The Hacker Who Stole the No Fly List

no flight list, which is yeah, just just first day things. Yeah, so Maya, how how are how are you? How are you doing? Being deluged with when Trilli an interview requests and um so yeah, it's not my first time experiencing like a big news cycle, but this is certainly the biggest one. Ye's I'm surprised that this is bigger than the one life Happy for with other stories. Yeah, but I feel like big coming a transferm meme at the same time as I have like a national security new

cycle going on probably helped of it. I'm I'm I'm very happy for weed cat like that, that that that cat did, like that, every every single other thing that has happened to weed cat is like done that thing dirty,

but I'm happy for Yeah. We cat is not just like a hacking icon and I'm so here for it, like like like just like like fifteen minutes before we got un called, there's now a like Bengal meme from the SCP Foundation on Oh my god, they commissioned an artist to make a thing like it has just turned into a thing now like that that's the way. It's goods. It's not even it's not even like the whole hacking

story anymore. It's just the fact that I tingled into a meme like how how Yeah, and especially that Bengal turned into a meme because that started as a like discord in joke like that that's all it was. And now it's the name of this well, okay, so we should explain for it for people. For people who don't know what this cat is. This is the Pokemon spriggary sprigarado. How do you I don't know how to properly pronounced It's it's Italian. I I'm under no obligation to pronounce

an Italian sounding thing correctly. It's fine. Yeah, it's the wheat cat, like wheat cat and Bingle are now the only two acceptable names for this. Yeah. But in in in in the blog where you went through and talked about how you got the no filist by owning this thing, you posted a picture of of of this. Yeah. I did actually like take that picture while I was like hacking this stuff and like talking in some like small friends discord about it, and I just posted that together

with like the phrase this aviation should get serious. That's why that's also in the blog. I expected that to become the meme that blows up that this aviation ship gets serious, because that's just so stupid. Yeah, but I guess Bengle it is. And that's funny because yeah, it was just an in choke nonsense word and now the entire world knows about it and it's like a transferm thing. It rules. Yeah, So okay, I guess we should talk about what actually you did. So I I am not

a very technical person. I'm out here defined like defying transco stereotypes by sucking acid coding. Um, so, my my understanding of what happened is you were browsing a list of servers that are coming to the Internet that you can use through sort of like various search engines that do this, and you stop. You stumbled upon the server that belongs to commute Air, and then they just like I had a bunch of hard coded privileges there, and like us, it's it's still it's still funny to me.

How Like I realized what it was because I saw like the word eight cars and stuff, and I was like, wait, that that's reminds me of like Mentor Pilot YouTube videos, because of course I'm an autistic transfer and binge watch

Mentor Pilot while eating dinner. Um So, so that is the only reason I clocked it as like an aviation thing, and that's something I should dig into deeper, because like you can imagine, like while I'm going through these search results, I'm looking at like hundreds of servers in a day, and most of the stuff I decided this boring or it was too easy to hack, so I'm not going further because I have a d H D um So, yeah, and then this cause I was like, wait, that's an

aviation word. I've heard that before. Um So I take a little deeper and there were just passwords there, and and then like two minutes after I found that server, I was looking at like a car's messages, as in like messaging between ground stations and airplanes, and that was just like, yeah, this is a story, and started tweeting about it, looking for journalists to work with because with stories like this, I like to work with journals from the very start because I want to make sure it

doesn't get wiped under the rock when I reported to a company. So I make sure that when I do reach out and get things fixed, I reach out via journalists so that the company's not yet this is being reported on so they can't be like, yeah, we will fix it under the condition that you never tell anyone about our bad security, because like the whole point of what I'm doing is exposing like the security issues but also exposing yeah, with a political background at the end

of the day. Yeah, And I guess like another thing I don't I don't know how many people sort of are aware of this, but like another thing that has happened with people who are trying to go to companies and been like, hey, here's the security thing is like the company tries to like go after them criminally, like immediately,

which sucks ass and is the worst. Yeah. So so so from that stand but it doesn't even matter if I like do it like this are actually reported to them, But this way I get to talk about the publicly and like that's important, not because same on cloud, like I don't mind the cloud, but like yeah, yeah, and so okay, so uh, there's there's been a lot of focus on the fact that you found the no fly

list on there, which is very funny. But okay, why like okay, one thing I'm trying to figure out, why was there Why were there just messages from like ground cruise to airplanes just like sitting around on this random server that's just like the exploded to the internet, right, so the messages weren't directly on that server, but like it's the server where they like for testing purposes, like I don't know how much I can understand really, but

where they like test the software automatically and and so there's all. And because of how they configured the server, I could just have access to all the source code, which included lots of passwords for example, for like the server that then had the car's message saw it okay, but yeah, or access credentials for APIs that would have followed me to update the crew and or which like if you think about that's almost the bigger story that like at least theoretically could have been able to change

crew cruise because like that's the real terrorism risk. Yeah. Like if I'm just like if I'm just allowed to spell it out like that, like that that's the dream of any Yeah. Yeah, like I mean you you know, like I'm one of the things you were talking about when when you're writing about this was that like journalists thought that you were the one who had like caused all of the flight delays. It was like, no, that

was just their computer breaking. No, but yeah, like that was just funny because I didn't even know the thing with with the f a A happened, but I was like tweeting about, oh, I have a big aviation story. Any journalists interested. It's like a security breach, and people were like, wait, what did you do to the f a A. And it was like what f a A? So that happened, Like I am still not up to date in US anymore. Yeah, I mean, so for people who don't know what that story is. So basically, the

Federal Aviation Administration had a computer problem. It was very the very very short version day the computer problem and this grounded like a ship ton of flights because the huge like computer bottlenecks where if it was we saw this over like like like last month when there was that when all of those flights got down by Southwestern

because the computer system just went down. It's the same thing except us y. Yeah, but it's it's just funny because yeah, I first found this server like exactly the day after, like that was literally a day after the f a A incident, So people are rightly assuming that that was me, which obviously wasn't, but like it would

have been cool. Yeah, but it's also like it is very disturbed to be like this kind of stuff is just sitting there and like someone yeah could just like theoretically going and screw with all of this stuff, which is like and then also the fact that like there was just all of like the personal information of all of the pilots on. They're like, what the hell like

that is yeah that yeah, it's terrifying. Yeah, it's it is crazy how much stuff is just out there, and like that's part of what I try to show with my work. It's just yeah, there's so much stuff out there and it's just waiting to be found and I both mean that in terms of like, yeah, you can find ship if you try to, but also in the sense of things are not secure, like yeah, like all the systems are are like entire life depend on nowadays

not none of those systems are really secure. They're entirely dependent on like one system administrator who doesn't get paid enough. Our entire like computer systems depend on like a bunch of furies being motivated enough to do their work. So basically, like the moral of the story is pay furies well.

And yeah, yeah, and this this is probably to look at everything that I was thinking about when I was looking at this, which is like, you know, okay, so like when when when I was like a teenager like one on one of the things that I think I was the most wrong about that I believed was like I actually genuinely believed that like automating cars was a good idea because humans are really really bad at driving.

And then and then and then I had to learn to program, and I had to like see scientists code, and I had to I I I opened a program and there's a section of it that no one knows how it works. And I look, I look at the notes and the notes say, I don't I didn't write this. I don't know how it works. This is produced, This is produced at four am on like like seven milligrams

of caffeine. And that's like, yeah, on at least caffeine if yeah, well these are these were astronomers, So I I think it was actually just a lot of caffeine and not fines. But yeah, like you know, and then I had the realization the only single thing that we as humans are worse at than driving is coding exactly, yeah,

we are, we are even works at that. And then the other thing we're also very bad at is labeling data, which is like the whole thing machine learning is dependent, like because like the entire intelligence of like an automative car, like a self driving car, is entirely dependent on how intelligent the like underpaid workers and Kenya are getting paid like two bucks an hour to label things as car, human, and child and then make moral decisions of whether or

not those should get run over. Um, like yeah, like this is you know what what of One of my sort of political things that I'm coming to is I I think the only person people who should be allowed to do machine learning are astronomers and no one else should be allowed to do it, and even they know

because they have to. They like they have a legitimate reason, which is that like they actually a they're doing a bunch of big dates, like most of astronomy is just big data analysis, and then be like the analysis itself doesn't really hurt anyone. Uh, you you can argue about the telescopes, but like you're not, You're not, Like, yeah, just like anything that involves humans probably yeah, involves AI in anyone. Yeah, that's terrible idea, but yeah, I guess,

I guess. Okay, So circling back around to the point I was going to make and then forgot distracted talking about AI because such as the world, Um yeah, so you know, it's really remarkable to me, like how little technical skill you need to just like absolutely own enormous

corporations and governments and you know. But but the other thing that that's that struck me about this, that I've been thinking about for a while is that like, Okay, on the one hand, you have how easy hacking is, like like this server stuff is like easier than the stuff that I remember back in the day, which is a lot of like people like you someone somewhere long ago in a galaxy far far away, wrote like a script and then you just copy and paste it into

like every single text box on a web page, and like that's I think, like that's probably maybe like more hackery quote unquote than just like looking through a list of servers. But like even that is like the level of technical sophistication is so low or or you know, you don't need technically it's just need to be stupid

enough to pull it up. Like yeah, but but you know, but it's the thing that I realized about this and I was thinking about this was like, on the one hand, the level technical sophistication to you for this is extreme below.

On the other hand, one of the sort of like like one of one of the sort of trends of the way capitalism has been distributing digital technology, which is sort of by apping it like by by sorry, which has been packing it into apps in these closed guarding ecosystems and like putting us in between you and like what like you and what's actually happening in your computer has been you know, it's it's been designing in a way to make a quote unquote consumer friendly, but also

it's been designed in a way such that like successive generations of computer users just have less and less knowledge

of how their devices technology actually work. Yeah, that's like like there's that whole thing of like about how how like younger kids don't understand the cala the fault is anymore because like that's completely abstracted away on like smartphones, chrome book in particular, which I genuinely think we need to ban chromebooks in schools, like just just like for for for the sake of human big of a thing that isn't Yeah, it's awful, Like, oh god, they're the worst. Yeah,

I don't know, like at the end of today. That's what I wanted to say earlier about like how easy it is to hack all the paper operations and stuff. And it's just like the answer as to why it's just capitalism. It's it's cheaper not to give a ship

about cybersecurity. It's cheaper to just pay when you get hacked than to like secure your ship upfront, because like the only people that will really suffer is like your customers and your employees, and they can forget your your shareholders, they're gonna be just fine, you know, and you you look at the way the regulatory structure works is like, okay, so what what what happens if you get in trouble something like this, Well the government takes a cut. That's it. Yeah, yeah,

that's that's it. Like it's literally it's it's literally like you can budget getting there. There's cyber insurance now you can get insured against getting hacked. Like like it's it's

just capitalism out of work. And I feel like one of the things that one of the things that journalists have sort of I don't know, and I understand why they focus on it, but I feel like there's a lot of focus in in sort of like in tech journalism and journalism on sort of hacking stuff in like the really big sophisticated like stut Nicks or what was the what was the more recent one I can remember the name of people like yeah, like there were the

really sort of convoluted trawling program and things that like you know, take Nayan state level of resources and it's like, well, yeah, you know this this was always the thing with like the with like the n s A to where it's like, well okay, so the the the the the the the On the on the one hand, the n s A does have enough money to like spend like fifty million dollars factoring one numbers like a break a bunch of encryption. On the other hand, like they can just force US

companies definitely and also give them access. And also like I don't know they can they can get most of information because like some server admin in like a farm in like the middle of world, Nebraska, like misconfigured a file, like misconfigured the server. So like, you know, I don't know.

That's That's what I find funny about the things I find, because I like almost exclusively go for like the low hanging fruit, because like why would I invest more effort when I can get the really big scoops like this. And also sometimes sometimes I do kind of think about how, hey, you know, like maybe I just cut off access to the CIA. Maybe this was like how the CIA got

this access. Maybe maybe the n s A was here obviously most likely not in most cases, but it's just a funny little thought of like who did I just kind of access by reporting this? I will say this, like I can't imagine that there isn't someone at the n s A, and there isn't someone at the Cia, whose job it is is to do exactly the same thing you do, and like scrolling server list every day,

like absolutely like like like that. That's why by now I you sue my like for the surgeon since the show don which is like the famous U S one, which is why I still always say I found it on show them, even though by now I use because showdown has like half of like all U S I P centered and they have an artificial delay between finding the servers and showing them to you and have really

bad search. And I'm pretty sure it's just because at one point the US government got upset because they kept getting yeah uh and so yeah, but like the Chinese are very willing to give me all the scieties ever that that they too centsor a lot of Chinese I P s though, but I think a lot of that was so I was I was trying to figure out why that name was relation. But then I had this.

I remembered that there was a story where some researcher did like almost the exact same thing you did to a Chinese security company and found out that they were doing I guess what, exactly the same ship the US government was doing, which was using using a bunch of valance cameras to spy on Muslims, and it was like, well, this is great. Yeah, it's it's always like like it's always appointing and doing the same thing, like yeah, okay, so we unfortunately going to have to take an ad break.

I yeah, but then once we returned from capitalism, we will go back to opposing capitalism. Welcome to three, all right, and we're back. Yeah. So speaking of any capitalism, that was another thing I wanted to sort of talk about, which is said, Okay, so like long long, long ago, in a galaxy far far away, little little little baby, fifteen year old Mia was radicalized, like back back, back back when I was overthrowing trying to overthrow my first government.

It was um a lot a lot of it was being in the same sphere as a lot of sort of anxiout hackers that were in the sort of like loose anonymous sphere. But you know, by by like sixteen, like that stuff was kind of falling apart, like partially because of in fighting, partially because of fat infiltration, partially because you like everyone got arrested. Yeah, yeah, point all

the big players have been arrested, like three years prior. Yeah, and and you know, and the other thing that was going on too, I think was like Anonymous, like it's politics were always really incoherent, like you you had, I don't know, you're just like everyone. Like the thing I remember was there was a big split between like basically the fascist and the anarchists between like like over Trump specifically. Like yeah, I think the thing with Anonymous is just

like the way it started. It started. It's just like a group of tropics before Janet it was like, well, okay, the pic just say, like I mean, it makes sense that Anonymous is the way it is and has been the way it has been. I think it's still like important that it exists and that it motivates people. Uh, Like I have been involved with Anonymous before. There's the one thing I can talk about with like Operation Mean Mar where we did like support things. Um that was

shortly before my indictment. But yeah, it's it's interesting like Anonymous brings people together to do operations and that's what they do, and they can do pr for stuff. Uh yeah, I don't want to like them. Yeah no, but I think, like I think, especially especially like in life, like when I was got involved with Chilse' thirteen. It was like like it was it was a lot different, like it was you know, like a thing. Yeah, it was. It was.

It was like a thing. And also it wasn't just like like it wasn't just that it was sort of like Okay, we're like we're like trolling, trolling a government by like taking down their web pages or whatever, like they were actually sort of there was like there was real coordination between like people like you know, revolutionaries on the ground in like Egypt, Uran, like Brazil, that and that like that does still happened, Yeah, but does still happened. It's just less of a public thing like that was

what we did. And and as well as where we did communications with people on the ground where we helped them communicate among each other, where we helped them keep the internet got up even when the government tried to

turn it off. Other fund other other fun shenanigans like that, and also archival and that like just in case some kids that does decide to beat us literally every web page in the country, which is mostly nonsensical, but like, yeah, but I do find it interesting how like yeah, there's like the twenty twelve, twenty thirteen generation that was mostly anonymous terminated and now we're in like this new generation where it's just small little groups. Yeah, and I wanted

to talk about that because it's much more decentralized. I don't know, it's weird to talk about it because at the end of the day, I inspired a lot of it, which is really weird to say. It's so weird to

say that. I like, but yeah, I'm kind of part of what revived activism and it sounds so so pretentious of me to just say that myself, but like, yeah, it is kind of what happened in like yeah, and like that that was to be too, because it was it was very like I don't know, like the Susan twelve stuff was also like it was very very I guess media centered in a way where it was it was about drawing, like drawing masses of people into things and then using it to sort of get media attention,

using it to sort of like I don't know, be be this sort of like online like also this sort of like online social movements in a way that I think it's very different than the modern stuff. So this is my conception of it, though, because I've also been kind of like, I don't know, I was off doing other stuff in twenty nineteen that had nothing to do with this, So yeah, I'm curious, Well, okay, how do I put this up? So I'm curious a like, how how you see the politics of these new groups either

sort of as different from what came before it. I think it's hard for a lot of the groups, it's hard to like see what their politics are, and some of them aren't even Like there's things like the lack Sis that aren't specifically doing activism, but they're accidentally doing anti corporate activism by just making everything like uh, that's like groups that are like in the way that they operate are very clear and inspired by my work that I used to do um and they're just not very

like political per se. They but but I still call them activists because even if it might not be their intention, they're doing activism and they're making corporations angry and wasting corporate resources, and in my book, that counts as like activism. And the fact that they in a way fight for like freedom of information, even if they might not be

the goal. Yeah, I don't know, I feel like that is the man unifying factor now it's just a fight for information because like they're currently like the single biggest active activist thing happening right now, since like is just leaking the whole activism thing that happened before as well, but now that's like the main thing. Before it was

often a lot like just didosing and stuff. But now we're so focused and like getting documents, getting software, getting files, getting like proof that things happened, getting fucking no fly list. It's just it's just a very different environment where like the goals are probably about the same in a lot of ways, at least for the people who do have an ideology. But but like, yeah, I feel like it's just much more focused on like releasing information into the free,

which I find really great. Like that that is kind of my big fight that I tried to devote myself too. Yeah, I wanted to ask also sort of just about your personal archism, because I don't know, I like talking about narchism and yeah, everyone has to around. Um, I don't know, it's it's it's a difficult question, and I feel my

answer to this question changes like every other thing. Um. I especially find it hard because like I am like doing work in very specific focus bits of like anarchists work, and so I don't really want to look myself into like I'm sorry. So so it's it's like very fluid. I'm just like obviously against states. I am like, I don't know, it's it's hard. No no governments, no shedy co operations, and it's just like having fun with friends

and being gay. That is like the rules we take this is this is a good form of a Yeah, I don't know, it's just some form of like queer anarchism. Yeah, being gay and doing crimes, it's a it's a good

it's a good thing. I guess in a way, like what kind of defines me and what keeps getting me into the spotlight is that I do just kind of have like a very strong moral compass and I go by that rather by what's legal or not legal or like sure, I try to stay with him like some safe boundaries, especially now like post indictment, um, given that they're definitely even more eyes on me now than than before and this podcast is definitely being played at some

n Yeah, there's there's there's ah, so that's something to consider, but like, yeah, I feel like I feel like that's kind of what I want to demonstrate this that like, if you have morals, you can't just stick by them, Like no one is stopping you from doing that. They might try to, but like you can just stick with

your morals. Yeah, and I think it's I think it's worth mentioning even like you know, okay, like a lot of people go to prison for doing stuff like this, some of them didn't like there there there's like, to the best of my knowledge, there is at least still one low set guy who's just in the wind who they never got and like and sick, like they they had a fed mole in the group and one of these people still got away. Fox up. Yeah, just just

just fox. So I really don't do says basically the guy that the Feds flipped inside of Losak, who got it was at the prison. Um, Like I do have to say, I kind of get why he flipped, like he at that point already had a family and stuff. But like I get that it is hard, but still, yeah, gave up your friends, Yeah, you simply do not tasty like, like, I don't know, and the fact that he still has some sort of image. Honestly, I don't know that it's just it's just infra sex commune. Uh, I don't know.

It's it's interesting for sure, but yeah, I can't come in too much of a lot of fun. There are a lot of funny chokes to be made that I shouldn't. Yeah, the Feds suck. I just I'm just gonna say that, like, oh god, it's it's been. It's it's it's been. It's been a bad week of Feds in the US too, Like yeah, honestly, just one thing again. But I am

so curious what's going to happen with the Congression link. Yeah, I don't know if you saw that, like, especially since like this means that the Republicans are going to be exposed to my block post presumably. Ah, And I am so excited for all the slurs they can come up with. It is going to be extremely funny. But I'm also very excited for like the Turfs to be like this is terrorism. See we'll be right along. Yeah, yeah, I

have gotten that before. I have gotten terrfree place before on like articles about me where they were like see, no, women don't commit crime. So this is clear proof that it's just like what what are you talking about? This is this is my male cheenes coming out was like, man, like do do you do? You do? You do? You know what people what people did, so you have the right to vote, Like come on that, Like that's the funny thing is that they at the same time also

like fetishizes the whole Suffragette thing. Yeah, I think, no fucking clue what that movement? Yeah, it's like no, no, no suffragette what what whatever? Horsewhip richie sunac not no turf whatever, unlike unlike the suffragettes, who Yeah, exactly, I don't know, it's it's silly. I'm surprised how little harassment I've gotten on Twitter so far if we exclude the whole by lesbian this. Yeah, I'm so sorry for restarting that. This course, I think me talking about that single handedly

restarted that this card. It just happened. It just happens periodically, like yeah, yeah, it's just funny because like I was just like, yeah, this is gonna get me some hatred place. But like within five minutes I had twenty one private quote. Yeah, I mean like my, my, my, I won't wake an official statement on that, which is that if you give a single ship about people calling themselves by lesbians, like, please let me know so who I can trade lives with you? Like you you seem to have like very

few problems going on. I would love to like have grown up in the world where like that's like that's the thing that you think, Like, I don't know why I think it's I think it's funny how there's people who were like wanting to follow me, wanting to interact with me as like and it's it's uh theory and kitten who like does uh funny things to the U. S. Government,

But then they draw the line at at the specific sexuality. Yeah, it's like really like I I then made like a post where I was like, sorry, I deleted that I didn't I don't have the energy to deal with people getting so upset over an innocent word and that has gotten so many many quoteweets being like yeah, and then isn't word in question was by lesbian? I say if I said like the N word or something like that was literally the kind of response I got. And it's

just like do you not have anything else to do? Like, like do you know how many people the cops killed last week? Can you please do something like come on and all the things are happening here right now, Like especially then when some of the people that come up with that are like non binary lesbians, which if you know anything about this purity in discourse, like half of the them would also like from the sounder because non binary lesbians also can't exist, and like it's why are

you why? Why are you fighting for the turf? Like that? That is my one single question I have through all the fourteen year old careers on Twitter dot com. Also, why did that why did that escourse ever escape Tumbler? Like that was because because all the Tumbler refugees came to Twitter. Yeah, but they could have left a discourse there. Yeah, but no, the world I don't know Twitter, Twitter, Twitter.

The last like like okay, like Twitter's diress course has ever been good, but like in the last obviously it's just been getting worse. And it's it's yeah, it's just the same side, Like it's it's not even that it's just bad discourse. It's just the same discourse every week, And I'm just tired of it. And I guess now that I'm a big account, I have to have an

opinion on everything. Um And also the fun part about being trans everyone is like like absolutely razor focused for like the exact one word that you say wrong so they can act, so they can like like legitimately quote unquote be t troobic at you. And it's like this is great, Like this is a great system that we've developed for existing with each other. You could simply not

do this, Yeah, you can just say like that. The fact that literally, like I was like, I'm gonna see what happens if I by lesbian and then I can't wave twenty four followers, and and the fact that it literally took seconds for people to tell me to tell all their mutuals to unfollow me because I'm highly problematic. Um was it was quite interesting. And someone was just like this has completely shattered my world view, and I'm just like sorry, if your world view gets shattered by

my sexuality, you have some soul seeking to do. Like yeah, like like like like like like actually like like I grew, I grew like like for some of them. For some people, me saying the phrase by lesbian was generally like my milkshake doc moment. Yeah, it was like it was like a second it called a second sexuality description as hit the towers, like it was, Yeah, it's so like god, it was like five am when I made that tweet.

It was just like, oh, I'm going to get a little silly with it, and and I just expected like a backlash but not that much. It was just too much. And yeah, like I know, it's not like backlash that matters and I should just ignore it. But it's like so overwhelming. Yeah, I guess do you do you have anything else that you want to say? I don't know. I think that's that covers like most of the things

I have to talk about. H Yeah, just like be Ga to crime, Hacked the Planet, Oh my god, it was genuinely it is one of my favorite things in the world. That they made the movie Hackers, and it was the worst de picture. But then also like like I it was like so I did watch them. I mean, okay, I watched it, like not to the first time. Like it wasn't like like like I was, I was like not that well when I watched it, but it was

after I like first ran into Hackers. So it took me a while to figure out that, like, wait, hold on, no, hack the Planet is the thing that everyone says, but that's actually because it's a joke for Hackers, which I see.

I still find it funny how Hackers is a movie that got hacking culture completely wrong and changed it forever, because like because like there's I don't know if you've ever seen that, but from like Defcon from there's a page on the official Deacon website talking about how bad Hackers is and how it gets everything wrong and no one should watch this movie. And now you look at this like twenty years later, and that's just what hacking

culture turned in. Yeah, the most incredible thing about Hackers is that someone managed to get the queerest fucking movie ever made made by one of the biggest companies in Hollywood, and also make it about hacking, and like it's it's the best piece of cinema ever. And I stand by this, like it fucking sucks in a lot of ways, but it's just they just managed to make a movie where no one has says somehow essentiallya shally like, so no

one says it's pretty amazing. I will say the two Asian characters are kind of whack, but other than that, it's like, yeah, it's a it's a like like it's it's a whack movie. Like like if you look at it objectively, it's a pretty bad movie. Like like there's you know, there was like a lot of way stuff in the nineties is absolutely terrible. But also like there was stuff you could just do in movies in the nineties that like you can't now, like like okay, well,

like what my example this is. I may have said this on the podcast before, but like they so they they did a like completely straight like modern day live adaptation of Romeo and Juliet that is like it's Romeo and Juliet. It's it's exactly the lines in Shakespeare, but it's like with characters set in like the like modern times and they're shooting guns each other, but like what

what do these happens to? That is there's just like a black guy doing drag and it's just like a thing, like nobody comments on it, like it's just a thing that he's having a good time. And you could not like like people people people would show up to yeah, like people people which people like yeah, like I won't

be on Tucker Carlson like like the people people. Yeah, you'd have like mobs showing up in front of your house like it's yeah, yeah, like I don't know, Like, yeah, if Hackers came out now, we would have like Tucker Carson complaining about the woke up trying to make the kids and too gay activists, Like I don't know. I love the movie so much, not not because it's good,

but because it's culturally important. Yes, and yeah, and the characters are like great, like they made everyone career somehow, and I'm still not sure whether that was intentional or not. I don't know, but I leaned towards they didn't know what they were doing, and that makes it even funnier. Yeah,

it makes it so much better. And also the fact that it's like go off past like producers and everything, and it was mazing, the queerest piece of like Hollywood media I have ever seen that wasn't meant to be queer. It's just like, yeah, yeah, cool time we went on this tension because yeah, we we we we we We simply love to see it be gay do crimes hack the planet? Uh, this is not legally for the FBI,

This is not legally actionable. This is a joke. As you can tell, yes, from the movie Hackers, which you could watch Hackers, yeah in places. Yeah, if you can watch it very legally on the Internet. I actually don't know if it's on any streaming platform. I don't think I watched it. I think it is because I watched it with my family kind of recently, which was a wild time. It's probably streaming. Oh it's it's an Apple TV apparently. Yeah, so it's there. You can find it there.

You can find it in other places. It can it can find it somewhere, both legally and illegally. If I'm allowed to endorse, like h piracy on your podcast, it's we we We did an entire episode about how the pirate stuff. So yeah, so yeah, you can find it both legally and illegally, and if you're lucky, I'm the one seeding the Torrent. And then I say, okay, but the other thing I actually should before you. If people

want to find you, where can they find you? I'm on Twitter at Underscore nine crime you and in case Twitter suspends me once again for the sixth time, I have a website at Maya dot crime you dot k it rules. It's so good it Yes, that is the reason I'm famous now, it's just because my website is paying. It's great. Yeah. So this this has been make it Happen Here. You can find us at Happened Here pod, at Twitter, Instagram, UM yeah, I guess I am at BC R three, Uh yeah, go and go and crime.

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