Part Two: Roundtable on the Future of Terrorism

was like should the government ban telegram? Right? That was the thing And there's a lot of a lot of arguments are like no, absolutely not, and there's does it? Does anyone want to speak on that? Because you know, because like if I want to talk about the government's response to these things, you know, that's a very government thing to do. Be like, oh, people are organized on this platform, get out of the platform. Problem gone, you know, and that's not how that works. You want us talking

that a little bit? Sure? Um? Yeah, so there, Yeah, getting rid of the platform? Doesn't that necessarily help, especially when it's something that is important, such as like you know, encrypted communication, which is something that more people than just Nazis need. Um And that resource should not be cut off. And there's also kind of a bad precedent to be set if the if the government is deciding which uh forms of speech it needs to have complete access to.

I don't love that. Um. The other thing is that if we knew telegram, right, they don't disappear, they formed that networks there just harder to hard. People are absolutely correct when they say D platforming works because it works for the platform and a lot of people just want that. A lot of people just don't want to see Nazi ship and they're fine with you know, D platform and they say this works, and they have data to backup that it does work. But it works for the platform.

But the people still exist, Yeah, still boosting their own ship and when they bring up building their own all tech platforms, you know works there early yeah, yeah, yeah, and there is elements that Yeah, D platform is a wider thing can or especially for like in person stuff, but yeah, for your sort of the things you're mentioning, yes, it is. It is definitely not not that cut and dry. You know, I'm really interesting because it is kind of

this middle space between social media and just a messaging app. Yeah. The thing about it too, is that anybody can look at these you know, the public channels, so without without saying anything in the chance, so people could be kind of completely invisible. Nobody like nobody knows that they're there. They're watching this stuff, and they're still getting the same messaging, they're still getting the same dates for protests, they're still

like organizing. But they can be uh, sort of just subscribe to a channel and you don't even need to be subscribed. You can, yeah, just looking into it and getting that flow of information without ever having like formal organizing, so to speak. And so it's really hard to say that, like, you know, these people planned this because there's a lot of claus bolts and ability and involved. There's so much

easy hyber linking between groups and channels and everything. So it's so easy for someone to move between ideology and to go from kind of like the base level ship and to be much deeper stuff extremely quick, very quick. Yeah, actually quick. Well that's like that's good and that's good

for them. About telegram is that you have all of the people that are vulnerable to let's say, new ideas in one place exactly if you're trying to plan a collapse, you're gonna need a lot more people than the numbers that the people who want the collapse actually have. So the easiest way to kind of move things along is to sert inserting their ideas and their discourses and kind of altering the vibe of certain digital environments manually until

they have um, what we can kindly call cannon fodder. Yeah, or even starting their own and saying like, you know, this is a maga platform and it's actually just you know, went some bunch of accelerationists too made it, and they made it to recruit them because he saw attempts of this with like Q and on its people who are way more slavation is trying to use people's extreme It was successful and they did it and people died. Well

you're I mean that. And then also you've got like like the idea of the boogaloo right that's being co opted to try to appeal to leftists, and I mean there's a really good article by Left Coast Right Watch that goes into one of those chats and they're basically like, yeah, I really try to push these ideas of really try to push talking points like black lives matter and all of us who want to get these protesters on our side.

And then you also have um, some blatant like white supremacist groups who are all using the boogaloo, and how much of that too is like how much that is sort of real genuine like I am not racist, I believe in black lives matter, like I want to be part of this even though or like much of it also is um kind of reminiscent of what we were

talking about or how about my stuff in it? But like with you know, the idea of from Anson of like Healter Skelter and like causing that race where it's like they what they would do is like try and frame black people for it and say like this was you know yeah, yeah, I mean, and how much of it is saying like this is black lives matter and

they want people to see that after they do. The Googleloo group that showed up in Portland in January in July when the particular fads were happening, now that they showed up and we're all like, yeah, we're here to support black lives matter and standing against the federal government and stuff, um, and they had some very suspicious patches that it took me took me about a year to

figure out what they were. And it's like this accelerationist like, um, it ties into a whole bunch of like eco fascist

propaganda stuff. Um and yeah, it's like they're they're saying these things, well they have these very obscure patches, um and yeah, this is an important reason why we need people who are not very smart, Like I will say, Jimmy dor who puts these gives these people platforms are some of the worst and are going to cause a lot of problems because they have no idea what they're doing or they know what they're doing, and they're just bad.

And like that boogle boo thing kind of serves a twofold purpose in that you can bring people who self identify as leftists into the movement, but you also have a really good scapegoat for like actual Actually that was a big thing that we saw in Minneapolis when things first popped off, and like Precinct was getting burned down and suddenly people on the internet start losing their minds about the umbrella guy at the and there was a

guy who was indicted. He was a boo boo boy who was indicted for um like headlines said burning down

the precinct. He fired a weapon, and he fired a gun on like near the wall exactly, and so that at the same time takes away agency from left wing movement and the States able to be like, look, see, it's just it's okay that cracked down on them because they're all, you know, wild white supremacists exactly, just from any autonomous room with the forms of the people in a community that isn't that we wouldn't necessarily refer to

his left. It's just piste off people. I mean, that's what we saw in every single you know, everybody, the young kids who are sucking piste off and are going to go smash it. And it's like saying, all of this is people from outside of the town where it's like I know, yeah, it's a tale as old as time, Like outside agitator has been used since before this. It's a very old state talking point. Yeah, what are you

gonna say that? Um, yeah, I was gonna say. Also, it's somewhat related to that we're talking about using like human on his cannon fodder, and also ties into the sab sit conversation we're having. So my research I special are not specialized. I focus on Christian identity, this white supremacist ideology, and how specifically how it's grown since the nineties until now through like the Internet and all that fun stuff. This whole point they've been pushing lately is

to like there this with Christian identity. The whole thing is they are preparing for the apocalypse, which they called the tribulations. And they see modern see I folks see the boogaloo as like the tribulation that's coming. So what they're trying to do is go off grid and really try to like establish this new land or like to protect their kids and everything from like pollution and all that ship, but also to be away from the collapse

and be able to start buy it. And then while they're doing all that, like prepping homesteads and compounds and stuff, they're also like pushing like election fraud conspiracies and all that on like Q and on and the maggot crowd because they believe it. Not because yeah, right, they don't believe it. They know it's bullshit, but they can use it to accelerate collapse, just like January says, yes, so exactly.

I mean when I mean there are groups when Joe Biden won the presidency or won the election or whatever. Some groups being like, yeah, I really try to push this theory, this conspiracy about election fraud, even if you even if you don't believe in it, just push it because that helps our cause. And that's that's something to be really mindful of too. Forgot where else I was going with that. Well, yeah, a lot of them don't

mean what they say. They'll say things that will push other people to do something that they don't necessarily want to do. And that's a lot of a lot of Like during January six, so much excitement because they could see that the Q and on crowd are actually mobilizing, and so they said to them, like to themselves, like, you know, get them, get the mobilizing for the white race,

get the mobilizing for you know, our cause. And they've really successfully been able to infiltrate that and be able to get some people on board with some of it just based on using their rhetoric. Yeah, I know, I talked about this on our podcast, but you could see it, like I reported on January six, in person, and like

you could watch it happen. Someone with a skull mask on or proud boy or an oath keeper would literally come back from the police line, grab a group of people, yell something at them about Q and On or the storms upon us, and throw them up to that riot line until I did a really good did a really good visual investigation of how those extremistcupes used mega people in Q and On people as their foot soldiers. Qua a folk Qua didn't really good break down their animous podcast. Yea, yeah.

But it's also with I mean not to link everything the Christian identity, which I have a tendency to do, but it's it's very ideologically similar to Q and On, like from a Christianity point of view, Like that's Q and On is like so close to the edge of Christian identity. It's very scary. Actually I talked about it

on Jake Hammer Hands Q Clarence podcast. But there's also like not only trying to who accelerate things through them, but also trying to recruit them through these like very very similar talking bo It's about like the Synagogue of Satan and all that, saying that Christian identity is an entry point for some of them, some of them can bring it up as an entry point into further like accelerationist Nazi ship, but like they will start with Christian

identity because I think that it's more pactual to people who already believe in Q and on. Yeah exactly. I mean, like Will was saying, these there's a lot of this comes from these kind of boomer conspiracies and anti vax groups, and you're not going to be able to get you know, Mimon pap pap into like Wotonism or something like that hard enough, you can't. But like Christianity is something that's palatable.

It's something that's normal to them, and as you can kind of slowly tweak it through to it on, you can get them to this much work stream Like okay, talk about Christian identity. I think we should, like maybe Matt, you could define it Christian identity. It's this radical offshoot of Christianity that sees all white people as a true

Israelites from the Bible um. And they also think Jewish people are all literally the spawn of say And there's this really dumb theory they came up with and like kind of rewrote the whole Bible off of called can I name z okay okay dual seed line theory where they say, like the story if you know about uh, like Adam and even all that they had Caine enabled, right, so they see, um Kane was the offspring of Eve and the devil and he was literally the spawn of

Satan and then he intermingled with all these races that were there before Adam and Eve and created this demonic race. And it's really really fucking dumb, but it's still here. It's been for the tot minute. I'm probably going to keep going. It's gonna get worse calling it now, it's gonna get worse. Yeah, but uh, and the whole thing

is they essentially like worshiped like a Nazi Jesus. They see Jesus only was really only talking to the white race, and that Christianity and like God only is able to

be perceived to buy the white race. And before you start laughing at people, because yes, it does sound very silly, keep in mind that these are extremely dangerous, like right, this is this is one problem with two and on when liberals just start laughing about how crazy it is, and then they're so surprised at January six, where like no, no, like it's yeah, like they're actually dangerous because you've mentioned

in a lot. Yeah, and he's chricially that he's been mentioned in various manifestos linked to you know, actually has warned very like organized. It's like I mean, historically I think part of like with Christian identity, with a lot of these kind of like a lot of them based their like whole historical context of like arianism on this rewriting of history based on um a fake study that was done in Nazi Germany about uh where some proto

Indo European languages came from. And so they believe that like white people came from uh an area that's you know, you could generally say it's certainly near the Black Sea. UM, and that it's based on this like strange idea that like Sanskrit is not the oldest language, but like are you pointing the gun at me because I'm stepping in you? I think it actually is useful and yeah, there there

is actual because they really tried to push this. They made um a lot of fake studies that you could spend a lot of time researching this and believe that it's true, UM, because there's just so much written about it. And I think this is like a tactic that they really tend to do with historical revisionism. Allat is just crank out essay after essay, even if it's wrong, even if it's totally like based on false data, just doesn't

data that they don't care. They just write about it and then they think that like having more written about it makes it more legitimate. And if that's what we are talking to I've been talking about this this whole time we've been not recording. Is there's just an overflow of content that is so easy to access, you know, not necessarily from these specificers they're talking about, just from the further right. In general, I just overflow the content.

It's like always the top ship on Facebook. To give an idea of how pervasive even that idea of like where Indo European languages came from, Like when I still went to college, I took a Religions of South Asia course and we had to spend like multiple days where a professor went through these myths about like what was the area invasion? Which like was there are arian people that that is a thing historically, Yes they're not white people, but like going through a new definition of white people.

Sure it's based on language. They think of arianism as like referring to a linguistic pattern. Yeah, but like in a university course, we still had to go through and like debunk these myths because they've gotten so pervasive within the culture. Yeah. And another thing I want to say is that kind of these more entry level conspiracy ideas, it is hard to over emphasize how small the spaces between the entry level stuff and the much harder stuff.

It can happen extremely, extremely, you know, I'll give I'll give an example. I went to you I was reporting on an anti vax protest and they went straight into talking about New World Order and Project Locks, Lockstep and and the raw Childs and the Builderers and like the Sabbatines and David Ice ship just me and this is this was the middle of the day and like a metropolitan area with a bunch of boomers and trump paths who are getting this like hardcore ship pumped at them

or you uh sell that a lot. With the Nashville bombing, to like immediately it was like, oh, it was actually an attack on dominion. And also it was orchestrated by the roths Childs to destroy evidence of voter for I forgot that. Yeah, And then also there was a whole like, there was a bunch of stuff that came up. There is a big conspiracy that it was actually a missile strike. I had to talk of my grandpa down from that.

There was a video that circulated for a while about then I had to get into a conversation with my grandpa, but at the time was super isolated because of COVID and that's a whole yeah, And I had to like talk him down and show him like, no, here's uh, here's a video from somebody I knew who was like somewhat in the area and saw the explosion and like,

and there was not a missile anywhere the day. One of the data studies that I've done is UM and worked on is using big pool and small pool discord servers of far right extremists UM, far right militia groups and UM very very like accelerationist skull mass type networks UM and looking at the big pools and small pools and seeing the app mentions between them, and there was not one person who was more than three notes away

from anybody else. So it's very it can't be overstated how close people are from entry to very very very extreme h types of goals and ideology, explicit ideologies that explicitly pushed violence. And you know, another point I want to bring up is um like, yeah, there's been much said about Queen On isn't going away. It's just not called quan On anymore. Um with with these anti vax mobilization,

those mobilizations and groups aren't going away. They're just going to continue to shift in evolve their focus and the network, and they're planning for it like they've they've they've they've designed it that way. So I sometimes I find the normal stuff first, sometimes I find the crazy stuff first.

But I mean, not even that long ago. I came across a particular social media profile that was explicitly calling for acts of terror and attempting to organize acts of terror and displaying acts of terror, which is like an

immediate problem that needs to be dealt with. However, they had multiple alternate accounts that you follow that path, and on their other accounts they're sharing like Tucker Carlson, stuff like things that your grandparents are going to watch right like, and that is done on purpose to try to like siphon people out of um more quote unquote mainstream versions of like conspiratorial thinking directly into like you should start exploding things, and even even more even more, let's sa

left of center conspiracy thinking ties into this, and it's not, you know, conspiracy theories are not solely a thing of the right, which which passed me off to no end. No, I just want to back you up on that, Like I think there's this maybe this like implicit idea that the left is immune to conspiracy theories when it very

much is. Um. Yeah, I just wanted to emphasize that point. Yeah, that idea though, of like never being that far from the serious stuff is something that's really really observable, even beyond like a data level. I I used to like consult with local newsrooms on how to report on things, and one of the big points I always tried to drill in was like, if you fuck this up and you frame this the wrong way, it will have consequences. And if this is stepping in it too much, we

can come literally but like the um Dylan Roof. Dylan Roof started his journey to radicalization by reading about Trayvon Martin in local news websites and local newspapers and then googling black on White crime and his first result up by the same exact thing exactly, and like it does not It did not take long for him to go from I am reading local news articles that are framed

this specific way to I am killing people. That's not normal, of course, like a lot of people are not going to be reading local news and then suddenly start to think this way, but like there is a concerted effort by some very specific people who would like to make that pathway easier. It's well, it's interesting because we don't

we can't like define it really as terrorism. What are they doing the like just they're just saying things, They're just encouraging people to do things, and like they're not like they're not doing anything wrong. We can't really call

it terrorism. The most dangerous people in this game are usually not the ones doing the shooting, people behind the scenes trying to people to go on these paths in the first looking for people who are willing and then so they see somebody reading local news maybe and they want to make that pathway easier for to go from local news and Dylan roof like because that's not a normal jump, but they really want to find people who are looking at local news like that and then say

to them like, well, okay, you look at this, now look at that trying to try us back to climate change. How do you see do you see a similar pathway instead of instead of someone googling no black white crime, like googling stuff about collapse and and and like modern modernization.

Eric Striker, I don't know. Eric Striker has been on about this, and I think that he's a I mean relatively like middle point that people get to like fairly like average people do listen to things like Eric Stryker entry level explicit Nazi and another thing and cut me off if we don't want to go in this direction.

But you know, one of the biggest places where we see young people getting into conspiracy theories is tiktoktok alright, TikTok cut that cut that cut that we're not we're not cutting that that is that is with the branches of the pod. Yeah. I mean, the biggest entry points I've seen for a lot of things remains crisis. Yeah. And the thing is this, our upcoming climate scenario is going to give people an easier jumping on point. Well, yeah,

that's so. I mean we were talking about how like the mythology of like black and white crime and all this stuff. They're trying to create a situation that, you know, with the urgency that justifies fascism, which on its own is unjustifiable and ridiculous. But when there's a crisis, climate change is the existential threat that they've been trying to

artificially create, and they no longer have to. They now get to skip a lot of steps and save a lot of energy by just planning at the fact that everything is literally on fire, and that like that that makes it so much quicker. Say we have to do something. We have all the guns. Now would be a great time to join it in our power. This kid, this

this is our Bimar era hyperinflation type ship. I mean, this is like when you're when you can't get food from the grocery store anymore because of supply chain problems, or when everything around you is on fire. You don't need like a grace, you don't need a great replacement theory, you don't need anything. You don't need to say that the Rothchilds are behind it. You. You haven't just need

to wait. You have you have enough things that you experience yourself, and it's much scary or when you can't because I can't, Like how do we how do we stop? Yeah? I can't. It's harder. The world is literally on fire. It's it's a problem and something needs to be done about it. I don't like your solution, but something needs to happen. So what what what do you think on this path? And this is going to get a whole lot more speculative, but like, what can we do to

make people falling down those pathways less often? Like like, yes, that is that, that's that's one of the things that we're trying to do on the pot is making sure that people do not fall fall down the the doomer pathway because yeah, this that that does get people along down like against like like against most types of extremism. Eco extremism is most logical. Like you look at it and you said, we need a radical change right now, and that's correct. Um, It's just the way that they

go about it is very very different. And that's why, like you know, eco fascism is very different. It's its own type of eco extremism is in green anarchy, that's a very different type of eco extremism. Like these are all different parts of something that almost has the same goals but wants to go about them very very very differently. Again, and it's so easy to just look around and see how everything's on fire and I think like the government's

doing nothing about it. The government starts doing something about it, and then suddenly it's the state's two bigs were in communism, you know, so they all of like different goals and it's very conflicting on how to how to deal with and like even the very different tactics between green anarchy and like fascistic you extremism. They also will get two different endicals, right, like you like your your basic amprinm, what's a very different life than you're you know, very

you know very stepping in its pilled fascist right. A collapse can only benefit the right, it can't. A collapse can only benefit the people who already have power, who already able bodied, who already it's stocked up on gone already, Like, yeah, that does frustrate me with their being anarchists who are like rooting for the collapse because you're not gonna win, like you're just going to get behind a fence somewhere

on the wall. Yeah, well, they've got very strict ideas of which people count as human and the goal of the majority of fascist movements is to you know, purge the ranks of the people they see is lesser, and they have they have they have very precise ideas about who they plan on letting to survive the collapse. So let's let's I think it's time to start talking about and tell me if I'm taking this in the long direction.

You know what the funding someone who's listening to this, Yeah, recycle, stop recycling, it's all, it's all getting buried in the organ force. Just vote, vote. I mean, like, what did you start local? Find a local group, find a local direct action group, investigate that group and see who is behind it. But fine, start locally. It has to start at the local level, because when should I'm trying to say, I'm gonna say, if the collapse comes or like orally no,

not the collapse like local, local collapses. There's disasters continuiou disasters are gonna fec at the local level. No, talk to your talk to your neighbors, neighbors, talk to your family, Like, let's try to get your family on these paths that lead to helping your neighbors instead of you know, making friends with the church militia. Before you buy a gun, learn how to fucking garden. Yes, but buying a gun and that sort of thing is is good. It's good

to know how to use firearms. Basic emergency preparedness, yes, but learn learn how to put on our turn to learn how to feed yourself. Learn how to grow some fucking food. Learn how to cook that fucking food. Get an effect all that comes before, like you get to be a fallow up character. Oh yeah, an individual first aid kit. You can buy them by the online, can buy the stores, you can you can buy them in like some pawn shops. Yeah, I like North American Rescue

or North River Rescue. I'm sure we'll talk about a text more on the product. Well there, Look, there are two big things. One, we all have a moral obligation to consistently counter the black pill doomer ship. Everything is coming to an end, like it doesn't have to. That's optional. Like we we things are going to get bad, but there's degrees of that. We can stop it from being. And you don't need civilizational We don't need civilization to

end like that can be done. So. Two, we also have an obligation to counter the individualist stuff and and and focus our efforts more towards towards community and relationships. And that is so so important because every idiot that's going to buy a gun and have a bunker not only is not going to make it, but it's gonna

screw the rest of us. Like this has to be a communal effort and a civilization thing, Like we do need the civilization to change, like we need human society, as we lay out we as has a lot of problems. I understand people's critiques of human civilization. We still need a society, but yeah, we need we need places that you know, people are going to catherine and people you know, provide the things that we have. Um. I noticed that that can be a loaded word on certain political circles.

So I'm not you know, we're not getting into like civilization theory and that kind of anything. I was going to say, I would argue any ideology or ideas just the boogaloo that uh kind of hypes up a collapse is generally one you should stay away from anything that makes the collapse sound like it makes it sound sexy and personal story. As I think it's important to remember, like if there was some massive civil conflict that happened. I think the people who would suffer the most, or

the noncombatants, talk about anything to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't talk about a kind of episode of terrorism. Bad. Um, well, we'll do plugs of the end. Hold put the gun back in your pants together. I was talking about historical precedent earlier, about things I've seen in the past with collapses and how people with guns and people who with training end up being the ones to gain power. Um. Something that like I was specifically reading about that was, um,

like the Rwandan genocide. If you know, it was just three months where most of the Susi people were wiped out. Um, there are conflicting numbers, so I'm not gonna specifically say any but um, you know the more recently like this year. Earlier this year, Um was only when Rwanda admitted what it was, that it was a genocide. And um, the people the armed forces were the ones who became like the leaders and then they were backed by the government. Yeah.

And it's like it can't happen here though we are we are immune to this in our response of the world. It will not happen here. And the other thing is, look at where you get your information from. Seriously, no matter who you are, take a long, hard look at who you get your even if you're on the left, especially if you're actually on the left. You know, if you want to hear about something that's happening in an area, look at the people who are actually on the ground reporting.

People don't just rely on like news aggregators. Especially on Twitter. There has been a lot of bad, very bad faith news agregators on Twitter who are posing as leftist. This has been a huge problem, even leftists who just don't

do their or just do a very bad job. People who call themselves like extremism or counter terism researchers and they are really talking about anti They say that they are counter extremism researchers, and they pose that way, and they look sometimes like they could be, sometimes like they're not, but like you know, vary varying degrees of life, legitimacy, but like they focus only on like the left wing stuff.

They don't think, they don't see it has to be this idea of like keeping it balanced right, like not making it just like a far right issue, which I would argue I think a lot of other people would that this kind of stuff is more concerning issue and there is like merit definitely to looking at left acceleration left which is not for the record, left accelerationism is not talking about anti fascists. But um, it's really not time to get like, well, left accelerations will people be

its own affo. But what what some people do posing as um, you know, people who have credibility and are able to um kind of sway opinion, They are not really doing what they say that they're doing. They're really just trying to shift the narrative form of racially motivated violent extremism, which to the big obviously to being like BLM is racially motivated violent extremes, and they want to

push that narrative further and further. I think let's let's let's let's go, let's kind of probably start to like wrap up and say our final thoughts on you know, this whole this whole topic. Um, I know, we we didn't. We didn't, we did not, we did we did not get to talk about like eco defense very much. Anyone has any final thoughts on that and how they see it kind of growing and how they see the state's

response to it. Um, that might be worth briefly mentioning. Yeah, let's kind of let's let kind of go around in a circle and give kind of everyone's you know, final thoughts on the on the subjects. Um, I think collapse is bad and I think that well, I mean that's my main my main thing. But anything that's uh appealing to you and on like an ecological level that's collapsed related to something you should be very wary of. And I think you should be ware very wary of, like

generally everything. I feel like it's kind of like a butcher, be careful about everything. Um. Yeah, I guess in my opinion, the idea of total collapse is very misleading because it's easy and disasters don't work like that. You're not going to suddenly reset one day. Um. Everything is going to suck, and you're going to need to fight for whatever semblance of a society that you want to see in the world. Talk to your neighbors. That can people in your city,

in your neighborhood. There are people doing good ship in whatever city town you live in most likely, if not, you can start it. Look at your local mutual aid network, Look at the people who are taking action around and get involved seriously. You know, it could be going out into a park Saturday mornings and just like giving out food, talking to the people who are most affective, talked to

people seriously every once a person. You need to talk to touch grass, you talk to people if you need, like the most basic thing to start on any sort of mutual aid work trying to find a food not ball chapter in your They're well organized, they're easy to join it. You don't have to put on block and fight a cop. It's yeah, it's a good entry point and it's it's great. That's great training for for disaster relief.

If you have money and you want to help seriously, just give cash to on house, people on the street. You give money, give money to people, give money directly to people. Yep. Uh. My last thoughts are just that I think the idea of collapse or whether actual collapse themselves, environmental or otherwise, will always be something to rally behind, Like it is always an entry point as well as

a motivator from from all for all sides, from all sides. Um. But it's like when these things become very silent, like was mentioned before, when they're outside of your door, that's when you know, that's when like the ideology kind of hits the pavement, like what is actually going to play out, what is actually going to happen, and how that's gonna affect people. It's very real. So building community, you know, building connections and just understanding you know, who is in

your community. It's probably one of the most important things. Yeah, the idea of collapse is a romantic and ridiculous notion. Uh come up with people who are like really into like apocalyptic thinking and the version of themselves where they get to be the main character. So first and foremost take care of each other. There are a lot of people out there who want to manipulate you and want to change the way you think about things, and they really really want you to buy in to the end

times and you don't have to because you're smarter than that. Yeah, it's it's not hopeless. We really have to move away from hierarchical thinking. Our society really incentivized this hierarchical thinking and thinking. I was saying to is sect like we um, we really need to just be focusing on people, like if things people, because you know, somebody doesn't have to you know, earn you know, respect and earn humanity. For some reason, we try and make it seem like that.

But people are people. Um, people are in different circumstances because of usually because of just the way that the world is. And um, yeah, you need to just you need to organize locally. You need to help your own people and stay away from the internet. Ship stop posting. Stop posting, as I'm as, stop posting, even though like we'll keep doing it because I'm the good posters. Um, who wants who wants to plug the pot? Your PCT follow terrorism bad? We're on what is the pot? Like? What? What?

What do you? Yeah? We go through, um, portrayals of terrorism and extremism and conspiracies and conspiracies in popular media, and we get it from the perspective of people who studied this and say, did this succeed in portraying these things or did it as more often does problems completely fail and cause us all personal problems be propaganda? And did you make care of propaganda or did you make good media about That is a thin line, I mean such a thin line. I've made a career out that

is that is the thin terror line? Yeah, do you want to plug your fantastic group. Yeah, absolutely with you can read anything I read at Anti Hate dot c A and we do just general reporting on uh far right extremism in Canada as well as Infiltration podcast. Oh and I also host a podcast called The Unusual Show. Yeah, if you want to keep up to date on extremism in Canada, their group is one of is probably the best one around right now in my opinions. And yeah,

you do, you do, you do very good work. You keep your eye on my home country where my family lives. So thank you for that. Um, and I'm very happy to to be talking with you guys in the beautiful woods where we have no cell service. We can't post um and that's good and we're gonna continue doing that and stop using this microphone. So goodbye. Um yeah and terrorist and at the podcast. With that, that wraps up

the Terrorism round Table Forest Discussion episodes. Thanks for listening to all of us rant about our specific weird niche focuses and hopefully trying to have it within the useful context of climate change. You can follow me at Hungry Bowtie. You can follow the podcast Happen Here pod and cool Zone Media on Twitter, and I believe Instagram, you can follow some of the researchers. I interviewed UM on their podcast at Terrorism Bad. So that wraps up this discussion.

Thanks for listening, See you later in the podcasting verse, the pod verse. Okay, goodbye, Okay. It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone Media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,