Crisis Pregnancy Centers are Evil

Can you can tell professionals? Yeah? But speak speaking of professionals, we have we have Karina Domingus with us, who is in fact actually a professional and has spent eight years working in reproductive health issues of Karina. Welcome to the show, and thank you for joining us. Thank you, thank you for having me. It's lovely to have you on, Karina. What's uh, what's going on? How are thanks? Things? Things are okay? I think I can say that doesn't seem true, Yeah,

but they're okay. Um, yeah, okay. I pulled out of a crash truck once and as I was trying to like staunch the bleeding from a cut in his hand, I asked how he was and he said, okay, So I'm guessing it's that kind of Okay, you nailed it. Yeah, Karina, do you wanna tell us a little bit about your background and the work that you do and you know why why why? We We just really wanted to have you on the show. Yeah, I would love too. So again, my name is Karna Dominguez. I am from Chicago born

and raised. UM. I've worked in reproductive health for about eight years, but really what I consider about fifteen years or so. UM. I have experience in working in the community and different capacities. UM. I love reproductive health. I'd consider myself a reproductive health nerd UM. And it all started when I was a teenager growing up in Chicago, where just in the city life, you see a lot

of things that don't really sit well with you. UM. I knew a lot of young girls who were getting pregnant at young ages, experiencing trauma and specifically sexual trauma UM and not knowing who to go to or where to go. So these were mostly young girls of color who I cared for a lot. And I immediately knew that I wanted to do more activism and that I needed to do more activism. And the way my activism

looks is through my education. So today I have a master's in Public Health UM and I also have a bachelor's in public health, and with that education, I've been able to provide sexual and reproductive health counseling. I practiced as a full spectrum dou LA where I have provided abortion care for people and also UM provided birthing care

for people as well. I led a pregnant parenting program at a nonprofit for youth experiencing homelessness, and right now I currently manage a sexual and Reproductive health grant where we provide resources to treatment centers in the l A area to integrate sexual and reproductive health for patients and substance use disorder treatment. Cool. So we are slacking, Yeah, I think the thank you that made us want to

chat with you. We were having a conversation show when the news first dropped that the Supreme Court was yeating Roe v. Wade into the sun UM. There were a couple of different news agencies that did like intern you know, while talking about what options we're going to remain for people, that would bring up crisis pregnancy centers, which are UM shady as hell. As I'm sure we're about to talk about.

But yeah, so that's that's kind of why we brought you into what we brought you one initially to talk about. I wonder do you want to kind of introduce folks to what those are, because the gist of it is, if you like Google, how do I like find out if I'm pregnant or like you know, I'm pregnant and I need help, There's a good chance old Google will take you to one of these places, and they are,

shall we say not what they seem to be? Yes, I think we can exactly say that, um and I am just going to say it in the most direct way I possibly could. A crisis pregnancy center is essentially a fake medical facility that prays on vulnerable people, specifically people who can become pregnant. So yeah, you know, we can use the term fake medical clinic, um I for the purpose just of using the most common term crisis

pregnancy center, I'm going to stick to using that term. Um. But yes, there are a lot of concerns about this, and I'm sure our friend Google will pop them up for us really quick. Um. So, crisis pregnancy centers usually have names like Women's Pregnancy center or women's health center. Something health center UM, and it's a very misleading advertisement. So they are anti abortion facilities that manipulate people into

having a full term pregnancy. So these places are usually religious oriented, They have a religious agenda and it's not patient lad. So some of these larger religious based organizations that fund these what we think are smaller tiny clinics are agencies or organizations like care Net, Heartbeat International, National Institute of Family and Life, Birthright International, and RAMA International.

So a lot of times you might think you're going to the small, little tiny clinic or maybe it's even like a community medical mobile unit, and it turns out there backed by big money and bigger agencies. So they typically will implant themselves in communities of color, um, near college campuses and low income neighborhoods. So what is that saying. That's saying that this is a woman's issue, this is a trans issue, this is an lgbt q I A issue, this is a bipoc issue, Black Indigenous people of color,

and it's simply just an issue for everyone. Yeah, And it's so one of the things that's kind of messy about these places is that if you look at like investigations into how they work, you'll run into a number of stories of women who are like, hey, I actually like always intended to go through with my pregnancy. I just needed to like know that number one, know that I was pregnant. I needed to test or something, and

these people advertised they would provide that for free. The advertise that they were providing stuff like diapers, you know, basic kind of supplies, formula for free, um. And some of them do, most of them due to some extent, but nearly all of them have some sort of like and this is outside of kind of the abortion aspect, access of it, have some sort of fucked up hoops you have to jump through in order to actually get access to any of that stuff. Absolutely, yeah, I'm really

glad that you brought up, like the diaper point. I think that is a really essential thing because they don't not give out stuff, right, but it's it's messier than

they want to portray it as. Yeah, yeah, totally. And and to form of manipulation, right, And I think too, it's a form of manipulation too, to deem yourself a full functioning medical facility where they actually don't provide those comprehensive services and sometimes you know, they might even stay on the outside like HIV testing, s I v M, STI testing, HIV testing, UM and they're simply not evidence based practices. So what I mean by an evidence evidence

based practice is something like condom use. We know very well at this day and age that condoms are essential to prevent s t I S and HIV transmission. So a lot of these clinics they might even say like, condoms don't decrease your chances of s t I S,

they don't really matter. They're not really doing anything. And that is a really big piece of information that we need to know as the average person, because that means we have a lot of young people going to these clinics and having even their foundational sexual health education at these facilities. So this is a really really important thing to take note of. UM And I would say that you know a lot of people even in my life,

that have gone to crisis pregnancy centers by accident. Um are you know, being told that they can do STI testing, HIV testing, and even birth control and then as soon as you go there, you realize that's not what's happening. Usually it's going to be a lot of pregnancy related services like ultrasounds and pregnancy tests, which we know if you're an actual clinic that's those aren't the only things

that someone would need for essential health care. But I would say even more like going into the manipulation and um, the gas lighting that they do within these facilities, which in my eyes is medical violence. UM. They provide even mandatory ultrasounds, make someone sit there to look at the ultrasound.

They make fearful videos of misleading information about what abortions are, and sometimes even have someone who is not a medical provider showing what an abortion is in their eyes, and the video maybe of a baby that's whose limbs are being ripped apart um, even giving information like abortions can lead to breast cancer, or if you have abortion, you'll never be able to have a child, and this is

your one and only opportunity UM. And sometimes even going further, you know they are sneaky and what they do, because they might even have programs that will say parent program UM or youth sexual health program and even with that, they're giving religious based agendas UM, and they are telling people misinformation about sexual health and even so might even talk about UM very heterosexual sex marriage. All of the above, So there is a very specific agenda that is going

on here. Um. And we know too that a lot of these agencies can be really sneaky with what they're doing because they may even deny they are a crisis pregnancy center, and even further, if you go onto their website, they might not even have any language that they're religious based or that they are, um, not providing comprehensive services. So there are a lot of different tactics that are you know, within the manipulate manipulative strategies that they use. Yeah.

One of the things I've heard a lot about is like basically like not not literally physically forcing but like terrorizing people into signing like fake legal documents saying they won't get an abortion, which like really like every description I've heard about that, it is just like this is just terrorism. That's absolutely um. Yeah, And I find that to be really interesting. I have never heard of that happening. But just because I haven't specifically heard of that does

not mean it's not happening. Um. And I think that you know, there, they're not all made the same, um. They all function differently, And I think that's also what is really confusing about them because they're not consistently all doing the same thing. There are still other facilities that they might do STI testing, they might do HIV testing, and so to hear that is not shocking to me. Um And the manipulative tactics that they are using for people and yeah, I mean hip book goes out the door.

You know, any legal backing goes out the door with these facilities because they are not based on providing patient led services in the first place. Maybe this is an ignorant, ignorant train of thought, but if they're providing all of these like free ish services or like whatever to these people that are desperate and um, it sounds like a lot of them are like privately funded by these organizations,

and the shadows like what how do they benefit? Like where like what is there other than like imposing religiou and other people, but like like financially and like I'm confused, where how they're still able to function? Yes, they function very well and without a problem. Um And as I mentioned, there's you know, five larger organizations that are funding a lot of these CPCs, but they are also um this is to be noted. They are on the CDC website, they are on the CDC directory as places that provide

essential services. So I think that also goes to speak to the confusion around CPCs. And I'm just gonna go out in the limb and say I'm going to give the CDC benefit of the doubt although they do not deserve that, and say that, um, they themselves may not recognize what what these agencies are doing. And so I think that's where the awareness around the actual function of the CPCs and how they even exist in the first place needs to be shut down. And awareness needs to

be brought about these places. And and we know that thirteen of them are funded by their states, so they are getting direct government money to be able to function and then on top of that also functioning with the backing of their larger organizations. Wow, are they getting federal funding too? Like I have some vague memories of like Bush administration programs that we're funding. Just I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Trump pushed a bunch of federal funds

towards these facilities. Yes, yeah, I wonder, Sorry, ahead, go ahead. I was just I was wondering, like I wonder if there's a um like one or two things you need to qualify as like a what's what how did you put it on the website? CDC uh um like they offer like services, like maybe it's like, oh, this place has an ultrasound. These are like this is why this

is on, you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if they just like pick and choose the bare minimum of things to like qualify to be UM considered among like people that offer like full fledged care. But I don't know what it's all scam, I don't Yeah, And I mean I think that also is just a really UM.

I like that you bring that up, because I think that would be a really ignorant perspective from the CDC to think that a place that gives a pregnancy test or an ultrasound right away is not necessarily your average healthcare setting. UM. When someone is going into an appointment, typically you know they're not getting an ultrasound right away. Typically you're average person whom I think they're pregnant is going into a medical facility, is going to do a

pregnancy test. Sure, but they're not just gonna immediately the first twenty minutes you're there do an ultrasound. UM. And especially knowing our healthcare system and the United States. You know that might require referrals and another facility to get that done, and you know that depends on what your insurances and what you can pay for and etcetera, etcetera. But I think it's a really big red flag to just have a facility that has pregnancy tests and ultrasounds.

That to me is, you know, if I see on a website that those are the only two services that healthcare clinic is claiming to provide, I'm running away and I'm not going there because that's very odd. Well, it's it's very manipulative, because it's it's one of those things.

One of the ways in which you can tell is something healthcare related shady as fuck is does it take advantage of the fact that very basic things that you need are extremely expensive um, And like ultrasounds, pregnancy tests, this can all be like STD tests, you know, can all be really really pricey um. And it's just so like it's fucked up that this is kind of how they're funneling religious dollars towards taking advantage of the fact that a lot of people, like legitimately some people who

use these facilities. I don't know what else to tell them. Because it's like, well, we don't provide people with a lot of options in this country everywhere, you know, for for some of these services. Yeah, totally. And I do want to go into some of the people doing work and I want to really highlight what they're doing. UM. So I want to give the utmost credit to two people, UM who I do not know personally but would definitely love to UM Dr Andreas Warton Rubber and Dr Danielle Lambert.

They're both associate professors at the School of Public Health at University of Georgia and they're both co founders of the CPC Maps, which originated in two thousand and eighteen. So yes, there's a brilliant map where you can search these CPCs that are close to you. UM. And in my eyes, this map is truly a piece of gold because I myself have found ones that are in my area UM and was very beneficial when I was working with clients myself directly and would refer people to different services.

So this is a really great tool for healthcare professionals and social service workers, et cetera to refer to UM. And I can't even explain how grateful I am to know that there's ongoing research about the distraught impact of these clinics and the distraught impact they have on our health care system and the ability to find an abortion provider. UM. So again I hope that every service provider can find these this map, UM and use this map and really

spread awareness around this. So. UM, what I want to highlight and what these two doctors have found is that just to give some more context, every single state has multiple CPCs, multiple not just one, not to multiple there are CPCs and throughout the United States, and that is obviously a much larger number than the health departments in

the United States. And you know, as I mentioned, we know the CDC directory utilizes CPCs on their website and again thirteen states are funded or are funding CPCs UM. So their advertisements are going far and wide. UM. And to even go further, in the state of California, the California Woman's Law Center says that there are more CPCs then there are abortion clinics. So I think in this time, yeah, yeah,

we should be scared. That is really that's a really concerning statistic, and especially looking at how we are going to be and already are a haven state, we are going to be a haven state for all the states around US and for people throughout the United States. So what is that saying when we are a haven state, yet we are still competing with our local anti abortion strategies ourselves, we are still putting up a fight as

a haven state, and I think that is so concerning. UM. And even further, just to give some more statistics, we know that of the clinics that CPCs that did not offer SCI testing also will not refer out. We know that eight offer HIV testing and that did not offer

HIV testing also did not refer out. So just to summarize those numbers for you, what that data is telling me is that these clinics are not accounting for the health of the pregnant person, nor are the accounting for the health of the fetus if that pregnancy goes full term. And yeah, I mean I have even you know, more stats as you know your reproductive health nerd um of one of my favorite research institutes called the gut Mocker Institute, and they are phenomenal and have really great data UM.

And if you haven't checked out their website, you definitely should. UM. But since we're on the bandwagon of talking about religious based affiliations. We know that seventeen percent of abortion patients are oh sorry, um okay um. Seventeen percent of abortion patients identify five themselves as mainline Protestant, as Evangelical Protestant, and percent is Catholic. Thirty eight percent have no religious affiliation, and the remaining eight percent reported a different religious affiliation.

So let's summarize that religiously affiliated people are still seeking abortions too. Would you look at that ignorance is so bliss. We know that abortions are affecting people who are living in poverty and who are low income. So we know of people that are seeking abortions are either living in

poverty or our low income UM. And fortunately you know, throughout the past, we know that Medicaid has been a really big funder of abortion care UM, and especially we can say that in California too, UM, that about of abortion patients are using Medicaid, and that's throughout fifteen different states. So I imagine in this time right now too, that

number is probably going to decrease. UM. So again talking about haven state that has these resources, we are probably going to be mixing up how that looks UM and knowing that fifty three percent of abortion patients pay out of pocket for their procedures is already a very concerning statistic. And so we are seeing how in our time right now, we have to be looking at different resources for people.

We have to put on our activist hats, we have to be supporting our community, and we have to be supporting abortion funds because already fifty three percent of abortions are paid out of pocket. Um. And just to to summarize one more point eight percent of people who are using abortion services are going to be using those within the first twelve weeks. So um, we are eating to see a lot of activism around abortion pill distribution and

abortion pill education and what that looks like. No, the to like piggyback off of what Robert was mentioning earlier about how it just feels like they're taking advantage of the fact that, like things cost so much money. And I feel like, if you this work is so important because I don't think a lot of people know what

they're getting into. If they're like, because we don't have a great education system in general, let alone about like reproductive health or like what happens when you get pregnant. So if you're a young person or any age and you are desperate or you're feeling shame and you don't have support from your community or something, and you see an institution that's like free ultrasound or like whatever, it's

like they're praying on this desperation. And I think one of the only things you can do to combat that is like trying to educate people as much as possible that like, I don't know, people are as um they don't have the good will and good faith that they present to be to have and I guess it just like ultimately you have to be distrusting of people. And maybe that's sad, but it's the truth. Yeah, definitely, And I will say I feel like I saw that as

a service provider. Um So, as I mentioned, I worked in homeless services, specifically with youth homeless services, and you see that so much. You see how there is, you know, medical oppression for people of color. There is medical manipulation

and violence for so many people in vulnerable situations. And as someone that has accompanied many people to abortions and births, I have observed that myself and I have seen how so more people than not are going to experience some type of medical manipulation, and especially if you are living in poverty ESPEC. Actually if you're a person of color, especially if you're lgbt q i A. This this issue

does not just stop, you know, with CPCs. If we take out all the CPCs, we also have to address so much of the institutional institutionalized racism and all the things that exist around reproductive health UM, you know, starting at how to get contraceptives too, when can you have children and how can you be a parent, and that never ends throughout the cycle, you know, and that parents even after they have babies, even if they are a person of color, even if they are lgbt q A,

you know, they are still told how, when, where they're going to parent UM. And there's so much control over that rhetoric for people. So you know, I mean that even goes back to me thinking about the sterilization trials that happened against USC in the seventies and how women were forcibly sterilized, and you know that has nothing to do with CPCs. But instead we're seeing that institutions are finding this control and having these agendas, and it is

not serving our society. It is not serving our health and instead it is creating more trauma in our communities and it's it's crisis. Pregnancy centers are just one of many layers of medical oppression that we are witnessing in today's world. As a person who was working in homeless services, I was program planning for a lot of the resources that we were able to provide access to for my clients.

So all of my clients at that time when I was running the Pregnant Parenting program at a nonprofit, they were either pregnant and or parenting while also experiencing their housing and security these UM, so I strived to find what the proper resources were for them to support them in every trauma informed way I possibly could, and that

were youth friendly. So there was a local agency that was very very close to where I worked UM and their services always kind of felt like limited to me, So I met with them specifically to enquire because they were always trying to find some type of partnership with us and would knock on our door or call me. So I finally was able to give them some of my time UM and so their services always felt limited and non comprehensive, and I think that is the biggest

kind of like takeaway. UM. They always gave me really weird reasoning why they didn't provide birth control or STI testing, and based on their answer, as I mentioned, I just did not allow the partnership to thrive. So when I did more research, I actually confirmed from another service provider that there from another agency that they were indeed a CPC before I could spread the word. They also already had several partnerships with other homeless service providers, so they

wiggled their way in UM. And these other homeless service providers were also working with young vulnerable clients. So one day I was actually invited by another agency to come to this presentation where I didn't realize happened to be the CPC. UM. The CPC was presenting at this organization and it was one of their outreach workers explaining what

their services were. So I took it upon myself to make sure that I sat in that meeting and I asked questions in the room with the other service providers. I think they're about thirty other service providers that were present, and I asked out loud, why doesn't your clinic provide birth control? And the woman from the CPC, who was the outreach worker said, we can't give paps mirrors, so

we're unable to provide birth control. If you know anything side note if you know, yeah, I already see the questioning, which I'm glad I received that reaction, because that is the exact reaction audience, those of us with you, Uh, all of our heads tilted and our eyes squinting. Uh, exactly, please explain how that math doesn't work? Yeah, exactly. Side note for all the listeners, if you know anything about health care, you know that a paper is not associated

with being able to be prescribed birth control. So as someone that has background in healthcare, has a master's in public health, worked as a Duelah. I continue to push back during the presentation, and it was very very clear that I was onto something. Um. So this woman again, she would always try to come around, give me pamphlets, try to have us partner and say she really want to work with us in our youth. Um. She stopped after that presentation. I can tell you that. But anyway,

so I keep going. I reach out to a the person who organized that presentation for the CPC outreach person to attend and speak at. So I was like, I need to get to the bottom of this, and I need to spread this word UM and tell people, hey, you're getting people from CPCs to come and speak to you to advertise your services. UM. So I see SEED a lot of the other service providers, and I expressed my genuine concerns the lack of evidence based comprehensive care

they provided. But unfortunately, the person who I emailed said, clients need to make sure those decisions are their own, so they can decide if they want to go or if they don't want to go. We can't force them to say yes or no to go to a health care fassity. So I responded by asking, but what if you thought you were seeing a doctor for your health care needs and then it turns out the health care provider is providing misinformation and might not even be a

healthcare provider. UM. I never got a response from them, but I still continue to make sure that I was reaching out to everyone at that meeting and just raising awareness behind it. UM. And then I wanted to take it to UM. I wanted to take it a notch up. So I called both of this. Both of the locations of the CPC one is located in Westwood side note, next to u C. L A. The other one was

in South l A side note, community of Color. Both of my calls led me to the person on the phone telling me that they don't know where to send me for an abortion and that they didn't know what what Planned Parenthood was, what they did, or where they relocated when I specifically asked. So they were obviously circumventing the ability to even talk about abortions and what it was um and that was all the concern that I

genuinely needed. So in my present day, I'm still concerned with these clinics, this specific clinic that is local to me. I recently found out that in my present day work, there are currently three treatment centers that are using this

crisis pregnancy center as a resource. So hopefully that means more to come, because I will be working on this and in this scenario, what I am doing as an activist and as a person who cares for my community is I will be educating these treatment centers about what crisis pregnancy centers are and how they can avoid them and what comprehensive services actually look like. Have there been more sort of widespread like organizations who are working too like a let people know what they are and then

be also trying to get them like not to be funded. Absolutely, there are and we need to shout them out. UM. There are. There is an abortion fund UM in Cali, Fornia called Access. They are wonderful UM. They provide abortion advocacy and awareness and education and they also provide direct services UM and fund different They have fund abortions in different capacities, so they might be funding the abortion services,

the lodging, the transportation, and even a doula. And they partner with a lot of other agencies that are doing the work. The agency is called Reproductive Transparency Now and they are a Chicago based nonprofit. They provide a lot of information, data, awareness research UM to raise awareness around what CPCs are and why we should be avoiding them. And I think I can say that I have the same goal as them in my personal life, but to ensure that they do not exist and are all shut down. UM.

So they are wonderful. I would highly suggest looking into Reproductive Transparency Now and also Active Sorry Access Reproductive Justice UM who are doing a lot of really great work. And then I also do want to squeeze in other resources for people as well. Yeah. UM, And you know, as I mentioned first and foremost, I think the number one thing we need to know is that crisis pregnancy

centers should not exist in any capacity. UM. But if you are a person who's providing resources, who is working with clients, who works in healthcare treatment centers, wouldever it be please utilize Crisis Pregnancy Center map dot com. Again, this is the UM, the website that was created by two associate professors at University of Georgia, and I want to make sure that this spreads far and wide, UM, because is it will be the matter of providing referrals

and circumventing CPCs UM. And I want to acknowledge that a lot of my data from this, from the information that I've been speaking on, is from the Crisis Pregnancy Center Map dot com UM, and from Reproductive Transparency as well. UM. So first and foremost that map is a necessity. UM. Another resource that I would like to share to be able to find your state's abortion fund is abortion Funds dot org and you can search state by state, so

you know, I'm in California, so that's going to be access. Again, an organization that is an abortion fund, but they do more than than fund abortions. UM. I also really encourage people to find their local evidence based du lahs, midwives, women health practitioners near them. And I know that there's a lot of fear existing right now due to the inappropriate politicians that are making disgusting decisions, but know that abortion pills can be access and there are people that

can help guide you through UM. So I would say making sure that we are accessing the resources on a website called plan c pill dot com. It's a great resource where you can find where to purchase abortion pills and where to seek medical and legal support as well. So if you have a question about how to take medical abortion pills, or you need to understand the legality of your state and the area near you, you can

you can look on this website UM as a resource. UM. I just also want to emphasize like what community care looks like right now. UM. If you're a person who can get pregnant, this is truly a time to seek preventative care. And I know that that's a loaded can of worms for a lot of people. So I just I really want to plug this in if you would like to learn about pregnancy prevention you can take a

look at bedsider dot org to assess your needs. I would highly recommend pairing that with talking to a provider who understands your lifestyle and can support you with finding one that works best for you, because every single contraceptive is going to look a little different. If you're a person who does not like birth control, I want you to know to please still seek preventative methods UM, whether that's a barrier method or whether that's more so of

a holistic method like fertility awareness method. I encourage you to still speak to someone you can trust to ensure you're using that method correctly. And again there are duelas and midwives that can help guide you in the right direction for holistic practices UM. And to continue on to my community UH, my community kind of recognition. I hope that this is also time where if it's feasible for you too, if you can't yourself, find UM friends and family that you trust and people around you UM to

either receive yourself or to get it from other people. UM. Have pregnancy tests around you and make sure that if you feel like you might be pregnant UM, whether you are using an actual method or if you're not using a method currently, make sure you very least have pregnancy tests around you, UM, so that you know you can detect early on if you are pregnant. UM. Normalize buying

your friends pregnancy tests for their birthdays. I have. We just have to normalize that as a community, and normalize buying abortion pills in case someone you know might need them in the future, or it might be someone that you don't know who could use them. UM. And to

have that accessible if that is feasible for you financially. Um. And then yeah, I think just to summarize, like, this is truly a time for community support and when the government doesn't support us, we we need to figure out unfortunately how and um, if you got the ability, go get uh, go get go get snipped. Uh. You know there's there's options out there. UMS. Yeah, I provide vasectomies by the way, if you can just find me in my house. UM. I'm not good at it yet, but people,

I'm gonna I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna figure it out. For I got one of those I got one of those sharpening wheels, and my butter knives are pretty They've got a good edge. They got a good edge these days. It's genuinely incredibly disappointment disappointed, and you're not using the machete for this. This is this feels like a portrayal. Well, there's other reproductive healthcare I used the machete for, but that that that does have to

do with crisis pregnancy centers action. Well, I'll have a bunch of referrals for you then, I know, or to send them. That that kind of leans into another topic I'm covering today. Unfortunately. Um well, thank you so much for coming on and for talking to us. This has been very enlightening. Um I wish uh it wasn't such a bleak subject. But people need to know the fox going on. People needed to know this a lot earlier.

But you know, I mean, broadly speaking, the thing I keep coming back to in this whole fight is the frustration of like the rest of us, Like life is hard enough, There's like so much going on. People are like busy trying to trying to get by, trying to do their lives, trying to like find pieces of happiness

in the world. And there's this fucking group of the worst people in the country that have just made this made fucking access to reproductive healthcare up for everyone the focus of their entire life for thirty years, and unfortunately now we have to like do that make the opposite the focus of our lives because we kind of just not all of us obviously, like you've been in this fight for a while, but most of us kind of we're not paying as much attention as needed to be paid.

Um like most people in the end, I'm not trying to throw blame on folks, but like, clearly the majority of people in the country who support access to reproductive health care weren't paying enough attention, you know, Like that's the that's the only way to frame it totally. And it's almost as if we are picking up the mess that others are are creating. Um yeah. And you know, after experiencing COVID as a society, everyone's a public health professional now and a doctor. Um, so it's clearly, yeah,

I'm sending referrals to you, thank you. Um yeah. And people have a lot of things to say. And with that being said, I'm really glad that that these are conversations being had. It. I'm glad that friends around me now who I have never known to talk about reproductive health are going there and talking about it and also opening the door up for you know, people like me to talk about evidence based practices and what the reality is and and who's doing the work, and um, everything

that that focuses around reproductive health. So I I appreciate this conversation. I appreciate that there are podcasts discussing this information. It's necessary and these issues are not going anywhere, and you know, we're going a little backwards. So I really appreciate your time on this. Yeah, thank you for coming on the show. And UM, all right, everybody, that's the fucking episode, though, do something else. It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. Well more podcasts

from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.