Also media. Hello everyone to welcome to if it can happen here a podcast where I have just been attacked for my identity as a British person by my colleague Garrison Davis.
I gere it's going to happen again. Really, I never This podcast is not a safe space.
Not for British people. Sadly, many many such places for us, including Britain, which is a country which is not doing so well right now. The Britain is still very safe. I don't want to talk about Britain today. I do, incidentally, I guess because I grew up in a country that has virtually no fucking public land I mean in the commons.
Yes, actually kind of topical.
Yeah, it is. That is a question that actually, and so earlier this year in September, I was staying with which in people who are indigenous to the Northern Alaskan, Interior Arctic and Subarctic, and one of them was like, hey, how did you guys get so dislocated from your lands? One of my friends who I was talking to, and it was a really interesting question for you, right because they have lived on that same land for as long as human beings have existed in the Americas the twenty
five thousand years something like that. Like, the answer is the enclosure of the commons, right, the answer is like proto capitalism is what removed folks like me from the land and identifying in a way that those people identify with the land. But in the United States, we do have a little bit or quite a lot actually of public land, right, various different types of public land, various different land protections that anyone can go to where you don't have to be in America or a citizen. Anyone
can go to public lands and enjoy them. Unfortunately, Utah Senator quote unquote based Mike Lee is once again attempting to weaken protections on wilderness, which will render some of the small parts of the USA they have not been fundamentally damaged by capitalism, permanently and irrevocably changed. Are you familiar with Mike Lee.
Yeah, he's the senator from Utah, the senator from Utah. Yeah, and he's based as you have said, Yes, he's based.
Right.
He's a hashtag poster.
He's a poster. Yeah.
He operates a Twitter account which some might deem as offensive and tweets about current current events in a very provocative way. Yeah, usually in line with some kind of partisan sentiments.
Yeah, that's pretty fair.
Specifically, following the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband, made a series of tweets that were I guess, kind of insensitive, if not actually if not laying blame at the governor of Minnesota in this kind of ironic joking way where you have plausible deniability, but in general handled that situation very grossly. And I think that that's what most people might know his tweets for. But he's very active, He's he's tweets about many things, many a thing.
Yeah, yeah, if he thinks that, he posts it. But yeah, yeah, most people will know him as a guy who made the extremely poor taste posts following those.
Murders nightmare on walls the street.
Yeah, just nothing to be posting when some people have been murdered.
I think in general, when people are murdered, I think we as humans should should post.
The last Yeah yeah, right, if somebody has died, like, just don't post, you know, maybe not to say this is terrible, so your condolences or whatever, but realistically their family aren't looking on on Twitter dot com to see you who who's sending their condolences. But the sure as funk we'll find out if you try and make a funny about it. So to just don't just resist urge to post another urge that Mike Lee sadly have is I don't like that at all.
Yeah, we're talking about Mike Lee's urgents.
Okay, it's in the broadcastable space. Mike Lee has the urge to sell off public land. He has tried twice this year. We spoke about this a little bit on ed right, we talked about it in the context of the Big Beautiful Bill or the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.
Yeah, he did try that like half a year ago.
Yes he did. Well, Garrison, I regret to inform you that Mike Lee is back somehow.
Mike Lee has returned.
Yeah, and this time he has got a new thing. So last time, if you remember, he talked about selling off the public land to make affordable housing.
Sure, sure, yeah, not going to look into this any further.
And that was exactly what he was relying on. That no one gave a shit about the millions of acres that we all get access to, and they would just trust him on that one.
Based Mike Lee and his abundance exactly.
It's him and there's o run shaking hands when it comes to affordable housing, but something they care about very much, I'm sure, something that Mike Lee has campaigned on for years. He did not stick Landing on that because people read the proposal and they noticed that it was going to do nothing for housing affordability whatsoever. If it did create any housing at all, it was going to be like
super rich people's McMansions. You know, this was not going to do anything to move the needlearn affordable housing in the US. This time, he has found a cause which receives even less scrutiny. Can you guess what it is, Garrison.
Ah, for why we need to sell the public lands. Yes, I'm trying to not just look ahead on your script.
Yeah, there is a document in front of you which, as he asked, it, so close your eyes. I feel like there's like two or three things in the US where everyone just seems to turn a blind eye to, like I.
Mean, this is it for like is it for like developing land for like oil data centers?
Uh, that probably is what's happening. But he's he's smart enough not to say that, right.
Super Gold magic card as in the as in the film Eddington. I mean, I would guess the data centers, but that that's that I could be wrong.
It's border security. Oh great, of course, right. You could have said anti terrorism and probably got there to you. But no, it is. It is securing US southern well all aboarders, actually southern border, northern border, Eastern and western maritime borders. Obviously they're they're looking to prevent any more people coming in from Canada. Was not a border stick that that is correct? That borders because literally, so you go to search something.
Full off the map of the United States, I was like, I don't think you. Maybe I'm misremembering, but you does not a border state.
Is absolutely not a border state.
Gas.
It's actually not.
A border state. It is above Arizona, which.
Is yeah, so that is perhaps what's going on here. Mike Lee has found a way to sell off public lands without selling off U to ohur public lands. Oh in this case, not really sell off, but destroy and degrade in a way which is very clearly going to lead to commercial exploitation. Right, what Lee proposes, what Lee's bill has a bunch of cosponsors. I believe the only border State Senator co sponsoring it is head cruise that
makes sense, big public lands, respector. But Lee's bill would allow the Department of Homeland Security to quote inventory illegal roads and trails on public land within one hundred miles of the border and then convert them into navigable roads. That that is the part that makes no sense, right, Like when you look at Lee's statements, and I will read one of Lee's statements here. So this is a statement on the Senate Energy Committee web page where they
talk about Energy Natural Resources Committee. His quote from Mike Lee explaining his bill quote, Biden's open border chaos is destroying America's crown duels. I'm going to pause here to note this. According to my watch, we're at November seventh, twenty twenty five, while your watches rog Yeah, we are once again asking the most important question of our time.
It was President who is He used the president tense.
It didn't It's not even like talking about twenty twenty and pretending that Trump was a president. He's doing it.
Right now that the art Quorterer policies are destroying our natural airs.
Yeah, we were a year after the election. You've had time to come to terms with this. You can't just keep pointing at Joe, but apparently I guess you can.
They're going to keep doing that for three more years until there's a new guy.
Yeah. Yeah, So let's go on with Chairman Lee, his chairman of this Senate Energy Natural Resources Committee. Right, Families who want to enjoy a safe hike or camp out are instead finding trash piles, burned landscapes, and trails closed because rangers are stuck cleaning up the fallout. Cartels are exploiting the disorder, using these lands as cover for their operations. This bill gives land managers and border agents tools to restore order and protect these places for the people they
were meant to serve. He's doing the thing where he says one thing and then his build does something completely different. Yeah, what he is saying is, on the face of it, somewhat ridiculous. But what he's claiming he's going to do is protect these lands. Right. What the bill allows them to do is to find roads that are not permitted and turn them into navigable roads.
So just actually pave roads, yes, in the protected wildlife in.
The Yeah, well crucially in wilderness areas. Right. So the nineteen sixty four Wilderness Act does not allow for there to be any mechanized access. Lee's bill proposes not just to amend the Wilderness Act for within one hundred miles of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow for the construction of roads.
So that they can police the public lands better. That's that's what he's saying.
Yeah, right, Well, he's one of his claims is for search and rescue, and that there are already exemptions that allow for mechanize search and rescue access, right, like things like helicopters, right, helicopters. Yeah, if you get and even like you get like motorized gurneys, you can use thesar things like that, right, like the even ATVs. Right, there's a threat to human lives.
A Toyota tacoma.
Yeah, I mean you'd struggle in most wilderness lands with the Tacoma, but yeah, you could. You could give it a college try. But it's ludicrous. He hasn't even made an effort to join the dots, you know. It also calls for fire mitigation by clearing fuels and building fire breaks, and includes a provision that would quote address invasive or non native species.
In the wilderness area.
Yeah, like, what are you going to go in there and round us?
Everyone's planting and spreading invasive species.
Yeah, I mean, of course they are invasive species right late, Like if you go to parts of where I live, like you'll see mustard, which is not an indigenous species because the climate's changing and people move around the world, and like, lots and lots of animals that weren't like here twenty thousand years ago are here now.
I mean, you can make an argument for managing these areas. I don't think he's coming at this from an environmental conservation standpoint.
Yeah. I don't know what the non native species thing is about other than like just like nativism for plants, Like I genuinely can't work it out. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. It also attempts to inventory damage done to public lands by my grants, like what wildfires are caused by migrants? How many national parks are trashed by migrants?
Oh my god? Yeah, as opposed to the Americans citizens who treat these areas like dogshit. Yeah, is who simply just don't do their jobs because they're too lazy.
Yeah, And like the literally thousands of people a year who fucking drag their refrigerator or television onto public land and execute it by firing squad. Yeah. Like yeah, maybe make a bill about that. I mean, you want to do something nice for public land. I want to give
a definition of wilderness from Howard. I think it's zamasav and he ever read his name with a Wilderness Society, who more or less wrote act It defines wilderness as quote a wilderness in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor and who does not remain. I don't actually really like that definition. I like wilderness, but I'm not a
big fan of the idea of like quote unquote unti wilderness. Right, like every bit of what is now the United States is a place where indigenous people have been living and surviving for tens of thousands of years, long before it was the United States. It's not untouched. It's just not fucked by extractive capitalism in a way that a lot of our land has been in the last two hundred.
Years, there could be touching without a fuck, that's what you're saying. Person.
I saw this mischievous look come on their face, and I didn't know which direction they were going to take it, but I didn't expect that one.
Now this is podcasting.
Yeah wow, Yeah, we've just left the news reel. Let's do an advertising break so we can't come back from that. All right, we've returned de scandalized myself. Lee is currently making his claims right that this will somehow make the border safer and make people on public lands safer.
This is such the thinnest justification that you're throwing in like this is so I severely doubt he sincerely even believes this.
Yeah, I mean the border patrol have access to all these lands, right, like I see I think the cumber Wilderness of state Wilderness. I see border patrol in there all the time.
I can see. There's many reasons for why our republic and might be interested in like building road infrastructure in these places and border security. Frankly, is insulting that you're that he's even trying to use that as a zeitgeist justification.
Yeah, it's fucking ludicrous. Like the Trump administration is speed running extractive capitalism on our public lands. Right, just yesterday when we're recordings recording on Friday, Joe Biden as president. As you will remember, Friday seven November twenty twenty, the Trump administration nominated. Okay, I've outed myself. I'm not a Biden I'm not a Biden truther. The Trump administration dominated
Steve Pierce to lead the Bureau of Land Management. Piers is a former New Mexico congressman who has supported brilling and fracking on federal land. He's also a serial loser in congressional and state races in New Mexico. I think he lost a Senate and a gubernatorial race, and he has voted to shrink existing public lands. The Trump admin
did this before, right. People will probably if they're engaged in public land advocacy, they will remember the attempts to save the Bears Ears National Monument from oil exploitation, right, which again is in Utah. Utah is for whatever reason, Utah is a hotbed of anti public lands settlement. Amusingly, the previous nominee for the leadership of the BLM had to be removed when emails condemning Trump's response to January sixth came to light she I guess failed the loyalty test.
Trump has also put Doug Bergham at the head of the Department of the Interior. Right, if you're wilar with Bergham's shtick, guest.
His name sounds incredibly familiar.
Yeah, he was governor I believe in North Dakota. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah. Like he did this pivot on like culture war issues where he had previously been not opposed to abortion, for example, and he just like took a massive swing to the right in order to kind of align with the Muga position over time. So he's not lying the Department of
the Interior. I wrote about this on my newsletter that I write because when he was nominated, he received a letter of support from the Outdoor Recreation round Table, a bunch of outdoor brands, notably ARII was one of the brands that supported nomination. Bergham is another big oil and gas guy, right, He's a guy who has talked about the need for energy exploitation on public land. I have a whole scripted series and in working on about specifically
drilling in the Arctic refuge. But this goes far far beyond that, right, this could potentially affect every piece of public land, every national park, every national monument in the United States.
And drill baby drill, Yes, drill baby.
Drill is pretty much our approach to public land these days. Amusingly, ARII was shamed into rescinding their support of Bergham for that. Yeah. Yeah, one of the few instances where people probably posted their way to a change in in some in some kind of some kind of policy. I guess, even though it's only ARII policy. I want to talk a little bit about how we got to this idea of public land and the sort of way that it's sometimes referred to, and in a where I would prefer we talked about it.
I guess the idea we have right now is that there are various tiers of public land. Right, there's Bureau of Land Management land, which is often the least protected. We have national parks, we have National monuments, we have national forests, and we have wilderness, right, wilderness being among the most protected. The problem with this approach is that ecosystems don't necessarily respect property lines. Right. So let's take
for example, the witch in Alaska. Right, they have hundreds of thousands of acres of their own, but their traditional way of life, and indeed, like their existence depends on the existence of the porcupine cariboo herd. The porcupine caribou herd makes the longest migration of any land mammal on Earth, and it carves on the coastal plane, the coastal plain. The gwich In way of saying it would be I
have heard this said a lot of times. My sincere apologies if I don't get it right, like I'm trauma best. What's a gwandai goodly means a sacred place where life begins. It's a very sacred place. Gwitchin don't go there themselves because it's a sacred place. But it is not in their land. It is part of the Arctic refuge, a place where the Trump administration is selling oil and gas leases. Right,
So if the cariboo can't carve, it doesn't matter. It still matters to the Guichin have all this land, but they won't have their cariboo right because the herd will be so disrupted by oil and gas relin where it's carving that it will then disrupt that whole landscape. Right without Cariboo, that landscape would be fundamentally different. So right now, the way we talk about public lands, I think we talk about them like in terms of leisure, right Like
often they're scene as having a value. Like I guess the classic example would be maybe don't remember this gig Patagonia when an advertising campaign called the places we play in the last Trump administration, it's not it, right Like, that is not cool. I think if we only see wilderness as a place where, like folks go outside to do send the na on climbing routes and fucking shreds and mountain bike trails, bro, then we fundamentally like missed the value of it, right Yeah, this goes back a
long long time. For instance, if we look back in ninety twenty nine with specifically with the protection of the Arctic Refuge, we can see this piece that Bob Marshall wrote. Bob Marshall was a forest at the time, but he's kind of important in this creating this idea of like wilderness and wilderness protections. He talked about the quote unquote emotional values of the frontier being preserved in the wilderness, which again I think kind of tells us a lot a lot of what's going on here.
It's a very very Theodore Roosevelt brained approach to conservation.
Yeah, right, Like we can go out there and we can all pretend to be like the guys who participated in the genocide of indigenous peoples of North America. I guess like he also he considered using the definition attract of solitude and savageness, which, again, like it says a lot about it's removing the people from the land, right, like, both literally and in our conception of it. And I
don't think we should do that. Right when we talk about wilderness, we need to talk about it hand in hand with the indigenous people of this country and their traditional management practices which allowed this place to be unspoiled until folks started to exploit it in the last couple of hundred years. They'll take an ad break, hopefully we get something for like fracking or some other petrochemical industry,
and it will be right back. We are back and we are talking about Senator Mike Lee again, Garrison, would you like to guess which industries have emerged on the top of Senator might Lee's donor list When I cruise unto open secrets.
Is it fracking and drilling.
It's actually real estate. He's got a ton of money from real estate. About six hundred and sixty five thousand. Six hundred and sixty five thousand is not that much money when you consider the millions of acres of public lands which would be completely and permanently altered by this, right.
Yeah, he really should be asking for a lot more money to sell off secure the bag. If you're going to do this, it's grossly undervalue. Yeah.
I always look at campaign donations and I kind of expect them to be in the billions or trillions when like you're looking at just this massive and permanent change in government policy.
It's that easy, folks.
Yeah, which is why we are launching a crowdfunding campaign to buy back or the public lands. We're not No one should own them. We should not be buying them back, that they should be protected. It's kind of remarkable how many of our public lands this would impact, right within one hundred miles at a border that gives us two
thirds of the United States population. The general definition that DHS has operated with also includes all of the Great Lakes as quote unquote international waterways, so that takes in like a good chunk of the Midwest, right, it would then go one hundred miles from the shore of any of the Great Lakes. I've seen this reported on very poorly or not at all. A lot of the people who are better at talking about public lands are like
the hunting fishing, like hook and bullet media. They will talk about it more in my experience, and like the straight up outdoor media right, which is where I've made my career at least somewhat for the last fifteen years. They will also go harder for it, like it's generally a more conservative world. But like they will they will
go after politicians who sell public lands. But I think if you're incapable of understanding that, like the border as a zone of exception, the border as a zone without constitutional rights is a problem, and this selling of the public lands is part of that problem, then like it's
very hard to have a complete analysis of this. So like I've seen a lot of analysis without any seemingly where the rights don't understand the United States operates this one hundred mile border enforcement zone, right, and that you, as a US citizen or as an non sensim have fewer rights within that enforcement zone. I have seen a lot of analysis which doesn't take into account this weird assessing of migrant damage to public land, Like, in what
world is that a useful allocation of governments? Like there are places right where, Like if I think about the places where the Biden administration did outdoor attention, that land escape was damaged because people had fires to stay warm, and that fire cause is scarring right in our desert landscapes. Yeah, that landscape is damaged, Like how are you going to what are you going to do? There were like a
thousand people a day coming through at one point. Are you going to find them all and charge them more for like misdemeanor California fire? But also there's a tiny provision of this bill that I found that suggests that migrants cannot be housed on federal public land unless they are housed in a detention center. Yeah, yeah, great, thanks.
That was kind of the case before, Like you couldn't really just be like, well, I mean, by the administration did just say right, you all campaigre and we'll come get you in a week. But there wasn't really a legal precedent for that. They just went ahead and did it. I guess what I want to end up with is, like, I'm obviously very passionate about this. I guess I'm kind of a public land super user. You do be camping, Yeah I do. I am a Yeah, I am a
camping guy. If there's one thing that defines to me, it's going camping. I try and sleep outside least once a month. But yeah, most of my happiest memories in life are like moving under my own power through the mountains. That is when I'm happiest. That is how I deal
with my shit. That is what I do with myself after every single one of the traumatic work trips that you that you seem to love listening to, right like that, that is how I cope with the fact that my job is to turn trauma into stuff to go in between chumper casino ads. So, yeah, I love public lands. But you should too, even if you don't recreate on public lands. Right. So that's the public lands are called
America's best idea. I don't like that because inherent in having public lands is a removal of them from indigenous people, right, and indigenous people losing their sovereignty over those lands. But as things that the state has done with land goes. Protecting it for future generations is one of the good ones, right, Like there are some truly special places. The vastness of
the Western United States is why I live here. I cycled across the United States in twenty ten, and I was just blown away by, like the scale of the landscapes without significant human damage. That's still something I'm blown away by. Yeah, you know, fifteen years later. I spend as much time as I can, and not just like national parks. I think a lot of people, if they've
visited public land, were associated with national parks. I'd really encourage you to like hit up national forests, wilderness lands like places where there it's not a line or a ticket kiosk, Like you can have a really special wilderness experience there. But even if you don't want to, that doesn't appeal to you, if it's not something that you
feel like physically or otherwise comfortable doing that. The fact that it will be there for future generations, the fact that there is potential to return this land to the indigenous people of North America without giant fucking minds scars and roads cut through it right now is something that
we should fight for and like public lands. It's one of those things where like I have conversations with dudes who do not agree with me politically at all, like people who definitely voted for Donald Trump who are also furious about this shit. And if you can help people see that this is part of a bigger problem, Like if this can be a place where we can build
a coalition, that is a good thing. And it's one of those things that like to take action, you can just live out and go on the internet and write to your senator, call your representative, Like you can do these things which are so easy, low risk, and like it's a sort of engagement that like neoliberal bipartisan politics wants you to have. Right, it's not hard, but in this instance, you can do something really good by doing that.
So I would encourage you to do that. Mike Lee's bill is currently in committee, I believe the Energy and Natural Resources Committee TBD whether it gets out of there. But he has tried twice, like since the summer, to significantly destroy this incredible thing that we all have access to in the United States. He will continue to try. This is clearly something that he he has an agenda for, so like I would really encourage people to keep an
eye out and we will keep reporting on it. Anything else you want to talk about public landscare.
Yeah, I mean it's a different approach to dealing with like protected wilderness land. Prop one to amend the state Constitution just passed in New York. Basically what happened like one hundred years ago, they were building this Olympic sports complex and violation of the wilderness like protection like state
like act or part of the Constitution. And to deal with that, I'm not sure what's taken this long, but to deal with this, they have just days ago voted to amenda constitution to set aside twenty five hundred acres of mountain land nearby but not on this complex, and to turn that into protected land to then continue the operation and like maintenance of the sports complex. The proposition was worded a bit weird, but I think in effect this just results in there being in in the end
of more public land or more protected land specifically. Yeah, and the complex that already exists can then continue to function because the lands already it was already used.
Yeah, right, like they sort of built it and then ask permission, like I guess one hundred years later almost. Yeah, like land swaps happen, they like and like like sometimes you'll see people being like, oh, this is public land being sort of like sometimes landswaps are very menial, right, like if there's a little parcel of national forest land or like it can it's a piece that like it's next to a school and the school needs a playing field and those. Yeah, things like that. Land swaps do happen.
And as long as we're not like losing anchorage to oil and gas or to like mcmahonson building, you know, I think we can be flexible.
No, I mean if anything this this this will set us side thousands of acres of land to not have that happen to it. Yeah in the mountains of like that runax Oric. Yes, and then this complex can now continue to get maintained. I think if this, if this didn't pass, they would like restrictions would fall upon the capacity of this complex started to be operating.
That's dumb because you have a place which is like it's not going back, right, Like, once you've built stuff, you.
Should use it. The damage has been dying, I should use it here and then protect more land exactly. Yeah, and luckily this this thing barely passed. It was. It was pretty closing around fifty two percent. Yes, most of the votes for no did come from people, I think living in New York City. I think mostly because of the the proposition was worded. It was worded in an odd way because it made it sound like you're like
sacrificing currently protected land at the complexes on. So I think people who are approaching it's from like kind of an ecological standpoint, a conservation standpoint. Yeah, like misunderstood or had or had some like differing view on like the value of protecting the current land and the complex is on versus establishing thousands of acres of more lands to be protected nearby.
Right, Yeah, I mean initiatives and propositions are often written in a particularly bizarre way, and it's a it's not like like the California Prop fifty was like two lions. This is several paragraphs of so I can see how it would have been confusing to people. But yeah, like this also happens at a state level all the time, right, Like states have public lands too. You'll see like a patchwork of state and federal and private land, especially like
in some national forests in the West. Right, But that's something that is especially in Republican rund states now people should be very aware of in their own states. It's like the GOP didn't used to be massively anti public lands. This is a new thing for them, right, They always felt that they needed there. I guess maybe that they needed their like hunting, fishing, shooting, crowd.
No, but environmentalism is now wokeafied.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, this is like a post to al Gore thing of now. The Conservatives associate a lot of this language with like climate change algorisms that it's his this woke element.
Yeah, it's very strange. It's funny. I'll often when I'm out about, you know, like exploring in the back country, I run into guys who are out there like they're either hunting or like looking for places to hunt. I think we'll be like, oh, yeah, well there aren't as many of the turkeys or the deer or the whatever
is there used to be. But then it's very hard for people who now can't say climate change is real to find a way of like having permission to say what they want to say because they've seen it with their own eyes. Yeah. Better. Also, they don't want to say it, but.
No, I mean I did an episode about this after the R and C because I talked with Yeah, yeah, this like Republican conservation group about how they're trying to bring back like put the conservative back in conservation Jesus.
Yeah, yeah, I think generally, generally the idea of them conserving anything is pretty much off the table at this point. But yeah, people getting out in public land, will you will understand climate change. You spend long enough going to the same spot, and you're going to see what that means. So it has a lot of benefits. Go outside this weekend, go camping. It's great desert season right now. If you're within range of a desert, go camping in the desert. Look at the stars to find a dark sky area
if that's your thing. ARII who had the like, don't go shopping on Black Friday. Go outside. You don't remember this, It's okay, this is just shit.
That's I you know, I am pro gazing at the flickering lights of civilization Garrison.
No one wants to see the fucking flickering lights of civilization. I do, I do, I don't. I want to see the stars. I camped in Chaco Canyon earlier this year. Banger of a national park. That's my it's my final tip. View of the Great House at Chaco Canyon was the largest building constructed in the United States until eighteen eighty. Really yeah, yeah, it is vast. It's one of the least visited parks in the system because you have to
go like seventeen miles down in dirt road. Sure, but incredible that these are the ancestral Pueblo and it's right like the people who are the ancestors of the Pueblo tribes today. But it's an amazing place to go. Check out. You should all go, not at once. There's not enough space for all of you.
I mean, I'm just throlling through Mike Lee's Twitter account.
Now, oh yeah, you got any bangers?
Uh? Not really really not really. I mean he's he's whining about Zoron and posting a lot about Charlie Kirk and that's mostly See, he.
Doesn't even talk about this stuff because no one likes it. He got hammered by a bunch of like very right wing rancher types on Twitter last time he tried to do this.
Yeah, makes sense.
I think he knows better because a lot of people. You can also graze cattle on public land. Right, there's been a whole standoff about this. Long time listeners will remember the Bundy situation. But yeah, linked to I guess he's also pissed those people off. Now. I just went to search for the news coverage of this. The only thing we can find is a Washington Examiner. So it's it's just us and them. Got the video. The auto players on the Washington Examiner page is petrifying.
The true bastions of journalists and the Washington.
Horseshoes theory come to life. Oh god, all right, I go outside. This week's last weekend. Don't go to we go outside. Go outside tomorrow. Bye.
It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions.
Thanks for listening.