Also media.
Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.
Hello, and welcome to It could happen here. I'm Andrew Siege as soon as andreism on YouTube, and I'm here with me. It's James, And honestly I shouldn't see welcome to it could happen. Yeah, I shouldlready see welcome to it is happening here, because I mean, just just a second with you, James, how are you doing. You're safe?
I'm okay, Yeah, I'm safe. Right now. We are living through wild times in the United States. Every day is a new hell.
Indeed, indeed, and although I'm not in the US, the flames of that hell definitely lack the rest of the world in weis big and small.
Yeah, they definitely do. I was just talking to people in Syria yesterday and like the alavis Ala white whenever you want to call a levees, so if you want to say it, are facing quite substantial persecution currently, and like one of the larger refugee accepting countries in the world just isn't doing that anymore unless you're a white South African of course, and like that has these massive
trickle down effects for everywhere. It's just one example of how America so goes, the US so goes the world. You know.
Indeed, indeed, and not just in Syria, are the flames of conflict tearing up with the part I think most people I now know what the situation in Palestine, the way that Israel was carrying on to genocide there. You know, the Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the civil war in Myanmar, in Sudan, the you know, struggle between India and Pakistan over Kashmir and the kashmir people who are you know, left on the on the wayside. You know, the Tamil
genocide yep, taking place some in Sri Lanka. I mean, there's so many things happening across the world right now, it's really difficult to keep up.
Yeah, the friends in me Emma would prefer the framing of revolution to civil war. They're pretty explicit about that.
Okay, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, I should be using that that terminology.
Yeah, it's not it's not appropriate everywhere. But in their case, there has been a civil war since forty eight, and it's a substantial change with the twenty twenty one revolution.
Right right, right, right, Yeah, thank you for that correction.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
I think now is a really good time to have a general, almost strategic discussion on anti war struggle, and so today I really want to look at how we can come to the propaganda around war, the actions that are possible to take against militarism at home, and we could build solidarity across oceans and borders. So to understand how to actuate against war, we first need to agitate
against militarism. And those who don't know, militarism is the belief or policy that the nation should maintain a strong military and be prepare to use it aggressively to defend or promote its interests. It often involves glorifying military virtues and ideals, and prioritizing military strength and readiness above other
aspects of society such a basic Google definition. My copy of the Anarchist Encyclopedia is the English version, which is aberged, sadly, but the original French has the full unabridged Anarchist Encyclopedia. So with a bit of shaky online translation magic and managed to pull its definition of militarism as well. Miltarism is a system that consists of having and maintaining military personnel. It's essential and avoult goal is a preparation for war.
The recruitment of a standing army in the organization of the cageris of reserve army. The accumulation that put it in place turn into the state of service of ever more modern, more perfected war material. In short, is the preliminary organization of war. All are the implications of that, well, all over the world, I think we can see, you know, the consequences of statism, the might makes right, pursuit of conquest, the fighting wars abroad or at home, for the strategic interests,
ideological commitments, resource claims, whatever the case may be. The rivalries within the ruling class, and how that pleas out, and how it's that that blows back on all of our faces. You know, the profits the military industrial complex which keeps this whole system chuning on, you know, the blood of innocence. Of course, the longstanding consequences and continued work of colonialism. And of course the way is that militarism gets turned inward with this suppression of strikes, of activism,
of popular unrest. When the now militarized police aren't enough, they often bring in the military itself and reports. With militarism, we also have the narrative component, you know, the building of patriotism that so plans the seed of fascism. States can survive without militaries. It is true the state typically depends upon some effort or some attempt at monopoly on the legitimate use of violence within the territory by some definitions.
But the states which do not have militaries often can do so because they've outsourced the military functions to another state, and or because they have other systems in place to control descent, to develop a certain degree of social condition and pacify the population.
I'm just trying to think of states that are militaries like in my experience, I guess you have like the Panama right doesn't have a military, it has the Center Front, which are like the frontier Protection I guess, but essentially like a militarized border patrol. And they do have marines and stuff as well, I guess, so they kind of do have a military, but it's a kind of a renaming exercise more than anything.
Indeed, the same thing of having a militarized police, but it's not a military technically.
Yeah.
Well, having a militarized coast guard and it's not a military technically, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah. You have the countries like the Republic the Marshall Islands, which just outsources its militarization to the United States, right like the US. Well, I think that is a distinct thing.
The people in the Marshall Islands have seen the horrors of war very closely and also the danger of militarization, right like, the United States nuked the Marshall Islands, a country with which it had no quarrel, with which it was not at war, just to practice in case it needed to in Nuk, a country with which it did have a quarrel. I guess the legacy of that is very obvious and continues to this day there. But if
marshal Ly's people wish to join a military. They can join the US military, and the US guarantees the security and theory that it's it's yeah, it is again distinctly. For instance, if you join the US military in the Marshall Islands wish to access your veterans benefits, the easiest way to do so is to take a five hour flight to Hawaii. Like, like, they don't have any any
any benefits for victual veterans there. So I guess in that case, like maybe it does give people a different relationship to like state violence.
Yeah, it's I mean, obviously different places to have different histories as to how they came to those arrangements. But you definitely see our relationship between colonialism and the outsourcing of military functions.
Yeah, definitely.
Now, historically anarchists have been anti militarists. The encyclopedias call this aspect of the anarchist struggle, the aim to disqualifying militarism, to denounce it's terrible and painful consequences, to combat the warlike and barracks for distigmatize and dishonor war to a ball the regime of the armies, so abolish and militarism looks like material relief from the oppression military violence, the redirection of resources that go toward military toward instead things
that actually benefit the lives of everyday people, you know, the reduction of pain and suffering throughout the world, the abolition of borders which so often are the motivating force behind military exercise. And while no anarchist to deny that armed struggle is necessary for defense, it's not the same as having an imperialistic or hierarchical ambition toward you know, power over towards dominating populations of people.
Yeah, this reminds me of the discussion that happened in the CNT and Spain in the nineteen thirties previous to the Civil War. Even before that, right where they there was a very profound, an obvious discussion on like how to defend their evolution, how to defend communities whilst maintaining
anti militarism. And that's why we didn't see like there was not a like standing army beyond you had affinity groups, right, and then you had like defense committees of six six to eight people, and those people like took on the role of organizing for a potential violent like in order to defend the community right, like to use violence to
defend the community against violence. But even as it became clearer and clearer that Spain was like spiraling towards conflict, they resisted the idea of establishing and I think more militarized than that.
Yeah, and I think so core. It's been a really good place to look at for really some experiments or efforts, so ideas would have played out, strategies would have played out, and I think it's really important to take those experiments and see how we can iterate on them. Yeah, and build upon them, because I mean what I've always admired that we've carried on this anti militarist torch. It's very important to remember the landscape has changed from war times past.
You know, we're not in World War times anymore. You know, the strategies and the discussions and the approaches that may have worked back then, it doesn't work this in the same way now. You don't even have to declare war officially anymore. In this day and age. You can just say that, oh, you're doing a special military operation, or you can just send billions of dollars of aid to a country that you want to support, and even troops to the countries want to support, and technically you have
un declared warrior. Yeah, and you know, not only that, you also get to unleash generational trauma and poison upon generations of people. But it's okay because you're going after some terrorists. You know, you just get to push money and supplies towards this camp or that and whether the US is concerned and at least used to have to seek congressional approval, but as we see, that's not really
a thing now, especially post nine eleven. You know, back in the day, people thought putting pressure on the elected officials through protests probably enough, and you know there's the b to be had to the extent to which that worked for situations like the Vietnam War. But as we've seen with this song and Dance again and again and again, the protests are not hitting like they used to. You know, the response to the protest has been so it's routine
at this point. You know, you just send the police to bash the heads in or bet to get the military, because the movers and the shakers on the people who can actually be reached with these protests, you know, and no matter how peaceful we proclaim our protests to be we're talking about moneyed interests here. You know, a military industrial complex that has to have lyne go up, you know who, Yeah, doesn't have to give a down about
some people walking on the road. You know, the system has grown since the nineteen tens, the nineteen fourteen years. It has grown in such size and complexity to the point where you know, you don't have to care necessarily about a single movement part about a single action of protests.
Yeah, and the two kind of combine. And like what we're seeing in the United Kingdom right now, right like there's the complete dismissal of protests and this like I'm thinking a better word than imprecise, but like the vagueness of the definition of terrorism has allowed the government of the United Kingdom, in combination with the absence of a Bill of Rights in the United Kingdom, right to just be like, oh, Palestine Action and terrorists like you are
the same as the Islamic State, because Palestine Action undertook it in non violent direct action. Right, But it's ludicrous to suggest that that that was terrorism and that it doesn't mean any reasonable definition of the term. But yet, where we were in a stage now where governments can declare anyone the enemy without any particular oversight, and that's the logical conclusion of two decades of this.
Yeah, I mean to an extent, that has always been the case. I think what's different now is that they're not even really attempting to hide behind any sort of consistent principles or consistent standards, you know, because even back back then, you know, the nartists are being called terrorists and being m m true, you know, chastised for that.
Yeah, I guess also, like our class system is more entrenched than it ever has been in a sense, I'm just thinking, like, wars are not fought by the mass of middle class, and like the people who become senators for the most part, right, I mean, in the US and downs, senators will have done military service. It can sort of boost their career opportunities. I get that, But like it is not for the most part, the sons of the of the people who who start the wars who die in the wars.
Right, it's indeed people of.
A different class in a way that even in a distinct way from the era of the World wars. Right, when when large numbers of people of the middle class, especially maybe not the very privileged people that like did die in those wars. And I think like the memory of the First World War probably did have some impact on like the reticence of some politicians to dive into the second one. But we don't really have that now.
Indeed, so we criticize this particular approach of the protest, and I know that the inavertable question is, so what can we even do at this point? And you know, this is why I consider it very important to take a step back and look at what is actually keeping the system going right, and what's keeping the system going
is and has always been labor right. Not to say that labor and labor struggles to be all and and all of our politics, but it is to say that if we want to make a significant impact, that is what we have the greatest control over our labor. And so when I talk about things we can do to affect change, I always had to take it back to
the ongoing process of social revolution. The things you do to oppose and the things you do to propose, you know, on the opposing side of things, that includes counter messaging.
You know, even though we may not have the resources of mainstream media or government communications, We have weight of mouth, we have trust between ourselves, and we have alternative media that can be, especially in this day and age, just as powerful if sparked right, especially considering the fact that the general center and the populist sentiment has, whether coming from a leftist direction or a right dist direction, the
general sentiment has been moving toward anti establishment poll of sics. The anti establishment sort of momentum is what's growing right now, and the issue of course being that sometimes that anti establishment momentum can be hijacked, such as what Trump did, you know, to get himself elected the first time he rode that wave and you know, this whole Epstein situation, we may see that foundation of his base potentially crumbling
apart a bit. But we have to look at what is actually motivating people right now and how they can be reached. An alternative media with an anti establishment mess message is I think one of the better ways to do so, you know, wherever you see it.
He needs to be out.
There, you know, on social media or through a the avenue is calling out the ridiculous Cassius bellues used to
manufacture consent for war. You know, to be wary of potential forced flags can be used as a justification for military action to consistently poke holes in the narratives that have allowed you know, nationalists and and xenophobic sentiments to become the force that they have become today, and of course even engaged in that message, and of course ty not to let campus infect your counter message in either.
You know, that's how you get people who are you know, they gung, who are about a free Palestine, and then they start when they ask them about Ukraine, all of a sudden, it's actually really complicated. It's actually the fault of the US and the EU and na too, and not Russia, even though Russia is the one who actually invaded and is actively killing people in distrial infrastructure as we speak, right.
I Mean, there's conversation to be had about the US and EU and about NATO obviously, but it's very.
Clear, Yeah, it's very uncomplicated who's.
Actually killing people right now?
You know, Yeah, there is one country which is taking children right and trying to like re educate them give them to families in Russia, which is committing murders of civilians. Like we don't have to like resort to like ten year geopolitical trajectories to say that it's wrong and it should be opposed exactly exactly.
And also I want to make this point about counter messaging because it's a consistent gripe I've had, In fact, one of the main reasons I started my channel in the first place. With your comment message in whether it's in person or on the internet or wherever, does stay perpetually on the back foot, you know, the words don't just counter message? Yeah, you know, right now, And it's
what irritates me so much. The right wing sets the conversation. Yeah, you know, you have people they say, oh, we want to talk about critical race theory, and then everybody's talking about critical race theory because they talk to or they want to target trans people, and all of a sudden, we have to scrabble to respond to all their erroneous and ridiculous claims about trans people. That comets messages is important, is important, but it cannot be all that we do, right, Yeah,
and this is a bit how to let feel. But you know, of course I'm not the one who is partialty liketoral approaches. But you can see some of that not just counter message in but also actively messaging taking place with Zora Mum. Danny's strategy, you know, when you look at how he speaks, how he addresses some of
the badly the arguments are made against him. His rhetorical strength and popularity in part lies on his refusal to carry on the conversation on the enemies too, you know, so they will go at him for something and he's going to spit it right back around owned to talking about the things that it's just really matter to people to set the conversations to get people to respond to that, because all other response is toward him have been trying to distract from his actual messaging and his ability to
steal on message as something I find really admirable, despite you know, my concerns about the investment of energy and electoral strategies.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, there are certain things we can admire about these people if we don't agree with everything. And I do think like in that sense, something I think about a lot with like messaging and countermessaging, especially
around war. It's like I spent some time in the Anes and what people call Java, and like one of the framings that I've consistently seen and it's mostly in like the lib leaning mass media, I guess is that people went to Rejaba to fight against IS or Dash or Isis, whatever you want to call it, right, and like in doing so, that is how the revolutionary Jarba is not understood by most people, right, and they have taken the power away from it in their framing of it,
because people didn't just go. Some people did go. Justify I s right that there. They went because they saw what I was doing. They understood its inhumane and they wanted that to stop, and that's admirable. But people also went because they saw what people were building in Rajava and they thought that was beautiful and they wanted to
defend it, and that's admirable too. And sometimes the messaging around specifically ra Java, Mi and Mar to an extent right there international volunteers there too, and of course that like folks from the Amma who have picked up weapons who never thought they would, and they didn't just do it to oppose the Hunter. They did it because like in there, despite all the horrible things about war then
and like it should be avoided at all costs. In the conflict, they have built liberated spaces and they've experienced freedom, they have experienced how that feels and they've built a revolution that is beautiful in spite of the war, not not because of it, and they want to defend that.
And I think that's a messaging that we should we should consider, right, like, because the messaging that everything has to be against something bad always sort of it presupposes that that they can't have been something good, and in some cases there has been something good, and like, we won't fully understand what was happening there unless we understand that. And I think we should push back on that messaging what we see it, especially in the great legacy media.
Absolutely absolutely, and that really connects to the you know, the other aspect of the social revolution paradigm, because it's not just about a pousion and so it's proposing that that's something different. Yeah, and that is often far more energizing than simply talking everything that's wrong with the world.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think also for those who maybe have concerns about the risks of oppositional messaging, there's another area where you can direct your energy to support the opposition without necessarily actively being involved in it, you know, because it's not enough to just oppose the system. You have to build something else, and you could be part of that
building something else. You know, swim a message and you want to be able to redirect people's energies to the actual frustrations and interests, you know, to re center the conflict and the lens on the actual divisions of society, such as class, to make money interests known. And you know, even though it's never been easy to be anti war, you know, especially in the center of empire, and in
many ways, technologies today have empowered much greater repression. You know, in Russia, individual and mass protests are met with severe oppression, massive finds, sentences, et cetera. In the US you can face police brutality, censorship, even deportation. And in Israel, well, I haven't seen or heard anything from the Israeli populus in terms of resisting what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. But I know that those who do stand against the
mandatory conscription do face jail time for their refusal. So it's not easy to be anti war, especially in militarized and empire building territories. I get that stress and that worry, that opposition is still necessary, but there's other things. But we can we do it than just message it.
Yeah.
You know, there are things that take on less risk, such as building an alternative, and there are things that take on more risks. Now protests, even peaceful protests, are no longer risk free endeaverts. And I know what most people hear about, you know, we need to push back. They hear, okay, that's all going to as a protest. Honestly, we could use a bit more imagination in this day and age. Like I said, the protest is not hitten
like I used to. It's become like a pressure valve or a tool of passification that could be tolerated for a time and then met with repression the moment it's time to wrap it up. And they have a couple of reasons why protests are not you know, able to do as much. You know, they have the moneyed interests. You know, they can end up being divided according to
various arguments of a strategy. And I'm sorry to say this, but protests as of late haven't accomplished very much besides getting people mutilated or jailed or worse in the past few years. And in fact, a lot of the resources that could be spent you know, building alternatives are being spent instead on you know, paying people's bonds and getting people out of jail, prison, relieve that sort of thing. Not to say those things are not necessary, you know,
don't leave your comrades to trot and jail. But I think we need to consider the free data that we've basically been giving away to the relaying class in the form of pictures, names, addresses, identifying data that they can be used to repress or dis erupt or infiltrate protesters and protesting organizations down the line, as James Herod and
synother James. As James Herod wrote in the Weakness of our Politics of protest, we have been getting some of these critiques of protests from He says, thus, instead of powerfully concentrate in our mental and physical energies on solving this problem to eliminate this obstacle to defeating capitalism, we are taking to the streets once again, mainly protested, merely incased in what is basically mindless active end quote. Later, he says, it's easy to agree on what to protest against.
The list of things that need to be stopped on the capitalism is long, so long, in fact, we don't even need to agree, there's plenty to choose from, so just pick something that suits you. Perhaps this is why I meant so many activists got involved in protesting. It's not so easy though, to figure out what we want to replace capitalism with, to work out convincing arguments about how it will possibly work, and they set about creating such a social world, especially since so little energy has
been devoted to the task end quote. And you know, I get why protests are popular. You know, as he says, it has a low barrier to entry. You just have to show up. And in a society that has been so deliberately atomized, where mass collective action has we made so difficult, protests has become pretty much a very easy avenue to get those things done. Yeah, and you know, protests can work in Sydney instances for limits any goals.
But I think that those uses are diminishing dyd in the cost benefits analysis.
Yeah, I'm just thinking about Like there was a letter Georgi or wil wrote to one of his readers on the subject of anti fascism, where all Well was lamenting that the anti fascism that he was encountering in England. Right in between his participation in the Spanish Civil War and the Second World War was always centered on hate, and like it's sort of an idea. We get the two Minutes of Hate later in nineteen eighty four, right, but maybe it comes from here, And like it never
proposed an alternative. It just said it pointed to something. It said bad, something I've tried not to do in my journalism, right. It is very often we do this with a journalists too. We point something and say bad, and we don't look for the ways that it could become better. And so like protesting could become such an
identity for people like you see it. I'm just thinking of like every time I get sent a link to Instagram, right, which is a platform m I don't really participate on, but I will look at things and they'll be like, oh, San Diego protest news, San Diego protester, so cow protester, And like, I think we should resist that being an identity because we want to build something beautiful as well as oppose what is bad. And if we don't have something beautiful to propose, what are we doing out there?
Exactly exactly? And you know there's room for protests. I don't want to give off the impression that there isn't.
Yeah.
You know, but for all the lovely talk about peaceful protests, that works when there's an actual threat backing up those protests. You know, you don't just do the peaceful protest. You know, Gandhi didn't single handedly win India's independence by march and peacefully. Yeah, you know, there has to be something back, and it's up or else it's going to be very easy to ignore and suppress. Yeah, And I think that protests should
not be our default right now. They are our default, and I think they are better uses of our collective time, energy, and resources, even though protests are very easy compared to some of the things that are more necessary right now. You know, but if protest is where your dead set on funneling your energy, I would just say that you should at least learn de arrest strategies. You know, there are resources online to get some information on that ond
arrest strategies. You can look it up. But if it's possible, if you see the situation playing out, you know, trying not to sit by and let your comrades get pulled away, you know, it is very possible the numbers on your side to prevent the police from harassment targets and taking away people. You know, there's other stuff you can do as well, besides protests that I keep alluding to, because you know, sadly the media is no longer you know, a safe space to share things and depth in some cases.
But just remember the key is actual disruption. You know, the media will not be with you, It'll be trying to get my factor consent on everything that you do, manufacturer consent against any action taken on the things that you do. And the only way to counteract that is to maintain relationships on the ground, to maintain actual local solidarity.
Because once you have those local relationships and that local solidarity, there's no amount of things that the media can do the media could stir up that can prevent the people who see that you're on their side, see that you're stand up for them, to turn attention right. What problem happens is when you don't have any relationships, you don't have any networks, you don't have any community building, You
just doing stuff. The messaging is unclear. You know, That's where I think the media could really pounce on that. I would also say, you know, sabotage you know, hit their pockets. And the main thing, the thing that I've alluded to earlier, is to strike, you know, to organize strikes to use the labor power. Workers power still comes from a participation in production and the threat of withdrawing
our participation. We have to realize that in this time we'll live an in even the effectiveness of strikes have come on the threat in two ways. The first way is that the permanence of employment is not what it used to be. And with the rise and spread of AI, you know, you have to ask yourself how long will strike since certain fields be effective anymore. You know, I have my doubt that EI will ever reach a point
where it can replace people. But honestly, for a lot of these companies, they don't necessarily care about whether it's capable of replacing people or not. They will still try and use it to replace people. So we have to be cognizant of the fact that this is the direction they're pushing things in, and we have to be able
to stand up against that. Before we reach a point where between AI and you know, the nature of temporary work of the gig economy, it becomes was harder and harder to organize ourselves.
Yeah.
The other thing that I've noticed that has made strikeing so difficult and that we have to be aware of, is the pacification of the domestication of unions. Right, there was a time historically where unions were a powerful, influential, revolutionary even for us such as not the case today unfortunately. Yeah, you know, they have some legislation put in place that
many unions are terrified of crossing. Every I has to be dotted, every ts to be crossed, and so the things that would actually make union action the most effective after the things that unions nowadays will refuse to do, sympathy strikes, general strikes, and so, what can we do if we are in an industry where the union is collaboration with management, with union is utterly reformist to the union review U is to actually step up and represent
the people supposed to represent it. And this is where historically wildcat illegalist strikes have had to come into play. Strikes that do not depend upon legality, that do not sit back and wave per mission, that carry far more risk, of course, that are far more difficult to organize, but are going to be necessary if we want to liberate ourselves from this constant capitulation toward the machine. In the article Striking against the Work War Machine by Jeff Schant
and PJ. Lily, this head quote wartime strikes and sabotage party because they're illegal and unsanched of nature, bring rank and file workers together outside of union structures. Workers have to make crucial decisions work for this strike directly in face to face meetings or on the picquet lines. Bureaucrats who are left to their fundamental role of broken with the bosses can be relegated to the sidelines, and such situations. In Germany in nineteen seventeen, illegal strikes helped us sweep
the union structures right out of workplaces. Strikes increasingly took on an anti union as well as anti boss character, with wildcats occurring in crowing numbers throughout the Armistice and beyond. So I wanted to of course pull on this example because this is not a unique issue. Right Even historically, where unions have stood against the struggle of workers, against WAW or against you know, actually defending the class interests, the rank and file have had to organize themselves accordingly.
So that's also something to keep in mind. And last, but not least. I just wanted to see to Stroy briefly on the proposed side of the social revolution equation when it comes to anti war struggle, and as usual, this is going to take solidarity materially, not just saying that we stand in sor diarity with such and such and such, actually share an aid, share a notes, support and refugees and going fully there, because this, I think is where a lot of our energy needs to be
right now. Our efforts to oppose are going to be for the most part, to us as long as we don't have an underlying structure that we are building upon that we are seken to defend and to Expand you know, we are not at a position right now where we pose much of a threat yet, and we also have to consider that merely posing a threat is not going
to liberate us by itself. So I wanted to consider, as we, you know, wrap up this episode, what you can do to put forward out all seriative to actually try to create the new social arrangements that we think
should replace capitalist, statist, militarist order. And this is something that I talk about on my channel, of course, I talk about building the commons, building alternative media, well sense of the economy and developing all powers or drives and our consciousness and so you can check that out if you'd like. Unfortunately, this is it is happening here and don't forget. You could check out the YouTube, the picture on et cetera. All power to all the people.
Peace, Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. My name is Daniel Kurd. I'm a writer, analyst, and researcher of Palestinian and air politics. I'm an associate professor of political science and a senior nonresident Fellow at the Arab Center Washington. Today we'll be speaking with Charity, the policy lead for Oxfam. Our discussion will cover oxtam's work in occupied passing in territories and the current crisis in a distribution we are recording end of July July twenty seventh,
twenty twenty five. NPR reported in May of this year that Gaza has already reached Phase four of the Integrated Food Security phase classification. The IPC just coordinated out of the UN Food and Agriculture Organization and an organization called the Famine Early Warning Systems Network.
So what does this all mean?
Phase four means emergency as NPR rights in there may report hardships deepen, food gaps widen, and people resort to really extreme forms of coping. So the Famine Early Warning Systems Network does not have a presence in Gaza at the moment. This is their best guess. Phase five is when they declare a famine. We're seeing very terrible images in the media and on our phone screens about the level of deprivation in Gaza at the moment because aid has been blocked off by the Israeli government.
Writing for Al Ja Zero just a few.
Days ago, former UN official Munzakhrane accuses the UN of not declaring famine despite overwhelming evidence, because he says officials are worried about their careers and possibly worried about antagonizing the US. But regardless of whether it's Phase four or
Phase five, the situation in Gaza is dire. In July twenty seventh today, when we're recording, there's reporting that there might be air drops, that the trucks on the Egyptian border are moving towards Gaza, after the Israeli government has received a lot of pressure over the ongoing aid crisis. But of course that may be too late for many gazas. As I said, we're speaking with Bush today, who will talk to us about her work from the vantage point of ox Jam.
Bush, thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for having me.
So let's begin with first describing Oxfam's work and occupied Palsitate territories.
Yeah.
Sure, we've been here since nineteen fifty six. We have offices in Ramala and Jerusalem and Gaza and also was originally set up as an organization to fight famine, you know, the first kind of famines that we've seen globally. That's the originally why Alxlam was got to set up. And then so a lot of its programming is around water and sanitation, food security, lively goods, working with farmers. A big part of our program is water and sanitation, helping
for example, farming communities, providing them with irrigation pipelines. You know, it could be agricultural inputs needed for growing their crops. It could be technical support to farmers to support them and growing, for example, vegetables. How do you grow crops
of vegetables around date trees? You know, So it's kind of that kind of work in terms of the food security component of that we have a big part of our work is with women's organizations, women's cooperatives, women's farming cooperatives as well.
Especially in the West Bank.
And then a lot of a lot of work with kind of the relevant ministries and relevant trade unions on for example, agricultural insurance, so getting you know, trying to get insurance for farmers in case their crops or are are ruined or sabotaged or damaged for example by settler violence, et cetera. So there's kind of like a piloting kind of program where we're looking at the potential of providing
insurance to the farming sector here and palastline. Other things could be could look like, you know, small grants to start a small kind of business women for example, ceramics, women's cooperatives and farming. I mean, so a lot of it worked like this, and most of our operations are actually run through partners. So we have about ninety partners kind of across the OFFI fied filesting territory, and about eighty to ninety hoard of our operations are actually completely
implemented through partners. But of course after seventh of October, our programming really drastically kind of shifted to fully humanitarian where you know, we are now basically providing high eigiene kits, food parcels, some agricultural inputs as well. Where we could you know, set in Gaza, it looks like setting up latrines, hand washing, state like mobile stations. It can be like water trucking. I mean, it's it's changed, you know, depending
on the access that we've had. So for example, since March this year, we've not been able to enter anything because of Israel's full total siege on Gaza, so nothing kind of entered. So our operations look like psychosocial support to women, young girls and shelters, trucking water from one area to another where we've felt like these communities potentially needed water or had a little access to water. It
could look it looked like a cash for work. We do a big, big, big, big part of our both now in the West Bank and in Gaza is providing cash for work. So for example, we have daily workers that will remove solid waste with their bare hands unfortunately
because there's no materials to remove waste in Gaza. But then they would receive like kind of daily daily rates in order to get paid and then there's like cash vouchers for the most vulnerable, where they can you know, have a voucher in a store and they can you know, purchase items that we've read for example with the store owner to that you know, people can purchase with our with our kind of cards.
So it's very.
Versatile, versatile and especially in last years, had to adapt and change, you know, very quickly and flexibly depending on the situation what's available in the markets.
But that's kind of like what our programming looks like across the territory.
Yeah, thank you for explaining that, and it brings me to I mean, you touched on it a little bit, but it brings me to a second question that I think is important for listeners to to understand is how has the war in post October seventh really impacted that the restrictions that the really government is imposing.
So we know there's a stage in Gaza, but also in the West Bank.
Absolutely there is so much happening. How has that impacted Oxygen's work. It's completely restricted.
US and not just US, it's all of the international kind of sector, including UN agencies.
I mean, we know what they did with in Owa. We'll maybe explain that.
Yeah, I'll all, I mean Israel, the Government of Israel's kind of attacks or let's say, attacks on the humanitarian civic space. It's been a long standing policy of THEIRS and started well before seventh of October. It's gotten just you know, much tighter, much more restrictive since. But you know,
this goes back decades. I would say kind of the most notorious development in shrinking space we call it shrinking space is twenty twenty one when they declare six organizations Palestinian civil society organizations mostly are human rights organizations that some of the most notorious and well known human rights
organization where they're designated as terrorists organizations. So that was kind of the first big you know where many of those partners, those six partners were actually partners of international organizations. So you know, we found ourselves kind of advocating for continuing our support to these six despite the designation by Israel. Never you know, and there was never, of course evidence provided by the Israeli government as to what evidence they had,
why would they deem these organizations terrorist organizations? But you know, they continued to operate under very very difficult circumstances. Their offices were rated, their assets were confiscated, but you know, they're still operational and we're still certainly supporting them. And of course, you know shrinking space or the restrictions on humanitarian civic space, it translates into, you know, into so
many different restrictions. It could be you know, restrictions on permits, restrictions on what crossings you're able to use as a humanitarian you know, whether you can go through that crossing or another.
It can be visa restrictions.
And we started seeing that these are restrictions even before the war. And after the war, of course everything kind of changed and now we're facing and I'm talking more about like legal restrictions in terms of our work, and then I can talk more about like the siege and the actual blockade of humanitarian aid in Ta Gaza, which is you know, effectively completely restricted in our operations and has dismantled really the humanitarians sector in its entirety and
has reverberating impacts to the rest of the terrritory. But for us, I think the first kind of sign of turmoil was when there was already a decision but nothing had been kind of formally communicated of a new registration process for international organizations that started already in twenty twenty four, where the civil Administration announced to our respective organizations that there will be a new registration procedures Israeli Simple Administration,
Israeli Civil Administration. And so it was only kind of ten months later that the criteria was kind of presented to us, and only a year later that the criteria actually came into effect. But in that time where they were announcing these new measures, there were lots of visa denials. Permits of course, were completely non existent for humanitarians. So for example, you know, I had a permit to Gaza
for six months, that of course stopped. All of our staff in the West Bank had permits to travel both to Gaza and in Israel. Those stopped on the seventh of October, and say, and vice versa. Are our colleagues in Gaza who had permits to come to Israel to travel through the Allen b Bridge because of course, you know, policies don't have an airport, so they have to travel through ALLENB to travel through Ammen.
Those also stopped.
So that's one other kind of like you know, measure that was taken against international organizations. And then when the new registered rules were made public and the criteria was made public, there was a new there's a new ministry set up called the Ministry of Dyspora and something Affairs, I know, Dyspora Affairs. I forget the full name of the ministry, but it's it's an interministerial committee that you know,
it's made of basically thucks. You know, if you look at the background of some of these people that are in the committee, I mean, you know, it's and they are now deciding of.
The registration of international organizations.
And the criteria is onerous, it's political, it's big, and you know, even even it crosses some of our red lines in terms of organization.
I mean, one of one of the I think the most.
Contentious criteria is submitting staff lists and all of the information of our staff to the Israeli authorities, which is something we never had to do before. It's not something that is actually in any other context, It's not abnormal for an authority or country or states to ask, you know, who is your staff working for this organization you're seeking
registration from. But obviously because of the you know, unrecedented number of humanitarian workers that have been targeted and indiscriminately targeted as well. In Gaza, we've got more than four hundred humanitarian workers killed. At this point, we are unable to submit our staff lists because of you know, we
have no guarantees of protection. Even though we have guarantees under protect you know, international law, this is not applied when it comes to Gaza and in Israel's conducts, and it's in the hostilities against humanitarian workers in humanity in space. So that's one of the criteria. But there's also other criteria where, for example, we would be revoked our registration or not re registered if we are seen to support some of the designated organizations that were designated early on,
which most of our organizations do. So many of us are facing about to face basically being deregistered in Israel and losing our presence in Jerusalem, which is you know, has such a big implications, not because you know, we're so desperate to have presence in Jerusalem, but because it says a lot about what the future of East Jerusalem means.
Because you're moving aener wha, you're removing the INGOs, and you're moving all the program and the support that goes to organizations that are operating in Jerusalem, providing legal services to people that are losing their homes, that are getting their homes demolished on a daily basis, legal services for settler attacks that happen also in East Jerusalem, and school provision of school services, educational items, educational activities, summer caps,
you know, I mean, et cetera, et cetera. The list goes on that will be removed. And that's kind of you know, it's working now in parallel with the annexation kind of plan that Israel has been threatening and implementing at the same time, so you know, everything is moving
towards this annexation. It also has fast implications because many of our organizations operate in areas C because the most vulnerable communities you know, are in area and so we always, you know, we as part of our programming is obviously reaching the most vulnerable Palestinians and those that need to help and support the most and so annexing areas CE and de registering at the same time de registering us from Israel means that we will also have very a
lot of difficulty assing these communities and accessing areas see as we mention here in organizations, we've not had visas for international staff for since the.
Beginning of the war.
And then when you look at you know, Gaza, so this is kind of like looking at the West Bank and what is how it's evolving in the West Bank. But then you know the fact that we would be deregistered, would effectively need that we cannot operate in Gaza. Need because you have to have an Israeli registration in order to be able to bring goods in inside Gaza. And so if you're deregistered, you can't bring in goods into Gaza. This tribulation of the humanitarians civic spaces is all encompassing
in Gaza. Of course, it looks like our materials have been systematically and deliberately denied, rejected, delayed, you know, over the course of the last twenty months. But of course, adding it's worse since March second, when Israel imposed it's total sea jong Gaza and basically has completely sidelined the
un IGOs and policy in the civil society. And since then we've not been able to enter anything in Gaza, and I doubt that we will be able to enter anything moving forward, especially that the registration kind of window ends in September. Beginning of September, that's when we'll finally know who is going to be registered who's not. But I expect for an organization like OXBAM, it's part of the registration process. It's very vague, so we don't know
how they will apply it. But there's something about basically calling again, you know, calling out or speaking out or calling for accountability of individual soldiers and members.
Of the IDEF. So what that means I don't know.
But we call for accountability every day because it's part of our mandate or not just an operational organization, where a rights based organization, and so we have a mandate to also you know, where we witness violations of human rights or of international law, it is our mandate to speak out on it. And so there's no operations without that. So that's where we're at right now. It's an incredibly difficult space. It is of course deliberate. This is a
deliberate policy of Israel. That is, you know, it's carried out against the kind of human humanitarians, civic space for years. It's also there's another law, there's a law that's against Israel a human rights organization where it will start taxing. It's really human rights organization that are receiving foreign funding by fifty to eighty percent or something like that. So it's just it's it's you know, it's deliberate, it's thematic.
We have been the only ones in Gaza that have been able to actually report independently on what's happening in Gaza, like the humanitarians happen, not even the journalists, because of course, you know, I can argue that, yes, Palestine journalists are independent, but you know, the most of the world would probably disagree with that. So really, I mean the independent kind of eyes and the neutral eyes, or let's say part impartial eyes, I won't say neutral happened the humanitarians and
UN agencies. Sidelining us means that we'll also see a reduction of quality reporting on what's actually happening in Gaza.
So it's terrifying.
It's an attack on our ability to even understand the level of the problem. Absolutely that is being left in the wake of this war, which of course is ongoing. But also I think it's really important. I mean, the things you just described, I think it's really important for listeners to understand this the AID question, the question of these humanitarian organizations and what's happening to them, whether it's the registration through the Ministry of Daspreaffairs.
And I think combating anti Semitism is its full name.
That's it.
That's Lacky should have red.
So yeah, I mean there are so many problems with this ministry and it has been even internally criticized by by Tel Aviv University for.
Example, Yeah, or even at see members of the government itself. By the way, I think there was a there was something about somebody in Israel government not attending the intermn is Serial Committee meeting, you know, because it was wanting to be associated to it.
So yeah, it's a very problematic committee.
But I mean if this kind of committee is responsible for registering Internet you know, international organizations and humanitarian organizations, then there's all the blockade of AID. All of these are parts of the same ethnic cleansing strategy that what we're seeing in Gaza, whatether you want to call it ethnic cleansing or genocide.
You know, people are being eradicated.
We're seeing large scale displacements in the West Bank, and as you mentioned, if these organizations also stop existing in Jerusalem. We'll see Jerusalem next, not piecemeal the way that we've been seeing it possible, absolutely, you know, a more aggressive way. And so I really think it's important to kind of underscore for listeners that this is part and parcel of an annexation and ethnic cleansing plan that people from the Religious Zionist Party have been saying since the early twenty tens.
Bazilos Motrich, finance minister today had the decisive plan that said, you know, you either surrender or transfer, and we're at that level.
They are transferring, they are making sure that that happens, and they are in the West Bank as well.
I mean, you know, it's quiet and all eyes aren't Gaza, but I mean we've seen displacement of entire communities in the last few weeks only, let alone the largest numbers have forcibly displaced Palestinian since nineteen sixty seven in the West Bank this year and in the refugee camps that have been attacked exactly, so you know, and again, I mean, you know, you can look at the history of smear campaigns against Ohawa by these really authorities. I mean, that's
just in itself. You know the services that ohwa provide. You know, we have to re emphasize like education, health services, I mean, you know, shelter, oh no, what provides key services that the Pelstine authority is none to respond to? What is going to happen to all of these people when you know and already know what So listeners, electricity cut off and real love.
This is our lives. Yeah, so we might have to restart some of that answer, that's fine. Yeah, So did you want to pick up where you lost up?
I was, yeah.
I mean the point is is that this is you know, a long standing policy by Israel. It's just like very much accelerated like every other policy if there is when it comes to you know, forcible displacement, collective punishment, you know, detensions. I mean, everything is at a record high and accelerating
so quickly with this. You know, right wing, far right wing government that's you know, has zero checks and balances, zero nobody holds them accountable to anything, and so you know they're able to get away with all of this.
So I mean, my my sense is that you know, very soon you will no longer see kind of the long standing organizations that have been here for decades that have very much understood the context very well and have understood that it's impossible to do the work that we do without also bearing witness and speaking out on what
we're witnessing. And I think the UN and it's in that way, you know, even the United Nations, where in Pelsline, has made sure that the States committed to that mandate because of how important it is to speak out on what you're seeing around you. I think like that's purely I think, like, you know, we're the only ones that are able to witness and record independently what we're seeing on a daily day basis. And I think the UN
has been incredible in keeping a record of that. I mean, I think they started recording in two thousand and eight, so it's like eighteen years now almost of monitoring violations all across the territory. And if it wasn't for the work that the UN has done in that, we wouldn't be able to say that there is a genocide being carried out in Gaza, or that the risk of ethnic
cleansing has risen exponentially in the West Bank. The reason why we're able to say this is because we're able to see the patterns and the data, and you know, you can contest the data. But you know, even you were talking about the IPC, the IPC is not even reflective of what's really happening, and they say it themselves. But you know, of course the media the way the media kind of focuses on what the results because you know,
you only have time for sound bites. But if we read the IPC alerts, it's clear that one they're always delayed, so they're always talking about a time that's already passed and we're way, we won't beyond that. And two it says that it doesn't have access to Gaza. But look at the testimonies, you know, just like just reading the testimonies that some of our organizations have recorded in the last week, just talking about our own colleagues and how
they're facing starvation themselves. I mean, I think the testimonies speak to themselves on what is happening, guys. And I don't need the IPC to tell me that there's a classification four or five. It's never going to declare famine when it's not there, Like, there's never going to be a time where the IPC because that's not even the role of the IPC.
The role of the IPCs not to declare FAM and the role the IPC is just.
To collect the data and publish the data and then it's the role of the UN or another international body to do so. So we're not going to see if I'm at declaration because we don't have access, and so you know, we're not going to be able to say that with confidence because the IPC is never going to be able to publish that data.
But I don't think it matters.
I think what matters is what we're seeing on the ground, what's being reported, and you know, I mean it's undeniable really by the pictures themselves. I mean that the videos and the pictures that are coming out of guys are just speak for themselves really. So it's definitely unprecedented times for us, and it's going to be a very very interesting and frightening, terrifying here to be frank.
Yeah, No, I mean, as I said at the beginning, and there are of course critiques as of the limitations of the UN, but this idea that they are wanting organizations as a condition of registering them to somehow not bear witness to what is happening and not to write reports about what's happening. It's a way of hobbling the ability of actually creating policies, like if you want to talk about famine, or if you want to talk about poverty, as OXGM does, how could you solve it without talking
about the root cause? In every way, in every direction, the Israeli government is attempting to hobble the ability of international organizations of the Palestinians themselves to be able to solve the root causes of these problems. Yeah.
Absolutely, I mean it will have to be fine, creative ways, just like you know, our Pulstinian Civil Society partners that you have been also designated have had to find, you know, ways to continue doing their work. But you know, I mean even them, you know, they've lost funding, They've had to reduce their operations, They've had to reduce their field officers that go to the field and do this work.
So I mean, I I it's it's so uncertain, but I think the fact that many of these organizations have been here for so long understand so deeply the context. I think organizations will also do whatever they can in order to ensure that they continue the important work here and find ways to continue to work.
I don't know how.
It's really a new time for us, like we've never been there before, so we don't know what it looks like how we're going to be able to continue our work, but we're committed to that, so we will find, you know whatever. I don't want to say loophole because you know there are none, but we'll find whatever way.
To continue to continue kind of.
Being here and being present and remain remaining present because I think it's also part of our commitment to the work that we've been doing in OPT for decades.
So yeah, yeah, I.
Think maybe we should end on a discussion about the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. I mean, I've already mentioned it in a previous episode, so I encourage listeners to look into that, but I you know, I think it's important we discuss what is this foundation and what is the impact has had on people in Gaza and on international organizations that are already doing this work.
Yeah, okay, the GHF for Gaza Humanity and Foundation slash GHF. I don't like talking about it as such because it's the issue, of course, is that's one of the issues.
But GHF is part of many actors, okay, and it's not GHF.
GHF is a facade for many actors that you know, the US and Israeli's isn't as really planned. And I don't think we need to we cannot, you know, I know there's US military actors in GHF at you know, the border and shooting at people. But this isn't a really plan, okay, and we have to dub it as such. This plan actually came into We started hearing about this
plan a year and a half ago. It was maybe May last year we saw the General Islands plan on what they wanted to do in the north when they started the ethnic cleansing campaign in the north of Gaza where they besieged the north and tried to force everybody south. The idea then was already they had already were already hearing about something called humanitarian bubbles. And the bubbles are
the sites of what it's what's what's become the sites. Right, But this idea of what has been floating around for more than eighteen months. It's just that nothing kind of transpired until May. I guess that's when May the operation started. So it's really launched. This as an authorization mechanism. This is how it was originally kind of and that would expand basically Israeli military control over how aid enters, moves
within and is distributed inside Gaza. And of course I mean that and on its own is a clear attempt to instrumentalize humanitarian aid. So you know, and I think it's it's it's it's very important to clarify. You know, our organizations we operate and there's extremely rigorous standards and mechanisms where we're ensure the aid is not diverted. And I think a diversion, you know, it's been talked about like Hamas eight divers A diversion exists everywhere. Its exists
in every crisis we work in. Like it's something that is part of you know, crisis mode, like this is where when there's a crisis, when there's chaos, that's where there's space for informal actors to start popping up. So it's a symptom of every crisis around the world. And so you know, it's not just a Gaza thing. So we have totalcols on how we can ensure that a
diversion doesn't happen in operations. And of course as humanitarians, we would never accept military or profit driven intermediaries overriding what we call principled aid delivery, because it basically means that you're expanding military control over aid operations by an actual party to the conflict you know, which, of course, risks that aid will never reach the most vulnerable you know, of course at a time when it was most needed.
So from our perspective, there is no scenario where we would accept any attempts to militarize and privatize humanitarian aid, whether it's a GAZO or anywhere else, because such actions actually biolate international humanitarian law, but also they undermine the core principles of humanitarian law, which are in partiality, independence, in humanity. These are principles that guide all of our work.
And of course, what is the most dangerous about this model is not only the massacres that have occurred near daily at these food distribution sites run by the GJEP and other actors. It's it's set such a dangerous precedent where occupying powers around the world will now be able to dictate the terms of aid based on their political agendas and their military goals. That is what's effectively now happened is that if it's happened in gays of why can it not happen in Uganda and d Orski and Sudan?
And I want to also take it a little back. Let's talk about the peer. The peer last year is exactly the same.
It's the same thing. It's an international.
Company called Fogbow run by former US military veterans and soldiers and others, other actors that you know, spent three hundred and twenty million dollars on a floating pier that brought virtually nothing in and in fact was used for one rescue mission, rescue operation by special forces where they entered.
I think it was the way that camp the refugee camp at the time and were able to obviously, yeah, rescue hostages, but kill I mean, you know a dozens in that operation using the peer, and hence why we're like we do not we would distance ourselves and from the beginning distance ourselves from the peer.
There's no difference with the distribution sites.
It's the same kind of idea that with logistics we can we can address a political issue. The issue of Gaza is not an issue of logistics. Something you enter angios don't know how to do the work policies, So tell us the use of society has been responding to the civilian needs in Gaza from before the war, right, you know, eighty percent of the Gaza population was dependent on humanitarian assistance before the war. So, I mean, you know, it's not that we didn't know how to do it,
it's that we were prevented from doing it. We were deliberately prevented from doing it. So it's a political decision. It's not a logistical decision that prevents us from doing
our work in Gaza. And so branch thing Israel control over who receives the aid, where they received the aid, and from who has basically turned what is relief what should be relieved to the civilian population is actually a tool of coorsion because what we saw is massacres, people being shot indiscriminately at I mean, we heard doctor Nick
Maynard yesterday. Yesterday he came back from Gaza a week ago where we've heard of children being shot in the testicles at these distribution sites, you know, and no one he mentioned on the same date he saw half a dozen boys with the same injury, sniper shot, sniper shots
in the testicles at food distribution sites. So what's happened now is that what Israel has done is that it blurred the line between what humanitarian assistance is, what a military objective is, and of course putting the civilian helstine civilians and aid workers as well, because aid workers, we know some of our colleagues in different organizations that but even themselves I've had to go to these food distribution sites because there's nothing and we're unable to even support our.
Own staff at risk.
And of course, I mean this entire system has eroded any protections that are guaranteed to aid workers and humanitarian responses under international law and under the Geneva Conventions.
So it's not only that it killed people and that it's harmed Palestinians, but.
It actually it's also a complete disregard for international law, complete disregard of international law. And at the same time, I think what people failed to remember is that at the same time as this plan of the distribution sites was set being set up in the south, at the same time Israel every two days was evacuating forcibly displaced, saying basically the population towards the south right and in less than two months, we've got almost a thousand Palestines
that were killed. But also and in that movement of the population towards the south, because that's the only place that they had food, right, So, you know, this is not protection.
This is complete coercion. You know, when you move aid into.
Fence, supervise spaces under militaries, really military control. Frankly, and what we saw from the pictures recalls some of the darkest chapters of humanitarian.
Failure of our history. It's not protection, it's coercion.
And you know, no countries, nobody should ever support a model that is basically treating civilians as prisoners. And that's not what humanitarian aid is about. Humanitarian responses have to be guided by international law. It has to remain voluntary, it has to be grounded in the dignity of the people, and it has to be delivered impartially not shaped by
Israel's occupation or israel siege or Israel's military control. So not only has this scheme reinforced military control over the God's ship, it has completely dehumanized posts by design, like Palasinians are only worth a box of food. That's that's what basically essentially What has happened is that we have reduced a humanitarian response that addresses hospitals, medical care, water sanitation, wastewater shelter. It goes right to dignity, to a box
of flour. You know that you can get killed getting or you get killed. And not only that, it's the first come, first serf. You know, it's whoever's the strongest. It's the survival of the fittest. That's not what a humanitarian aday is about. We're supposed to meet the most vulnerable. We need to reach the pregnant moms, the people with di stabilities, the number of record number of amputees in Gaza, the record number of disabled people than Gaza right now.
Children.
Half of Gaza are children. They are part of some of the most vulnerable sections of society. Age should be going to them. They don't have They shouldn't have to come to us walk for you know, I mean some people have said twenty kilometers they've had to walk to go to these distribution sides in the middle of the night in sand dunes. They have to duck because otherwise they might get shot by sniper shot. And then when the gates of hell open of these you know, fence zones,
whatever you want to call them. I don't even like calling them distribution sites because they're not distribution sizes. It implies that there's some sort of like system to it. There's no system. It's literally the gates to hell. And then everybody flows into the you know, floods, and we've heard of people carrying knives to protect themselves because they're getting looted because's not enough of course food.
And then there are gangs that are being weaponized by.
The stop you know so.
And actually what I what I was saying to people is that actually, what GDHF has created is created the perfect it's the perfect recipe for armed gangs and a diversion to occur.
Like it's actually like providing the perfect environment.
For these informal actors, gangs, criminals to prosper to you know, this is you're creating that kind of environment.
Because let's just be very directed. This is not about aid no, of course not no, It's not coercion. It's about coercion. I mean, as you mentioned from the very beginning, it was about sequestering Palestinians.
And they said it actually and by the way they said it, it's really work. Cabinet has said that, you know, and it's like we have to take things that face values. Sometimes they said it, they've been seeing it for the last year. We just you know, waited until it happened on the ground to be able to now say it and confirm it. But this was their plan from the beginning, and there was nothing implied. It was very explicit, right, no, I mean, very very.
Clear, and it really frustrates me personally because you know, Arab media of Palestinian journalists, Palestinians on the ground testimonies would would say, we're being arrested at these sites, they're using facial recognition, they're very much politicizing AID And it took forever for us to be even be able to say it, to be able to even be able to report on it, until Western media sources confirmed yesterday a number of children were released saw that from being arrested
at the at these age sites, and I couldn't mention that in things that I wrote because they didn't believe Kalestinian testin I mean.
The GHF contractor themselves themselves have admitted to what is happening and everything that we've been seeing and saying and you know and warning. I mean, you know, I'd like to say as well. I mean, I want to I want to underscore actually, humanitarians have been underlining this very very explicitly to everybody since before they were even set.
So you know, I can see for the clear conscience that we did what we needed and we could you know, what we could do, and we did warn that this would happen and this would be the result, and now.
Here we are right. No, I mean, it's it's absolutely important, Pauline. So I want to mention to listeners that I will put in the show notes a lot of you know, these citations that you reporting that close to a thousand people have died at these sites. The doctor Nick Maynard, speaking to Channel four News in Britain about what he saw.
I also want to point listeners to a volume that was released called Suppressing Dissent, edited by Zaha Hassan and h. A. Hellier, because full disclosure, I do have a chapter in that book, but it's about the shrinking civic space prior to October seventh and the dynamics that we have we have seen,
you know, basically playing out at this point. Thank you so much, Bushel for coming and speaking with us under such severe circumstances and explaining I think really succinctly the dangers of this moment, because what is happening in Gaza will change the world.
It will change everywhere, and.
It already is I think, you know, I would tell listeners go look at AP's article on fog Bow and Uganda and Soudan. Remember you're seeing it. It's not even that it will change the world. We're already seeing the precedent that Gaza has set for other humanitarying crises and for these military actors and private contractors to profit from misery like that's that's essentially what is happening.
That's happening.
So you know, I would also direct you to that article from AP that came out a couple of weeks ago about the same companies operating in Gaza and you know, being complicit in the atrocities that we're seeing unfolded Gaza now operating in other contexts and prices humanitearing.
Crises really terrible breaking world.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, Well, thank you so much.
And thanks Dan, thank you, and hopefully see you soon and talk to you soon.
Take care.
Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's Media Today, and I'm very lucky to be joined by Bryce from No More Deaths And what we're going to talk about today is this really excellent piece of data visualization and research that depicts a very sad topic, which is the deaths of migrants entering the United States. And Bryce, I know he's done a lot of work on this, So welcome to the show.
Bryce, thank you.
Yeah, you're welcome.
I guess maybe we can start off. I'm looking at this data visualization on a map right now, and we'll have links in the show notes for other people who want to look at it. Can you explain, like what this data set is?
Yeah, So we collected through a bunch of different sources, medical examiners, Justices of the Peace, SHERIFFISAL partner CBPS owned data, just a bunch of data on individual micrant deaths along the US Mexico border. And so this is different data through each source, but generally we tried to get a lot of demographic data, location data, posit death than at least some form of the instagram laertive to kind of get a little bit of the context on how you produce people guide.
Yeah, if people are looking at the map.
They can see various colored dots, right, and they can click on that dot and that will give them the fiscal year the border trail sector. In some cases you'll see like the type of death, maybe a gender and age, things like that. I know, looking at it, like it's one of those things that maybe is more emotionally difficult to view if you're more familiar, Like I can look at these dots and I can think of places I've been.
I can even think of that the day I was there, and it's quite it's impactful to see that all these people have died in places I know so well. Perhaps we can explain, like the scale of this is huge, right, do you know how many exactly how many data points there are on here?
I think there's something like solve a thirteen thousand. Yeah, it's fast, which overall is like not a great sort of liking a cater of how many people have actually died or even know how many people could be reported to have diet just because the Texas dated all is so wonky.
Yeah, let's get into that. Then let's talk about maybe the sources for this data, and then maybe perhaps how your estimates are much high even with some of the emissions, Like the data that you have tends to show under reporting, So like can you explain first, like where does this data come from and how how did you get it? You were saying the Texas numbers are lower, but can you explain how like there are these multiple jurisdictions and how you can't just like ask someone for this information.
Yeah, there's your people were able to disask for it.
Well, generally it all comes from formal public records requests from medical examiners. When we're lucky because medical examiners usually have really good, reasonly shapable data.
So so we did for San Diego County.
Yeah, they're very good.
Pima County are the stated in Mexico, al Paso. Other places have a coroner that are associated with or sheriff department, and that's usually a little dice year they're a little more.
Reluctant to give up records.
The Imperial County or Yuma County and then Texas it's just like a medical legal nightmare. So there's if smaller counties don't have medical examiners, they just had Justices of the.
Peace, which are part of like the courts, and.
They'll go out and investigate deaths and if an autopsy is needed, they'll send it off to another county to get an autopsy. There's a huge amount of counties in Texas like this. So that data all came from this researcher, Stephanie Luister from the University of Texas Austin, who is working on a different project, but was gracious enough to share.
Everything that she had collected.
But that was like just a huge amount of work physically going to each of these counties looking at what vapor records from justices of the peace, writing down all that data. There's some that comes from like Sheriff's department, some that comes from various other sources, so the Texas
data and some for example, Wegg County Medical Examiner. They don't give up their data to anybody, and there's a lot of issues with them potentially like not having actually performed autopsy on a lot of autopsies on a lot of migrants, and there's some potential bookcases about that going on.
But yeah, so.
Texas is really messing and a lot of it you'll notice, like Texas has.
A lot of the purple dots.
Yeah, the purple dots on their location data from Border Patrols database.
Yeah, and so that ends in twenty eighteen.
So we have data possible needs in border patrol over not location data. Yeah, and so a lot of Texas on that being that's just the Border patrol data unless we have love specific access to that place. Is Justice to the Pace data. It's so the Texas data is pretty limited for about reason.
Yeah, you can see a sort of very few red dogs, which which are your your other data sources like in Texas aside from it, So maybe Brooks County you're able to get Justice to the Peace data there because yeah, the density is profound.
Yeah, it's just the So it's the Brooks County Checks Department that actually puts together that data, and they're really keen on the whole thing. Okay, And partially it's because the data exists, but partially it really wills just to reach fluster death in that area because of a checkpoint south of there where people will get dropped off south of the checkpoint pipe around and it's just like massive, massive open grade yard in Brooks County.
Jeez. Yeah, I don't think I spent much time in that part of Texas, but certainly, like some of these other ones that I'm much more familiar with. Let's talk about the CBP data, right, you mentioned it there. One of the things you've found was that CBP has a systemic issue with undercounting deaths, right, yeah, So where does that come from?
So I've heard from I guess for years Humane Borders and Pema County Medical Examiner has been documenting this since at least twenty fourteen. The major undercount on Border patrols data. But something I've here a lot is just that it's cases where border patrol wasn't personally involved in the search, and that they had changed their counting system to only be counting in cases where they were involved.
And I think that may account for some of it.
But in order to compare these deaths, border patrols data is just really gnarly and messy, and that there's typos, there's no spelling. States are wrong, ages are wrong, genders are wrong. So you really, in order to compare them, you really have to go person by person, go down the list, find the death and in order patrol database, look at the Medical Examiner data on time to matches person by person. So because we have so much of
the incident narratives from the medical examiners. We can actually tell when Border patrol was involved, and so we mark when border patrols involved when they're not involved, and then when that case doesn't actually get counted by Border patrol, okay, and it doesn't actually really line up.
There's not a huge correlation there.
I mean, there is some correlation, like older skeletal remains things like that often won't get counted, but generally there are a lot of cases where they directly involved, where even they were the first responders on the scene to a distress call or any number of things, where that person will end up in Vorda Patrol's database. And then other cases where it seems like they had no involvement,
that person ends up being in Vortical Patrol's database. So, I mean, they've been in trouble with the GAO multiple times for undercounting or improperly counting or recording these debts, and so they have access to medical examiner data. Medical examiners send them the data, they just don't use it.
We often also noticed that the causes that get really don't match up in a lot of really specific cases like yeah, for Walfalls, for instance, was the most notable one see a huge amount of cases that medical examiner will say one force trauma, and then border Patrols data will say medical examiner and detainment or exposure or any number of other things which like for the most part,
causes the death seem to line up. So the fact that these Waalfall deaths it happens to not line up is like, you know, I don't want to assume they have that intent, although obviously Bordemtrol is bad intent, but it seems like it happens regularly enough that it's hard to feel like it's not at is somewhat intentional that the cases that they're kind of choosing to change the couses of death.
For right, so let's get obfuscates the lethality of the border war, right length, it's the amount of people who it kills.
Yeah, I mean to a huge degree too.
I mean the fact that Bordertrol's data is kind of our only source of data for micrant deaths and then specifically for deaths caused by border patrol or like Walfall deaths, means that the amount of death that we need the public has access to, like Walhall deaths for instance, is just a drop in the bucket compared to what's actually happening. So all of the research and reporting and all the stuff that happens around these CNC related deaths is drawing off just like truly false numbers.
Yeah, yeah, and that leads to people drawing bad conclusions.
Right.
The other thing that you found is that like that, there seems to be an underreporting of in custody deaths, right, or an undercounting of people who die in custody. So can you explain how you were able to ascertain that difference between the in custody death recorded by the Office of Professional Responsibility. That's just the ones that you found, right.
Right, So the opposite Professional Responsibility is all part of CBP, and they're supposed to be recording all the saw CBP related deaths, including according to the Deaths and Custody Reporting Act to like twenty thirteen or whatever it was, army destin plustody. There's a really specific definition of what in custody means, and so we tried to follow pretty strictly what that definition was to kind of make our own assessments using the incident narratives.
Yeah, I'm curious, what does it mean, like I'm thinking about door detention, right, Like, does that count as in custody?
Yeah? So any only time if a person is in the process of being apprehended, if the person has been apprehended, if a person has been detained, if the person is physically in custody, bordertrol, in a bordertrol vehicle, in a
cup facility, all those things, who would count as in custody. Okay, it's just important because at least one of the cases, the border patrol agent involved said the person wasn't in custody, he was just detained, which for the purposes of reporting, there's actually no difference, right, Yeah, but he said that clearly to not have it be labeled as in custody death right, and what it seems like that ended up
not being very able to deserve custody death. So it's definitely I think they're they're aware the fact that these are being equalted and kind of frown not to have.
That due to case they have too many of them, like uppere Another interesting data interesting is your own word, but another data point here was the amount of death caused by pursuit, right or in pursuit I guess maybe you should just explain, like what pursuit is to people if they're not aware.
Yeah, so there's two kinds of pursuit. We listen at the same gear on their database. You can see the difference. There's chases on motor vehicle and there's chases on foot. So, for example, a person's getting chase through the desert and collapses and dies be considered a death either pursuit or EF.
A person is like in al Paso or San Diego or Imperial County more is chased, ends up going in a canal or jumping into a canal to escape and drowns the idea or chase on foot, and then motor vehicle pursuits are Yeah, the person is being chased by Border patrol and the glowing passions and people are chilled.
Yeah.
Use of force cases also include some of these chases through OPR standards and CVP standards. If spike strips are deployed, or if a vehicle is ran by a Border Patrol vehicle, that's considered use of force. So that's where a person died due to that, we would call that a use of force staff. Yeah, so I guess those are the two to three different times perceived. That's a great doo.
And so like, yeah, those are as you say, they're broken down the database, right, but in the spreadsheet they are combined.
What does this data show.
Us about, Like, I guess if we look at the last half decade or so, let's go back to like twenty sixteen, right, border policy, Like, what does it show us about like title eight, Title forty two. We're like a little too too close to the Biden assylum band to have I guess, like good data on that yet. But do you see a clear pattern in like the border rhetoric and border quote unquote enforcement and the amount of death or the type of death?
Oh, definitely, Yeah, It's it's immediately clear. I mean even Biden's asylum ban, I think there is an immediate effect. I mean even just with as a normal desk volunteer, we started seeing people crossing the border, crossing the desert that just never would have yet made the attempt previously, you know, and then started to see as people reported the death data too.
So I think all of that is pretty clear.
So with Trump's restrictions on asylum, I think the biggest thing, honestly was all the metering policies rather than just Tiital forty two or like protection protocols or any of that. It was just the facts that people weren't allowed to access the border country. Yeah, I ended up kind of like going around to enter like other places in the desert border sort of picked them up.
That all this started happening.
Yeah, and so it's kind of like a trickle in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, a little bit more in twenty twenty one, and then twenty twenty two you suddenly seen just huge amounts of people from countries other than Mexico and Central America starting to show up in the data. And then also like people who clearly were trying to seep asylum showing up in this gap data all the way up until it slowed down after you know, the end of twenty twenty three, and then but definitely continue
through through full time of four. Yeah.
Definitely, Like I speaking from my own experience on the border here, we saw the same thing, right, like people crossing you wouldn't have seen making that crossing in places and times that they wouldn't have crossed, you know, before the Biden asylum ban, and like that definitely resulted in I mean, there was a weekend September where I think five people died. September twenty twenty four, we had a heat wave and like it immediately resulted in multiple fatalities
that like wouldn't have been the case previously. I wonder, like what does this data set in terms of like recommendations, right in terms of like how we can use this data set? Obviously, we're at a time when I when I guess the Trump administration like had its complete asylum band stayed, but we're back at like people can't in good faith like turn up to a port of entry anymore and just be like, Hey, I'd like to claim
asylum and really really hope for the best. Like what does this data set tell us in terms of like what policies kill more people? And like I guess, like like what recommendations arise from the data in terms obviously, I guess bit of the recommendation is to have laws that allow people to fucking enter this country and claim
asylum without walking across the desert. But that seems like it's too much to ask, So like what do we learn in terms of like specific policies that are particularly fatal and like the way is that that could be mitigated and if it's not already by like water drops and search.
Yeah, that's a hard question, just because talking to the older people and the more deaths who've been around since like kind of the early years of prevention to the terrence, Yeah, they talked about sort of feeling like you know, when they were first out there, being like, man, this is really unsustainable. It came out here all the time like this maybe like a few more years we could probably handle and then hopefully this prevention through de terrence thing
will have like kind of stopped. They'll see like this is unsustainable, and then here we are all these years later and it's worse than it's at again. Yeah, and the original prevention to de terance policy is like this strategy of essentially killing people in the hopes, I know, people will stop trying to cross the border or something, and kind of just is the original thing that it's really hard to get away from.
And yeah, the fact that right now applying the same.
Strategy of death and suffering to asylum seekers is really horrifying.
So I think yeah, Number one, open up ports.
Eventually to allow asylum secret to seek asylum, bring back like even the sort of minimum asylum projections that we had back then. Other things like how people are dying really matters.
Yeah.
So for example, in the Olpasto sector, there was very very few deaths in twenty fourteen. The last couple of years, it's been the deadliest single small area in the entire border. And a lot of that was just because the border has just become so militarized that even this like urban area where you know, people are dying a mile from town, people are dying in town. We I was part of the recovery where we this person was on a road,
had been there for about three days dead. It was about forty feet from the busiest the busiest road in the entire town. Yeah, and that's just not something that really fits in with the ordinary narrative like Prevenual to de Terrance, people getting pushed out to these more remote areas, and I think just a level of militarization is just up to the level that it really is just deadly
kind of. I mean even yea, all these deaths in San Diego, as you know, also do so like all these Walfall deaths are pretty much all since like twenty seventeen, we're even more recently so the construction of all this new border wall. You can point very directly to a huge amount.
Of deaths just caused by walfalls.
There's the canals in Imperial County and al Paso that there a huge amount of people. There's Alpasa right now is in the process of revamping their whole canal system.
Would be a great.
Opportunity to add some sort of like safety systems in place so that people don't die. Yeah, it is all the pursue deaths which now are not just being caused the border patrol, but also like the Texas Department of Public Public Safety now that Operation Lone Star has helped up. There's all these things where the kinds of deaths and the kinds of people dying and all that stuff has changed and increased really drastically in the last few years.
And you can kind of point to a lot of them.
But also it's like, yeah, I don't know, it's hard to really have any smart thoughts on it. Besides, just like boor control is underformable and.
Just needs to be disbanded entire Yeah, and like this whole border regime, right, the whole idea of like an iron border that we enforce in a physical space. The point of it is to kill people, Like, the point of it is to hurt people by having perfectly innocent people who you'd be happy to have with your neighbor die in the desert. Like that's that is, that is
the policy goal. Like I'm just looking, like I'm looking at Pinto Canyon, which San Diego people will know it is, Like it's pretty like, don't if you're listening to this, don't go to Pinto Canyon. You might die. It's not a place to just go looking around if you're not experienced traveling out in the desert. But like, even Pinto Canyon is Gnali. But looking along the wall, the wall kills way more people than this rugged and difficult piece
of terrain in the middle of now. Well, it's it's things that we have paid a lot of money for that kill the most people. And that's pretty brutal to confront. One of the other things that you guys were able to determine was that like a number of United States residents had died right in this data set.
Yeah, can you explain that for people?
Totally?
So?
Yeah, Like you said, there's people you'd love to have as your neighbor dying in all these places, and not just that, but your actual neighbor. The amount of people whose main residence listed was just in San Diego County, in Oceanside, in Bakersfield and Indianapolis, places.
That we've all been to.
Yeah, we were able to record for San Diego County and a few other counties a lot of where people actually lived in some of the circumstances for why they were crossing through the desert in the first place. A lot of it is people who are very recently deported, or who just traveled to Mexico because they had to get some paperwork done or wanted to visit family or things like this. Just had entire lives in the United States and then and then passed away on the way
back ends of the country. Yeah, including I mean, it's really heartbreaking to even see. There's there's a lot of cases where the person who actually finds the body or recovers the body is not person's family members or their spouse or their children, even which only happens because you know, Board of Control is generally not that interested in recovering
bodies or in looking for people who are lost. So often Yeah, often it will be yes, somebody's somebody's spouse who comes when when it is actually the first person on listening.
Yeah, it's it's very common right for volunteers to be alerted VIO. You know, I know some of the certain rescue groups are alerted by like Instagram for instance, that like someone is missing. Right, It's not like there is like despite this being massively overfunded, you can't just call and they won't just send out an ambulance like a lot of a lot of times it is either the family members or like a bunch of volunteers just driving
out there in the trucks the last night. Like I can remember in running into some migrants in like twenty twenty three and then being like, hey, there are some other people down there and I was like where, how
do you know? And they found them on a snapchat mat wow, and like that that was you know, the only thing that maybe said those people's lives And yeah, it's pretty brutal to think that like there's still really there's no one where there are people you can call, I'm help you, But it's not the people who are getting billions of dollars. Let's talk very briefly before we
finish up about desks outside of the United States. I see you have some data, Like obviously my familiarity is with the Daddy and GAP, which I could like getting. I don't think that data exists, but like, I see you have a number of data points within Mexico. Can you explain like how you came across service and to what extent that data is if a toll like representative or complete.
Yeah, so it's not at all representative or complete. It all comes from the National Institute of Immigration, the.
I and M in Mexico.
Yeah.
Two.
Yes, the warder working people's data are they're like sort of like quotun cloth entertain and it were migrants instituted by the government of Mexico, New Mexico. And so we through the Mexicano Google Eployer, you're able to get data from the group of VETA, which throughout the years there's been kind of like changing locations of offices.
So the data we have is just from where their offices are.
So it's usually just sort of like a number of deaths for that particular office for that particular year.
Yes, it's very very limited, and.
There's many many, many deaths that we then have other data to show that doesn't exist here.
So it's really just planet life.
Yeah, it shouldn't be taken as any kind of like representative sample or it's goodly just the one piece of Mexican data that we were able to.
Quickly put on the map.
Yeah.
We shod get other data.
From my specific states in Mexico, but we through because of time and capacity and just the data itself, we were unable to turn back into that.
Yeah, we wouldn't do something with that.
Yeah, and I think it still remains true that like the single deadliest mine of this journey is the United States border, at least from this data that you're seeing. Did would you say this data still supports that probably?
I don't know.
Yeah, Yeah, I just don't want to say, because the data is just so bad in so many places, especially in Mexico abought.
Yeah, I'm thinking of like the Daddy in right, Like it's it's very deadly. I've seen people die there, Like it's obviously a very very difficult and rugged place. But I think comparatively, probably more people die at the US border, just because there were more of them and because people come like people are Yeah, not everyone has to cross a dairy end. Like people can fly to Mexico or somewhere further south, right and then come up that way.
Where if people want to find this data, or perhaps there's someone who's like a ninja with with data and data visualization and they want to offer to help, like where can people find this and how can they reach out to no more desks if they'd like to help in some way.
Yeah, So just on the normal desk website you can see the report and the map and all that stuff. And in there there's a link to the media outreach email, which in the next couple of months is my email, and just Felker to send send an email there and yeah, happy to give greater accents. And right now the data is pretty anonymized for privacy and safety. Yeah, and there's a lot of the fields that we've kind of talked
about that don't look here in the public database. So happy to share that with researchers, activists, advocacy people, journal.
US and things like that.
And also we desperately would out to help, so interested in looking at some spreadsheets?
Yeah, yeah, cool, great, Thank you so much your time and for all the work on this I know this was a lot of work getting those records, and I think it I know it gives us something to point to to show how many people this this ball of shit is killing totally.
This is it could happen here, a show about things falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis this episode. I'm joined by Mia Wong.
Mia.
I have some upsetting news.
Oh no, which is frankly one of the best ways to start in this episode and one of the best ways to start the show. So I'm pretty sure that I found this account called, uh, let's see at Haill Hitler, and I think he's posting some things that is a little bit fascist.
Oh wow.
I have decoded some of at Hell Hitler's communications and I have uncovered a secret a secret Nazi code.
Wow.
This is this is an incredibly unexpected revelation from Hailed Hitler.
He has posted some pictures in like what I would assume is some kind of military uniform that looks like I don't know, it's it's some kind of like like Germanic military uniform. But I've noticed that there's some runes on this uniform, oh, that look very similar to the Odal rune. So I'm thinking because of the run, this guy might.
Be a Nazi.
Thank you for your work, Erison. We can never have determined this, that's right, I am. You can find me at osen to Defender online and no that doesn't for us today, and it could happen here now. So this emisode, we're gonna talk about something that's been slowly frustrating me the past few weeks, and that is the misapplication of dog whistles.
And let's just get right into it. People have been noticing patterns, noticing trends in official communications from the dhs gov online accounts, which now is the main way the government sends out communications unfortunately, especially on X the Everything app. But this, this extends outside of X the Everything after, this extends outside of Blue Sky the Internet in general.
This is about how we understand the messaging of fascists and understand how rhetoric and anti fascist like education works and ways that I think it's currently being misapplied.
So bear with me.
This is gonna be kind of an odd episode, but I think I think it's worth it because I don't want us falling into the same traps that we maybe fell into eight years ago. So let's Let's let's start by talking about some communications posted on the internet by at DHS gov. A picture of a painting titled American Progress by John Gast, captioned a heritage to be proud of,
comma a homeland worth defending. So on the surface, you know, maybe a slightly hashtag problematic sentiment here with a hashtag problematic painting or at the very least of painting depicting the genocide of Native Americans and Indigenous people specifically with like a white supremacist outlook, with this enlarged white woman bathed in a white cloak, bringing forth that the tide of quote unquote progress as Indigenous people are are forced to flee from the edge of the painting.
It's it's fun because this is a painting we literally when they had to explain manifest destiny like colonialism good. This is the painting that was in my textbook in high school. Is three class like and it is like the er, the er colonialism good, genocide good painting.
Genocide good. That that's what the painting is. But what I have found through some hashtag research, there might be a hidden code in this in this communication from the DHS who already an agency that only has the best interests and of really all people who strive for human rights, the DHS. So if you count all of the words in the tweet, guess how many words there are in
this tweet? Mea fifteen no, so close, so close, fourteen fourteen words in this tweet, which might remind you of the fourteen words the Nazi signifier, which I probably just explain. Surely most people listening to this is familiar with the fourteen words, since it seems everybody thinks they are an armchair expert on fascist rhetoric. But the fourteen words we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children. This became a popular hashtag dog whistle,
especially in the past. I would say ten fifteen years, usually by implanting fourteen's and usually fourteen eighty eights with eighty eight meaning Hale Hitler because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. This became a common Nazi tag. You could see this in graffiti, You see this embedded into into posts, see this in like Nazi artwork. And going back to this DHS post, we cannot only count
fourteen words in this tweet. This is actually a fourteen eighty eight because two of the h's in this in this post are capitalized unusually, and that means hal Hitler Wow because hc eighth letter.
Uh huh oh.
But wait, actually looking at this post again, there's actually other words in this tweet that are also unusually capitalized.
But don't worry.
Don't worry.
This is still a dog whistle because those other words that are capitalized in the first sentence are the letters A and D, which if you convert those into numbers, are one in four, so it's actually another fourteen.
Oh wow, we're doing we're doing numerology. We're doing jamatria, where we've become q and on. We're so back.
So if you cannot tell by my, my, my thinly veiled sarcasm in that last section, I think this methodology is a little bit silly.
What are we doing?
What are we doing here?
We're converting capitalized letters in the first half of a tweet into numbers and then rearranging the order of those letters to get a fourteen eighty eight it's literally jerbatria, and then also counting the total words in the whole suite while still disregarding the capitalizations in the last four words for another fourteen What are we doing? How is this the piece of evidence that sinks sinks the Trump
administration and finally proves that they're fascist. You can just look at all of the fascist policies the Trump administration is enacting. Instead of doing numerology on tweets, people are thinking, ha ha ha ha, I have decoded the secret Nazi message with AHHD one eight eight fourteen. Nice trigroipers. Meanwhile, you can just look at the actual text of the post. You can look at the painting. Both of those things have an inherent fascist quality. It's literally defending the concept
of ethnic genocide, of manifest destiny. While the administration, the DHS is currently furthering as no nationalist policies.
They are doing this. This is homeland security, right. I don't know if people realize that ICE is a part of homeland security, but like, this is the agency that is literally rounding people up and sending them to camps. We have camps in multiple countries. Now what I say, they're being round up and sent to camps. It's genuinely unclear whether what I'm talking about is the fucking concentration camp.
In Florida see cot In nol Salvador.
Yeah, I mean I think I think people have now escaped, so I can't technically call the Honduras want a death camp. But like again there's sending people to South u Dan, They're like, they're just doing this, Like what are we doing here?
So this episode I want to focus on how people are misusing anti fascist edge, or I would argue they're misusing anti fascist education and kind of missing the forest for a cardboard cutout of trees, not even trees, kind of something that could be a tree if you look at it from one angle, but maybe isn't actually a real tree. And you don't need to sound like a Da Vinci Code conspiracy theorist to point out the obvious, like dog whistles don't matter if the regular whistle is
already fascist. If they're just saying things openly and furthermore doing things, what purpose does a dog whistle haen? And this is something that we're going to discuss. Are not just saying this and closing the episode, We're going to get into these And I think part of what's happening here everybody is so cooked by the paranoid style of American politics. Everyone is so eager to decode the hidden messages that we're missing what's right in front of us.
QAnon has a total victory. Qwanon does not really exist in the way that it did in twenty eighteen. That the q Andon cult conspiracy theory as like a singular cultish project is kind of no more. But q Andon has a cultural victory over the entire United States, and not just on the right wing, not just on Mega.
So much of.
American politics now is litigating who is and is not a pedophile, who is and is not trafficking children, who can notice which events are staged, who can notice hidden codes, who can decode anonymous messages on the Internet, And this is what like everything is. And like the real turning point I think for the right wing was probably the twenty twenty election in like a massive fracture from reality
in which they think that election was legitimately stolen. And obviously there was many events leading up to that which contributed to this. Yeah, and I think one of the biggest fracture points for liberal was the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, with people creating whole new alternate realities that that event was staged and because that door is opened.
Now I am seeing such a massive flood of things that I would label as bluing on conspiracy theories, which is kind of a nonsense term, but it gets the point across. And gonna do a whole piece on bluing
on very soon. I've been collecting blueing on conspiracy theories for a while, but I want to do something specifically about this fourteen eighty eight and like secret codes thing, because it's so evocative of like, you know, Q drops, and it's evocative of, you know, searching for Masonic codes, something that American conspiracy theorists have been doing for generations.
And we're to talk about that more and read a little bit of an essay on that topic after this ad break, and I will let you know there's gonna be two messages in the ad break that if you decode, you win a special prize at the end of the episode, So make sure you listen to every single second of the ad in case you miss the code. Okay, we are back, speaking of the paranoid style in American politics. I want to quote a few sections to kind of
frame what I'm talking about here. This was an essay written in the sixties by Richard hoff Setter Hofstetter Richard Hoffstetter one of the first like modern pieces on American conspiracy culture and politics. I'm gonna I have three paragraphs here that I that I selected as as being relevant to the current the current topic at hand.
Quote.
There is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratory fantasy that I have in mind. Nothing really prevents a sound program or demand from being advocated in the paranoid style. Style has more to do with the way in which ideas are believed than with the truth or falsity of their content.
Unquote.
And I like that section specifically because fourteen eighty eight is a real dog whistle. We can see this used. There's aspects of people who are trying to search for this and trying to search for patterns in the communications of an admittedly fascistic government agency that I find like sympathetic, like I can under I can understand because yeah, that is a real dog whistle. I'm going to continue the quote quote the paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy
in apocalyptic terms. He traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point, like religious millinery. Now he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days, and he is sometimes disposed to set a date for the apocalypse. As a member of the avant garde who is capable of perceiving the conspiracy before it
is fully obvious to it. As of yet to unaroused public, the paranoid is a militant leader. Demand for total triumph leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens the paranoid's sense of frustration. Unquote, Hofstetter is talking about something that that me and Robert specifically have have have
discussed a lot on this show before. How everyone in America wants to have access to secret information m h. Everyone wants to have the exclusive piece of secret intel that will solve everything, and like having having that like informational exclusivity in a world of information saturation, right of a vortex of like meaningless noise. It's such a romantic idea that that I alone have the info or the clue to pieces together, and it's my duty to inform
the masses. It's a very romantic notion, and it's also one that is exactly perfectly anti suited for the moment we live in, which is actually just a moment where everything that is happening is just so clearingly literal, like it's all out of the Oden, like what is happening
with the Trump administration. Okay, In twenty twenty, there is a massive uprising to attempt to attempt to fundamentally change like the structurally racist nature of the United States, to deal with its fucking class inequalities, to deal with the
structural violence of the state. This was reacted to by a massive fascist movement that spent half a decade gaining power and then finally took power in the form of like a bunch of pissed off petite bourgeois fucking car dealers and like literally a billionaire real estate mogul backed by the richest tech company guy in the world right,
and they came together to build fascism. This is the most straightforward, like if this is a conception of how a fascist takeover works that is so thuddingly literal that it defies narrativization because it's just there. There's no subtlety to it. They're just saying it. They just want to do it, and they're doing it. But everyone is convinced that there's like some kind of secret hitting conspiracy and
it's like, no, they're just doing the thing that they're saying. Yeah, you can argue that we have a griper occupied government not because of counting words and posts, but because of not only who they're bringing on for DOGE, but literally Ice in DHS as of today, which I'm recording this on Wednesday, I think, because this comes out Wednesday night, are copying like Patriot Front style tactics of loading up ICE agents in U haul style rentable trucks to do
hunt down people to assault and kidnap, like they're just copying the Patriot Front playbook. Here the ICE director said that he wants an Amazon like mass deportation system, calling it quote unquote Amazon Prime, but with human beings. They're saying this, you can say, listen to the actual words. I'm going to read another quote here from the Paranoid Style of American Politics essay quote. A final characteristic of the paranoid style is related to the quality of its pedantry.
One of the impressive things about paranoid literature is the contrast between its fantasized conclusions and the almost touching concern with factuality it invariably shows. It produces heroic strivings for evidence to prove that the unbelievable is the only thing that can be believed respectable. Paranoid literature not only starts from certain mortal commitments that can indeed be justified, but
also carefully and all but obsessively accumulates unquote evidence. The paranoid seems to have little expectation for actually convincing a hostile world, but he can accumulate evidence in order to protect his cherished convictions from it unquote. And I think that gets into the psychological mechanisms on why people are doing this Nazi code hunting. It's actually a form of
self coping. Looking at the horrific state of the federal government, looking at the brazenness in which ICE is operating, and this is a self preservation mechanism. Someone on Blue Sky that I was talking to about this is like arguing, like ICE doesn't need to dog whistle, they have no reason to.
Like.
Dog whistling is for trying to like sneakily get racists or fascists into power while signaling to a nationalistic base that they are like one of them. Right, But these guys are already in power, and the base already knows that they're in power. There's no point in dog whistling. They're just using ICE to establish an ethno state. They're
using explicit ethno state rhetoric. In a post from this morning which has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine ten words not fourteen ten words, Wow, DHS said quote, serve your country, Defend your culture, no undergraduate degree required. Defend your culture. It's not about locking up criminal migrants. It's about defending a culture from its destruction through ethnic demographic shifts. It's they're not trying to obscure
what they're doing. In the slightest No, And I want to return to something else that the Hofstater said that in that second paragraph that you read about how like one of the central conceits is that, like, you know, there's this giant conspiracy that's being unleashed and the American public doesn't know anything about it, and like, yeah, you can. You know, it is distressing to a large extent, the extent to which people just don't know what the government
is doing. But also like if you look at any pulling at all, but anything these people are doing, everyone hates it. There isn't like a secret thing you can say to convince people that they're that all these people are Nazis, because it's like and that's not even a particularly useful project because everyone fucking hates them already, Like trying to fight this in the realm of sort of the accumulation of the evidence of conspiracy instead of in the realm of like, hi, i'm your neighbor, you also.
Fucking hate this. Let's go fucking like do they shoul people are doing in la and like follow these fucking ice fans around, right, That is stuff that people are doing, but it doesn't have the kind of like instant emotional gratification and register of trying to like accumulate hordes of secret knowledge, so people do it less even though it's less effective.
In my discussion of this, like online on various cursed social media sites, I've gotten a lot of pushback to my pushback of these tactics and what I what I see as a sort of like abuse of anti fascist education, right because people, you know, Robert Evans, myself, you know, Molly Conger, spent the past eight years trying to actually, you know, educate people about like Nazi rhetoric, like in like Nazi signals and dog whistles, right, and as an
attempt to hopefully prevent them from expanding their power. And we may have succeeded in education, but we may have failed in the prevention.
Of them seizing power.
And that also makes me kind of question the effectiveness of certain tactics. And it's now very odd to see things that we you know, argued for visibility around to kind of be used in ways that don't really make sense. That it's it's it's kind of like trying to tame a monster that you've partially created. And it's so frustrating to me because I mean, one person who I was lightly arguing about the line was saying, like, this is not numerology, and we don't have to be just okay
with a clear attempt to normalize white nationalist rhetoric. And like, first of all, like codes aren't rhetoric, codes or codes, And the textual fascist sentence.
Is the rhetoric.
What they're actually like saying, which which has like proto fascist or fascistic aspects, That is the rhetoric and they're doing it. Is there somebody out there in twenty twenty five who's gonna finally realize that DHS as an agency has fascistic underpinnings via a chronically online Twitter user explaining that if you count words and turn certain captize letters into numbers, it makes a secret Nazi message. Is there one person is going to become convinced to us, No,
that's not the purpose. So trying to conceptionize this is like we have to we have to make sure we call out the use of Nazi rhetoric that doesn't apply to this specific thing that we're talking about.
Yeah, and also like I think, you know, like I think we sort of kind of just to some extent, we've just failed on the normalization from it because again, like it's the president of the United States. Yeah, this is the official account of the Department of Homeland Security. It has already become normalized because they have power. The only way to denormalize it is not actually to do media critique. It's to like actually oppose them. But that's scary, that's scary.
Repet Marybia, do you know what's easy posting on X the everything app Yeah.
This is how this kind of conspiratorial worldview actually empowers the state, because the central conceit of the conspiratorial worldview is that there is a nearly all powerful agency that controls in apparatus that enables it to basically control any events that it wants. Right, this is why I can stage things, this is why I can recollection. This is why it can like I don't know, like it can just like magically like disappear anyone. It can replace them
with anyone. It can stage any protest movement it wants to right. And I think you've seen this a lot in the American case, where like I see people who are like genuinely well meaning leftists who are convinced that if you do anything to resist the American State, you will immediately be killed because the American state is all powerful and irresistible. And that's just fast just propaganda. Yeah,
you're falling victim to the panoptic house. Yeah, but but it's it's fascist propaganda that fits into the narrative structure of conspiracy. And because the state is dangerous, right and can hurt you, it's very very easy to you know, accumulate structures of evidence that support the emotional sort of core of this thing that is just literally fascist propaganda.
People are resisting the state every day, right, Why is ICE fucking doing patriot prayer tactics and fucking like hiding people in like fucking U hauls to jump out and grab people. It's because when they tried to fucking mass we stomped them, right. And when they drive around in their cars and you can see them through the window, everyone follows them. People can follow them around and alert
their community members on where ICE is. Like again, mother motherfuckers and fucking Lulu Levin shit are like screaming at ICE agents when they try to arrest people, like yeah, that's the actual condition we're in, and like we get regular people.
And that's why I find some people who would be you know, self described as like anti fascists or selfist described as leftists almost falling into this trap like more so than others. And it's a little bit evident of something that like I've described as like the forever twenty sixteen, how we're all kind of stuck in the mindset of this twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen era and where we have this unwillingness to realize that that's not the
political situation on the ground anymore. We are actually not in Charlottesville. This is a different situation. This is twenty twenty five. And one other like defense of this, you know, code hunting that I've seen people say is, quote, Nazis love playing games like this, so it's important that we call it out. And another person saying, quote, this is a fun little game for their group chats while they kill and disappear people, unquote, and like, first of all,
this is not a game. This is actual people's lives are who are being deported, who are being sent to
foreign prison camps. These are not games. And and I think that view of like anti fascist like education risks repeating like the Okay symbol debacle right where dog whistles end up being created or spread further due to this gamified version of like Easter egg anti fascism, It's kind of like the Barber streisand effect where you end up almost accidentally making them start doing the thing, which Nazis always have that like frustrating impulse because they're the little
bitch boy ideology. I think as a rat, Limit put it one of one of my favorite posters, and like, I'm not saying that Nazi signposting should be ignored, but I think we should be thoughtful and careful of how we do it. To recap the Okay symbol thing that was invented as like a fake dog whistle to try to trick leftists into convincing like the media, and had then having the media trying to convinceate with people that anyone who uses like the okayhand symbol is secretly a fascist.
And this scheme worked, and eventually the Oka symbol became an actual symbol used for fascists to identify each other through this ironic attachment because it was being talked about in the news as a secret Nazi symbol, even though this whole thing was like invented as like a joke online.
And I'm afraid I've started to already see a similar thing happen with the fourteen words dog whistle, with an increased use of the fourteen words and invoking the fourteen words among far right accounts, specifically because of this whole debacle with the DHS gov account and there a heritage to be proud of, homeland worth defending American Progress like ethnonationalist posting. And I truly cannot say one way or another if that American Progress post had a intentionally embedded
fourteen words dog whistle inside, I can't. I can't tell you that. And the point trying to make is that it kind of doesn't matter, but the way we talk about dog whistles does matter. And as frustrating as it is that sometimes this feels like we're just living in the meme where where the Nazi starts shaving his head because everyone's calling him a Nazi, that is how Nazis work sometimes. And I don't want to play into this
attention spectacle that they so badly want. But you know what I do want right now?
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Briefly take a small tangent here. I think there was something very important about like the fact that role stuck in twenty sixteen, which was sort of like the peak of irony right as a social affect has left us really unprepared for now where everything is just sort of like, you know, they're just doing it and saying it right, yeah, And it's not this sort of like irony pill deniability. Shit. They just do it and people are just not prepared for that.
They're able to wage this war kind of on both fronts, and I think they are still pushing this. I'm going to quote from a friend of the pod rat Limit one of my favorite mutes quote prediction, the Nazi salute will become common within two years. Right wingers will half asset for plausible deniability, mimify the backlash, and then start fully doing it quote unquote as a joke to quote unquote troll the Libs for being hysterical enough to think
that they were doing it in the first place. Fascism is a little bitch ideology because it's too timid to enact as cruelty until it can frame its cruelty as retaliation against others for anticipating it, and this has been proven right faster than I think what rat limit predicted. There's this current trend on x the Everything app where white girl aspiring influencers are doing Nazi style salutes and trying to mimify the backlash. Several posts going going viral
of these. Of these like aspiring influencers either at the pool or cooking or doing laundry or walking your dog while having a your arm in a Elon Musk, my heart goes out to you Nazi salute style fashion. Yeah, and I think focusing media attention on someone like Musk doing a Nazi salute makes sense, right, he is like an actual person affiliated with the government. But making a whole media blitz about random blue check Twitter girls, maybe
not so much. Maybe that doesn't have any actual value if a random like a random Twitter poster from Missouri is trying to garner backlash by doing a Hyle Hitler salute in their kitchen next to their instapot.
I keep coming back to the thing that I wrote about the original Loss salute and about the ways that everyone you know, like one of the functions of capitalism is that everyone has been trained to experience the world and think in the image of action instead of like actually existing things. That's what I want to talk about next. Yeah, yeah, let's do this, Let's do this.
Yeah, go for go for it.
No.
I think part of this focus on on on like these hidden codes and even just like these messages online is a liberal opposition to the aesthetics of deportation, but not necessarily the act itself. It's carrying out deportations in a mode that seems not in line with like neoliberal governing.
And that's I think what a bunch of the backlash being focused on the aesthetics of the Trump administration, like how they film like gaudy ASMR videos that they post from the White House account of deportations and use military planes. Those are aesthetic differences, and those differences may be important, and they're they're bad, right, It's I'm not saying these things are good. Those things are still bad.
Yeah.
But when that gets focused on slightly more than just the pure acti deportation itself, that I think is evident of being trapped in this like capitalist realism, being trapped in this like like this neoliberal Yeah, the society of the spectacle exactly, right, let's like in June, Ice arrested thirty thousand people and did eighteen thousand deportations. In May it was twenty four thousand arrests in eighteen thousand deportations.
Since February, the Trump admin has averaged about fourteen thousand and seven hundred deportations of month. The highest number of deportations ever was in twenty thirteen under Obama, averaging thirty six thousand a month. The Biden admin averaged almost thirteen thousand. When the Trump administration started using military planes for deportations back in January, mainly as an esthetic choice, that triggered
backlash and rejections from Mexico and Colombia. Mexico refused to allow US military aircraft carrying deported migrants to land in their country. Colombia also barred two military planes full of migrants, but later caved as Trump threatened unitive tariffs. And you can see the same thing about deploying military to the border, something that Biden also did, but it has a larger aesthetic backlash under Trump. Do you have something you want
to say on this like image aspect? I have some quotes from Fisher and that's kind of all I have left.
Yeah, I mean it is very fitting of our styles of politics that you're going to Fisher here and I'm going to Benjamin.
Benjamin is quoted in these sections that Fisher is pulling from as well.
Yep, yep. So I'll go into the source. I'm not going through the fucking cru bullshit like pop marks, this bourmois running doc. But no, but like, you know, like one of the things that that Walter Benjamin, who people genuinely really should read. He's one of the great original theorists of fascism, and he fucking died trying to flee
the Nazis. And one of his arguments was that, you know, one of the cores of fascism is the replacement of politics with aesthetics, Right, that aesthetics would allow you to you know, feels like feel representations of do the action. And this is this is an analysis that has been sort of like folded through a whole bunch of different
analyzes of how capitalism functions. Right, this is this is one of the three lines of the society a spectacle, and it's this real issue that we're dealing with now because again kind of in a sense, what has happened to everything right, And you can argue to some extent that like our channel being called cool zone Media is sort of this is that all politics from every side
has been completely reduced to aesthetics. And completely reducing it to aesthetics allows like allows the fascist mode of politics to simply draw in a bunch of people who can sort of just now passively experience living through these sort of through this sort of collection of images and this emotional aesthetic. Yeah, and it also is doing the same
thing to us. But the thing is they have the fucking state and we don't, right, And so if you don't fucking exit, if you don't exit the sort of mirror world of esthetic of sort of like of fucking living in images, right, and you know, go do the actual shit that the board is talking about in the
society a spectacle. Were you when all your friends formed workers councils and fucking start taking all of the ship back from all of the people who were taking it from you, You're just gonna live in the fascist nightmare forever.
I mean, you could look at the union resistance to icedy iportations, specifically in LA with russaurant workers that it's literally doing that and like I would argue, like now, it's not so much that fascism is politics as athetics, but especially now, it is an aestheticized politics. And you can even see that in so far as its focuses on you know, like race and like ethnic purity, like
blood and soil. That's why they're posting American progress driving out the indigenous people with the aryan white lady carrying the torch of progress. It is an aestheticized politics on like a very pure level. And again, to quote from my goat, uh this antigoat quote Mark Fisher in captust Realism quote, ultra authoritarianism and capital are by no means incompatible.
In tournament Camp's enfranchise coffee bars co exist, neoliberals, the capitalist realists par excellence have celebrated the destruction of public space, but contrary to their official hopes, there is no withering away of the state, only a stripping back of the state to its core military and police functions. Unquote. This is very similar to something that me and Mia talked about right as Trump got elected, in terms of the state becoming more removed but hostile.
Yeah, although although I see again I disagree official here because the neo liberals understood what they were doing to begin with. They were never trying to wither the state away. That was just the lies that they told the fucking basses Like sure, I mean that's what contrary to their official Yeah, yeah, and it's like you know, quote, such.
A blight can only be eased by an intervention that can be no more anticipated than was the onset of the curse in the first place. Action is pointless, only senseless. Hope makes sense. Superstition and religion the first resorts the helpless proliferate unquote. This is part of what I conceptualize as this code hunting is almost a form of this hopeless superstition. To continue quote, the catastrophe is neither waiting down the road, nor has it already happened. Rather, it
is being lived through. There is no punctual moment of disaster. The world doesn't end with a bang. It winks out, unravels, gradually falls apart. What caused the catastrophe to occur? Who knows its cause? Lies long in the past, so absolutely detached from the present as to seem like the caprice of a maligned being, a negative miracle, a melidation which no penance can ameliorate the turn from belief to aesthetics, from engagement to spectatorship is held to be one of
the virtues of capitalist realism unquote. And yeah, that's what me is talking about with Gidebor and society of the spectacle. That's a trap that I think a lot of people are falling into right now. And though it's arguable that living in a liberal contradiction may be preferable to fascist authoritarianism, that stullsn't mean it's like good, right, That's not what we're arguing here. Fisher then quotes French philosopher Alawn Badu
quote to justify their conservatism. The partisans of the established order cannot really call it ideal or wonderful, so instead they've decided to say that all of the rest is horrible. Sure, they say, we may not live in a condition of perfect goodness, but we are lucky that we don't live in a condition of evil. Our democracy is not perfect, but it's better than bloody dictatorships. Capitalism is unjust, but
it's not criminal like Stalinism. We let millions of Africans die of AIDS, but we don't make racist nationalist declarations like Lamosovich. We kill Iraqis with our airplanes, but we don't cut their throats with machetes like they do in Rwanda unquote. And already parts of this are slightly outdated.
Oh yeah, because.
Now, But this is the thing is both are tragedies where millions people die, right. One of them is through the aesthetics of neoliberalism. The other one is through asthetics of racist nationalistic declarations, which the Trump administration is currently playing with. That is what they decided to do. Yeah, and so the reaction to it is on this aesthetic note, not necessarily on this pure actual humanistic opposition to deportations as a process that is inhumane that we should not allow at all.
Yeah. I see the logic of this all the fucking time, talking to people where like we'll be like, okay, like no deportations, and then you get a whole bunch of people being like, wow, but what about criminals just like some some deportation? What do is this is the structural logic of the original like deportation blitz from Trump.
Creating a class of undesirables that you can then always add to and press the border on. Like what Karl Schmid talks about this is the structural logic of fascism. Yeah, but everyone everyone thinks about deportations this way now, and they're mad that Trump is doing it and not Biden.
But you know, until people actually break through the sort of pure opposition to the aesthetics and actually start, you know, having a kind of totalizing opposition to the system that is doing this, we're just going to be stuck here.
And this is I think one of the limits of using anti fascism as this like aesthetic code hunting, is because a few days ago, the ths posted a Woody Guthrie song, his song America the Beautiful, with the DHS posting the promise of America is worth protecting the future of our homeland is worth defending. Notably, everyone in this video is all white people, which this sentiment is the same thing as the fourteen words, except it has fifteen words,
so therefore not a Nazi dog whistle. We're safe, guys, we're good. I counted the words. There's fifteen of them, so you can disregard what the actual text is saying. And I think that is like the prime the prime contradiction in which I am growing increasingly frustrated So that's most of what I have to say about the limits of Nazi code hunting and the the aesthetics of superstition and the paranoid style in American politics. Mia, do you have any any final wise notes?
The time for Nazi code hunting, if there ever was one, has passed. It is now time to end the episode right here.
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This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what is happening in the White House, the crumbling world what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. This episode, I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Tout, and Robert Evans. Were covering the week of July thirtieth August seventh. Robert, what is Texas?
So the original root word of the state's name is Tejas, which means friendship, a thing that no one in Texas has ever known because it's the angriest meana state in the country. That's that's Texas.
Garrison up for some stiff competition these days, for some stiff competition.
But it's still it's still holding out, isn't it.
Everything's bigger in Texas Garrison.
It's it's famed as being the second or third worst state that borders New Mexico. So you know, rarefied company. Really it can compete with all of the states bordering New Mexico except for Colorado. But the state's bordering New Mexico except for Colorado are Oklahoma and Arizona and Texas, so not high bars.
Texas has some of the finest abt and breakfasts that I've ever stayed in, that's right, including one with a deeply disturbing basement.
Okay, just because they had one torture based on James. So we're talking about Texas right now because a bunch of the Democratic state legislators just fled the state for Illinois, I believe.
Is how the name of the state has pronounced yea French.
It's French. It's French.
Fact check for a real illinoisan wrongsupposed fact checks by really annoyance.
So when you've got a legislature of pretty much any type, at least in the US I'm sure there's other countries that don't do it this way. But you need what's called a quorum in order to actually do anything, which means of the total number of elected members of the legislature, you need a certain number of them. Otherwise you can't like do anything because there's not enough people there in order to actually have it be a valid vote. And
I probably don't have to explain the reasonings why. There's some pretty obvious reasons why you'd want it to work this way. But there are, however, some downsides to it. You know, potentially you can be depending on whether or not your side is doing it. It's a downside or an upside, right, which is that if you have a side that is the minority in the government and they don't want a vote to go through, they can just bounce.
And if they bounce at the right time, before the legislature has been called and like no one's there, then you can't get a quorum and nothing can get done. And this is big news right now because in order to stop a redistricting vote, a bunch of Democratic legislators have fled. But this is a thing that has been going on for well over a century. And it is a thing that both sides of the aisle have engaged in with substantial regularity. I'm not an expert on any
of this. The earliest example I can find if anyone doing this is in Texas. And I'm not saying that means it's the earliest example of anyone in the US doing this, But the earliest example I found in my
research was from eighteen seventy. So there's an article on this in that by the Texas State Historical Association called understanding the rump Senate of the twelfth Texas Legislature, and the rump Senate is a term applied to the fifteen radical Republican members of the twelfth Texas Legislature who fled in eighteen seventy to stop a vote on a militia bill. And this bill gave the governor power to declare martial law. It gave him the power to establish a state police force.
It increased the appointed power of the governor.
A bunch of stuff that's not all that interesting to us today because governors, like every state does this today, right Like there's state police everywhere. Every state governor has the power to call a militia, you know, a national guard or whatever. Like.
This is not controversial today, but it was back then. And it's important that I note that while it was fifteen radical Republicans who fled in eighteen seventy, those were conservatives, right, Like the radical Republicans were conservatives in eighteen seventy. Right, So this is this is kind of a reverse if you're just sort of looking at things from a liberal or conservative point of view. This is kind of a reversal of what's happening right now in Texas, although it's
happened a lot of other times since. Right, So this is eighteen seventy. Should note it didn't succeed, right. This is, however, one of the fairly rare times when this kind of
thing happens. If it goes on long enough, every time, the governor basically will declare an arrest warrant for the legislators who have left, And as a general rule, this does nothing, right, Like, the governor has the ability to find them a certain amount per day, and it has the ability to call out an arrest warrant, but it's not like a real arrest warrant, like if you murder a guy and then lead to another state an arrest warrant will be issued that law enforcement in that state
has to abide by. Right because you murdered somebody, this is not a real crime. Basically, if you flee back, if you wind up back in the state that you left, you can be taken into custody by law enforcement in the state, but they can't leave the state to get you. And almost I would say, like ninety percent of the time when something like this happens, nobody actually gets arrested. However, in eighteen seventy several Conservative members were held under arrest
for like three weeks until the Senate could pass the legislation. So, as is usually the case, whenever stuff like this happens, it only succeeded in kind of delaying the inevitable. It didn't succeed in actually stopping things. And this has happened a number of times in Texas, most recently Texas Democratic lawmakers broke quorum in twenty twenty one. And I want
to quote here from an article in ABC News. Quote Texas state lawmakers left Brookquarran twenty twenty one when Democratic House representatives fled Texas to prevent measures restricting voting options. The measures eventually passed after internal democratic fissures led to enough representatives returning to form a quorum. And this is the kind of thing where Governor Abbott allowed the Sergeant of Arms or commanded the Sergeant of Arms to arrest
the members within Texas. Weirdly enough, a couple of them did return. The first was Philip Cortes, who briefly came back to Austin to handle personal business and there was a civil arrest warrant signed, but then he fled the state again before he could be arrested. There were warrant signed for the fifty two remaining absent legislators, but law enforcement didn't arrest or detain anybody. Eventually, enough democratic legislators
came back into the state for like personal reasons. Some of them had like shit to handle, like in their own life. Some of them had other things they wanted to push through in terms of like legislature, and so they were like, I guess I'll come back and let this happen. And eventually the House reached quorum. And this past Democrats did not face the five hundred dollars a day fine that they'd been threatened by the governor, and nobody was arrested. Now, I've been talking about Texas here,
but this happens all over the place. In fact, when this story first broke, the immediate thing I thought back on was what happened very recently in the state of Oregon, and has happened a couple of times in the state of Oregon.
You know it was mine too. They do this all the time, They do this a lot.
But yes, this is a common thing in Oregon. It has started, and this is both parties have done this. I should note right, both Democrats and Republicans in Oregon, as in Texas, have done walkouts.
They don't even have to leave the state.
They don't even have to leave the state, although they have recently. This seems to have started an Oregon I think in the nineteen seventies. There's actually a really good article that's like an overview of a bunch of different states history of doing this in Oregon Central Oregon Daily News, although it's an ap Press article, so I guess Central
Oregon Daily just is licensing this thing. But anyway, in Oregon, the most recent case of this happening was in twenty twenty three, after Republicans staged a six week boycott, which is the longest so far in Oregon legislature history, over a rule a law of the Democratic Party was pushing to protect abortion rights and the right to gender firming
care for transgender people. This again did not succeed. This was passed in the legislature and there were actually some consequences, although it hasn't been enough time to see how serious
there will be. Because there was a different GOP walkout over climate change legislation which also failed in twenty twenty two, and as a result of that twenty twenty two walk out, voters approved an amendment to the state constitution in Oregon which barred lawmakers from getting re elected if they had more than ten unexcused absences in a single annual legislative session. And as a result of the walkout the next year over abortion rights and gender firming care, ten Oregon Republican
lawmakers were barred from seeking re election again. As I stated, this is something that very rarely actually does anything. There's a twenty twenty one case in New Hampshire where Democrats walked out in protest of an anti abortion bill. The Republican House speaker locked the doors to maintain a quorum. I'm going to quote from the Central organ Daily article. I'm locking the doors right now so that everybody in
the chamber will stay in the chamber. Shout at House Speaker Sherman Packard, who later refused to let Democrats back in to vote on the bill.
It's just fucking like representative politics is just snol children shouting at each other. I want them to fight with canes. They should be fighting with King agreed. Give them, give them all enough, let them fights it out.
I would say ninety percent of the time, nothing is at least from the reading I've done, nothing is achieved except for a delay, which is not to say that that's nothing. And also I do believe, like in the case of the Democratic Party, I don't think what the Texas Democrats are doing will stop the redistricting. Like the Republicans are going to win this fight. It's worth fighting. Yeah,
I'm glad they're fighting it. However, very rarely is the actual law stopped or is anything but a delay achieved. One of the rare cases in which something more was achieved is in twenty eleven in Wisconsin, Democratic state senators fled to Illinois as a protest against Governor Scott Walker.
He was attempting to strip public workers of their union rights and this, you know, this walkout was staged at the same time as a mass pro union demonstration at the capitol, and after several weeks they won a partial victory. Republicans weakened the legislation, which is like significant, right, like the fact that they actually got concessions over this, and
sometimes the delay can be significant. The same year that that all went down in Wisconsin, Indiana Democrats also left, for for whatever reason, ILLINOI is where you go if you're doing this. I don't No one wants to come get you know, wants to go.
No one's coming to Illinois.
It's just not worth it.
I've been to fuck Illinois and sorry, Illinois is the hero of this story. We love you Illinois. Yeah, Chicago's five, Chicago's fined for whatever reason. This is the state you go to if you're a Democrat doing this in the modern era. If you're in Wisconsin, it's not that far away. I guess, well, this is Indiana too, and also not very far away. Yeah, it's also not far Yeah, they couldn't make it to California. You know, it's further now that Texans are doing it.
Yeah, but Indiana Democrats left in twenty eleven to prevent Republican law that would have stopped unions from levying mandatory fees on union members, which would kind of make could potentially make it impossible to do a union because nobody wants to pay for a union, but everyone wants won right, Yeah,
every worker does you want the union protecting you. You don't want to have to give up your money, So it's the kind of thing you could I think the Republican plan was use the natural greed that people have in order to hamstring unionizing efforts. Many such cases and the Democrats left, which left the House short of its quorum and threatened to stay in the other states until they were promised that the bills would not be called. Republicans successfully passed the bill, but they had to wait
until the next year. So again, every now and then you ECO win out here or the side doing this eeks out a win, and everyone does it, and everyone has been doing it for more than one hundred and fifty years. Nothing about this is new, with the exception of the fact that they actually look to be pushing some serious legal consequences. The most I've been able to find in the history of this is what happened in eighteen seventy where a number of people were arrested and
held in custody for a few weeks. Usually no one is arrested, and usually the fines aren't even actually levy. Right now, this does cost money. The last text walkout, Texas Democrats were spending like ten grand a day on food and board, you know, paying for their hotels or whatever, which was I think Beato Olor raised most of the money through his pack which is what covered it.
A few hundred grand, Yeah.
Like six hundred thousand dollars. So you know, this does cost money to do because you've got to put these people up. But generally you're not really hiding them, and generally the legal consequences are more of a threat than a reality.
Right, and that might not be true in this most recent year.
Yes case, Yes, And we're going to throw to you, Garrison, But first you know who does force serious life changing legal consequences on people?
Jay Pritzk.
Yes.
And the products and services that support this podcast, which are entirely we're actually backed entirely by JB.
Pritzker from your mouth to God's ears, Robert.
Not like knowingly I stole his debit card, and boy, that guy has a high daily spending lem let me tell you yeah, but he has a lot of shadow companies anyway, Thanks JB. Please don't change your password to your online bank. Garrison, Hi, We're.
Back, so as Roberts said, Republicans in the Texas Legislature are trying to jerrymander Texas to increase their total power over the state, proposing a redistricting map that would add five more Republican seats, and in an effort to prevent or delay this, this past Sunday, sixty two Texas Democrats have fled to Illinois to deny quorum in the Texas House, and only twelve need to return in order for the redistricting to go through, with the main goal right now
being trying to stay out of the state until November. In terms of consequences, new House rules adopted back in twenty twenty three after the twenty twenty one quorum, I can impose a five hundred dollars fine per day for missing lawmakers, not just from the governor. Now on Monday, the Texas House Republicans voted to issue civil arrestaurants for the lawmakers, empowering the Sergeant of Arms and the Texas State Troopers to locate, apprehend, and transport the rogue legislators
back to the capitol. Governor Greg Abbot announced he had mobilized the Texas Department of Public Safety to return the Democrats to the chamber. Now, these warrants really only apply within state lines. These are civil warrants. They're not facing criminal charges though. Back in twenty and three, during a similar quorum break due to gerrymandering efforts, fedral resources were
used to track planes with suspected rogue Democrat lawmakers. An Abbot has already proposed trying to declare their House seats vacant if they do not return, a tactic which would probably prompt some lengthy legal battles and require new special elections to take place to fill the seats. So that still would like delay this process. That's not a quick solution. But there has been some breaking news as of this
morning recording Thursday. On Thursday morning, Texas Senator John Corbin announced that the FBI would now be investigating and working to locate the Texas House Democrats saying in a press release, quote, I thank President Trump and Director Patel for supporting and swiftly acting on my call for the federal government to hold these supposed lawmakers accountable for fleeing Texas. We cannot allow these rogue legislators to avoid their constitutional responsibilities unquote.
So the extent of the FBI's involvement in tracking, down, locating, or apprehending the Democrats is currently unknown. The FBI has declined to comment, but this is something that's going to develop in the next week, which.
They always do when ongoing case. Is like, sure, if you email or whatever the FBI about any ongoing case. This is what they do, period. It's been their policy for p Yeah.
So it doesn't tell you anything, just saying that in terms of like, we do not know what the extent of their involvement is going to be at this point, right, yeah, right, And they might not even know either.
Yeah.
This could just be a tech cashpitl TikTok.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's a good chance they're internally scrambling to like what are we gonna do?
Like this would be unprecedented sending a federal like law enforcement arm to to to physically apprehend and return lawmakers. That is certainly an escalation from using like federal resources to track planes like they did in twos and three. This would be a whole new ballgame.
Yeah. As I noted, it's uncommon for them to be arrested inside the state by the sergeant at arms.
Yeah sure, I mean, like arrest just means, you know, you'd like accompany them back to the capital or force them to return to the capital.
You're staying here, You're not going to leave to the state.
Yeah, you've got a guy called sogeant Arms involved. It's not serious, but even that's purely uncommon. Yeah.
No, I mean, like most corm breaks fail because legislators just choose to return, whether to do personal business, whether to do political business. It takes a lot of discipline to not return to your home for a period of like three to six months.
Yeah, you get stuff to do. Most people, a lot of people have what are called familized Famali's something like that.
For media, I don't know.
I think it's a new concept. Yeah, we're still working at cool Zone to get a handle on it. We'll have a report on whatever that is, so don't worry.
Yeah, they got to get back to the polycule or whatever. But they haven't violated a federal law right lately. No, so federal, they'ven't violated a Texas law.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not a law violation. It is literally the governor saying I'm sending guys for you.
Yeah, it's just some old timey parliamentarian shit.
Yeah.
And like you know, as I was saying, it's like again, it isn't this could just be a cash hotel TikTok op.
But also I hate the way that sounds.
I what a fucking way to describe a federal law enforcement Oh it's on hinge.
This is genuinely okay, I'm gonna take a very very slight detour, which I said this before. But also, like the thing that gives me the most hope about all of this is that, like, look, they found the right winger to put in charge of the American seecret Police, and he doesn't want to do his job because he just wants to be a podcaster.
Hey understand, Look, you make me director the FBI, and I promise to be more or less the same.
Yeah.
But you know, but if this is actually a thing, right and federal agents is only grabbing vallmakers out of Illinois.
That is that's a big deal. Yeah, that's a massive escalation.
And that's why, as people fully supported by Pritzker's private militia, we will be on the front lines defending the Texas lav makers. That's right, saluting the Chicago flag.
M hm.
Yes, as as governor, Pritzker recently stated blood for the blood gods, skulls for the skull throne. Classic Pritzker.
I mean, you need to do some Pritzker not even slander here. So just fuck you. Tiny bit of fun Pritzker news, which I was gonna talk about a little bit anyways later. But Pritzker has basically allowed a bunch of hospitals in Chicago to stop covering gender affirming care for minors, even though it's like illegal under Illinois state law. So fuck him for that. Eat shit. Yeah we we we will unfortunately oppose the Kannie of the Great Plains.
And what's the reasoning there? Has he given any He was.
Just like, oh, well they're gonna lose funding.
Ah, oh no, it is over yeah, okay, yeahs it is over the threats. But like, yeah, a number of states have been have been something similar as brewing in Oregon, right now.
Yeah, we've we've Yeah, this has been happening Oregon. We just had an episode about people resisting this in Pennsylvania. This will be a continuing, ongoing struggle. But I fuck you Pritzker eat shit.
Like I do have two science stories for this middle segment here. First one, I'm gonna call on everyone's I don't know, probably my least favorite Kennedy.
RFRS Wow controversial. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of bad Kennedys.
After reviewing the science and consulting top experts at NIH and FDA, HHS has determined that mRNA technology poses more risks than benefits for these respiratory viruses. That's why, after extensive review, BARTA has begun the process of terminating these twenty two contracts totaling.
Just under five hundred million dollars.
To replace the troubled mRNA programs, we're prioritizing the development of the safer, broader vaccine strategies.
Sure, sure thing, sure thing, mister Kennedy.
Oh Jesus fucking Christ.
Yeah that sounds true, and not like we're throwing away a holy grail of medical miracles.
Literally won the Nobel Price.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so this is this is some devastating news where he is removing twenty two contracts researchers and universities that are developing new mRNA vaccine technology and earlier in that video. So I'm not going to play because
it's just him basically lying. But he was lying about how mRNA technology has been ineffective against upper respiratory infections because it only targets a single protein which not only becomes obsolete due to mutations, but actually accelerates the mutation process in prolongs pandemics.
This is not true.
You can no, it's not true. This is not true.
And one of the most unique aspects of mRNA technology is that the vaccines can be developed at a much faster pace to be deployed against mutations. And even if a vaccine is not does not one hundred percent prevent an infection, that doesn't mean they still won't like decrease the severity of symptoms. He is trying to coat his decades decades long like anti vaccine advocacy in this like scientific language while actually just like stripping away all of
the funding and removing access to vaccines. And this is the stuff that he promised not to do. In his confirmation hearings, he said that he would not take away vaccines yep, and he would not change who's on the vaccine advisory panels.
He has done both of those things so far.
Like two months ago, he fired all seventy members of the advisory panel. I talked with Cave about this, and he replaced them with eight anti vaxxers. And not only did he remove a multi billion dollar contract from Derna to continue mRNA vaccine research, he now canceled these twenty two other contracts, totally five hundred million dollars of technology. People are going to die and get sick because of these changes, yes, yeah, which doesn't just affect like COVID
and the flu. It also affects all of the other ways that mRNA technology can be utilized. A lot of these research projects are about expanding the possible use of this technology beyond upper respiratory infections.
So this sucks.
Yeah, this is real bad.
It's I am very nerve about the development of the HIV vaccine and cancer vaccines, things that we were getting so close to now being put intojeopardy because this fucking clown is in charge of health and human services.
A ton of is who I've done at the Salkansche in San Diego, Itchile.
It was reported earlier this week that some Republicans and Trump himself might actually not be happy about this. And Trump has a meeting scheduled with RFT Junior today to discuss these cancelations, so we'll see where that goes. In some other science news, Sean Duffy, interm NASA administrator who also has the Secretary of Transportation, who directed his employees to prioritize funding and grants to towards demographics with high
marriage rates. He announced that he was expediating plans to launch and operate a one hundred kilowatt nuclear.
Reactor for the Moon.
Great. Look, there's a lot of people living on the Moon and power outages have been a constant problem there. Garrison, if this science fiction novel from the nineteen sixties is accurate.
I talk with a friend of mine who is an anonymous NASA contractor. She gave a quote, quote I need a cigarette unquote.
Great, because he just got fucked.
It's also worth noting that all of this is coming in the context of the largest really like the largest cuts in the history of American science across the board to anything that's actually like I'm gonna get remotely doing science, Like yeah, sorry, I just I just want to go
on it, especially space science. Like Duffy's trying to manufacture this new space race and prioritize like manned moon missions, all while cutting at least fifty percent all NASA science missions and just like absolutely crippling NASA's capacity to actually develop technology. Now, Duffy said at a press conference and end seeing this new directive on Tuesday, quote, we are in a race to the moon, a race with China to the moon, and to have a base on the moon,
we need energy. Unquote is that fucking nineteen fifty talk? What are you talking about? That is the time when the greatness happened Garson.
They want to go back to that.
The NASA contractor I spoke with said, quote, NASA is already down at least twenty percent of its workforce and behind on its previously announced to lunar missions and objectives see the Lunar Gateway and Artemis three. I just don't immediately see a world where NASA does this successfully, even if they go the route of contracting it out. If the success. Specifically, the lack thereof of the Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program and the Commercial LEEO Destinations program has
any indication for how this will go. It will be mirrored in failure and many years behind schedule at best un quote. This new NASA directive from Shan Daffey calls for a Fission Surface Power Program Executive to be named by the end of August, who will then yes, yes, impleant, and oversee the project while reporting directly to the NASA Administrator.
The directive reads quote. Since March twenty twenty four, China and Russia have announced on at least three occasions a joint effort to place a reactor on the Moon by the mid twenty thirties. The first country to do so could potentially declare a keep out zone, which would significantly inhibit the United States from establishing a planned Artemis presence
if not their first unquote. And this is I think a big part of why Duffy is wanting to do this, and the contractor I spoke to you said quote, if they're able to extend some quote unquote exclusion zone around a reactor on the surface where other countries aren't allowed to land. It's not difficult to imagine that they may try to use this to de facto claim areas of the Moon for the United States.
Unquote.
Hell yeah, we have colonized the Moon.
And there is even more troubling use cases. Part of the directive reads that this would quote encourage do will use civil and defense operational architectures, Yes, for deployed fission surface power systems in coordination with interagency partners Moon base unquote. Space Force finally getting its moment in the sun on the Moon.
I guess this really is just like.
The pure unspeakable tragedy is unspeakable first version of colonialism, because it's like the Moon is the one place that is actually tyrannualists and there's nothing there and there's nothing to gain from being there. There's just nothing. But you know, we got to colonize it.
Yeah, but the sun ever sets on the American Empire if you've got the Moon on it as well, so you got that going for you.
It's just just it's just pure drive of colonialism detached from its actual like material motives.
Having failed to gain Greenland, we will pivot and take the Moon instead.
I mean, you know, the moon and Greenland are both similar habitable territories, so.
It's true, but you can't do backflips in Greenland.
So like, this is the plant of despicable meat. Like that's what we're doing here, We're doing the plaut of despicable me.
Yeah, many science fiction movies have predicted this, Please send them all to us.
Yes, as was noted by Robert Heinlend, the moon is indeed a harsh mistress. Wait, what is that I hear? Is that the tariff song?
Rocky jazz, rocky jazz. Sorry, rocky jazz, rocky.
Jazz, ah god, every time, every time, it's good.
Let's talk tariff tariffs. There's so many of them. The tariffs have gone into effect. So all right, we're gonna do a full episode about this on Monday, because there is so much tariff bullshit that it quite for needs its own actual episode in which we're going to be talking about shit like, for example, the US has maybe on accident, maybe on purpose, recognized the Junta meen Maar is the legitimate government to the tariff stuff. We're talking about that on Monday because we don't have time for
that shit. What we instead have time for is the just massive array of tariffs on a list of countries so long that we just genuinely can't read them all. Okay, this is a very very confusing raft of tariffs. In a lot of ways, it's simpler than the other ones. But okay, so so Persian, And if the US runs a trade deficit with you and you're not also in one of the other special categories where we have imposed a really high tariff on you, it's like fifteen percent.
If we have a trade surplus with the country we imposed a ten percent tariff. This doesn't make any sense, sure, Okay. So it's like in terms of the state of motives of the tariffs, it doesn't make any sense except in terms of like raising money, which these raised very little actual money run relative to like the amount of money the US spends.
I mean.
Right wing commentators have stated that the end goal of this massive tariff program is to abolish income tax because we can fund the government through TIFFs.
Actually great, yeah, and I just know that, No, you can't like this, No, this is just yeah. At the same time as said, driving the deficit into the fucking sky.
Like yeah, And we've talked about the sort of riffs that this has caused with like the sort of true believer deficit hawks versus these just completely unhinged fund the government with tariff weirdos. But Comma, there have been a huge number of countries that now we have fifteen percent tariffs on We've also gotten a formal announcement of the one hundred percent tariffs on semiconductors unless you invest do some kind of certificant investment in the US. It's deeply
unclear what the fuck that means. Apple hasn't pledged to invest one hundred billion dollars in the US. There's this very very weird thing on the right where like they just they think that you can make iPhones here. You can't. You just simply cannot. We you don't have the labor force, you don't have the technology. Yeah, but Tim Cook did just bribe Trump with a.
Nice plate golden iPhone, big ing get to gold.
So I thought it was a gold iPhone. There was some glass involved.
As well, No, it was it was it was a plate that was on like a gold like brick base.
I love that. Yeah, that's the way we're doing now beside it under the radar.
Cool.
You have to bribe the Supreme ruler by giving gifts of gold to grand good favor o.
God it is.
It's like fucking smoke whatever, Like it has this pile of gold that he's going to be sitting on. It's going to be Scrooge mcducking in that ship by the end of four years.
Oh, don't get us started on darktails.
Oh no, no, no, no, Yeah, that'll really inflate the length of this episode. That's what they call a layup in nine sports ball. Yeah, what's the tear us up too?
They're calling me the fucking webbin Yabo, fucking a fucking inflation shop blocking. Fuck this we're talking about. We're talking about hip infrastructure. People have been trying to develop like the infrastructure developed ships for a long time.
Now.
The Biden administration did this. The Chinese government isn't boring a bunch of money into it. And it's basically impossible to actually develop domestic hip infrastructure other than the kinds of infrastructure that the US already has, because the really short version of it is that it's not just a technological problem, and it is it's really hard to actually felt the technology. This is why almost all of the direct productions off the're trying to replicate basically just happens
in Taiwan. It's not just a problem of the technology is really hard. It's a problem of the machines to make the machines that you need to make. These things exist in like one place in the world, in Switzerland, right, So in order to actually scale up production of this would just in theory, what these one hundred percent imported semi conductor tariffs are supposed to do. Right, You have to go up three layers of the supply chain. You have to make the machines to make the machines that
make the machines that make the semi conductors. Right, That's like the simplest way to explain it.
We don't.
We can't fucking do that, like a we could throw a fucking hundred billion dollars, that's what they would do. Shit, Right, So they're chasing just a ghost. But you know, our entire sort of like trade policy is just being run by the just weird, fascist, miasmic phantoms of all of
these trade policy people. Now, it's also worth noting that there's been you know, another I guess kind of tariff that's been enacted other than hilariously the countries that tried to negotiate with Trump got worse rates than the ones who just waited until the imposted fifteen percent rate.
Generally that's good, it's funny.
But also so.
Trump has been threatening anyone who buys oil from Russia, and also I think then is weyla although it's been less for US on that with fifty percent tariffs. Right now he's threatening India with fifty percent tariffs because India has been buying oil from Russia that India's tariffs are currently a twenty five percent. He has also just straight up imposed to fifty percent tariff on Brazil for refusing
to release Bolsonaro. There's been some updates on that front where Lula is just straight up refusing to do direct talks at the US. Lula had an exclusive interview with Reuters where he said, quote, we had already pardoned the US interventions in the nineteen sixty four coup, said Lula, who got his political stri blah blah. Listen, listen to the Lula episodes we did, They're very good. More more Lula quote, but this is now not a small intervention.
It's the president of the United States thinking he can dictate rules for a sovereign country like Brazil, it's unacceptable. It's worth noting that this is actually a pretty massive change for like Lula specifically relations with the US. Lula actually had very good relations with George Bush. But he is writing a massive tide of Brazilian anti American nationalists, and he's attempting to spread this tide elsewhere.
Right.
He's been specifically saying that he's calling on organized resistance from particularly India and China. But the rest of bricks, which is a well, okay, bricks was originally a category of assets that's now kind of a vaguely a political alliance. Who's made members are Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. It's unclear if this will happen. I kind of I don't know, but Lula is the first person really really seriously trying to organize resistance to this outside of the EU.
The EU's also wonder a thread of thirty percent tariffs if they don't just sort of like see the Trump's demands. But like you know, again, India also negotiated a deal with the US and then immediately got their tariffs, like he's now being threatened with eighty percent tariffs, so you
can't negotiate with him to escape this. So I don't know, Lula, maybe this is the beginning of sort of organized, like large scale organized terriff resistance to the US being framed in this sort of like collective struggle versus the US thing. That's an interesting political trend that will be following as all of this continues. Okay, and the rest of the unhinged amount of tariff news we're going to be covering Monday.
I will make a brief note that the Yale Budget Lab is estimating like like a twenty four hundred dollars increase for the average family just in terms of like inflation prices for this, especially on things like clothing. They are specifically, I think there's a Ceneta articleipus. They're specifically talking about running shorts and shoes and anything any goods from South Asia massively increasing in price at talking thirty
percent increases very quickly. So yeah, now, obviously all of this news is I don't know, the stock market has kind of like accustomed itself to tariff news. Yeah, but COMA, we've got a really really bad job support last month, and.
Well actually, well well I don't know if that's true. I think the jobs report could be completely faked. Yeah, who can say, Jesus, if the president says it, it has to be true. It's a Biden did you have a Biden appointee? All crazy crazy.
The auto pen is issued to his job's report. So yeah, Trump, Trump has fired the Commission of the Bureau of Labor Statistics for releasing this report. We are just we are just truly fully into the deep end of shit now, Like the.
Report just showed that we didn't have very positive job grouths, and like anyone who's trying to get a job right now can confirm that.
It's like a nightmare. Yeah, and yeah, we're just like we're just like fully going to be in Like, you know, it's unclear exactly how fast American data collection capacity is going to degrade. It is worth noting this is the thing that kind of happens at the end of dictatorships when they really start going to shit, is that they lose the ability to trust their artistical apparatus.
Yeah, I mean, like anything that happens that Trump just doesn't like, you can claim it's fake and rigged.
Whether that's losing an election.
Whether that's his good, his good close personal friend Jeffrey Epstein, or if that's a Bureau of Labor Statistics job report, it's all rigged. It's all a hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But to tie this back to Lula for a second, I think it's actually really a really interesting historical parallel that's worth noting that Lula's rise to political prominence came off of a series of shrikes that was held because because a bunch of economists that were working with the inside the Brazilian labor unions figured out the military dictatorship of Brazil had been faking their inflation numbers, and like, this is one of the things that caused the end
of the dictatorship. So you know, you can only lie about the inflation rate for so long before like someone goes like, hey, you've been lying about this the whole time, and I don't know this has this has brought down military katters just before, and that's why we have to hold archive of our own accountable for faking those inflation numbers.
I agree with you entirely, Garrison.
I don't get paid enough for this. He's lost me not following and yeah, that has been terriff talk.
You know what will continue to be of available to our listeners at an excellent price despite tariffs, the products and services that support this podcast. That's absolutely correct, Garrison, well done. All right, we're back, so bad And also back is the United Kingdom, where a poll shows that more than half of Britain's think there are more migrants in the UK illegally than legally. This isn't true, no, but feelings matter way more than facts. Failings matter, yes
they do. The actual data, even at the highest estimate of undocumented people, shows that it's around ten times more foreign people who are in the UK with documents. This is indicative of a broader issue, right that the discussions we're having around immigration are nearly all based on massive amounts of misinformy. Misinformation by a mission was extremely common in legacy media until very recently, right like, there was
simply not people covering immigration in a serious fashion. Even in the Biden administration, the reporting that was done was atrocious. This comes as the Labor government's disapproval rating in the UK hit sixty seven percent in a yugo of pol which I think is very indicative. What Labor did right was try to adopt right wing culture war positions to get people to vote for them, and it does not work,
and it is not working for them. You can look at their policies towards trans people, right, they're atrocious, and it's not buying them to favor they wanted to moving back to the United States. Yon sou Go, she's called Sue by her friends. It's been released by Ice after being detained at a routine hearing. A twenty year old young woman as a Korean national South Korean evidently right, and the daughter of a priest. So she's here on
a visa as a dependent of a religious worker. There are religious worker visas, and she's here as a dependent. She is I believe in the process of transitioning to a student visa. She had the hearing, her case wasn't dismissed or evoked. She had another hearing set for October. I claim that she overstayed her visa. Her lawyer says,
I claim it's not true. I'm particularly interested in this case because of the intervention of the diocese, the Episcopalian Diocese of New York, and so it was the Episcopalian Diocese New York's legal team who fought for her release. She was very quickly moved to Louisiana. We know that ICE likes so do this right. It likes to move people to places where it feels like it has a
favorable circuit court. The dioces of legal team was able to secure her release, but they are still working on the rease of a fifty nine year old ProView and asylum seeker who has been detained after having her court date moved up. So in her case, they said, hey, we've got a hearing that's opened up. When don't you come in on Thursday and then detained her, which is
just reprehensible. It is really good. I think that these big religious organizations are getting involved directly in these cases, that they are taking on responsibility, that they're using their pulpits as a place to oppose this. I think that's good. I think, regardless of your stance, aren't organized religion, you should be happy about that. These are institutions that have
power in this country. Talking of institutions that have power, detainees in Florida's Alligator Alcatraz are being denied their right to file court documents because federal courts are claiming they're not under federal jurisdiction. State courts are claiming they're not under state jurisdiction, which is fairly reasonable given that they have not been charged, whether or accused of, in many cases,
any crimes in the state of Florida. Right then, they're not being held They were not detained by well, sometimes they were detained by Florida law enforcement, I guess, but only in their capacity to enforce federal immigrates law. Yes, with the special deputized nawty, Yes, it's yeah, it's deputies, which we're about to talk about. There have been some very funny outcomes of that. This isn't it like I've seen it report as a loophole. It's not a loophole.
It's extremely fucking clear that they were detained by the federal government for immigration reasons, and they have every right to representation in immigration court right that this is not a loophole. They're just denying people their rights, and I think reporting it as a loophole is entirely ridiculous. A judge has ordered a document showing who is contracted by whom at the facility be produced as part of a
civil rights lawsuit. So what that will do would obviously document in the federal government's.
Paying some of this.
I know Rick DeSantis had wanted to use FEMA money for some of this breaking news. So Federal Judge Kathleen Williams has ordered the construction new construction holt. They won't be allowed to do any new filling, paving, or infrastructre building for fourteen days temporary pause. They can still continue to hold people right like. This is not going to stop those people being denied their rights, which is what
sort of stake here. So we talked a little bit about those Florida deputies right who have been I guess secondid to ICE orgs. They've been crossworn to do ICE work. ICE is recruiting very heavily right now. I'm offering fifty thousand dollars sign on bonuses. It has reduced the minimum age and it seems to have no maximum age cap. From what I can tell, this thing. Border Patrol has been issuing all kinds of waivers for years, right for all kinds of things that it's supposed to have as
like standard for its recruiting. So it isn't particularly new. ICE has been known for a while as kind of if you want to be a FED and go around and carry a gun, and you can't get hired to do gun stuff for the FED. To other agencies, ICE is probably the place you're going to end up, right, their standards are lower than other agencies.
And now they're like specifically selecting for the most like online unhinged right wing free to join their agency as like a national police force. Yes, and that's like what they're doing in their messaging online. And also some news this week Dean Kane has has joined I. Yeah, yeah, it's most likely in like a promotional capacity, but still worth noting.
Yeah, you might get chased by middle aged superman. So let's talk about what I was doing to recruiter festival. It is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on big trucks. We know Donald Trump himself, it's a found of big trucks, many pictures of him enjoying big trucks. Over the years, ICE has spent one hundred and ninety six thousand dollars on Ford raptors for recruiting purposes. The raptor, for those not familiar, is like a tricked out F one fifty.
They were issuing raptors to field agents for a while. They're not the best vehicles. Like, I've had plenty of agents complain about the raptism.
Yeah they're not yeah, yeah know.
And the BP had a special lowest possible trim of the raptor that like, they're popular now because people will buy them used as government surplus and make them good. But they yeah, the raptors they had didn't work too well. They also bought a GMC Yukon for one hundred and one thousand dollars, which is a very expensive GMC Yukon. I have also noted that ICE is recruiting from the police who have been cross sworn into doing ICE enforcement.
This has resulted in some very funny beefs between agencies including can I share this video? Can I screenshare?
Yeah?
Yeah, let's that's what's the video.
And then what has happened is ICE has sent emails to I don't know how many agencies by no, several agencies. I've talked to several sheriffs that their debuts have received these this request and basically it's a recruiting tactic. It's hey, we got your email, now you got certified, And there's something like dear colleague, you showed an interest in this and that, and we won't let you know that we are offering a fifty thousand dollars bonus paid ten thousand dollars at a time, and it.
Is for five years. Obviously, man, is that not you know?
Biden handed feeds you.
We we went through all of that, took our time, utilizing our local resource, not ours yet.
But local resources. And then they try to recruit you right.
Out for Monday, using the very emails that we give you.
Finally they've found something bad.
Ice is done.
Yeah, this is a new low even for Ice.
Yeah, Sheriff Chip simmons that calling Ice out for that poor form.
Sheriff Chip finally found something that shows the true depraperty, a compromised heart of Ice.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Where will they stop?
Well, let's talk about where they will stop or at least start spending. Ice has been spending some money this week. Some of this, I think, like some of the sort of reporting on IFC isn't hugely responsible. So like I as to sign a sole source contract with B two Technologies for example, for quote licenses for the inmate identification A recognition system and the mobile offender Recognition Information System.
They call these IRIS and MORRIS based on their initials. Right, these are for ers, so that's their enforcement and removal operations brands BO two pitches. IRIS is being able to identify people with no physical contact based on the tears in their IRIS. This technology has been used by police for a while, so you'll notice it was called the inmate identification so that the way they would obtain these Irish scans would be scanning people who were detained. CBP
will also have IRIS scans so well. Uscis right. This is one of the pieces of biometric data that's sometimes collected from migrants as part of their process and moving into the United States and then getting their documents, etc. What MORRIS will do is allow them to search a registry of previous offenders. In twenty twenty four, Niagara County Sheriff's Office were the first sheriff's office to add IRIS
to their vehicles. But a feeling reported as this is as a CBP officer or ice officers are going to be scanning people's arises with their phones. I don't see any evidence of that technology existing either in the contract that the government has or on the website for the
company that makes it. And guessing what this will do is if they have somebody who for instance, has previously been detained, somebody who has done time and come out, then they will users to like as a web of identifying them right when after they've detained them, before they take them to wherever. The big issue here, right, is that B two owns this database of scants. So this database includes Morris right, which is previous people who have
previous offenders. They have a sex offender registry within it. They also have databases of seniors who are at risk for going missing, so that I think there's people with dementia that people can voluntarily sign up to. And they have a data of missing children as well. They are two interesting company. They also they offer a bunch of services for detention companies. They previously partnered with the support our Sheriff's Foundation to provide lower cost prescriptions to sheriffs
and deputies. They're pretty embedded in this law enforcement world. Other contracts they saw for ice new tech solutions for fingerprint scanners. Again, fingerprint information is routinely taken from migrants and many one people getting green cards, people getting visas, people getting citizenship. Yes, yeah, anyone who has in any capacity and really engaged with uscis like all those categories
you mentioned, Garrison will have already done this. They did also purchase gray Key, which is more concerning, which is for breaking into cell phones locked cell phones. Yes, it's trying to get around the lock on your cell phone. I've written about grey Key before for Input magazine. Generally, the way they do this is that they try and make a copy of the cell phone and work on a copy so they don't get locked out of your
cell phone. But grey Key is an extremely various piece of technology for breaking into people's phones which you otherwise wouldn't be able to access. So yeah, that is that is what I have for ices spending spree this week.
For our last story I related to also talk about technology, but technology in the news some some AI incidents that have broken into people's news news gathering process. Former CNN anchor Chris Clomo has shared a fake AI video of AOC giving a speech in Congress calling out the Sydney Sweety American Eagle ad as racist.
Damn it, I got to see this. Why does it have to all be so stupid?
I was tweeting today and saw a clip of AOC saying that Sydney sweeneyad was racist, and so I replied to it, and I said, why do you care about this and ignore what matters most?
Why in all the times that you've.
Called on Israel to stop, why have you never told Hamas to stop, told Moss to surrender? Why would you ignore the Saint Louis attack on that Jewish guy who had his car bomb. AOC tweeted back and said, dude, that's a deep fake that Sidney tweety.
You suck in so many words, and she was right, they got me.
She was right, I suck. He has been owned. That's not bad, that's pretty good. That's funny.
I chose to I chose to cut off the click there.
Yeah, yeah, that's the right place for it to go.
On this AI video of AOC. It is clearly like like in Boston into the video himself. This is an AI video from from chat GPT memes plus AI art on Instagram.
Fucking this, this guy is being elevated as a fucking journalist. Jesus wept.
He later said on on Newstation on his show They Got Me AI. It was really good and it did seem like something she would say, I'm gonna now play yeah video in question to see if you think this is something that AOC would say.
Sidney Sweeney looks like an Aryan goddess and the American Eagle Jean's campaign is nazipaganda. I mean fuck watching that sultry little temptress squeeze into a Canadian Technice three silent with her bouncy little fun bags.
Staring at you. Oh my god, I don't know no more, no more. In the episode they.
Got me, Oh man, what a one of our greatest journalists. You know, AI really has to be. You know, we've hit a g I if it can, it can crack a mind as keen as chrism.
It was really good and it did seem like something she would say.
Good, even how her voice sounds unbelievable, unbelievable, some one of the most union things I've I've ever seen.
To watch that and then wonder why she hasn't commented on hermus in the same breath truating indication of where our country's hat.
That AI video is eighty seconds long. It gets so much crazier, but we don't need to say anymore. The other incident of AI in the News. Former CNN chief White It's correspondent Jim Acosta interviewed an AI avatar impersonating a school shooting victim.
Oh noess one of those things that like every town or someone was doing.
Yeah, yeah, yes, I caught this when it happened. Here's a video.
I would like to know what your solution would be for gun violence.
Great question.
I believe in a mix of stronger gun control laws, mental health support.
And community engagement.
We need to create safe spaces for conversations and connections, making sure everyone feels seen and heard.
It's about building a.
Culture of kindness and understanding.
What do you think about that.
I think that's a great idea, Joaquin.
That's not even an answer. That's not an answer.
This is one of the good things I've ever seen, create a culture of kindness and understanding.
Yeah, that'll fix it. Thanks.
Incredible humanity.
Not a person that's someone's child.
That's not someone's child, all right, Jim Acosta, routt is just a generic Well, no, it's it's it's not a person. This isn't a humanous Yeah.
Yeah, but they've attempted to reanimate through cringeji someone's kid and they look like a character and it's a small world.
Yes, the parents are involved in this process. Jim Acosta wrote on Blue Sky at four pm, I'll have a one of a kind interview with Hakeem Oliver. He died in the Parkland school shooting, but his parents have created an AI version of their son for a powerful message on gun violence. Unquote, you did not interview Lachem Oliver. That's that's not that's not him. You did not interview that person.
No, you did not.
You didn't interview anybody.
You have helped to spread a fake puppet of someone without their knowledge and consent, just as just as gross is doing it for like movie actors right who have who have died. This is and you know, more more gross actually actually like significantly more gross.
Yeah, it didn't even suggest like it it wasn't even like willing to be like ban AR fifteen's or whatever. Yeah, like there was no nothing suggested here, Like I can't believe how milk toast for a dead person who was killed by an AR fifteen. It wasn't even willingness. It was just like vaguely new gun control and also a culture of kindness. But like can't even be specific.
This ghoul that you've made, You're putting fake words in someone else's like death mask mouth. It's yes, it's so, it's so unethical, Like I don't even know what to say. It doesn't work at CNN anymore. But my god, Like this is not journalism in any way, shape or form.
No, I don't want to like punch down on the and I don't understand, Like I know parents who have lost children right through my work. I've talked to lots of them what I'd like to and I understand the desire to get your kid back in some form and if sure, whoever the fuck came to them and said, we're going to make an AI of your child so it can argue with journalists about gun control?
Is a fucking ghoul perival.
No, the the fault here is on the people promoting technology and in effect that's what Jim Accosta is doing here as well.
Yeah, totally no, because the journalist is totally irresponsible.
And profiting off of it.
It's so gross.
So anyway, that was our AI news to close the episode. Sorry, we couldn't end on the aoc ad. Instead had to end on a bit of a more more sour.
Note, Yeah, I generally want to know where that aoc ad goes. I'm gonna watch it.
Oh, I'll send it to you, James. Yeah, okay, we reported the news.
Yeah, I guess we reported the news.
Hey.
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