look out at the world and see things that they think are better and adopt them, or to
at least consider them. It's the thing in Jaba too, some of their one of the friends in Rajaba said that they were excited to learn more about Meamma, because they hadn't worked everything out, and that they thought that there might be some solutions that they could learn from there, And so it's really special to see that that solidarity that comes from a very genuine place and not just it's not just rhetorical. There are people such as yourself who have made the journey to fight on behalf of
the revolution in me Mma. But it's really a special thing. It's really a wonderful thing to see, especially like with the world seemingly getting more and more isolated and more and more nationalists as supposed to internationalists, Like, it's a really beautiful time for it to happen too.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And I think I mean not to make the podcast, you know, a democratic and federalism ideologyism or something, but yeah, I think insofar as the revolution in Rajava considers itself a force on the side of democratic modernity, I think it's important to understand that they really mean it, Like they really do see the conflicts that we're facing today against the capitalist system, against capitalist modernity.
They really do.
See it in this all encompassing light that even though something is happening all the way over here in me and more and that maybe you could only tangentially connect to what's happening over there, they really do believe it when they say we are comrades in this same struggle. And that's why the solidarity is so beautiful to see, because it's that real solidarity. It's not just like, you know, pandering to some internationalist kind of sentiment.
Yeah.
No, it's very real and it has its very genuine basis in sharing more than common interests. I will say, so, for people who are not as familiar with the struggle where you are, which is in chin Land, would you explain a little bit of I mean, obviously we can, and we will at some point explain a little bit more of the history of chin Lan. I think it's very important and it sometimes gets marginalized from even narrative
of the revolution. But can you explain like the groups and the struggle as it has been since twenty twenty one? In many ways, Chinland is where the revolution, the arm revolution began, right, So can you explain how we get to a place today where in recent weeks we've seen massive victories in Chinland?
Yeah?
So, as you know, the political situation at least between the groups is somewhat complicated. So I'll try my best to like most fairly, but also somehow accurately described. Yeah, I'll start from the history. We can say, as you described in and around mindhat, at the time of these protests, this was kind of like the catalyst and one of the places that actual armed resistance to this dictatorship started.
And that wasn't armed resistance like with guns or something that was armed resistance like with the shotguns like double barrel shotguns from India, muzzle loading traditional hunting rifles and air guns and things like this. Yeah, and with that kind of weaponry, they were going and attacking police stations
and checkpoints. So it really was a sign for everyone like not only the bravery of the people that are willing to do something like that, but the willingness and the risk that these people are able to take and the seriousness of their opposition to the dictatorship that look, this isn't just a protest anymore. Even we have only sticks and stones, we will dismantle this dictatorship.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that was a very inspiring early period. And I think even before the involvement of some of the bigger ethnic armed organizations, there were already local CDFs, which stands for Chinland Defense Force, which is kind of just like PDF. It's a moniker that a lot of groups share. There were a lot of different PDFs and cdf popping up just in the days following the coup in Chinland. So yeah, like from the very beginning there was the
precedent in the history of revolution there. Now these towns that were the beginning of the revolution have now been seized. So mind DOT as of last month was taken by the Chin Brotherhood Alliance as well as you know CDF, min DOTT and alliance partners. So the progress has definitely been made. The current landscape looks a little bit like this. In Chin state, there's two big blocks.
We can say.
One block is the Chin Brotherhood and one block is the Chinland Council. At first there was only one block called the ICNCC, which sends for Interim Chin National Coordinating Council or committee. I always forget the last ceime, and that was like the political big umbrella organization. And there was the CJDC, which is the military big umbrella organization that sends for chin Land Joint Defense Council or Committee.
Again last see always in big us. So yeah, for a long time it was everyone including one of the you know, very old ethnic resistance organizations, the CNACNF, the Chin National Army, Chin National Front was kind of involved in this one big umbrella organization and everywhere there was resistance against the dictatorship and on some level cooperation both with Chin groups as well as with the enug In twenty twenty three, political events occurred and as we can
say politely, a disagreement in the political future of Chinland separated into two groups, with CNACNF withdrawing from the CJDC and forming their Chinlen Council, and the groups that kind of subscribed to that vision and subscribed to that path they joined the new Chinlen Council and all of the groups that remained in the CJDC in the ICNCC continued to hold on to the ICNCC as a kind of platform and umbrella organization for the people in Chin State
that didn't want subscribed to this new path. And then Chin Brotherhood was formed as the new practical military alliance of those people who remained, we can say, and since then, in only one year, I mean, both sides have have had very incredible victories. No Chin Then Council has been able to in the north of Chin State liberate Chika and Tunzongtown, and then of course in the south of Chin State, Chinbler has been able to take Matupe and
Contellette and Mindat. So definitely victories all around. But yeah, I'll stop myself before I comment to much more on that. Yeah, but victories, it would have been unimaginable.
Three years. I mean, we're almost exactly three years from the beginning of the revolution. Four years guy, yeah, twenty twenty five, god, yeah, yeah, four years from the beginning
of the revolution. When, as you say, like those videos, that was when I first became aware of the post coup resistance, was seeing videos online of people with those traditional muzzle loading hunting rifles but taking on police checkpoints or attempted to organize the armed resistance and those little air guns with the made of the blue plumbing pipe
like they It was incredible. It's the bravery of the people and their commitment and their willingness to risk their lives and sometimes lose their lives because like as one revolutionary doctor told me a few years ago, he said, like, my grandparents died for democracy, and my parents' generation died for it, and we don't think another generation should have to die for it, so like we're all prepared to go down fighting for this, which I thought, you know,
was really impactful. And then he was right that their willingness to risk their lives and to be so brave is unparalleled. And the revolution wouldn't have got to where it's got to. But it's such a beautiful thing that it has. I wonder, like it's a crucial time for the revolution now, right, Like the revolution is as successful
as ever been, we're reaching the fifth year. Can you explain, like the role of the AIF within the broader revolution, because I think people get really confused by all the acronyms, and it can be easy to think that these groups and it's an alphabet stup right, I'm writing a book about this and Spain, and like I've spent most of the last week just trying to write the dictionary of
acronyms that goes in the back of the book. But like, can you explain if these aren't groups sort are necessarily sometimes they are opposed to each other, they have different visions for the future. But can you explain the role of the af within the broad anti hunter movement?
Sure, first I'll say I'm reading a book right now about like the history of the Communist Party of Burma, and that history goes from like, you know, the thirties all the way to the nineties, and every single page has at least ten different acronyms, and it's absolutely insane.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
About the AIF, the Anti Fascist Internationalist Front, which I'm hoping everyone just recognizes as AIF because it's kind of a mouthful. Our perspective so far has been that, especially as foreigners, especial as like foreign foreigners, you know, like Western foreigners. Yeah, we really want to avoid as much as possible the perception of we're coming here, you know, we've got military experience, or we've got this knowledge, or
we've got that knowledge, and now it's time. Now it's time for us to tell you what to do, or now it's time for us to train or something like that. Yeah, I would say our perspective is much more closer to the perspective of the you know, the international structures in ra Java. Our goal is recognizing that this enemy, the Essays dictatorship, the Essays junta, is fundamentally a fascist, anti
human enemy. That makes it also our struggle and so not in some kind of like presumptive way, or not in some kind of like imposing way, but in a very genuine and organic manner. We want to come here and implement ourselves into the revolution. Now, we have some friends who are coming who maybe have previous experience with this or with that, and in their capacity, of course they give training. Because the people here have the comrades,
have been overwhelmingly receved to training like this. You know that there's been no pride or no like, oh, we don't need the help.
Yeah.
Quite contrarily, everyone at all stages, even the nug is saying I'm not talking about us, I'm just talking about publicly, you know, to everyone is saying, whatever help we can get, we appreciate it.
Yeah.
But you know, we're not just bringing people who are you know, Rajava veterans or veterans of some conflict where they can come and give training. Fundamentally, it's an anti fascist conflict, which means even people without experience are able to come and not only participate in the revolution, but in a less transactory way, not to say like, oh I have something and I will give it to the revolution, And the most important way is to come and to
learn from the revolution exactly as you said. Even a revolution like Rojava, which has decades and decades of history and tradition and culture and ideology and is steeped in this Yeah, I would say, you know, one of the most powerful, prominent revolutions of our time. Yeah, is still able to say a revolution like this, of course we can learn from it. We need to learn from the struggles of our comrades there to learn from the developments
happening in this revolution. Our perspective in AIF is very much the same where yeah, okay, maybe we have some limited material things we can contribute, but ultimately it's about organically participating in this revolution which is against fascism, and in our own ways, to take the lessons of this revolution, to take the fundamental meaning of this revolution and be able to translate it for ourselves and for of course the future works.
Which are ahead of us. Shall we say, Yeah.
I remember when this much much younger talking to veteran of the International Group, an anarchist veteran, No, it's from the International Brigade, to correct myself, and I asked him to explain anti fascism to me, and he said that for him, like when someone devalues humanity like the hunter does in Francoist did in Spain, right, liked did in Syria, it debases his own humanity, and like anyone who attacks humanity in that way is at him and all humanity,
And therefore it's the responsibility of all humanity to defend humanity, to defend compassion in kindness.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think what you're doing in Myanmar is part of that desire to defend humanity against inhumanity, against whatever we want to call it. What are the struggles that the revolution faces? Like, I know you guys have recently been doing a fundraising campaign, for example, and the revolution is almost unique in its complete lack of solidarity from the states of the world. Right, there is not a state that is backing this revolution. It is entirely the
force of the people of meanbar. So can you explain some of the struggles within the revolution? Perhaps because of that?
Yeah, I mean, as much as some people you know, like to say CIA or something like this, of course, the reality is that, you know, I've heard the term crowdfunded revolution.
I think it's incredibly accurate.
Yeah, because no, in the af we recently did a fundraiser for vehicles and equipment and things like this. But that's on our scale. On the scale of these organizations, I mean, they are fundraising from the diaspora millions and millions of dollars to be able to wage this resistance. And of course even like local people who themselves maybe don't have a lot are giving everything they can or or anyway acting any way they can, or doing anything
they can to help the revolution. So we can say overwhelmingly it is a popular resistance, even I would go so far as to say it is fundamentally a people's resistance against the dictatorship. That of course represents itself in a lot of different organizations. But these organizations enjoy the like ninety five percent support of the people against the junta, you know. Yeah, so yeah, in that regard, the challenge, of course is always resources and always the strength of
the enemy. No, we're still going up against jet fighters, helicopters, mortars, artillery. Yeah, you know, they have a lot of AMMO, us not so much. So there's like lots of these practical problems, I think, how can we say, cynical kind of As you mentioned earlier, Western outlook has been to paint this struggle kind of in Oh, it's a tribal struggle. There's all these different groups, they're all fighting for their own area. What's going to happen after they win? Now, I disagree
with that assessment obviously. I think you know yourself as you're familiar with the conflict. I think it's much deeper than that. And even across these many different identities and cultures, there's very deep, very real coordination and cooperation where I don't think it's just like chaotic. But on the other hand, that is a you know, not to give the cynics credit.
That is a question which going forward will politically very much be on the agenta because I mean, now, as you're seeing, most of the country is no longer in the junta's control, and the parts that are in the junta's control are contested, and then you have the tiny sliver of land which they can say they somehow without any kind of you know, contestion control. So very soon the onus will be on revolutionary forces to answer that question, Okay,
how are we going to consolidate? How are we going to transfer these winds on the battlefield into something that is more permanent and more lasting. And I think you know already as you're seeing in Chinn State that I can speak of and that people are seeing and elsewhere that I can't speak of because I don't know. There are definitely frictions. You know, I'm not going to say it's perfect. Everyone is smiling, everyone is working together, and
there's frictions that will have to be worked through. But fundamentally, I think the trajectory as it currently is is positive for the resistance.
We can say, yeah, definitely.
I was talking to someone yesterday in another part of me Imma, and I was saying, you know, I'm going to come visit you, hopefully soon, and he was saying, like, oh, you'll have it. Like just to be in the liberated zone is so special. Talk to us about like liberated chin Land, right min Dat's just been liberated. Large areas have been under the control of semi control of addictive satorial regime that has been extremely oppressive to the Chin
people for decades. Like how are people receiving their liberty? How are they governing themselves or tempting to take care of one another in these liberated spaces?
Sure?
Well, I think the first thing I'll say is maybe to contrast to other parts of Meanwhile, we've been relatively lucky in Chinn State, and that even you know, for some years already the junta, due to the mountainous nature of Chin State, has anyway been reduced to the cities for years. Like all of their checkpoints, all of their like external places, the last of those were cleared in twenty twenty three, and most of them anyway in twenty
twenty two were gone, so by land mass. Even before these towns were seized, the junta controlled if you were to add up all of the area that they actually physically control in Chin State, maybe a couple square kilometers, you know, just the area of like their bases and something like that.
Ye.
So because of the nature of Chin State, they never had the of course they did these atrousts and massacres and things like this, but on the kind of like you know, fascist dictatorship level of oppression. Since after the revolution, they had not really had the opportunity to impose themselves too much. They were the ones kind of cowering in their corner. Yeah, but I think especially after these towns
are being seized. Now you know, take Ricodar, which is the border town on India, or take mind Otom or Tupi. These towns that have just been recently seized, these are
towns which people are wanting to live their lives. I mean, Chin State has always been autonomous, even in British rule, in colonial rule, it was just labeled as unadministered, you know, and there was a very rich democratic tradition or how can we say, maybe not democratic in the traditional sense, but tradition of self rule and autonomy in Chin State, and the removal of the junta from these areas is
allowing those relationships to much more naturally flourish. And I think the aspiration of a lot of people both abroad as well as internally displaced from Chin State is to return to those places where there's been fighting and to
continue their lives as normal. Which I think finally now that not just in Gen State, but all over the country, we're slowly seeing these alternative systems of you know, let's not call them like communist or revolutionary or anything, but fundamentally they are alternative to the state administration system.
Yeah. And I think that narrative that you pushed back on already, that like, and we've seen it from so many every think tank, every analyst ever every so called expert has said the Eros will only fight for their territory. When they've reached the limits of what they consider to be their like ethnic homeland, they will stop. And that
hasn't happened, right, It's not happened anywhere. But the fact that even if it did, right, or even if some of these Eros have visions for the future which is not as liberatory as maybe you and I would like the fact that there are parts of Bamma that are free now and that where people can live their lives as they wish will never change, and that will mean that those places are always there for people to go to.
And like, I'm sure lots of people you're fighting with and alongside have come to Chinland, right like, like not all of them will be would have spent their whole lives, yet they they'll have come there from. But my majority cities maybe is that correct?
Look like not to give any specifics, so I'll just make a very broad term to exaggerate the fact. You can say that I have met somebody from almost every single group in me a mark in Chinn State. Yeah, Now that's just to say that's not to like, you know, be shocking or something that's just to highlight the level of interconnectedness logistically, materially, militarily, you know, even if it's just someone sending someone to say.
Hi from somewhere. You know.
Yeah, it's not like, oh, everyone's in their corners fighting. I mean, I promise you there are soldiers here which are giving their lives for the towns in Chin State, which maybe they never even thought about Chinn State before this revolution.
You know, they're coming from opposite sides of the country. Yeah.
Absolutely, it's fundamentally a fight against the dictatorship. It's not the fight to liberate Inland or to liberate Kadeni or something like this.
Yeah. I remember speaking to mandal a PDF a while ago and they were saying to me, like they were really scared when they first left the cities because they've been told that like wild people lived in the mountains. Yeah at that now we're wild people, we like the
wild people like. But yeah, this this narrative, I mean, James C. Scott talks about this right in the Art of not being governed, this idea that these mountains were never really places that are amenable to state control, and that now there are places where people can go to
avoid it. But it's also important that this revolution extends beyond the mountains and into the cities, and that people are living there don't have to live under the bootheel of a dictatorial state, which is which is what's happening right.
Yeah, absolutely, people will.
Be listening to this, I'm sure and like thinking this is laudable, this is incredible, and a they'll be shocked that they haven't heard about this, maybe, especially if the newer listeners. And I do want to say that, like you can go back and listen to our other coverage on MEMA. There is a lot. But like in terms of conflicts, right, conflict is always messy and war is
never inherently a beautiful thing. Beautiful things can happen, it was, but we rarely see wars where there is so much good on one side and so much evil on the other. And why do you think that the especially the Western media has largely overlooked the conflict in Mema.
It's a good question.
Yeah, I will say, just on a very base level, without getting into any kind of like you know, pondering or something like that. I've spoken with a few journalists and you know, before anything, before we even talk about politics or something. There is just the material calculation that these outlets are making. From what I understand from what I have heard, people don't care. Now that's really unfortunate.
But like these like big networks, you know, CNN, whatever, Yeah, I have to make the calculation of the people they send and the risk to send them, and the actual exposure that these news articles will get. From what I understand conversations that I've had with some people that are you know, involved in these networks right now, there is not on like the executive board level. There's just not a lot of push to cover me in market and
that's you know, that's really unfortunate. And I think one really bad side effect of that is whenever there's a tragedy, the media is there. Yeah, you know, like whenever there's some massacre, or whenever there's some you know, intertribal conflict, or whenever there's something bad to report about, or maybe you know, on a good day, they're really big, like a win like in last year that we saw you know, yeah, okay, yeah, for these big things that Western media will be there.
But I think even from recording these very like click baity eye catching things, it seems like they're not getting the exposure that they want to get out of this content, which is putting them off of covering the you know, in our opinion, much more meaningful wall to wall content that exists, I mean every day in me and Mark. Yeah, it seems like this Western eye is only interested in
the suffering, we can say, which is really unfortunate. But you know, even if the media is not paying attention, we can say, for better or worse, the governments are paying attention absolutely, I mean almost like hawks.
You can say.
There are every single regional government as well as foreign governments of course, keeping a very close eye on the situation, circling looking at developments, I mean China especially no being being very.
Involved in the process.
Yeah so yeah, Well, unfortunately the kind of liberal media I is not so much you know, giving me and more of the coverage that it deserves. As a popular revolution, the powers at b are definitely watching its progression, we can say.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean it offers an alternative for the world that like it's distinct even from a java, like the building of a revolutionary movement, like you said, the crowdfunded revolution, the revolution that like.
Entirely.
I mean at points armed itself using gums, it downloaded off the internet. You know, it offers sometimes I think when I'm thinking about, you know, my background in studying anarchists in Spain, and like obviously I've looked a lot at the past, but it gives me a vision of the future, Like and it's only in covering the small parts of the revolution that make it truly a revolution
that we can see that. Like you have an Instagram and on there you're posting about training sometimes when you're doing the trainings and there are women who are coming to train, you know, with rifles to be I was gonna say, Marx, Marx people, I guess like the people.
Yeah, yeah, only US military guys are weird about calling things snipers.
Yeah there's snipers.
Yeah, okay, yeah, let's do that, Okay. In the moment that that they receive that training and become like efficient with their weapons, like a revolution happens for that woman. And it's only through like following those those little revolutions that happen every day that make up a big revolution
that we truly understand it. And I'm sure that's something that like you're seeing on a daily or weekly basis, right, like people's world's opening up and their horizons changing because of a revolution.
Well, listen absolutely now, of course, you know, as as leftists involved or interested in this revolution studying it, whether you're a socialist, whether you're anarchists, whether you're a communist, whether you're oppilist. You know, however you like to describe yourself whatever flavor you are, you know, without pontificating too much. I think fundamentally this revolution is a symbol of hope
that it can be done. No, Like, I'll give an example from the conversations that I've had with the comrades that have been involved in this revolution since it was just a protest movement in the streets. Ye, one thing that I've heard a lot is that at the beginning of the revolution, when it switched, you know, when the police were fine blows into the crowds, and when people made this decision that okay, now we have no choice but armed resistance, We have no choice but to fight
the dictatorship. When that calculus was made, When that decision was made, it was not made based on the kind of analysis of the situation that they could even win. Yeah, it was not even like, Okay, we're going to do this and we have this strategy of guerrilla war, and then we'll do this, this and this, and then we'll achieve the victory. The calculation that was made was a moral calculation. It was saying, we have the choice. We
can go back to our life. We can accept this suppression, we can give up this struggle for democracy that we've been waging in one form or another, or we can make the decision to fight even if we won't win. It's the moral imperative to resist dictatorship. And I think what this revolution is showing not just for the people who themselves were surprised at their capability and were themselves surprised at what they could accomplish when they actually stepped
up and fought and sacrificed for revolution. Fundamentally, it's a message to everyone. It says, Look, these people at the beginning were going at checkpoints with like double barrels and air rifles, and at the end now they are like threatening to overthrow what was previously assumed to be one of the most powerful militaries in Southeastern Asia. I mean, like everyone jokes on the top of Dow because they're obviously garbage now, but like at the time, that wasn't
That wasn't the analysis. You know, it would be the same as saying like, oh, you know, we're going to overthrow the USA or something like that. It was fundamentally people didn't even envision the victory, but on the moral principle to resist, they've resisted, and from that moral position they were able to materialize the victory that they had previously not even imagined.
So, you know, for me, that's what I take away.
There's no books, there's no ideological books here that you can study and understand the underpinnings of the revolution. You know, there's no classes that you can go to that the PDF teaches you about what their revolutionary paradigm is. Fundamentally, it's a fight of the people against oppression and against dictatorship.
And while of course there's some strengths and some weaknesses that we face in the revolution, ultimately, in the same way as Rajaba, in the same place as other places in the world, it's a beacon of hope for democratic people who envision themselves fighting on the side of freedom that actually, yeah, you can win.
Yeah, it's given me so much hope like at a time the last few years when we've all desperately needed something good to happen. Like something good is happening in it incredibly good through them. Yeah, Like it's breathtaking. Like I went in twenty twenty two during the first year of the revolution, and I was shopping around this story for months, right. I knew these guys who were doing the three D printing, and I went to every major outlet.
I was like, this is the story that's going to make people care, and no one bought it until eventually Cool Zone did and here I am. But like even twenty twenty one, twenty two, talking to those guys, I was like, they might all die. It's still been worth it for them, but they might all be gone in a year. Unfortunately familiar with that from my line of work, but like to see it succeed, it's so like incredible.
It's obviously war is terrible, and terrible things have happened in the war, but like it's such a beautiful thing to see people refuse to accept tyranny and just through the tenacity of their refusal to create liberated spaces and to now threaten to topple Like you say one of what had previously been a feared army in the region. Like it continues to amaze me every day, every every time I see people dancing in front of a captured military headquarters or I don't. It's just such a such
a remarkable revolution. Is that if people wish to be in solidarity, if they wish to follow the AIF, if they want to learn more about the af where can they do that at their places online? Or are there ways that they can support you aside from obviously like being part of the struggle, Like how can they help you?
Yeah?
Me personally, My information platform is mostly on Instagram, where I post updates about you know, either insights about what's going on or news updates or something like that. And that's Azad underscore AFA on Instagraram.
Spell out Azade for the non courtage speakers.
A Zad a z A d if you will yep Thanky underscore AFA on Instagram. The AIF also has an Instagram for like official posts, it's AIF me and more in general about the AIF, especially at this early stages.
Right now, we're involved in some frontlines in western Meanmar and so because of that, we don't really have a lot of information presence out right now, but in the coming weeks, in the coming months, definitely when things get published, when more things like that come out, they will come out from kind of the existing distribution circles.
That have been going around, like libcom.
There has been like statements going out as well as Instagram, perr things like that. Yeah, and recently we just completed a fundraiser. Our goal was ten thousand dollars for the vehicles and the equipment that we will needed to get started. Yeah, for listeners who don't know, maybe yeah, maybe they're not aware. This only started in October of last year, so we're still in the stages of consolidating and getting our equipment. We set the goal for ten thousand dollars and we
exceeded it. We raised over thirteen thousand dollars for that, So yeah, we're very happy to say that. But in the future, of course, there will always be more opportunities. As you know, revolution is very expensive, so yeah, on all fundraising platforms we have PayPal, cash app, and Venmo
and all of those are aif me and more. And yeah, in the future, hopefully we will have more news both about what's happening in me and more are both how we specifically are involved, as well as just very exciting footage we can say we hope to share soon.
Yeah, that'd be great to see, and I hope you'll come back and join us again, and maybe we can delve into a little bit more of the history of the revolution and the revolution in chin Land specifically, because I think these are things that we need to cover more and I'd love to give people a place to learn about them. Yeah, absolutely great, Thank you so much.
It could Happen Here is a production or cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website pool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.