An Interview With An Anarchist Protester in Russia

most of the global community. This is due to a mix of sanctions, to a lot of businesses pulling out just because of the social consequences of not doing so UH, and of policies that have been put down by Putin's government in order to crack down on dissent and further remove Russia from any kind of contact with the West. UM. As a result, it's kind of difficult to get in touch with people who are resisting Putin's government from within Russia. UM.

Anarchist activists in particular UM are not see people to reach. However, we did recently sit down with one of these individuals and talk to them, so this episode will both be an interview with that person and a bit of history about the anarchist movements within Russia. Russia has actually a very long history of anarchist organizing. Two of them in generally considered foundational thinkers and anarchists political theory. Mikhail Bakunin

and Peter Kropotkin were both born in Russia. Both lived and agitated under the Tsars. Bakunan was an advocate and a major theorist of political terrorism. He fled the country, was returned, and ultimately spent like ten years in prison there. Kropotkin was the author of a seminal anarcho communist text titled The Conquest of Bread, and he was only able to return to Russia after the nineteen seventeen Revolution. He

died there in nineteen twenty one. It's also worth noting that Peter Kropotkin is canonically the ancestor to Tommy Pickles of the rug Rats, but that's something you can look

up on your own now. While some of the most influential anarchist in history were Russian, and anarchist organizing was a potent part of pre nineteen seventeen Russian political history, the success of the Bolsheviks after nineteen seventeen led to the movements near annihilation um Emma Goldman was yet another major anarchist, activist, and thinker who was born and educated

in Russia. She immigrated to the United States in eighteen eighty five, where she promptly helped try to assassinate a steel magnate in revenge for his brutality against striking workers. Goldman grew to prominence as a labor activist and women's rights activist in the last decade of the eighteen hundreds. In nineteen o one, her work helped inspire Leon Cho

Goosh to assassinate President William McKinley. While Emma Goldman had no direct connection to Cho Gosh, she defended his actions by saying, as an anarchist, I am opposed to violence, but if the people want to do away with assassins, they must do away with the conditions which produced murderers. There's much more to say about Emma Goldman, but for our purposes, what matters is that she was arrested for opposing the draft in World War One and eventually deported

back to Russia. Right after the revolution. Goldman was initially psyched that the czars had been deposed, but quickly became disillusioned by the violence of the forming totalitarian Soviet state. She considered this a betrayal of the revolution and wrote a series of articles for The New York World that have gone down as one of the first expose as

of conditions in the Soviet Union. Goldman's work was criticized by many left wing intellectuals outside of Russia, but she was correct about political repression in the new Bolshevik workers paradise. Matters did not improve for anarchists in the first twenty years of the new regime. In nineteen thirty seven, in his history of Anarchism in Russia, E. Yorroslansky wrote, in the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, at the present time, the anarchists no longer enjoy any influence over the masses.

They are met with only as isolated individualists. The fall of the Soviet Union, the coming of democracy, and the slow rise to power of Vladimir Putin did not enormously alter this state of affairs. Russian anarchists still exercise relatively little influence over the masses. Most of them struggle towards autonomy as isolated individuals. In March of twenty two, in the third week of the Russian invasion, of Ukraine. I

sat down with one of these people. We've been chatting online through Reddit for a couple of weeks, and the process of setting up a proper audio interview was difficult. To say the least repression of all political descent under Putin is extreme. More than thirteen thousand people were arrested at anti war protests in the first two weeks of the war, so you will understand why our source was

paranoid about his identity. I had to download a secure app I'd never even heard of before, and he only agreed to speak with me while using a voice changing application to further disguise his identity. Due to the difficulties this created, I will be paraphrasing him and quoting his words myself at a couple of points here in order to make listening to this a more comfortable experience. But here he is at ten years or so. It's bicycle and co Of course, my initial cell was into weak

ten years ago plush. So just to make it clear, he's saying that he's been involved in anarchist organizing for more than a decade since around two thousand eleven. The initial cell he organized with was affiliated with an umbrella organization called Autonomous Action. We'll talk about them more in a minute, but it's important you understand that his cell, at about fifty people strong, was considered quite large for

Russia once in Moscow. In perspects, I guess in the artists in linings because whatever they were worked for rental of course, or concerned. Even in two thousand eleven, organizing as an anarchist was rather risky. As a result, our source actually started his career in activism on his own. As a single protester. He would stand out in public places, sometimes during other protests, sometimes on his own, holding a

sign that said in Russian peace to the world. Now I'm reading you the English translation of what he put down. The the literal Russian words that he had on his sign were a reference to a famous Soviet slogan officially adopted in nineteen fifty one. The phrase actually has a much older origin in the country, which begins under the Orthodox Church and grew more popular among revolutionaries after the

February Revolution. The first leftist he use peace to the world as a slogan in Russia may have actually been a f Kerensky, who headed the brief democratic government that ran things after the are stepped down. In our sources case, his sign was an act of protest against a number of things, including the recent Russian invasion of Georgia and Russian military operations in Syria. Was kind of past, so I can't question for I'm promising for against the stuff.

Stuff uh as almost nothing effectiveness organization or one hour home. We managed to entire winter on a couple of at least currently home. After he'd been seen doing this for a while, members of a local anarchists self found this person and started asking them questions, Hey, who are you, what are you doing? What do you think of this? And that he was not specific about the individual political questions they answered, and we probably don't need to get

into that. They invited him eventually to a building where a number of them tended to gather and prepare for actions. In short order, they started organizing together. At the time our source started organizing as an anarchist. The most notorious recent action was the Kimki Forest conflict. In brief, Kimki is a forest with a long histories and nature preserve.

It's kind of outside of Moscow. It's so densely forested that in the sixteen hundreds, and then in the early eighteen hundreds, when the Russians were resisting Napoleon, it was used by partisans and insurgents as a base of operations. When the Bolsheviks took over, it was preserved to act as a sort of open air therapy center for tuberculosis patients. In the early two thousands, local city planners started to advocate for a toll road to be built through the

middle of the forest. Their argument was that a large amount of traffic passed through the Leningrad Highway and that had caused huge amounts of air pollution in the city of Kimki. Since the forest was protected by national environmental codes, turning it into a road was a long political process. Activists protested, arguing that it would be an environmental disaster

which spoilers. It was like anarchists in the United States in the period before the Green Scare, Russian anarchists carried out a series of occupation actions to try and protect the wild lands. So the stand it was poor or or the governance the cost orgastlands past or section oh fascists one constraint trains. In the end, it was in two thousand twelve Shortly after our source began participating an anarchist demonstrations, the government carried out a major crackdown against

certain anarchist activists. They focused primarily on groups and individuals who were doing things like making Molotov cocktails and engaging in property destruction. Now our source participated in food not bombs, and other non aggressive types of direct action, most of which involved handing out food and supplies to people who

are helping them to get resources. He did not disavow insurrectionary anarchists the kind of people who threw bombs, but that wasn't the kind of thing he did, and he didn't have a lot of connections with those people because roughly a year after he started organizing as an anarchist, most of them in his area at least got cracked out on and either killed, forced out of the country,

or arrested by the government. This crackdown on insurrectionary Russian anarchists led to an even more paranoid security culture among those who remained. Our source and his comrades mostly distributed food, but they also provided support for a large number of children whose families had abandoned them due to crushing poverty. Even though these things were not illegal, they had to maintain intense security culture to avoid being part of future crackdowns.

One of the first don't talk to anyone or a structional companization commun don't care for the information, don't give them infrestion means no one. Long standing tradition among Russian anarchists was a sort of defensive isolation. People gave each other as little information as possible about their real identities.

As a result, despite the fact that he has participated in multiple protests since the invasion of Ukraine and people have been arrested at those protests, our source insists that he doesn't know if any of his comrades have been taken into custody. Now. Some of this probably has to do with the fact that he's not organizing in a major city, um, but a lot of it probably has to do with the fact that he just doesn't particularly

know any people by name. Poles, which are imperfect but cannot be entirely discounted, suggest that most Russian civilians support the war and their military. Even so, the scope and scale of the anti war protests in Russia have beggared

anything from recent memory. Our source says that this has actually helped to mitigate some of the despair you might expect Russian anarchists to feel, given the Titanic increase in state repression from from there, just like, oh, come on, we can do it all everything and we'll just again if it's will find us whatever. No, or there is no despair at least we don't see it. The wants

of action, their words of preparation. From what I understand, or not only artists, but other rdical firms were gathering in Russia or in Moscow, in Saint Pasbura obviously because the most et center of everything be there, not not Carenians. I guess, oh you some some even throwing like water us really industries. So it's probably time that we talk about autonomous action or a D. The Revolutionary Anarchist Federation that our friend and his comrades are affiliated with a

D actually has members in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. It was founded in two thousand two and briefly had affiliates in Armenia before they disbanded in two thousand five. That's a story in and of itself. A D advocates direct action in order to quote create a tradition and basis for a new humanist culture, social self organization, and radical resistance against militarism, capitalism, sexism, and fascism. They consider the

existing government of Russia as entirely illegitimate. They refused to take part in Russian electoral politics, seeing even left wing opposition parties as essentially controlled by Putin and only existing to provide a sham vision of choice. A D activists call themselves the Autonomy and see their calling as twofold to exist as autonomous, free individuals within an unfree system

and to spread revolutionary sentiment and weaken the state. Much has been said in the West of Alexei Navalny, a Russian opposition politician who, whatever else you might say about him, is certainly not controlled opposition. He has survived an assassination attempt by the Putin regime and is currently incarcerated after leaving his exile in the West to return to Russia

and fight the sham case against him in court. No one can doubt that Navalny possesses significant physical courage, and it seems fair to say the man believes in what he says. A D Activists, from what I have seen, do not fault him in his willingness to suffer for his beliefs, but they believe that he is at the very least deeply misguided. Navalny, they say, holds to a fundamentally errant belief that Russia could ever be a parliamentary

democracy in the Western tradition. Their argument is that corruption, investigations and electoralism are useless in Russia and always have been, and from a historical standpoint it is difficult to argue with these claims. Autonomous Action members do not support the Ukrainian state, and I have read articles from them where they describe the conflict in the Dawn Bass, which simmered for eight years before sploating into the current conflagration, as

two fascist paramilitary forces backed by two capitalist governments. However, they have been consistent for years that the proper stance of Russian anarchists is to support the Ukrainian people against aggression from the Russian state, before Putin commenced his broader invasion. In February of this year, Autonomous Action published an article with the title why we should support Ukraine quote Putin is not just the gendarme of Europe, but the gendarme

of the whole world. From Syria to Myanmar. Whenever a dictator tortures and kills thousands of his old people, Putin is there to support him. There are no elections in Russia anymore. Even the most moderate attempts to change something results in criminal cases and persecutions. I do not believe that the result of this yet another round of threatening declarations and building up pressure is a full scale war.

But as the conflict is not disappearing, a full scale war may start after five to ten years, even as a result of a cycle of escalation, even if no one really wants it. And in case of a full

scale war, we should be on the Ukrainian side. As Mala Testa said, for me, there is no doubt that the worst of democracies is always preferable, if only from the educational point of view, then the best of dictatorships neutrality and a war between Ukraine and Russia would mean neutrality in an invasion of a democracy by a dictatorship. Now our source concurs with the extant evidence that Russian

citizens still broadly support the war. As I stated earlier, nanton attacking Russia with no people don't know, he was certain to acknowledge that there's still a great deal of propaganda, largely pro NATO propaganda on the anti war side of things. Given the information situation within his country, he admitted that he'd had difficulty parsing some things out, while acknowledging that his side also lacked perfect information, he felt that their stance against the war was safe because in the end

it opposed blood letting. You can claim on some kind of or the Western growing. Oh if even if you're under some kind of work, even West Western is basically a case as well, you still of this world on

your side because you don't want to. He did admit that a number of people in his life, family and close friends knew about his political sympathies, and he claims that the outbreak of war and the massive futalitarian swing Putin has taken over the last month have caused some of these people to be more open to his beliefs.

So I'm kind of opening for them. One people, one of them people watch points or oh, my friends, do you know what I want to kind of stuff what I'm into, or as the war stone, or they just came to me. However, personally, hey, you've been concurring for this, so wint for years you've been telling us on us or for years I thought you'd be annoyed and not understand. You're right, What do we do? Oh, we don't have

people knowing about me? What what gives no? Seeing the picture At the moment, the political situation within Russia is truviously answered. All the inner of dubious sources have claimed today palace coup is in the offing or has been attempted. Some have even spoken of the possibility of a revolution, or at least a massive protest campaign that forces Putin from office. Our source did not consider that likely in the unlikely event the government collapsed entirely, he was not

particularly optimistic about what might result. You mentioned the centralised governments for you and there is no They're just that, just the originals like Oh, it's He mentioned me that a number of his loved ones had come forward recently to ask what they ought to do. I asked how he responded to that question. Right now, we try to organize and help each other because there is a there is a chance or currency local stuffing, and we'll just

need to survive. That's the first thing weak. So soft organization and interactions are available than any currency or no. For what I see it the way, Uh. Second thing is that we need to use the training or start. I guess there's there's a term in English cause every week don't or when you have all infrastructure. Basically for now we need to have from enough folding of water

points we all can train even with the forums. He particularly mentioned to the revolutionary importance of finding some way to either smuggle or produce medical supplies and medications. He knows one person who already had to flee the country because his wife could no longer get the medicine she needed. He mentioned the sanctions levied against Russia as a major issue for regular working people, but when I asked what he felt Western countries could do in this conflict, he

was actually quite focused on something else Entirely. He believes the United States has access to high quality satellite images of what happened in the immediate lead up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin's government justified much of their invasion on so called attacks from the Ukrainian government that they claim it escalated against the separatist regions. Our source believes his government is lying about this, or many states so here's the same thing, or yeah, we need to cope.

Of course it's been queen so it's I don't believe that Ukraine or so being with let's say, less of military or compared to Russia or not so she stuff, So we didn't need those things coped published at least maybe not as long as possible. Constan still point all would at least it's helpful people see you get there are points queer from its good. Since the invasion, it has gotten notably harder, but not impossibly hard for Russian said to get information about the conflict that does not

come from the Kremlin. Are starts explained. How he does it a combination of using VPNs and understanding the nature of authoritarian propaganda. In short, even when the government is lying to you, you can get an idea of what the truth is by understanding what they want you to believe. When work stuff all sources, what science, I saw it South Korean side, Russia side, great side, Oh so stopped

as well. I don't really believe in me. Sal let's see firsts because they are past they say, what's going to? What's they're trying to contain to? O? Or if you have say Okay, let's this one. Uh. When Russian Ministry of Foreign first selling or down the solution, and at the same time we hear all the Syrians, Syrian or mercenaries are going to rail for me, it means one thing they want to us pull or the pointing to

get some time so professional sources councils. He felt that one way US activists could be helpful to Russian activists was by continuing to document and study the different munitions and tactics used by police in cracking down on demonstrations. He noticed that Russian police used similar and sometimes even the same weapons to the ones that the US police used on crowds in the protests. He believes the documentation done to study these weapons is helpful to people all

around the world. He expressed some frustration at friends and colleagues of his, who, after years of failing to truly grapple with the degree to which Putin had centralized power, We're now fleeing Russia to avoid living under an increasingly totalitarian state. A swampy colleagues. I guess our radio whatever he was trying to support me like stuff scoring all

the sports cop Russians. Yes, if you into bonus, that's for him trying to blame him hence it and that's why against against the commers, he has decided to stay and to resist. While he has admitted to now studying martial arts and military tactics, he did not have high hopes for any kind of confrontation with the Russian state, and as a generally peaceable person, he has decided that he will continue to resist in the way that makes the most sense to him, by helping people and providing

them with things that they will increasingly need. Is the economic situation in Russia degrades further for me? How many people most kind of since constant sense for yeah, that's for at least six years or one. Uh, but then that once a thing about arcists and wishould I call myself and you okay, before I call myself an alarchists, then I should make once a more thing. Oh I need to before I don't know if him people, uh gotta Checkay it could happen here as a production of

cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources for It could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.