Hi guys, It's Jenny Garth and we are back for part two of my conversation with Samantha Boss. Who is the boss when it comes to divorce coaching. I love this whole business model that you've It feels like you've created this space, this white space that everybody in this situation needs. And also it feels like you are on you help the person feel like we're a team. I'm your biggest fan, I'm your cheerleader, and I'm also your quarterback. Let's do this. Here's what we're going to do.
And everybody's case is different. And I think that's why I get so frustrated with certain lawyers is they want to use the same template on everybody. And nowadays, we have kids with severe medical issues. We got military, we got shift workers, we got people that want to homeschool, we got you know, holistic and not wanting to do doctors a point. We got all kinds of people out there. Why are our parenting plans not custom to our family? Why are we using a template from the state of Indiana,
you know, the state of California. We're going to use the same template that the last six families got dished out. But all six families have different dynamics. That is the part that really blows my mind. And I hope someday, someday, soon I can get in front of judges and lawyers and say these have to be custom these cannot be just boilerplate stamp it. Oh, yep, use the guidelines from the state. No, it can't, because kids are the ones that fall through the cracks when that happens.
Yep, because this.
Is really all about the kids. I mean, this isn't about I know I've been stating, you know, me having to work with my ex, me having to work with When I have to work with my ex, my kids get a different version of me that they don't want. My kids want the peaceful mom, the happy mom, the one that's not triggered, the one that doesn't feel threatened, the one that doesn't feel bothered. That's what my kids want.
But if I have to continue to worry work with him and he does his high conflict bullshit on me, I'm going to always comply because I don't know boundaries yet, and then my kids are getting a bad version of me. So the kids are the ones that pay the price if your parenting plan is not good.
They absolutely do. I think it's really cool that your kids know the ins and outs of what you're talking about and they have also their own experience of it. Unfortunately, but it sounds like they, you know, it would be very cool if they were on their way to helping other young people.
I know they will. They're going to deny it right now, but when they come and do trainings with me, as soon as they get off, they're like, Okay, I was like, how's that feel. They're like, first off, that was exhausting, but they're like, that feels so good to share because I know my story even though they don't paint me as a rainbow unicorn mom. You know, they're like, that story is going to help other moms not make the mistake you made. And I'm like, hell yeah, because I
was a dysregulated mom those first eight years. I'll be honest. I was a screamer. I was a yeller. I was a goal play with your brother, you know, like because I had to focus on pause yeah, yeah, you know, and I wasn't attentive to them. I was so distracted with bullshit that I was a shit mom and I was just angry all the time or I'd go on a cleaning rampage, and they were just like walking on eggshells in my house. Now all of us have had a shit ton of therapy together and separately, so we're
all better. And I offered for them. I'm like, hey, is it okay if I share your stories? Absolutely? I mean, because they're healed through their therapy. Of like, yeah, that's our past. But if our past can help other people share it, let's do it. They love doing trainings. They love it.
I would too. It's just helping somebody on second when
they need it so badly. Okay. So I think that one of the things that I realized in my situation through my divorce that became a really big problem was that me and my ex we talked way too much over text messages, which is not good in terms of, you know, you can't tell someone's tone or if what you're saying is being heard and effective in the right way you and you can read so much into text messaging, and we just didn't want to talk to each other,
so we fell into firing off texts whether they were good or bad, and you know, and being short with each other and then putting the phone down and walking away, which was so infuriating when you know, you're like, I really need to work this out with you right now.
Right right, Well, a couple of things. Number one, good parenting plan. You won't have to talk as much, you know, if you cover all the detail and you won't have to be communicating as much. Number two, I mean, I don't know how old you are, but I was before the whole apps were out, you know, texting was like T nine. Ing had just came out when I was getting a divorce. That's how old I am. So like people were like, why didn't you use an app? I'm like,
they weren't invented yet. Okay, people were actually still calling people on the phone and having to talk. So I think, first and foremost an app to you know, so you have your really good parenting plan to limit plan out as much as you can in there. But then if something does fall through a sickness, a transportation issue something like that, or hey I need to switch a holiday, or hey I have to work or whatever, that's when
we got to go through the app. And or I recommend my clients to always develop an email that's just for divorce and co parenting and school stuff, something that's not your work email, that's not your personal email that's designed for I know, I'm only checking this when I'm ready to think about divorce and co parenting, and so you don't get a hold of me right now on my work computer and ding get to blow up my day,
Ding interrupt my mood. You know, it's an email that's completely separate that maybe you only have on your iPad. That's a good idea, or check somewhere else. But even still, we talk a lot about I run a private membership for moms only call the Next Chapter, and I do it with my bestie Lea Marie, and I always say she's the pretty calm one and I'm the high maintenance, like off the wall, in your face, you know, person
in our group. But we run a membership group where we give trainings on specific stuff like this, where we break down and say, okay, if you're a thumb warrior, we got to train you through like why are you so emotionally dysregulated? Why do you feel the urge to defend yourself against someone that's never going to agree with you?
You know?
And we break that down as to why, why why, and we teach them gray Rock and we teach him how to use chat GBT, but the apps are where it's at, you know. That way, everything that does get said could possibly be read by a third party professional and then evaluate who is the problem. But yeah, the whole urge to go back. A lot of that is just a self worth issue. You feel like you have to defend against someone that's never going to change their judgment on you whatsoever.
Or you're not right with them and you want to be heard, but you're not going to be heard that way.
Yeah. Never. They're never going to receive what you're delivering, not the way you meant to deliver it. They will always receive it differently. Like I tell the story all the time of my ex husband. I sent him, you know, a message on email back in the day and I said, hey, Walker, our oldest lost his tooth and I sent a picture and he said, you know, why are you sending me this? I knew his tooth was loose, and I said, I know, I was just sharing with you. He goes, the tooth
has been loose for a week. How did you not know that? Oh, you're right, Like, because I didn't tell him the tooth was loose. A couple of weeks ago when I didn't. It's just something so that I thought would be joyful, I thought triggering me. I thought it would be just the thing to like get us on this, like, oh, thanks for letting me see you the picture. It was as soon as I told him, I got braided of how you know, I didn't take care of the tooth.
That's probably why it was lost, because I don't brush his teeth. It was just everything I ever did got turned twist and hooked upside down to how I was the bad person and I was a slow learner. Eight years. I did that shit until my kids looked me dead in the face of the kitchen table one day and they said, would you just stop? He hates you. Would you just stop? You're embarrassing yourself. And that's when I went to therapy and I was like, this is what
my kid just said. She's like, oh gosh, oh gosh, we have some work to do. We have Yeah, if your kids told you this after this many years, it's been bad for a while and you've had blinders.
On m Yeah, because they don't want to tell mom she's not doing well. Mm hmm.
And I was not doing well.
And they don't want to see mom doing not doing well.
No, and they were just sick of me getting my feelings hurt. But it was like I was stepping into the pile of shit every time on my own, you know, I got out of the car, I walked up to him at sporting events, I was engaging with him like because I thought, I want everybody see that I'm not the problem. I want my kids to see I'm not the problem. Like, look at me being nice. I look like fucking Mary Poppins. Everywhere I went like joy, Joy, Joy,
and then he's just blah blah blah. And it was just it was humiliating what I put myself through because I didn't know what boundaries. I didn't know I could say no. I didn't know I could stay in the car. I didn't know. I didn't have to talk to him like I felt obligated too, because I had a court system saying be the better parent, be flexible, be a good girl. Let the judge like you don't be a problem.
So I didn't know what that meant to me. It met kisses ass and it wasn't hey teach boundaries because what ended up happening by me not having boundaries is both my children became people pleasers, and then they lost themselves for a while, and then I found boundaries, and then man, they jumped on the bandwagon right after me. And now they're both bad asses and very independent and do whatever the hell they want, whoever they want, when
they want. But that took a lot of work for us all to get there.
Oh my god, I feel like I'm listening to my life played back for me in so many of these situations, so I can really see how being I mean, at first, I was like a membership. I don't want to be a member of the divorce People's Club, Like that doesn't sound fun. But now hearing you explain it, you call it the next chapter.
We call it the next chapter. It's a monthly membership. We give a new training every Monday. There's one hundred hours worth of trainings already in there, and then we run two q and as a month, so you can post a question, jump on, or just watch the recording.
So it's all women right now that are all dealing with high conflict divorces or high conflict co parting journey, so that they're in that middle phase, right they were just married, and we are that middle ground of like, let me build you back up, sister, let me give you all the tools. We have stuff in there about finances, about fitness, about money, about parenting as a single parent, discipline as a single parent, how to do it when your kids don't want to go all kinds of stuff,
of like stuff they're too ashamed to ask people. You know, you're too embarrassed, or you're just like, I don't anybody know how toxic this shit is. Hang out with strangers, don't. They don't know, they don't know. And we are building such a great safe community for people to be vulnerable and open up. We gave a training yesterday about boundaries and I just spoke some truth about I sucked at boundaries, and I couldn't believe how many women were like, I'm ashamed,
but I do this too, I do this too. I'm too scared. I'm too And it's just like, I think that was a game changer for every woman on there to hear that here's this woman on you know, their their social media all the time that they look up to that I didn't have it all together at all for eight years. So I just want I don't want women to lose eight years. I want them to lose eight weeks and they figured it all out and they're good,
not eight years like I did. I lost eight years with my kids because I was just attracted with bullshit. That sucks, it does.
I'm so sorry for you. I'm so sorry for me. I haven't calculated the amount of years that I lost, but it's probably about eight ears, honest to God, of me being in my own torture device.
Because nobody was talking about it back then. You know, nobody was talking and there wasn't TikTok and all these social media, and it was embarrassing.
I didn't want to talk about it because I felt like I was a failure. I had done this. It was my fault somehow.
Yeah, there's just.
So many emotions that take over your mind and situations like.
That exactly, and so I think that's why I love doing it. You know, like some people may be embarrassed, They're like, I can't believe you just told that story. I used to smoke and drink in my garage once my kids went to bed.
Okay, I love you so much.
That's how I put it.
Was in your garage were you sitting in a lawn chair at all.
No, I was sitting on the steps to the door, and I hid the cigarettes and the tennis shoes right next to the door. Like I didn't make it hard. I didn't make it hard. But I quit smoking when my son caught me at a golf outing one time. I took a drag off someone's cigarette and he was like, that's disgusting. And I was like, okay, girl, it's about time. Do you get your shit together? And that was right when my awakening started to happen, of like, do you
even love yourself? You know, like you're so worried about this man being nice to you that hates your gutsy? You love yourself? Right now? Are you proud of yourself? And it was it was a deep dive and you own it and that's just.
What it takes. That's what it takes. I had a I thought I was going to go to this therapist and we were going to save our marriage. But I didn't know we were going to this therapist and he had planned to end our marriage at that session. And I remember one thing from that therapy session, and it was the therapist looking meat straight in my eyes. And saying, Jenny, why do you want to love a man who doesn't love you? Ouch? Okay, I gotta go now, like it just like hit so hard.
Well, that goes with divorce and coparenting. So my kids were basically telling me, and this is what my therapist later said, why are you treating him with kind words when he disrespects you? What are your kids going to do when they're future boyfriend or employer or peer treats them like shit? Are you? You're gonna want your kids to fuck you, you know, and stand up for themselves. But what are they mirroring right now? They're watching you still go back to a man that keeps treating in
front of them. He was not shy. He would do this in front of them and talk about me behind my back to them, and then they're watching you still be Mary Poppins all the time, like no way, You're gonna have to show them what boundaries and getting rid of people.
And knowing you're worth like yes, finding out like I actually my time, my words, this is all I'm worth something more than yes.
Yeah, yeah, I just got that tattoo worth on my arm because I absolutely did. Because that word I think is What saved me is I'm worthy of being special like this. I'm not defined by him saying you're a piece of shit, Mom, You're this, You're that. I have worth And that's why I'm good at my job is because I can. I do have value. I am an expert in.
I recognize that in yourself. Yeah, and it's amazing.
I have two more kids with my husband who are only six and five because I'm crazy and had kids at forty Oh yeah, yeah, whoe is right? And the way I parent these two hindsight, Like. I have emotional stories like out the wazoo of looking back on how much I was not emotionally regulated for the first two and how I am now. And even when my bigs come home, they're like, these two have it fucking easy, man, Like,
they don't see you crazy. They don't see you bouncing off the walls, yell and scream and crying, you know, throwing a fit, raging, you know whatever. And I'm not. I'm at peace now because I know my self worth and back then I didn't. And again, thank god we had therapy and I've worked through things with the big kids. But they recognize it and they're proud of me. You know that I put the work in so that their
brothers have different lives than what they have had. But yeah, there was a lot of things that happened for my kids. And I know there's women out there and dads who are emotionally disregulated, and you got to figure it out.
You have value, you have worth, and you should love yourself and you got to work on all that shit before you can ever be able to deliver it to your kids, ever be able to find somebody new and again, my business partner, Leah, she jumped from one marriage to the next because she didn't have worth, you know, and then then she worked on it and then she found the man of her dreams.
It takes work, yes, and nobody wants to do that work, spending time with yourself, listening to yourself, like loving yourself up when.
It's not easy, exactly exactly.
So, so I have goosebumps for you because I'm so happy that you've found your worth and you have, you know, this feeling of assuredness behind you now, like that you just unstoppable. But that's what happens to us women, you know, we sometimes it might take some other some people longer than others to learn these important things, but we all eventually learned them.
Absolutely. I mean, I'm glad I learned them. I'm sorry it took eight years, but I have eight years worth of great moments to be able to teach other women about.
That's right. What about co hosting birthday parties for your kids when you're going through a high conflict divorce. Should you avoid that? Should you be hosting them together separately? What has what do you think?
I'm a rip the band aid off. We're doing everything separate from here on out. And here's why. And this is where people and divorce have blinders on, because they're doing what they think the children want and what they think that will appear as in unity. Kids act different with each parent. I don't care even if you're married your kids. When one of you is home and the other one comes home, your kids flip a little bit
and act a little bit different. Nothing could be more true in a divorce setting, especially one of high conflict. You know, my Joe was one example. She was a bubbly, you know, singing, dancing, spinning down the hallway type of
kid when she was with me. She was very reserved with her dad, so if we would have had a birthday party together, she would have had to pick which personality she wanted to be, and hands down, kids always picked the high conflict personality parent to cater to because they fear loss of love or that parent being like why are you acting that way? You know, judgment. So having them together, it's not always what your kids want.
I know, maybe you have a six year old or a seven year old and divorce is fresh and they're like, yes, I want you both there, blah blah blah. That's great, But ultimately I also have to ask what's my self worth? Do I put myself in a binding position for an hour and a half just to please my child, So then I'm frozen in fear for an hour and a half that he's going to come in my ear or say something to me, or embarrass me, or you know, talk to the whole room about I'm not putting myself
in that position. I have higher value of myself, so I'm not going to even put myself there. So I'm ten out of ten do not recommend no separate. I can have a great party. And here's what you'll realize in going through divorce. One of you will be the friend party person, and one of you will be the family party person. One of you will be the scavenger hunt person, that's who I am. One of you will be the you know, slip away for a holiday, you know,
a birthday. You will find your own dynamic. You don't have to have a party. This is where you need to start knowing your kid and making it special and unique. Don't do what the Joneses do across the street. Do something cool when you're in a divorce, just to eliminate that whole thing. You know again, second set of kids, I don't do big birthday parties, never doing that shit again. We will do something special, we are not. I'm not hosting thirteen so.
I'm gonna stay up until two am making a pinata from scratch.
Never ever, because I'm gonna be my sixties by the time that shit happens. So it's never ever, you know, like, I'm just not doing that. And again, I think that's where what's important to me. I'm not. You shouldn't be doing things just because other people are. Well, you know, Kevin's parents are married and they're having a group where both they're apparently, then.
You feel like you feel bad because you're not able to have such a peaceful situation. There were times when I opened up my home to my ex and his new girlfriend, and I'll never forget that, you know. I had tried to be so strong and.
Stoic, and then you're exhausted afterwards.
It was my yeah. And I remember sitting there and watching a video compilation that he had put together for the for our daughter for her birthday, and everybody crowded around in the family room and watched this fun video and laughing and having the best time watching it. And there were no images of their mother in the video. Not only that, but the new girl that was being basically told to have a life with was the star of the movie, like it was. She was like the queen.
And I was like, is this really happening?
He did that and slept well at night. And that's where people need to wake up, Like, I'm not setting myself up for that anymore, because.
They're not thinking, what how is she feeling about it?
They don't care, they don't care. They're in it's just not who they are.
They're onto something else.
We went out of our way to make sure we had his favorite drink, you know, Hey, what does she enjoy? Is she a white wine? Red wine? Girl? Like, let me make sure you made sure shit they were comfortable in your home. But then they did not reciprocate. And that's where when that happens once or twice, that's a pattern behavior. Put that on your bingo card and start learning it, because then it's on you if you keep doing.
It, because you're allowing it to happen. Absolutely, and nobody's gonna be mad at you or think you're a bad person if you don't go to your kid's birthday party. Protecting yourself and that's way more important and your kids. Honestly, I feel like my kids were always on pins and needles whenever we were together, although they wanted that desperately, and they would say, can we just all have dinner?
Can we all be together? Because they want that old family unit back together, But the reality of it, it didn't feel good when it was happening. And it wasn't until I found that piece that you talk about finding after eight years that my kids were like, I feel like, now we can be together in the same room and we can have those family experiences again, and there's just there's nothing there for me no emotional pull or desire to prove anything or.
Yeah it's easy. I think eight years was toxic. I went through a phase where I rebuilt and we rode in the car together to a tournament and my daughter rode home with us, and she was like, it was silent. Like the first two minutes, She's like, this is so fucking weird. Like, yeah, she was in high school, but she was like this, this is so bizarre that you're both She was one when we got divorced. She's like, I've never been in the car with the both of you that I can remember now. It was a short
phase where we got along. That that phase was a very small window in her life where we were, you know, kumbayaing it. But that car ride was memorable. It's funny now to look back on that. It was all just a facade, probably by both of us, but we did it. But yeah, it's okay to not ever have those moments again. And now looking back on it, she would she's trained,
and so does my son Walker. They will say, no, don't do shit together because we are different people in front of each parent, and then we don't know who to be and then we have our friends around going why are you acting that way? You know? And it's because there's one parent there that they don't feel comfortable being their true selves with. So no, I think your kids will adjust when you adjust, But if you're not adjusted to it, then you're gonna And here's the other tip.
Stop asking your kids what the hell they want.
They're kids, they don't know.
Why are you seeking validation from a seven year.
Old because you want so badly to make them happy, you'll basically do anything.
No, it's I don't think it's happened.
Is it the guilt of the divorce.
I think it's you want to make sure they're okay with you. You want to make sure that kiddo's still okay with you. Kiddo, you know what do you want? If you want me to go there, I'll go. No, this is where I need to teach my kid a boundary early on. Kiddo. I know you may want us both there, but I didn't ask you. But if you came and told me, I'm responding, and I'm saying, kiddo, I know you may want us both there, but that's
not good for mom. So how about as soon as it's done, I'll pick you up and then we'll go out for ice cream afterwards. But we're not going to be the same place at the same time. Okay, I'm not leaving it up for a discussion, but I think I have a lot of parents that'll say, you know, hey, you know, it's almost time for dad to pick up you know, do you want to go? It's like, why are you even asking your kid that? Like the whole
reassurance thing, we can't be seeking from children. We have to know that we're making good decisions because we're a good parent.
Yeah, we're the parents. What about spring break? Spring break is is here, it's happening, Summer's coming. What about vacations and how that can affect this love to bea and the parenting plan?
So spring break I love to do every other year, so you could even years I get odd years. I know a lot of people are like, let's slit it in half. No way, man, I want to be gone for a full week during my year, and you can be gone during a full week on your year. I'm not coming back on a Wednesday, because then what if there's a delay and then now my vacation plans. I was leaving Wednesday night, and now you've screwed me up. So we're just doing a whole week. You know. Here's
the tricky part, though. We got to put specifics in there about do we get both weekends or just one weekend? So am I going on vacation for spring break? Leading my weekends the first and then it goes for that whole week and then I have to be back by Friday, or do I get to take that second weekend? Those kind of details really really matter for vacations. I recommend three weeks, and some people are always going to look at me and say, Sam, I'm middle class. I can't
do three weeks vacation. Are you kidding me? And here's my perspective on that. Two weeks is pretty normal, but that third week is for a buffer when you have a high conflict X and you say, hey, my sister's getting married in October. It looks like it falls on your weekend. Can I have the kids? No?
No?
Okay, Then I'm booking a week my third week of vacation over that weekend, and now he can't take away that wedding opportunity. That third week is used as a buffer throughout the year for any special occasions that you may need. You can call in your vacation because they can't deny a vacation if your paperwork is written really well. And the other thing about picking three weeks is I want people to start manifesting and understanding that you won't
always be poor. If you change your mindset, you won't always be paycheck to paycheck, barely surviving. You will, especially if you stop going after old toxic money. If you start focusing on rebranding yourself, getting confidence, self worth, you're going to attract not only new people, but new opportunities, and so you can afford three weeks vacation. I would have never thought that at the beginning either when I was a teacher on a teacher salary. But now I
can definitely afford three weeks vacation. But my parenting plan would have been built just on me being a teacher and that salary. Your life's going to change if you want it to.
Yep, you have to clear the way though, clear them bad out.
Yes, get all.
Of the effects, the lingering effects of all that negativity out of your life, out of your mind, and reframe and go on a different path. Because guess what you get to now you get to do whatever you want.
Yes, absolutely, you know, in vacations again, I push my people to do year round vacations January to December, because not everybody can take off work in June and July with their jobs, and it's very pricey to travel just during those months. But again, this is a moral compass question between you and your ex during mediation. Do you
believe that school's more important than in family time? You know, if you pick three weeks of vacation, your ex gets three weeks of vacation, that six weeks if the kids could miss of school, could you put parameters that only two weeks could be during the school year and the rest of it has to be during the summertime. Again, that level of detail, you know, some people may listening be going, oh my gosh, she's a control freak. Push come to shove. You are looking at it from just
your perspective. You're assuming that the other side is going to have the exact same perspective. And I can tell you I wouldn't be popular if that statement was true. Though. You have to write down what you want it to mean, not what you think it should mean. But what does that mean? I write mine at the level that a third grader can understand it. It's not written in legal jargon. It's very simplistic. Parent will do this, Mom will do this,
Dad will do this. Parent one, parent two. However it is, it's got to be easy to follow, not these big, huge, long paragraphs where you have to have a flow chart next to you with notes. None of that.
No, but it's got time for that note.
No, I have to call my lawyer. What does that paragraph mean?
Yeah?
No way.
Well, this has been such a fascinating conversation, Samantha. I just think you're doing God's work basically, you know, coming in and helping people in this such a vulnerable time. And it's really amazing that you're offering this to people. And I actually, if I was in a different situation, different time in my life, I would join your club, your next chapter club.
Thank you, thank you. It's been awesome being on and I hope the listeners just know that don't be ashamed, don't be embarrassed. It's part of it. It's where you're at. You might as well get as much information as you possibly can and know that you've done every thing possible to make the best choice. I have a lot of people that find me too late, like we said at the beginning, where they're like where were you? Or I didn't believe you, or man, you were right, Like don't let that be you.
Maybe I could put you on a retainer just like, you know, just in case.
Yes, absolutely, but I don't want it to have them.
But oh my gosh, you're great. I think you're just great. So keep it up, keep going, You're doing great.
Thank you so much.
Are you going through a high conflict of oors and need some guidance feeling like maybe you don't know what to do? Email us or call us. We are here to help. All of the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I Do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.