Hello everyone, It's Wednesday, May twenty eighth. Welcome to Amy and TJ. I'm Amy Roebuck and I'm TJ Holmes. Why are you puzzled when I said welcome to Amy and TJ? Because I forgot what we're doing. We do so many podcasts.
It feels this one's about relationship, that one's about crying, This one's about news, that one's about something else. So I forgot where we were.
Yes, well, this is the Sean Diddycombs recap that we've been doing every day after testimony, so we can give you a one stop shop where you don't have to go and try to find who said what when. It's very confusing when you go through all the different news outlets to see what happened to trials. So we have done all of that for you, and we're going to go over what happened in court yesterday. And it was
pretty remarkable what happened on Tuesday. This is the start of the third full week of testimony the prosecution's case against Calms. There was only one witness, but my goodness, she packed a punch.
This was Capricorn Clark. She makes an impression. If you have no idea who she is just by her name. Her name is Capricorn Clark. She's a former assistant Taditty and global brand director for him. She also worked as Cassie's creative director, and she worked several people rogues we've heard from so far. I think she might be the one that's worked the longest for him of the people, at least that we've heard. From two thousand and four to twenty twelve, was it.
But then once again she came back again all the way up to twenty eighteen, and just last year in April of twenty twenty four. In the spring of twenty twenty four, she tried to work for him again.
So they have a long standing relationship. And look, she this is a lady. A lot of people gotten up and testified about what they saw and here and there, and some of his assistants. She was in that inner circle and she handled even called herself his protector. So she was right there, very trusted, and she saw a little bit of everything, according to her testimony, and she gave some details. There were even it's hard to compare days of testimony and details that are more chilling than others.
But some of the stuff she talked about will leave you shook.
Yeah.
I mean she was with Ditty, like we mentioned, on and off for twenty years, and not only did she see things or hear things, she says she experienced things directly, which is why a lot of people have questioned why she would stay so long, why she would stand by him for so long, why she wanted to return to work again and again. If you believe what her testimony is, it's hard to imagine that you would choose to continually put yourself back in that kind of environment.
Well, she said it. It's complicated. My relationship with him is complicated, she said. Even to this day, she misses the job and she would still go back again. As early as last year, she was still in some conversations
about a potential role she might have with Ditty. But she was described on the stand yesterday at times that there are several reporters in the room from several outlets who are giving their accounts, but they were all rose pretty universal and saying she cried uncontrollably few times.
Understand.
I think the verb was she was sobbing uncontrollably, uncontrollably, which gives you an image of what was happening up on the stand. But yes, she said throughout it all, she wanted Ditty's approval. And that's what we've heard time and time again. He created something with some of these women and some of these assistants and some of these folks who worked with him, who begged and craved for his approval. And she said when she kept going back, she quote wanted her life back.
She wants approval from a guy who, she also said on the stand, threatened to kill her on more than one occasion, who fired her on more than one occasion. She heard him threaten to kill other people as well.
She witnessed what she said was horrific violence. But at the same time, we are still talking about someone that she had whatever level of respect for or adoration for, or maybe just the role she was in and the power she had by having access who knows what, But she said he really she was complicated and still to this day she misses the job.
Yeah, that's and that is truly complicated. I don't I can't think of a better word to describe it than that. And what her testimony, what we heard from her yesterday was key and central to the prosecution's case specifically to a kidnapping charge, because she claims she was kidnapped by Sean Diddy Combs in the early morning hours to go over to kid Cuddy's house.
That was, of course, the rapper who.
He had a beef with because he was seeing his on again, off again girlfriend Cassie Ventura, and when he found out, he, according to Capricorn, got her in the early morning hours and forced her. He had a gun in his hand. He showed up disheveled. She said he had a rip in the crotch of his pants and said we're going to kill Cutty.
This was important. This was a critical part of the prosecution's case because if they prove or convince the jury at least that did he was involved and his associates were involved in other crimes as a part of his enterprise. They're trying to prove a racketeering charge. They're trying to essentially show what they showed when they were convicting mobsters back in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. This rico charge, if you will, They're trying to prove he has a
criminal enterprise. So this is why it is important. Another crime, kidnapping is a pretty serious crime and Capricorn Clark Clark claim she was taken against her will. This story is central, I guess for the first couple to the first couple of weeks of this trial rose because Kid Cutty, A lot of people didn't even know his name potentially and weren't familiar with his music. But he has been central to this case because he is the guy who was
dating Cassie. Did he found out about it? And it's set off this whole chain of events.
Yeah, so yesterday we heard Capricorn Clark testify that Ditty and his security guard went into Cutty's house and again she's there against her will, she claims, And that's when she says she called Cassie on a burner phone to tell her that Ditty was in front of Cutty's house. She goes through this whole explanation about Cutty coming to the house, pulling up alongside Ditty's vehicle, and then taking off, and she describes a chase ensued between the two.
She said it felt like it was forever, but it might have been a minute before Cutty essentially got away. But that scene that night, we've heard it. We heard Cassie talk about We heard Cuddy talk about it, but to see it or hear it, at least from this witness's perspective. A witness who claimed to be along for the ride against her will, that is kidnapping. He has a loaded gun telling hers she doesn't have a choice but to come with him, so that is why she
ends up being there. But you go back to say she called Cassie from a burner phone. The fact that you were in any situation in life that you need a burner phone so that your boyfriend or your boss can't find out about what you're doing, that was just the idea. She said she was the one that took her to Best Buy to get a burner phone when things got rough with her and Diddy.
I mean, if you have to do that, you have to question what you're doing and who you're spending your time with, because that is deeply concerning and speaks of volumes. She also testified that after all of this, Diddy told Cassie and Capricorn that they had to get kid Cutty to not go to police, otherwise if they didn't do that, she claims that Diddy said he'll kill them all her words.
Her testimony under oath saying that happened. She made a comment earlier as well to in along those same lines that Cassie's going to get us all killed. Right in dating kid Cutty. She just knew how explosive potentially that situation was, that you're having to sneak around or get a burner front, all these things. But the idea that she was told more on one occasion, my Diddy that
he's gonna kill folks, including her. I'm gonna kill all of y'all if you don't just convince him to not go to police, which they apparently they did convince him.
I thought it was so remarkable listening or hearing about Capricorn's testimony about Cassie. It was it was all over the place. On one hand, she talked about her and she worked directly for her, saying she went from being more of a sweet model to a feisty girlfriend. Feisty yes, and then yes, what you just said. She said Cassie was gonna get us all killed. But that's crazy, like
putting the blame on Cassie. Cassie is gonna get you all killed, when the finger at times she did should be pointed directly if this is all true at Diddy for wanting to kill them all versus the response ability on Cassie to not get them all killed.
Well, that's the I guess that speaks once again to the psyche of everybody in that world, knowing that this guy is the one we all depend on. This is the one we all have to serve. So let's figure out what we have to do, what we have to endure, whether that's pain, whether that's embarrassment, whatever we have to do to survive in his world and to keep this
guy happy. That's it, Bill. Look, the prosecution, if nothing else, is building an idea of a world that we had no idea about and has been consistent.
And makes no sense in the real world.
You know, to not blame the person who's actually committing these atrocities or who you say is, but versus or rather than the people who are making him upset, Which that's kind of an insane thing to think about for me.
And she also said that Cassie wanted her out of Diddy's inner circle, so you know, she definitely had a tumultuous relationship with Cassie, and certainly that was explained on the stand at least by ca Capricorn, and it's just wild to hear all of what she said happened, specifically on the kid Cutty situation. The cross examination was very interesting because Ditty's lawyers went after Capricorn because, yes, she's saying she was kidnapped. She's saying she went against her will.
She's saying he brandished a gun and she felt like her life was under threat. But they pointed out that she previously said she went with Ditty to kid Cutty's house in order to keep him from doing something stupid. She denied that, says she doesn't remember saying that, And that's the question. Did she go willingly to protect him, to do her job or what she thought was her job, or was she taken against her will.
Look, legal experts out there say this is a very important part of the prosecution's case. They need to prove that a crime had taken place here. The kidnapping is a very very important thing. Not just about sentiments anymore. It's not just about oh my, this guy's crazy, he had gun, he did some silly stuff, he was mad, he was even hitting a woman. No, no, no, that the kidnapping, they say, is very important in building a
case about a criminal enterprise. So there was another potential incident in which she was kidnapped, though if they could possibly prove because Capricorn Clark explained that there was another incident a different year in which she was in charge
of jewelry for Diddy. That bag went missing and she was taken robes to an abandoned floor of a building, a dilapidated building, and was subjected to a light detector test all day, several days by some big dude who told her she needed to act right or you're gonna find yourself in the East River. Yeah, he gave her
that threat when she was so nervous. They couldn't get a good reading, they said on the light detector, and he told her you need to calm down because if I can't get a good reading, they're gonna throw you in the river. So that's a threat one and potential kidnapping as well. So that is now the details are solations in that. But for legal reason, this is very important for them building.
Theyay, you just put yourself or imagine it does sound like a scene out of a movie.
It doesn't sound like real life.
This was all happening here around the Manhattan area, and apparently she described this guy, you said, a big dude. She said he was five times the size of her, is what she said on the stand, and he was intimidating. And yes, she said she felt like her life was under threat because she couldn't relax enough or calm down enough for the light detector to have a good reading
when that bag of diamonds went missing. She also describes another incident back in two thousand and six where she apparently walked up to Ditty's personal chef and made an offhanded comment because they didn't have turkey bacon, and she said, I hate living here or something under her breath. The chef hears it and goes and tells Ditty in the next room what she just said. And then what Diddy
did next. She claims he came running at her, running at her from the room and pushed her violently because and then said, if you don't want to live here, get the f out of here now, And so she says she did leave. So you hear all of this and these stories, what she witnessed, what she experienced, she says, and she's still begging, years and years later to come back to work. For him, pleading for his job, for her job, begging him for forgiveness.
That was over the Cuddy stuff.
Right, Yeah, she did.
Yeah, that was emails, right, she says she sent twenty fourteen and fifteen. This is one part where they said she did cry pretty hard on the stand having to read these emails and what she was begging for forgiveness for having not told him that Cassie was dating Cutty. That was ten years ago and she's on the stand there.
Still crying about him said about it.
And yes, but this is after she's been pushed, after she's been threatened, after she's been afraid for her life. She's begging for forgiveness. That's wild to me to hear hear her talk about this. And then there was an incident in Central Park.
Now that one is again. She was taking the Central Park. It was late at night, just Ditty and a security guard. I this one jumped out of me because I think about Central Park. We spent so much time in Central Park. We think about how many times we've run or enjoyed a There are nothing but happy thoughts. Quite frankly, anytime I think about Central.
Park, setting of beautiful movies and you're strolling hand in Hanner, you're taking a beautiful run, or you're taking in you know, the beautiful scenery and the people. Yeah, you're not thinking about violent crimes. I mean, I know they can happen, but certainly it's not what you think of.
So this is why this one got me and got maybe a lot of New Yorkers to think. You might have been, you know, just hanging out in the park on a pleasant evening and Diddy was threatening to kill a woman under the cover of darkness somewhere there with a security guard. She said, yeah, took her to the park. And this was because she had a previous relationship or working relationship with Shube Knight, who was a business rival, a rap rival, rap industry rival with Diddy. She didn't
disclose that previously. He found out about it, got upset and took her and threatened to.
Kill her.
In the park.
And when he fired her, he told her he'd make her kill herself.
He's gonna make things that bad for it. And she's she believes she got blacklist, that she tried unsuccessfully for a while to find work in the industry. But all this stuff we're saying about her to this day, if he if he gets if he's found not innocent, if he called her and asked her to come back and work, I absolutely think.
I mean, if he sound not guilty, you mean, if he walks, if he walks and gets back.
What I'm saying, I'm making an extreme point, My point being, after all we're hearing, I don't think there's a question that this woman still feels some sense of loyalty to him and would still return to his circle if she were allowed to do so.
Would he allow that? I mean, she's being compelled to testify. Obviously, she's not doing this because she chose to. Most of the folks on the stand are there because they're compelled to, speaking to their fear of retribution or any sort of retaliation. And I can't even imagine what these folks are thinking about, after hearing their testimony and staring at him right there in the courtroom as they're saying all of these mind blowing things, what it would be like for them if
he is not convicted. I haven't even gone there, but I'm just now thinking about what that must feel like, the fear and the trepidation that might speak to some of the sobbing and the crying.
She's probably so.
Conflicted and so torn about what to do, what to say, and what not to do.
One thing she did do.
Despite all the things, perhaps negative, that she said about Cassie Ventura, she absolutely corroborated Cassie's testimony about being beaten by did He Combs And so many who have gone up on the stand have done the same. They have cord Cassie's testimony about the violence she endured from did He tough to hear. Yeah, she says she saw personally did He kick Cassie repeatedly while she was in fetal position, silently crying after he found out about kid Cutti. She witnessed it first hand.
That's tough to hear.
That one was tough to hear. Look, so much of this testimony has been just brutal and devastating, and to imagine somebody endured that repeatedly for years. But this was one I guess I for some reason got very much a visual of this to imagine. Yeah, I mean, Cassie's not a big girl, but she's cruel just to be in that position, essentially giving up, essentially saying please stop,
I'm not fighting you. I have nothing. It's not just smacking somebody with a hand, to kick somebody repeatedly, tough to here and this is these are all allegations, but for some reason, that one is one of all we've heard that I visualized and had such a reaction to that description of her and then the crying silently even that detail.
Yes, I mean it's and it was so bad that Cassie said, sorry, excuse me that Capricorn Clark said she called Cassie's mom and said, he as in Ditty is beating the shit out of your daughter, And she said, this is also so devastating that Cassie's mom told her I can't call the police, but you can please help her. That I don't care who you are. You're a mom, you're a parent. The idea that you're getting a phone call saying your daughter's being beaten severely and you say I can't call.
Police, that's a tough one. Can you please help her?
That's a tough one.
That is just devastating to me. And to think about the picture they're painting of Ditty. You know, when you talk about kicking someone when they're not fighting back, when they're clearly in a position of protection that you just keep going after them. That just I can't even get my head around at That reminds me of people who hurt animals. When you start hurting the helpless, that's when it goes to a whole other level of cruelty.
Oh this is to say, right, you should kick a man when he's down. I just just that visual and that description that she gave and this, I don't know what look we talked about. There's plenty here. There's so many things in here for us to examine, from the music industry, from the young people who are in it, to fame, to wealth, to power, to sex, to all
may things. Race. There's so much to examine in here, But this is one and I hope something we continue to learn about domestic violence and victims of domestic violence, being a friend and a family member of folks who might be going through this stuff. Because these are two women who I believe loved this girl, that really cared for Cassie. One is looking at her being kicked repeatedly
and won't call police. Another she calls the girl's mother, who no one I would argue on the planet loves Cassie more than her mom and a mom didn't do anything. What in God's name are we doing? And I'm not I do not envy. I'm not criticizing the women for the position that they were in or they were put in, but what are we doing when that is happening?
Yeah?
I think this could be hopefully a wake up call for a deeper understanding of what actually goes on those dynamics, the power of them, and what compels people to freeze or fight. You know, it's it's or you know, it's like they say, when you're in certain situations that are stressful, you have the flight or fight, but there's a freeze as well, and you see.
That happening a lot.
When when Capricorn was being cross examined, there was one and it was I think it was the fun question that Diddy's attorneys asked Capricorn, and this was fairly devastating. We talked about how much she bolstered Cassie's testimony and corroborated her testimony. This last question did the opposite. It certainly, if anything, it could have planted a seat of doubt in terms of Cassie's willingness or unwillingness to be a part of everything.
Yeah, and I think what she was up there for three days Cassie and her testimony, and look, they cross examined her and their questions about where was she on that fence right, how much of it was she there as a victim, how much of it was she an accomplice? How much was she there willingly doing this stuff? And I think that they were trying to make a point here, and I think they made a point to do this
question last. But Cassie was asked, excuse me. Capricorn was asked about a conversation she'd had with Cassie and she had told according to Capricorn, was trying to plead with Cassie, get out of this relationship with Diddy. Stop dating him, is the advice she was trying to give. And this robes is what she said. Cassie's response to.
That was jay Z is taken. Who would I date? That's hard to hear.
And that's the end of the after all whole days she's testified. That is the last thing that the jury heard. And I when I saw it, I was rattled by it. And you start to consider or rethink, we give a second thought to other things. You thought maybe you already put to bed about this case, like, oh, I thought one thing, but wait a minute, Wow.
Did she stay because and she endured whatever she did willingly because she liked the fame, she liked the power, she liked the money, she liked the access, she liked that life, and so she put up with obvious abuse that we've heard testified by so many people. I don't think that is in question whatsoever. But was she complicit because she liked the end result, even if the means by which she had to get those results were horrific
and heinous. She chose to be in that world and to be in that position because she liked the way she was living.
That is what the jury now is considering. And they now only need one juror to buy into that enough and the next thing, you know, this is not the guilty verdict that the prosecution is after. And again this been said in jest. Was she just making a little joke, But it didn't seem to come off that way, and it certainly is not why they asked the question at the end of her testimony. That testimony is going to continue.
She's done. But she was the only one on the stand yesterday actually went a little past there usual three o'clock break time in the afternoon. But today four more witnesses are expected, and I guess what is it. Two of them would have might have some more personal stories about.
Day, right, So one we'll hear from a Los Angeles Police Department officer and a Los Angeles Fire Department areson investigator. But the ones that I think we were just referencing that will be perhaps the most interesting will be Ditty's stylist, Deontay Nash. We're going to hear from the stylist, and then this might be a big one. The government did say it wanted to call another alleged victim of Ditty's. This one will be anonymous. They're giving her the moniker
Mia as she takes the stand. Miya is a pseudonym. We all we know is that she's one of Combe's former employees and that she wants and wishes to remain anonymous. We were told some of these women would be coming forward, but they would not be revealing their identities. So it will be very interesting to hear what Mia has to say on the stand today.
And we will continue to update you here, folks. For now, I'm TJ. Holmes along with Amy Robot giving you your daily Diddy Trial update. Thanks for tuning in, We will check in with you again soon