Hey, the folks. It is Tuesday, July first, and the jury has reached verdicts in the Diddy trial. But we don't know what the verdicts are yet, and we might not know for several days. Why more jury drama, folks, Welcome to this episode, this second Diddy update episode of Amy and TJ for the day Robes. What was your reaction? I had to give you the updates in real time via text because you happen to be out at the time. But what were was your reaction to hearing what we know now?
Oh, my heart was pounding.
I was running around New York City in the rain and trying to get some errands done, but like hearing from you that there were verdicts in Bam, my heart stopped, and so I tried to start looking at my phone, reading the reporters who were in the room, trying to read the tea leaves, because we first just started getting anecdotal observations about how Diddy was reacting and how his defense team was reacting, and I was trying to figure out what that meant. It was confusing, exciting, and I
don't know. So much is on the line, and we've all been following this everyone who's been listening with us, but those of us who are covering it, it just it's overwhelming, all.
Right, So folks, we'll let you know where we are right now as of this recording, early evening here on July first, the jury has gone home. They've gone home for the day, but they sent a note to the judge at about four fifteen this afternoon, that note telling him that they had reached verdicts on four of the five counts against Sean Diddy Combs. The one count robes they're hung up on. We should not be surprised, and we are not legal experts, but I guess we kind of saw this coming.
Yes, they are stuck on the racketeering conspiracy charge. That, of course, is the one that was the most confusing and complex and the one that would send Diddy to prison for the rest of his life. So that is the one that they were asking questions about. We kind of figured that out. But what we hadn't realized is it sounds like perhaps they had already pretty quickly made decisions on count two, three, four, and five.
Hey, that's tough to's that is what is that? I mean, any legal expert will tell you something and what that means. But they started sending notes, and it's giving an indication that they were debating about the racketeering charge really really early in the process. So to think that counts two, three, four five they were unanimous on in a matter of it had to be an hour.
I know so. And look, I am no legal expert, but a lot of folks will believe if you get a verdict back quickly or decision is made quickly, oftentimes it is guilty. That is just typically what you see. It's not always the case. But to add to that, the defense team, who knows what they're telling Diddy, what they're telling their client. But from the folks who were in the room, they said his face looked despondent, and there were a lot of hugs, There was a lot
of pats on the backs. The mood seemed serious, I believe, is how they described it.
I think you saw as well. We read again, folks, We read all of the commentary from the reporters who are in the room, so they're feverishly typing their observations and then we take it in. Now we from Sky News, BBC, the Independent.
Of CNN, ABC.
NBC, we look at all of these things ropes. I saw a few initially talking about hugs and almost smiles and even laughter on Ditty's side. I saw some follow ups that said after the note came that there were hugs, very serious looks on their faces, and to your point, desponded. So some of the scenes they're describing were different. But I think what you just said was more consistent and what everybody was observing, like something's up, something serious. Why are they hugging?
Yes, And because they don't know, obviously, no one knows what the verdict is if it's not guilty or guilty, but most attorneys know in these types of situations. Just they're reading between the lines in terms of the notes that the jurors have been sending over the last day and a half and the fact that they are stuck on the most serious charge. But seemingly came pretty quickly to their decision on count two, which is sex trafficking by force, fraud or coersion that was about Cassie Ventur.
They had a unanimous decision on count three, that's transportation to engage in prostitution that also pertains to Cassie Ventura
and the sex workers that we've heard about. They're unanimous on the count four charge, which is also sex trafficking by force, fraud or corrosion, this is in reference to Jane, and then unanimous on their decision for count five, which is transportation to engage in prostitution that is involving Jane and the sex workers that also a part of that that testified as well.
So you know, look, it's settled right now. They have settled and they have made a decision about the fate of Sean Didtycomb's on four of five counts, the most serious one is left, sure, but the fact that he is potentially looking and again robes on two of those counts we're talking about sex trafficking. Those carry a minimum of fifteen years each, correct a minimum, yes, a minimum of fifteen years. He has the other two, the prostitution
counts have a maximum of ten years. But he is looking at some serious, serious prison time if in fact these are guilty. I mean, I was going back and forth before we started recording with you, like, how do you possibly look at this? How could you lean not guilty? How could you look at this and lean and possibly think well, they did it that quickly how could you lean not guilty.
See, I just feel like if there's stuck on the racketeering, which is the most serious of the crimes and involved some of these counts in that you just had to have a co conspirator involved as well. So it just seems to me that the count two through five are guilty. Okay, it just seems like that has to be what it is.
I don't know what happened, looking at your face right then, and you just for whatever reason, it just clicked. It clicked if you again, I don't think I said this point clear enough. At the top the jury note that they sent said that we've reached verdicts on four or five counts. We on one. We have people who are unpersuadable, who are unmovable on both sides. So that means there's somebody on that jury who is so sure that he's
guilty of racketeering that they refuse to move. Yeah, that person is probably voted.
That person has not voted not guilty on counts two through five.
That is a hunt, that's a done deal.
So that's why, Okay, that's why the despondent looks.
And I think that's why the hugging, because I think they know at the very least did he is going to prison, is going to stay in prison for quite some time with these verdicts.
Now I can understand the racketeering conspiracy.
Someone might think he was guilty of counts two through five, But did it really rise to the level of racketeering? Did he actually have an empire? Did he actually have an enterprise? Did he actually have a co conspirator? And so I can see why someone said could say who thought he was guilty on counts two through five still say, you know what, I don't.
Think he's guilty of racketeering.
Also, that's putting him away for the rest of his life, and that might feel a little bit more ominous.
But their note suggests somebody is sure, unpersuadable and unmovable on the racketeering charge of him being guilty. I'm glad we talked this out because I was trying to find a way, like, how is it? Is it any way at the Nope, there's no way.
I don't think there's any way that sure he.
Was guilty of racketeering.
There's no way say.
He's not guilty of something else.
Here's the deal. Here's a question.
He could be he could be not guilty on the sex trafficking charges, and he they could have unanimously decided that, And then they could have unanimously decided that he's guilty of the transportation to engage in prostitution. So he might they might have unanimously It might be split.
You make another good points.
So maybe he is only facing ten years each.
I mean, if there's a myriad of possibilities, they're not necessarily all guilty or all not guilty.
It could be a mix.
You know what I am Again, I'm not being curt with this or because of the seriousness of what we're talking about here, But if I were a betting man, I would take that scenario you just laid out. Yeah, meaning there's some difficulty with the sex trafficking. People have a difficulty understanding why, Like, wait a minute, she could have left any time she wanted to be kind of
a thing. And even if you're not okay with the sex trafficking, maybe it's easier to say, okay, he paid for these guys came and had sex.
When we heard the prosecution give their closing arguments and throughout the testimony, we kind of really felt like that was a slam dunk. While we were listening to the evidence as it was happening, we said, kind of feels like they totally proved that by the law that it seems yes, right, So that wouldn't be shocking. Now here's another scenario, babe. They could have believed Cassie.
Ventura and not believed Jane. There could be it could split on that as well, a myriad of guilty and not guilty.
But there are definitely there are definitely some guilties in there.
They got to be some gilis in there. So which ones are they? Yeah, it's wild. So after all of that scene, they had to figure out Okay, the jury sent a note they have a question about what to do next. So then the lawyers came back into the courtroom. This is the part that's been fascinating and this took hours today. They had to argue, fight over what's the right language to give back to the jury right.
And both the This was interesting.
Both the defense and the prosecution wanted the jury to go back and to continue to deliberate, and the defense wanted to use even stronger language like go back, And then the prosecution wanted to give an Allen charge, which rises to a whole other level, and.
So it's very controversial. Some people think it shouldn't be used at all. Alan charge is essentially a stronger and amended jury instruction, essentially telling them in more forceful terms, you have an obligation to go back there and get us a verdict, and almost encourages them to re examine their own opinion and not be afraid to change their minds. And some people say that's almost like some psychological influence you're having on.
The jury, like are you sure you're right? Are you sure that's this decision you want?
Essentially asking them to question the decision they've already made and why it's in the interests of the court and the system to get a verdict instead of doing what you believe me you are That's what the argument sometimes is. But they didn't go that.
Far, No, And the judge did make a point and to the juror saying, you know, if you strongly believe something, no one is asking you to go against what you believe is right and true. And that was certainly an important part of the.
Instructions to the jury.
But yeah, the judge could have just sent them back. He could have given them an all in charge. He could have allowed for a partial verdict. Some folks were thinking that maybe we might hear what the verdicts were on counts two through five, but the judge didn't ask the jury to do any of that.
I mean, I don't know what you we get those verdicts. They do not want a hung jury. Neither side wants a hung jury on account because that means we have to go reach trie over again, and at that point he's going to be I mean, at this point it seems like he's guilty on some count. Are you going to go through and do all of this over again? Nobody wants that, So yeah, to your point, both sides wanted them to go back in and keep talking the options.
You just laid out what they could do. But the judge eventually did decide what he wanted to do, and he brought the jury late in the day back into the courtroom. And we're going to tell you exactly what he told them to do. All right, we have verdicts in the Didy trial. We have verdicts on four of five counts. We don't know what the four verdicts are yet, because the jury sent the judge to the jury back in to continue deliberating. But Ropes, he had options for
what he could tell them to do. He could tell them to keep deliberating, give this new instructions, kind of a harsher instruction about what to do. Or he could allow a partial verdict. But he kind of split the baby, kind of made everybody happy and gave them some instructions.
Yeah, that's correct.
So after the prosecution weighed in the defense weight in, the judge decided to tell the jury this when he brought them back into the courtroom just a short while ago, he said this, I received your note that you have reached verdicts on count two through five, but not on count one. I ask at this time that you keep deliberating. And so that is what he told the jury. The jury went back out of the room and shortly thereafter they sent a note back to the judge saying, hey,
we're done for the day. And so it was determined that they will come back tomorrow morning at nine am to keep deliberating on count one and who.
Knows how long that will go.
Who knows how long the judge will ask them to keep deliberating. Until they come back with a either a unanimous decision, or once again, if they already have people who say, I will not budge, I will not move.
I don't know what the cutoff. At some point he has to use discretion, But at some point you have to if they say absolutely not and keep saying absolutely not, and I've seen a judge keep throwing it back and back and back at jurors, and eventually they just have to convince him that this isn't going to happen. I don't know if the judge has in his mind a deadline,
a timeline on it. They might come back tomorrow and have more legal questions, be asking for more things, and maybe negotiations start anew to a certain degree, I do not know. But if I were a betting man, once again, I always bet tomorrow's in that Tomorrow, on Wednesday, we would get a verdict or at least a decision and hear what's going.
On here, you know.
And there's been so much discussion about what the mood has been like outside the courthouse. Inside the courtroom, it's been described as tense and certainly building. I can't even imagine tomorrow morning what that scene is going to be like as folks are expecting. Hey, the verdict is almost certainly coming down tomorrow and Diddy, you know, his mother was in court with him today, one of his daughters,
his children have all been there throughout this trial. And just to now have to sit and wait and know that the verdicts are in recounts two through five and you're waiting to hear about what they think on that most serious charge.
That's tough. Your fate has been sided on four or five counts and you have to sit and still wait to hear that. You're not waiting on a decision to be made, you're waiting for them to tell you your decision. That just hits a little different. But wow, we shouldn't be surprised more drama with this jury from the start day one, day two.
Yeah, they've kept it interesting.
It hasn't ever actually gotten to the point where I was born. It seems like every time I had a moment to do something else, another note came in and another question or another note came back from the jurors. But I thought it was interesting the prosecutors when they first learned of this split, that they haven't decided or they can't come to an agreement on count one.
They initially wanted.
The judge to tell the jurors this is one of their suggestions that the case could be retried if they don't reach a verdict. I wonder what that was about. Would they have preferred a hung jury on the racketeering charts so that they could retriumph rather than try and get them to come to a unanimous decision, fearful that perhaps that unanimous decision would ultimately be not guilty.
Give him an offer, give him an offram. Oh, that would have I should say, given him an off ram, Like this is heavy, this is very difficult and emotional, and we've all had some kind of emotional reaction to it. But they're the ones in charge of this man's fate, and so yeah, to give them somewhat of an off ram. I could see why they might have wanted to put it in there and take the pressure off of them to make a decision because of the decision maybe the
prosecutor thinks they do not want to make. Is that one to have to put him in prison for the rest of his life?
Wow? Yes, because just the pressure on the jury members who don't want to change their mind. But pure pressure is certainly powerful, and isn't that part of how a jury works.
I want to go back and watch the people versus OJ Simpson for somewhere you remember all that.
It's been a while, but it goes so.
Much insight into that particular jury as well. It's just I can't imagine what's going on. We will hear the stories later.
But and well, I was gonna say there is some interest because okay, we think there's going to be in terms of what may happen if the jury somehow doesn't reach a verdict tomorrow and say they continue to deliberate. They actually had to discuss the judges and the attorneys whether or not court could even convene on Thursday, July third, because typically the court is closed because of the fourth
of July holiday. So the judge did say that they could keep the court open if it's necessary for the jurors to continue to deliberate on Thursday, July third, But it doesn't seem like that's in anyone's interest. And they're close, You're like, that's never happened.
I mean, some of these guys are telling the family what charcoal bye? I mean they're they're cooking out, they're they're getting ready for the fourth of July. This is I can't imagine.
Yes, well I think so the defense lawyer Marca and uh, okay, you think I know. Agnet Pillow actually said he didn't want the judge to ask dureors what they want to do until the end of the day tomorrow because he doesn't want them to feel rushed into a decision.
You can understand that.
And they're saying, hey, we'll wait till Monday if we have to just let them take their time. They didn't want anyone to feel pressured or rushed to make a decision.
To just get out of there. By end of the day tomorrow.
We'll only got one thing to talk about.
Now.
It's a big thing to talk about, racketeering, but they are down to only one decision to make. Folks, we appreciate you. I'll continuing to listen to us. It has been a ride, but we are it's coming around the corner in the next couple of days or might go into next week, but either way, we appreciate you being along with us. But for now, I'm TJ. Holmes along with Combard to Amy Robach we'll talk to us soon.
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