Calls media.
Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here today. It's me James and I'm joined by Nevdon jam Gochian. We're here to talk about Azerbaijan, Armenia and the increasingly genocidal rhetoric from Azerbaijan. But I want to start off nevdone.
We're talking about COP twenty twenty four. I guess can you explain I think people will be sort of somewhat familiar with these series of climate conferences, but this one was held in Azerbaijan, Right, and can you explain a little bit about you've specialized in like these greenwashing, sports washing,
various other sort of forms of laundering legitimacy. Right, I'd love for you to start off there and explain how this particular conference was used as a means of laundering legitimacy for what is it like a genocidal project.
COP twenty nine, which was just concluded in Azerbaijan, is the deadly series and vital conversation about climate in the United Nations, which we absolutely need to have. But from
the beginning it was a clown show. And the way Azerbaijan, a Petra dictatorship was able to proture this for themselves was at COP twenty eight, which was held in Dubai, another questionable location for a climate conference, where they had a pavilion, as reported by Political EU, where they had a giant advertisement that said Carabach is the first place to achieve net zero emissions in Azerbaijan, and that was one part of them getting the bid for COP twenty nine.
And the way Zerbaijan was able to achieve net zero emissions in this particular location was they committed a genocide against all the people. If there's no people, there's no climate emissions. And that's probably not even true that it's a net zero emissions because they've engaged in so much of the eradication of any trace of Armenians in this place that Armenians been living in for at least two thousand,
five hundred years. Destruction of buildings, of course is one of the huge source of pollution, and they've they've raised something like four cemeteries, thousands of the monuments, four churches have amolished, entire neighborhoods have been raised historical neighborhood So it's probably not even that zero, but that was their
advertising claim. To get the bid. The top twenty nine was originally supposed to be in Europe, but Russia was vetoing every European bid, and Armenia, who Azerbaijan is currently occupying two hundred and fifteen kilometers of Armenian territory, was blocking Azerbaijan till Azerbaijan offered to give up thirty two Armenian hostages. So we've got a clean side, and then
we've got a gangster hobstage situation, which they did. They gave up thirty two members of the Armenian military, and they made Armenia give up two other Bajigans that were reheld by Armenia because they had gone into Armenia and killed a local security guard trying to steal his car. They probably were lost and they killed this guy and they were trying to escape, but then just one of them had been sent to life imprisonment. But that's what Armenia gave up in exchange.
To allow this climate conference to happen.
That's correct.
So let's stand back from this climate conference right like in this I think it's a really interesting place to start. The site of our genocide is a net zero area and it's a very bleak vision of the sort of greenwashing future. Let's expand a little bit of the history of the conflict between these two countries and also prepp
more broadly. I think people will probably be familiar with the Armenian genocide if they've listened to this show, but of Armenian people as a subject of discrimination and hatred for centuries.
Right, well, you know, I mean, Armenians are one of the ancient people of that area, Greeks, Jews, Persians, They're one of the people that have kind of stuck it out for a long time in that neighborhood. The Turkic people are more recent visitors to the neighborhood. And there's nothing wrong with migration of people, but there's something about populations that have been there for a long time that
really strikes a nerve. If we want to be very mild about it, with the Turkic people, Turkey and Azerbaijan in the sense that they've been engaged in a policy of destroying any remnants of Armenians, including physical people, for least in eighteen eighties. They've been making them second class citizens since they came in in the Ottoman Empire. There's this myth of the a multicultural society, which is interesting
Azerbaijan is also trying to promote. But it really was a second class situation where the minorities in the Ottoman Empire had a lot of extra taxes and duties and persecution than other people in the area.
Yeah, so let's talk about this this area then, specifically this area which would be called depending on who you asked, art Zach or Nagna Krabac, Right, I think probably it did. I don't know if I haven't looked on Wikipedia, but like what would the more commonly used terms for people wanting to look it up right in American English?
But let's explain why there.
Is a conflict in this area and then what has happened since I guess we can go from like the fall of the Soviet Union would be a place to start.
Or I mean we talked about earlier. That's the tough thing about talking to rannions, like where I would start with the sixth century and the fall of the king in Maratu. Okay, But I guess we don't have that much time. So basically, and I do have to put this in there because there's this big Azerbaijani narrative that Armenians are effective people, they're effective presence, and I'll deal with that in a little bit. Yeah, but you know,
it's just been recorded by Greek. I mean, I don't know why I should have to prove our existence, but we do.
Yeah.
So anyway, if record to history that it's where the Armedian alphabet was unvented. These people have been indigenous to the region for thousands of years. They've got a deep connection with the land fill. The Soviet unions fast forward there it had been under the territory of the Azerbaijani SSR, as in a autonomous oblast as they called it. It had been given to the Azerbaijani SSR because of Stalin,
who was the Commissioner of Minorities. Colin has this big project to divide the people, the minorities in the Soviet Union to fight each other, which is ramped up in nineteen sixties when the Soviets start in ing fake history to pit people against each other, which is wild, but Soviet Union is crumbling. The people of Artsak, which is the Armeni indigenous name Nagaro Karaba, is generally acceptable as well. That's that would be the colonial name or the name
that the Azeris called the region. They are fed up with not being able to learn their language because of Azerbaijan. They're fed up with not being able to have any of the rights as Soviet citizens because the father of the current dictator of Azerbaijan was ruining Azerbaijan since nineteen sixty nine, and his policy was to try to get as many Armenians to move out of the region as possible. So they're fed up with this and they're like, okay, enough,
they legally seceed from the Soviet Union. It's allowed in the constitution, which of course infuriates that Azerbaijani SSR. You know. So there's a bunch of conflicts. There's the pogroms that happen against Armenians and cities of Baku and Ungate, and at which point they seceed fully from the Soviet Union, one of the first areas to do so. In nineteen ninety one. They actually left the Soviet Union before Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan with the Soviet Union's troops in Bay there's this bloody mess it's called Operation Ring where they're killing Armenians in the area. There's a war that erupts when everybody seceedes. Armenians in Artsak get the upper hand due to they really cared about it and also probably because of racism within the Soviet Union where they trained Armenians a little bit better than they did Azeris. It's a humiliating defeat
for Azerbaijan. Azerbaijean is pushed back. Armenian sees about nine percent of Azerbaijani territory beyond Artsak, and that was a stasis until twenty twenty.
Yeah really yeah, sort of thirty years of right, but it was always disputed right. This area was as we don't continue to lay claim to the ad Tuk region.
Is that correct?
For some reason, it was never recognized by the UN as being a real country, similar to some other places. Why that is is confusing to me, because they did leave earlier than anybody else. It is an ethnic minority that chose to leave the area, but it was they weren't considered legitimate by the UN. By Azerbaijan, and secondarily, we have this brutal dictatorship that's held together by ethnic hatred. Really, I cannot overstate how terrible the Alif regime is in Azerbaijan.
But you know, Urmeni forces committed at least one war crime that I'm aware of during that time in the place go Kolzoli where they killed one hundred and eighty to six hundred Azari civilians. And they've used this event and I think one other, to really hold their country together in this pit of broath of it think hatred. So not until twenty twenty does that really call last do they become strong as a petro state to take back large portions of the country.
Yeah, talking of taking back, I'm gonna have to take back thirty seconds of everyone's time for an advertising break here, So let's do that and we'll come right back.
All right, we're back.
One thing I think that it might be illustrative to hear is that, like in the first Adzakh War, Turkish I guess it regulars or mercenaries or and what you want to call them, people associated with the gray Wolves fought on the side of Azubijan. Right and keen history understanders wonder that there is some history of anti Armenian sentiment among the gray Wolves and then indeed in Turkey as a country.
So preps.
This is a good point to talk about the international involvement here, because I think it's very misleading to do this. As we're seeing in Syria right now, people want to divide the world into blocks, right with like sort of this sort of Cold War narrative that we have of Russian interests in US interests, And I think this is an excellent example of why that is not necessarily a
great way to perceive the world. So, can you explain the international involvement in artsak and in this ongoing conflict which we'll get to it beginning again in twenty twenty, I think in a second.
In addition to Turkish forces being used in that twenty twenty war, which I guess we'll have to get into a little bit. Yeah, there, Syrian mercenaries were used as well. They were acuted, they were put on the front lines. It's kind of candid fodder. They're given something like one hundred dollars bonus that they beheaded a civilian, a two hundred dollars bonus that they beheaded in Armenian soldier there.
But of course Israel is the primary supplier of Azeri weapons in weaponry on so far to test some of their drones on manned Armenian outposts early on before the war started. It's fair to say that Azerbaijan could not have been so successful without the aid of their ally, Israel. Israel has been deeply involved in Azerbijan for a long time. They use Azerbaijan as a listening post against Iran. Israel stages raids from Azerbaijan on Iran and has to do
with the ethnic minority in Iran. There's a lot of Azari's down there. Israel get something like forty percent of its oil from Azerbaijan. Right after the Palestinian genocide started, Israel awarded two contracts to the state oil company SOCAR in Azerbaijan. It's right adjacent to the Palestinian gas field and the Lebanon oil field to SOCAR to explore. It cannot be overstated how complicit these two groups are with each other. They really really need each other in the region.
In the United States also liked Azerbaijan as well. They see it as a friendly Muslim country bulark against Iran as well.
Yeah, I think they also have some Turkish drones. Is that right the Bajakar y, Yes, absolutely, So let's talk about that twenty twenty war, because that was a war that relied heavily on these drones, right, some major means of destroying Armenian armor and pushing that offensive. So what happened in twenty twenty along this disputed border, Well, you.
Know, it's called mountainous Karaba. It's an area that's great defensively if you're fighting in a pre drone world. Yeah, but you know, as you've discovered your Kurdish friends, the drones are amazingly destructive against people hiding in caves, which is what the Armenian response had been. Armenians had been
a bit lazy. They've been relying on Russian tanks and weaponry, Whereazerbaijan's is buying from Israel, buying from all, you know, many, many, just different sources, which reflects the wealth of Azerbaijan, of course. So in twenty twenty, there's some indication that Alif, the dictator of Azebaijan, had been planning US for a while. He had this playbook called Operation Aszeri Smile twenty twenty.
The troops move in, they encounter more resistance than they thought, and they get most of the Armenian held territory of Nigardo Karaba back. They're stopped at the last minute, probably
by Russian intervention. At this time. The Armenia was a member of the Russian Alliance at that time, which they're leaving just because it's the Russia has failed to live up to its treaty obligations anyway, and it left a kind of a skeletal state of Artak left, which was only supplied by this one road called the Latchin Corridor, that was only one road from Armenia to supply the one hundred and twenty some thousand Armenians who lived in
Artzok left, which brings us to twenty twenty four, twenty three.
Twenty three or yeah.
So yeah, you have this situation where we now have this massive area that's I guess occupied a lot of people. People began leaving at that time right through that latching Corridor, like people didn't feel like they could safely remain there.
I mean, the indigenous people of art Sooc have this profound relationship with the land and the people. I am an icon painter, and I was talking to my priest and he was comparing the people there to the elves and the lord of the ring. You know, they whistle to the birds. You know, they've just been living with the land for a long time. So there was a drade, but it's not as big as you would have fought, just because there's this intense millennia old connection with the
places of Artsock. So what Azerbaijohn did, and this is I think unprecedented, is they had a fake ecological protest. Oh wow, that stopped the Lachin Corridor from supplying food and medicine to the people of Artsac. So they starved those people, They denied the medicine, people had miscarriages as areas were firing at farmers in the field that were trying to collect food. And that went on for nine months.
And what stopped what's oether by John claimed it was a group of ecological protesters who were stopping trucks of food coming into Artsack for any any reason, which you know is enough of the smoke screen for the Western world to really throw up its hands.
Yeah, fascinating. So they literally have a blockade of these protesters.
These protesters are blocked it. There'sn't The Russian troops that were the peace coopers refused to disperse these protesters. They were these old appraching kind of looking people wearing fur coats. They were identified on social media as actually being members of the Zari military, and they had these printed signs that said things like protect nature, stop pollutionsic wildly generic things. Ostensibly, they are against the gold mining operations in Artsk, which
is nuts because a protest is not allowed. And Azerbaijan and THEI there had been an actual protest against a real gold mine that was owned by the daughters of the dictator and they were brutally shut down, you know before, So anybody who was paying any kind of attention to this knew that it was fictive. But I think the EU in particular needing enough of the smoke screen not to support these people. EU. Of course it's getting its gas through Azerbaijan, Yeah, because they've said they don't want
it from Russia. But Russia's just feeding its gas to Azerbaijan, and then Azerbaijean is selling it's Azerbaijani gas to the EU. So they were just trying to do that.
Yeah, if we've just created a pass through and like someone who can live off that rentier income, so let's go to twenty twenty three. Okay, what do we see happening in twenty twenty three.
So the eco protesters they kind of run their course and then there's a lightning operation art sucks attacked positions overrun. There's this massive exodus of people, people who have to leave their houses immediately. The road is blocked. People are dying on this road on the way out, fighting each other, you know, just to leave their houses. In twenty twenty, Azerbaijan has said, sure, you know, our Meetians can come back. We're just taking back a territory. You live here, you
can do that. But when Armenians did, there's this one case of a sixty nine year old farmer who went back to get his possessions. Every troops cut off his head Jesus. They put it on a dead pig, and they put all those images on social media. They raped and tortured anybody that they could find left behind, and they turned it into memes on telegrams, stickers that were you know, something like down like twenty thousand times in the five days that were being monitored for this. So
there was absolutely no question that people could stay behind. Yeah. Zero, Yeah, So there's no Armenians left, and so there's literally been daily ritual that's been going on for a thousand, seven hundred years that doesn't go on anymore, and there's a tragedy in that.
Yeah, yeah, it's been lost.
Like yeah, it's hard to quantify the like you know the meaning of that loss. I think, especially for folks who aren't familiar with people and their culture and like that connection to these things. Talking of quantifying things, I need to look at the amount of time we got here and pivot again to advertisements.
And we're back. So what we see.
In odds, especially in twenty twenty three, is a project of ethnic cleansing, right, genocidal violence, whatever however you wish to phrase it. I mean, ethnic cleansing is not a term that has really like a definition in natural law. Genocide does often very much like in this incidence, I'm using them to mean one and the same thing, the removal of people, either through killing them or forcing them to leave or starving them.
The International Association Genocide Scholars the Lumpkin Institute. Luis Moreno Campo is a founding prosecutor of the ICC. You on Your RESTR. Mendez a special advisor to the second General on genocide prevention. They all call it genocide, so we can call it that, Yeah, we can call it really safe. Yeah, there have.
Been many genocide of products in history. Like what is as Abajan's goal with this? Is it the remove full of Armenian people with the areas such as a repeople can occupy it? Is it access to the resources that are there? Is it settling a historical school?
If you look at a map, there's this idea of pan Turanism. Is that something that's you're familiar with?
Yeah, can you explain that to listen to a not.
Pan Turanism is this Turkish idea of an ancient Turkish state that stretches from the Bosphorus all the way over to Mongolia and there's one little country in the way that is blocking this empire that should exist according to the pan Tyrannism. And this is an old idea, it's a nineteenth century idea. It's blumping in with every Nazi and race junk scientist idea that you have. But that's the idea. And the secondary thing is, you know, again,
Aliaf is raving his people, he's in prison. Every journalist is any scientists, it's it's really on a level with truth Mingistan or what was happening in Syria or North Korea. And he needs ethnic hate to keep his country together. He's made an ethnic hate theme park. It's not called that, but that's what it is against Armenians. And so yeah, so really I see it as a consolidation of power. He needs an enemy, he needs to move forward, which is why he's threatening to invade Armenia proper. Next.
Yeah, And like I think one of the things that happened with the with the conflict in art Zak, I'm just I'm thinking about this, this Panturkic stuff because I see it every single day and their applies to my post on social media. Right. In my case, it's a
reference to my time in Kurdistan and in Rishaba. Disinformation played a massive role in the in the twenty twenty three contract, in the twenty twenty conflict too, right, And I think people who are hearing about this for the first time are a massive risk for finding that some of that differentormation.
Right.
They hear about this driving to work today on our podcast and they go to google it. There's a lot of crap out there, right, So, like, can we address that the role that it's played and continues to play.
The load of crap, or the pan Turanism or both.
Well, the pan Turanism generates a lot of crap, right, Like I'm convinced that some of the accounts in my replies are not real human beings.
Oh yeah, that's been a well established phenomenon. The number of bots that as of by genre to a lesser except Turkey, because I think Turkey's more secure in its genocidal aspect, whereas and it's really really going for it, you know. So not only the bots in the replies which has come up, no matter what you put in keyword, there's going to be lots of mentions on your social media, not to mention there's a pretty vicious campaign out there to docks. Anybody who talks about this is that's happened
to me before and it's not pretty. But also there's this thing called mirror propaganda. I don't know if you've
heard of that. But the Assaris will take something that Armenians say like oh, our Armenians should go be able to have a right to return, so they throub this huge cloud of They'll take actual documents that have been produced by I don't know, freedom House, right, yeah, and then they'll copy the entire doc document and format things the right of Azaris to return to Western Azerbaijan, which is their new concept, and Western Ivverdjan is the country
of Armenia. So they have these maps where they renamed all the towns of Armenia with Assari names. They claim Armenians only came to the region in eighteen twenty eight with the Russians, that they are fake people. Another tragedy of Artsak is they're taking these monasteries and places, not only destroying them but chiseling off ancient inscriptions to prove
that Armenians didn't exist there. They've already done this in this other place called Natchivan, which is they call it the largest cultural genocide of the twenty first century, where they destroyed thousands of medieval monuments and stones with bull josers and sledgehammers. So they're just wiping them out, any record of our medium anything in their claiming Armenia it
is really should be called Western Azerbaijan. And anytime Armenians talk about arts that going back, they're like, well, we they've made cookbooks, they've got a television show How Western as the Baisan, and it's just it's what you're laughing, and I laugh too, but it's it's so ugly, so scary, but it's funny too.
Yeah, what if these things are intil it's your grandma or have you been beheaded? Like yes, it does seem it does seem obscene, and it's so obscene that it's funny. Right, But like this is a concerted state project, right that, like it's easy to get caught up in. And it's easy to get caught in this disinformation machine, not just from like like like a bot in your replies, but from news like you say, news outlets or a doctored reports or things that look very convincing.
Search results that go to the top. I mean, you know, on this course started with the writing and genocide which ors Turkey and Azebaijan and Pakistan for some reason, say it was fake. If you search for that, the top results are gonna be our means are lying they committed to genocide with us, And then they'll throw these numbers like oh yeah, Armenian's killed three million Turks, Like what are you talking about? These? It's just like like words have meaning, you.
Know, but increasingly less and less, less and less.
You know, there's that great Hannah Art line about constant lying is not aimed at making people believe a lie, but ensuring that no one believes anything anymore, and that's what they want. We're an obscure part of the world. This will say a bunch of shit and people throw up their hands and walk away.
Yeah, oh it's too complicated, and so they.
Too complicated, right, yeah, Or you know, they'll say, oh, it's ancient hatreds, and like that's bullshit. It's not ancient hatreds. It's a very modern thing. These are real people who have real understand all issues, you know, like in Gaza, it's like it's very clear, Yeah, what's going on?
Yeah yeah.
The different areas that it has received a lot more coverage and long body attention.
So where does this leave us now?
Right, as ab Giant has just hosted this conference, and like it's important to recognize that this conference is it's a project of kind of global liberalism, right to the cop conference, and like it conveys legitimacy, and in this case, it's a means of kind of laundering legitimacy. Right for this Carabuck project in their case right through through the lens of protecting the planet.
Where do they go from there?
Well, So what makes the dictatorship as a down a little bit different from these other dictatorships I mentioned is I think they care about what people think a little bit. They bring in f one racing, the Eurovision. They really do these projects because they want to be seen as a legitimate state, whereas I think those others like North Korea, they don't do that, like, no one's gonna like us no matter what we do. They want to play on
the international stage. So that's one aspect. Another aspect, it legitimizes themselves to their internal critics. People as their Bajana smart they know what's going on, but they say, oh, the world is coming to us. The world accepts us. They must, you know, accept the brutal dictatorship that's cracking down anybody's gay, lesbian, anything, you know. Orture is a feature of this regime. So it legitimizes themselves internally, and what they fear I guess is people were getting angry
that they invade Armenia. So it's just I think it's that chene. Now we could argue whether that was effective because COP twenty nine was an absolute train wreck for them. But I'm not sure that matters to them right, matters for the environment.
Yeah, I think probably these COP conferences are not going to be the way we solve our our issues with climate change. But that's another conversation going forward, Like what is the status of odds? What can those people, those people who were able to leave, Like what does the future hold for them? Are they sort of refugees in media?
Now? There are refugees in are Armenia. Amenia is a poor state, doesn't have the oil reserves. The Azerbaijan just announced that they're increased their military budget by twenty percent. Jesus, it was already incredibly high. Last time I got statistics, the flights from of Dah, which is the Israeli military insulation for flying equipment to Azerbaijan, has ramped up. It's higher than it was in twenty twenty before their invasion.
It's not a part for twenty twenty three. So that's a pretty clear sign that they're getting all their equipment from Israel. They stopped before copp and so I haven't been able to get data on that since then. Azerbaijan just issued a declaration that parents cannot visit their children in the military, and that's a bad, bad sign. So the question is not if it's win, it is winter. I mean, he has a lot of mountains. Those are pretty good defend. People are figured out. Sure, you've talked
to your friends of our Java. They figured out drones a little bit, how to deal with them better. I mean he has reached out to France, who's been helping them a little bit. Azerbaijan says, there's some conditions for peace that are insane, you know, like change your constitution is one. Get rid of all EU observers is another. Don't get any new weapons, and then give us the what's called this Zeger Corridor, which is like this road that goes to their exclave Nacheban to the to the
west there, and it's just like you can't stay. No country is going to do that. Oh and they've got another claim, which is they say allow the UNESCO to visit Armenia to check out erased Azerbaijani sites, which is just a mirror propacanda insanity because unesca's already in our media and Armenia asked that of UNESCO for Azerbaijan.
But yeah, of course they just copy that right and say, well, why do you do it?
Yeah, right, which you know is not a real thing, but anyway, so those are a conditions piece. So it seems probable that Azerbaijan will invade, possibly in spring because the snow will melt it away. Possibly now, because Alia seems like he's very angry that the world kind of paid attention to Cop twenty nine is figuring out that he's a dick, and he's ramped up in arrest in his own country. He does arrest an entire television station of people that were you can't it's it's one of
the least press free countries on Earth. But I guess people are doing something before or that, and they'll either take the southern half of Armenia or they'll take all of it, because they say Yerevan, the capital of Armenians,
is historically part of Azerbaijan. So that's the state where we're at there, And I really think any other perspectives are wishful thinking, and I'm Sartaly so grim about that, but it's I think it's a very real possibility that there's Armenian genocide that it's killed literally, you know, caluntable millions of Armenians since the eighteen nineties and ramped up through nineteen fifteen through nineteen twenty three, and then Society a little bit is ongoing and their project will be
completed in the next year.
Yeah, that's pretty bleak.
How can people they want to be in solid director if they want to support I think this is something that doesn't get reported on right in the US, even though they just want to learn more. How can they do that? Where can they go?
There's a good side has learned for art SoC that's a good site. There's a bunch of Armenian web sites that people can go to. May I post some some links on the show notes? Would that be? That'd be good?
Yeah, well absolutely Betters in the show notes.
Yeah, yeah, I would be very happy to do that if people want to donate things. But it's similar to to Gaza or other places, like what what does awareness do? I guess it could slow things down. Yeah, but really we just need state actors to respond to this. Our meetings get very cynically used in France and in the United States by right wing politicians who claim that they're protecting Christians, but I don't think that's something that will actually happen.
Yeah, I mean people did the same thing for a sad right that he protected Christians in Syria while he yeah, murdered to gas his own people.
Exactly.
That's a best of cynical thing and a worst justicy.
I mean, what have you seen that's effective in terms of world action or these things with Kurds or other people?
I mean, look when we talk about how the Kurds have defended themselves from get a state project to eliminate them, right in some areas, they haven't been able to write, and when they have it's through their own armed initiative for the most part, right, they were very fortunate to have the support of the United States. But that was
only ever in the battle against Isis. It wasn't when genocidal violence, right, this genocidal project in a free and where we're seeing it right now, in power of fact, the US didn't stand beside them there, and it's not in its nature too. And I think this is a really difficult situation that we find ourselves in all around
the world right now. Right, we've seen this in Africa too, right, it's not really in the nature of the United States, not in this century, to intervene simply for human rights reasons, simply because because genocide is wrong.
We had a person that Sam had the power, who wrote a book on how genocide is wrong and we should intervene. And then what happens when she's in power with Obama and Biden.
We draw red lines and then less sad walk over them, like it happens all over the world. And I think, yeah, we're probably in a post hedge and monic era, but that doesn't mean that people deserve to die because we're in a post hedgemonic era.
I know.
Look, if I look at the other genocide, which I've spent more time with than most genocides, the weird thing to say, it's the genocide in Meammar of the Rahine of people. They are still facing genocidal violence now, even from anti hunter groups. But I also see Muslim people
in the current National Liberation Army. I see them fighting with the k and d F And the way that those people liberated themselves was like from the bottom up, and I think that, like I find some home, and what's happening in Kurdistan and what's happening in me, amma, And I don't see very much from the community of states, so much of the thing that even fucking exists. I don't really believe that states have a conscience. And yes, I don't think it's in their nature to care about people,
because people are inherently valuable. But I do think people do, and I do think it is in the nature of people to care. So I guess we have to continue to hope.
And there has been some positive statements by your Java regarding our Medians, and there's a lot of solidarity there, which it was great. You know, Kurt's helped commit the first Armenian genocide and they've apologized, and so I'm seeing a little glimmers of hope in terms of the solidarity of people who see what's right and wrong who aren't state actors. That's absolutely right.
Yeah, one of the things people, there's another thing that will be deployed very often. The Kurds are responsible for the Armenian genocide. Court if people were part of the Armenian genocide, and they will acknowledge that, and they've tried to make amends for it.
Yes, exactly right, and that's all.
Yeah, like we're here now, we're not is no to our history, but we have to acknowledge it so that we can move from it.
Thank you for sharing all of that.
Yes, thank you.
Is there anything else that we've failed to address? You want to get in quickly before we I mean, yes, thousands of years of stuff.
But you know, visit or Armenia. It's still called one of the safest places on earth. Is it's been rated safer than Japan. It's a beautiful place. It's a struggling democracy, but it's the only democracy in the area. Try to pay attention to the news, you know, is Hackeys. It seems right, your senator, you know, like I just feel wrong saying that, But what else can we do? Right? If you're in Britain, the UK is an incredibly agregious
supporter of Azerbaijan through British petroleum. Really, you people probably can have the biggest effect because the UK is the biggest enabler of those dirt bags. And thank you for the I really appreciate it. And I don't feel like I've done justice to three thousand, five hundred years of history, but thank you so much.
No, I think it's great. Is there any way people can follow you online if they'd like to.
Oh, absolutely not. I'm tired of getting docs.
Excellent, Yes, pretty fit.
You know. That's why I pin icons. This is because it's it's anonymous, you know.
Yeah, very offline.
Yeah, but thank you so much, great, thank you.
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts can now find sources for it Could Happen Here, listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.