It Could Happen Here Weekly 211

As media.

Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.

I conducted interviews for this series in Spanish and French. Then I transcribed them and translated them, and we had voice actors read them. So when you're listening to this, please remember that everything you're hearing in English was recorded another language, and it's through the lens of my translation that you're hearing these people's words. As we always do, we have included the sources for this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a link to Primroses Legal

They said, no, yes, option, we need to take you. But you know, for me, I had to take it.

It's because.

I was scared to stay in Mexico. So they took us with under the bridge, I think the sewage. We were walking with our stomach like under the bridge to get to USA and Mexican borders. So they put ladder for us to your us. Those people, when they saw American immigration came, they just removed the ladder and me, I was on top, so I had yeah, I was stuck. Then I had no choice, and the kim Balish was crying like calm, let's go, let's go.

At that time, I knew nothing about it. But her daughter Kim had already jumped. As a Biden presidency drew to a close. But before Trump began signing executive orders with pens, he tossed into the crowd. She'd made it to the US. Her mum was in the US as well the walls inside the border, but the people who had helped it get up to the top of the war had fled when border patrol arrived, taking their ladder

Yeah, I'm going there. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to Nadist.

Do you have family, yeah, no, you just make your American life.

It's okay.

I think I'm just trying. No, it's only me and my daughter.

Despite this, they had found community on the journey. I can't describe how scary it must be for two women to set out on this journey alone. It takes an awful lot to embark on that journey and to be able to trust people when everyone is a potential threat. But if there's one thing I learned in a jungle, it's in the hardest times and the hardest places, the only way forward is together. Primos reminded me of this, telling me how complete strangers had helped her.

Very nice, especially the Spanish people.

They are very nice.

I don't want to life was if you need help, you forgot them for your Look the other ones they might run away by the other ones.

They just for your They.

Even give us tablets on the road, give us energy drinks, give my daughter sweets for enage. They push us like, let's go, guys, let's go, let's go. You make it, and we really make it.

Yeah, yeah, that's really nice to hear. I asked Primrose a question I asked everyone there. What did she hope for when she got to America? What was her American dream? What do you hope for her in America? What do you want to do in America.

I want to go to school, then she can I see something in life. I don't wish my daughter to go big to sam Or.

No, yeah, not at all. No, it's very hard.

Yeah, it's really really Towrogate Gradi.

I saw them a few days later, Las Blancas Afred sat with a group of little Venezuelan children playing a game where we throw bottletops into a broken half cinder block. We talked about the struggle they face to pay for the bus north, and we didn't record anything that day, but as I was leaving for the evening, Kim asked

Now.

That's what strong borders means. It means brave little girls disappearing so a politician who knows nothing of their struggles can point to a statistic. I've listened to the interview I conducted with them so many times since last September. I still can't really work out anyone with a heart could hear that and think they wanted to live in a world where that little girl wasn't safe. But that's what people voted for. I guess I don't think they did. Actually,

There are.

I didn't want to cry because I didn't want her to see me cry. But sometimes I would explode because it's hard for your child to ask you for water, to ask you for food, and you don't have any to be in a place where you walk. You walk from five in the morning, it's five in the afternoon. You're walking, you don't know what to do, going through more than one hundred rivers and asking God not to rain and not wanting it to get worse. It rained and the girl got a fever. She got a fever.

I don't want to dwell on this too long because talking in public about grief is something I'm bad at. One of my friends died fighting in Ukraine this year. A colleague died just weeks before we'd planned a trip together. Some of my Burmese friends died fighting. But even as someone who talks to soldiers for a living, nothing really compares to the death toll inflicted by the US border regime. The little village in England where I grew up, there are memorials in every town a village for the young

I think I spent seven days in Banamah. What's short with money? So I went into immigration trying to ask them if you can they can help me to take a bus to Costa Rica, of which they say, no, you have to pay your sixty dollars you're in your daughter, which one to India?

So I pay that?

So I ask you people man, the people I know, they helped me with money. So from Banama we took a bus from Banama to Costa Rica.

This is a very common story. People borrow money from a huge range of friends and relatives along the way they hope to get to the US, work hard, and be able to pay it back. The whole process takes every penny they've earned in their life and generate significant amounts of debt. In most cases. This is made worse by the fact that on arrival they will wait months, if not years, for work permit, and their immigration judge could stop the clock on this at any time for

Yeah, to Nicaragua. Then in Nicaragua, I think we walk from Costa Rica border to Nicaragua border. Then we walk again. I think it was it was walk from yeah to Nicaragua bars tam in Us.

We just walk. Then we when we reached.

There, we paid again to wander Us. Then there's also place we walked from Hondas. From nicarag got to wander Us by Steminas. I think it just was the old day. Then from wander Us Guatemalam. Yeah, in Guatemala we spent it three days again because it was tough Guatemala. People they really need asking for a lot of money. So my life was like asking people, asking people and do it and do it? Reach Mexico.

Then exhausted and broke, she in came made it to Mexico. That you only began in Zimbabwe and took them from there to South Africa, then to Brazil and across the continent. Now they had just warn more country to go before they made it. But I say, where to find out this one country is the one that so many migrants don't make it out of.

Then in Mexico, my life was like in this because the day we charging a lot of money in In fact, when we reach Mexico, we reached Tapatola and not before Tapatola, I just forget the name. So they took us in the bush where.

We paid money.

Again, when we paid money, they started seaching us. If we don't live CAUs, then they walk with us. It was two of midnight. They walk with us till they get a transport to take us to Tapatola. So when I reached Tapatola, I you know people. We were giving information to each other. So I was also following other people, like from Cameroons in Venezuela. So when we reached Tabachelo, we reached Tarpacholo on the ted of October twenty twenty four.

Tapatula in the south of Mexico. It's where thousands of migrants sent up. The Mexican government that had a policy of trying to keep people there and began offering them free bus rides north. They had a CBP one appointment. But unlike places like Tijuana, where there have been migrants gathered for many decades, there are not as many services in Tapatula, and the shelters and services that exist there

Then the agents charged us four thousand each, which is me four thousand in the main twitter four thousand of which I was I wasn't lift that month other people that we're paying. So I just talked to the agent. Then I said, okay, you please go down a little bit because I'm a single party. And then I don't have anyone to help me with that kind of money. Then he said, okay, three point five. So I started asking people because the people I know, maybe they can

They took us.

So they took us to the to the bush which is Guajaradella. I can't even remember, is it. Yeah, I think so. I spent day from October up to January.

In the background here you're here splashing. That's came playing in the pool. A little apartment complex where they were living in East La I just common for migrants to share a flat with someone else. Didn't have much in the way of furniture. But the last time I saw primaries came. It was by the Tuquessa River in Last Plancas. There, the brown water was something to be afraid of. Migrants died crossing the river every day, away by the fast moving water and relying only on strangers to hold them

My daughter.

She was strong, she was strong, but she was crying also, but she had what wound all over the body. Even me, I was crying myself. I was like, I want to just put myself in the water, then I can just go. The Jane was tough, really really tough. The mountain, the stores, the river.

It's not easy.

It Oh, it's not a very I don't even recommended someone to say you use that and give no. And even myself I did know about it. Yeah, I was regretting myself.

I was crying.

I was like, God, I don't know my family and my family they don't know where I am right now.

Back in Los Angeles, primers told me that she'd fallen in the river and two Venezuelan men had jumped in to pull her and came out total strangers on their own journey, had risked their lives to help a woman and child who didn't know, with whom they couldn't even speak. The river kills people who drink it too. The concentration of human waste and human remains in the water makes it incredibly dangerous to drink, even for people dying of thirst.

They were kid nipping me they were asking for fifteen thousand dollars each. They said, you're not going to take you. I think I was.

Crying, Kim. She was also crying.

The other people they will get money paid and leaves, I think from my group. For the people they were kids nipping. It was only me left in the Kim and I was crying depression. I think of him, but I tried. I tried, you want to escape, run away? I feel down and my leg was something else. I didn't even go to hospital. My leg was swollen, and the way they would treat us it was paid, especially when I came the other one once touching me the whole board like. I was like, please, if you want

Primrose understandably had trouble even recounting this story. It's not the sort of memory that's easy to share. But just when things seemed to be beyond repair, when it seemed like there was nothing to hope for it was Kimberly who came through to help her mom.

Yeah, they no, So Kim Malish was like, uh, lending Spanish, so she was understanding some of the winds.

So she's just telling me.

This guy also was like, why can't you leave this woman because she doesn't live money. Because those people they took my phone, they even break it in front of my eyes. The fhe I was heaving from Africa.

Kim Spanish was pretty good by the time I met them in Los Angeles this summer. Went out for dinner and I asked him what she'd liked to eat. She said she wanted to try seafood and practice her Spanish. So we went to a Mexican seafood place complete with cabaina decord taxi dirmy fish on the wall, and the waitress kindly helped Kim order in Spanish, patiently showing her different menu items and smiling is Kim read them off.

I think on January seven or fifth, I don't remember. Then they just took us. Then they just doumbus. I don't even know. Then a star I saw an immigration immigration officer with the guy with the car. Then I stop him. Then I translate to ask him to Then they said, okay, get inside the car. They took us to immigration, so we get a pass from there to another town. Because I was like shifting, shifting, shifting, asking

Yeah, yeah. Do I get to te Joanna?

So we get to John on the trendred of Chanuy. So I just asked the Mexicans people. Then there's a guy also said okay, I would try to help you, but you need to pay ye. Then I said I don't leave money. Said if you don't leave money, we

In between November and January, non stop roomors circulated in giant whatsap groups. Trump was closing the border, Biden was opening it. Most migrants didn't have the means to get to the southern border even if they tried. CVP one remained mostly useless, and people spent days, weeks, months refreshing it to no avail. Those who did get appointments would find them canceled once a new administration came into office.

Then they took us to the boat to the border, but we couldn't get in the gates while they were closed. Then they said no, we have an option. We need to take you. But you know, for me, I had to take it risk because I was scared to stay in Mexico. So they took us with under the bridge, I think the sewage. We were walking with our stomach like under the bridge to we get to USA and Mexican borders. So they put ladder for us to help us to but we paid them three fifty three fifty.

They charge.

I found the other people they also we were fifteen years We were fifteen. Yeah, then the yop us to jump.

The departy.

Some of us are illegal and some are not wanted. Our work contracts out and we have to move on six hundred miles to that Mexico border. They chase us like outlaws and rustlers, like thieves. Goodbye I one, goodbye.

Rosalidados and egos, Jesus and Maria. You won't have a name when you ride the big airplane, and all we will call.

You will be departy.

On the twenty eighth day of January nineteen forty eight, a plane took off from Oakland, California. On board with a crew, an Immigration Nationalization Service officer, and twenty eight people who had come to the US to work in the Brasero program. They were being sent to Elcentra, where they were to be deported to Mexico. The pilot, Frankie Atkinson, had found a job flying DC three's as a civilian after flying the legendarily dangerous Hump route between India and

Father's old father.

He waited that river.

Other before him have done just the same.

They died in the hill, and they died.

In the valley, somewhere to heaven without any name. Goodbye to my one good prose a leader adius me amvil presusbody else.

You won't have a name.

When you ride the big airway.

All they will call you will leader. Before the twenty five men and three women aboard came to the US to fill labor shortages after World War Two as a result of an agreement between the two states called the Brassero Program. The Mexican government didn't want to lose its whole agricultural workforce. I wanted to ensure that workers in the US would send a portion of their wages home, so it held these wages in accounts, which some of

Johnny Cash, I understand this is a true story. This is from our album The Highwayman. Jona Rodriguez was on an album as well. On this song, you understand it is a true story what it got wrote this about a plane crash in was it Los Bato's Canyon, taking a plainload of Mexicans back after they worked for whatever they could get in this country. It's one of those old stories about malfreedment of aliens.

One of those old stories. He says, it seems so hopeful in nineteen eighty seven, like we wouldn't be writing anymore because most people could accept that nobody should treat other people like that. Anyway. That was before country music was entirely dominated by boot liquors. And here I am playing it to you again, eighty years after it was written, because it is still relevant. Dolly Parton's singing it.

My father's own father, he waited that room. They took all the money he made in his life.

My brothers and.

Sisters come working the fruit trees. They rolled the truck till they took down down. The airplane caught fire over Lascatto's Canyon, a fireball of lightning that shook all he who are these dear friends are scattered like dry leys. The radio set. They weren't yes, the poem.

Good Night tom.

I as a song puts it. The bodies of the workers were scattered like dry leaves across Los Gatos Canyon. The bodies of those twenty eight people, the parts that were recovered, were buried in a mass grave at the Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno, mark later thanks to a donation with a small plaque calling the Mexican nationals, although one of them was also Spanish. The hard work of finding these people's names was taken up by people not

Yeah, that's you, to be honest. Even now, I feel it's embarrassing me because when I was in Texas, like if I made people they say, are you not the one will feel downe For me, it's like something else because I was not a appie for the person who put me in social media. Even even when I go to the comments, some of the comments were paid and the other people they don't even know what was really happened to me. I was running for my life. But people they just come into whatever they want. So that

That's why.

Uh, the other people they went to my mom and started torture DA because they they taught maybe I'm in country, but because of that video, they went to disturb my mom. She's not even where I grew up now in the or she just move. She's somewhere else now. So I don't even know who posted the video, and.

I think I need to.

I don't know what to get it, buddy, I'm very angry with the personal all posted the video. Maybe they should maybe asking me, or to find me, or to hide my face in the way Kim malistay my daughter when you ask you about the video, she cries to be honest, just.

Like those people who died in the plane crash. Promos reserves better. I first saw the video of her falling on TikTok. I think I feel like it was shared by the Wall Street Journal, but I haven't been able to locate the post again. Where I saw a friend, someone else saw a way to make a bug. It's a kind of extractive reporting that I spent my whole career trying not to replicate. The Times and plenty of other outlets have what they see is high standards of

It's not like we just it's a luxury to come to America for beggars. If I wanted to come to America for bigger I would maybe go and apply for the visa.

But us is a.

Youth is people who wants to change our country. They don't even make you to find a way to go to make a visa because the zimbabwe Zee a tough country, especial for us young people, young generation. They can even kill you in Simbabwe. We can't even protesting for our rights in Simbabwe because we skied for the government is running the country, which is NPF. We are really scared. I if people, a lot of people lose a lot of friends. Kidney killed me also in Zimbabwe, they even

Nothing.

If you want to stay in the ends for your rights, they tortured you, killed you disappear. There's a lot of people will disappear in Szimbabwe just before see your needs to change.

Under Mugabe, Zimbabwe experience rapid economic decline and hyperinflation at various times. Mugaby has blamed his own form of colonial powers, which is reasonable and a quote gay mafia, which is what you get when you have a single manachar to your state, ruling by whim from the moment of liberation until just two years before his death from rus Like many in her country, like many people from all over the world, wanted a better future. It was something she

Especially in South Africa. People are killed with Sonofobia. People are killed, you know, so it's not also even safe for us to stay in South Africa.

That's why, especially in me. To be honest, the Jena was not even planned.

I was just asking people and when I reached brass people, they were just talking, let's godless, collless. But I was also following those people do I get here? So it's not like we came here for luxury or for what.

For me.

I just came here for my life. I just ran for for my life.

I just need my life in my daughter's life, because if I died today, I don't know if anybody can look after my daughter, especially when in my country, because things are tough for my mom.

Of course, my father just disappeared.

What people can't easily travel around the world. Concept like xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, homophobia. They're not just American issues. They're global issues. And that's why we say nobody's free until everybody's free.

We just grew up in a.

Poor family. So but it's tough to be honest. It's a relative.

For me.

I'm not even one hundred percent, Okay, I'm still lots of memories trace Yeah, and I remember one of my friends, her name was Memory. She died also, we were together, died in the Zimbabwe when they kidnaped us for five days.

So she just died. Listen to us twenty twenty twenty TWENTYA.

She just died.

Because we were fighting for our future.

Yeah, but.

It's tough.

Yeah, he's me talking to Primrose on that river bank about but why she left South Africa.

I'm just flying. No, it's only me and my daughter.

Yeah.

Was it hard to see a future for her there?

It's very hard.

Explain the situation there.

The.

Situation where in where the situation for me, it was tough. I just ran away to South Africa. In South Africa was not safe. Solophobia and uh, they almost secure me and my boyfriend and even my my big father was abusive too much. Because of the politics. I'm opposition party, So it was now even in South Africa, I was not safe at all. It was those people. They were like following me and my daughter. So I spent three

I'm still walking.

Yes, that was September. She finally entered the USA in January, crossing into a very different country than the one she'd set out for. Her story is unique. Every migrant story is, but it's not unusual. He spent as much time talking to migrant society. You will learn a lot about the hardships regular people face all over the world. You'll also learn about the dreams people have and how little they really differ. Let's take, for example, the protest we recently

Yeah, because it's not safe in my country. That's why I want to go to the States, because there is right and freedom.

Yeah, what makes it not safe in your country?

Yeah?

There are many political reasons. Yeah, and I am from a different political like Congress. Okay, I'm from Congress. That's a small member, not a big plans to man, but that Opposit party, you know, yeah, they won, they won the.

Constitution.

So yeah, so they think you uh yeah, Okay, if you wanting how someone come from the mountains in Nepal to a small village in the Panamanian jungle and to be briefly sharing a tiny room with people from Venezuela, Cameroon, China, and Bolivia, all seeking the same thing.

His hell, I took a plan from Nepal to Dubai, he said, there two months, okay.

Then after that I went to Qatar.

Yeah.

From Qatar, I went to Brazil. I stayed in Refusiician for at least two weeks, yeah.

Yeah.

Then after that I came out from Brazil, took a bus, then traveled for two much a long time, maybe twenty four hours or twenty five hours.

Wow.

Ye.

Then I went to I caught some friends. They took me to Bolivia. We need to cross through jungle, but it was small, not a long way.

Yeah, it was good.

And after Bolivia I took the ride to bus. I took at least maybe forty eight hours in a bus.

Yeah.

Wow.

Man. Then I went to the border of Peru and there was some boat to take us across, and I went across to Peru, stayed in a hotel that night. Then after that it came out and again wrote the bus for twenty six hours to Lima. Then after Lima again twenty six hours to Tulcan. Then after Tulcan, I got a taxi and that taxi was to cross the border to equad Okay, and so I went to Effader in that taxi and they came Cousino.

Well yeah, we stayed for two to.

Three hours in the hotel. Then at night again traveling wow. Then again traveled to Colombia. After Colombia, rode another bus and rode to Colombia and Panama borders to Nicoli. Nicoli to Nicoli and we stayed maybe one week in Nicoli. After that, I took a board to or from Kapurana.

Uh.

There was some bikes. The pike took us to a camp at the border.

Oow.

At the camp, I raised nearly at six pm.

Then after some people came there and they were responsible to cross the border to Panama.

Then we walked to at nine pm. We walked through May. We walked to till here forty four hours.

Wow.

Yeah.

I asked a Nuke what he had to say to people in America, because he had excellent English and I have this platform to share. He was more than aware of the US just course her own migrants, and he said he'd been watching videos about it.

Well, that's everyone is human being. Yeah, yeah, because we have some problems, so we need to live our country right.

Yeah, we need to be.

Kind to each other. Yeah, we need to be kind. Yeah.

I haven't heard from Minuke since then. I have no idea where he and his friends are or how the journey across three continents ended. Like so many other migrants, he disappeared for me in the massive humanity heading north. I still think about all the people I haven't heard from. Sometimes I'll see people who look like them and I'll get excited. But if they're in the USA now, they're

Yes, the situation there in Bolivia right now, we're practically economically well, we're in very bad shape. It's kind of like Venezuela. What motivates me to travel is more than anything work because there you can't work, you can't earn enough, you know, you have to work a lot, but they pay you very little, you know, so there's a lot of a lot of poverty. So that's what motivates me to keep going to work in another country, to migrate,

I asked her to share her journey. How have been just to get this little wet village that welcomes people in the middle of the jungle.

We left Friday morning to go to the jungle. Right, Well, let me explain honestly, it's not easy. It's very hard because I've seen quite a few people. There are many pregnant women, there are women with children. There are elderly people, there are adults. There are people who come with crutches. There are people who break bones if they're feet fall

More or less.

There were about two hundred of us, if I'm not mistaken, we are about two hundred people, one hundred and fifty two hundred people traveling and sleeping there. We camped two hundred of us. Yes, there are children. There are babies two months old, one month old, three months old.

One year old.

So there are children, and they are really the ones who suffer the most on this journey. Yes, So that night we slept. The next day, which would be Saturday, we came back again at six in the morning. We set off walking all day. We had to climb hills. We had to cross rivers that come up to your shoulders, up to your neck. They really come up. There are quite a few rivers. There's mud, there are mountains. There are those rocks that you slip on and die. There

It's very hard, it's very difficult.

And I know that all of us who immigrated here are doing the same thing. We are not bad people. We are good people. We do it for a purpose which is our family, right, our children. We need a good economy to support our family, our children.

But I asked rays if there was a dream that kept her going.

Yes, I have a dream to go there because just like everyone else, like every person, I need to get ahead financially to provide for my children, to get ahead. So my dream has always been to be there. You know, I set that all for myself before, but I didn't think it would be like this, so difficult. And once you're in there, well there's nothing you can do but get out, move forward, get out of there, because you can't go back, you can't retreat.

You have to get out.

So my dream is that to provide for my children. I have two sons waiting for me, I have my family and my dad and my brothers. So for that reason we set off to go there. We are still going there.

The American dream is such a nebulous concept. Often it's used as a byword for exceptionalism and the idea that the US offers a true meritocracy. You were, hard working people can thrive in the marketplace of ideas that isn't true. But dreams don't have to be true, not they have to be that far fetched. Most people come into America, no,

Why am I meaning me, me me?

It could be an a par of thousand euros.

A Caroline, Animia.

Acidia, Amidia h for Rose, Miami and Primrose and the dozens of other migrants I met in the jungle. The goal was to get here. Some of them had friends they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep

So there are no new asylum cases. In other words, people who cross at the southern border are now detained, only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible, under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the

So whereas people used to get credible.

Fear interviews or were parolled into the United States to be allowed to fight an asylum case, none of that is happening anymore. And people are, if anything, only screened for what's called Convention against Torture screenings to just determine, like, hey, are they going to be tortured by their government or with the acquiescence of their government if they returned to their home country. But even then they are not allowed to remain in the United States or fight any relief

For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better. First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out of unmarked vehicles to grab people, many of whom were migrants, and detain them. In most cases, these were federal agents from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI, the ATF, and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to support ICE.

In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the order of the judge along with a notice that primos should self deport.

So judges are.

Sending out these notices with routine other orders in cases where the immigrant has counsel is fighting their case.

It's obvious they're fighting their case.

Yeah, So it's one of the things where you just feel very strongly this administration's influence.

Are they obliged to do that or is that a choice that the judge is made. No, not at all.

It's it's okay, not at all, and in fact it's completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is taking a different approach to it. Some are filing motions to recuse, telling the judges, hey, you need to recuse yourself. You're you're a non neutral judge. To send this up out in the middle of the case is absurd. It's a due process violation. They're entitled to a neutral judge.

Think just one of the many areas where things are not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted rules and even court orders, sent migrants to hoard Salvador's megaprisons that god a place where torture is routine and where few people have ever left. They attempted to bring criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime.

Did you get hit?

You're okay? I'm going to that tree on the right.

Yeah.

After getting off the train in LA, and before I met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together, I walked around Olverda Street, grabbed a coffee, and spoke to some of the local folks. There were tags all over the walls and windows of the buildings around the train station, but that's always been how LA has expressed itself. All I heard from people I met there was support. One man expressed to me that his anxiety made protests very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad to see

I mean, my family, they're you know, susceptible to all the ice rays and stuff like that, and you know, being a citizen here, I feel like it's my duty to come out here and you know, speak out and know for those who can.

It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the future they might both have I sincerely hope that one day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and just by everything, be strong enough to stand up against state violence. Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that far away. They had a check in with ICE at the DTLA federal building that day, and as they rode by in a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said

So INA Section two thirty five applies to people who entered within less than two years, Like you said, they can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That means that they have to take a credible fear interview and be detained, and that they only get to fight a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They do not qualify for an immigration judge bond, so they only get out if ICE lets them out, which of

The hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now working for whatever Primrose could fundraise able to help them make their case. They left with another heroic schedules. Soon after, they decided to move to La to stay with another friend after the housing situation in Texas fell through. They were living in East LA when they had their next ice checking.

Yeah, I was living an appointment and you said they went back to get some documents and they made you wake out. Yeah, yeah, I went there, I think around af eight two four pm. At first they came and give me my papers. They said, go to chat with which is close to where you stay. Then too came here in La downtown. So when I walk away, I realized there was no other documents.

Then I woke.

I go big.

I said to Kim, I let's go big inside. Then I go to the reception. Then I asked the lady and she was the ruder it first. Then She took my documents, then said, oh okay, let me go and find it. Three hours, four hours, not big. Then she came in and called me, I think four pm. Then the ice officer is just telling me I'm going to Detainia. I said, oh why, I said, oh, we are going to explain more.

We are going, I said, oh, okay.

Like thousands of other migrants who are trying to do as they're asked, Primros has detained her check in along with Kim. Previously, she'd been given ice check ins in Riverside despite living in East LA. I'd helped her navigate the four and a half hour bus route to get there on time. Wondered how on earth, someone who doesn't have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's expected to do this. She went out of her way to make sure she was there and she had her

Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting.

Not even.

One Ice officer comes to me nothing.

I was just sitting And the other thing, they just took my phone same time they switched it off. Then I said, can I tell even one of my friends, maybe they they are worried, and now said no, no, we are going to give you a phone. Later on I said, okay, So in Sanna they took us in a hotel to sleep. Then the following day they took big us to Sundernard Detention Center, not even one officer. I was being asking the securities. They said, we don't

I even asked you, did I do something well? She said no.

I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE agents managing their non detained docket, as opposed to those enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with the officers who do their check ins and they can't understand why other officers working for the same organization would detain them even though they're doing exactly what they're asked

Then, said Duyev lawyer. I said yes.

Then she said okay, it's fine, so she'd give me another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are going to detain me. Then I ask you for how long they are I don't think you guys will you are going and going to stay more than fourteen days? Made less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of

Off, and.

The ice officer, the ice officer the bother I was gaving a GPS. So my GPS was off for the way phoning. Uh the person way up to me in Texas looking for me. Then he also replaced, I'm also looking for you. I don't even know where she is.

Yeah.

So people they were worried, maybe I will someone kidnap you. Something happened to me.

Yeah, yeah, so you and another ice officer is also looking for you.

Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were even sending messages on their up yeah, yeah, asking where are you charge your GPS? And the other ice officer was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said, oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor. Then she cut the GPS.

She cut it off.

They know we Spain. I think one hour it was around saving. Then they said okay, or there someone is coming to take you and your daughter, So to take you somewhere which is safe with your child. I ask a way those people they said, we don't know, we don't know. Then I said, oh okay. Then they searched me. They said, do you want to take your big They said no, no, it's fine. I can ask if someone because I know I was saving, I'll was key for the apartment.

Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear a GPS and tag part of ices Alternatives to Detention program. There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the Intensive Supervision Parents program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions A Geogroupsubsidiary ICE AP as it's known, includes an app through which people can check it, as well as the GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor GPS and

Maybe they are going to depot to me. I can't go with the keys. Then they took my big so I'll gry. I'm going to put somewhere after one hour, they took us to Lax Airport. They put us in a hotel. It was around twelve year twelve feear that time. Indeed, they said, okay, so when you can nave a shower, then you can nave a nap. So me I was in the shower in the kimber.

She was.

Already on the bed sleeping. Then the lady came in said, make fast, we are going to We want to go back to pick another person where we came from. Ah, then I wake, I awake him.

She was crying. She was like, I want to.

Sleep because she was leaving headache. Then they said no, no, no, it's okay, let's go, you're going to sleep where we are going. We spent the one night.

Up and down.

We came back again to La Downtown to pick another guy with his side with his son. Then they took us to San Diego Airport. I think we arrived there. I think it's five am to take the flight to San Antonio takes us. Then after that and then the other lead she was rude. The other one she was nice, she was fine. The other one, if you ask her, she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet. Then I think at the airport, we spent three hours sitting.

She just remind you something. Yeah.

So yeah.

The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities. It limits the time they can be held to twenty days, and established minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement

Time first week?

It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah, even the food me, I wasn't even it. It was very hard for both of us. But you know, kids, she was like used to to.

Primos called me a few times from detention. I pick up the phone to a robot voice and the number would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I had an idea of what it could be. Yet another connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas. I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to

And the way.

The other thing is like those people they were, especially in their room, they put me, all of them, they were Spanish, and me, I do anything understand the Spanish. I even asking the ice officer, can you please maybe because there's another lady also two ladies I think Africans. We were only four families, so we even ask them can you put us in one room so that we can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know, kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report

I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up serving as translators for each other because the agency that is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often, people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language. They have a colonial relationship with Other times there's just nobody to help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily,

Then the ice officer I started crying, like then they took me to psychologist and then they said no, no, it's okay. I think I even spent three days that side. They removed me in their room, then they put me back. So Kimbleage was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you see olping me or Mammy they said this, and that,

And then it's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrants and ice facilities were often incredibly bored. I've heard of some of them trying to teach yoga or share stories, but for the most part, they're so afraid and isolated that they are forced to sit with their anxieties day after day. I can't imagine what this is like for parents. They have to try and maintain their own mental health and take care of their children.

But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time goes.

Oh yeah, because I remember one day we went to place. We went to the gym to play I think Soca with game. I just fell down. I just felt down. They took me to hospa to I think I spent I think three hours then I wake up.

Yeah.

Yeah, because I think it's depression. So they put me in depression pills to get it out. Yeah, because my bibi was high every time and ever time different time. Yeah.

But I asked my ice officer about my case.

Then she just replied, I'm just waiting for us to close your case and we can start for asylum.

So I was just sitting doing nothing.

Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ice officer would come by and she would be able to ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the only point in her week when she might get some good news or at least some news about what was happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went.

Yeah, there was ice.

Officer was very loud, to be honest, everyone just walk away without and the people they were crying, complaining. Then it was like I went to him, straight to him. I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey,

In her lowest moment, Premier said she felt like giving up. Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would do anything to get away from the hell of the detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people. The Kible reminded her what they'd come all this way for.

Because when I was in detention, there's a time I was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh he's cream.

She said, no, people, they are going to kill you. If you want to go back. Oh, it's fine. It's up to you.

If you want to go, die, go not to me, sign your paper, not to my paper. You must sign yours then you can go. Don't sign my name. No, I do rather stay a year because I know people, because there's a lot of people happening in the a ice, especially in my country. Also, so she still remember everything.

The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ye attention. It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to force people into breaking, into signing those papers, into getting sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However, the tenacity that bought Primroses far I hadn't left her, and she made sure to let them know she was not willingly going back.

Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't care even if they kill you, I don't even care. You have to take a reform and sign if you are attacked. Then I said, okay, at listen, tell me my kiss. Cause when they teached me, was like, everyone was asking me, wait, did they catch you?

I explained.

The other officer was like, so did they know, I said, I don't even know the name, but that officer, he was very rude.

I don't care. Do you think I cay.

I don't even care whether you go big to your country, whether they killed is none of my business.

I gave my family.

Oh so people were they were like shouted him, those spanishes, They were even crying, shouted him. He just walk away and believe us, So people just also starting to walk away, go around. We even writing not we prove like a complaint, but no one even coming.

Your person? Do they day? They just come and call me. They are going to listening.

Katered spent weeks calling, emailing and demanding the premieres on Kimberly be treated according to the rites under the Floorida settlement. I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause. It was the only option we had, and I was happy to Kimberley and like so many others in that detention center, had someone to fight for her. In fact, she had hundreds of people. People all across the country had donated to her legal aid fund. Here in San Diego, people put on shows and took collections to pay for her

They listening on the tenth Yeah, remember you called me the fund the food. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly.

Before you were going to get out that week, but they took longer and long.

Good.

Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but she still faced the same difficulties she had before. Primrose could not legally work. She was still in La where border patrol and a baveno but conducting violent raids and people accused of no crime other than crossing the border between ports of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly still hadn't received her education, So that was July and I were in August. Now, yeah, you said, you know, work permit still hasn't come, right.

Yeah, They clear everything. I was supposed to get my week permit on July July, but they clear everything like new everything. They just clear everything's all studying August.

Yeah, November, now there's still no permit. His case in explaining in May of this year how this system works.

You have a work permit clock, right, which is another absurd thing for assils that once they file their asylum application, they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before they can apply for a work permit. And of course they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months or you know, or star over or I don't know what they're expected to do.

Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly.

So if you do something like try to change venue or a motion to continue, if you do something in your case that the judge perceives as not moving the case along and rather like kind of trying to stall it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the judge will stop the work permit clock the days and it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually when the case is set for a final hearing, that

That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still comes up when she goes to a new church that meets new people, even eleven months later. One of the worst days of her life still follows her.

And the person who posted me on my video please, uh. I don't know how to say, but the comments I was reading this was really big. And people they just judge people without if they know their status where they come from. Yeah, I can't control them, but deep down I'm not okay. And do you see it now I'm struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people they will laugh at me like yeah, yeah, but it's not funny.

Yeah, but I didn't want the time in La to entirely be defined by the detention. I didn't want them to think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here. I never really expect the government to make people feel welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to come and live here with us, and it's us who should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims

So.

I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I freaked out a little bit when I couldn't get through to them, but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building has no signal inside. It turns out their place in La Is where I conducted the interview you heard. I took them out for a manicure first, because it seemed like some thing that would make them feel taken care of, and I got Kim some bubblesa because she wanted to

Gracila Gomez presently, Gracila Sion Gomez LANs very Gracila Gormez LANs very same.

Obviously, we arrived too late to help, but we arrived soon enough to ensure that least in death, she was afforded to dignity the world has denied her in life. Then I strapped half of fifty gallon barrels my backpack frame where my friends carried slabs to water bottles. As we walked. A construction vehicle above us reeled holes into the earth for pylons that would hold a second thirty

See okay.

Doing this for years, we said goodbye to a fair share of people who he never got to say hello to and whose faces we never got to see. Last summer, I helped search to the remains of a migrant who had passed away in a canyon deep in the desert. Every time I do this fills me with a deep sadness, especially with all the friends from the jungle who I've lost touch with since then. It could be easy to look at everything I've laid out in this series and feel hopeless.

But I don't want you to.

It could be easy to feel afraid as well, because now is the time that caring about other people is dangerous. It's possible currently for some folks to keep their heads stay and try and keep themselves safe, but to can find their actions to are angry posting on social media. But our politics shouldn't be about anger. It should be about love. Now more than ever, it's important to remember that we don't act on our love and our solidarity with angry tweets. We act on it by taking care

My name is Matt. I'm just a normal person who listens to a lot of podcasts.

I didn't know him, and he didn't know me, but he listened to the podcast I made.

I can still very vividly remember where I was when when I listened to that, which was I was coming back from a dirt biking trip in Michigan, and so I had a seven hour drive, and I was like, oh cool, here's a three hour podcast that I listened to.

Like many Americans until ready to be late in Biden administration, that knew about immigration, but he hadn't really grappled with the fact that what secure borders means is killing innocent people in the jungle, in the desert and everywhere in between. That's how deterrence works, That's how it's post to work.

Like I didn't realize that that was like intentional, and then hearing you know, hearing hearing yours, I was just sort of like, oh, right, Like just the fact that people would go to such a just such lengths of of danger on a journey just across a continent and knowing that once they get here, they're not even welcome. Right, We're going to intentionally put up this like kind of

Matt felt like now that he knew this, he couldn't not do something about it, so he took some of his vacation time at work and came to southern California.

The thing, though, was crazy is seeing all the equipment, you know, the equipment, if you can call that, left behind by the people traveling through these places where it's just like normal shoes and just like cheap Walmart backpacks and just you know, the just basic stuff that you would just like where to school.

Matt joined friends of mine in the mountains, carrying water and helping with some techi shues we've been wondering about. He saw the wall, and he saw the damage. He does he saw the difficult terrain people have to cross just to get a chance to ask for help here, the ways they have to risk their lives even after they make it to the USA. He also got to experience the where they're helping other people helps us.

As I was heading back home, I definitely had this feeling about like like way less disc bear getting together with people to just do something, to just do something useful to help people, even if it's just like in a tiny way, like even if somehow it doesn't help, but it's like it probably will. But importantly doing it with other people it made me feel a lot better. It made me not feel so like just everything is fucked, like the world is descending into fascism or when there's

Is like is good. Soon after, like all of us, he saw the board it bringing its violence into cities across the United States.

I mean, like just masked federal agents, we assume, mostly refusing to identify themselves, just randomly picking people up. I mean, it's crazy and it's just a I mean I literally am a loss for work. I mean it's just it's so the opposite of what America is all about, straight up like fascism. Like I just I never thought I would live through something like this. I always just thought that's the kind of thing that happens in other countries, you know.

I guess a lot of us thought that. A lot of us probably thought this kind of state violence was confined to other places and other times. We wondered, perhaps absent mindedly, what we might do in those places and times. For years, as a historian and a reporter, have thought about them, read about them, visited them. Now I'm living in them.

It's always just sort of like in the same way that you would think, what would happen if I was in this I don't know, movie, Like it's not real, Just.

Think like, oh, what if I was Jason Bourne Matt Night stayed in touch one day. He was in La owned business and I mentioned I've been helping Primos navigate the mass transit nightmare that is Los Angeles so she could get to her ice appointment. He oftener to stop buy if you needed a ride anywhere connected them. He saw her place and he offered to help I guess with furniture as well, then it was time for him to fly home every day like I do. He had

No.

No only does it mean sharing your space, it also means taking yourself out of the safe group and accepting that the states I of Sarron might fall on you. Now, you know.

I talked it over with my wife and we were like, you know, both wanted to do this, and but you know, we had to acknowledge like it might mean that like these assholes and masks show up at our house, like where our kids are, and are like gonna haul away this family. That might happen in like right over there. I mean, I don't like it, but I.

I don't know.

I've just I feel like you gotta do just gotta do something, you.

Know, y end. He says, it wasn't a hard decision to make.

I mean it was a lot easier because my wife was actually just like one hundred percent let's do it. And I was like, well, hold on a second, look, we should at least think through the outcome. She's like, I don't care whatever, just do it.

Like a lot of people, Matt had always done things to help people, but nothing like this, nothing that directly put him in between someone who needed to be kept safe and the people who didn't want them to be safe.

Yeah, I mean, nothing is dangerous.

I mean.

Charity stuff, but you know, sometimes with time, but usually just like giving money to people to you know, who need it or whatever. But you know, this is definitely the most like direct involvement to help someone who needs it. Certainly is the first time that I've exposed my family to any thing like this.

So one day this autumn, Primos and Kimberley said goodbye to Los Angeles, got on a plane, flew to the East coast.

I thought I was waiting at the right spot, but they let them out at a different there, so they actually walked past me. In the airport. They didn't even see it, but I eventually figured it out. Luckily, the airport is not that big, and so I could just sort of walk, just walk all the baggage. Claym Mary and I eventually found them.

Then they went for sushi, then for ice cream, a perfect suburban stripmall American evening, the sort of evening people crossed jungles and deserts be able to enjoy, the sort of evening the hundreds of people I met in the jungle will never be able to enjoy. Of course, it's hard to sit in a cold stone and talk about the things people endure to come here. That's just sometimes it's still difficult to even comprehend what his new friends had been through.

It's hard to answer, like you're asking me a good question about, like, well, what was it like et and it's like the difference the distance between, like our shared experience is so vast it's still often almost doesn't seem real.

I've had that same thought. It's hard to hear stories from migrants and really think of them as human experiences, not just stories. That's why I go into the mountains and the desert. That's why I spent a decade asking gettus to send me to this daddy in. I didn't think I could understand migrants journeys if I hadn't experienced a little part of them. And I don't think we should write about migrants and not write about what they go through to get to a strip mall sushi place.

I mean, like they know where she lives. We told them, are she lives, so like she lives in my house, so you know, yeah, they might.

I don't know.

I mean, yeah, I guess I'm like not as afraid of that. I have to say that the ICE people in seem just like a bunch of cheery folks. Like it's seems pretty different than I mean, like I met many of them, yeah, part of this process, and they were not the like you know, plate carriers and guns guys. They were just like the you know, they work in the office and decide whether you get to move here or not, you know, yeah, yeah, and they were like very friendly and downright helpful.

Promotes your settling in it. That's place now. But it's Matt explained, the struggle isn't over yet now, like.

Our energy is more on how do we help her make her case because she has an asylum case that you know, she she needs to win and it's you know, I'm not a lawyer, but wow, sounds like what asylum is for literally running from a hostile government that she was protesting and was going to jail and torture her. Like, what what is asylum for?

If not for that? Of course, interacting with the asylum system has shown that some of its absurdities, like the work permit clock for our bus rides to riverside, the endless changing regulation. So one has to navigate or trying to survive without the ability to legally work.

In what way can you do this legally without some you know, group helping you, without like just somebody saying fine, I will take you and pay for your living expenses. What is the legal way to like seek asylum? You come here, they put you in jail, You stay in jail, which is fucking jail. Yeah they let you out of jail. Good, hooray, we're out of jail, and now you're homeless. Yeah, you have no possessions and no ability to legally work. At least let them work. I mean, come on, like, just

Changing that making a law's line up with what anyone would see is basic decency isn't coming anytime soon. In the meantime, they have to navigate the asylum system. As many contradictions. Primo has never got any follow up care for her leg injury. The only way she could access care in her new home was once again totally impractical for someone without a car, just another example of how the system sets people up to suffer and fail.

There's no way to get her to the doctor. Well, okay, there is a way, a way. Technically, we could drive like an hour and twenty minutes way out to this place that like as a thing with the ice that they will say like, well that's your approved like medical provider, Like I'm not gonna drive quarantine is each way to just do some minor thing. Yeah, so we pay out a pocket. So we go to a doctor and we go here's the problem we have. We don't have insurance.

Like it's just.

What are what are those people supposed to do?

It's brokensistent and it's not one we can really rely on government to change whoever was in office.

The Democrats don't have a great answer for this either. I wish they did. I mean, I will still vote for them because they're at least less bad. You know, what are the choices do you have? It's like, if there was a better party, I would be that one that I mean, if they had a chance of winning, right, yeah, no other party has a chance of winning. So yeah, man, I'm a Democrat and I will help the Democrats try to win elections. They push it in the direction that

When I first moved to the US, George W. Bush as president. Soon after I got hi, Obama was elected and it was Thanksgiving. I didn't know much about Thanksgiving, and I didn't have much time for history that overlooks set a little lonely list them anyway. But the day before where it's riding my bike down the coast and I ran into some folks who were also riding their bikes. They asked what plans I had for the next day, and I told them I was just going to ride

It was enlightening to me that a it wasn't just me, Like, it's not just oh, I for some reason, I am the only one who's like really upset by all this. You know, there are other folks who are like this, but also just like a lot of other people are absolutely willing to take risks, be generous with their time and money, Like there's a lot of them. There's a lot of people who like want to help, and that kind of community.

Aspect of it.

It was a surprise to me that the doing it with other people was so powerful. Like I thought it was just about the doing the actual act of helping people somehow, but doing it with other people was just surprisingly good. Made me feel much more optimistic about our ability to get through this collectively.

I asked Matt what he wanted people to know about his experience.

Well, I mean, I guess what I would like people to know is it's not as hard as you might think to help folks like primos, Like it sounds insurmountable, like oh no, I'm exposed to all this risk and danger and legal hassle or whatever. But it's like it's not that complicated. It's like they fill out a forum and it just says like, oh, now I live here, and then once prove it, then there.

The hard part is finding someone, especially now that migrants are more worried than ever to be out and in the community. Any database would be a risk for them. But maybe that's not a problem that someone can solve.

It's kind of like an information sharing problem because like, these folks are all across the United States, and the people who could host them are similarly all across these states.

But you don't have to take someone into your home. There are hundreds of things you can do wherever you are. You can feed people who are hungry, pick up someone's kids from school, or take their dogs for a walk, fix someone's car so it doesn't get towed or ticketed, or drive someone to a doctor's appointment. Creating safe communities for migrants is not a distinct act from creating safe

Truly, the migrants on this route are not here because they want to be. They are here because the economy and their countries is terrible or something. Everything is going badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them knowing that we won't not us never. This is a belief that we have. We are all children of God. God made the world and humanity, and we are not that different. We are all brothers.

I want to leave the that's word today to primaries, because really is the story about her and him and the incredible tenacity encourage the show to get here.

Even if I say I can me and myself, I can say thank you. I don't even know how to say thank you, but I'm just God knows. God, please blase those people who put ince on me and Kim. I thought maybe I'm alone, but I realized I'm not alone here if also people who helped me. You guys who helped me so much. I never even get helped even in my country the way I get to helped in America.

And I'm really really glad.

I'm very glad for those people who helped me. I have especially since when I was even in me, when I was in Mexico. In my prayers, i just say, God, just blase those people who put ince on me. You make me feel better. You put smile in my face and even came when you came here. I wasn't even heavy clothes to way nothing. They just only the clothes they gave us in detention when they detain us. That the clothes I was leaving I was when I want

But for now, I'm.

Really really appreciated a lot. I really appreciate a lot because my life is like changing now.

So yeah, and it's.

Like you were saying, the things came or he would be so different from the chances you had. Right, she can she speaks English, she speaks Spanish, she can go to school here.

Yeah. Does that make you happy when you think about.

Yeah, I'm Reyaby.

Even if I even told you, Kim, I was asking you one day, I said, Kim, what if I die today? She was even mentioned your name, said, I would just ask him maybe I can just go to school?

Yeah, yeah, wish.

Also she was like, Mammy, I want to write my book when I start high school. I need to write my story of my life because we have been through a lot, but now we are happy. I don't want to live with your support. Guys, I'm really appreciated. Yeah, because if she go to school, I'm happy.

I know she.

I want you to heave a better life.

Yeah, this is it could happen here.

Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.

I'm Garrison Davis.

Today I'm joined by James Stout and Sophie Lichterman. This episode, we are covering the week of November twenty fourth to December fourth.

An extra long week.

Somehow the squeezed a few more days in there to open us up. James, what are what are some important small stories we don't want to overlook?

Okay? Yeah, yeah, a lot because of our extra long week, right?

Yeah.

The United States is flying manned ISR flights over Nigeria and possibly parts of the Sahel as well. It's not entirely clear because the flights kind of go dark once they take off. Sources familiar with the matter have suggested that you AV strikes might begin soon. It seems that the ISR flights are targeting Iswapan. J And I am. I'm gonna write about this on my Patreon, probably because I think it requires visuals and I think it's it's too much to go into in depth here. But if

Wow?

Yeah, Okay, hit you with another acronym, A foyer. I think I think we know that. One fire by the Cato Institute has revealed that the FBI under Biden was investigating the SRA that's a socialist rifle association. It didn't bring charges against any of the members, but it did apparently investigate him for some time. Finally, the National Park Service has announced a new fee schedule and quote unquote modernized graphics for passes.

Is this the horrific image you sent us?

Yes, it's a picture of Donald Trump. Yeah, that's how they've modernized it. It's it's not very nice. I I know there are better things in the parks. I feel like, like, you know, half Dome is nice, the Yosemite Valley, Yeah, pretty cool. Shit in wrangle sint Elias that you could do instead.

That's like him trying to rename that East Institute after himself. He just keeps trying to put his face and name on everything. Yeah.

Well, when you're a dying man, legacy becomes very important.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, But that's exactly it. The US Institute of Peace is being renamed for Trump.

Really yeah, oh I know I miss that. Great cool.

It's feeling very similar to that, whether he's just putting his face and name on everything.

Yeah.

So two things, right, electronic passes for parks it's phony a good thing, And a one hundred dollars up charge for non United States I think it's residents as opposed to citizens in the eleven most popular parks.

How can they even check that?

I might just ask like this, this sounds like a tourism thing, right, like they just wanted people to dinner, like visiting the States to pay more.

To be clear, other countries do this. I still think it's bad. Like some of the Grand Canyon is part of a cultural patrimony of all of humanity. Yeah, the National Park Service itself is an exercise in set like colonialism. But we can talk about that forever. Yeah, I've seen some stuff with gate ranges, be like, I'm absolutely not asking feel green cord. Yeah, no, that's silly fear ranges. But yeah, I think they were just kind of assuming good faith. A lot of other countries do do this,

Speaking of big changes, a pretty big update in a case that has lasted nearly five years. This morning, Thursday, December fourth, a suspect was arrested in connection to the pipe bombs placed around the capital the night before January sixth, specifically at the DNC and rnc aad quarters in Washington, d C. This suspect has been identified as thirty year old Brian Cole Junior, from a Woodbridge, Virginia. Federal law enforcement sources have told The New York post that the

Okay, okay, So like some some background.

This arrest does partially discredit a report from The Blaze, which Robert has talked about on this show before, which falsely identified a former Capitol Police officer as the bomber based on Gate analysis.

Yeah, if they prosecute someone else, the Blaze is going to get sued out of existence. So I would imagine they.

Critical support to former Capital police officer puts the Blaze out of business. Wow, pour one out for Glenn Beck. But this suspect that lives at a home associated with both their parents. It's unclear if their parents are still married. Suspects dad runs a bail bond business, which the Sun is supposed to have worked for, and the mom is a real estate agent. Not much online presence can be found yet on Brian Cole Junior. I've spent hours looking

A developing story.

Yeah, yeah, we'll do a whole episode if it marriage it later, I guess sure. Talking of terrible indictment, Garrison, would you like to hear about a terrible indictment out of Texas?

I'm going to say yes, but no, I don't know if i'd like to for what reasons? I feel like you're going to do it anyway, so I'll play along.

Two Texas men have been indicted for a plan to invade a small island off hate, kill all the men, and sexually enslave all the women and children.

What I'm sorry?

What?

Yeah? This is this is a wild one. The indictment says they we hope to quote lead an unlawful expeditionary force to the island of Gonave, which is part of the Republic of at For the purpose of carrying out their rape fantasies. Weisinberg and Thomas plan to purchase a sailboat, firearms, and ammunition, then recruit members of the District of Columbia area homeless population to serve as a mercenary force, as

This is absolutely insane. Who are who are these two Texas men? Why do they think this is like a thing that can be like, all.

Right, it's borderline something I considered not including because like the people are probably pretty unwell.

It seems like are they just obsessed with like Eric Prince like, I don't, I don't understand.

I don't.

Yeah, Like, if the guy hadn't passed all the background checks to get into the air Force, I feel like this would be less remarkable. Right, But while planning to invade a small island and enslave everybody he got into the air force. That that in itself like like should be a story. And of course it is all alleged, right, it's all in an indictment. We don't know what the evidential basis for a lot of this is.

Well, that was disturbing.

Yeah, it's wild one. I guess we'll keep you informed. What Garson Garrison.

I like, I like, can't even compute, Like, that's one of the most insane things I've heard in a really long time.

Well, fors of economic news, let's has thrown to tariffs.

Let's glow to tariff talk with me a.

Rocking jazz rockety jazz bot rocking jazz rocky jazz bo.

This is mea wong with tariff talk. So obviously, the biggest tariff news right now is the impending Supreme Court ruling on the legality of a broad swath of the terrorists that Trump has imposed using unbelievably dubious legal and economic authority. And by unbelievably dubious, I mean it is so patently illegal. It is an astounding demonstration of the complete advocation of the Supreme Court's pretensions at being one of the branches of government. That this hasn't already been overturned.

But you know, this is there.

These are things that they're saying, and there's probably going to be an increasing conflict between the sectors of capital that just want their money back from these tariffs and the Trump administration, which you know, wants there's money for its, you know, nebulus political purposes. There's been some sort of

Ruler of Brazil.

Now there has been over the past few weeks there's been some sort of ratcheting down of a lot of the tariffs. There's been a bunch of goods that have been exempt from the teriffs as part of Trump's sort of widespread efforts to like lower food prices, because there's a bunch of food goods that are being exempt from this stuff. And there was also very recently we got an actual call between Trump and Lula which seems to have gone fairly well, you know, at least it seems

Bush.

The final piece of news that we need to touch on is the US is chief trade negotiator gave an interview with Politico, and this is Perya who News basically talked to Politico and told them that Trump is considering, you know, is talking about leaving or renegotiating the USMCA, which is the trade agreements that he negotiated to replace NAFTA in twenty twenty.

Roll this back again.

This is his deal.

He's talking about leaving or renegotiating his deal. This was his big thing in twenty twenty is big. One of his big things was, oh I abolished NAFTA. Oh I created this deal, and you know, I've one at the time was like, well, this is just like NAFTA with like the edges filed off, you know, but like this is sort of the point that we're at in Trumpian trade policy where it's like, ah, we're getting ripped off by Mexico and Canada in the trade deal that I saw.

Brother, you you did this, this this this was your trade deal, and somehow, somehow now you know, into in terms of real terms, right, this is actually a massive deal. So this deal has a six year term. It was negotiated in twenty twenty, which means just coming up next year. And this is a big enough deal that there's already

Etc.

Because I'm renegotiating the evil trade deals and now like our good American workers would no longer be exploited by like evil Mexican or Chinese workers, which you know, has been an extremely effective political strategy for him, and is you know, awsome. So this sort of this sort of like national fascist program that he's running is sort of based on, you know, on this kind of trade policy and on manipulating the sentiments of people who got like

Let's let's go to an ad break real quick. We'll be right back, and we're back, Arison, tell me, tell me something less horrific than what James just told us before me as tariff textion.

I missed a pot. I missed a pot. Okay, do you do? You want to guess how they were making money for part of this and cording to the indictment, this is the Texas many why's been made the island? How are they making money?

Crypto?

No, it's worse than that. That's a good guest, Sophie.

Mm.

But you've said it's worse than that.

Oh no, manipulating camgirls.

In a sense, it appears they were producing child sexual abuse material.

Oh yeah, wow, this is I mean, obviously it's still allegedly, but like, this is one of the worst things I've ever heard, and I don't even know how to react.

Huh.

Yeah, he was he received he was prosecuted under U C mjuh for that previously this year. Yeah, I was prosecuted in Uh. I'm just reading a Task and Purpose article which builds in the indictment. But the it says, so he's arrested in July and has since been court martialed. Ah, so good times, good times in the air the Air Force.

Yeah, well I can't I can't believe the Air Force has done something wrong. Yeah, finally the first blaze on are prouder glorious Air Force. Maybe the biggest national news story kicked off the day before Thanksgiving, not just because of what happened, but then all of the fallout that has resulted from this incident, which James will report on afterwards.

Wow.

Yeah.

A twenty nine year old man, Romanula Locknwall is charged with first degree murder and assault with intent to kill. The criminal complaint alleges he shouted a la akbar as he fired Lockawall came to the United States as a part of Operation Allies Welcome in twenty twenty one, which moved US assets out of Afghanistan as the Taliban gain control of the region. Lockinwall was later granted formal asylum

His role with the zero three unit. Quote.

According to a volunteer who worked with his family, Blockenwall's mental health started rapidly declining in early twenty twenty three. He begun self isolated, withdrawing from work and family, stopped paying rent, and faced deviction in twenty twenty four. This volunteer wrote in an email to an immigrant nonprofit group, which was obtained by the AP In the New York Times, which reads that lock Andwell quote has not been functional as a person, father and provider since March of last year,

Yeah, and he seems to be behaving in a way that, like you said, suggest he has some PTSD or.

Like no PTSD from engaging in combat. This is very common among veterans and mental health support for specifically these people in this in this paramilitary unit probably doesn't exist, right, does not exist the same way it does for veterans of the United States military, which already is a lacking service.

Yeah, yeah, that's that. Yeah, I mean these the ship that these guys did was dark. I've included in the in the show notes a linked to a Human Rights Watch report. But like, there's a reason that they weren't specifically under In theory, they were under the Afghan Ministry of Defense Command, but in practice they operated outside either chain of control. They did kill or capture missions. There are multiple reports of them killing everybody in a house

Specifically in reference to reporting which has come out of Minnesota about a series of like fraudulent claims based on like COVID nineteen food and housing assistance programs this state was running, and people who were abusing those programs for their own financial benefit, and some of these specific instances are now being used to attack the entire Somali community in Minnesota.

Yeah, it's worth noting that the percentage of the Somali community which is on TPS is very small. It's probably a few hundred people. I don't know how those COVID assistance programs like overlap with once immigration status, right, but it's worth noting that. It's also worth noting, like I've linked to the statue in the show notes, the Somali

Also, it doesn't revert to like literal smoke edge fog. I'm sorry, and this is like absurd.

Yeah, it's a ludicrous claim, right. Yes, there have been times where I have been in places like for instance, I was in Java a couple of years ago and we were being bombed. Right the way for me to get information, it was better for me to like go online and find stuff because the access to information on the ground in conflict times can be difficult. That's not the case when you're in DC watching a screen readout right. That is why we have people who are not in

I don't understand they were not engaged in combat.

No, Like, I don't see any evidence that these people were equipped to like certainly not to fight against a drone.

Right.

No, Why does this matter?

Right?

Because these people are dead regardless.

Yeah.

Why does the emphasis on this second strike matter more than simply attacking them the first time? Why is could this result in haig Seth being in yea a degree of trouble? Why there's a defensive about this second strike?

Fair question? It is a very clear violation of the US military's own Law of War manual, which I have linked and the Geneva Conventions to kill someone who's demonstrably order to combat right out of combat i e. A shipwrecked sailor, i e. A wounded soldier who's thrown away

I mean, yeah, I find it unlike that haig Seth will actually fall into trouble international law because of this. People always get away, and I mean you can see how Trump already pardoned number of work criminals earlier this year and in his first administration, right, and in his first administration.

Yeah, as much fun.

As it is to be like haha, like this, I like to see old peate haig Seth wiggles way out of this jam.

Yes he will. I think he's expected to do so quite easily. I mean international doesn't exist for people in the global North. It's a thing that they do to prosecute African people for the most part. But yes, very unlikely that we will see hag Seth in the Hague for this still bad though. We'll go on another ad break and be right back.

All right, we are back.

We would like to now expand and clarify some of our previous previous discussion of Zoron's White has meeting with Donald Trump and some statements around ice raids and ice detainers. Let's start by clarifying this one hundred and seventy serious crimes number. Yeah, while answering a question, Zoran said, quote, we discussed ice and New York City, and I spoke about how the laws we have in New York City allowed the city government to speak to the federal administration

Yeah. And these are mostly like violent felets. Yeah. The law that Garrison refers to lists them by penal code number. So I'm working on expanding those into a list of words that human beings can understand. Yeah, sure, just because I think people generally don't understand sanctuary protections. Sanctuary laws are not like a They're not the same in every state, They're not the same in every city in every state, and I think a lot of people have an understanding

Yeah, I mean, and this is part of the other things that Zaron campaigned on to like strength and sanctuary protections, And specifically in the section of his policies on quote unquote trump proofing New York City, he talks about like ending a legal ICE cooperation on Riker's Island or ICE is currently stationed, which does go against sanctuary laws, and you've talked about ending that as well as providing one hundred and sixty five million dollars in funding for immigration

Yeah, Like, not criminalizing homelessness and not criminalizing parking are probably two of the most meaningful things that you can do to limit police interaction a specifically police interactions from documented people.

Yeah, and I mean in terms of like turnstile hopping or like fair evation. It's it's complicated in New York. Mean, this isn't gonna be something that they honor a detainer for. But in terms of like you know, just talking about like the Yeah, how weird and specific each state's laws are like turnstile hopping can be a misdemeanor crime in New York due to like theft of services.

It can also just be a civil in fracture.

It can, but it's up to the officer to decide whether they want this to turn into a criminal misdemeanor or a civil infraction and just pay one hundred dollars fine.

Yeah, yeah, because that person or that person could leave New York and be somewhere else, right, or they could just get swept up in ice workplace raid, and that could be used as a pretext like there are many reasons why even if it's sanctuary protected, that person could still be vulnerable because of that prosecution.

Like you said, yeah, I mean, and then those sorts of raids are still happening in New York.

An attempted rate happened in Connell Street. Yeah, last week.

It was prevented from being carried out by people who literally blocked Ice from leaving the parking garage that they were in, and the NYPD then arrested a few protesters. It remains to be seen how Zoron will handle incidents

Curious to see when he's actually the mayor, what will happen here?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's that's that's a part of like what governing is going to look like in this case, which is kind of sure, it's hard to say. We've never really had a high profile like you know, dsa person who previously advocated like defunded or abolishing the police become the mayor of a city.

Yeah, And I think this kind.

Of relates to like so much of what the project in New York is around New York City DSA and zoron to rather than just like you know, be like chasing electoral cars and then crashing once you have control. Exortins weren't just in like actually running the city and providing a legitimate example that democratic socialst policies can deliver on promises for workers and improve life in New York. And if this project succeeds, it can be pointed to

Right, Yeah, I mean a politics abolishing GUS looks like the United States up until two thousand and one, right, like we didn't have ice.

Well, but like from now, like what would it mean to actually stop the quotations completely?

Like what will that look like? What can be done politically to do that? Right?

And Zorin's not doing this because Soron's the mayor of

Yeah, there have been proposals put forward for a long time on what it would look like to create better legal pathways and fewer deportations, right, like those who existed. Sure, like you can look specifically at what people were trying to get Biden to do in twenty twenty, right, which he obviously completely failed to do and in effect made things much worse. But like those policy proposals exist, and they're well thought out and well planned from people who've

Yeah, And like I did also, like I guess clarify some things I would have said last week and not claiming that sheerly the the process of honoring these detainers will like vaguely in a causal sense, results in less ice raids in the city. I mean, these detainers are they are legally required, even under sanctuary laws, to be to be followed. And I think part of what Zora was doing was trying to redirect the president's thought away

And like what they told him.

I'm not saying that like honoring these these legally required detainers is like is simply harmon direction in that sense. This is more so in reference to the ongoing negotiations between Momdani and Trump to limit ICE action in the city outside of these detainer requests, which do address serious crime. Which Trump and Mom Donnie saw as a point of commonality on is they want New York to be a safe place for people, focusing on that as opposed to

If National Guard or assisting ICE, is that like because they can't directly do the immigration enforcement, right, Well, I mean assisting ICE in the way that they haven't washed in DC. Yeah, like in terms of like quote unquote protecting officers or quote yes.

Yeah, and you know the proposals to do so in Chicago and Portland, which are cotton like legal limbo. But I mean that the Portland was more specifically for the ICE facility, Yeah, protecting federal building, this kind of deal, versus in Washington, d C. They were like on patrol with ICE, Like they were like roving.

Around and doing roadblocks and shit.

Yeah, and like much of this quote unquote crime crackdown, as Bridgetes reported on our show, really is actually a way to do like enhanced immigration enforcement.

Yeah.

There's a lot of fear in New York and discussions with people in New York and like how are we going to handle this happening here?

Yeah? And this is like the one point of moment that we've seen is Trump pulling out of these plans, which previously we're quite certain he wants to like go one by one and like invade these cities. Yeah, New York. You also have the like the added factor that like New York is technically in that border enforcement zone, right, So I mean as is Chicago. Yeah, I guess most of these places have been Chicago, Portland is Los Angeles.

Rightly.

They didn't have to wait for Eric Adams or man Downey or anyone else, like it was members of their community.

Yeah.

Yeah, which is cool talking of communities. They want to want to talk about the campus campus community and have freedom of speech. He's under threat on our campuses. Well, freedom of religion is under threat, James, Okay, religion to freedom to so tired, freedom to tire, to cite a vibe space interpretation of the religion.

I mean, yeah, this unfortunately, this story did infringe upon my freedom to not read horrible college essays Garrison.

That is a freedom that I have not had for many years.

No, no, and this is why I'm interested in your thoughts on this. A transgraduate instructor has been suspended from the University of Oklahoma after issuing a failing grade to a students assignment right a six hundred and fifty word response to a study on if gender conformity is linked

Should that be valid? No, but even this was not done.

It's like Bible fanfic.

These are the vibes I get from genius.

Well, yeah, she just gestured her own interpretation of biblical gender roles, right sure, sure, quote women naturally want to do womanly things because God created us with those womanly desires in our heart unquote.

So she's women and know like like females. I guess maybe maybe she was going for a.

It's it's all circular reasoning like this all based on based on these like biblical gender roles, and later the essay goes on to self contradict itself on ideas of gender norms versus gender stereotypes, and it's all just very poorly written. James, did you read the whole essay. No, Okay, it's not it's not long. We are not going to read it all on air.

I'll read it right now.

I want you to read the whole thing and just just give me the chat your immediate thoughts. I dropped it in the zoom chat.

You have to understand that I might experience like what it's called a trauma reaction. It's only two pages, so it's based on a review of an article, based on a review of an academic study. Yeah, on if gender conformity impacts bullying or popularity in middle school. Okay, Jesus Christ, that's what she said, but not yet she has excited him specifically. No, she never said Jesus yeah God mm hm ah, hell yeah. I love it when they get into like Hebrew. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, I'm just skinned

Can I just read like the last part out loud?

Okay, Sophie, you can. You can read the last part.

Yeah.

My prayer for the world, and specifically for American society and youth is that they would not believe the lies being spread from satan that make them believe they're better off as another gender than what God made them. I pray that they feel God's love and acceptance as who He originally created them to be.

So if you really inhabited that role beautifully.

Thank you, thank you previously and like the paragraph of four.

Do you want me to do it? Yeah, I unfortunately feel like I could really embody this horrific person. Society pushing the lie that there are multiple genders and everyone should be whatever they want to be is demonic It severely harms American youth. I do not want kids to be.

Teased bullying stuff yet, So, James, as a college college professor, what is your thoughts on this?

It's just a bad response to the question, right that there is not a single citation the person has not done what they were instructed to do. They have just it's a classic example of that you have answered the question you wanted me to ask, not the question I

Yeah, they do have the rubrick, and that TPUSA published. The rubrick was that you must write this six hundred and fifty word reaction paper demonstrating that you have read the assigned article and includes a thoughtful reaction to the material presented in the article. Please remember that your reaction paper should not be a summary, but rather a thoughtful

That's a broader prompt than I had otherwise imagined. Yeah.

Other section is Reaction papers are graded on a twenty five point scale and are evaluated based on the following Does the paper show a clear tie to the assigned article ten points, Does paper present a thoughtful reaction or response to the article rather than a summary ten points? And is the paper clearly written five points. The best reaction papers illustrate the students have read the assigned materials and engaged in critical thinking about some aspect of the article.

Yeah, I mean the way you would do that is to reference the article more than in the first line of your paper and then never again, right sure, which is what this person has done here. Look, at no point do they quote from the article, mention anything specifically the article says other than that it was very thought provoking. And then like they've seen the word gender and just gone off like a dog after a squirrel, right, like, yes, and then completely gone off on one about god.

Yeah, that's a pretty broad prompt.

It's broader than I would generally write a prompt, but that's okay with different approaches. They haven't specifically said in the prompt that they want people to cite their sources, which I normally do. But yeah, they haven't really shown any engagement with the article.

Right Like, this isn't a fresh ofment, this isn't a software this is this is a junior well well into this semester. The response from the instructor was, quote, please note, I'm not deducting points because you have certain beliefs, but instead I'm deducting points where you're posting a reaction paper that does not answer the questions for the assignment, contradict itself, heavily uses personal ideology over empirical evidence in a scientific class,

Again this is a science class. I guess right late, Like this is not a scientific response. It is yeah, no, entirely vibespased.

Before becoming a national news story, this grade was reviewed and approved by another instructor. This isn't just one instructor who happens to be trans This isn't just their personal grade.

That's not what that is, right, Like, like, I have watched the short form video about discrimination many times of my years instructing students, and like, this person wasn't discriminated against because of their beliefs. They were discriminated. They weren't discriminated against. They were graded for their response which was poor, for.

Failing to follow the rules of these and again not not even as like a freshman who needs more clear like you know, first year uniche, Like, no, yeah, this is this is this is a psychology major in her junior year.

Yeah, writing this response as a part.

Of it, as a part of a pscient as a scientific psychology course where it's not about science at all. You're just talking about your own impression of what God wants out of gender roles and citing not not even sighting, but like pointing towards the whole spirit and the heavenly Father.

Yeah, and some Hebrew shit that you've translated. I know that most instructors who teach at universities now are very concerned about exactly this, right, about a student writing a paper which is just bad and then them going to the pretty much tp USA specific right and being like, yes, it came against me because they hate Jesus, and I can imagine that that is worse for trans and gender not conforming and otherwise absolutely instructors from conversations right like.

No, absolutely, and like TPUSA first gained popularity for its like professor watch lists where people could report their like woke liberal professors, and this is this is the core part of the TPUSA model, is attacking academics and people who work in university in this instants like cause speculation of like how much of this essay was genuine versus was this intention only bad essay to provoke this response,

Yeah, I do want to say, well, like it appears Garrison, I discussed this before, but it appears that this person is a grad student and not like a ten year professor adjunct, yes, certainly not tenured, right, Sure, therefore they are much more vulnerable and they have many fewer protections than a tenured professor would have. I don't know if they unionize. It depends on where they're teaching, right, But.

Like University of Oklahoma, that is questionable.

Yeah, I mean possibilities points to know, But like, this is a series is fucking problem for anybody teaching in these fields, right, especially graduate students. Like I say especially, I mean imagine you're a graduate student on a student visa, right, Like, how do you approach teaching this when you know that you could end up on the TPUSA Instagram.

It's trying to chill speech, right, This is this is part of what they're doing. They're turning this into a free speech crusade for religious discrimination. But what this is actually doing is chilling speech at universities by making it so you can't teach certain topics, especially if you happen to be trans to yourself. Otherwise TEPA USA in the right wing media system is going to turn your life into a living nightmare.

Yeah. I've repeatedly seen a First Amendment cited and ref to this This has not got anything to do with the First Amendment. Like, the First Amendment doesn't give you the right to get a good grade for saying what the fuck you want? That's that's not in the First Amendment. But yeah, like Garrison said, it is chilling speech. Good news. Oklahoma University Workers United is a union sick okay, cool, and it includes grad student instructors unclear okay, hit us up o uwu and let.

Us know before we close, I do want to mention another story that's happened this week, which is gonna prompt of a future episode probably next week. The online gambling platform cal She. I've never said it before. I'm saying Calsh has that a serial partnered with c Cashi. I you don't even know what you're talking about anymore. But the online gambling platform cal she is partnered with CNN and CNBC this past week to allow the news companies to use qute unquote real time prediction data for TV

I like that you've pronounced the day of this company several different see.

I used to call it heal.

This is the problem.

I think it's I think it's Calshi. I think I think Calshi is correct.

There's one possible benefit to this. Will it stop Nate Silva being so fucking annoying. No, it'll cause them to be more annoying games.

How can you not see that this is this is a part of the nayverification of everything good and this this is what I want to talk about in the

Like that was the core piece of data. He was trying to explain, what the fuck? How big is this marketplace?

Pretty big?

Pretty big? Okay, so I couldn't just come in with like five hundred bucks and tip it.

No, no, no, I mean it depends on what you're doing for like these sorts of big these like big races.

No.

But part of the real problem is is if you're just tuning in to CNN and reading the graphics, it's really hard to tell that this that these are gambling odds. Yeah, you're just seeing big percentages and they're only gonna mention that it's from quote unquote betting markets or prediction markets like once at the beginning of the segment. After that they treat the numbers like actual polling data. So it's

Uh.

The Calshi competitor poly Market partnered with X Everything app and Yahoo Financed earlier this year to integrate their quote unquote prediction data into content on x and Yahoo Finance.

It's only going to become more and more common.

Well, you're gonna you of a long form episode on.

This, I will Yeah, this sucks. I'm just looking at this website now.

It sucks. I don't like this at all.

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