Border Kindness and Mutual Aid Along the Border

the Mexico side. We have operated in a pro bono clinic on the Mexican side, and currently we're providing direct aid with the families of migrant farm workers in Imperial and Riverside Counties.

But I've been reporting on the border for that long and there certainly have been notable changes, And I wonder what changes you've seen, Like we go back to like pre twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, like that was for the whole wall Shenanigans and so like, do you guys want to describe what changes you've seen in patterns of migration and like I guess how safe that journey is or isn't, and how that's changed.

That's obviously still a large part of who is coming through, but in the most recent three to five years especially, the demographics are changing not just by country of origin to include all over the world and reflecting like this global migration crisis that's going on, but also the reasons and like the desperation is changing. So now it's not

just like economic migration. There is asylum seekers, refugees, and it is just changing in tone of like why they're migrating and in what ways they're migrating.

by bus, you know, sometimes by plane. However they can and we've seen, you know, we've seen like invoices for like hotel stays that people traveling from Turkey came and they stayed like in tang Kun for like a month. So like I mean, people are gone from their from their homelands. You know, longer amounts of time now that you know, isn't a comfortable thing. So it's not like you can relax and not like you can you know, rest and you know mentally and physically everything like that.

So it's definitely making that part harder for people crossing.

navigating the pitfalls of that. Yeah, it's it's becoming like a more and more difficult and I guess kind of complicated issue. But I think what's not particularly complicated is that, like, no one should have to walk across the desert without water,

right like that, it's pretty basic. So maybe we could go through what a water drop is, and like what just if we could walk through, like you know, how far you guys walk, what you're leaving at there, what you find that people take, what you find that they need in their journeys. And you were talking about the receipts. I found tons of those and plane tickets and stuff like the things that you find that help you understand how better to help people. I guess.

in some areas. But when it's cooler times and the temperatures are you know, below eighty degrees, you know we can hike you know anywhere up to I think the max that we did was like just about twenty. But on the average, you know, the cool weather hikes will do you know, know, right around ten miles or so.

And then when it gets hot and the desert gets really hot out there, you know, like over one hundred and ten degrees on a constant basis and starting to get over one hundred and twenty degrees, you know, we can maybe do about five miles by foot. We've kind of ran a trial and air this season as far as trying to push further to see how far we can go, and we attempted seven miles and that I mean we all were gassed right around the five mile mark.

So like we have to you know, set limits because not only is the distance, but the time spent underneath the sun without shade, and that exposure is you know what drives the internal body temperature up and everything like that. And if you don't have a chance to cool down, that's when your body starts to wear out. You get heat exhaustion, and you know, we want to avoid heat stroke at all costs, and we're trying to, you know,

make sure everyone's safety is accounted for. So we have to kind of cap that in the in the summertime to like five miles.

during these like incredibly hot months. But we leave supplies of water, food, and protective clothing, and the protective clothing varies depending on season. So I mean a lot of people don't really take into consideration how cold it gets in these areas. It gets wall below freezing in the winter in the mountains of Ea San Diego County, it snows. You know, some drops have gotten snowed out. We haven't been able to complete them because of the snow, and

so the protective clothing varies in the summer. It's things like bendan as, cooling towels, hats, socks we leave throughout the year, people's footwear not being appropriate almost almost always. Yeah, blister can be a deacent sentence out there. So if you get a blister and you're not able to keep up with your group, there's a really good chance that you're going to get left. So something like having dry socks to change into can very well save somebody's life.

So we leave socks throughout the year, pop top cans of food and of course water.

you know, when roads get shut down, we can't even access. So, as Jacqueline mentioned, you know, when it is cooler, we try to go as much as we can, as far as we can, to stockpile as much as possible for when the weather prohibits us from doing so.

it's a perilous place. That's why people don't live there as a rule, Like it's not a place that's kind to people. So I wonder like a lot of people, I know, we did a series on title forty two, spoke to a lot of people, and a lot of people reached out and they like they want to help,

and I understand that the border. I think for a lot of people it is like I think reporting on the borders as a rule is not great, like that we tend to see migrants as numbers and not as people a lot when when people report on the border, right, and that that's kind of it happens with with more liberal outlets as well as more right wing outlets. But I wonder, like, a how people who aren't in town, Like, if you're not in if you don't live in the border lands, right, it's so you live in the middle

of America, Like, how can they help? What can they do to kind of support the process that you're doing making this horrible thing a little kind.

be purchased, that sort of thing. So providing material aid is one way of contributing. And then aside from that, I think just following along with this work and sharing it and changing the conversation because, like as you said,

reporting on the border can be really tricky. People tend to not just utilize migrants, but utilize the border as a region in order to have talking points for either like media outlets or campaigns or that sort of thing, and the border gets treated as sort of like its own foreign area that's not related to either country, like nobody wants to responsibility for it. And you know, residents

of the United States also are complicit in that. And because they don't really they just talk about the border. They don't say, like, this is something that's happening in my country. So I think sharing and discussing and becoming informed of what's going on, and also feeling like that kinship and ownership of like, hey, this is happening. I mean for people, it doesn't have to be as far as like the middle of the country. A lot of people in San Diego don't et really engage in.

get used to. How like cruel our border infrastructure is and what it does for us, but people are just blown away every time. Absolutely, Yeah, but I think you're right, like witnessing it is very important, even if you know you can't done it financially, if you can't get down here.

don't don't see it, they'll live near it. So that's you know, something that most people rely on the media

and what they see on the nightly news. And you know even that, you know, the big media outlets don't take the most realistic or don't share the most realistic parts of the border, you know, only to you know, cater to their you know, their sponsors, or cater to their crowds, and so a lot of people will get like the headlines, but they don't get the real deal, like you know, what's going on down the border, and so sharing is is a big part of you know, how the word spreads about the work that we do

in other organizations as well.

like they shouldn't. It's horrible, but like it was kind of illiterative that I guess none of the are that none of the national outlets had someone who'd seen it, because the blades have been there for months where the prototype sat there they were in the twenty twenty solicitation to like it just seemed odd to me that someone had to tweet a video for them to like understand because like, obviously no one had walked up to it

and checked it out, which I don't know. I think it's hard to do border reporting in New York personally, But yes, you're you're interested in the northern border. So I wanted to ask about Title forty two because I think our listeners are pretty well informed on like what that was and what happened before and after that. So

did you guys notice when that came into effect? Just to recap, I guess for people, Title forty two allowed border patrol to bounce people straight back south without processing them and in nearly all cases without hearing that their claims were asylum if they had, and then those people were sometimes laterally translated across the border to a border town where they may not have had contacts or family or any resources, and it often resulted in those people

finding themselves in an even more difficult situation than they already were, or trying to cross in more difficult and dangerous places to avoid that. So, did you guys notice any changes like around and that came in what March of twenty twenty as soon as they could, as soon as they found an excuse in COVID.

and it wasn't something that we came across much. But after that went into effect in twenty twenty, we started running into a lot more people. We started seeing people that knew, you know, somewhat of you know, the policy, and that people would try multiple times every day to you know, cross through, and if they got apprehended and got you know, taken into Mexico, they tried again that same day. And so we noticed a lot more of our supplies being used, a lot more foot traffic, and

a lot more you know interactions with us. We started seeing a lot more interactions with you know, board patrol and people crossing through. And so when the policy was coming to an end, the only thing that we really saw increase was the amount of people trying to get in before you know, quote unquote got closed off, you know, before like the bands would go into effect, and you know, like the no you know, you can re enter for a you know a certain amount of years and all

that kind of stuff. So like the camp in Hkomba, you know, you see you know, thousands of people showing up as that you know stopped, as Top forty two stopped. We really can't notice too much yet that less people are crossing through compared to the beginning the middle of the policy. Our supplies are still being used at a high rate. Still see a fair amount of traffic come through, you know, these these corridors and everything like that. So

it's kind of hard on our end. But you know, we also know that people who do cross not at a port of entry by foot, whether it's over a fence, whether it's around a fence, whether it's through the desert, over the hills. We know that people are still being

apprehended processed and released with their asylum claims. So it's hard, as you know, on the board to know exactly what's going on because a policy can say one thing, yeah, it doesn't matter exactly, like the residential administration can say one thing, the DHS can say one thing, and completely different is happening, you know right right there. I don't know. I mean, I can't really say honestly how much it's it's changed from our perspective.

they're not going to bother, and they're going to hit the desert. And that's what we're seeing. Whether we can actually like attribute it directly to like these policy changes, what I think we can attribute it more directly to is like one, global migration, regardless of policy, is increasing all over the world, and that desperation doesn't like really

wait for any kind of policy change. Two is like the misinformation and sort of like chatter that people are hearing about like this policy is changing, Oh I heard that, Like if you don't use this app, they're going to put you in jail. And like just like literally these things that we're hearing on the border that is funneling people directly into the desert because they want to avoid any kind of interaction with border patrol, even if they have like what would be a you know, like an

asylum claim. People aren't trusting because there's so much change and uncertainty at like a policy level. There's no accessibility to this information, there's no clarity to this information. Nobody knows what's going on, whether it's people that are working in border aid or people that are seeking asylum. So people are just you know, taking their chances and hitting

the desert. And regardless of the policy changed, like ever since the last like you know, like we said, like three to five years, the increase has been like exponential every single year. It just continues increasing.

and using people, vulnerable people as pawns. And so the rhetoric coming out and you know, the you know, we're taking a hard stance and this, that and the other a crack down on immigration, and that I feel it was the current presidential administration just trying to appeal to a larger audience or when the election comes up next year, you know can say hey, look did this, did that, did this? And the way the numbers have been skewed

for apprehensions. You know, that's when you'd have like say in San Luis and Yuma, Arizona, you would see you know, hundreds and thousands of people every day showing up to present themselves for asulnd those all got recorded as apprehension numbers. So you've got in one month, you know, however many you know, thousands. Now Title forty two ends. Now that number shrinks down. Now, that looks better, That looks tougher on, you know, immergion. That looks like you're doing this, that

and the other. Meanwhile, you have people just you know, being vulnerable, being you know in limbo, you know, on the other side of the border, or you have them taking to the mountains and deserts and taking a dangerous trek just so they can be apprehended and you know, plead their case and try to get asylum and try

to get released into the United States. So people that are are being used as pawns in this political theater that we always talk about it as we always it doesn't matter the administration, whether it's blue, whether it's red, whether it's orange, whether it's old, whether it's you know, money,

it's all money. And unfortunately, you know, we have to constantly like dispel a lot of that false narrative that comes out, and it gets exhausting, but I mean it's what we have to do because you're not going to find that out any other way.

five apprehensions. It's one person. And they were deliberately using that to make this seem like more people are coming, and as you say, now it will seem like less because that doesn't happen anymore. I think your point about like the Jackling, the points about the misinformation is super

crucial and one that again often isn't reported. But like I'm not a lawyer, and I can't give people legal advice, but constantly when I'm in Tijuana, when I'm in Sonora, when anywhere where I'm like on the southern side of the border or on this side of the border, people will ask me or when the people are trapped in between the two fences that constitute the border, people will say, hey have you had this? Hey I got this, and they'll play like voice messages on WhatsApp often or show

me a WhatsApp and we'll go over. Like that's not my understanding, you know, Like I don't think that's the case, but it's I understand you're vulnerable, you're scared, and this shit Like I have a PhD and speak all the concerned languages, and I don't understand it fully, Like it's it's complicated and petrifying if this is your only hope of like a dignified life, and I think it's something

that people don't understand. It's how hard it is for those people to get decent information about like what there's quote unquote supposed to do, especially when we have this app, which like I don't have a ton of foyers in around the app, but I don't think I'll ever get any documents back from the FED, to be honest, But yeah, it's so trocious. I think.

court date. They're like there was a time like during you know MPP and all of that, like where people were being giving court dates on Sundays or being given court dates in Texas when they were sent back after their arrest in Arizona to MEXICALI like just crazy stuff, like like if people are even lucky enough to get somebody to help guide them through the process, it's not even like a certainty that the information that they're provided is even going to be accurate on purpose, Like people

are given inaccurate information to wade through this process that doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. It's it's wildly like convoluted. I mean that's the intention, right, Like it's not meant to be navigated in any way.

money supposed to come from? And then you know, if if your language is you know, aroma or something, it's that much harder to navigate that system, to find useful resources to explain it to you. And it's yeah, it's people like to talk about like how I know that their family did legal legal quote unquote migration when there weren't these checks in place and they didn't have to

do any of this shit, And I don't know. It's I don't think people realize how brutalizing the system is until like they've seen it first time at.

you over here to Romosa. All you have to do is pay me three hundred American instead of five thousand for this, Like, Eh, you're probably not going to win that case. The town's a mile away. The town's a mile away, and it's a straight shot and you'll get there in half a day and then you're good to go.

And I mean we've heard the most wild stories, like even from people in the middle of the desert lost saying they told me it was two mile walk and that there was they were hiring in the town on the other side of that hill.

like unbelievably hard and very very often deadly. That's like the surest shot that they have and they take it.

like the people aren't aware. Like towards the end of the Trump administration, Trump started making claims in presidential debates about the number of miles of war he was he had built as far as I can work out, he pulled out of his ass, and then the like then they started rushing to build more wall, and they I asked them how they came up with that number, and then they like they did this thing where they were like, oh, well, we repaired this much wall, and they were like eight

miles of border wall prototype and like a cool man, like they didn't build that much wall, but they started skipping the harder parts right like Valley of the Moon, even that Boulder Pilo outside of Cumber Like, there are areas that don't have wall, and those are areas that are harder, and then that's where people try and cross and like I love to go outside. I'm a pretty fit person, and like Valley of the Moon, it is a odd going, like if you're not going up the road,

like that's tough travel. And that's where people don't have a choice been to cross right right, Yeah.

get down there, you just follow this road. Once you get down to the bottom, there's gonna be a buz waiting for you. It'll take you in. And then they got stranded for days after going through that terrain. The temperature that's when like the season really started shifting. So the nights were really cold, the day time highs were pretty hot, and I mean that was the you know designed you know.

for like fires, campfires and knights to stay warm. Yeah, and you know, Border patrol probably didn't expect that a people locally in Hukumba were going to care or b that the word would get out, and so their cruel practices that they were in acting on like the first day or two of people showing up and being stranded no food, no water, then it kind of backfired. And then you know, I believe you went out there as well.

You saw how many people showed up to take care, and like we were working around the clock to try to you know, organize and make food, prepare food pack, collect donations, everything. And you know that's I've gone through

that terrain. And you know, after all that was closed down and looking through as you know, as we did like trash cleanups and people you know, would have their last remaining food and water that you could see like coming through across you know, the area where they were brought to and like people were shedding clothes because the temperatures were so warm dur in the daytime and then just wondering like okay, so they shod their clothes and now they're like freezing down the bottom of the hill

and the terrain's too tough to go all the way back up. Yeah, and you know they yeah, there's no fence over there. And the fences you know, we've said have always been kind of built for the most part where people can see them. It gives the appearance to the rest of the country that's not out there, that there's a fence across the whole border, and you know, go into a lot of areas where we see that

that's not the case. And also we see where border fences stop and migration makes its way right around the

edge of that. Yeah, most time, but the disk now has increased longer for the walks because instead of just being able to walk through like an open area, now you have to go miles out of the way to get around to an opening and the fence or go up and over a mountain, and you know, doing that in the summertime, you exhaust yourself from the strategist hike on top of the unbearable heat, and then you pass away, you know, an eighth of a mile from a fence,

you know, as someone that we know that happened to

them a couple of years ago. So it's yeah, as you're saying, like the fences and like where they're not put, it's it's just a point of cruelty and part of the prevention through the terrence policy that's been going on for you know, almost thirty years now, and yeah, definitely, yeah, and the CBP one app app and all kinds of suff that's just another extension of prevention through the turns by making it harder for people and pushing people to ways that they can try to get through or you

know what they think they can try to get through easier. And as Jacquelin said, it's just it's become more and more dead here, and every year the numbers go up of confirmed deaths, but that doesn't count the amount of people that go missing every year.

don't know the scope of their cruelty. Like it's just scary, is that, Like it's so much bigger than we even know, even like those of us that are like in it every day.

and how cruel this is. You guys, I know you're familiar with it. But the young women who died on the shrine trail in was it winter of twenty twenty or winter of twenty twenty one?

just turned into heavy winds, like zero visibility snowstorm. And these three sisters that were from Wahaka, who've crossed over for work multiple times, came worked, went back home, you know, for you know, whatever season, came back, worked, went back home. And it was my understanding that they were trying to save up enough money from what they made here in

the United States to open up their own business. And so the day came when they were crossing over the they came through I think like in the Campo area, I think it was, and they were led by two brothers that had crossed previously in the same spot and knew the trail of which to go. But I believe it was their first time actually leading people through and not just themselves coming through. So they you know, they remember the way got up close to where the shrine is,

of the shrine trail. There's a little shrine up there that people would you know, leave little little symbols and tokens and little items behind, mostly to you know, the Virgin of Wlupe. And from that point it is that that's the last time you can be hiking on that trail that far north and turn around and still see Mexico. Anything beyond that, it's kind of like the point of like you can't see Mexico, like you've got to keep

moving forward. You've already gone, you know. At this point it's close to thirty I think air miles, so like you know, you know, walking miles is a lot more than that. Yeah, And they were at this kind of like rock boulder outcropping just about five minutes walk shy of the shrine when the sisters couldn't keep going anymore.

And because of the extreme weather, in the extreme cold, they were soaking wet from the rain and then the you know, the sub freezing temperatures with the snowstorm they couldn't keep going anymore, and so they were kind of huddled up underneath of this boulder. It's the only spot that kind of gave like a little bit of shelter from that storm. Yet, I mean, those rocks are you know ice cubes, you know, being out there that long.

So the two brothers I believe, left to try to get cell phone signal because you know, you're you're up pretty high in the mountains. I think that elevation up there on the mountain, I think it's somewhere around five thousand feet more so that that location where we're where they passed away, and the brothers they took off to try to get cell phone range to call and you know EMS, which turns out to be you know, border patrol in that region, and so got to hold a

border patrol order. Patrol arrived to where the brothers were, and first thing, you know, before you know, rushing to try to make a rescue anything, they you know, detained and arrested the brothers for you know, for you know, human smuggling, trafficking, you know, just you know, being coyotes. And then they put in efforts of trying to rescue. By the time I believe that they got to the

three sisters. Two of them had already passed away, and there was one that was still barely alive, unconscious, and due to the whether, as Board Patrol has stated, the agents, the four star you know rescue agents, the search and trauma rescue, they had to take off. They couldn't airlift the last remaining sister out because there was zero visibility. The helicopter couldn't even get like find them, couldn't get like anywhere close to them, couldn't hover because the wind

was blown so hard. It was just about a whiteout condition. So, I mean, the most you know fucked situation possible, and Border Patrol in order to make sure it didn't turn into from a triple fatality to however many of them there were, I think there was three or fours they were out there, so to you know, in order to

save their lives, they took off. They put the last remaining sister like in a like a puffy overall type of situation, and they had taken her wet clothes, They cut her wet clothes off her and you know, were actively trying to warm her with like heat packs and wrapping her and so they took off and kind of just like left her, you know, with basically as they said, the best you know, chances possible of survival, even though someone being left on their own in that condition there's

zero chances of survival. Border patrol took off, allegedly injured themselves, you know, in doing so, got frostbited, et cetera. I think it was the next day, came back out for the would turned out to be the recovery, and all three sisters had passed away, you know, from you know, freezing to death. And so as we learned about that, you know, as the situation was unfolding, we reached out to the journalists who wrote the article in local San

Diego Union Tribune. His name is Alex Riggins, and through you know, some back and forth contact, he was covering the trial of the two brothers that brought the sisters through their in court for their deaths, and reached out to see if we could find out any information, if he could, if Alex could let us know like maybe where the shrine trail was, or maybe where the location of the recovery was just something that we would have so we can, you know, put it on a map,

figure out how to get there and get boots on the ground to leave supplies, you know, a few times a year, whether it's going to be really hot or really cold. We wanted to make sure that, you know, we responded to the crisis as we found out about it. That's something that we unfortunately have had to do all too common in this work, is that's we're planning the way that we learn.

and further deaths. So we got more or less a good location and one of our team members at the time, he went out on a weekday that he had off, and he just went kind of driving around in the area and start hiking out in this area that looked like from the photos that were in the newspaper could have been this location. And he put in a long hike that day and he found the clothing that was removed from the last he found the like the puffy overalls.

He found a bunch of medical equipment, like emergency equipment that was used for you know, the three sisters during that process. And shortly after that, I think it was just like a couple of weeks, we got together some of our strongest hikers and we decided to go out there and leave a bunch of supplies. And that is it is a hard, hard hike, whether you're you know, carrying thirty five forty pounds on your back or you're just carrying, you know, a backpack with like a bottle

of water and some food. Like, it's hard no matter what. So we got up there and we left supplies, and you know, we've been going back usually before seasons change, whether it gets hot gets cold, and we we track to see if you know, anything's been taken. And it doesn't appear that that trail gets too much use, but

it does get some use. Yeah. So you know, I don't know if if the three sisters passing away they had anything to do with like future travel for people on the trying trail or what, but you know, we make that commitment in their honor and to prevent anything like this ever happening again.

they prioritize apprehension over saving people. Every moment is going to count and regardless of what the conditions were, those are the conditions, and that's the story that they're reporting. I think we rightfully are skeptical of anything that they say when it comes to rescues and how they prioritize doing so when we have seen entirely the opposite occur on a regular basis when they have the opportunity to

provide aid them electing to do so. You know, going back to Hakumba, when people were out there and they had nothing, They weren't being provided a sip of water for days and days and days. Border patrol could have done that. If they are the emergency services they could have provided emergency aid when it comes to a rescue like this, they have the agency, they are the agency.

They have the agency to deprioritize processing somebody for apprehension and prioritizing rescue, and they chose not to do it. Like time and time again, we see these situations and I think, like when you know, before we started recording and you asked, like, what's the thing that like we want to talk about that doesn't often get talked about,

And I think it's this. I think it's the It's not just like the surveillance and the patrolling and all of that stuff that to humanizes migrants, but like when they're in danger, they're regarded as less than human by the because the only agency that's out there to help them is like the reason that they're in danger in

the first place. So we have come across multiple search and rescues and that aren't migrant related, just being out in the desert where either a US citizen or in one instance, a tourist was lost in the desert, and they're response is night and day when there's a migrant that's lost and we are calling for assistance, you know,

any kind of can a search be initiated. Can we get like the response is so blase and minimal, and there's no accounting, there's no holding them accountable for acting or failing to act right, and it's blatant, like and I think that's the thing that like the general public that isn't involved in this work like should know about how cruel it is and how little the response is when somebody is lost, when they're dying, when they're dead, like us having to call the coroner repeatedly to have

children's bones picked up. That would not happen if that child was not presumed migrant. So this is like we have story after story after story of like situations like this is just one tragedy, but there's a lot of could have, should have, would have like on the end of like eight organizations that we carry, And it doesn't seem to ever be like a shared weight with any of the agencies that actually have the ability to respond to this kind of thing in like an organized way.

They don't care, they don't do anything about it.

such a strange priority. Well that's strange. It's a cruel and horrible priority choice. Right to prioritize is that kind of like enforcement of a human lives like which are being lost? And it's the same like you know, ever reported in Arizona or a turn, I spend a lot of time there. I spent a lot of time here, reported in Texas a couple of times. Like, it's the same all across the border, right, the priority is not rescuing people. It's and it's not even particularly enforcing the

law as it's written. It's just stopping people coming here.

so many people I know. I yeah, I don't know how I went over return at that time, but I guess managed to avoid it. But yeah, it's it's it's that. And then like I have been in the middle of nowhere in the desert and found cameras, surveillance towers, right like stuff that would not be the Constitution is largely irrelevant, but like there wouldn't be legal or just like unjustifiable anywhere else, and like this spans from here to like

our Otume friends in Arizona to Texas. Right like, if you live on the border, like or any within one hundred miles of the border, right, the border can come to you. It doesn't matter if you care or not. It doesn't matter if you consider yourself to be like an immigrant to the US, or if you've sort of decided that doesn't apply to you or you don't care

about those people. Like then it doesn't matter that surveillance still impacts you, and often it impacts like our indigenous friends, right like like my myome friends Kumii friends had their graveyards bulldos to build the wall. And yeah, even if you don't even if you think the war is great, that your cell phone is still there through distinctray down.

that stuff started the border. And now we see that just recently, like the San Diego City Council approved to have the like the street like eras and all that kind of stuff, the lamps and all those you know, one hundreds of cameras that are going to be out there like that same type of technology, and like, well, if you're not breaking the law, it's like okay, we'll give a little bit of time until you're not breaking a law, and then like stuff still happens. I mean,

that's that's how you know things. You know Snowball.

Kindness online. You can find them on Instagram. You can find James there Brolo el Cordero prot to be able to work out how to spell that, and you can find them on Facebook, and you can find them on Instagram, and you can pretty much find them anywhere you go on the Internet by searching border Kindness and like jameson they in his I'm looking at his Instagram profile right now,

it's Brolo el Cordero. I guess b r O l O e l c O r d E r O. James has a wish list, an Amazon wish list, so if you if you're not close to San Diego, then you can you can just click on there and buy them something. I'm sure you could collect donations and send those as well. So there are a lot of different ways you could help. But I hope you all enjoyed this. If you're in town and you want to help, go hike with them, and you can reach out to them on social media as well, and I'm sure they'd be

happy to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening. Goodbye.