Wow .
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after a decade of gathering women together for prayer, we are inspired to bring our words of encouragement to you. This is, I refresh, welcome to I refresh where we empower ordinary women to do extraordinary things through the power of prayer and encouragement I have today with me, my dear friend Carrie lions . Hi. Nice to be here. Good. Have you here and okay, so we have a really long history. We go back to our days of college. Actually I was already graduated from college.
You were my dorm director. Exactly. So yes. So I will say how many years and it's uh , it's been, it's a good, it's a good thing. And we've done life together because our husbands worked together. Yes. Actually I now I'm thinking about it, Brandon workout with my trainer in May. Tom, my wonderful trainer. I just found those pictures the other day. No Way. Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. So yeah. So, and then kids and she's got three kids. Three boys, three boys.
And your middle ones in between my two. Okay. Yeah, cause he's 21 so yeah. So Daniel will almost be 22. And then David's, I guess, Oh wait a minute. Right in 20. Oh, that's really bad. So putting myself on the spot anyway, but we then, not that many years ago, I don't know how many years , um, I was trying to stop wearing sweats. [inaudible] I went through a phase where I wore sweatpants every day for a good year. Everyone has a uniform. Yeah. And I color coordinate with my shoes though.
I really did. And , um , but something happened where, I dunno what I think w what was the conversation where we were talking about clothing or something. I knew I needed to change my ways probably a little bit. And I , I discovered you have a talent for putting things together. Yeah. I love to go on people's closets and come up with outfits. And so I think I jumped in at that channel . And boy, did you, I lost so many clothes out of my closet.
You're still remind me sometimes of the things that you got rid of. Yeah, it was like trash bags full . It was , um , all those treasures are , were gone. So , uh , she probably needs to go through my closet again. But the beauty of it was just how she helped to where I wasn't very good at it. I've learned now as she became my stylist and help, we have a lot of fun shopping. Yeah. And I hated shopping. Yeah. But she brought joy in the shopping.
We basically restocked your closet is what I would call it. Yeah. And but she was so, she's very talented and so many different ways. But um, that was a journey that we won't talk about today. I really wanted to, to talk about , um, with your permission of what God has been doing in the last few years in your life. Yeah. Because it was after we went through that together and we're in dressing rooms and clauses together that I started feeling ill. Um, and it basically started over 10 ago.
It's been over 10 years
now. And at first it was just, I felt like I got the flu a lot and it felt like a monthly thing. I would come down with something as a mom of three boys, I thought, well, I just got sick from one of my kids again and I would blow it off. But then that developed into having some neurological symptoms and having some brain fog and then developing body wide pain. And that's when, when your body is in pain , that's when it's telling you you need to figure this out. I'm wanting attention.
So at that point I just started my search and the medical community going from doctor to doctor and I started off traditional with my internal medicine doctor and I said, something's wrong with me. I keep getting sick. Um , I'd had about four or five weeks of just solid flu like sinus infection type symptoms and he did not take me seriously. And he said, we'll call this the viral syndrome. And believe it or not, yeah , it's , this was a made up term, a blanket term.
And He , um, saw that I was stressed and anxious because I was very sick and I was worried and he gave me anxiety medicine and sent me on my way. So I was just another middle aged mom who had mystery illness who didn't get help. So he just got antidepressant. I got an anxiety medicine, which I didn't take because I knew as I sat there after he gave it to me and I said, I know I'm sick. It's from head to toe. I know there's one root cause and you're not helping me.
So I'm abdominal to another doctor. So you went, you said multiple doctors? I remember talking to 20 . Yeah. Wow. And so you had to say, I was going to say, you had to look outside of that. So , yeah. So , um , so how did you come to conclude what you had or what , how long did it take?
It took a couple of years and I did get a couple tentative diagnoses of chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia and personally inside of me, because the neurology , neurological and muscle involvement, I was scared that I had Ms. But I never admitted that to anybody because it scared me so bad. Right. You know? So , um, what ended up happening is I thought I'm a nurse. I had worked as a critical care nurse. Yes, I have some medical knowledge. I'm going to try to figure this out. God, can you help me?
So I went on doctor Google and I would spend all day online in different forums looking for symptoms that were similar to mine . Okay. And I would talk to people that I knew that were having health issues. What have you checked out? What did you find out? And Lime kept popping up. Wow . So I actually went to a doctor and said, I think I have Lyme. And she tested me but did the wrong test and she said, you don't have it. So I actually moved on for a year to other things.
Oh Wow. And it was after that that I was kind of brought back around and um, I figured out what test was at best. And I actually asked a , can you order this for me? I handed the forms to the doctor. Okay. And she said, sure. And that's when I found out I was, I was actually sued CDC positive for Lyme, which is hard to come by for a test. So I really had chronic Lyme and had had it probably for years. I don't know how long. So you don't know when you first would have had it?
No, it must have been dormant originally. I mean what can happen is you can get bet and you can think you have the flu and then it goes away and then gradually you can get sicker and sicker. And I think that's what happened with me. I do remember a bite, I don't remember it being a tick bite. I thought it was a spider by it . Okay. And it didn't have the typical, the look ring around it like a line by word. Right.
Um, but now I've seen pictures of atypical bites and I know that was it and I don't remember when that was unfortunately. Right.
Cause you know, being proactive. Like, cause I get concerned about that. Even with like my sworn my sons does all this biking and he goes camping. I'm like, yeah, like when my friends don't care what chemicals like to put on my body. Right. Protect yourself.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say I'm not an outdoors person anymore just because of that. [inaudible] so yeah .
So, okay. So when you finally, someone did finally get to the right test. Yeah. So I find that I , I have a diagnosis.
Listen , I think this is it. I am on my way to hell . I just have to figure out how to get over this. Surely there is a set protocol for Lyme disease. There's not, well I'm does anyone not? Um , it effects everybody differently. Okay. It's works kind of like an autoimmune condition. Okay. It affects your immune system. It affects every system of your body, every head to toe , everything. And I realized that , uh , there's not a set protocol. Doctors haven't quite figured out how to heal people.
There's not really a cure. You just have to get your, find your way back to help . Okay. And um, you kind of have to support your body systems while you fight the infection. And that's a hard balance to do. So if you get infection, so you have to be all truck careful then. So this is like a body wide infection from the tick. It's a bacteria. Okay . And it's not usually just one infection cause ticks carry multiple infections when they bite you.
Okay. So it's Lyme disease with what they say, co-infections meaning other things you can have babesia and Bartonella and things like that. Okay. So it's kind of a wide range and those tests are very expensive to get. So normally doctors just base it on your symptoms that you have, deciding what other infections you have along with the line. So you really have to push and be your own advocate. Yes. I don't know what I would've done if I didn't have the medical knowledge.
That's what I was gonna say. I mean you were fortunate to have a basis to work off of, but I'm not sure how other people's ,
well that, you know, may not know like where to go to research and, and there's no doctors in Tulsa that really, that treat Lyme really, I mean, you could go to an infectious disease doctor, but you wouldn't get a lot of help. So I really had to search for someone that would guide me through this process. So did you go outside
of yeah, I ended up seeing a nurse practitioner in Oklahoma City who had had Lyme herself. Okay. So having that experience really helped me because she knew what I was going through. Wow. I mean there was hope then. Yeah. Somebody got you. And they're like, there's nothing , there is something wrong. Yes. And they knew what to do well and to finally have someone to
say, yeah, you have Lyme . Like they believed me. I've felt so rejected by the medical community and I felt like I wasn't taken seriously. And she was the first one that said, yeah, this is what you have and we're going to do what we can to treat it.
Okay. So like how long ago was it then you got that, got that help? Five or six years. Okay. Yeah. So then, so what his life had been like, not just physical of just getting through the day, but what's it been like on dealing with who you have three boys and yeah. So how did you do life with as a mother ,
father and a wife? It was tough. There were a lot of ups and downs. Um, because with any chronic illness, you have times where you feel good and you have times where you feel terrible. And with Lyme , it can change day to day. So there's no, there's no control. And I'm, I'm a big control freak. So I finally realized I don't have control of my body and therefore control of my day or my life.
Um, and so what happens is you have a good patch and you get hope, I'm getting better, I'm going to get my life back. And then you'll have a downturn or a flare up of your symptoms and the disappointment comes in. And the more you go up and down and up and down, it becomes wider. And, and you get, you get great. And then you have a very big downturn. And the disappointment just really ate away at me and it ate away at my faith. Right. To be honest with you.
But , but yeah, but that's the thing I think is you're very authentic when we have talked is , um , those places where you're in between. Yeah. And you're searching. Yes. And then there's no rhyme or reason of why one day was different than another day. You did the same routine. Same , ate the same thing. Did the healthy, like I know you are going through the gluten free options, trying everything cause I do the gluten free and, but even when you do one thing, it's not a cure. All right .
Yeah . And I think what ended up happening is I had such a downturn that I ended up basically bedridden. And a lot of people didn't know that because I'm a great actor and I would fake my way through the day. But what would happen is I'd wake up and I'd get my kids off to school and I come home and I go to bed. And then I would get up to pick them up from school and go back to bed.
And then I would get up to make dinner and spend the evening watching TV in bed and then the day would start all over again. So I mean my whole mango was, I have to take care of my family. But beyond that, you know, laundry, dishes, food, that was it. Right. So , um, it became very lonely, very isolating. And I started to probably even isolate myself the Lord because I felt like he wasn't there for me. Wow. I was really disappointed.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you have that place where you're like, you don't know where your hope is. Exactly. I think that that's a very low point. Yes . Yes .
So when you, I mean , I'm sure cause you talk about those waves, that's
still is a possibility of, yeah. The days are up and down, but I think the more disappointment you have, the more you lose hope and the more you're afraid to hope [inaudible] because if I get my hopes up and then what if it happens again? So that even goes in with treatment because then you think, well, do I really want to do that treatment? And what if it doesn't work? I can't handle another treatment and I'm working. Right. You know? Yeah. And the possibilities to look ahead of you, but yes .
But on the other side of it, you don't know. Yeah. If that's your last, right. Yeah.
You know , I think even at that, you know, I know I leave on and my mother being ill, I was , I was too is how people, when they know anything about what's going on in your life, how did they react or respond to you when they finally maybe realize, boy, she's not doing well.
You know, because I was an actor in public, a lot of people didn't know how bad it was. Um, and then I, at times I would just break down and then I would be embarrassed. Okay . Because I would cry in front of people and I went and they would be like, what's wrong? And , and then you have to explain.
And then, so then you, you try not to get in situations like that because it's embarrassing because with chronic illness there's a lot of shame that goes with it because it, with me, I thought, why can't I get better? I see this other girl who had Lyme better after a year or this one after six months. Okay, what's wrong with me that I can't get better? Okay .
But that comparison is such a attack that the enemy uses against us. You know, and when we start comparing ourselves in that capacity, we miss out. What God may be wanting to do for us too is to have that community to help you know, link arms with you. Yeah. But even though I think you know, you and I've talked about it, even at that, the people that should have been the closest that you struggle to the community that community should have had. It was a difficult even at that.
Yeah. When you don't feel well, you don't want to be around people. Right. And that's when you need people. So it's kind of a catch 22 so I felt very isolated and I will say some of that was on me. I did isolate myself. Um, but I also realized that people don't know what to do with the chronically ill. If you have cancer, they're familiar with that disease. Sure. So they know what to do with that.
But when you have some kind of mystery illness and it goes on for a long time, sometimes people get tired of it. And so then I started feeling like they're tired of me talking about being sick, so I'm just not going to say anything anymore. Wow. And it just became very isolating and I got really lonely and I dealt with a lot of rejection and I just kind of have a, it's easy for me to feel rejected. That's just part of my personality. Okay. So that hit hard for me.
And so I, a lot of friendships kind of went by the wayside. And , um, that's probably another podcast to be honest,
right. Because, you know, one of the things that I remember when we got together one time and had been a while , and I thought when I sat there in your, you know, having coffee with you, I thought, wow, what did I, what have I missed? And I really went back home thinking like, Lord, I've experienced , um, with my parents, both of them. And I'm like, wow, what lord do we need to be more intentional if we know that there's anything wrong? Cause I, my mother's I with rheumatoid.
Yeah. Um, you know, it's just a chronic, it's for life. Um , there is no escaping it. And you know, I think two is you have all the people , um , wanting to believe for hope and health and healing and the miracle, but in the midst of it, however God chooses to heal us , um, is you still have to walk out the journey and we don't know.
I mean, just like you said, one person that gets better after one year is you don't know how God chooses, you know, and I think that that is having the belief to live for another day.
Well , you have to find purpose and suffering, I think. And I really was suffering. I mean to have the physical symptoms and you know, just the pain and the fatigue. I mean, climbing my stairs to get to my laundry room. I was short of breath and had to sit down before I could go and do laundry. Wow. Um, you know, just so much pain that I would just lay still in my bed. In fact, Brennan and I laugh about it. My husband, yeah. He would come in and make sure I was still breathing.
That's how bad it. Wow. So it's funny now, but at the time it was pretty serious. And then the emotional pain of the isolation , um , grieving a life lost because I was in this no man's land where I couldn't do anything. I couldn't move on in life. I was just trying to get better. Just survive. Right? You know, you're not thriving anymore. You're just surviving.
And then, you know, the loss of friendships , um, the loss, the feeling rejected by the medical community, all that played in to part of this deep disappointment and grief and depression that I went through and I got to a point where I decided this suffering can either destroy my faith. I can let that happen, right? Because I'm angry with God and he's not hearing me and I'm calling out and I'm not hearing anything.
Or I can let it deepen my faith and I can really dig in and really decide what I believe. Right. You know, and, and get to know the character of God. So I think he was just waiting for me to open up those dark parts of my heart. Wow. I was hiding these emotions of anger and doubt cause I was ashamed because you don't hear about that because the shame
in your mind was because you had a disease.
Because I couldn't get better. And because I had doubt in God and I never had that. Okay . That was new to me. [inaudible] you know, I've been a strong Christian for years and I done what I was supposed to do and things didn't work out. So it kind of flipped my faith upside down. Okay. Because what I had read and believed, my whole life wasn't really happening in my life and I felt like God was silent and he'd forgotten me. Hmm . So , um, I just started, I'm a researcher. I read, I go online.
I just started reading every book I could on suffering and doubt and how does that fit in with our faith. Wow. And I found a really couple good ones that really helped me out my point. What did you find? One's called room for doubt. I can't remember the author, but it's, I would highly recommend it. Okay. And one is , um , by Tim Keller and it's called , um, oh, it's something about doubt and suffering. We'll find it, we'll post it, we'll find it. Yeah .
Something about pain and suffering and doubt . And so I began a journey back to the lord and I got to know his character and his goodness and his faithfulness and the fact that he's trustworthy, even in difficult circumstances and he never changes. Um , you know, my faith had changed, but he was always there. Right. I just, I just wasn't feeling it. So, you know ,
had that opportunity where you got showed up or like where you're aware of it, I think I finally surrendered to him and said, okay, whatever it is that I need to learn through this process, can I hurry up and learn it ? I'll scan over this trial. Yeah. Like vacation time. Let's just get over learn quicker. But you know, that's really true. Like that is our life though. I mean, our life is full of trials and it isn't , I mean, I think sometimes we think we see it so many scriptures on joy.
You're like, how is her possible join this? Yeah, I mean I , I don't know, I think you have to compare scripture with scripture that, you know, a joy of the Lord becomes our strength, but it's a different kind of joy. It's not the Hahaha necessarily, but there is joy in knowing who he is in my life, where I'm at in my circumstances and trusting him that every day I have to trust him. I have to trust and get up and,
and walk through your pain. And I'll say that I always wanted to avoid suffering in my life. I don't know why that was a big deal to me growing up. Yeah, I would see people suffering. I say, man, I do not want that. And I would avoid the book of job like it was on fire,
you know? And it's now one of my favorite books of the Bible. So it's really funny how God works things out like that. Well, you know, it's funny because I think I recently said I don't want to be job's wife. You don't really want to job . I really don't want to be her. So, but I would just friends cause they were terrible. They were not nice either. I agree. Yeah . We should still have void that void . It's not good. It doesn't have a great Indian . Well it does have a good ending.
It just miserable throughout most of it. Yeah . Yeah. But I think it's the beauty of learning though is learning, suffering physical, but it was emotional at the same. You are struggling in both realms. That had to be like, how, how was that with your family unit then with when you're going through that or did you stay so quiet?
They didn't, your boys didn't know or , I kept a lot of this from my boys and I probably shouldn't have, but I didn't want to have it affect their growing up years, you know, I didn't, I didn't want them to feel any worse for me than they already did. Okay. And also, I felt bad as a parent that I couldn't be there for them at everything. And in every circumstance I would try to do that. But you know, you feel like a failure at times. So that was hard to deal with.
And , um, I found a couple of friends that were there for me that I could really be vulnerable with. And I think that's important. I'm a big believer in the fact that we connect through brokenness. That's good. And that's part of my problem with Facebook and social media is that people put the good stuff of their lives on there and that's all we see and we don't see most of the time the struggles and the hardships. And that's really what's true . You know, it's where you and I have connected.
We talk about those tough things and I, and it's hard to be vulnerable with people, but it always reaps wonderful rewards.
I agree. You know , that's one of the things I think if we'd knew on the other side of being vulnerable. Yeah. I think that we're so blinded by the possibility of rejection. Yeah, no, that we , we refrain from that potential not knowing if they would reject, you know, even in their friendship of being willing.
And that's when I think the heart, even with I refresh, is when I've had friends that have known that I want to pray with them until, and you've come and I want you, I want to keep praying until something happens. And then that's my heart. And that I think that if we all knew that we want to go on the journey together, and so what if it's a good day or bad day? Everyone has it . But your journey is a lot different.
And to be able to have people always around to be able to be that support, you know, when somebody can even text us or just in that encouraging moment, you know, when we filled that prompting, there's sometimes we feel a prompting to connect with someone who really need to know that that's a holy spirit tugging at us and do it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't think it does . Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And that's where I am so grateful that Carrie , um, I'm, I've been learning and I continue to learn of the journey that you've been walking through that, you know, it's hard and it makes me sad. And like, part of me in turn wants to rescue you. You know? Um, I also know that, you know, Carrie's been monumental in my own personal life and going through my own, my own little things and weird things of finding her friendship and acceptance.
Um, when I felt so inferior to you and I think we, like I was painting a picture of how you were, who knows that that was when you were hurting at that time. I'm not even sure, but in my mind's eye I had a different viewpoint. I was so intimidated by you and she made me feel so comfortable. And I think if we can break through our thought process and realize how much more we can enjoyed yeah .
And probably had more freedom and find so much more probably fulfillment and what God intended us to be with each other.
I think, yeah, I think we have to be vulnerable and that's really hard to take that first step. But being vulnerable and connecting is the only way that you get rid of the shame because then everything's out in the open and there's nothing to be ashamed of. I take the power away. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we do get inside of our heads sometimes and we assume someone's thinking something when they're not. It's rarely true.
Yeah. What is something that you would want to tell our audience that , um , just to encourage them? Um, I would say that even in the midst of difficult circumstances that God never leaves you . I would say that he'll never fail you. That he can be trusted through difficult things and that there's hope because of that. Um, I would say that we have no control over life and its circumstances and the only way that I get through the day now is to surrender every morning.
Okay. God, whatever you have for me. Because yeah , we might think we have control and we really don't. He does. Okay . Sovereign, we have to trust in a sovereignty and we have to know that , um, you know, if you go through a dark night of the soul, hopefully on the other side of that, there is a stronger and deeper relationship with the Lord. That's how I feel. I feel like it's, he's in every marrow, every sinew of my body now. And I, I trust in his character and I know he doesn't change.
So because of that, I have hope. That's really cool .
Powerful . And you know, one of the things, so too , I want us to, those you may have known someone who's , uh, gone through something in one , uh , misdiagnosis, not even getting a diagnosis correctly. I mean, I, we could go on to another episode because my own son , uh , was written off here in town to , um, give up baseball and it wasn't over. I just didn't come in.
It took a long time to find the right cure for what was going on in him and yet doing what you were doing, research and research and research. And I think that we need to realize its , it's hope in God is prayer. It's asking God for wisdom. Yes. I mean, I really think it's, even when we're going out there and you call it Dr Google is, is asking God lead me to where there are answers because there's a right connection that we're supposed to have for the answers that we need.
And I would really encourage you, definitely I want you to connect with us. We really want to hear about how you may be going through a struggle. If it's like Lyme disease, let's continue the dialogue. I think it be great to have Carrie come back on with us and, and talk about even just that, that aspect of an undiagnosed and how she felt within community. Not , um, to talk down about the community, the medical community. But we all have to work together.
We can't just , um, you know, prescribed something when we really, truly don't know what's going on and let's work together and encourage , um, the knowledge that will help to even just give normal answers for what she's going through. And definitely trusting God in the meds. I think bar none if it wasn't for the help and help of God.
I mean, I don't, no matter where we're going through in life, we need God to direct us, to strengthen us, encouraging us, and then realize God actually brings people and our pathway that really helps us to be able to press through and hope and God, you know, and be willing to be authentic with each other and vulnerable and realizing shame is, is powerless when we begin to communicate with each other.
So I just want you to recognize with us that you know, God is there for whatever you're walking through. He truly is a mighty God that generally loves you. And I know that many of you are struggling, whether it's in a medical field or emotional. God is with you and we want to hear from you. So be sure to subscribe to our podcast and connect with us. We truly want to hear what you have to say, where you're at, and maybe you haven't overcome it yet. Well, let us hear from you.
We want to connect you , even with Carrie and given you inspiration, helping you press room. It's not just physical what you have to press through, but it's emotional. It's relationships that God wants you to be able to walk through, even in suffering. God wants you to walk through that until then, go change your world.
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