Tracking Anna w/ Scriberia

of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host, Stacy Wilson Hunt, and with me today are three legends of the theater world, Anna Davie Smith, Terry Kenny and Jeff Perry, who play scarberreas Maud, Barry and Lou In case you've forgotten, Scriberria is the nickname of the back corner of Manhattan Magazine, whereas Vivian says, the bosses quote

send the old writers to die. But these irascible, hilarious characters not only end up being key to vivian success, They've also become some of the series biggest fan favorites. Welcome everyone. I have to say I'm not supposed to play favorites in this podcast, but I am particularly giddy about having the three of you on a show. Just today on Twitter, somebody tweeted me and Shawnda and said I would totally watch a show just with the scribe

area people. So I'm just saying, keep it, keep it as an option, and I would love to know how has the fan reaction to scribe area felt to you, Jeff, have you been hearing any rumblings of fandom on your end? Oh my god, A lot of friends and family have chimed in with big love on the scribe area, miss of the shows and how much of it was shocked that I was employed and they were trying to encourage encourage me whatever. But but anyway, I said, Seanna, it's just been such a gift man won And what are

people particularly liking? What have you heard from people about what resonates so much with these characters? Hey, my two cents, I want to hear from men and tear um. From the very first reading, I felt kind of audience e of this is a really fun conception, something about this little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia. I think Anna took issue with you using the word old just now, by the way, sorry sorry I was the only old one. Sorry veteran let's say veteran um.

It just felt like it really worked off the page, and oh, this is gonna be so fun to be able to do. And then when I heard it was with Anna da Vere, who I had been a fan of for years and years and years, and then that it was my boyhood buddy, Terry Kenney. I was like, oh my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. I got to gush to people too of did you know, because he usually was friends or family have known me for

fifty years? Did you know that this is Terry and my pretty much first camera work ever in our decades. I was actually going to bring that up, which I found to be a stunning discovery. Terry, walk me through this. How is it possible you've never shared the screen with your old buddy? I don't know. I mean our friends making movies. You think they'd put us both in there like Gary, you know, put put me in a small role. But there where was Jeff? Not nowhere to be found.

I did small bit of trivia direct Jeff in my first feature. I did a feature and Jeff had a really nice role in it. But that's about it. And I would love for those who don't know your storied history as co founders of Steppenwolf, Terry, tell me when you first met Jeff and how that relationship grew into this venerable institution in Chicago. I was at Illinois State University and Jeff came in in an orientation and he had really messed up hair and dirty glasses and a

flannel shirt. I just thought, I like this guy. I just I just saw him. I was in class, was supposed to be paying attention, but I just zoned in on him as a friend. And it was turned out to be true, because he he showed up the following year and maybe the first day we just connected and he came over to our house and I just think he never left. We were together the rest of college, you know, just hanging out. That's how I got to know Gary through him. And this is Gary Sinise for

those who are wondering who Gary is here? Oh yes, Gary Sinise. After my sophomore year in Jeff's freshman he said, would you like to come live in my parents basement and then do Rosenkrats and Gilling sn or dead. I said, yeah, sure, and so we we did that. We did it in a Unitarian church and that was our first step in wolf play. It was two years before we started the theater with our college friends. I love that. That is so inspiring. And speaking of theater, Anna herself a staple

of theater. What were you doing at the time these fellows were doing their college antics in the basement, etcetera. First of all, I just have to say that I didn't know the story about those college antics until being with these two gentlemen in in hair and makeup. And I tell it all the time because I'm still a teacher. I teach at your university, and I just say, you know, just like give them a basement and have it opened.

Isn't that also the case y'all? That it was like you could just go into the theater all day or night, just leave the door open, and something's gonna happen. Because they made Stepan will End, they made remarkable careers, like the whole group of them. So I do tell that story all the time myself. I don't know what year was that, three four, five six, Well, I was at the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco studying, and uh,

actually they did give me the keys. I have to say, the friends of a CT, who were these sort of you know, women wearing Papa galos and khaki skirts and doing all good things for the theater and probably raising money, they did give me the keys to their office because I didn't I didn't have a typewriter, and I could go in there and use the typewriter until they arrived

at ten o'clock in the morning. So I did have a version of that which allowed me to write my first play at a CT early in the morning with those keys. I love that. All we need is a basement, right, Okay, you just need keys somewhere. Jeff, I'd love to talk to you about your visit to New York Magazine in preparation to play this part. And Jessica Pressler, of course, the amazing journalist who wrote the piece that inspired the show. She gave an interview recently where she talked about your visit,

and she said this quote. When Jeff arrives, Mark Jacobson, who is a legend, looks at him and says, the great thing about being a journalist is that you aren't impressed by anybody. Unfortunately, Jeff didn't seem to be offended that he wasn't the center of attention. I love this because I've been a journalist for twenty years. There's something so wonderful about having to be stone faced about everything you see in here throughout your day, because if you're affected,

you really can't do your job. Properly. I'm wondering what did you learn from Mark and also being there that day that helped inform your character. Yes, so look at here's quick notes that are from January, which must have been right around the time that Jessica did me this gift of come with your little tape recorder and dada, dada. You're paid for what you're right, so you can go weeks telling your editors you don't have a story that you love at the moment. Like a baseball team, you

all you might all have different contracts. You have a difficult dance of getting people to talk having explained your angle, but the story can change on you. You have numerous irons in the fire because you don't know which stories are gonna pay it out. You get assignments and you pitch your own. You get typecasts as a journalist, as a writer for good or ill artistically, just as actors do based on successes. You sometimes get assigned stuff in

a colleague's wheelhouse because they're busy and you're not. Usually help each other with your roll at ex contacts if asked by fellow witer writers like documentary creators, you've fallen in love at some early age with nonfiction, with listening to other human stories, you learn, sometimes the hard way and sometimes slowly, that listening is much more valuable to your task than talking. You love research, detection, and the hard part is usually putting that research into the form

of a story. The rewriting, the back and forth of editor notes is relatively an easier process. If you get flowers from a subject, you've probably not done your job. That is so brilliant. So those were the notes, and Terry and Anna, what felt familiar to the two of you? About what Jeff shared in terms of how it relates to your craft as actors. There's a lot of overlap here, right,

tell me, Terry, what felt familiar to you? I mean, it's a highly competitive thing, and it said the pay scales, you know, you don't know what anybody else is making. Your status gets uh interrupted by what you haven't done for a while. Your type cast to write certain stories. If you write about glamorous people, they make you do that, and you may have a think piece on something else you want to do, but they're not very interested in that. What you did last is usually the offers you get next.

It's similar with acting, and it becomes important if you want to change it up, to turn those down if you can, and then do something completely different the next time. I love that. And you really do have to assert yourself to and say I can do more than what you think I can. That's what really resonated with me and watching the show. It was having to remind your bosses, I'm not just one thing, right. And Anna, I know you've actually done a fair amount of interviewing in your job,

in your many capacities as an academic. Tell me what you knew about interviewing as an art form, and tell me what you learned about this craft from preparing to play this character. Well, I actually traveled on the I was hired by Newsweek to travel on the Clinton presidential campaign and on the Dole campaign in nineties six, and so I traveled with the press corps, and uh, I got a chance to, you know, meet a lot of journalists and just live that life, which is very hard,

especially following a campaign. You really don't you know in that way, it's like acting. I mean you're kind of like in captivity to production, right as somebody gave me the advice, you know, p and when you can because you don't know when you're gonna be able to do it again. And I had a very good friend, Elizabeth Knew For the Lady Elizabeth Knew for who was a war correspondent and she covered Rwanda and Bosnia Kosovo and

was actually killed in Iraq. Terrible. I'm so sorry. One of the things that I felt about Elizabeth when we became friends was just okay, so she can sleep anywhere and eat anything right, And it's that sort of toughness that I thought about in creating my character for this. But I would say that for all of us, you know, we're after the story to be a part of the story somehow. That's what we all have in common with journalists, I would say actors in journalists. I love that. So

story is really at the core of both of these crofts. Yeah, okay, please stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors, and we're back. I'd love to just start walking through some scenes because there's so much to work with and each of you have such great insights to share. So I'd love to start with episode one and we get to see how scribe area relates to authority. You went to Rikers and it answered your letter. You went to rikers. Yes you went rogue, Good girl, fight the power of woman,

keep your voices, dond your bones for bread. When you catch his hand the stone, he's not gonna catch you. Stop pumping your pillages and get over here and help them. And that really tells us from episode one, Oh, is this why they're inscribe area? Because they don't play nice? Do they not like to kind of play the politics of nice employee to their bosses? So tell me, Terry, how do you think this scene sets us up? Well?

I think we're being into deduced as people that have been banished to the periphery in our own little cubical world because a they can't fire us. We all have Pulitzers, and secondly, we have no fox left to give. We don't answer to anybody, you know, and the suits that are coming down and giving us these bullshit assignments that we don't want to even do. We don't have to respect them. We don't have to respect them to their

face or behind their backs. So I think that's what it sets up is a group of people that, you know, this young woman who was a successful writer and maybe made a mistake is banished to Scriberia and we are immediately attracted to her rogue energy, right. And it's interesting because Vivian's character, she's kind of nestled between the generations. She's not in full Scriberian mode, but she's not one of the new bees. And it's almost like is having

this middle career crisis. Jeff, how do you think that this scene sort of establishes that for us? Yeah, I mean we're in an age where long form journalism, and in fact all of journalism, is facing such existential threat. But just look at long form journalism where to exaggerate only slightly, only the Twitter twelve words or whatever the whatever it's maximum is, you know, can get anybody's attention.

And I think I always assume that the three of us, in our own way felt such you know, sympathy, love, passion, um, God, damn it, it shall not vanish from the face of the earth. And there's somebody in their thirties who actually gives a shit about it and has talent and wants to stay here and not work for Twitter or whatever. Right,

she's worth fighting for. Right, And we see Vivian railing against this idea of clickbait and pushing back on the Me to Wall Street story because she's saying, this isn't the story we want to tell. And it's so inspiring to see her having that interaction with her boss, and as uncomfortable as it is in the moment, I think

that's what gives them the respect for her ultimately. And an episode three, speaking of authority, we see the very funny scene with Vivian and Anna's characters shopping for underwear for Anna, and Maud says, Paul was an intern when I was writing cover stories. Do you know what you tell Paul? Tell him the sun? And Maud really is this wonderful mentor figure for Vivian throughout as the other woman in this scenario. And Anna tell me, how are

you playing that scene with Vivian? And and first of all, how much fun were those moments? Well, I don't know how much fun that was. I think our call that day was something like three am, because you know, they had to shut down Burgdorfs, had to get to Burgdorfs, had to very expense if you can imagine, and get it done before you know, whatever time that the people come to Burgdorf survivor six hundred dollar purses or hundred

prants or whatever, so there was that. You know. Um, I think that somebody like Maud, I mean, let's face it, she probably really had to fight her way into this business from the very beginning. I think about somebody who I met on that campaign trail that I told you about, the late gent Eiffel, right, who was at the New York Times, and then you know, on TV and stuff like that, and you know, let's face it, you know, we are the people who are not in hair and makeup.

We're not the glam journalists on television. All three of us were the people who had to fight to get the story. And you know, I think those type of journalists don't like authority anyway, because part of journalism is to question authority and to question power. I really not to go for power, so you bring that into everything, and you know, I just want her to know that this guy is just like a fly that you've got to learn how to swat him away stand up for yourself.

And it's hard too, because I think, especially a character like Vivian who's a woman, we are raised to respect authority. We are raised to not speak too much, we are raised to oh that's my assignment okay, thank you. And it's just as a woman who's been in this business, it's so fun to see her say no, no, no, this is the story that is worth my time. And that's what I think is such a great takeaway from Vivian.

And I know we've all been in that situation where we have to fight just telling someone, trust me, this is worth telling. And I'm sure as actors too, you've had specially Terry if you've made a movie, anyone who's had to sell a project, and it's all your plays. It's a lot of convincing, right, I mean, just showing up for an audition, you have to look like you're having a good time, but what you're really there too is to embody convincing. For me, I hate auditioning. I

don't know about these two gentlemen. But it's enduring the thing. It's endurance death, yes, aproposal that the actor uh Emmett Walsh. I was on my first job as an actor and very young. It was a mini series and I was playing the main person because I just got it was like the lotto, and he came up to me and we were going through, you know, all of the pre production. He goes, what are you playing kids? And I said, oh,

I'm playing this guy, you know. And he goes, oh, you're the guy, and he goes, did you have to audition? And I said, yeah, I did audition. He goes, that's what I called dancing on the head of a pin. I always thought of it that way. Afterwards. It's such a delicate thing to maintain and not get discouraged and keep wanting to show up. You have a hard job, so just know that we acknowledge that. Well, it's not hard though, when you're when you get the job right,

Jeff writing, Yeah, yeah, we had nothing but fun. I think it shows. I mean I look at it, and usually I can't look at anything where my body shows up, But in this case, I just remembered the fun of the day so much. And when we crack up on camera, we were cracking up, you know. We we cracked each other up a lot, and that was rare and and fun. So it wasn't it like work? Oh yeah, that was

that is a rarer, I mean somewhat rare. And they look, look, we're grateful for all sorts of work we've gotten to do, and you love it and it is your fuel, but this one is really kind of rare in like that

was all fun, right. So, something that's come up online among fans of inventing Anna is this idea of Vivian's colleagues being so supportive of her in environments where we're so used to people being at each other's throats and being very competitive, And there's a great moment where she comes back to the office and you really see them kind of surrounding her with this you know, virtual hug where they really feel protective of her. What Dalovan Lamb

gave an interview about you. America Investigative is doing a show about bad journalism, and one of the subjects is you maybe I'm fine, Hey, it's okay, fine, I um, I am fine. You want to see the promo? Get it over with. Is it a generational thing for maybe the older veteran folks to feel more supportive and protective of the younger folks or is this something that you feel sort of baked into this environment. What are your thoughts, Terry, I would say it's baked into the environment. I don't

think it's anything generational. What's generational is that we don't have to be political about what we like and what we don't like, and we like her. We like that she's banished. We like that she's found mout. We like that she's passionate, driven, that she's got a story she wants to tell. She's being told absolutely not, you're not doing it. Move over to the other story. And she's saying, I'm not going to do that. That's our kind of person.

We love. She's banished, right, I mean, so there's already there's something about us that's not normal, right, I mean, we were banished, and I think we protect her because she needs protecting. We know, Paul, and we swooped down as the you know, the larger eagles or whatever and fend off predators. Besides, we do have generational old school values. And so there's this weird you know, like, my character is a complete misogynist, you know, really, is that how

you read her? Really? Oh? He's yes, that's how the other Scriberians read him to. He's constantly talking about how she's pregnant and what are we going to do about that? You know, the baby's gonna come shoot it out of her ruchie or whatever. He says. He's protective for that reason too, because you know, he doesn't think she can do both things at once or something. He's just had no exposure. He's just been in foreign lands around gun

fire all his life. And in that same episode, um Anna, you have the fantastic line where you say, we didn't want to inscribe area, but you're here and you're not a revolting millennial. I have to imagine that people specifically thirty five and older, forty and older. There isn't anyone who's been in a workplace who hasn't had to adjust with a new generation coming in, right, right, right, First of all, I just loved the way what Terry just said.

We love that she's banished. That's number one. Number two, she does not completely disrespect us, no right, and so I think you know, our job thinking about the way Terry said that is to make Criberia the best part of the room, to make it cool. And she's a good person to have a long for that. She has all the right criteria. It's a form of rebellion. Right to love that which is banished and create a space of love in that and care in there, you know,

which is the antithesis of what Paul does. Don't go anywhere there's more behind the scenes of inventing Anna right after this. Okay, ready to hear more. You know what's so interesting though, These banished individuals are really what gives these magazines their cachet and credibility. So it's sad in a sense that these people would ever feel banished when they are really at the heart of these organizations. Does that feel familiar to you in in terms of theater

and the work that you've done. Oh my god. A playwright that Terry and I grew up with, Lanford Wilson, may he rest in beautiful theater piece. But he has one of one of his striking plays called Balman Gilead, and it's a collection of people he called hustas, transvestite, small town crooks, most people not able to rub two nickels together, all moving in and out of an all night diner. And he gave one phrase describing the whole milieu is going These are losers who refuse to lose.

And when Terry and I think of the things that we have been drawn to for years, and it could be John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, it could be bomb and Gilliad, it could be mice and men. It could be all sorts of all sorts, of different kinds of expression. A commonality are three legged dogs. The human condition of while you are, you are endangered, um and yet you still are finding some way to survive, you know.

And I think we've always had great empathy for that, right, And it's just a it's a matter of we've always just been attracted to the stories of the of the peripheral. Laurie Metcalfalan said that we tell the story of the person that you crossed the street to avoid one way

or another. We've been infected with that. And I think we found a soulmate in Anna that we understood this being on the far end, away from everything somebody else might have been offended by, as a kind of a safe zone, a safe zone to do whatever we want whenever we want it, and to show up whenever we want. You know, Anna, did you have something to add? I love that idea of the people who refuse to lose.

And I'm very all my workers about the disenfranchise. And I like to look at the world upside down of a dramatist. I like catastrophe. I think that most people walking around are performing and don't know it, and so I'm very interested in the unperformed, like the person who

refuses to perform the bourgeois of the middle class. And I'm attracted to suffering not for suffering sake, but I think that sometimes people who really have a drama or a crisis in their own life have something very beautiful to share. So I always want to be around to be able to hear that. People who would be screaming something from the mountaintop, whatever it is, I just want to be passing by when that happens, because so much

of the rest of it is about being obedient. On that note, the perfect segue to what I wanted to talk about next, which is how scarb Area feels about Anna delb And we see their feelings about her start with kind of like oh whatever, this cookie party girl, and you almost see them getting caught up and supporting her in a sense and liking her, Yeah, sticking it to the man sort of antics. Kind of stole a fucking jet. Listen, Anna never paid no card, no wire

or nothing. She actually stole a plane. Latest pressing charges and working with the d A. They're saying she scamming. How do you steal a plane. I can't scam an extra legum seat from Celta, but this kid is scamming a private jet to Omaha. Kudos, Jeff, Tell me how you felt about that. There's an aspect of this story.

Part of it is arguably an indictment of, Oh my god, the environment we've created where someone is just gonna fake it, fake it, fake it, and be all about appearance, and be all about a roll of one hundred dollar bills and be all about what am I wearing and what purse do I have? And what occasion am I showing up to and how many selfies get on Instagram and that edit. And at the same time there was this

undeniable scale had a very interesting plan. She speaks, how many languages, she does, what and what she convinced how many thirty, forty, fifty, sixty and seventy year olds deep into their own niche of profession, whether it's in art collecting, yacht collecting, real estate, private wealth management, d D D d D banks that this was a good idea. And you go, wait a competitor to Soho House based on this and based on that and based on it, that's a good business plan. So in a sense Scarberius, the

sort of a kinship with her. Yeah, there's something that you know, there's something about it. There's a duality to Anna, and it's exemplified in uh in the final episode in the trial stuff where Todd says, look, I know there's Frank Sinatra fans here. You do realize that he staged faintings and ambulance is showing up and this and that to create the mystique of his genius and terry. Do you think that your characters were rooting for Anna to be found innocent, the idea that someone like her could

get away with this. It's almost like they were waiting to hear the score of their favorite sports team as those slacks were coming through. Guilty, Hotel guilty, w Hotel guilty, Dan Hotel guilty. Well that's them, and they were really let down by the results. Well, they were hoping against hope. You know, the more you learn about someone, the more

you know. And they got into her childhood, they knew, they knew that there were scars that created the person, but they also knew, you know, the patriarchy are out there with other people's money all the time. It's kind of easy for them. It wasn't at all easy for her. So yes, my character personally was definitely rooting for her to get off because she was an anarchist and her eccentricity only made money people trust her more. How brilliant

you know, everyone still wants to know. They can watch the entire thing and then they go, no, wait, how did she have all those hundred dollar bills? I mean, it's explained, but it's kind of hard to absorb absolutely exactly how she convinced people that she had the money. But tipping is a very good way to make people

think you have a lot of money. I'd love to talk about a scene that Jeff and Anna Klumsky have in the bathroom, seeing how conflicted Vivian is about betraying her scribe area friends for the better Office landed off for me in office next to Paul's a girl movie, a scrape area. That's the goal, Vivian, it was mine the white dress, animar h took it out of my closet. Lou yep and Jeff, In terms of the prep that you did with Anna Klumsky, it sounds like you really

worked that scene a lot. What what kind of conversations did you have with her about that scene. I know was impressed with all freelance project work that you throw yourself into. It has this very often inevitable depression at the end of it. I think in the scene she says something like, what do I do now? Sort of that high of the story had dissipated. She's had her baby, these two things that she was giving to really at the same time. Yeah, and it's lovely. It's got lovely

little levels and not that many words. I think writing wise, you know that that she says in a few different ways. I promised her fame I delivered to a great extent, and I knew that one real possibility was that fame is gonna land you in jail and lead me to an office and to a bigger salary and to everything I want. But in the age of influencer, fame is money.

I think she's struggling with that equation. You know, something just came to me, And this is actually perfect for my final question, which I'd love for Anna to answer. This idea of an influencer. I think this term has become so negative, right. I think there is such a thing as positive influence, and what we see Vivian fighting for throughout the show is the preservation of grammar and

stories and the written word. So if we see her as almost like an influencer in her own right, Anna, what do you think we can do as a culture to make sure that we preserve storytelling, we preserve the written word. That yes, Instagram can exist and TikTok can exist, but someone like you can still write your plays and make sure they get made and that people see this

and appreciate this EON's old art form that is so important. Well, I think that Shonda Rhymes is one of the world's most influential storytellers, and I think that the storytelling speaks for itself in this project, And I think Shonda's history of storytelling and how her stories have affected people and

have affected our culture speaks for itself. It's Shonda and her ability to bring around her great storytellers is in and of itself something that's out there that I think, whether people are completely aware of it or not, they understand what it means to be attracted to a story. You know, going from a friend of mine who was a former Melissa had a former U S attorney who was just addicted to this to Janelle, who works in my doctor's office, who I called to speak to my doctor, said,

everybody's watching it. You know that that this story has that kind of appeal that people are addicted to a great story. And you couldn't have told this story in whatever number of characters on Twitter. So I think that that has an influence right there. It is so beautifully, said Anna, And such a wonderful way to wrap this up and really put a nice bow on it. And Terry,

did you have anything to add Well? The only thing I was thinking about you because I've been thinking about it ever since somebody one of one of us said Greek chorus. And I've always loved Greek choruses. And I think we were given the exposition of this story. We are the audience in a way, learning things and sending out that information. I can tell you as an actor that usually exposition is presented in an awkward, clumsy way,

and especially on television, it's difficult. It's hard to remember because you're not invested in it's just information that has to get out there. I think Shanda did that really well. And I think back to what the origins of Greek chorus was and it was the dithorems, right, that were these hymns that big masses of people did, and it was all for Diane Issus at the time. And then Thespis came in and walked out and joined the play from the chorus, and that became tragedy, you know, So

so now Greek choruses were involved with tragedy. I think there's a lot of both of those things in this story. You know, all of her Folly and Oliver Champagne and all this stuff, and then all of this tragedy and we were there for all of it. That the evolution of our characters and the chorus part of it, I

think had much to do with that. And I want to just add one little tiny thing, which I think is either Shanda's work, Linda's work, Betsy Bear's work, Somebody's work, to give exposition to the three of us who have been around so long. I felt of us like jazz musicians really because of the opportunity for me to work with people of this this skilled is that the exposition felt less like trying to sing the song we all know, right,

the exposition song, and then and then and then. And that's why that's why is spinning it off of these two felt like being what I would imagine it would be like to be in a jam session. And so that's a beautiful thing about this medium, this visual media, that there's the story and then there are all of these other people who come in to make it work

a certain way. I love that well. I want to thank all of you for being here and letting us fan out over scribe area, because I have to say, I can see these kids get in their own show someday. So let's let's keep that talk alive. I'm ready. I'm ready. Oh my god, that would be a gift. There's a yes, there's a there's a line in the Arthur Miller play The Price where Solomon, you know, he says, oh, please just come back another time, and Solomon goes, if I

should live? That's how I feel. Well. May we all live and thrive and stay well. And again, thank you all for your time. I know you're very busy, so we really appreciate it. Thank you, Bye bye, nice to be together. Thank you, Stacy, thank you so much for listening. Next week, we hear from Emmy winning costume designer Lynn Powlow about how she recreated Anna Delvie's signature looks for television.

Anna was a chameleon, and she used every tool she could to become whatever was acceptable, whoever was acceptable in a given situation. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, Share with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. All that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging Shonda Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. We don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman,

Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder and I'm your host Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.