Cool Zone Media.
Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and this is it Could Happen Here. Today, We've got a special episode for you. This is a guest episode by Olive, a Minneapolis resident and movement legal worker who hosts the Outlaw podcast. So, without further ado, here's Olive.
Minneapolis, Purple City Print.
Put it on a map, Hi, and welcome to the first crossover episode of it Could Happen Here and Outlaw, an anti oppression podcast where we demystify how the law is used to neutralize descent in the US. I'm your host, Olive. I live in Minneapolis, and if you've read a single headline over the last two months, you probably know that we are battling the largest immigration enforcement operation in US history.
Since early December, Minnesota has been occupied by three thousand agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement ICE and Customs and Border Protection CBP, who have already abducted, imprisoned, and deported at least four thousand people. In the face of this devastating federal occupation, people are showing up every single day
to defend their migrant neighbors in unimaginably beautiful ways. And on the other side of this effective resistance is expansive legal repression all of the many ways the state uses the law and its enforcement mechanisms to crush dissent. More than four hundred people have been arrested for protesting ICE or following ICE vehicles, with thirty five of them now facing federal charges under eighteen USC. One eleven, assaulting, resisting,
or in peing a federal officer. I think it's really important for those of you outside of Minnesota to know how law enforcement and political prosecution are working here, because it might come to where you live to and it's different than other kinds of movement repression that I've seen. Instead of the agencies that normally police citizen protesters, like local and state cops or the FBI, it's primarily ICE and CBP who are carrying out arrests, and its wholeland
Security investigations doing the investigations. It's happening this way because arrests are mostly happening when people are responding to ICE activity, and so those are the agencies who are present to make arrests. This impacts everything from how arrests go down and the conditions of incarceration, to the kinds of charges
that people are catching. To understand what all this actually means, you need to hear from those who are experiencing it, the people who have been detained and prosecuted for pro testing ICE. So in this episode, you'll hear two interviews from Minneapolis rapid responders. First, you'll hear from Clem and Ray about their experience being arrested out of their car and taken into ICE attention. And second, Lucy and Isabelle will talk about catching charges and navigating cases during the surge.
Stick around at the end for a special treat, a poem from isabel and a new song out of Minneapolis that responds to the surge, and just the heads up before we get into it. In this episode, you're going to hear people talk about their first hand experiences with police violence. So take care of yourself and if you like the episode, check out the other episodes of Outlaw wherever you listen to podcastsous from the North, from the South,
from everywhere, Welcome to Outlaw. You're both here to talk about legal oppression of ice water in Minneapolis over the past two months. Can you both introduce yourselves briefly and your connection to the Twin Cities.
I am ray is. They then pronouns I'm from here. I grew up here and have lived most of my life in the Twin Cities, and I now live in Potterhorn Park. That's in South Minneapolis.
Site of high ice activity, the highest I believe.
I would think that is true, and quite close to the sites of George Floyd as well as Renee Goods murders.
My name is Clem. I've lived in the Cities for like five years maybe now. I grew up in the Southwest and I also live like on the border of Powder Horn in the Central neighborhood, so kind of yeah, halfway between where Renee was shot and where George Floyd was killed.
So you both were arrested while you were doing ice w in your car. For people who are listening, this gets called commuting here. It can look different ways, but it often involves a hyper local signal call with a dispatcher and commuters to be able to notify and dispatch rapid responders when ice is around. Commuters track ice vehicles,
oftentimes following them around, which ICE doesn't like. So my question for you two is what kinds of tactics have you witnessed state agents use to stop this kind of rapid response organizing.
I feel like they have escalated and it always depends on the agent. But there's times where they'll just slow roll and drive like a normal person. There's times where they'll run red lights, they'll break check you, they'll just like go in loops around the city to try and lose you. And then depending on however they are, they'll try and pull you over and intimidate you, or they'll try and lead you to like a police station or have a share of pull you over. And they've threatened
people with like stocking charges and stuff like that. And yeah, we personally have been we've had agents come up to our windows when we were commuting, the two of us, we've had we followed agents like all the way to northeast and a long time, probably like an hour, and then eventually downtown they had sheriffs pull up on us and pull us over and tell us to stop following. And then we have the other thing that I'm sure you want to talk to us about.
A lot of what we've been seeing is just this recklessness like speaking through red lights and not signaling, just like a lot of like traffic violations. And then once you're pulled over, just having your windows smashed it and like them using all these intimidation tactics but like not necessarily detaining people.
Yeah, and all of these vehicles don't necessarily look like a cop car. It's pretty rare for them to like actually turn on their lights and sirens. So when they're going through intersections as quote unquote law enforcement, it's pretty rare for someone to see them. And there are times where we almost witness like te bones of them just recklessly running a red light.
Yeah, all the time.
There's been a good number of car accidents also involving their cars.
Right, Yeah, and like not even caused by communing. They've just slipped on ice and ran into poles and then they tear gas observers who were heckling them because they don't know how to drive in Minnesota.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's turn to January seventh, twenty twenty sixth, the same day Renee Good was killed by ice. You both were out commuting. Can you tell me about how that day started for you?
It was me picking up Clem, and immediately there was like a sus car that like zoomed off, and then Clem check the plates and it was Ice that we think was just waiting outside of the house to intimidate. Unclear, but I mean it certainly felt that way. Had anything happened like that to you before Clem with them targeting the house, wasn't there something that.
I think at that point because they've used the tactic too of like when an observer is tailing them, they'll run your license plate and then drive you back to your house that the car is registered to as an intimidation tactic and they'll get out and take pictures of the house. But I think at that point me and my roommates that hadn't happened yet. But we had spent a lot of time at Whipple, like just observing the cars going in now the gates and trying to record
all that data. And when you're there, there's just like intimidation vehicles that will just like drive up right next to your driver's side window and film you and take pictures. So it was certainly in some sort of database at
that point. But what's Whipple is the federal building that is near Fort Snelling State Park, which is by the airport, and that's where ICE has been operating out of, and it's the Command headquarters for like the entire Upper Midwest, so Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakota is I think Iowa too.
Okay, So the day starts off, there's an ice agent outside your house and you get in the car to start commuting. Tell me about what happens next.
The abandoned car.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first thing I responded to is near Little Earth, which is like a gated community but for like people who are it's like an urban reservation, is what it calls itself. And there's a call of ice at a park nearby there, and we showed up
and there was just an abandoned car. And when I went and talked to someone on the street, you staying next to it, basically explained the situation of ice roll up on them, and they ran on foot and left the car, and they basically had to push the car out of the road, and then they ended up locking it because the person's documents. So I was staying with the car and calling tow truck companies that have offered
free toes for people who have gone inducted. And so we were probably there for like, I don't know, more than thirty minutes, and I think as that was happening is when Renee was shot. So neither of us were like on the call or looking at shots or anything, and really went home for a break. And that's when we heard the news of that.
Yeah, because I lived really close by to there, and there was a lot of swirling information, so people saying, you know, someone was shot, and then at first people being like, come down to this area, and then you know, very shortly after people being like, it's totally cordoned off, don't come down. There's also enough observers and we need people to be out there doing this still because we can't invest all of our resources into this one thing
that's happening. And probably within the hours when we got the message that was saying that there were vehicles staged in a parking lot down the street. So we drove down there and there were already observers, people in cars and on foot, probably around thirty people, and it was kind of a standoff of these vehicles, probably around five fish vehicles, and then people blowing whistles, honking horns, and so Clem and I were there in the car doing that.
So you see the news that Renee was killed and for doing exactly what you were doing driving around your neighborhood to look out for your neighbors, and you get back in the car and you keep going.
Yeah, that didn't stop us. I mean, if anything, it you know, made us feel like we need to be out here because they're not stopping. We're not going to stop either.
So you said, you arrive at the next scene, where are you and what is ICE doing there?
Yeah, it's the Dollar Tree parking lot, which is like on Lake Street and the uptown area. And yeah, there's five vehicles presumably staging because what we've been calling out where they're just like parked planning what they're going to do next. And there weren't any agents out of car. It was just a bunch of cars sitting there that we knew were ICE.
And a bunch of observers were responded.
We were just like in the parking lot, they could still have driven around us, like there was room on either side of our car that they could have driven past us. And then in addition to that they could have driven around like there were just several options for them to get around it us. At that point, I think some agents got out and were like, move your vehicle, move your vehicle. And one of the cars this like huge suv ramm to the back of my car.
To get it out of the way while you were in it.
What we were in it, Yeah, And I think at that point clem turned to me was like, they're gonna smash out the windows and I was like yep. And so at that point I think we were both prepared for for what was going to happen. I guess though. Also I mean once they smashed the back of the car, I was thinking like, Okay, they got us out of the way, like that might be it. But then so the cars out of the way, but they all got out of their vehicles. They first maced the windows, so
it's like they have a die in it. It's like a bright orange and they maced the passenger, the driver, and the windshields windows and they came around on they smashed both both of the passenger and driver windows and then sprayed bear mace through clemside into both of our faces. Right before they smashed the windows, we grabbed each other's hands and we just held hands as it was happening around us. And then I saw that bright orange mace
coming from the passenger windows. So they sprayed it directly in Clem's face, and then they reached over and sprayed me and they were able to open up the doors with the windows smashed, and they dragged us out, and he punched me in the jaw, like in the lip really while they cuffed me, and they used pain compliance.
It's like a.
I mean, it's torture. So they've pulled my wrist up or my hand up against my arm with the cuffs on, and then pulled me or like up against the vehicle where I was detained separately from the Clem. You can talk about what happened to you at the same time.
Yeah, So I could feel the door open, and then they tried to yank me out and under my seat belt and I was holding onto the seat belt and eventually they got that undone and I was just like trying to hold onto you as tired as I could until they were able to break that grasp. And then two agents pulled me out and slammed me on the floor and got on top of me and put me in cuffs and I'm still just have my eyes closed
so the mace doesn't get in them. And yeah, from there, I fell a few times and kept just being dead weight, and they kept trying to take me to cars, but they didn't know which car they were supposed to go to, or they would go to a car and they didn't have the keys for it. So I was just like kept getting walked in circles, not seeing what was going on, and like hearing the confusion of all of them, until eventually I got put in the back of a car and you got put into a separate car.
And the way there, I mostly just was focused on breathing through the pain on the way to Whipple, and like what was so disgusting to me? I mean, it was so fresh in our minds that Renee had just been killed, right, and I'm hearing them singing on the radio. There was one agent who is singing like I got a packet, got a packet for the sunshine or something
like that, and had a lot of laughter. I remember the phrases fucking Somali's and later one of them complaining about all these fucking whistles, and I remember thinking like, oh, fuck, yeah, they're working, And wasn't too long before we arrived in the garage. It's a giant garage where they process people and there are mostly agents, vehicles, and people have been detained, like a line of people have been detained.
Yeah, I just want to point a couple of things out in what you both have said that's a little bit different than we normally see in protests related legal repression, which is one detention of people who are citizen protesters or just people arrested for protest activity by ICE, by immigration enforcement or by federal agents in general. That's usually something that is done by state or local law enforcement cops or sheriffs, and people are taken to the local
jail for processing. But here what's happening is you're being taken to Whipple, which is the ICE Detention center where all non citizens detained by ICE for immigration reasons are also taken and processed. But you're also being brought there, so you're getting a window into ICE operations and you're taken into a place that people also normally don't have access to. It's a pretty high security building that they don't like people from the outside inside. But there you are in the garage, right.
Yeah, So we're on our knees and at one point I commented on how young the people looked that were holding Clem and they pulled us apart and they brought me to the opposite side of the garage, and they're still using the pain compliance. They're filming me. The whole time. There was just a bunch of agents that were filming me, and like three guys that were like on me.
And.
I said to them, I said, make it hurt, daddy, and I was being mouthy, and just this one guy in particularly seemed really freaked out by that, and they he pushed me to the ground with my face to the floor, and he said, you like the dirt, queer. And my reaction for a lot of the time that this was happening is I just was laughing and laughing, and I said, yeah, I fucking love the dirt, like
I love the dirt more than anything. And I don't know how long I was like that, but they kept me on the ground and then eventually brought us in to bring us to the cells.
We walked past like this central command hub with all of these people who are working in this so called metro surge operation, and then on the left for cells of people who had been detained. I think we passed at least five cells from what we you could see, and they were filled just like wall to wall of black and brown people that yeah, I had like one toilet in there, so probably at least like two or three hundred people in there.
The desolation sticks with me and they led me to a separate cell, then Clem and this other person that we were detained with, and these were seemingly like the remaining cells that were available in the in the whole area, because I mean it was just full up, like they were like completely a capacity with a number of people they've abducted. Clem and I are were in there for hours with mace in our in our eyes and like
no relief from that. And I remember just laying on the ground and an agent coming in pretty soon after an asshole and he was like, we've got gourmet potato and chicken and Brussels sprouts or something, and he hands me this like little plastic container with like this just this white paste or like just neat, you know, just like.
Like a microwave meal of goop.
Goop, just disgusting goop. But we were in there for a while before being taken back, and I think they took me back first, and I refused to say anything without a lawyer, obviously, they hand me a piece of paper and after reading me or by rights, and they said, actually, we need you to read these back to us to confirm that you speak English and understand English. And I
was like, weird, but okay. So I start to read it and it's all pretty normal, and then I get to a paragraph that says something to the effect of like, no knowing these rights, I waved my rights. So I was being tricked into waving my rights, which I thought I was going crazy. I did not understand at the time, and I stopped halfway through the sentence and I read it over and over and over, trying to make sense of it. And I said to them, I was like,
I don't understand what I'm being asked to read. I'm not going to keep reading this. And they were like, that's okay, we have what we need and they took it back and then I got a phone call Clempton not.
We got taken into the interrogation room and it was like too Homeland Security, I don't know, like detective or whatever. But they like opened it with saying like, I know this is all like can be a lot right now, so feel free to just like let it loose. In this room and I just like kind of looked at them,
like what are you talking about? Like it's it was jarring to go from dealing with a month of seeing only these people in masks and just like as this like horrible monstrosity of like a fascist, and then being inside of there and like seeing that command cetter of all those people working on the computers like making this whole thing work, and then all these detectives who like think they're detached from it and think that they're not a part of what's going down on the streets right
now just because they're working inside the building. And yeah,
so same thing happened. They try to ask me questions and I said I wouldn't say anything without a lawyer president, and I asked for a phone call, and they did the same thing with the rights where they were going to read them to me, and then the other detectives said, actually, we don't need to do that, and so one of them just left for a bit, and so I was just like left in the room with the like assistant detective and he just like asked me some how's your
day going question? And I just kind of dead stare at him for like twenty minutes, which felt pretty good because he was very uncomp rival and kept with just like avoiding eye contact and I don't know, it's a small amount of power you can have when you're in a cage. And I got taken back to my room and tried the intercolm and asked if I could get a phone call, and they said I'll get a phone
call after booking. So I was pretty worried about what was going to happen that Actually they said they had lawyer president and yeah, there's two real cool lawyers were there that we know and are friends with, and they explained that we'd be out pretty.
Shortly and yeah, and then we were able to get out and go home. But I feel really haunted by the fact that we were in there for maybe a handful of hours, and of course there are all these people that are stuck there that aren't going to be
able to go home the way we did. And then I took the most painful shower of my life because the water just I did the cold water thing, and my lawyer friend had warned me about it was like, you know, try not to get it in your bits, but I totally did, and it was excruciating.
One of the things we talk about on the show is how to counteract the chilling effects of oppression and just the trauma of a day like this that having violent interactions with law enforcement can cause. And I really appreciate you both sharing and going back into this experience that happened now almost exactly a month ago from when
we're recording today. I'm curious if you have thoughts on what you've learned and moving through experience, lessons you've learned that you'd want others to know about about how to move through something like this and keep getting out there. As I know you both have.
I don't really know how to move through it, but it's Yeah, I feel like it still lives in my body and that fear has definitely changed me. But it's been nice to have friends and community and there's been a lot of like free sort of like bodywork, and
I tried acupuncture for the first time, which was really nice. Yeah, just having people that have your back and knowing that, like, you're not alone in this, Like since we've been arrested, there's been hundreds of people in the same exact both as us, and Yeah, it feels good to know or not an outlier here unapologetically, unapologetically.
Myself, Like most anti ICE protesters arrested here during the surge, Clem and Ray were released pending charges, but the legal landscape is rapidly shifting. At least thirty out of the thirty five federal cases from the past two months were
charged retroactively in the past few weeks. To give you a sense of how these cases might unfold and what it's like to face these charges, you'll hear from two Minneapolis based anti ICE protesters facing criminal charges for responding to a raid at Takaia las Cuatros Muthbus that took place back on June third, twenty five. Isabel Lopez faces federal charges and Lucy faces state charges from that day.
Their June cases are still open today, and Lucy also caught federal charges after responding to an ICE raid that took place during Operation Metro Surge.
We should be socus everything.
Welcome, Isabel and Lucy. We're going to talk today about legal oppression you both are experiencing for protesting ICE in Minneapolis. But before we even start that conversation, can you both introduce yourselves your connection to the Twin Cities and share a little bit about who you are outside of the topic of today's conversation Isabelli can start with you.
Je, I'm my name is Soe Lam. I'm a community I don't know, organizer, helper, and I'm also spoken word poet. I've been writing and doing performances here in the Twin Cities for like since like twenty twenty with the whod George Ford thing? Yeah, and I've also done other organizing when it comes to the climate justice movement and also indigenous rights. I have suppotech Menzara Asis and like that's just important for me.
So yeah.
But I was born in Chicago, Rachaer in the Twin Cities.
Hi, Lucy Uh. I've been in Minneapolis since I don't know, the early twenty tens, but I lived in Minnesota forever. I mean, I've been in and out, but I feed people. I'm allowed, bitch, I'll make noises, I make songs, make good trouble.
Okay. So, you were both arrested and charged after a multi agency raid that took place back on June third, twenty twenty five at Las Quatro, Milpas, A, Mexican Tacorea in South Minneapolis. Officials still say that it was not an ICE raid and that they were executing a warrant for drug trafficking. But ICE agents were confirmed on site, alongside ten other federal agencies and local cops, and the owner of the Tacorea ended up in ICED attention. The
raid and response went pretty viral. The operation was heavily militarized, and hundreds of neighbors turned out in protest. Lisa, you were charged with three counts of obstructing, impeding, or assaulting a federal officer and a fourth count of impeding a federal investigation. And Lucy you're facing state level charges from that day and federal assault charges. I'd love to hear from you both a little bit about your experiences getting
arrested and catching charges. What do you want people to know about what that experience was like.
Yeah, so I wasn't arrested until like three or four days later because it happened on June third, and then I was rested on June ninth. It felt very planned and just like a Poppet show.
I remember.
I think it was the day after two senators from the House here in Minnesota were shot and Georgia Ford, you know, It was a really close community friend of mine. We're both from the East Side, and she called me to do an interview. I was kind of unsure about it, but she just assured me that she just wanted to hear my story, and yeah, I didn't really think much of it, and so then I went I did the interview. I was still very taking up about what happened that day.
By around like four, I think, or thick three, I was coming out and by that time in downtown, there's not a lot of things going on in Saint Paul.
It's kind of a dead city by that time, and so as I was coming out, that's when four officers came from behind me and arrested me and pushed me to the ground, and my shoulder hit the concrete and I started bleeding, and they took me in a black STV and they waited there for a second, and you know, just when Georgia came out and saw everything that was happening and started recording, and you know, from there, let
the community knew about what happened. And so after that, that's when I kind of started realizing what this administration is trying to do. And it felt very orchestrated. It felt very calculated, even after, especially after there's a lot of news about my arrest and adding my face to this whole drug rad and my case to it. So yeah, I know other people were arrested, but my arrest felt
very like intentionally and calculated and kind of racist. This is an abuse of power, and this isn't okay, Like I don't care who you are, I don't care how you see things, Like I'm like barely not even five three, five to two, and you know, these men that were huge felt the need to tackle me. This is all allegedly right, but at the same time, I think that I want people to understand that they can make their own calls and own judgment and how like this justice system isn't that.
Right now at all.
It's repression.
Am I also remembering correctly that I maybe had seen you post a video on Instagram about that raid, because I feel like my impression had also felt like maybe retaliation for you speaking out. Yeah, definitely your case feels important for people to know about. Especially in the past two weeks here in Minneapolis, twenty eight people have been charged with assault on a federal officer and are facing
federal charges. Now there was a handful before that, but we've just seen a massive spike of people who were charged after being released pending charges. So your case does feel like this test case that's being looked to is how are they going to handle this? So what's going to happen? So I appreciate you talking about it. Would love to turn to you, Lucy and hear a little bit about what you're facing and what your experience has been.
Like I think they charged me with assault and then they downgraded it to like less degree assault because it was ridiculous. Well, yeah, I would like they had like six cops tackle me, and my shoulder's never been the same. But that was that was in June. And then in another instance, I also have charges for assaulting a federal officer. Seems like they just charge everyone, you know, and like all of these legal observers are also getting docked by
the age. They're trying to raise the stakes of resisting the administration as much as possible because it is a popular movement. It's like generally popular to hate ice, but they're trying to make it as expensive and as irrevocably life destroying for US citizens as it is for people who aren't US citizens.
I think it's super important to highlight the ways in which these targeted political prosecutions are being used to raise the stakes of showing up to defend your community from abduction, from death, from surveillance and intimidation and fascist violence.
Do you know who else where was arrested that day?
There was two people arrested on June third. They were both arrested in the same interaction with a police officer. A young woman was standing in front of a police vehicle and an officer approached her like super rapidly, and then someone approached that officer, and from the video, it seems like that person ripped off a thin blue line lapel velcro from the officer, and then that officer proceeded to assault that person, and then that person was accused
of assault, and then my federal charges. The government has motioned to dismiss them, but we are motioning to dismiss them with prejudice. And during that interaction, I can't really speak to what happened between me and federal officers, but a pregnant woman was assaulted by federal officers. People were tased, people were hit with batons, and that woman had like a ICE agent on top of her for like, I don't know, a half hour. People said that she miscarried,
she was pregnant. Everyone was saying she was pregnant. She was dragged by one arm between the legs of the ICE officer. They said that she spray painted a car and that was the reason for the arrest. They also said that there was no proof of that either.
And that incident, which was one of the first immigration operations in the surge or one of the earlier ones that went pretty viral. There was a lot of coverage. It was a huge raid, big community turn out. It was also like ICE was on the wrong block and they were in a Somali neighborhood and people were mad and people were showing up and not letting them get away with it. Also, I think there was a lot
of response. My understanding was to ICE having their knee on this pregnant person's back for such a long period of time. From what I've seen in the complaint for that day. For your case, which is a public record, and I not asking you to speak to whether or not it's true or anything about it, but part of what you're being charged with is I believe de arresting that person, the pregnant person, while they were dragging her, and as a result you got assault on the federal
officer charges. So just some context for people listening for the case as we're following it. Those are the public allegations that the government has made. But it was one of the earliest federal cases during the surge and one of the earlier assault cases of this kind. So interesting to hear that it looks like it's headed for a dismissal and exciting for you, but that is the case, Isabel. There's been community mobilization to support you starting back in June.
Could you speak to what's been effective about that and what you've learned fighting these charges related to this political prosecution.
I mean, the grand scheme of things. I think that there's just been so much repression when it comes to just you know, the Brown community. We've lost Micra, which is a really dope place on like street, right across the street from like where it happened from LEAs you know, it's like raising fun so they don't close, and you know, I think I think they starts reviewing really stuff for Latino businesses, Brown businesses, they've lost like forty six million
dollars this past month. So what I'm trying to say with that is that my community is very much on the scarcity, you know, like it's almost like we're being dragged to the point. And so when my community showed up for me that day, like it just showed for me like how resilient we are and how much like it's scary, but we can't keep having other people in our communities disappear, you know, people that we can't afford.
And for my case, because I'm a US citizen, I feel very like responsible and very like wanting to like being present in community because I think that's really what I can do. I can't really like do a lot because it's a fear that like if I come into
certain spaces, am I being launched? You know, And they've kind of shown like hinting having an eye on me basically throughout this But like, you know, being present with community and being there when you know we're organizing and knowing you know, your rights and things like that, I think it's helped a lot of people in my community to one be a lot more careful, but to know that like what we're going up against and how it's a way of survival to keep going and like you know,
to have our right speed to at least grow during these times. And we've had like observer trainings, We've had
a lot of low key, smaller trainings. We're not like trying to tell too many people about it for the same reason, and for my case in particular, it's been really hard just because like a lot of people are scared and a lot of people are very intimidating to speak out and you know, advocate for what's been going on in my case, because you know, they want us to keep having this scarcity mentality and you know, being
afraid of like what's to happen, what's to come. So for me, it's just been really important for me to be with community, to be with people, and like to share my story in the small ways that I can. And you know, we've been doing phone baking campaigns and also just writing letters. They have a radar on me for sure, and know like or where I'm at, where I stand, But I also know that I have a really big community behind me, and I know it's not
just about me. It's about the fact that it's bigger about what could happen to somebody else in our community, and it's been hard, But I think it's it's you know, it's important for us to know that, like, you know, we can keep pushing and like be together in community despite all this, and so, yeah, it has been kind of hard, especially with the searge, it got even more messy, you know, just with a lot of people trying their buzz to keep their head above the water and helping
the families that they can, because a lot of families haven't been able to leave their house.
When you say we've been hosting trainings, are you referring to your support committee. You've been doing like events that are joint raising awareness about your case and also helping community get trained up. Is that what you mean?
Well, yeah, I think I mean it's one and the same. I feel like the people that I'm working with, they work and do a lot of grassroot things in the community, and so I know, me just showing up to those trainings and just talking about my case like that that helps a lot.
So it's like that.
And we've done a couple events here and there where we talk about immigration. We did one in June or no, in July. I think and like we still have said to do more things with community, to just know that, like you know, we're all we're all here in it. But it has been very intervrackering. It's been really hard just because like I don't I don't know who's watching, I don't know who's in the room, I don't know who I can trust. But I know I'm not alone.
So that's that's the best part about it.
So, yeah, there's so much intentional isolation of people facing charges. That's so much of how repression works is to isolate people, make them scared to go be in community and do important work. So thanks for continuing to show up. It's cool to hear you speak to both, like navigating the fear and continuing to show up where you can. Yeah, I'd love to hear you both speak a little bit more. I know you just spoke about this a little bit, Isabelle.
But what it's been like navigating these cases amidst the past couple months of the surge here in the Twin Cities, it's a pretty unique moment to also have these pretty high stakes cases going on, Lucy, if you want to start, it just sucks.
I mean, there's lots of ways of doing things, but like I don't want to be afraid that I need to call my pre release person every time a cop talks to me, Like I don't know, Like I not that I interact with cops all the time, but I'm in Minneapolis and like i keep talking to the probation guy about this. I'm like, you know, if a cop drives by me, is that a police interaction? If I'm on the street and the fucking fedzer in in the street in front of my house, is that a police interaction?
Like it just makes you so stressed out, Like Renee Good was shot in front of me, and it's like like normally I'm not the kind of person that runs away from a situation like that. I'm like, would go towards where what happened to like make sure people are okay, or like see if there's anything I can do. And in that situation, I was like what if I just am gonna go to jail like for trying to like
do something. So it's just like it's just contrary to my instincts that if I see someone getting brutalized in the street or they're like they say you can go to a protest. But that's just what repression is. You know, they come into your house and they look in every single room. You know that they say that you need to go and do drug tests and that you can't have a firearm, and they wanted me to have twenty
four to seven monitoring. I don't know if you have that kind of shit, but it's just like, this shit's insane, like and it's over fucking nothing. And so that's why, like I see people on the internet being like, oh, but like all those charges get dropped or whatever. I was like, then fuck you, Like you never dealt with this, Like, doesn't matter if the charges get dropped. I'm gonna try and apply to fucking Target to be a cashier and then they're gonna be like, actually, you have an active case.
I tried to work at a theater and they were like, can you come explain what happened here? Doesn't matter if you end up going to jail. Yeah, going to jail sucks. But repression is like, it's the thing in and of itself. The cruelty is the point I.
Want to hear from you toofl I just want to say for people listening that what Lucy's talking about are release conditions. So when the case is initiated against you, the government could argue that you should be held in detention while the case is ongoing, or they could ask
for conditions of release. And those are conditions that are enforced by a pre trial probation officer, like person who might come to visit your house, or you have to call when you have cop interactions, or who facilitates drug testing, depending on what your conditions are. So just some background on that for anyone who's unfamiliar.
Yeah, I think Lucy kind of said it best, was like curely questioning your instincts. You're questioning like what can you do? And I've tried my best to be as creative as I can with it. But yeah, it's it's so hard because I'm finding myself having to mobilize in a different way and like show up the community. So kind of pivoted to art, Yeah, doing things when it comes to like screenprinting and just again showing up a community and just try to play face or be face,
like be be real, you know, be with community. But yeah, it has been really hard because again, you never really know what you can and cannot say. Like the other day, I had a really good friend. They admitted a graphic for me talking about explaining my case and things like that. You know, I can't really post too much about my case people start tagging me in it. I tried resharing
one of it. I only shared like one of reshared one of the tags, and then I tried resharing another tag that kind of explained what to do to help with my case. And like Instagram, don't let me post it. You know, these are this is like minor shit, Like this isn't like that big of a deal. But it's also just like okay, like yeah, they want to make sure that you're not being seen or heard. And I'm pretty fortunate to have like a job where like they're me to do community work and they have known me,
so like I'm I feel really lucky. At the same time, it's also just been really hard because, like, you know, some people are more reluctant to have me in the room when it comes to like organizing or doing certain things because of that, because like, you know, of where my case stands, and some people have like you know, actually kind of walked away from being my friend because you know, they were also there that day on June third, and just also kind of being afraid about what would.
Happen to them.
But on the other side of that, you know, there's also been friends that are like I'm gonna be here. I'm down, like, don't don't like know you where you know, which has been great.
Yeah, don't ditch your friends like I had, like my roommate being like I'm gonna I gotta leave, like I'm gonna dip, and people being weird to you, and it's just like, I don't know, maybe you just should just be better about your like security in general, because like sooner or later, we're all going to have charges. I don't know, maybe it's not going to be that bad, but we're all domestic terrorists in Minnesota.
Now, Uh fuck.
I means as per Ice, you know, making a list and I don't know, they can't tell everybody.
It's just been really hard navigating. I I guess like the sense of morality that comes with it because it's like for me and I feel like you know, Lucy can relate to this, is that like you act on the things that you believe in, you act on the things that you know is worth participating. And now this administration is you know, gaslight. I don't even think gasline
is a right word. I think it's just like imposing a lie of just like what is right and what is wrong and seeing everybody also just being very gas lit and having you know, the news having a certain narrative of like what is right, what is wrong, what has been said, what has not been said, what really happened, what didn't happen, and also just arresting independent journalist. I think it just goes to show how much constitution has not been constituted, Like the human rights that we believed
and we thought that we have are no more. So it's like what gos and what doesn't go? You know? And I think that for me, the only real hope I have is like community and like creativity, because it's like people have shown up for me, because I've been showing up since like twenty twenty. So it's like, how can we inspire a sense of like a sense of
hope and spirit to keep going? How can we keep have people know that there is there is hope at the end, that you know that there can be another side that right now what we're seeing is just another world unfolding and the only way that we can really understand that new world is when we understand the truth
that we've been walking on. And so my friends have been so good to me, and some of them have been you know, they've made like graphics and really cool like it's it's my face on it, just a way to like, you know, welcome me home and things like that, and creating different images of like what this new world
can be. And you know, one thing that I did with some of the NDI and collective, we made this really dope graphic that says Motherland on it and it's all the Americas having roots from the global South, you know, and being supple thick like has been really like so key for me to know that, like I have every
right to be here. That like a lot of the legitimacy that is constituted quote unquote for me, that doesn't come from for me, that's not my truth of like why I move and why I believe to do is write to me, I do what is right because of the history that I come from, because of like you know, who my dad is, and like the people that I know that I come from. You know, I'm not like native to the northern Plains. But I do have friends that are, and I do respect and love them so much.
Where I want to see the traditions be fully and thrived. And I know that my power and my liberty is tied with theirs. And I know that we like have every right to be here from the people that are from the Global South as well, because of the fact that we haven't been able to like fully thrive in the motherland. We haven't been fully thrived in all the Americas. And you know, a lot of people don't want to immigrate. A lot of people don't want to migrate, they don't
want to leave their motherland. But I know that we have built homes here, we have built communities here, and I think that for me, that that's the other side of it, is that we can we can thrive, and that we can be in this place together, that we have every right to like bad in this constant last night together. We are America.
So yeah, I also just want to ask what support asks you have for listeners, either for your defense campaigns or for anti ice organizing more broadly.
Yeah, for me, we're having people call in to Daniel Rose to draw the charges and to send in letters that's our community ask. And also to donate to the go funder. Yeah, I'm finding myself needing more support when it comes to just getting people on the side and just yeah, getting people also sustained through the movement as well through that. So yeah, donate to my gounfund me. And also if they can, it's in an letter call in and yeah.
I'll just say, yeah, talk to everyone. You can talk to your neighbors, talk to your relatives. It should be impossible for them to convict anything in Minnesota because no jury is sympathetic with these people. And the only way that happens is if there's a broad understanding of the violence that is being perpetuated in our communities and a broad support of those that are resisting it.
Well, I know you both have shared the importance of creating of work for you, Isabelle, do you have a poem you'd like to read or anything you want to share?
Yeah, I can read a poem real quick, since I can't really speak much about what happened that day, I wrote this. When I walked outside, I saw I staring back at me, cold presence stirring an earthquake in my body.
Do I freeze?
Or do I run? I asked myself. Do my parents have the time to ask themselves this when they left the motherland? If I run, I might slip into its breue arms and be caught by its cages. If I freeze, will it drown out all the warmth of my family? Let inside of me? Will the couffing freeze the southern sun and my blood veins? Just to be as numb as them? The cold thrives in control. The order of
ignorance can thrive in an unconscious and vulnerable pride. I never thought their hands could be as brown as mine, as young as mine, as desperate for safety that it folds into another version of insanity. The wrong ice is melting and the warmth of brown and black bodies are freezing. Can I walk back into the pattern of survival? My lineage taught me to flourish instead of freezing in the numbing of society.
Wow, thank you? Does that have a name? Yeah?
It's ice or ice freeze something like that.
Maybe I lamb unapologetically, unapologetically myself.
We recorded this episode in the first half of February in twenty twenty six. It's March now, So here's a couple updates since recording, eight of the federal defendants have had their charges dismissed and many have been offered misdemeanor deals. We also now know that there are over one hundred protesters facing state level charges, mostly misdemeanors. The aftermath of repression in the form of criminal cases from this time will likely continue for years, if not decades to come.
And another update, thousands of agents have left the Twin Cities. I get to see my neighbors out of their houses a little more often now, but daily life is still colored by ongoing abductions, disappeared family members, and shock waves of state violence that have hit our migrant neighbors. I know I said it in the beginning, but just to say it to close. As much as there is devastating violence and terror happening here, there is incredibly magnificent resistance
and community connection happening. Every single day. Neighbors are showing up and stopping abductions, They're watching people get killed in the street for doing it, and they're showing up the next day to continue. There's a kind of fearlessness and a kind of love that is in this community that I've never seen anywhere else. So as much as things are horrible, things are also beautiful. And I want you to know that. The theme music you heard in this episode was the song Star by twofa one a Dakota
and bariqua artist based out of Minneapolis. Check out their other.
Music from the South Everywhere.
If you liked this episode, check out the show Outlaw wherever you get your podcasts, throw us a rate review, and follow Outlaw pod on Instagram and Blue Sky. To close the episode, here's a song written in Minneapolis during the surge. I think it captures some feeling of being here.
Just as.
Never broad someone back from the dead, just as never proud someone back from the dead, just as never broad someone back from the dead, just as never bride someone.
Back from the dad.
Just that.
Never brod someone back from the dead.
Way are you telling me wait like someone will be saved?
Are you telling me?
Are you telling me.
That justice were somehow saved?
Never gonna get back their days?
It could happen.
Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can now find sources where it could happen here listen directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.