Evolution with Andrew

longer a scene. You got to sainted. So okay, if I understand Catholicism, right, that means you undid someone else's three miracles. I know nothing about Catholicism. Okay, well, pretty sure. We have the Protestants Protestant ground. My knowledge of Catholicism is that to be a saint, you have to do a couple of miracles, but the last one is always something to do with being dead, Like they just decide that whatever you do when you're a corpse, it's like, oh,

it's a miracle. Oh Catholicism, Andrew, what are we talking about today? Um? Today we're gonna be talking about something that I would see more traditional Catholics we have some disagreements with Christians. We have some disagreements with them. That is, I mean, that is our entire audience, is that this this podcast is completely listened to by the Pope's Swiss guards Vaticans. Yeah, we we have deep penetration in the Vatican. That's an interesting choice of woods considering the end of

Pride month. But yeah, alright, so, um yeah, what are we talking about. We'll be talking about human evolution, particularly favorite kind of seems to human corporation. Okay, the origins of human corporation. O. Yeah, I love this ship. I think that, you know, people tend to emphasize human competition a lot um because capitalism wants us to believe that we have these competitive you know, dog eat dog. I don't know where that term came from, By the way,

I've always been curious about that. Um. As far as I know, dogs don't eat each other. Um. But it's interesting phase and I think it's kind of apt here. Um. This is this idea that that that we're just competing all the time, that we're fighting is it's a survival of the fittest, and only the strong survive. You know,

when people talk, you know, casually about prehistoric times. Is this very it represents the stories that we've been told about it, and as a result, it tends to be very you know, competitive, highly patriarchal, highly violent, just constant into put some violence. I mean that was the justification used to you know, reinforce the state rights like or the state of nature's everybody against themselves. And so as a result, you know, a state had to be introduced.

We treated some of our freedoms for the safety that the state is supposed to provide. But as far back as Brudon and really even further, because let's be real, it's a very European concept. That's something that can be protected towards all human societies and all human philosophies. UM. But Prudon was one of the first white guys, I guess, in his time period and in his fields, really challenge that notion with you know, mutually a fact of evolution.

Of course, the studies and stuff that he would have done, um, the knowledge that he would have shared upon you know, known unstudied by people before him, but he was one of the first really bring all that knowledge together into one place. UM. Years later, UM an anthropologist and armatologists was born. I mean, she wasn't born that, but she became that later in life. In ninety six, that would

be Sarah Blaff for Hordy. And so she made many major contributions revolutionary psychology and sociology biology, especially pioneering our modern understanding of the evolutionary basis of female behavior in

both non human and human primates. In two thousand two, she was recognized as one of the fifth most Important Women in Science, and in fourteen, Mothers and Others, together with her earlier work, earned plready the National Academies Award for Scientific Reviewing in honor of her insightful and visionary synthesis of a broad range of data and concepts from across the social and biological sciences to illuminate the importance of biosocial processes among mothers, in funds, and other social

actors informing the evolutionary crucival of human societies. In essence, she got an award because she recognized the fact that the relationship between mother and child and you know how humans raise their children, Um, it's vital in our evolution and becoming human. Yeah, I mean that's um, yeah, that's fascinating.

I didn't know any of that. Yeah, I mean humans, they we we do recognize now I'm starting to recognize more and more parati parmatologists at least that um humans, I let other great apes rather, they do care, they shay, and they empathize a lot more than we may have originally thought. But humans still when at you know, the caring competition, I think we because of even something like all official anatomy um and how we structure society use is probably one of the more pro social of you know,

the other great apes. Yeah, it's interesting whenever I because I've I've read stuff about like empathy and apes, but it's always in the context of the ones that we

taught sign language to. The one I'm remember in particularly is and I'm I'm spacing on the name that the scientists gave her, but one of the apes, yeah, Cocoa, when her reaction to like nine eleven um because it was apparently like on the TV or some ship wouldn't happened, but like I never here emphasized the same degree um or you know, maybe I just have not sought it out, but it's certainly kind of less uh less discussed as like evidence of empathy within um within like the societies

that they built, I guess like would be the term for them, the little their communities, I don't know, whatever you wanna call them. Yeah, yeah, I was interesting as well, I mean, was a guerrilla and regarding her sign language is actually interesting video sc talking about how you know

about sign language. Then we assume, but Couco is a gorilla and humans are well closely related to two groups who was being bunobos and chimpanzees, And we tend to look at chimpanzees, which tends to be more you know, violent, and people use them as an example for this how humans naturally are despite the fact that you know, we have millions of years evolution diverging from chimpanzees. You know, the last common ancestor was like six or seven million

years ago. Yeah that that's a bit just like yeah, like I got five or six years and I consider us pretty like pretty far apart. Yeah yeah, I mean, and the on top of that, like there was enough time for some serious dip regences. It's not happening, you know, like the fact that humans, you know, walk up right and chimpanzee is they still have you know that four legged Gate. It's actually something that I learned recently, if all them two separate occasions, that being that particular kind

of knuckle walk. Um. Yeah, I just want that kind of fascinating kind of besides the point. Um, but yeah, I mean, we we tend to look at chimpanzee as our closest example, but nobles which are a lot more social, I would say, a lot more cooperative and less violent, and chimpanzees actually share a lot of you know, similarities in terms of you all behavior, and they're also one of the few animal species that have been you know, recognized as having sex for pleasure and not just procreation.

So good for them. When we talk about evolution, a lot of it has been shaped by Darwin, even though science is not about figures and big figures and their big ideas, it's about the ideas themselves. Um. But still, seeing as Darwin was the one who really introduced, no, the idea of competition, the idea of of all that in evolution, those sorts of notions which came really out

of his time and industrializing competitive wood. Um, it really overstates the rule of competition as of driving force and evolution, when in reality cooperation was far more potent force when it comes to like pro social human tendencies, UM, you know, doing things to benefit others. That's what pro social is. Dr Hardie really comes down on the cooperation side of things in her book Mothers and Others especially, brings together all this evidence that we are basically descendants of a

place to see in species of cooperative breeders. Corporative breeding is a practice amongst some animal species. UM. Other mammals do it, but I think we are one of the few. We were were the only create a to do it. And there are other primates to do it, or the monkeys to do it, but none closely related to us. Cooperative breeding is basically practice or the reproductive strategy UM where alla parental care is provided to the offspring of you know, the children of sitting parents in the group.

All parental care is basically the practice of UM. It's basically non direct parents care care provided by individuals other than the parents. And so by having that networking place, by having the process of our parenting in place, that's how we were able to be so successful as a species and distribution you know, um, you know, establishing ourselves in all these different environments because humans spread barely rapidly

around the globe and we used to. We've established ourselves and created cultures and all sorts of unique environments, and honestly, we are the most successful out of the primates, not regard so kudus to us um. And that is because of corporative breeding. Did you just woo Probert? Yeah, of course, yes, like we have to, we have to racial the rest of the primates, you know, very very based a us. We literally reassoed them. Literally, we're re feeling everything on

this goddamn planet except for chickens. And no, except for chickens. Corn is definitely ratioed us. Yeah, for sure. For sure cows too. Man, Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true. How is chickens? And there's there's one for sure. We have a lot of that. Yeah. But I mean there's many different species of goods and there's only one species a few months. Yeah, you know. I mean, what's the population of dogs? Oh? It's actually every time I look, it's

less than you'd expect. What nine million? Yes, that's ridiculous, less than I have expected. I want more. Give me more dogs millions like rookie numbers. Like I was going to expect like at least a couple of billion just based on but no, just nine. Yeah. Every time I look it up, I recall being like, oh, there's not as many dogs as I thought there were. I guess they would in corporative Fredasu're not and only four dred

million cats. Those are rookie numbers. Cats. Come on, cats, But it's actually probably I mean, party for the best. I do a lot of damage, my dad always says. My dad always says that we need more dogs in the world to fix the fun up humans. Yeah, I mean I feel a lot of pressure to put on dogs. That's completely fair. I feel like that's really our job to fix fucked up humans. Yeah, no, no, no, well, I mean dogs for that. I mean cats and dogs are pulling a lot of weights as it is. You

know they are. What are ferrets doing? Yeah? Fish doing? What are ferrets? Question? Andrew ferrets? Fucking ferrets? Yeah, and like fucking goldfish right, what are you guys? What do you what a goldfish? What have they been doing lately? Motherfucker's like, get off your asses and stop us from killing people. Goldfish, stop the war in Ukraine? Goldfish, Come on, I mean to get to cut gold fish some slack. They're busy dying because people would want to take care

of them. Yeah, yeah, they're like all of the people treat them like house plants. I didn't think we would have Andrew being a goldfish to apologist on this podcast, but correctly if I'm wrong, But I don't think cool Bishop committed any like wool crimes or anything in my rights to defend them. They haven't stopped any war crimes either. Plus, I mean, this is my police snell kill talk, and I've I've you know, I've I've neglected my fair shaff Yeah,

you know, speaking of cross species cooperation. When I was younger and living in Texas, there was this one day where like we're out on this in our like fucking backyard area and we see walking through the alley behind our houses this massive turtle probably three pounds like like easily like three or four feet uh in in circumference on his shelf, just like an enormous animal, just like strolling around the neighborhood, not a species that you that you see in Texas wild. So we like kind of

try to corral him. We can't lift him, he's massive, but we like corral him into the into our yard area and given some cucumbers, and eventually his person comes around and the guy explains that like, yeah, when teenage mut ninja turtles came out, a lot of people bought a bunch of different kinds of turtles, thinking they were

good pets. But they didn't realize that there's a lot of the turtles that get sold like never stopped growing, Like if you keep them alive, they just keep getting bigger, and so he like and they smell about only if they're time. He had adopted this turtle and it lived in his yard and he said like, yeah, he's really strong, Like I have a good fence, but every two or

three years he'll just walk through it. Like most of the time he chooses to stay in the yard, but every couple of years he was, I'm just gonna go on a walk and and he's like yeah, he just like breaks through the fence. It takes him about a second, like if he wants to do it. That's like, I don't know if you've seen Baki, have you seen Backy? No? Is this is this me um and no, this is

not my my web coming out story. I have not read if you would much um in that recod, but I started backy recently and the foost at apisode, they established that all these people are coming to Tokyo, right, but like since kind of fighting competition, and the way that they established those people as are dangerous is that these are all like criminals and like death through and so like the in the process of being put to death, like one person is, you know, being injected, only one

persons being electrocutes, psons being hung, and they all managed to break free after they die and like break off the prison easily. This one guy, he was imprisoned underwater. He breaks out of the underwater prison and swims several miles up to the surface and then swims all the way to Tokyo. And it's like for some reason, not too it will break it out of his inclusion or whenever he chooses. Just reminded me of like they're trying

to establish his power levels. You No, he's he's too powerful to be contained, um, And he's probably still alive because they live forever um, which is again why they're bad pets. Yeah, because what did you do about slavery? Yeah yeah, yeah, well that he may not have been around for slavery. But what did you do? What are you going to do the next time there's slavery turtle? You know, are you going to stop it? I don't think so. You're a turtle, may mean next time? Is

this something you should be telling me? What is attention to the Supreme Court? It's not. Well in the future, that's sure, that's sure. What leave the turtles out of this? Well, if they stop the Supreme Court, I will stop shooting on the turtle. Is you're just doing that meme from where people were like I gave up my plastic straws for the turtles. Where are they now? That was a thing? Yeah, it was bad. I don't remember that. It's like, come on, well,

I will see that. I mean, at least what corporative bredos and I think our our tendency of propertive breeding tendency probably has something to do with the fact that we adopt other species as pets and as members of our family, because you don't really see other animals doing that. No, you know, um, I think there's there's some kind of like fish or crustation or something that that keeps another species,

like as live stock. Yeah, there's a couple of species to do versions of that for sure, right, But I mean we love our dogs and our cats, our ferrets and our snakes and our tarantulas and our ferrets question moods. Yeah, people are trying to like domesticate foxes. We could love them too. You know. It's the people. There are people who who keep big cats that people who keep like ms,

people who keep all kinds. We just you know, it's like we've got to catch them all, you know, like we just want to take all these creatures and we wanted to love them. I don't know that says about us other than the fact that our cooperative nature extends beyond the boundaries of you know, us as a species. We hrated very high levels of mutual tolerance of perspective taken and other pro social impulses from ancestors who use our parental care and provision of the young two survive.

I mean, we didn't invent complex corporation. Our pre human ancestors did, but we elaborated upon it. Yeah, it's um.

It's always interesting to me to think about that. I think back up to when of the first time I ever went to a war zone was Ukraine and it was this we were in this little town called of Dificult that was getting shelled by the Russians, and there was this big the way they do the heating over there, they have these events going underneath, the tubes going underneath all the houses to supply them with like gas and stuff.

And there's this this big was this big central like kind of box thing and one there's a few of them in the town and stuff that like is the I don't know, I guess it's like the like nexus of a bunch of different houses all whatever heating systems, so it's warm, and the people they're like when the war started, a bunch of people fled and they left pets behind, you know, sometimes they didn't really have a

choice because it's war. Um. So there were all these cats and dogs, and soon all these breeding cats and dogs, all these kittens and puppies, and people who lived there had like turned that little junction box for the heating system into this like massive kind of open air cat and dog sanctuary. So like there were all of these like dozens and dozens of puppies and kittens just like

living together in this big heating box. Um in the middle of this like being taken care of by all these local ladies who would scrounge up food every morning and make sure that they were all taken care of. UM. And it was interesting because you could see all these like cats and dogs living together and all of these people coming together to take care of animals they didn't know. UM. At the same time, like all of the people were doing their level best to murder the folks like a

mile and a half away and vice versa. UM. So we contain multitudes of human beings, definitely, I mean that that's possible too. Rite like the fact that we are soon eager to like share another emotional states, you know, to empathize and do weither we assume eager to involve ourselves and and give and share with those who are unrelated to us. I mean, there are a lot of species that do not realise the young at all, um.

And then there was the do and try to kill other people's young, and then there was that tjest to care of their own young. But you know, we even in this like super individual realistic capitalists will we still find ways to look out for each other. And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, of course, you know, cooperative reading doesn't mean that there's like constant like part either dynast or like cooperation and yeah, all the time it's still

can't be competition, which you know all these different things. Yeah, but behaviorally, anatomically, and emotionally modern humans cooperative breeders. And the crazy part is those you know, three um traits you know, behavior and not to be in an emotion,

those illustrats not evolved simultaneously. So for example, or physical features like our eyes and the fact that our eyes are are able to you know, we can see the whites and our eyes and that way we can put ourselves in the people's perspectives and that kind of thing. We could see the emotions clearly, you know, the fact that we are we were prone to sharing our smiles, and the fact that, um, you know, our vocal courts have such range, would be able to communicate to many

different things. Um. While these are hallmarks of the fact that you know, even before our super big brains developed, we were ready getting these treats that would have helped us in cooperation. But I wanted a lot of time though, because you know a lot of the shapes we developed before language. Um, it's like what was the first word of humanity. You know, what was the first sentence, what was the first thing like we said, and how did

other people react when the person said it. I can imagine that, you know, like agriculture, something that's developed independently, UM,

on multiple different occasions in different places. But I still wonder, like what those Foost conversations might have been A vote, Yeah, I mean I think a lot of them probably would have been arguments with other people who didn't want us to do words, UM, who were ultimately right, you know, if if only yeah, yeah, I don't know, it's interesting, like I think it probably like we we just did a couple of episodes about the history of of of gynecology UM, and one of the things that we talked

about at the start was like the prehistory of medicine, which which likely began in an organized way UM by like likely the first people practicing medicine in any way. We're pregnant women and women who had been pregnant trying

to help each other survive pregnancy, right, UM. And I wouldn't be surprised if that, I mean, food gathering is obviously the other one, but I wouldn't be surprised if like language started as a way to try and like communicate and better survive making babies because it's it's like super dangerous and also entirely necessary, um and and something that kind of particularly benefits from communication. So I don't know, I wouldn't be shocked if that was like the first

thing we talked about, so to speak. Mm hm, that makes sense. But I'm also thinking as well, and it just occurred to me it's pretty possible that like that the first language was not spoken language. I feel like it may have been like a form of sign language, you know, because you know, we have these hands, and people tend to talk with their hands, so yeah, oh yes, I think the hypothesis is that, you know, we use

the hands to communicate things before we started speaking. I mean, the fact that we were able to teach apes, you know, other apes to use sign language, I think that's a

good sign that we can lead to communicate with that face. Yeah, I mean, it's also you know, probably how our communication with dogs started, because that's one of the things that makes them special is they're pretty much alone in animals and that they like and kind of instinctively grow up understanding that when we gesture at them, it means stuff like if you point, dogs will look where you're pointing a lot of the time rather than at you, which is like a rare trait in animals. So yeah, I

think you're probably right on the money there. Huh. I didn't even think about that. That's true. That's true. And of course that makes it fun because you could always fake them out and throw something stupid. Yeah. Yeah, Anderson doesn't fall for that ship, so I love she does not fall for that. I can't fake her. I can't fake her out. That's probably why she's the woman of

the host. I'm you're all wrong pretending to throw stuff at a dog and then it goes running and then it realizes that you faked it, Like that's the best. I can't relate because if I try to do that, she looks at me like a good try. Uh huh, okay, Sophie. Where you need to go is corgy Con in San Francisco. One of these years will they let Anderson? And even though she's only she does she's only party. There's nothing, there's nothing but acceptance of corgy Con, acceptance and hundreds

of Corgis frolicking in the surf. It rules. She'll try to hurt them all. Yeah, they are all trying to hurt all of them. I'm into it. They are all very excited and don't know what to do with each other. It moves so as the book progresses, party spend some time talking about how we are similar to and different from other greed Eps's feeling about how we use eye contact and smiles to and even from a young age. Um, you know, we we've be tend to hear about it.

But the fact that babies cries are so attuned towards attention and capturing the attention of people, Um, these are all in like basterds. Yeah, yeah, I mean I was. I was a screamer. Apparently I used to real real ball, ball and ball and ball. In fact, one story I was told was that the neighbor called and was like something happening to Andrew, and my parents were like, nah, he's just grant. There's like three o'clock in the morning. But I mean, look at me now, I'm balling for justice,

that's right. Yeah. One interesting treat that you know, humans have is all willingness to like share our babies with others, other grade apes. You know, those mothers, they tend to have like constant contact and care with their children, you know, like they don't let others touch their children at tall, probably because like other mothers tend to want to kill their kids or of course harm to their kids, tend

to be very protective of them. Whereas you know, as our parents, we are you know, full of fledged cooperative readers. You know, we have not only shared our young with others, but our pear intervals have been been recorded breastfeeding the young of others, you know, and and masticating and passing like hard to digest foods to infunts. I'm mixing up my terms a bit in terms of you know, what what is a primate and what isn't ape versus what

is you know, just whatever. But mamosetts and tamarins which are colored stry kids to litricids collect kids. They are also corporative breeders and they're very fast breeders as well, rapid rapid breeders. Um, so you know, good for them. It's also typical of our species. We tend to be very fast breeders, and that's why we really shoot all the other great tapes. What I find interesting as well, is that we be able to breed so rapidly despite the fact that our um do you remember um the

word for like carrying a child. I'm just black and right now breggors. No, no, no, I think you're you're thinking of the incubation period. Is that what we're trying to think of. Yeah, but that's such a that that feels like a very the humanizing way of witness. Yeah, I'll just say that carrying a baby, you know, and the costs because on you know, woman's body, on humans body, Um, it is like whole thing. It's a whole thing. Yeah.

I mean if a people of having so many in one lifetime despite the cost necessary to raise each I mean other animals they have like meets and seasons and you know, they have set amounts of children they could have in their lifetime. But no, mm hm, you know we could just I mean, they're their stories of women who have had like dozens of kids, which is you know, unfortunate circumstances because you know, in those cases it tends

to be um, not necessarily willing. But the fact that we are capable of having many kids is lends towards the importance of having support systems in place because other animals don't tend to have more children they can care for if that is you know, they care for children. A lot of them just eat their kids if they

can't care for them exactly. Can't do that once it's you know, makes sense, Yeah, whereas we kind of evolved to have support systems in placement speaking of eating babies, kind of the kind of is a dark side to that, um because even though we tend to have you know, these children and stuff, and we tend to supposed to how these support networks to care for them, the practice of infanticide is actually something that has a long long history UM in human practice, where if a mother determines

that they're not able to raise their child, they don't have the support systems in place to care for that child. Different practices would typically be used to you know, deal with that child. And that's of course what makes anti abortion stances um so inhumane, you know, because Yeah, the whole reason we that abortion is so um important is because it protects the you know, the autonomy and the agency of you know, people who can carry children. And yet in this will it continues to atomize us and

individualize us and separate us um. You know, shipping some people of their support network so we can in our support networks. It's still expected to and punished heavily if you do not just pump out as many children as you can, and it's it's sick, it's really sick. Yeah, that's not great when it comes to those support networks.

Most people are familiar with, you know, extended family like for example, grand appearance UM and if as an infant, survival is significantly affected by a grandmother's presence, which is why humans tend to live long past there reproductively viable period. You know, human females live after menopause for pretty long time in commarison to other species, and of course their grandmothers and there of course fathers. UM. There are sisters and god parents and really a lot of other um

cultural systems in place, even polyandrous meeting UM. I think I mentioned that in a previous in the previous episode. There are also forms of like bilocal flexible residents patterns where you know, you always have kin around to take care of your infants. And I would say that it's it's kind of tough because a lot of people these days, you know, struggled with the extended families. Um, it's very

much cool. UM, I love you, but I'm glad we live in separate kind of situation, you know, Like extended families definitely have a lot of prouis and comments. Um, which is why we actually find I think interesting a lot of examples of chosen families throughout different societies. And also even there's some evidence that that might have been the case in the past as well, where unrelated people

would form groups together um. As one example I remember reading about and of course this can't necessarily extended to prehistoric times, but I've seen in multiple different hunt gatherer situations. But um, where you have this this clan system in place, um, and you can not so how far you travel, you can expect to receive care for members of your clan. UM. In North America, I think it was like the Beyer

clan and the Elk Plan and all these different plans. UM. In Aboriginal Australia, they also have different groups as well, and so people were able to interrupt with each other across huge distances and settle in different places and connect

with others to find kin. You really when necessarily directly related. Yeah, there's a couple I mean there's a there's a book called sets It On that I read many many years ago that's about kind of like the evolution of human sexuality and how some of it's been like how different cultures have looked at things like like what makes someone apparent UM, And there's all these different attitudes, Like before we had kind of the scientific understanding of like where

you know, how how babies are conceived um, that we have now there were all these different attitudes like this idea and I forget the name of the people who, but they still exist with somewhere in Latin America, and their their their belief was essentially that when you got someone pregnant, that was the start of the process, and then after like conception, the person with the baby would go around and right, yes, yes, I remember that woman

for the baby. And the idea was that like, well, yeah, when they fucked, that person's like essence gets added to this forming child. And one of the things that that does socially is it means that it means that for that community, UM, children weren't seen as having one father.

They're seen as having a bunch of fathers, all of whom were like responsible for teaching the kid and raising it, which is like, oh, that's a very sensible way to, uh, to organize your little society is to is to is to ensure that like the kids coming up have as many adults who are like responsible for them as possible, which is, broadly speaking, the best thing you can do for kids is to have a bunch of adults being interested in their their their success exactly, because I mean, like,

if you have like one of the best hunters in the village rais in your child, and you have the best craftsman in the villageries in your child, and you have the best fisher villageries and child, that child is gonna have a very well rounded education. You know, it's going to be able to learn a lot of different skills that they're going to need. I mean, that's just one of the many positive effects of having multiple care givers.

The development of a child's would view and sense of self, their concept of self and others, their concept of empathy, the concept of independence, how they how they view the world as either dangerous or insecure or giving and welcoming, and so I mean we are so used to this nuclear family would view, which is these independent um households that we don't consider that the fact that having a broad range of people raising them is actually crucial to

their personal development as children, to the human development really having all of those different perspectives and stuff in place.

And I mean that's part of what Pretty talks about, especially in her final chapter, that being how in modern times, the accumulation of property UM, the emergence of patriarchy UM, even the stuff in the post industrial era, all of these would prompt to shift from cooperative breeding, from cooperation between groups, two war between groups, especially with property, because when you have property, you have a need to hold onswer property. And the whole idea of property is you

in yours the exclusion of all others right now. And so at the end of her book, she also speculates we might be losing our art of nurture because we

are continually evolving um. But she wonders what might be potential evolutionary effects we if we are we wearing children who are not living in internet contact with of a variety of caregivers, because especially within those first two years of life, influence rare and responsible care taking relationships developed in a potentials for empathy, mind reading and cooperation and collaboration. I mean, these behaviors are the outcome of complex interactions

between both genes and nurture. So the question is how can these in their potentials remain more than potentials, you know, I mean because the development of them is far from garen teed. A lot of children these days are raised without extensive social contact um. I mean, even in the year of COVID, where a children are isolated at home,

especially the heights of pandemic. I already wonder if we will see like a Mark at like distinct generation of like within a range of two years of children who just aren't as socialized because for those first two years of their life they were kind of isolated. Well those first few years, they're like they're kind of isolated because there's this lack of empathy, lack of corporative skills, and lack of attachment that make cause it's to Mr Mark,

it's it's really trauma. Um. But trauma doesn't necessarily stop people from continuing that drauma from reproducing and carrying that on. And so I really I'm really curious as to see what the effects that might be and also what we can do to try to um cube that negative impact. The last question she asked is, really, will humans in the future still be empathetic and curious and about the

emotions of others because of our ancient heritage? You not care I'm paraphrasing here, or will these systems that we have in place evolve us in the more Marcavillion direction. Well, I guess that's the mystery that we're all going to get to watch unfold in pieces, at least over the course of you know, the rest of our lives and

everyone else's lives. It is, I don't know. I I think the overall arcade speaks more to the things that about us that are good into increasing cooperation, because that is like the story of the last couple hundred thousand years of human evolution, although at the same time some of that a lot of that cooperation has gone towards

fucked up ends as well. Like, I mean, all of the good and the bad things happening right now are are one way or the other examples of cooperation, right Like it's it's, uh, yeah, I don't know, let's help things get better. So I think we could do more

than hoop. I think we cannot. Yeah, we're going to have I mean like like that's the thing, right, Like part of how specifically in the United States, I mean, but internationally to the right has gotten so much over the last really five or six years, in particular is cooperation across borders and across like ideological differences. Like there's there has been like tremendous sustained cooperation that has allowed them to amass power um the power that they're currently exercising.

And the only thing that's going to actually counter that is the cooperation um an organization if a much larger amount of people, Like there's not that many of those folks, that's why they've had to be so organized. There's a lot more of us. But we're also can't stop fighting about ship. So it is it is like we are going to have to evolve in real time to cooperate better with one another and more effectively in order to

in order to wrench the wheelback. That's true. M hm. Anyway, that's not lose uh and let's not lose your plug doubles Andrew, Yes, you can follow me on Twitter. I don't disclose seeming true. I'm finding on YouTube andruism hell yeah, hell yeah, Well folks, that's gonna be all for us here today that it could happen here until next time, go happen somewhere else. Okay, it could happen here as

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