EU Border Enforcement, Part 2 - podcast episode cover

EU Border Enforcement, Part 2

Jun 05, 202445 min
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Episode description

James talks with Mick and Roos about the EU’s external border, how it contributes to slavery, the abuse and death of migrants, and the role that we can play in advocating for the right to move.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

A Zone Media.

Speaker 2

Hi, we're back, And just to remind people, if you haven't listened to the episode yesterday, you probably won't pick up what's going on today. So I suggest starting there as we commence on our second part of the discussion about the EUS border. Today, we're going to discuss the EU's external border and what that means for migrants. We'll pick up with Mick and Rose and we'll start off

more or less where we left off yesterday. Like you can map, and I'm not the first one to have made these maps, but you can look at humane borders in Arizona, and then you can look at EFF's map of fixed and mobile towers and you can see people. And again this is something I'm more familiar with, and I'd like to be people dying in the shade of the surveillance towers, without help, without water, without the very minor things that it would take for them not to

have died. And so yeah, this provides justification. It provides a massive outlet for the post War on Terror like military industrial complex to continue to make its money, and to continue to make its money through innocent people dying.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think it was either abolish Frontex or the transnational institutes. I got some hands on some literature they were spreading, and there is a direct you can draw a direct line between like the end of the Cold War in the nineties, with military industrial complex having to

fight new ways to sell their products to states. And that's also why the border keeps getting more and more militarized, because it is the one point where they can still sell a lot of things without their having to be a war.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Yeah, there's like a very serious lobby of companies who just want to make money out of making our borders deadly, and they're really successful.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think they just want to make money and they don't care if they make our borders deadly. The end goal is always profit for them, right like, and everything else is consequent to that.

Speaker 3

Think of the stockholders they have to live as well. What I personally find most troubling is this extension of the Iron border into non European countries. So the EU is making deals with countries in which for the in exchange for large sums of money that those countries are now containing, or stopping migrants and refugees from ever leaving

the Middle East Africa. Like Rose said earlier, The Turkey deal is essentially a political deal between the EU and Turkey for Turkey to hold a portion of Syrian refugees over within their border to stop them from coming into Europe. And I think we paid a few billion, more than a few billion probably for Turkey to do that. So the most prominent of these deals are, as I said, Turkey,

but also Tunisia and Libya. We're essentially outsourcing the abuse and human rights violations to countries that are outside the scope of our media, who have regimes that we would declare dictatorships and autocracies. In the case of Libya, it's

even like rebels and warlords being funded with EU taxpayer money. Today, the EUPAC with Libya has given rise to a full fledged slave market run by cold blooded human traffickers who, incentivized by the EU's crackdown on irregular migration and the resulting business downturn of would be profitable passengers, are now auctioning economic migrants and refugees as slaves. Yeah, we're just

doing slavery with extra steps now. So to make it inescapably clear how bad the situation is, I'm now going to quote from an Amnesty International article from twenty twenty one. Three Police Shada al Zawa Center is a facility facility which was previously run by a non affiliated militia and was recently integrated under the DCIM and designated for people in vulnerable situations. A DCIM is an acronym for Libya's Directorate for Combating Illegal Migration. It's essentially a department of

their Interior Ministry. Former detainees from that facility said that guards raped women and some were cohoersed into sex in exchange for their release or for essentials such as clean water grace. A pseudonym said she was heavily beaten for refusing to comply with such a demand. I told the guard no. He used the gun to knock me back. He used a letter soldier's shoe to kick me from my waist. Two young women at the facility attempted to

commit suicide as a result of such abuse. Three women also said that two babies detained with their mothers after an attempted sea crossing had died in early twenty twenty one after guards refused to transfer them to a hospital for a critical medical treatment, and the International Report documents similar patterns of human rights violations including severe beatings, sexual violence, extortion, force labor, and in human conditions across seven DCIM centers

in Libya. In Abuisa Center in the city of al Zayadtnes reported being deprived of nutritious food to the point of starvation end growth.

Speaker 4

Yeah, Libya is is just on a completely different level. And we have systematic torture on almost all border crossings by European border guards, but Libya just manages to do worse than that, just systematically enslave, rate, murder, torture. And I think it's important to stress that, Like there's this Libyan Coast Guard, they're funded by the European Union. So the opinion Union will go out with drones support the

boat of migrants. Previously, the European Union actually had rescue ships, but the European Union, if a boat is near another boat in distress, there's an obligation to rescue, and after the rescue, you have to bring the people to a

safe port. So having having a boat at sea meant that the European Border Agency Front Tax was obliged to rescue people at sea, and so they just thought let's just do away with the boats and let's just have helicopters and drones so we can still spot boats that are sinking, but we cannot help them.

Speaker 3

And they are obligated too.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean they're physically yeah, exactly. They they they managed to escape that responsibility under maritime law, and then they paid the Libyan coast Guard to rescue rescue people quote unquote. Libya is so bad that reportedly migrants just jump in the water if they see a Libyan coast guard because people prefer to drown them to be taken

back to Libya. The Libyan coast Guard takes the people on the boat, brings them back to Libyan mainland, and actually sells them to the militias running the detention centers. So the Libyan coast Guard gets paid twice for stopping migrants, first by the European Union and secondly by the militias that will later sell them as slates or use them

for slavery. And this is what we have been funding for years, and there have been extensive documentation about these human rights violations and the very direct link of the EO funding, and it just keeps going.

Speaker 3

I think it was a year or so back where I saw a video of someone a woman on a dingy who was just incredibly emotional and she was just exclaiming all the time like I'd rather die than go back to Libya, which yeah, it's.

Speaker 4

Yeah, just literally what it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I would encourage that the listeners to just google something like Libya migrant detentions or something and look at the pictures because it's you might get.

Speaker 4

Like traumatized, but you will be more aware of the horrors in the world.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, that they're not great pictures to look.

Speaker 2

At, but thank you for good sleep.

Speaker 3

Like, yeah, I think it's important to see those things because that is the reality that we in Europe often do not get to see, and this is the reality that has been created by our overlords. So what the EU is doing is to be very blunt, extending its own orders into sovereign territory of states outside of Europe to stop migrants from even entering the EU. Proponents of these policies will undoubtedly argue that this saves lives by

preventing people from crossing the Mediterranean in overcrowded boats and dinghies. Personally, I would argue that people will continue to make that crossing if only to escape the EU funded hellholes that these regimes create in order to get that sweet, sweet EU funding. What is definitely very concerning is that despite criticisms from NGOs such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch,

Europe will likely continue these practices. Only last year did it sign a deal with Tunisia with the attention of using that as a third country as they call it, to prevent sea crossings. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen stated that this could be a blueprint for cooperation with other countries. Surprise of no one, this will very likely increase the human rights violations and abusance that happened there.

And after this, I have two examples of stories that that happens at the EU borders that are I think particularly heartbreaking. And this was also the hardest part for me to write, because there are so many stories out there that I think deserve to be heard and deserve to have like some lights shone on there just to show people the reality. But that would be that would turn into a very very long episode.

Speaker 4

Yeah, can I can?

Speaker 5

I quickly just I would like to say something about the these deals and I think there is something very ironic about the European Union pretending to value democracy and human rights.

Speaker 4

And Ladlav Well, I mean what you've just said makes it apondantly clear that human rights in Europe are just for Europeans and not for humans. But I would also just like to stress that it's very strange and I think not maybe often enough address that what Europe is doing is it's just bribing countries. It is bribing countries to stop migrants, It is bribing countries to take unwanted migrants back through deportation. It is often also forced to

take on its own citizens. So it's not only people from Sub Sahara Africa traveling through Libya, but it's also Libyan people themselves. So they have elected a government, they have an interest themselves as well, maybe in having the ability to move away from Libya, and the you needs to come up with enormous sums of money to force these governments to Yeah, why do they need that money? Because that's not in the interest of the country or

its citizens to do this. And especially in the Netherlands, there is this enormous Yeah, there's this is expectation that if we don't like something, other countries should do something about it. So in the Netherlands, Moroccan migrants specifically are filified a lot, and and Algerian migrants, and both countries have not been very collaborative with deportations. But like, why the hell should they support the forced return of their

own citizens who don't want to go back to their countries. Yeah, like there's no reason for them to do that, except if Europe is just abusing its power and forcing it these countries to do things that are yeah, not in their interest. I mean a lot of these border guards. I think Libya has an exception because they they actually make money out of the migrants in so many different ways. But if you look at Serbia or Bosnia, they are

forced to control their borders, which is super expensive. And like, these are tries who have other issues to fix, Like, yeah, maybe they should, maybe they want to focus on building up their country and improving living conditions, but instead the EU is just giving them money to yeah, to protect, to protect borders of people who aren't mainly just walking through their countries. Like that's not really a big problem

for them. And yeah, it's very irunic because Europe is like justifying its migration policies with this idea that every country has sovereignty over who it allows access. That's like legally, that's like the fundament of migration deterrence. But it only claims that right for itself. So if other countries say, well, I don't care if there's Serians walking through my country, like maybe they'll spend some money and they'll just leave anyway. Yeah,

other countries don't have the right. I think Belarus is an interesting example as well, because Belarus welcomed migrants and then brought them to the new border with Poland and Lithuania, and Bellus says every right to give feesa to people. You know, it's actually like just like the Namla says the rights to give freesa to people, Belarus says that right too. And then of course people can also go to the border across the border if they want and

ask for asylum. So yeah, I just wanted to highlight the irony of how incredibly one sided Europe is in how we can claim that we want to keep people out, but other countries are not allowed to have sovereign migration policies.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we see it exactly the same in the US, right, and we're trying to outsource processing of migrants to Quatemolson on Durs. We are trying to I mean, we pay Mexico massive sum of money to enforce ourborder, right like we saw. It's funny there are three gaps outside of a combat that people who have listened to this podcast will be very familiar with my reporting on. And we saw those gaps close down, not when people started coming so much, but once once legacy media outlets showed up.

Then by December, the US had a bilateral meeting with Mexico, and very soon thereafter, we saw Mexican National Guard sitting at those gaps in the border wall. The US is border like if people are leaving Mexico, it's not Mexico's problem. But we saw them with technicals and machine guns policing

those gaps in the border. And the US gives a ton of money to countries to enforce its border right to prevent migration and get extremely The US has even taken actions to prosecute airlines that fly people north so that they can do that too. Yeah.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it's like insane, like half a million or something for like bringing one migrant.

Speaker 2

Without of these yeah yeah.

Speaker 4

Two is externalization, just as like bribing Libya to protect the border. Is also like actually forcing carriers, like forcing transport companies to be the border guard.

Speaker 2

Yeah, to ascertain whether you have a visa or not, decide if you have the right to travel. Let's pick up with those examples you make, because I think it is important for people to kind of have a human face or a human story.

Speaker 3

Well, to preface this, like migrants are under EU law, migrants are supposed to apply for aside in the first EU country that they enter. This policy is likely the result of fear from more affluent European countries that the majority of refugees will travel to those countries. This means that the countries geographically closest to Africa and the Middle East are the ones supposed to take in most refugees.

Think of Spain, Greece, Italy, Bulgaria. They however, are not too acphusiastic at the prospect of taking huge amounts of migrants.

Speaker 4

More are the migrants themselves.

Speaker 3

By the way, I can imagine that they're also a lot too keen to live in Bulgaria, especially after what follows next, because this story happened at the Turkish Bulgarian border. But I also personally it's just incredibly cruel that like the Netherlands and Germany and the Scandinavia countries are like, oh no, you should take you should take all those refugees, like we don't want them here.

Speaker 4

And I would say, that's like where the outstoarsing starts, like that's you law. We have shance, so we have like free travel within the u EU, but that comes with extremely violently guarding the outside of the u So if you are a border country, you are only welcome if you can prove to us that you are cr

enough to discourage people from crossing this border. Because again, like Bulgaria doesn't really have that much interest in guarding the borders if people can just if they anyway want to go to Western European countries, right, so it's a way to again to I would say, the border externalization already starts from like the main countries of destination, which is like France and Germany and even Bulgaria would not have much interest in stopping migrants if there were not

all of these rules to make them responsible.

Speaker 3

Exactly. But again, which is why I said, like the more affluent countries within you don't want that for reasons that I think anyone can think of at this point of the story is where pushbacks come into play. This is a tactic used by the countries I just mentioned. It's a set of measures that force people back over

the border they crossed, often immediately after. This practice is often a force for violence and does not take into account the circumstances of migrants and denies them the opportunity to apply for asylum. This means that the EU does pushback people that have very legitimate reasons to apply for asylum. Under the EU's own rules, I'm going to quote, pushbacks violate the prohibition of collective expulsion of asylum seekers in Protocol four of the European Convention on Human Rights, and

often violate the international law prohibiting on non refoulment. It's French, yeah, ah, okay, I was never good at French, all right. It's a fundamental principle of international law that forbids a country receiving asylum seekers from returning them to a country in which they would be improbable danger of persecution based on race, religion, nationality, members ship of a particular social group, or political opinion.

That being said, I'm aware even like the Dutch government has sent like Lgbtqi people back to countries where they could be like persecuted for that. So again those rules seem to be very optional. So what follows now is two examples of border practices that I think are particularly egregious. So on October third, twenty twenty two, Abdullah Mohammed, at age nineteen, a Syrian refugee, attempted to cross the Bulgarian

Turkish border. After being pushed back by border guards, they threw stones at the border I would emphasize here at the border itself, not at the guards. After this, a shot rang and Abdullah fell to the ground with a bullet lodged one centimeter away from his heart. He survived and was interviewed by Lighthouse Reports. He states that there was an intent to kill when he was shot. That's his belief. The bullet also pierced this hand, which is

now partially paralyzed. There seems to be no justification or reason whatsoever for border guards to have shot, or to have shot with live ammunition. This was the first time that such an incident was called on video. If you want, you can find it linked on Lighthouse Reports. Attached to the article about this incident. The video is not as bad as you might think, but watch you at your

own risk. As far as I'm aware, there have been similar rumors before, but this was the first instant that has entered like the public record, or the first time it was actually documented. Needless to say, no one should be shot for attempting to cross a border. I don't care about anyone's opinion or bad faith nuances. People have a right to apply for asylum, and as far as I'm concerned, this was a deliberate and calculated attempted murder.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I do think there have been quite a lot of videos of people being shot, and definitely people making statements about it and just having the actual bullet in their body to prove that it happened. Yeah, it happened in Croatia, it happened in Greece. Greece is a habit of shooting at boats as well, and in that way making people drown. Yeah. And of course, apart from the shootings, which I would say on the European borders that they

are still kind of rare. Yeah, the pushbacks and the violence and the torture is yeah, the evidence of that is like an enormous pile. There's when I was working in Bosnia, I think that was in twenty eighteen nineteen, there was no video footage of a pushback, and there was a journalist who volunteered with us for a while and they were the first one to film it. But in the past years there have been like many, many horrible videos of people being beaten up and actual torture.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Of course in the US, under the pretense of protecting us all from the coronavirus, which still killed millions of people in this country, we have done they called Title forty two, which allowed border patrol to quote unquote repatriate people to Mexico, even if they were Mexican, and just drop them back in Mexico, to include laterally transferring them, which is a pseudonym for kind of trafficking them halfway across the country and then dumping them in a place

where they have no connections, no money, and no way of establishing themselves right. And this led to massively increased a fatalities at the border because people were trying to avoid border patrol where then coming in and surrendering themselves for so as we see now and massively increase encounters at the border encounters don't necessarily represent unique individuals. Right, this is my I will beat this fucking drum until I die. But apparently our colleagues at New York Times

haven't worked it out yet. Wall Street Journal, almost every NPRT, every big outlet in the United States that likes to commission border reporters who don't live on the border will tell you that that, like the number of migrants went up. An encounter is an encounter. If someone crosses and then gets bounced into Mexico and then crosses again and does that five times, that's five encounters. It's the same person. BP doesn't keep records of unique individuals under Title forty two,

or didn't keep under Citle forty two. We don't know how many people, but we know that more people tried to cross, and we also know that every time you try to cross, you risk your life. And so we certainly know that more lives will put in danger because of this policy, because again, like turning someone back is not going to stop them, especially when you're dropping them in a country where they don't want to be and

where they're not from. Like, the people aren't just going to be like okay, cool, I'll stay in Mexico like that. That has not historically been the case.

Speaker 4

Yeah, we had exactly the same kind of juggling with numbers. I remember people in Bosnia. Some of them would get pushed back like forty or fifty times, and so they would be counted as individuals starts. Yes, indeed, so it would.

Speaker 6

Sound as if there was like, I don't know, tens of thousands, and I was like, it's really not that many, though, Yeah, yeah, just literally count the same person again and again and again.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And also I would like to say that like, yes, it is a border like the EO border countries, but it is also much deeper into the territory. So we externalize the border towards like Libya, Niger and way further even, but we also internalized the border, so we would find we would have people who had made it to Austria or Italy. They would get caught in Austria Italy, be pushed back to Slovenia, taken over by Slovenian police, brought

to the Croatian border, taken over decoration police. Often in Croatia get tortured and then be dumped on the Boston In border, which would be the EO border as well. So that's what they call chain pushbacks and yeah, I yeah, so I worked in the Boston hed Selovina, which is none you, So we would get the people after they had been pushed back.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 4

The things that people have done, like wader guards have done to migrants are yeah, I don't know if you actually want to use this footage, right, it's like it's really really gruesome. Like in Bosnia, they would they would be like snow form, like they have very long and very cold winters. They would take away people's shoes and socks and like make them walk for five hours on bare feet. So one of the main tasks of our volunteers are medical volunteers, was amputating toes. People would, Yeah,

people would come back with broken bones, broken skulls. People would be sent back with just their underwear at minus twenty degrees celsius. I don't know how much that is.

Speaker 2

In the US, neither do ways. I think they come together around minus twenty. It's extremely The culdred.

Speaker 4

Gets the more accurate. Yeah. So, like at some point we start to call this cold torture as a kind of specific yeah, tactic that mainly the Croatian border guards were using yeah. Also yeah, And I also want to stress again that yes, it is the European border countries in the east and in the West and in the south.

But when I was working in Bosnia, Croatia was not yet part of the Shanan Zone, and like politicians were pretty explicit about Croatia can only enter if they have solved their border problem, even though there was constantly proof of torture coming out. The same happened with Bulgaria and Romania.

So these countries were very very much pressured by countries like the Netherlands and Germany, who like you know, pretend not to have anything to do with these atrocities, but who were very very explicitly saying if you are not, if you don't get your borders in control, you cannot join the economic Yeah, you cannot have the open borders within the U.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's so sad to see all these serialities. This is very depressing. My friends and I were helping someone who had it like the early onset of like like trench foot, Yeah, a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we don't do it, like I guess as a policy as much as just by default. But in the mountains and then desert here in California. When it rains, areas that are drive the rest of the year turn into rivers and migrants have to cross him. We've also seen a large number of migrants drown this year in San Diego, and I more will have drowned if very brave people hadn't risk their own lives rescuing them. Not people who were working for the government, just individuals who cared.

We've also seen a young man from Jamaica recently passed away. This was in early probably early for some February and March. From February March. He was on a migrant trail. I know exactly where, about a few hundred yards actually from where my friends have left warm clothes, hand warmers, jackets, food, water. But he wasn't able to make it that far and for whatever reason, you know, like one death of a tragedy and a millions of statistic or whatever. But that

really impacted me. He was actually on the other side of the border when he died, but like he could have thrown a stone into the US and it's not a fence to border there. But yet we have chosen a policy which made that young man die of hypothermia by himself on the side of a mountain because for some reason, that's what we've decided, or our government has decided it's better than having him come here and be able to make his case and live with us and

get a job or what have you. And yeah, that was just a particularly heartbreaking one for me because I knew that, like, he was five minutes walk away, ten minutes walk away from potentially being okay, And like that that's why my friends and I like to go out and leave stuff for people. But it shouldn't be a group of anarchists and migrant activists and people of faith like hiking into the desert every weekend with backpacks full

of water and food and warm clothes. That shouldn't be what prevents people from dying coming here.

Speaker 4

Yeah, there's a kind of cruelty in that, even like it is amazing to help people to be part of a group of people who commit themselves to yeah, to resist these incredibly violent borders and to support people who

decide to cross them. But at the same time, it is just so problematic that someone's life, like access to food or healthcare, depends on whether or not there are some crazy volunteers willing to do that, so like it shouldn't be like our you know, are like, yeah, like I don't want to have that power over someone's life, and I think no one should have that power over

someone's life. But this system where basically migrants lives are disposable, also mean that it's like optional to offer super basic things that can save these lives.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, very much too.

Speaker 3

Are you ready for the second depressing story.

Speaker 2

Yeah, let's get the second depress let's hit rock bottom. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3

So I'm sure you've you've heard this story before, but still I think it's very much worth repeating. So on June fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the Adriana, a ship on its way degrees, capsized and subsequently sank. The boat allegedly had the capacity for about four hundred people, but carried around seven hundred and fifty. Of all those lives, one hundred and four were saved, eighty two were confirmed deaths, and up to four five hundreds are missing and presumed death,

the majority of which are women and children. I'll refer back to the Lighthouse Reports, who did a reconstruction of the incident, which makes this even worse than it already is. Transcriptions and witness statements obtained by Lighthouse Reports, the Oshpiego Monitor, Asiairaj, Lpos Report, Is United and The Times strongly suggests that the Greek coast Guard attempted to conceal their own involvement in this tragedy. Nine survivors were asked to make statements,

none of which appeared to blame the coast guard. Different suggestions were given for the capsizing, blaming it on the edge of the ship or the lack of life jackets. Four of these statements contained near identical phrasing. It was later discovered that one of the translators was a coast guard himself. There were other translators, all of which were sworn in on that very day later in Greek courts. Six of those nine stated that the coast guard did

in fact tow the boat before it went down. Two survivors tot Lighthouse reports that certain parts of their testimony was omitted in the transcription to clarify that a bit because of what I said earlier that migrants have are obligated to apply for asylum in the country in which they arrive. It's become a habit of like coast guard and frontext to drag them to certain areas of of water that are part of for example, Italy or Greece.

This particular one boat may have been an attempt to drag the boat to Italian waters so the Greeks didn't have to take them in. So to quote the report from Lighthouse sixteen out of the seventeen survivors we spoke to set the coast guard attached the rope to the vessel and tried to tow it shortly before it capsized.

Four also claimed that the coast guard was attempting to tow the boat to Italian waters, while four reported that the coast guard caused more depths by circling around the boat after it capsized, making waves that caused the boat's carcass to sink. End quote not great badtime stories if you ask me, yeah, I thin, yes, there there's just no words like yeah.

Speaker 2

I think I think to say like, I don't think anyone should be okay with it.

Speaker 1

M M.

Speaker 2

Perhaps I think we're going to talk again about how people can oppose this, and how people can try their best to to a change the system and be do what they can, you know, while we're stuck in this terrible place to make things more survivable and less cruel. So perhaps we can finish up here with you guys plugging anything you want to. If there are orgs or social media where people can follow both of your work and then I'd love to hear about them.

Speaker 4

Yeah, you can follow us on migrates dot the n I think it's like for English and migrated.

Speaker 5

I G R E A C.

Speaker 4

Yeah, the system is super fucked. It is super super super fucked. It is Yeah, it's really treating human beings as disposable and human a moment life has absolutely no value. But I also just wanted to say that I think a lot of migrants who cross borders they are aware of the risks. But I think it's also important to

say that it isn't it's a kind of resistance. It is a kind of We started that episode with talking about passport privilege and the lottery of birth, and I think we should not only look at like the bad border guards and the good people helping or something, but I think we should also acknowledge that the people crossing the borders are doing like taking unbelievable risk, often also

to help their families or their friends. Yeah, and I think crossing a border without permission is a kind of resistance. And I think we as people who do direct support or direct aid, we are I mean, for me, it's also part of the resistance. Is like helping people cross the border. I don't mind if yeah, people that want to accuse me of being a smaller or something, or like aiding illegal border crossings, Like the whole point is that people should be able to cross that border.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really good Someone recently accused us of in Cucumber that said that people people come to a cumber because we feed them, and like it's fucking ludicrous, Like you didn't fucking come from a guinea because I'm going to give you a peanut butter sandwich.

Speaker 4

Bat like the best food.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, yeah, like it is. It is not the best. It's the best we can do, like you know, less than an other person or what have you. But like no, like but I yes, but I am doing it because I believe that person should be able to and not just because they're in those circumstances, but because I fundamentally support there, right, Like I want them to be my neighbor. Yeah, I'm okay with that, and that's why I'm doing it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, absolutely think I think we should all keep in mind how many of our friends, family, or other loved ones have moved at some point in their lives for a job or opportunities or love or whatever. Not that the essence of like Huban movement is the same, right right there?

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it is our politicians who choose that this movement is a problem, that the movement of these people specifically is a threat or danger, whereas I think, like, yeah, if you talk about like racism or systemic racism, the questions, I was like, yeah, but what is the system?

Speaker 1

Then?

Speaker 4

This is the system, the visa policies, the actual border, This is what is keeping people like is trying to keep people unexploitable conditions in the global South, is doing incredible cruelties to them just for political gain. Is exploiting people who do make it, but who are undocumented or on fragile resident status and are still exploited and deprived of basic rights even if they do arrive to their country of destination. Like this system is designed to create

an underclass of people that is easily exploitable. There are companies who are profiting from this. There is absolutely no intention to stop migration, but there is definitely an intention to marginalize and segregate migrants and yeah, and just profits of it.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And meanwhile, we do the absolute bare minimum to provide aids to those countries to make the living conditions there better.

Speaker 4

Yeah, these borders are playing a role and keeping people exploitable there and making it possible to make them work for incredible low wages and horrible labor conditions. Like yeah, into those into those conditions.

Speaker 3

I think the the mandatory international development aid that countries should pay is like zero points zero zero seven percent or something of the GDP, and the majority of like Western countries are not not not doing that even that. So it's very much like the problem is that they're coming here, not that the conditions there are ships and war keeping them ships.

Speaker 2

Yeah, were great.

Speaker 3

I'm a bit bumped now.

Speaker 2

Yeah, sorry, we left you will saide. We will come back with with Rose again and make to talk about ways to make it better. Is there anything you wanted to plug, make any anything you want people to give the time money to follow on the internet.

Speaker 3

I just want to give a shout out to like organizations such as Migrates, but also the abolished Frontechs campaign and United Against Refugee's And it would urge anyone to who feels compassionate to help out. There are so many ways you can help out, even if you don't know it yet. It is sorely needed. Like wherever you are, whoever you are, you can help out.

Speaker 1

Hi.

Speaker 2

Everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to read you this today. We're going to put it in our episode this week because it's a cause that's important to us, and so we thought it would be something that might

be important to you too as well. On the tenth of June twenty twenty four, Lennond Pelgier, an enrolled member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota and Ojibwei ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in the United States, will be appearing before the US Parole Commission for the

first time since two thousand and nine. He faces staunch opposition from the FBI and other laurenenforcement agencies due to having allegedly killed two FBI agents in a firefight on the twenty sixth of June nineteen seventy five, after the agents appeared on reservation land to execute a pretextural warrant.

The initial firefight occurred during the quote reign of terror on Pine Ridge in the wake of the occupation of Wounded Kney, a time of extreme violence when federal law enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair and was arming vigilantes who targeted Indigenous traditionalists. Every since leading up to these events, as well as subsequent investigation and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction, and sentencing, were characterized by gross misconduct on the part

of law enforcement, the prosecution, and the courts. Mister Peltier's co defendants were separately tried and acquitted on grounds of

self defense. Mister Peltier was railroaded, and his case is tainted by discrimination every level, ranging from the withholding of exculpatory evidence to the torture and coercion of extradition and trial witnesses, and from the refuse of the judge to dismiss and vowedly racist Dura, to the apologetic gymnastics of the courts affirming his convictions in the face of meritorious

legal challenges and admitted evidence about rageous government misdeeds. Mister Peltier has been in prison for more than forty eight years and he's almost eighty years old. He suffers from chronic and potentially lethal conditions for which he receives insufficient and substandard medical care. If you want to take action to hashtag free Lenard Peltier, you can call the US Parole Commission at two zero two three four six seven

zero zero zero. And if you'd like to find more information on how to support, you can go to this r L it's h t t P colon slash slash n d n C dot c C slash free Leonard Peltier. That's fre e l e O n A r d P e l t i E or you can follow NDN collective on social media for more ways to support him. More information on Danna Peltier, listen to Margaret's podcast on the Lakota Nation, a read in the Spirit of the Crazy Horse by Peter Mathewson.

Speaker 1

It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,

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