Defend the Atlanta Forest Interview

working with the Defend the Atlanta Forest Coalition. It's a coalition of activists who are working to prevent the deforestation project going on in Southeast Atlanta. Now, in the interview, they mentioned some actions on Friday that have already happened. As of recording, they did not happen, so they mentioned those as actions coming up. But there's also actions coming up on Tuesday, September seven, because that's also the day that the city Council is going to vote whether to

can tinue with the deforestation project or not. So this Tuesday, there's gonna be actions that if you're in Atlanta, you can be a part of that gets talked about in the episode. So just just a heads up for timelines in case that gets a little confusing. Anyways, Uh, that's enough of me talking. So here is the interview with people from the Defend the Atlanta Forest Coalition. Hello, and welcome.

Today we are going to be interviewing some people who are working with and help with the Atlanta Forest Defense project that is ongoing. UM. If you're unfamiliar with this, we'll learn about it here in the interview. UM. But first off, I have Chris here to help to help me today, and I'd like to introduce the people we're talking with. Jamalti one of the start Yeah. So actually my name is jamal um Working. I'm an organizer with Community Movement Builders. We do our main goal of building

self sustainable black communities. UM. We have a base or a place based organization, at least for the Atlanta chapter in the Pittsburgh neighborhood of Atlanta. We do have different chapters across the country, all doing place based work in their respective areas. UM. We are we we've gotten onto

this coalition UM with Atlanta Forest Defense. But particularly because with this particular area, you know, it's uh, while they're just showing three eight acres of land, what the the purpose of doing it is to UM build a mock cops city, right, It's a mock city of of Atlanta, in order to essentially practice militarized warfare on the Atlanta's

residents and so. UM. While you know, all of us are extremely concerned about the deforestation that's happening, the other layer of of what we're what we're dealing with is also an immediate threat to particularly the black communities UM in Atlanta. The point working class black communities here in Atlanta. Yeah, hey, thanks for having me on. I'm Chassa. I I'm one of the help coordinators of the Atlanta chapter of the Sunrise Movement, which is a movement of young people working

to stop climate change and create good jobs in the process. UM. I think that you draw said it really well and that UM this issue with forced defense, with stopping UM this facility from being built, it really is. UM. It

really does have two prongs. It's an issue very uniquely at the intersection of racial and environmental justice because on one hand, it's an expansion of policing in a city that does not need more police, and on the other hand, it is systematic of unfettered capitalism and greed and exploitation that causes all this environmental devastation. So I'm really excited. I think we have two really good prongs of a um of the of the conversation and the argument against

this ordinance. Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't realize how like what I like, Usually when I think of Atlanta, I don't think of as as a very like forest dense city. Um, but it absolutely is. Um that's just not something that really gets highlighted a lot nationally, is how how green Atlanta really really is. And um, you guys want to talk about I've I've never been to Atlanta. Do I want to talk about kind of how like the city is like laid out and all of like you know, how how the forest

intersects with with the city. Yeah. Absolutely so, I mean, yeah, Atlanta is essentially a city that was built in the middle of a forest. Like I live. I live in the Pittsburgh neighborhood in Atlanta, and um, literally it's you know, trees, green greenery all over the place. Um. I went, I come home, I'll see on my screen door there's a frog that's just chilling there. Um. So it's like it's not your typical like urban city in a in a sense of what a lot of people think of, like

particularly think of like cities in the northeast. UM. But it really is just a city in the middle of a forest. UM. And I think it also ties in like again I'm talking about environmental racism, UM, intersecting with you know, well talking about environmental racism period, right and deforestation. UM. What we see is that because it's in the middle of a forest, and what does the forest do. It

protects us from flooding. It protects and protects us from all all these different natural disasters that we're seeing across the world, across our country right now, for example, but even locally which at Lanta didn't get hit very hard by the you know, the hurricanes, but anytime it rains, my uh, like my block floods, right because this because um, you know, the forest has been removed to be able to to make way for you know, different types of

infrastructure being built. From my perspective, it's been like a lot of changes to Atlanta's kind of whole economy in a in a lot of ways to pass like ten fifteen years UM. Specifically with the film industry moving into into Georgia and Atlanta specifically in the past like twin any and this this does intersect with with what's going on,

does any does anyone want to speak on that? I would say that, Um, you know, it's really good to note that Atlanta has the most amount of tree coverage out of any major metropolitan area in the United States. Oh wow, I didn't I didn't know that either. And when we say city in a forest, we mean city in a forest. Yeah, that's definitely true. And we we

have green space we want to preserve it. But um, the the forest Defense has also been highlighting like the ties between policing and corporate elites and corporate CEOs and people who want to move in and push development projects, and something similar is happening, um black Claw studios. Like you said, the expansion of like the media industry and all of that into Atlanta, it leads to gentrification of communities.

Really really recently, Atlanta just became um just very I think, like in the last like a few weeks, we just got the data that said that Atlanta isn't the majority black city anymore. And that's because black lawmakers and lawmakers in the city have been making these decisions in conjunction with corporations and developers that pushed people out of their homes,

under the streets and out of the city. So it's a really big problem that our demographics have changed a lot in the last TenTen seeing here is because of that in Cops City, like that that this development project is very reminiscent of all of this, And just to piggyback off of that, I think it's extremely important for

us to recognize the connections between all these things. Right this, like Cops City is a perfect blend of UM environmental justice issues, uh, just flat out racism, police brutality, and

also gentrification. Right, it's not a it's not a mistake that they're building this Cops City right at this moment when UM Atlanta is also becoming for the first time and I don't know how many decades, UH non no longer majority black city because neighborhoods like Pittsburgh were located out of and all across Southwest and West Atlanta have becoming more like the black people have been being displaced

from the from our communities, right. UM. So a perfect example is that with my organization, Community Movement Builders, we UH purchased. We've we've been doing work in the Pittsburg neighborhood for a while, but we purchased a community house in the neighborhood about six years ago. Right at that point, we purchased the house for fifty tho dollars. Right, UM, Pittsburgh has been historically UH poor and working class community.

It was uh it was founded as a black community, which is different from a lot of other other neighbors in Atlanta. Was founded as a black community from UH freed Africans UM who we're trying to escape some of the more rural areas of the South and found work in Haven in the Pittsburgh neighborhood of Atlanta. And it's been a poor and working class black community ever since. But now UM, because of the gentrification has been going on.

How how has just sold maybe about a month and a half ago, for seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So the person's house at fifty thou dollars six years ago, the house just sold UM just a few blocks away from that house for seven fifty thousand dollars. Now it's not every house is selling for that amount, but that just shows you the rate of gentrification that's happening. And then and we know that cops are on this necessary part of being able to defer to displace people from

gentrifying communities. They play an integral role within gentrification. Yeah, I'm just wondering, does any of you have anything like even like anecdotal experience with like basically Marvel and Men, tons of other industries like invading Atlanta. How is that like affected specifically, Like you already talked about how how you know, increased the increase in the film industry and

other things. Has you know, has made more gentrification? But like, how has that even affected just like like other types of stuff, including like policing, Like has has this type of like growth um affected people or people you know

in in other ways? Yeah? Absolutely so. I think a lot of this kind of got I won't say it got started, but a lot of it went even uh you know, escalated when Tyler Perry Studio opened up in East Point Um and a lot of people, you know, we're praising it's like, oh look at this, uh you know, it's a black man. I was able to move down

and be able to start this thing within Hollywood. But no, it's all that is one of the things that also spurred the gentrification in East Point, which is you might not be familiar with Atlanta, but East Point is like literally right next to Atlanta, So it's a lot of it's it's it's really close proximity. And so that also spurs over to the gentrification here in the city as well. Um.

Property values have gone up since that point, even more. UM. Even my tax bill has gone up a thousand dollars a year per a year UM for the past like three years, right, UM. So it's yeah, it's it's definitely we definitely see the effects and you know, and just talking to you know, we do, we do do a lot of work around gentrification. UM. And I think this is intend them with you know, because we have COVID nineteen out here now, with the Vision moratorium which has

now been you know denied um by the Supreme Court. Um. But even when there wasn't a Vision moratorium, there were still people that were getting evicted from their homes. And I think all of this in tandem when Atlanta specifically has already been going through a gentrification crisis, and um with COVID nineteen, where people have been losing jobs, left and right or not been able to go to their jobs that they've had um and look and having us

salaries cut. People have been hurting. And the response from the city has not too been that has not been to provide more resources to people. It's been too fund cops city to be able to get more peace out. Who are the ones that execute the actual evictions themselves? And I think it all, it all, it all is

connected in that in that type of way. Yeah, I mean, like I think if people don't know, like the reason why so many filming projects have moved to Georgia in the past decade and a half, it's because basically, UM, Georgia instituted a pretty substantial tax cut for production companies to film in Georgia, so they would they would like not even just get a tax cut, but also at tax credit you would actually get like you would actually

get money for filming in Georgia. UM. And theoretically, this, this, this can be good things, right, this, this could strengthen local film film industry and hire people who already in Georgia. But in a lot of cases they are hiring a lot of out of state workers to come in and do these big productions. Um, including you know, Marvel and

and various other film studios. I think, uh, just looking looking at something like it was in about in twenty six there was they were supposed to have around like um jobs created, um, but only of those went to people actually living in Georgia. So there is job creation, but it's a lot of people moving in from from from people getting flowed in from like New York from California two then, but both are taking the jobs in in the city, but also they have to live there,

so they're also eating up housing. UM. And this housing is getting paid for by big corporations, which is making prices go up and up. And it's this kind of cascading problem which is now you know, even even led to this deforestation project. UM. You you've mentioned what the deforestage project is and you've called it like a cops city, UM.

And I think this is this is an extremely fascinating, um and horrifying like dystopia like idea of don't explain like what they're actually trying to do with this, with this section of force and what they're trying to build. I do want to take a second and just kind of make a point really quickly that I think is important. UM. The Atlantic Police Foundation, which is basically the ther machine

that works with the Atlanta Police Department. UM, if you look at their website, if you look at their goals, if you look at their objectives, they always say and purport UM that like, Hey, we're looking to protect the city. We're looking to do all of these things. And I think it's really interesting because they're also looking to expand their police force as this cop City then would allow, which would take about five years to develop, but is still going to be a massive expansion of policing if

it were to be passed. Um, do you have these people, you have these police for saying that we are looking to expand the work that we do. We're looking to hire more officers, We're looking to put more people on the streets streets. And at the same time, you have an eviction moratorium that is putting people on the street streets.

And it's just really interesting that their jobs and their livelihood rely on the existence of poverty, in the existence of crime in order to have in order to have a need for more police, you need more people on the streets. In order to have a need for more police, you need more people whose doors need to be knocked on to be told, hey, you're getting evicted, You're getting

pushed out of your home. So I think that is very reminiscent of the fact that police do not protect us because they're the existence of their jobs rely on our poverty. Yeah, they're not. They're not actually trying to help regular people who are living in Atlanta and trying to make other people happy, who have a lot more money and who have other other things that stay. Yeah. Absolutely, and that definitely intersects with a lot of this stuff.

Another point to make is that who as sits on the board of the Atlanta Police Foundation, right, It is all of the CEOs of the big businesses that are in the city of Atlanta. The CEO of Coca Cola, the CEO of Chick fil A, the CEO of Home Depot, all of these, the major corporations, the Fortune five, Fortune one d for most of them, corporations that are that run the city of Atlanta. The corporate elite are the ones that are sitting that are on the board of

this of the Atlanta Police Foundation. Who are the ones that are building this and are are funding this project so that they can protect their property UM, and so that they can expand the police force that and what we know is that police doesn't don't protect people and protect property UM, and they protect the corporate elite. So I think all of those things are it comes full circle as a great Michael Cosum of racial capitalism that UM is exploiting uh, poor and working class black folks

in particular. Yeah, and if if people are unfamiliar, does anyone want to explain what the what what the project that the police are trying to build is And they're I know they're teaming up with like different like prison firms and stuff as well, like like what is what is the actual project? Sure, so I can kind of give a broader overview and wall if I miss anything,

if you want to add it in, that would be great. UM. So basically they want to take UM ownership of three hundred and eighty one acres of forested land in unincorporated to Cobb County. UM. This land was once the old Atlanta put Prison Farm. Before that it was Key Plantation, and before that it belonged to the um Miss Scogee Nation and it was stolen from them and then folks were enslaved on it and then forced into unpaid labor for prison work on it as well. So it's a

land with the very scarred history. What the APF wants to do essentially is UM bulldoze a great deal of it and then build this training facility and mocks city. UM it's going to The plans currently include plans for explosives testing and weapons testing and like all of that stuff, and then UM, I think this is a good point to make is that there have been a lot of attempts to kind of placate the public on the facility. So they say, oh, we're not going to destroy all

of the land. We're gonna do a hundred fifty acres, or we're gonna get it where, We're gonna cut it town to a hundred and twenty acres, or we'll leave this part or um we'll create some green space as well,

and we'll have like a food farm as well. But there was this really great environmental impact report that was done that kind of showed that UM a lot of the impacts that this would actually in terms of UM, the runoff from all of those explosives testing and things like that would um end up polluting the South River and would pollute the very urban farm that they proposed to exist on the land itself, so that food, that

those fish, all of that would become destroyed. And it's really really, I think helpful to just point this out as a really specific instance of environmental racism because the people who are going to be affected by that are people who lived there. And of course this is being lived there, this is being built near marginalized communities, so

that's kind of what's happening. They want to, UM, I live on Georgia type campus, just to give an example, And this facility would be larger than that, or about the size of that. This facility would be about the size of UM Disneyland in California. UM it is huge. It's a huge. Yeah, And I'm guessing they're they're They're not going to be building there explosives and military testing facility next to where all the rich people live. They're not going to be like testing out bombs where all

of you know, the upper class people are. Of course not. Yeah, people get saying Buckhead wants the facility, but they don't want it in Buckhead. They wouldn't do it there. Of course.

It's not a mistake that UM all of like and even with UH so, you know, with city council, people who have gotten a little bit scared and nervous about our past and our current um efforts again to be able to raise awareness about this because the other part of this is what isn't that it should be highlighted, is that, you know, city council talks about how they're trying to make this a more uh you know, they're

getting the input of people. All this was done before organizers exposed it without anybody knowing, right there was no advertisement, There's no like, no calls made or no in public input about any of this happening until organizers started, you know, blowing it up, and that's what's gotten them scared at this point. But even and then now that people do are aware of it, some a few certain in UH city Countis members are saying, Okay, we're gonna backtrack a

little bit. Maybe you don't want it to be here because of this forest we want. We might want to put it in a different location, but it's important that all those proposed locations. One, I think it's pretty much bullshit. They're gonna build it there at that location. They've already had the plans for it. But even if they were to move, all those other proposed locations are all south

of anywhere. Anybody that lives or is from Atlanta, um knows that south of I twenty is where all of the black people live basically, and so and all of the poor and working class people of Atlanta, uh in the city live. So this is so it's it's a so yes, they like just just like she was saying, right, um Buckhead wants this, Midtown wants this. Um, the richest areas of the city want this, but they don't want it for them. They wanted to uh police, uh, poor

and working class people. Yeah, I mean like be even beyond the disastrous en mental effects and building this giant but tearing down forest and building this giant concrete structure would have like it's just this is gonna and and even beyond like the increased problems with gentrification. Just like the further militarization of the police is like, this isn't

like a niche problem you gets talked about anymore. Like this is like a widely and this is generally think that's something that's talking that got talked about a lot. Is how militarization of police is bad um. You know, even for like more like softer liberals is something that even they can like you know, say that they agree with. Yet they're building this giant compound to make their police

like some like super like swat team, military tactical training unit. UM. And Yeah, I think another point is that even if wherever it's built anywhere like it, it shouldn't be built like, we don't you don't need this in the first place

at all. You don't, you know, beyond the forest being being you know, torn down, which is horrible, you don't need this built anywhere, right, Like That's so like in organizing against this, is is it kind of split up in between protecting the forests and organizing against the facility or or are these things kind of just so combined that these struggles are still linked that there's really no no, no,

no difference between between the two. Yes. So I think the initial coalition came pretty naturally because everybody that was in the coalition UM, in one way or another, was against this project. Right. We had folks that were more so on the environmental side of things. We have folks that were more so on the police brutality side, and UM and the police abolition side of things. Um, however, I think all of us have in some way or another, you know, we have interests in all the all these

issues are all overlaying right. So the coalition formed because even while we might have our specialized interests in different areas, this particular project is one that was a microcosm of so many different things that we could unite behind all of these things to be able to find a coalition

to fight against it. Right. Um, And I think, uh, to uh your point, Christopher, I think one thing that's also really significant is that so my city council person for his district twelve, Joyce Shepherd, Um, District twelve is where Pittsburgh is, where Summerhill is, where several of poor and black working class neighborhoods of Atlanta are located. There are also the areas where they're the most gentrifying areas of the city as well. And it's in in in

city Council District twelve. Joyce Shepherd. She is the person who brought this proposal forward, right. She is over the quote unquote public safety. Um, you know they ain't keeping ship safe public safety? Um, you know commission And Um, she brought this forward. And she has been since she's been in office, she has been a even uh, she's been a champion of gentrification, right, she's been a champion

of over policing as well. Um. And I think it's it's a tie between even our city council or even representation has in their interests of being able of of gentrifying the city because that gives them more tax stars, it gives them a way to be able to say that they are decreasing their crime rates except and all those all these different types of things when it's really just dep deplacing poor folks. Um. And so I think that's an important about talking about how this kind of

was established. That's an important topic to be able to address, is that even and she's a black woman, right so even um, you know, even how like when people when when people might you think they might be representing your interests, Um, when they get to be in these positions, we have

to recognize that they are not necessarily for the people. Yeah, we we had this in Chicago too with lightfoot, just like for selected and that immediately, like do you start putting stops in the subways and swat teams are shooting

people and disaster. Yeah, And I would just add to that, like this is like in terms of like the question about the coalition and how these organizers and how these organizations came together, It's it's been a little it's it's been really interesting because there's, like, like Jamal said, there's been so many groups that have come from all of these different interests, whether it's environmental or abolitionists or UM talking about um, you know, reimagining public safety and divesting

resources from policing. You have all these people from all these different groups, and UM there was like there there have been like different coalitions and different groups of people working together and like co sponsoring each other on events. And I have just seen that number grow so rapidly and just and I think that comes from a fundamental understanding that we're not fighting different fights. All of this

is intertwined. This is environmental justice is intersectional to racial justice, which is inter sectional to economic justice, which is just all indicative of, you know, the fight against unfettered greed

and exploitation and all of these things. So I think that and I would say that to an extent, there are more like quote unquote like moderate groups that I've seen, like do things, or there have been groups who's kind of whose hands have been tied a little bit and kind of have been approaching the issue through an environmental angle only to kind of avoid talking about polarizing topics

like policing. But um, I think that hopefully by having coalitions like this one and by having conversations like this one, we are getting people closer and closer to the understanding that these are intersectional issues. These are issues that we should all tackle together and in the future when stuff like this happens. We're so much stronger when we work together.

Like I can list like fifteen or twenty different organizations off the top of my head who are involved in this fight in some way, and that wouldn't be possible it was just the abolitionists or just being our mentalist. Because it's it all ties together and as we do this, as we're in this process, we learn from each other

and learned that these things are true. I wasn't and I wasn't the like most well burst on gentrification and how it works in the city of Atlanta because I just moved here pretty recently, and like being able to have these conversations and going out and canvassing and talking to people and seeing what the streets look like and seeing what different districts look like has like vactually expanded my own knowledge of how all of this works, and it's made me like it's it's made me a better

organizer and a more caring community member. So it's been really cool to see all these people from all these different backgrounds come together. And I think that, yeah, it's just been really great. Yeah, because the effort to the effort to save the forest um and prevent the construction of the facility, because it is such a coalition effort.

It's it's multiple groups working together. How How is how is the process of taking multiple organizations and having them all work together on the same project, Because I know that can in my experience watching this happen in other cities that can be very difficult as getting different organizations to work together. Um how how How? How have how have people managed to to take all these different different organizations with different backgrounds and get them to team up

for this shared cause? Um? I think it has been difficult and there have been a lot of lessons and experiences here because I mean, um community movement builders for example, And while you can speak to this much better than

I can. Is a Black lead Black Front group that operates in Atlanta, and there are other groups and other people who are working on this who maybe aren't as well versed as we need to be, And honestly, an element of that is learning from each other and learning to respect like who should be speaking on these issues and when they should be speaking on these issues, and

what role each of us has to play. Um. I think one thing that I would have liked to see more is including, you know, the lower my scope Creep tribe in indigenous groups in this effort a little bit more. And I know, like we've been moving on like what a hell of a timeline, and it's been development after development.

But I think that just like when we work in coalition and we work on groups who have different theories of change, when we work on groups have different ideologies in different ways that they approach things, it's a really good chance for those groups to kind of come together and do what they do best, play to their strengths, but also challenge their own ideologies and their own perceptions of the world. And I've seen a lot of that

in this space. And I feel like Jamal can speak to this really well too, probably better than I can in some places. No, I'll just say plus one to all of that. UM. I think that it's definitely learning curve UM and any kind of coalition working working with other organizations is definitely learning curve UM, and we are learning from each other to be able to build. But

I think it's also important that UM. Having that coalition is important because we pull from even from like we talked about public input, right or we talked about a rally that we're having, We're pulling from several different communities. We're pulling from several different areas of people who have different interests, who can all make the event, the central event,

that much better than that much stronger. So we can make so we can push, for example, a postponement of the vote for three weeks, which has been unprecedented in Atlanta, particularly for something that has to do with policing, right UM. So I think that there was lessons learned within coalition building UM that are always going to be challenges. But I think the other and I think that what we also learned is that it's important that you know, we come into this work in the particular lane of this

work right. UM. You know, community builders might have had particular I have a lot of experience working with UM anti police violence, right, UM, we don't have a whole lot of experience with environmental justice or environmental UM issues or advocacy UM in that same type of way, So we might not be tapped in or even equipped to

be able to have those types of conversations with people. UM. But we also know, but we're also a place based organization in the area, so that we also have a lot of experience talking to people in our community, knowing to the issues that are in our community and being able to uh make folks or have folks be aware

of what's going on that affects their lives. So like, a lot of this I think is also people bringing in that information UM for lack of a better term, staying in their lane for what it is, at their expertise is so that they can contribute their expertise to uh the coalition to be able to keep on building that out right, Yeah, what has the fight looked like so far? Like, well, what kind of organizing has been done with this goal in mind the past few months

or even longer. A lot of things actually, UM, we are doing a lot of things this weekend. In particular, UM CMB is holding a rally in front of Coca Cola headquarters on Friday. Sunrise is doing a people's march UM on Freedom Park Trail UM just to kind of attract pedestrian attention. There are going to be banner drops around the city and the art has played a critical role in all of this work. UM Metro Atlanta ds A has been running canvases every weekend for the last

three months. UM we held phone banks. We held UM a really powerful people's town hall where basically we actually invited people up to the mic and UM said, you have two minutes tell us what your opinion is on cop city and your community and how you feel about it. Because city Council, the APF they're not doing it, so we're going to give you the space to do that.

And that was live streamed and made available. UM. We had UM the Spanish speaking community participated through an organization called bod latin X, who did a bilingual panel with captioning to kind of educate folks on the issue. So a lot of it has just been going and just physically talking to people, having conversations and then just taking action in all these really powerful ways, and a lot

of that is culminating, I feel this weekend. But yeah, absolutely, and I think all of that has been like the main focus of all of this, and all of that has been built off of just talking to people. At the end of the day, organizing to me is recognizing power structures talking but building people power and building uh

uh ways for bringing the fight back to the masses. Right. Um. So even like right before this call, uh CMB was out flying UM at modest stations at the UM, the au c UM and other locations to make sure that people are aware that like this is happening. Um. And because that's the other thing, A lot of people, UM, A lot more people know about it now, but particularly

when it first was coming out in the end. UM even now some people don't aren't even aware of what's going on, but um, like it's been their biggest defense has been uh people not knowing about this, about this ordinance trying to be passed and trying to do it in under the veil of darkness. And the more we're able to expose them, the more we're able to get it, the higher likelihood we are able to stop it, um

and so um. I think, yeah, it's extremely important that when we're when we're talking about any type of organizing, we have to bring it back to the people and making sure that we're uh, you know, you know, really living up to the words like all power to the people. Have you seen any effects so far from the order? I know it's it's always difficult to gauge the effectiveness of any activistsm Um, but have have you seen any

changes either? And like I know you mentioned like perception and then people being aware of this project, but have you seen anything else happen um, whether on like whether you know through the like legislative process or just through like coverage. Yeah, Like what what's going to get? So far? The major the major win is the is the postponement in the vote, Like this was supposed to be voted

and passed. It was going to be passed three weeks ago, right and for for them to delay it and frankly they even said it they delayed it because they were like, we're getting too much negative pressure. We want to get

we want to do more public opinion. Basically, they want to put more propaganda out there for the police, um, and try to have another vote when we think that we can get more people on our side, because this is an election season for Atlanta too, so a lot of them might worry about their seats and they know that we made a lot of noise about it, and then we've got a lot of news coverage about it.

We've got a lot of people talking about this, and so at this stage they're afraid that, you know, they couldn't do this under the little darkness, and so now people know about it in our upset about it. So I think that in of itself, that's again, this is the first time this is and this has happened in the city of Atlanta um period where the city Council has been scared based off of community based organizing, particularly when it has to come to anything that has to

do with policing. Atlanta is the most surveiled city in the country right um our police force. People talk about it being the Black Mecca. People talk about it being, you know, a black haven for a black Hollywood, a black haven for black folks. It is the most surveiled place in the in the in the country and city in the country. And it's also and we are nowhere close to being a stranger to police brutality and police killings. UM,

and we've seen that. UM. You know, I can name a list of names just like uh that you know have been murdered by the police just in the past three years. Right, So yeah, I think that, I mean, I think an organizer joker, an organizer question at this point where people who have been working on this is like where were you August sixteenth? Where were you? And it happened when the vote was actually pushed because that

demonstrated a huge win for the people. It was like, you know, organizers in Atlanta and this community and this like these outcries and these like just these conversations and this this anger at all culminated in this beautiful moment where they said, like we can't pass this right now,

like we just actually can't do it. For me, I was at a book club meeting and I saw on Twitter and my brain was fuzzy for the next hour because that that had never happened before and it was just it was beautiful and yeah, and just like having

these conversations is just another like impact. The story went national. Um, there was an article for The Intercept having conversations like this one and just like and just being able to tie this to like, like I've said a few times during this during this conversation, just that that culture of that culture that that like okayness with extraction and exploitation

of land and resources and people. And being able to take this story national and take this story to other places and say like, this is what happens in communities, look into your own and see if it's happening there. Like that is so inspiring that that's what builds movements.

So that was a really powerful one. Yeah, I think something like having having that result is incredibly rare for something like this, right, Like that is that's not something that happens often, and that should be celebrated based on what what you've been able to do so far. Um, what is the fighting look like going forward in the next and the next few weeks? Um? Is there a date that they're planning to vote again already or is

that still kind of up in the air. Yeah, so they're voting in on Tuesday, right, So, Um, that's why you know, we're still fighting all the way up till the end. Um. I think that at the end of the day, Um, we have to recognize that, uh, you know, pressure Campaigns like this are important. We have to be able to do them, but we also have to be able to put our bodies on the line to be able to just if if the city council, because again,

this isn't up to a vote of the people. This is a vote of corporate interests that are in city council members who are tied to corporate interests, so they ultimately can still vote even the people for it, even if the people don't want this to happen, right, And so I think it also has to be even after the vote that fight does. Let's say, if it does pass, right, we're hoping that doesn't, But if it does pass, that

means that the fight doesn't end at that point. That means that are that that the onus is then on the people for us to organize even more because that means we mean bodies on the line. That means that we have to be able to physically say you're not building this ship period um. And that's the next step in the campaign. I'm speaking, this is speaking for you know,

myself at this point. I can't speak for the whole coalition on this on this pace, but I think of us are in the same are on the same boat that like, after this vote, we still are in this fight, whether whatever they regardless of what the outcome is. And there's a lot of different avenues in terms of like direct action and land offense and working more with indigenous communities on the issue, and lawsuits on the environmental angle, and even just the city council angle of just voting

out everybody who voted yes. And there's there's a lot of different ways to take action after this. It just depends on the results of the vote that is happening on Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, that will be. Yeah, that's it's it's as you guys said that it was going to be, uh a very serious turning point in figuring out what

to do next. Um let's let's for a change, let's be optimistic as just a fun practice that might us What if um magically were not not magically because you put a lot of a lot of hard work, but like what if they um do vote no and the and they and they don't, they don't build this projects? Do you see any future for like the coalition, like like like having having all these groups work together. Do you see you taking up any other kind of projects?

Because like you know, getting a network like this is very UM, it's very useful and unique, UM and as you know, at times, at times very difficult. Do you see any other kind of organizing potential for having this

interconnected kind of group of people. I honestly can't see a world where we don't continue to have these conversations and we don't continue to work together, and we don't continue to tap into this like beautiful system of collective care because honestly, we've it's felt like rushing to the finish for the last three months. But like after we're like focused on a particular campaign or particular issue, there's

gonna be other things to worry about. But also I'm really hoping personally that we're going to be able to take some time to slow down and process and have conversation aations to talk about what just supporting each other actually mean, what just supporting people in like a localized,

substantive intersectional manner actually look like. So my hope and my wish and my UM goal is is absolutely yes, UM, I hope that will continue to work together and in lots of different ways, on lots of different projects, because we don't really know what what at least for Sunrise. We don't really know what we're going to focus on next, but um, there's definitely a lot of work to do.

And I think just like what's really been powerful about this many people coming together and this demonstration of people power is that we're starting to shift the narrative, the narrative that protection and um control equal safety and understanding what safety actually means. And it's not just Sunrise and Community with It builders in d s A and like

a couple of environmental groups. It's groups that have been doing mutual aid work, groups that have been um directly on the ground, like and and groups that have been you know, working and fighting in in all of these like tangible ways to just get people access to food and water and transportation and the things that we actually need.

So I think that in terms of like actually shifting the narrative and diverting resources to where they need to be diverted, coalitions are a powerful tool, and I hope we'll continue to use them. Yeah. Second to to all that, I mean, I think that while we each have our respective work, and I speak for CNB, we are Black Radical Organization is dedicated to the Liberated Zone theory. Right now are our focus is organizing within the Pittsburgh neighborhood

of Atlanta. But even as you can see with this issue right with Cops City, Um, you know, Cops City isn't necessarily in the neighborhood of Pittsburgh, but it was the same ap D officers that killed Rashard Brooks in our neighborhood last year. Right, So these all issues are fall under the umbrella of capitalism and racial capitalism with

affects all of us. So when it comes to these types of issues, we have to work in coalitions because that's what's going to be able to make us be that much stronger because we all are affected by these uh, these these intersectional systems. So UM, I definitely think that, Um, you know, while it might not be on every single project that we work on with each other on because we all have our specialties in our our niches of

areas of work. UM, when it comes to intersectional issues like this that are big, there are that affect all of us in different ways. UM I could definitely, I definitely as being able to work within coalitions and continuing that momentum and work that we've built off with this cops of the effort. Is there anything you want to say to people who are outside of Atlanta anyway they

can show support. UM. I think one thing that I can add that maybe is a little bit more generalized, is, UM, I know that there's a lot of fear right now, and there's a lot of anger right now, and there's a lot of hurt right now, and it feels like our rights are being attacked on every front with you know O we weight in Texas and issues like cop City and militarization and expansion of policing in the eviction moratorium and all of these things. And I know that

it can seem very daunting. And I guess my my thing that I want to say to people is this is not the time to disengage. Everybody who supports and seeks to promote and who is protected by the status quo wants you to disengage, don't do it. Come fight with us in your community, in our community, anywhere we need you. Yeah. Absolutely, I will double down on that point to say, Yeah, we could say that again and again that it's a point that always needs to be reiterated,

reiterated more often. Yeah, is there any is there any place UM people can do any financial support from from far away that people can assist either through legal funds or various other means. Yes, so I've do a few I don't know communit movement bilities. We have a donate page if fuel to our website Community Movement Builders dot org. There's a donate tab you can donate directly through there.

You can also donate to our cash up cash app that's Dollar Signs cmb O, r G c mb org UM, but also Atlanta Bail Fund is also is always an important resource UM if folks are taking arrest of different

direct actions in different protests UM. I've had several comrades who have gone to who have who have taken the rest for very variety for a variety of actions, and we do rely on that as a source for us to be able to make sure that we're still you know, able to UM, you know, live and breathe and survive another day in this capitalist, at racist as UM country

that we live within. I want to plug UM donating to and supporting the Atlanta Homeless Union UM, which formed this summer and has been doing an incredible credical work UM. I also want to plug mainline Zene on Instagram and Twitter, and UH they have been critical in UM actual like anti fascist news coverage and just kind of telling the truth on a lot of these issues. Fantastic and I want to thank thank thank you too so much for uh coming on to talk about UM what what what

you'll have been working on UM. Yeah, it's it's very important. I'm happy that more people can know about it UM in the future and thinking thinking less optimistic if if they do vote to continue UM. I'm hoping that we can UM get some people down to Atlanta to help with whatever direct action organizing is going to be is going to be happening to to to prevent this UM physically. So yeah, I mean there's no matter the result, there's always going to be more struggle. There's always going to

be more stuff to do. UM. Yeah. And just thank thank you guys for talking about this absolutely, thank you for having this on. And with that that wraps up our talk with the wonderful folks from the Defend the Atlanta Forest Coalition. UH. They had their plugs there that you can I recommend you following UM if you want to keep track on the movement specifically and what's going on. You can also check out their social media's. You can

check Defend a t L Forest on Twitter. Can also check out the community Movement Builders at Community m v T on Twitter, and you can find Sunrise Atlanta at Sunrise m v m T a t L. So that is the discussion. Stay tuned for more news on the Atlanta forest and the cop City Project will be covering this in the next few you know, in the next few episodes, probably in the next few weeks, and if they vote yes to continue with I'm sure we'll be

reporting there in person at some point. Thanks for listening, and we have three yesh more episodes coming up this week, so stay tuned for that. Goodbye. It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen here, updated

monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.