This is Into the Singleverse with Raj Verma Unfiltered conversations about the latest trends and the tangible effects of real-time data on pivotal industries, our daily lives, and the future of our world. ago and you know AI ethics and uh was a big part of a conversation as well. What are your views on on ethics AI governance and compliance in a regulatory body etc?
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records that that the country has. So 100% I completely agree that there are so so many inherent biases that are already prevalent in the data sets that we use to train the LLMs that you're right that job is a very secure job with the future.
One of the things that I was part of at Davos was talking about the global regulation and the three centers of those global regulations are going to be the US and I'm sure you spend time with RTS or die and EU and China and I think it was Brad Smith of Microsoft who put it very well that I don't think any one of those three want the next world war to be started by machines or our identity to be misused by machines.(...) However the difference between the EU manifesto and
the Chinese manifesto is the difference between Socrates and Confucius. You know basically how do you want to regulate society and with America and you know sort of the home of the free and land of the brave sort of concept of freedom it's just very different regulations. Are you hopeful that there would be a global regulation around AI in the next 12 months? (Inaudible) Yeah I tend to agree
with that. Yeah (Inaudible) I tend to agree and more about what's happening as you call one of the most consequential years in journalism which I tend to agree with you but you're also uniquely qualified based on some of the books you've written about economics and just your your training the economics of AI specifically where do you see the economics of AI play out in the next three to five years and there is the next question which is you know your views on
the circular economics of the valley are fascinating to me so love love to hear about that as well yeah I also see, you know, more unrest coming, right? You will have job categories that are transformed, wiped out. You will have people needing to switch their professions, evolve their professions at
a faster rate than before. That can be hard depending on your organization, how it's structured.(...) So I see a lot of I see AI causing a lot of economic displacement and unrest.(...) I do think I think this is one of the most interesting questions in AI. I do think that net net, it will end up being more of an advantage for people who make less money as opposed to people who make more money.(...) You know, we saw with the last Internet revolution that it mostly
benefited the wealthy. I don't think that'll be the case. I think, you know, clearly people who are wealthier will have access to better models, better tools, direct lines to engineers. But in general, I mean, we're seeing this with language, just the fact that it will allow everybody to communicate in pretty good English and reasonably well written English is much more of an advantage for people who are in the developing world
than relatively well off Americans. So I do think in general, it will increase income inequality. It will decrease income inequality, make the world more equal.(...) So watching Yeah that's the circular economics of the valley that article that he wrote I was fascinating I was interested in what made you drive that and what are your views on the valley and its future. commitment, work ethic, all the things that work together there, venture capital
funding, you know, all those things. It's incredible that it continues to stay there. I think it would be better for America if it spread out. I have no doubt about that. I love, you know, the work that, say, Steve Case is doing to try to make tech companies spring up everywhere. I have no doubt. I actually think it
would be better for the tech industry. It would be better for the tech industry if it was dispersed, right?(...) And there were senators and congresspeople who, you Yeah no you're spot on because everywhere I go like if you see Israel which I'm really fascinated by the kind of innovation that happens in Israel yeah I think the government involvement in Singapore to create innovation hub is just probably some of the best actions taken anywhere in the world right London
is of course trying every other city Austin within America happens to try and everywhere I go they seem to feel that I have that secret answer to what makes the valley tick and I actually don't and but it's just it just continues to go on and on and everywhere that you go even Israel they look up to the valley as this absolute building ground for innovative ideas and where things actually start to germinate and then grow and even India if you really see a lot of these you know companies that are
emerging from the US ultimately come to the US and the valley to prosper so the germ is Israel or or India but when they come to the valley that's really where it seems to have you know sort of yeah grow yeah and by the way before that Google from Russia you know and Facebook I mean you know at least Eduardo from Brazil I mean it's just it's just fascinating yeah yeah it's and it's just it's fascinating but anyways the one thing that I do want to talk about which I've been fascinated
for the last probably year and a half and I picked up that Atlantic issue where you spoke about the the why wouldn't say potential but if that was a Trump term what would it look like and I think that was a fascinating fascinating issue you're a political activist before we go into the upcoming elections what's in your mind the correlation between AI and democracy AI and democracy is, of course, you know, I should have mentioned this when you mentioned the risks, but this is one of
the great questions for the next year, which is can a democracy survive when you have no idea whether you're talking to a human or a bot? And pretty soon on Twitter, on Reddit,(...) wherever you are, maybe even on the phone, but that'll take a little bit longer. You won't know, you know, whether you're talking to somebody or whether you're talking to a bot and, you know, what will that do to
trust? You also won't know whether information was created by teams of humans or by teams of bots.(...) And the most frightening scenario is just we come to trust nothing. And there are parts of the world where you don't trust anything, right? Where you,(...) you know, somebody offers you a deal, you don't trust them, right? And there are parts of the world where somebody offers you a deal and shakes your hand and you completely trust
it even without a signed document. And what in the places in the world where you can trust people,(...) everything's a lot simpler, a lot easier, and works a lot better. And in the place of the world where you can't, everything's a lot harder.(...) And what I fear is the internet becoming a place of just total non-trust, where you don't know who you're talking to. You don't know whether you're being grifted at any moment. And the question will be – and you also
don't know if anything is true, right? So if,(...) you know, I think in this presidential election, we'll certainly have believable deepfakes. And we'll also have real things that are dismissed as deepfakes.(...) And we just, you know, you won't know. And so there was a paper that I read recently about persuasion. And what they did is they got a bunch of political debates where everybody can argue either side, right? Should you get rid of the electoral college? It's easy
to see the arguments. Yes, it's easy to see the arguments. No. (Silence) (Silence) Now, scary times, like you rightly said, there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of things that, you know, we need to fear. Let's go into something which is a little more rapid fire of sorts, and I wouldn't put you on the spot at all, but book recommendations. (Silence) Oh, that's fascinating. Favorite running shoe?(...) (Silence) Okay. Favorite guitarist?
(Silence)(...) Jimi Hendrix. Yeah. Favorite live concert that you have been to or would like to go to?(...) (Silence) By the way, have you been to the sphere in Vegas?(...) Oh my God, I happen to do that.(...) (Silence) Oh, that must be fun. Favorite person you'd like to have dinner with? Or the favorite person you've had dinner with? And next is that you would have liked to have dinner with?
so, you know, my professional mentor, who I've had dinner with many times, is David Remnick at The New Yorker, who has been just a...has taught me all kinds of wonderful things about journalism, about
how to work, about how to be efficient. I often try to think of when I'm in a complex situation.(...) There are actually two people at The New Yorker who...there are a whole ton of people at The New Yorker who I thought were great mentors, but David Remnick and Pam McCarthy were two people who just taught me everything about how to work. I have had the most extraordinary run of bosses through my life. Charlie Peters at the Washington Monthly, Link Kaplan at Legal Affairs. You know, I mentioned
Chris and Bob Konellwert. I've had just extraordinary bosses through my run. A person who I would like to have dinner with. I wish I could, as an adult,(...) either...I wish I could have dinner with my father when he was my age and understand more about his life. You know, obviously I knew him extremely well. He's passed now, you know, but I wish when I've had the experiences I've had and I've learned the things I've had, I wish I could talk to him about his childhood.
And about Oh, what an answer.(...) Favorite vacation location? A spot?(...) Oh, great.(...) Favorite sport to watch? (Silence) Playhouse, yeah. (Silence) Oh, that's great. Favorite wine? My favorite question. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. It's been fascinating.