Cool Zone Media.
Welcome to It Could Happen Here podcast about the most unhinged union story I have ever covered. I am your host, Mio Wung, and in a moment we will return to my interview with Yahoo Sports journalist Charles McDonald. So if you have not listened to the last episode, you should listen to the last episodes. We can get you up to the twenty twenties in terms of the horrifying and depressing story of the NFL Players Association's leadership gradually selling out more and more of their players.
And in this episode, we're going to really sort.
Of get down to the brass tacks of what's been happening in the twenty twenties and answering the question to what extent has the NFL paid in order to have a pro management installed at the head of the union.
A question that is really distressingly. We have good evidence.
Of this, but before we can get to that, we need to talk about one of the other absolutely horrifying things that this union regime has done, and that is the union covering.
Up as reported by Public Poria. Originally it reports by an arbitration judge about whether or not the independent teams in the NFL, which are supposed to be businesses competing against each other. And I kind of emphasize this enough because this is a major portion of how the NFL's anti trust exemption is supposed to work, is that these teams are nominally competing against each other. So there is
supposed to be a labor market with competition. But this document that the union covered up from an arbitration process they were in is about it has very good evidence of the league actively colluding in order to pay players less, and the union covered it up. So here we go back to our interview.
Let's talk about this collusion thing, because I've been losing my fucking mind about this for a really long time and I cannot imagine just literally having evidence in your hand that the owners are colluding against your members, like like these are literally you, like this is supposed to be.
You, and you're just sing hiding the report even like okay, so even if you lose the arbitration. Yeah, the fact that a judge wrote in a legal document that it was like beyond the benstead of a doubt that Roger Goodell and the thirty two owners were colluding.
We've seen text messages between the.
Cardinals owner and the Chargers owner talking about yeah, how much to pay Justin Herbert.
Yeah, Lamar Jackson.
Yeah, Okay.
Can we explain the Lamar Jackson situation and like explain who Lamar Jackson is for people who don't watch football so they can understand how unhinged this is.
Lamar Jackson is a wizard, is the best way that I could put it. Lamar Jackson. He is the franchise quarterback for the Baltimore Ravens, and I just think that anyone with the brain could have seen what.
Was going off.
Yeah, right, like with this situation, so so and even before Deshaun, even even before Lamar Jackson. You have to take it back to Deshaun Watson trade out of Houston.
Oh god, the one trade we've ever covered on this show, because holy shit, dude, Oh but this this is.
What got the Domino's rolling on this stuff.
Where As terrible as Deshaun Watson is as a football player now and obviously as a human being, yeah, like right when he was in Houston, it feels like a different world, but he was the man, Like he was incredible, like to the point where the Texans I think his last year starting there, they went four and twelve, and it was like, so obviously not his fault, like in terms of efficiency, like he was right behind Patrick Mahomes
to the top of the league. Like he got an apology from JJ Watt that year saying, like, dude, we wasted an absolutely incredible year from you. And then you know the thirty accusations of at best sexual mixed conduct, at worst sexual assault and in some of those cases.
Yeah, it's really hideous shit.
Right, So then it gets to a point where he the texts they don't want him there.
He doesn't want to be there anymore.
But you have what looks to be a franchise quarterback in his mid twenties available for any team to have, you know, with the trade. So my team, Sally d lash Falcons, they thought that they had a deal done for Deshaun Watson, and then the Cleveland Browns came in. And this is where the where the ownership you know, feedback with kind of gets broken, where Jimmy has them, breaks the ranks and says, I want this guy on my team so bad.
You know, this is why I like no by.
He ever hit free agency in the NFL, because this is what it would look like in terms of like when owners actually have to bid against each other for elite talent. Yeah, Jimmy has comes in and says, here's five years, two hundred and thirty million dollars. Every single penny will be guaranteed, no stipulations, nothing like that.
Which is like not how this works normally, Like, no one gets guaranteed contracts, right, And.
Because the previously the actual first player to get a fully guaranteed the contract from another team was actually Kirk Cousins with the Vikings when he left Washington. They gave him like a three year I think it was three years eighty eight million dollars fully guaranteed. But still that ain't five years, two hundred and thirty Yeah, you know.
And what the owners were mad about was not that you would seek out someone with the personal background Deshaun Watson to represent your franchise, is that you would pay any NFL player two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed.
Because now that sins precedent.
Because if you're Lamar Jackson whose contract was coming to an end at the season after de Shaun Watson signed this deal, I didn't touch those women. Yeah, I'm an MVP quarterback and I'm in my twenties. Why shouldn't I get a fully guaranteed contract. Yep, right, which is what he was doing. And the Ravens they said, okay, fine, go out into the market.
And I felt like I was going.
Insane during this because, oh my god, there were so many arguments from talking heads about why teams shouldn't sign Lamar Jackson. So he was hit with what's called a non exclusive franchise tag, which means the Ravens. I don't even know how how the idea of the franchise tag existing is another youth like labor.
L hideously anti labor practice.
Right, So his contract with the Ravens is over and they can hit him with an exclusive franchise tag, which means you will be playing for us next year. You basically have no say in it unless we remove this or you know, we work out a trade with somebody else that you cannot go negotiate with anyone else even
though your contract has expired. And yeah, to be quote unquote fair, like, the payment is a average of the top five you know, yearly salaries of the position you play, so you will get paid like you know, a top five player for one year at your position. It really only goes to mostly valuable players that they're trying to extend.
But they hit him with a non exclusive franchise tag, which means they have right a first refusal on if another team offers Lamar Jackson a contract, and that team would owe the Ravens two first round picks in order to sign Lamar Jackson. So, dude, Deshaun Watson just one for three. Yeah, and this rule is legally mandated. That
is two first round picks. And I'm sure you know the Raves will probably ask for a little stuff beyond that, but I only have to give you two first round picks and I can just sign Lamar Jackson just like a generational quarterback, like right, right, right, at this point, we're talking about a quarterback who is like twenty five years old. He's the first unanimous MVP, which he one of his first season as a starter. Yeah, since Tom Brady.
He's one of two players in like or you know, I don't know if it's two, but it's less than five players in the history of the league that have been unanimous MVPs. Every single person voted for Lamar Dacks to be an MVP, and the Ravens said, go ahead and negotiate with another team. And no one, no one even brought him in to talk to him, right, Like, it's unbelievable.
I grew up in Chicago, so like I grew up with the Bears, and my family are like a like a family like Seahawks fans. Right, Neither of those two teams have ever had a quarterback who's in the same stratosphere as this guy.
Like this is right. These guys never like ever ever ever.
Hit free agency, never ever, and people like they'll bend the rules to things that aren't written were let's say, oh, you know the Ravens will just match, make them match, then you have them.
That's a competitive advantage for you.
Right.
I hate that my favorite team can popped up in this Atlanta. But but Arthur Blank, he put his name on it saying, you know, the Falcons, they were trying out, you know, backup quarterback quality guys.
Because after Matt Ryan left has been rider like Jesus.
Christ, Marcus Mariota, dude, And and I'm sitting there like you're telling me that I can sign Lamar Jackson, and I got to give up two first round picks for him, Like, dude, pay him sixty million guaranteed every year.
He's worth that much.
Yeah, And Arthur Blank says, well, you know, Lamar Jackson, he's gonna get hurt too much for us to sign him.
So no, no team signs him, No team even talks to him.
So obviously he goes back to the Ravens, doesn't get the full guaranteed contract that the Shaun Watson got And that kind of put an end to it for a little bit until the power of journalism pops up. Poullotory does his his investigation. Here's about an arbitration, hearing about collusion in the NFL, and he gets his hands like on the documents that say that while Lamar Jackson was going through his free agency basically rejection by thirty one teams when he would have been upgrade for like.
Twenty eight of them, twenty nine of them.
Yeah, at the time, I would throw a number one overall rookie quarterback that I just drafted with the first ro overall pick out the fucking window thrown away to get Lamar Jackson, right.
You could be a part of this. Two first round picks were giving you two first round picks plus. Yeah, you know if like at that time, like it may have been like Kyler Murray or something like that.
Yeah, take him like it's taken.
It's unbelievable, Like I cannot he literally, Like the game of football is a fundamentally a different game now, but it was when when Lamar Jackson like started playing.
Because of him, And it's just like he didn't take him.
His influence on the NFL is so strong that we don't really do the black quarterback talking points anymore. Yeah, because the league was like, oh, we can't let that happen again, like when Lamar Jackson felt to thirty two and everyone's talking about doesn't he needs to play a different position, And in year two he wins an MVP.
Yeah, and the.
Year after he signs his deal with the Ravens, he wins his second MVP. Like that kind of cool to fans, Like when you get to see guys like Kim Warre going first overall or even Kyler Murray going first of all and there's no talk about how smart they are as players.
Yeah, Like that's his influence directly.
His success contribute to that, Like he is a Hall of fame. It kind of gives me chills, like think about like what he's accomplished concerning like what has this
fact against him? Yeah, Like he he is such an important figure for this era of football and really just the whole league, like on the field and off the field, like what he means like culturally in society, for like for the chances that black man can get to play in a position that deemed like they were deemed not the place smart enough because he was so good that they said, we can't look that stupid again. This player was available. This player was available in his athletic primes.
Every team could have drafted him. Every single team in the league could have drafted him, and they fucking didn't.
The Ravens pass on him. It's like he was not even the first Ravens draft pick that year. No, they drafted Hayden Hurst twenty five overall before they drafted Lamar Jackson.
Every single team passed on him, and he's one.
He's one of eleven players in the history and NFL to win two MVPs. Every other player that has won two or more MVPs is either a Hall of Famer or actively playing. Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes. That's it, Like this guy is a Hall of Famer already, and.
He should have won a third by the way, like right, he should have won the third. But either way you're identical, like like statistical tie for like a third one.
So yeah, he's first. He's the three time first team up pro. He's going to be a Hall of Famer. And the fact that nobody nobody called him in to say what what would it take? What contract are you looking for? That that's why I was like something something, something is so obviously not right here. The Colts traded two first round picks for a quarterback, like yes, right, precisely precisely, and like.
They're starting a guy who broke his leg and then also New York's achilles like two years later, was like I just.
Do Jalen Ramsey went for two first round picks and he's a great play. But he's a cornerback. You know, it's not even the same thing.
So is the most important position in sports?
Right? A first ballot Hall of famer was on the market in his prime and nobody talked about a contract except the team that owned that, you know, owned like the rights of first refusal and it was so frustrating to see, like my colleagues in the media say, oh, you know the ns were just gonna match. That's so disingenuous. That's so disingenuous because you're you're stripping Lamar like of his agency as a player one like he's better than
every other quarterback that just about any team has. It will be such a severe upgrade.
And you're also just like holding the line for what you're not getting cut of that money?
Why are you lying for these people like that?
But but Pablo, you know, Polo took back, like in his reporting, he found out that a judge agreed with the union that the players were being colluded against, like actively, like there's there's text messages and J. C.
Tredder and Lloyd Howell they hit this from the union.
Bro.
If if you're a union and you have even if you lose.
Arbitration, you have physical note from a judge that says you were included against, take your megaphone to the top of the talls mountain in the world and talk about this. Apply some pressure now, Like this is where I started to get curious, like why why did this happen? Because that part we still don't have enough information all like, like I need to like how much like if there's a kickback going back to like Jasey Treader, Yeah, how.
Much is it? And we do know that Lloyd Howe.
Part of the reason, also part of the reason why he was fired or had to resign was because he along with he along with a former former MLBPA union leader, Tony White, who was recently fired for banging his brother's wife who he hired to work at the mL LBU.
Oh my god.
Yeah, the NFLPA is so lucky that the MLBPA had a shadow.
That's almost as embarrassing to the Strung Club.
Maybe, But Lloyd Howe and Tony White, they were working together as part of.
An eight man group of like union.
Parasites like at the top of the corporate ladder in America to siphon money away from the union into their own personal pockets.
Like this is what's running it.
We know for a fact, Lloyd Antony White, who's the you know, baseball union head what it was because he no longer has his job or family.
Yeah, that did for him, But fucking you brought this upon yourself.
Right, he can't go home for Christ like that like he's done.
They were part of a small group that was sifeing money away from union funds to line their own pockets. Like that is verified. They've been sued for that. So what else is going on here?
Yeah?
What is the incentivization for j. C. Tredder to push someone like that through? And then the backside is Jac's bign as the union president expires, well, Lloyd How's the executive director, and Lloyd makes a new cushy role for JC as like you know, I don't remember what the role was called, but like.
It's like if a strategy or something.
Yes, chief strategy officer, so something that paid him like three million dollars a year, very handsomely punctually. Lloyd was off, you know, blowing money at the Trip club, and JC was kind of running like the actual data day things because he's the one that has a connection to the players, right, And now we've gone through a point where after Gene Upshaw dies, the two executive directors who followed him, as you know, the head of union, Jamar Smith and Lloyd Howe.
Neither of those guys were NFL players, So you can understand how players might feel we've gotten a little bit too far from our roots, Like we don't have guys who are from our background interested in, you know, players and what we go through, which leads back to j. C. Trader, who played for the Packers, played for the Browns, was
at his Peakman, he was a good player. Like I'm not gonna take that away from Like, he was a good starting center on a lot of good offensive lines in Cleveland that didn't win any games, no, but they they blocked the hell out of people, man Like, like like when you go back, you look at some of those lines, like they had Joe Thomas and Alex Snack and Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Patonio, like they have some stars that are out there winning four or five games a year.
So Lloyd Halliver resigns in a mess. JC is still the Chief Tragedy offers of the NFLPA.
I think he resigns eventually from there.
But yes, yes, yes, after what HALLI resigns, j C resigns too. So now we're up to last summer summer twenty twenty five. Yeah, eight months ago, right, it's March twenty seven, eight months ago j C tried to resign from the Chief Tragedy officer role that was cut out for him and says he said in an interview to my friend Jonathan Jones, I have no interest in any leadership roles in then moving forward, he said, I have given this my all. I've given everything I had. I'm
gonna go home and be a family man. I have no interest in this at all. And it seemed like it until this month when j C pounced back up as one of the finalists for the new executive director role that's was previously left by Lloyd Howe.
Now this is where it's murky.
I don't know, like all the processes that go on with like how they decide like who's gonna, you know, do what, like they apparently they have three hundred candidates. It will have down the three. I don't ask some players was going on in the past couple of weeks. They don't know like how like all this was selected. But they are presented with three finalists for the executive director role to vote on j C.
Tredder, who has popped up out of nowhere.
Then the commissioner of the American Athletic Conference, so like Temple and you know those East Coast schools, like like James Madison or whatever, like he's overseeing that.
It's like a college football commissioner.
Well yeah, like like yeah, college football, college football commission Like he's talking to like the president of Rice University about like scheduling games against Toledo or some shit. Ch But see you Jase Trader, the American Conference Commissioner, not even like the ACC, the aa C, right say ass Conference. It used to be the Big East, like they're stolen Big East valor this this guy was running against Jayce Tratder.
And also the third was a former Hollywood union.
Exec who didn't really seem to be that interested in the role in the first place.
So we get down to the election.
Day and we find out the American Conference Commissioner drops out. Oh wow, on election day he dropped right. Okay, so now so now we're dealing with We've had two executive directors back to back, Morris Smith, Lord's howe not football players didn't go well.
Ja C.
Tretder was part of that. But he played football, right, So you see the JAYC. Tratder or this Hollywood guy who doesn't give a crap. I forget his name, but his background wasn't like always a qleaness in terms of you know, actually getting things done, in terms of you know, being pro labor all the time, ultimately as fucked up as it is. That's an easy choice if you're a player. These are my two options. I'm gonna take the guy who at least has played football.
So you had j. C.
Tredder, who's now back as the executive director eight months after he said he had no interest in being any type of union leadership, and.
Like somehow this whole process has like stage manage. He's like back again, right.
But to me, this lynchpin right here is actually most fascinating part of what's happened. And this is where, like if you listen to this podcast, probably won't sound like the conspiracy. If you're not thinking about labor relations in America, it might sound like conspiracy to you.
But j C.
Tredder when he was the president, like his right hand man, I think it was like the vice president was Jayalen Reeves maben Or was very important. He was especially seams linebacker for the lines for a long time. He became the union president after j. C. Tretder left and you know, became like the chief strategy officer. So hesically followed in
j C. Treators' footsteps as the union president. So you know, while all this shapey stuff's going on, Jalen Reeves Mayban is an underrated part as you know, the new union president because Lloyd was executive director.
J C had this new role as the chief strategy officer.
But Jalen Reaves Mayban is sitting there as the president of the union, so obviously he is involved in this somehow, right, Like he is involved.
With like the cover up for the players.
Yeah, you know, not being as aggressive as you should be towards ownership in terms of gave up a seventieth game dog Like that's insane and you've got nothing back for it.
Yeah.
So there's a clock though, in terms of how long you can like be removed from being a player and still be the NFLPA president. And last year Jalen maybe and he had been out of the league, so his clock was almost up. I think it's within yes, two years, two years. So if you fought the league, you're not signing a contract like no one's pursuing you, like you to just get filed as retired even if you're not, even if you haven't come out and say like I'm retired.
Like there's a bunch of players that never said I'm retired, but nobody's signed them, like t Y Hilton.
T Y Hilton just functually retired, like yeah, two weeks ago.
He hasn't played like five years, okay, but he has been placed in a retired file in the NFL. As far as just like labeling things go, and if you are retired, if you are labels retired, you can't be the nflpat president.
Makes good, perfect sense.
So okay, this does not sound crazy probably the people who listen to this podcast. Right, If you are one of thirty two owners, right, and you have this power structure of an organization that you negotiate against, the NFLPA, this power structure is very friendly towards you. You know, they've given you a lot over the past fifteen years since you ripped up the two thousand and six Cbah.
How much would you pay to keep that in place? Right?
Yep?
How much would you pay to keep it in place?
And I haven't seen many people talking about this part of it, but yeah, the Chicago Bears signed Jalen Reeves Maybin this fall. Oh my god, right to a betterment deal. I looked it up. I think he played like forty special team snaps for them this season. But that resets his clock. That resets his clock to be president of the union. So now we get to the end of the season. Yep, Jailerryvaven runs again to be president. I'm not sure anybody ran against him. No one's told us
who the other Cannions were. Yep, if there were other candidates, And now he's the president of the union again after he was almost barred from it. Does any bear Shani remember like any play the Jalen Reeves Maben made no right.
Like I wouldn't.
I watched every game of that team, y'all. I guess they're like two that I missed for those on planes.
But like no, but okay, But but some think about it from disrespect. If you are an owner and you have this power structure that is generating billions capital b billions of dollars back in your direction away from the people that they represent, would it be worth five hundred thousand dollars keep that dealing and a little roster spot at the bottom.
Absolutely.
Now that's the part that I haven't seen people you know, bring up as much because it get stuck on Trader. But Treader's right hand man was almost ineligible to be the president of the NFLPA. Yeah, and he pops up in this little role when it looks like his career is over, like they signed him late in the season
to play special teams. Really, you should bumple some of them in practice squad to go do that, because because you want guys that you've already you know, developed a relationship, guys you've started, you started training working with to get those reps. Some outside guy like coming into play special teams that you know that's it's unnecessary. It's unnecessary.
It's been out of the lead too, Like, yeah, there's.
No reason to do it unless you, as a power structure are interested in him having eligibility to keep funneling you money yep, at expense of the players. And I've really changed my tune like on players not carrying over the past month just from talking to guys, like because I used to cover the Jets and the Giants like for a newspaper here in New York City, Like this is what I've done for the past ten years.
I've met a lot of guys.
They are like purious because you're like, what is this mechanism that is allowing you guys to operate with so much secrecy?
Where you have J. C. Trader, I mean shout.
Out to like the people who ran against him or were there for a minute, but functionally, like practically he ran unopposed for the executive director role. And so you whittled it out from three hundred candidates to three and one of them is J. C. Tratder and the other is the commissioner of like the sixth mostly important college football conference in the country, and then a Hollywood movie like Union exact guy. I mean, that's that's that's functionally unopposed.
And then with Jalen reason Laban, we don't even know if anyone ran against him. So yeah, these guys are just walking back into power yep. And the question that I and players and other drills have what is that mechanism that is operating in the shadows that is allowing this to happen? And how much is it worth? Because now we're coming up on a new CBA negotiation, they're probably going to get an eighteenth game in eighteenth like you you have gone from in twenty years, You've gone
from a spot where you had revenue majority. Even if it wasn't the sixty percent fifty two fifty three, that's better than forty seven. And like the literal death of Gene Upshaw. Yeah, it like killed this union in a way that I don't know if it's recoverable from because you've sent precedent over two cbas likely to be three that you will give up anything for.
What though, yeah, for nothing, but for what, Like.
Like Roger Goodell should never be coming out and saying I'm glad that j. C.
Tretder was named the executives, Like j C. Tredder should be a pain in his past.
No, And it just it's sad to me, like as someone like who like I love the sport so much and to see like what's happening to the union, it's horrible because ultimately, like we're so short sighted that you know what what's happening front me, like right now or today,
it's the only thing that matters. But like there's gonna be real consequences for these guys for decades, and man, like I remember my first year covering the Jets and the Giants for the Daily News up here in New York was twenty nineteen and the Jets had a legend's.
Day like where a bunch of guys that came back and they were on during halftime.
For crappy teams do and you have nothing to talk about then, like you talk about talk about the good old this, right, yeah, but you know these guys that come up and they were hanging out with us in the press box before they went down on the field of the halftime. These are like fifty year old men like on canes and stuff like that, Like like my dad's sixty and he still shoots hoops sometimes like at
the gym. These are like forty five fifty year old men that they can't walk with that assistance that are like like they walk around like and they're forgetting, like, oh what I just turn this corner to do like all the time, like you're talking to them and you have to keep reminding like refresh, like refreshing them on what we were talking about, as if it's like chat GBT, you know, like and it's sad, but when you see like like the material restrictions that these guys have in
their own lives post playing, and these guys like they're not all rich, like they're just normal people. It's it's sad that this union has capitulated to the owners for such a violent job. And sure, like you can say, like you know, no one's telling you to be a football player, but that's the only option a lot of these guys have, like to go be football players and to go put their body on the line just so their family can live.
In comfort for a few years. Oh it's sad.
Yeah, it's like it's the actual poverty draft. It hits way way, way more.
People than the military does, like significantly more. And I think it's something that's really really really badly understroud on the left because like people on the left head not to care about sports stuff. But it's like football is
a structural part of the entire American economy. It's a structural part of our the entire American educational system, like half of the educational system is designed to funnel people into this sport, specifically so these people could make fucking money off of it.
Yes, and that stuff shapes everything.
And I understand like why I left these like they don't care about for us, Like I get it. But if the NFL were to cease existing, tomorrow. That would be like a major collapse within the US economy. Yeah, like I'm I'm not joking. Basically, everything you watch, especially now, is subsidized by some NFL game, right, Like yeah, that's
that's why these companies exist. If you if you go back every single year and you look at the top of one hundred most watched TV shows of the year, ninety seven of them will be NFL games, And you'll have like the two Coms football games and like the Macy's things.
Giving pretty yeah, maybe like maybe the World Series, right, maybe the World Series.
Like right, maybe the Oscars cane like maybe the Oscars versus like Jets Bills like Week twelve that's.
Not flow like throw on a Thursday night like right, But that's.
How big this is.
And I I would implore people to not say, hey, who cares about this? It's important. And also like there's there's there's also just like clear like you look at a game, there's clear racial divides. Yeah, and who has to play this game? Who doesn't have to play this game? There are studies that show that like upwards of eighty percent of black boys who play sports want to be
professional athletes. I mean because that's that's it really like it's that yeah, or I'm gonna go do I don't fucking know, and and and those are really your options. And that's why I say, like I've I've used I've used the NFL to kin kind of figure out my way like through you know how I feel about things, because there's so real desperation from these people to get out. And the problem, like also with the union is like, let's say, like some of these guys come from nothing.
Like the fact that they could figure out a way to get to a bus that woul take them to a school where they could play football is like a major accomplishment in the rown. And the fact that you can go from that to making three hundred thousand dollars in a year at twenty one, that will distort you as well, because now you've made such an extreme jump
so fast, probably gonna be a little bit complacent. You might not be thinking about what's next because and I say this for like a twenty one year old person, you spent the last twenty years of your life fucking fighting like just to get to the next day.
I remember one of the craziest things back in the.
Day, like when Laramie Tompsall was at Ole Miss like back when they got busted. Before the nil stuff going out, there's this text thread between Laramie Tumpson's old line coach and his mom saying like, hey, like can you send money for the light bill this month? Yeah, he's a five star starter on your team that is generating millions of dollars and you could get in trouble for sending his mom like two hundred bucks to keep the lights on.
You know, there's a there's a real like systemic, like obvious extraction of value from these black men, and once it's over, they say, go up, get fucked until you know, we had like the CTE lawsuit where they have to payout billions of dollars. But ultimately you just kind of come in and get discarded. Which is why this union
is so important. And the fact that you can be JC Tretterer use the trust that you have earned through your own blood, sweat and tears of being an NFL player and good enough to stand on your own as like almost a decade long NFL starter. The fact that you would use that and turn around and like just capitulate the owners like that's scum hideous, it's scum, and it's it's it's sad and just everyone here deserves better
except for the people at top. And there needs to be some answers on why are you guys doing this? They're not doing for no reason. There has to be something there. That's the part that we don't know.
One thing I want to kind of go back to for seconds, like how they're able to do this. I don't know the exact mechanisms of how they specifically have been able to do this, because every union is structured
like kind of differently. But this is something that's actually, unfortunately like pretty common in even sort of like progressive unions where yeah, you know, like we've had people on this show a few times who were trying to dislodge this clique that used to run actually I'm not sure if they're still running it, but they used to run the Big Nurses union, like a huge portion of the
country's nurses, and so okay. One of the problems here is that, like you need elections, even if they're well publicized, even if you are trying to get everyone to vote, have really really low turnout. Members unless they're really engaged,
do not pay attention to it. Yeah, and that's not even really engaged in the sense of engaging union activities, because even most of the people who like are really engaged in like I want to go on strike or like I want to I'm gonna show up to this like contract session are voting in the union elections because no one knows it's happening. No one knows who any
of the candidates are. It's no one cares. It's like it's it's an even more extreme version of the problem with like no one voting in regular elections, and so with a really small amount of votes, you can just get you and your faction installed for generations. Right, Like there are admin caucuses in a whole bunch of unions, like and we're talking about like like the Teamsters, and like the union's on that scale. We're like, yeah, there was. It was a huge deal when the Teamsters I finally
ran out their ADMIN caucus. But like, these these people are in power for half a century, super empowered for like generations of these guys are able to stay in these unions, and they're able to do it because it's really really easy to control union elections, especially once you're empowered.
And this is something like I've talked about on this fucking show, Like I've seen union staffers whose job it is to do organizing get fired for telling their own members to read a contract there but they were being asked to vote on because that was considered a threat
to the power base, right. And the problem is is that once you're running the union, you can troll the jobs of all of the staff be these you And one of the things that actually came out in public tourist reporting is that they offered anyone who'd been at the unit for more than seven years a buyout.
And so you know, you can watch them do like they're doing.
A systemic purge of all of this stuff, and then like the moment, Shredder is like leading the search, right, he's able to use his position, like his very specific position in this bureaucracy, like as a president of the union, to like go change the terms of the search so that it's no secret and you can just keep using whatever. Every position you take over gives you a little bit more sort of bureaucratic power that you can use to
rat fuck people. And once they're in, it's like it is possible to dislodge them, like I mean, this is something that happened with the UAW in the last like
that was twenty twenty, twenty twenty three. They got in and they dislodge an admin cost that had been in power and like doing similar shit to this for like decades and decades and decades, and so it is possible for you know, reform caucuses inside the union to organize and drive the leadership out, but it's really hard, and the moment you start doing that, like every single person who's any way affiliated with you will get targeted for retaliation by the union.
And yes, that's that's what has happened. Yeah with j C.
Trader Ye again, Pablo Tori, he released an interview two weeks ago with you know, longtime security officer who was basically one of the people who was like, hey, yeah, what's going on here with DoD j C try to anoid house stuff.
And they fired him for that, Like the.
Even fired the security guy who's been working like yeah, keep been working there since like Dean upsal I was working there. So he he's part of the old guard that is there for like the material like improvement of players lives, like as far as they can take it without you know, dealing with the real bounds of like we got to kind of get this number for the season or our worker base is gonna be harm Like
those guys don't really work there anymore. Yeah, someone like Dominicq fox Worth, he's like he's on TV now, you know, and I know he cares a lot about this, but he's off doing different things.
And I think.
Another thing that that's tough when you look back at like, okay, who is playing football. These are ultimately young men who like they enter this union without any knowledge of like how unions work, Like what are the finances behind any of this? You're geared to take like your high school free time and your college free time, especially now that these colleges are thrown out cash, Like you are honed
to care about football and get football done. And you know, once we get to college, like we'll see what it is. Hopefully you can get your degree and keep it moving. But most of the time, like these guys, they don't know what any of this stuff is. So you have like this very uninformed you know, labor force that's game
turned out two three years at a time. It would probably be pretty easy, honestly to create a blockade of knowledge when the people who could be asking you about this are going to be irrelevant.
If you just hold the lines for a year, you know, it's It's sad.
The other thing about this, right, is that these guys don't have even the basic concentive that even like the UAW and their bost In Shrench had, which is like, if you fuck this up enough, there won't be a union.
It was like these guys, what, there's always going to be something called the NFL Players Association, right because the NFL needs it, Yeah, for cover, which means they don't even have to do the minimal organizing work or like even the minimal like pretending to actually fight for the people who are supposed to be the union because it doesn't matter to them, Like why the fuck would they Why the fuck would they try to onboard new people like into the union and like get their involved with
They're like why are they here? They can just fucking go home and like pash their checks and get whatever the fuck benefits are getting from the league for doing this shit.
Yeah, yeah, I want to know those benefits are. I just want to know.
Yep, me too.
I would love like really because when it gets down to, like how much is your soul worth? Man?
Yeah, Like JC is one of those guys ultimately who has made enough money playing football where he doesn't have to do this, you know, he doesn't have to go around like this. Like it's it's a little baffling in that sense, Like and I know that, Like I guess something that I guess I struggle with.
Sometimes, like why are y'all doing this fuck m shit?
Like why Like it's really like that, like a couple more bucks really means that much to you, Like you're really willing to sell out all these people? But the answer is yes, The answer is yes. Personally, I can't really reconcile that. It's abhorrent. It's terrible, but it's just the truth of the matter is so hopefully they can
figure out a way to kind of dismantle this. But like, man, even the fact that like man, you got like the Bears they signed Jalen Reeves made all of a sudden like his clocks back and now you have the same power structure as you hit another landmark where you're gonna be negotiating for eighteen games. That's a tough thing topple over. Man, that's a tough thing to get past. It's really difficult. Yeah, eat at Arby's. Actually, don't do that. Arby is not good.
No, it's just.
Well, I think that's a decent point to sort of end on unless you have a Yeah, do you have anything else? You want to make sure people know about this whole thing.
I would say, like, if you're not watching football, you should. It's a great game. I I say this as somewhere football has like materially harmed me. Like my back is messed up. I've had two hernia, a dis my back sol seventeen. I turned thirty two this year. It's like half my life. You know, would I do it again?
Fuck? Yeah, I don't know, don't I don't know.
And like this this is where like my my like the people who know me, they like, man, you're wired a little differently, But I think that standard for football players.
Like it's a really complicated relationship.
But like all my best friends are still like football related in some way, whether it's college or journalism now or you know, going back to high school back in the day. Like I still talk to so many people that I played football with, Like I'm watching like I'm the guy watching these like crappy, like Division two games like on a on a Friday.
Night, it's it's awesome.
So like you know, yeah, you should check out Lamar Jackson, Like just go on YouTube, just look up a highlight and then.
It's just wild.
Like you know, when you when you've watched football or really any of these sports, like they are just inescapable. I hate to even say microcosms of like American society because like this is obviously this is this is American society. Like when you just look on the influence that football has, like the economy as a whole, and the way that people who are less fortunate are able to be extracted and run into the ground, yeah, and forgotten even by
the people who are supposed to protect them. I think that's something that we see here just about every arena of American life. So I would just implore some of our our fellow left us you don't be the who cares about sports, because whether you know about it, sports is in interacting and directly impacting your life in this
country every single day. And I think it's important to kind of care about some of the labor practices that are going on, even if you know the labor practices are around Lamar Jackson getting paid you know, sixty million dollars a year over.
Fifty million dollars a year. But it's still it's still important.
Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think there's two there's two points that can make there. One is that like, yeah, I don't know, like it was it was. It was the fucking like transwomanted college sports thing was like one of the two avenues through which like, oh wait, hold on, a bunch of us just don't have fucking rights now. Yeah, And you know, and like and that that kind of like cultural stuff that comes.
Out of places that were just not usually.
Right right, and just to to tackle onto that as we've seen over you know, the past few months, and as many dangered and misrepresented and punchdown communities have said to y'all forever, and I say, this is a person.
If they do it to us, yep, we'll do it to you.
At some points, it's just sad that like we've gotten to the point where you know, you've been fighting and screaming for so long, Like, bro, could you just turn your head this way and just look you see, like, bro, we're the same man. We're all just humans out here trying to make it that thought process is just so violently opposed by the powers that be, and it's just so ingrained in our society, like certain people have to get stepped on that you will let yourself get stepped on.
And now, shit, we got videos.
Of you know, people getting executed in the street in Minneapolis, and what's happened.
Nothing, Just like.
Every other police shooting, you know, of a black person or a transperson getting killed, like nothing happened, and nothing keeps happening, and ultimately we get to a point where that's just the norm. So shit, there's a lot of stuff to fight, but you can even see like how the NFL union has caused followed that same like deterioration. Shit, you know, you go back to the two thousand eleventh CBA. You threw the rookies under the bus, and then what them is do they came and took your money too?
Yeah?
Right, And then when it came down to you know, the twenty twenty CBA, you guys have set such a precedent of us running your pockets that we will set the hard, non negotiable stance of an extra football game and you will capitulate. That's everywhere, man, that that is everywhere in the corporate structure and lafe of America.
So yeah, yeah, sports and is capable. Check out Lamar Jackson on Sundays. It's good stuff.
Yeah, I think, I think.
I think. The one last thing I want to say is that, you know, the Reform Caucus taking over the UAW was something that was seen as impossible. Like it was like literally like every union has the reform Caucus, they normally lose every single time, and then one day they won and like completely changed what the labor movement in America is. And you know the thing the thing about organizing reform caucuses is that I know the people who organize these things like they're just random people.
Yeah, like anyone can do this.
This is this is not something that requires like, you know, an incredibly specialized skill set.
You can just do it.
And as much like actual teenagers do this shit watching people and how tenaciously they could fight and watching them win. That that's how I get out of bed in the morning, is I have I have seen the hope in how how people can fight fights that are just unwinnable, that are so unfathomable that most people don't even think there's a point in fighting it, and then one day they win.
Yeah, and maybe one day well.
Two, I mean, I mean yeah.
And if you just think about the basis of the nfl PA, because now it's an anti trust blocker, right, that's what it is now. But the roots of it, yeah, there were guys trying to get rights for they're trying to get paid for the amount of time that they put into this job. One of the base like complaints is when the league was smaller and you had like kind of other leagues you know that are defunct now or were absorbed by the AFC or the NFC before
it all merged the NFL. One of the basises was the NFL owners would ban you if you played in another league, Like if you spent any time playing another league, they would ban you for five years.
Man, that's your whole career.
Yeah right, yeah.
And I don't know if this made the show, if we're talking about before the show, but one of the things that got the nflp like organized in the fifties was guys, we're doing training camp in preseason games for free. They weren't getting paid for it, but these are just regular men who are just like, fuck it, I'm tired of this. Yeah, and sadly it has been co opted into something that does not represent what it was before.
But you know, this stuff is started by regular as people who are saying, fuck it, I'm tired of this.
We got to make a change.
Yeah, And I think on that note, where can people find your work?
Yeah, you can find me on Blue Sky four verts, you can find me on Yahoo Sports Football three oh one podcast.
Trying to be found a little bit less these days.
That's so reasonable.
Find for the most part. Yeah, you know, it's a little less. I get there's a read.
There's a reason I'm not putting by handling.
Yeah, but I will say this is not necessarily a friendly Blue Sky count I'm not one of those guys who's just gonna let you just pop off.
We do clap back around.
Here, right, We do, in fact, love to see Yeah.
It could happen.
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