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Welcome to it could happen here a show but things falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis today I am joined by James Stout.
Hello, Hi, Ge, I'm excited to see what's falling apart today.
Well, that's our elections, which have, as we all know, have been rigged for as long as I can remember, which is kind of true considering when I was born circa the year two thousand oh.
Yeah, the famous, the great and democratic election of the two in the United States.
The flawless election of two thousand. Yeah. But no, we are going to be talking about Trump's continuing claims that the twenty twenty election was rigged and his investigation of election fraud in not just the twenty twenty election, but also the twenty twenty four election, which, if you recall, was not rigged against Trump, considering Trump won that election, including the popular vote.
Yeah, he won every way you could slice that up, a sweeping victory. Yeah, it was a file for the Democrats.
But a lot of the investigations into election fraud actually do revolve around the twenty twenty four voter roles, which
we will discuss in a bit. But first let's go back a few weeks on Executive Disorder, I reported that Cash Bettel went onto Fox News a few weeks ago and announced that the FBI would soon be making arrests related to Trump's claims that the twenty twenty election was stolen, with Patel saying it was a conspiracy and quote, they tried to thwart our elections and rig the entire system. We got all the evidence, we've got all the efforts.
I can announce on your show that we've got all the information we need. We're working with our prosecutors, the Department of Justice and the Attorney General Todd Blanche and we are going to be making arrest and it's coming, and I promise you it's coming soon.
Patel also claimed on Fox News, quote, we have the information to back President Trump's claims. About a week and a half later, the DOJ announced quote multiple aliens charged with illegally voting in federal elections. It's multiple James, multiple, well.
O case, yes, but what we're looking at three?
No, no more than three, more than three. It was four. It was fun.
Fun to me, Okay, just for people who aren't familiar with the skir of the United States, it's it's not a statistically significant number. When it comes to electoral outcomes, generally they are decided by several multiples of four.
Usually yeah, Patel commented, quote Securing our elections from criminal actors here at home and around the world is one of the top priorities for this FBI. Non citizens voting is a federal crime, period and while other administrations may have looked the other way in the past, those days are over. We will continue to work around the clock with our interagency partners to ensure those who engage in
such conduct will not get away with it. So these arrests took place in New Jersey, and these quote unquote multiple aliens. There were four permanent residents who registered to vote and cast ballots in at least one federal election before applying for naturalization via the N four hundred. Now the N four hundred form has a section where it asks if the applicant has ever registered to vote or
has voted in a federal, state, or local election. Three of the people charged in New Jersey checked no in the box asking if they had voted. The other left the box blank, but when later questioned by an Immigration Services officer at the USCIS interview, this applicant answered no, that they did not or have not voted. Now, interestingly, only two out of the four are actually charged with
quote voting by an alien in a federal election. Okay, Three are charged with false statements in relation to naturalization, yeah, and two are charged with procurement of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully.
Yeah, because I'm guessing the goal here would be to denaturalize.
Them, right for the people that were naturalized that that looks like that will that will be part of what they do going forward.
Yeah, I know I've reported on this in need before, but like large parts of USCIS have denaturalization targets right in the same way that we've seen deportation targets for ICE and CBP. So like that will be the reason that though the specific charges, right, that is the easiest way to denaturalize someone. I was going to say the only way, but I think there are technically other ways.
But like the bulk of time you're going to see someone denaturalized, it's because they concealed previously, it had been that they had concealed like some loyalty to like like a terrorist group, right yea or preps. There are bars for like communists and Nazis. Like like with capital letters, I'm not talking about the political affiliation. I'm talking about like being a member of a party with a party card there, I'm not talking about it the view necessarily.
Yeah, that's a whole other Like tangents, there's back and forth rule legs. If you can really denaturalize someone for being a member of a communist party still depends what they mean by communist party. Yeah, that's kind of like a vague term. But the false statements in relation to naturalization, as in allegedly lying on the form by checking a box that conflicts with what the federal government is alleging, is a much more clear cut route to denaturalization. Yeah.
One of the people charged is a Green Card holder from Liberia who immigrated as a refugee in nineteen ninety eight, named David Nwili. He's currently seventy three years old. He allegedly registered to vote in New Jersey in two thousand and three and attested he was a US citizen. The complaint claims Nuelly voted by mail in the twenty twenty general election and submitted a provisional ballot in person on November fifth, twenty twenty four for that general election next May.
It's May twenty twenty five. Nuelli submitted a N four hundred claiming he had never voted in the US, but admitted to voting twice in the naturalization interview. Okay, he is charged with voting by an alien in a federal election and false statements. Yep, those are charges he's facing.
That's interesting because he like he seems to clarified it in the interview, right correct. I don't quite know how that works, but.
Like he did admit in the interview that he that he did vote, but they're still charging him with false statements based on the N four hundred, And.
It will be interesting to follow. It could be pretty hard to stick the landing on that given that he I mean, I guess technically what you put on the form is there's no take backs, I guess, But him using the interview to clarify it certainly, see like he's trying to do what is in the spirit of the things asking him to do. Yeah, that will be an interesting one to follow.
This was also interesting because it shows the investigative capacity of the FBI. This guy admitted to that, like he admitted to this in the USCIS interview, the FBI did not like crack the case.
Yeah, yeah, like there, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, he told he told the cops that he did it. Yeah. When was his USCIS interview.
I'm not sure when the interview was. He submitted the N four hundred and May twenty twenty five, okay, so Trump two, it would have been in late twenty twenty five. Yeah, this was at least within the last year.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it was some of those N four hundreds thing forever now totally. It's kind of interesting, but yeah, I'm just wondering to what extent previously, I don't actually know, to an extent previously USCIS would like refer people for prosecution.
Yeah, that is that is a good question.
Yeah.
Oh wait, wait wait wait no, here here here. August twenty twenty five, okay, was when he was interviewed, according to the criminal.
Complaint relativity first turnaround. Yeah, I wonder if that's just a part of the country he's in, or whether that was because like they wanted to get in the office, right, And then I had to clarify or detain him because he had voted.
And then in October USCIS denied the application due to a lawful acts of voting in the twenty twenty and twenty twenty four elections and the false statement on the end. Four hundred.
Yeah.
We will take an ad break here and then talk about the three other cases after these messages. All right, we are back. Iden Koresh, forty three years old, is a Green Card holder who immigrated from Israel on a B two visa in twenty fifteen. In twenty twenty one, Koresh allegedly registered to vote in New Jersey, asserting he was a US CITZ and voted in person in the twenty twenty two midterm election. Grash later submitted an N four hundred and twenty twenty five based on his charges.
I believe his citizenship was granted because he's charged with voting by an alien in a federal election and procurement of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully. A lot of these criminal complaints are quite short, around seven pages, okay. Jascynthic Zoom is a seventy year old Green Card holder who's lived in the US since two thousand after emigrating from Jamaica. She allegedly registered to vote in twenty eighteen and voted
by mail in the twenty twenty general election. She's submitted in N four hundred and twenty twenty one and was granted citizenship based on what the DOJ is calling false statements. She's charged with two counts of false statements in relation to naturalization.
Two counts would be I guess, registering to vote and voting.
She's, oddly enough, one of the ones who's not actually charged with voting in a federal election. She's just charged with two false statements. This is I think, one in the interview, the other on the end four hundred.
Oh okay, yeah, that caind of makes sense to Yeah, yeah, it's interesting they didn't charge Maybe, like I guess, they're like eyes on the prize, trying to denaturalize someone.
Yeah, I mean, but like a big part of the FBI's messaging in this is, you know, we found people who are illegally voted, but half of the people here aren't actually charged with that, and I don't quite know why.
Maybe it's the erectally possible the charges could be added later, but at least in the original criminal complaints issued when DJ made announcement, eg Zoom is not actually charged with voting, even though even though the criminal complaint says that she did, but it's not, it's not one of the charges.
Yeah, the normal pattern with federal charges is to have a lot of charges and like most of these federal cases will end in plea bargains, right because the exposure is so high. So yeah, it's interesting that that's not there when normally the patents to put as much as you can in front of the person so that you end up with the plea vargain.
This last guy is also not charged with illegally voting in a federal election, being a done. Vig is a thirty three year old Green Card holder who immigrated from India in twenty twelve. He's alleged to a registered to vote in twenty sixteen and subsequently voted in person for the twenty sixteen general election and then by mail in twenty twenty. Vig later submitted an end four hundred and twenty twenty three, but he only faces one charge, procurement
of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully. So again, a lot of these charges, even even though the criminal complaints allege a lot of the same stuff, the actual charges very greatly and it's it is unclear why exactly that.
Is, Yeah, I think different. They're all in New Jersey, all New Jersey, say same year, say attorney. Yeah, yeah, it's it's interesting. It'll be interesting to follow those cases as well. Like I know, like I said that they have some sort of denaturalization targets, so whether they're just focusing their energies on that. It could be a case. So it could be something to do with the specifics of that crime that I just don't know about. Voting will not assitis in.
Yeah, there could be some prosecutorial reason that they aren't pursuing it in certain cases but are in others. Yeah.
And they're all alleged to voted in federal elections, right, that's yeah.
Yeah, yeah, in at least one federal election, either presidential general election or midterm general election. Yeah. And New Jersey does not have like local election voting for non citizens. Yeah. A few days before Patel announced the imminent arrests on Fox News, the Department of Justice sent a letter to the chief election official for Wayne County, Michigan, demanding Wayne County hand over all ballots from the twenty twenty four election.
The letter said that DOJ and its Civil Rights Division is authorized to investigate and prosecute individuals who may have registered to vote or voted in violation of US law. The letter included three instances of recorded allegations and convictions in Wayne County in quote unquote recent years related to voting fraud. This pushed by the DOJ to get their hands on ballots or voter rolls is part of a
much larger pattern. In January, during Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis, one of the demands from now former Attorney General Pambondi during negotiations with Governor Tim Walls was for the DOJ to be granted access to the state of Minnesota's voter rolls quote to confirm that Minnesota's voter registration practices comply with federal law unquote. Trump's DOJ has actually sued over thirty states for not complying with requests to gain access
to their voter roles. Cases against Arizona, Massachusetts, Rhode Island have been dismissed, as have cases in California, Michigan, and Oregon, but the DOJ is appealing those rulings. At least fifteen states have complied or since they will comply with quests by handing over voter registration lists, including driver's license and social security numbers. These are largely red states Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma,
South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming. In a March hearing in the case against Rhode Island to gain access to their voter rules, Eric Neff, the acting chief of the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, said that after receiving the voter roles quote, our intention is to run this against DHS's SAVE database unquote. That's the systematic Alien Verification for entitlements database exchange. Don't have briefly exxplain what the database is and how it's used.
In very basic terms, it is a database, so you have like E verified. Right will be an example of a database that employers can use to check if somebody is able to accept employment legally. In the United States. SAVE is there for government agencies, not individuals, and they should be able to determine whether or not somebody is eligible for certain benefits. Right. There are things called public charge rules. If people want a more in depth explanation
of public charge rules. You can scroll all the way back to November twenty twenty four, when I made a podcast about these things. We looked at a number of tools that the Trump administration might use to try and deport andtly naturalize people in a podcast episode back then. The problem with these databases is they're not very good.
The most obvious and amusing examples of everifying not being very good are when state agencies hire cops who DHS claims are not legally able to work in the United States, and then the state agencies point out that they used everify, which is DHS's own tool for verifying, and then everyone gets quiet and wonder, it's like a goo screwed up here, right, because they have done their obligation right, large employers have
to use you verify. The same is true, I imagine for save right in that it is not a database which is perfect, and so running one against the other. Also that the phrase running here is doing a lot of work, right, Like are they going to look for name matches? Are they going to look for social Security number or driver's license matches? Certain non citizens will have what's called an I T I N on SSN. There are a lot of ways which this could go horribly wrong.
There's a reason that these two databases are not normally combined.
Not to mention the fact that this provides a really large disincentive for people a signing up for benefits, right, which we've already seen just the rhetoric from the Trump administration in the campaign, provided a disincentive for people accessing benefits, but also for people registering to vote, right, Like, Yeah, people who are of diaspora communities, whether or not they are citizens, will be concerned about this, Like, and that is not a that is not an unconscious side effect,
I'm sure, right, And that is something that they are extremely aware of as they go forward doing this.
The Court raised concerns about SAVE and said that there has been reporting of people being falsely identified as non citizens in SAVES database, but Eric Neff responded that according to the DHS, the accuracy rate of the SAVE database is one hundred percent. So I'm sure that's fine. You it's just no database of the skill. No, that's just mathematically impossible, Like it's yeah, ninety nine percent and one dred percent are like vastly vastly different.
Yeah, But It's worth noting that, like in Trump's one of his early executive orders, like like Spring of twenty five, the one about preserving the integrity of American elections, part of what he asks them to do there was to overhaul SAVE and make it like a a single source citizenship verification yeah database, which it is not, and it is still not.
Yeah, and there's there's there that is that push from the executive order a few months ago to create like state citizenship lists.
M hmm. Yeah. They've tried to go a number of ways about this, right. They also the fall of last year they integrated SAVE with the with the passport database. I think most people will be aware that there are millions of American citizens who don't have passports for instance. Right. Yeah, They've added some other stuff, right, But the idea here is to create like and it should worry everyone, right, like, this is a citizenship database that they will then attempt
to combine with their biometric databases. I'm sure. And we've seen this with like the the name of the android app is eluding me. Now there's an Android app that Ice officers have which is supposed to verify someone's status based on the facial recognition scan. We know it doesn't work because there was one, for example, one lady who was scanned twice. Each result returned it different. Yeah, neither of which was her. This stuff is extremely dangerous for anyone, right,
Like you'd be a citizen or a non cenizen. The idea that they're going to check you against like the list of legit Americans should.
Really worry people. Yeah, and unable to pass the Save Act in Congress, not to be confused for the same database, though they are slightly related. Yeah, but unable to pass that in Congress. Trump signed executive order last March temping to force the Postal Service to not deliver mail in ballots if the voter on the ballot does not appear on this newly created list of pre approved voters using this state citizen list. Yeah, we'll see if that actually
goes through. But that's it's another example of them, you know, trying to trying to use state citizenship lists to just crack down on the number of people that are able to vote.
Yeah, we can all imagine that this will have different impacts across different demographics, right, and like that that is very much not accidental.
And the last thing for the voter roles in Fulton Keunty, Georgia, and Maracopa County, Arizona, the federal government has simply seized voting records. In Arizona, the FBI successfully subpoenaed twenty twenty election records from Maricopa County, and in Georgia, the FBI raided an election warehouse in January after dubiously obtaining a
search warrant. Yeah. Then on May sixth, a federal judge ruled that the federal government can keep the twenty twenty election materials that were seized in that raid, even if quote the seizure in this case was certainly not perfect unquote.
Yeah. Maricopa County's an interesting one, right, but I think it's part of a grand jury investigation. Yes, yeah, I can remember at the time and the twenty twenty election, like Maricopa County's results being somehow contentious.
The State Center did their own investigation into that, like several entities have. Right, the details of that investigation is in part what was the target of the grand jury subpoena.
Okay, not so much Maricopa County, but a number of Arizona counties were really important in the results of the twenty twenty election. Right, there was a massive effort for turnout. I personally know people in indigenous communities who literally traveled for the entire day to vote. The Indigenous turnout, especially Indigenous women in Arizona, really did make a big difference in the twenty twenty election.
And Americopa County is the like by population, the biggest county.
Maricopa County's fast A number of other like Arizona counties, like outside of a Maricopa were also really pivotal in twenty twenty election. It's not surprising to see those ones being tied. Like it wasn't surprising to me the time to see them being targeted, you know. Yeah, marracop is what Phoenix is, just for people to put it on the map. Famous for having really great law enforcement over the years, Joe Opio was aka do you sheriff? Yeah?
Oh yes, ah, last from the past.
Yeah yeah, not so often. Isn't he like doing some running for office or something? I thought he was he was for a bit. I have not thought of Joe Opio for a few years though. What a life to lead. Yeah, it's been a while. Wow, Joe Opio born in nineteen thirty two.
That's that's wild.
Yeah, he can't be even for the United States even a little.
Yeah, but no, Trump does continue to truth claims about Fulton County on his On his account of a few nights ago, he put out a video of the action board that he was edited to appear as if it was implying that there was voter fraud or that the elections were conducted improperly, and when that was not what
the video is actually actually showing. Yeah, but he is his truth a lot after the raid to watch out for the results of the of the Fulton County election raid and now federal judges letting the fence keep the materials that they seized, even if it was in the judge's own words, certainly not perfect.
Yeah. I think Fulton County plays a load bearing role in the in margus understanding of the twenty twenty election, right.
Yeah, and Trumps so that is where he got the mugshot taken right like this is like he is, oh, I've forgotten about that personal vendetta against Fulton County.
Yes, yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense. Uppie, by the way, did run for mayor of Fountain Hills in twenty twenty four. Oh my god, Yeah, just eight years before it's under its birthday.
What a country. Oh, that's incredible he did.
He received whopping one and twenty seven votes in the primary election. It's a thousand people who thought the best hope we have is someone who is a peaching no sheriff Joe at nearly a century of age. Remarkable.
Well, with age comes wisdom, Yeah, up to a point that doesn't for us today at a good half of the year. We will keep a lookout for any more any more arrests by Patel, who claims to have all the evidence he needs, even though the only arrests so far is just a handful of people from New Jersey and then I think one other person from Pennsylvania. Yeah,
it was arrested like in March. Again, because the actual number of voter fraund this country is it's minimal accord according to all investigations we've seen so far, very low.
It's statistically insignificant.
Yes, very low, to the point where it's statistically insignificant. I think if you're going to be considered of an election rigging, looking at the way that partisan gerrymandering has been completely completely allowed to go through and gerrymandering over districts that were protected by the Voting Rights Act. Look at what that is.
Polling places are look at the electoral college exists to be in between the popular vote and the result of the of the election. Right, there are there are many things which distort the will of the people. Non citizens voting is not statistically significant in that, like, it's just not. But if this will have a re electoral outcome, or is I guess because it will dissuade people from voting.
It will dissuade people who have become US citizens from voting, It will dissuade people who were born as US citizens.
And they could be pursuing charges against election officials in some of these states. Yeah, like that is part of trying to seize these these ballots and voter roles. Is not just to charge the possibly four people who may have illegally voted, but then trying to put some of the blame on election officials themselves. And yeah, and that is a motive of intimidation is certainly part of the
goal here. That's written explicitly in some of these executive orders threatening charges against US officials for allowing certain mail in votes to be to be counted when the Trump administration claims that they should not be.
Yeah. I think the nascence of this whole thing is Trump's cools to electoral officials in Georgia, right, like the Fulton County, the whole.
Yeah, fine, l find those votes.
Yeah yeah, that is where it all began.
So yeah, we'll keep up on this as it develops leading into the midterm election. But bye bye for now.
But early vote, often.
Vote early vote often.
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