Well, our next guest here on the INDJ podcast.
You are very excited about because he is a familiar face to us. TJ.
We met Pastor Levi Lusco in September of twenty twenty one. We had a favorite segment when we hosted GMA three.
What was that segment?
It was Faith Friday. And I'm thinking back to September of twenty twenty one. Oh, what a simpler time it was for us, wasn't it?
Yes, it certainly was.
Oh yes, But we were able to have on faith leaders every Friday who would lead our viewers into the weekend with some inspiration, and we certainly took so much with us as well, and it ended up becoming our favorite segment. And so yes, I remember you remember Pastor Levi Lusco. He has a powerful story of how he became the amazing person he is and I know he's
still becoming. But cool thing as anyone who is a fan of the podcast, I hope knows that one of my best friends, we've done one or two podcasts with her.
Nikki Espina.
She's my running buddy, she's my best friend, and she happened to go to Brooklyn the other day to go to a run club that was hosted by none other than Pastor Levi Lusco, and she said, Oh my gosh.
I ran into Levi Lusco. He has a brand new book out.
It's called and I'm going to give you guys the title here because I love it. Blessed are the Spiraling, How the chaotic search for significance can lead to joy through life's shifting seasons. And she sent me the book and she said, you gotta listen to this. But also I got to run with him. I got to run
with Levi's daughter, his wife. It was an inspiring moment, and so I thought, wow, I didn't First of all, I didn't know that Pastor Lusco ran and was such a big runner, and we already had something in common with him. And then I just thought, let's bring him on and talk about them. So without further ado, Pastor Levi Lusco, thanks for being with us today.
Oh my gosh, it's such a joy. I look back so fondly on meeting you guys back in the day, and I've always had such warmth in my heart towards you. And so what a small fun world to collide. I've tracked with your journey I love watching the runs TJ. Your hamstring thing. I felt the pain with you. Yeah, so it's really thank you for having me on the podcast.
That's cool to hear. And to your title, can I get right to that? Blessed are the Spiraling? Now? A lot of people can relate to that, and I think about a year and a half ago, we would have considered ourselves right in the thick of that. Who are the spiraling? Is that essentially everybody?
I think sadly it tends to be almost all of us at some point or another, usually at life's transition moments. But we all end up spiraling, and not always through bad things. I mean, we can spiral because of grief. Of course, a job or career change, a catastrophic crisis you go through can do it. For me, I went through a lot of it. The spiral that I talk about from the perspective of in the book was at the end of my thirties, kind of that midlife energy.
For whatever reason, so many people when they hit the apex point of life, the halfway point, there comes a lot of destabilization. Part of that's necessary so that you can get rid of what's not important, focus on what you're supposed to do retool sort of for the second half of life. But interestingly enough, early life crisis is actually even more prevalent than a midlife or a later
life crisis. But spiraling comes in all shapes and sizes, and it can even be weirdly enough, through something good. You can spiral because of something you always wanted. You maybe always wanted to be a parent, but then you have kids and turns out there's complications too it, so, yeah.
Things aren't always what they seem. You get that dream job and then you realize you're still not happy.
That definitely happened to me.
Where you're in the job that you'd been chasing your whole life, and then you get there and you think, why am I still not happy? You talk about midlife crises in this book, but you say, this isn't about like getting the sports car or changing who you're married to, or you know, dressing differently.
It's actually much deeper than that.
Yeah, I think a lot of times to your point, Amy, we sort of build up in our heads what an accomplishment is going to feel like, or what it's supposed to feel like when we quote unquote arrive Seth Godin talks about how he always wanted to be a New York Times bestseller and the day it finally happened, his assistant called to tell him it had happened, and he
was horrified because he felt nothing. And I think sometimes we build up what these things are going to feel like, and they cannot help but disappoint us because you know, it's just it's different. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. But what I'm trying to communicate is that blessings and burdens are both heavy, and so they can easily be mistaken for one for another. And so I think it's learning not just what we're facing, but how to think
about what we're facing. And I am a person of faith like you guys, and I love the words of Jesus and the beatitudes. Blessed are the poor and spirit. Blessed are those who moarn. Blessed are those who are persecuted, who are reviled. Now, none of those things we would consider blessings. We want the lottery scratcher to win. We want the front parking spot at the gym, which is hilarious in its own way, that we need the front row of parking spot before we because Heaven forbid we
work out on the way to working out. Real talk there. But I think, according to Jesus, the true blessings comes not when we're getting everything we ever wanted, but in the difficulty, when we press into Him and we truly experience the joy that's possible even in the midst of trials.
Can you hit on something a little more, you kind of scratch the surface there. But this idea, and I'm sure somebody heard it when you said it, when you get exactly what you want, you thought it was what you wanted, and you thought this was the thing that was going to make you happy, and you were chasing, and then you get it and you feel nothing.
What does that mean? I think it means that we pin our hopes of happiness on things when things don't really bring happiness. Possessions and status, all of the things in the world. Jesus said it's possible to gain the
whole world, but lose your soul. The translation I like for that verse actually means lose your very self, and we can end up mistakenly thinking that success for whatever that means in the season of life we're in, is going to somehow fulfill us and what we are meant to create, I believe, especially in the second half of life. But it's true in all of life, is that there are things that are far more significant than just success,
than being perceived as being important or whatever. But it's funny even Jesus's disciples struggled with this because here he is trying to go to the cross come out of the tomb, and his disciples are arguing about which one of them's the greatest disciple. And it's so easy to kind of benchmark ourselves based on do I have more, have I accomplished more, Do I have more followers? Do I have more shine or riz or whatever it is in the world's eyes. And so I think it's it's
learning to recalibrate, learning where to find true significance. And I think that's the million dollar question.
Pastor LEVI, Man, you what you just said hit so hard with me, and I'm guessing with TJ as well, just because as much as I don't think I wanted to consider my value wrapped up or a part of or because of what I did for a living, but man, when it's all taken away, when you're stripped down to the very bare minimum of who you are and what counts and what matters. All that stuff that you use to distract yourself or to fill yourself up or to make yourself feel important.
When it all is gone, you are forced to face what is within.
And that is so difficult and at times felt like hopeless in moments. But it's only I think, when you get to that place where you're forced to face how we're valuing ourselves and how we value each other. You know, we you know, just had a very like all in your face all at once, just avalanche of that.
But my god, I am a better person because of it.
So I'm hearing what you have to say and it's resonating, but it's really hard, And how do you even know? How do you even confront that if you don't have some explosive thing.
That happens to you.
I mean maybe something happens to everyone at some point, but how do you get to that place of recognition?
You know, what you're describing is so important. What we think is going to make us happy is usually not what truly brings meaning to our lives. If you were to ask the average person, would you rather have cancer or win the lottery, like most people are going to hello, I'd like to win the lottery. Yet most lottery winners find that it does not enrich their lives in many ways, can complicate and even destroy their life in the fabric
of their friendships and relationships. And yet almost every cancer survivor, without question, who comes through the experience says, I have a greater sense of gratitude, I have a greater sense of appreciation. I'm more thankful and more grounded. I mean, Jeremy Renner, who got run over by a fourteen thousand pounds snowplow, says, when you ask Joe Rogan said are you better? Have you recovered from that? And he said, I haven't just recovered. I'm better, I'm one hundred and
fifty percent. I'm more thankful. There are so many gifts. I'm so grateful for that experience. What is that? That is the stripping away? He lost everything, thirty eight broken bones, liver, peers, lung, collapsed, brain, skull crushed, and yet he's coming through saying I'm so thankful I went through that. You know what you guys are describing, And in my life grief, lost, death, pain, And I think for me even my midlife crisis sort of exposed me to how much of my identity and
ego were connected to youth. Because I was ordained as a pastor at twenty, and as I kind of pastored around the world, traveling got opportunities. Every time, it was always just oh, this young pastor, this young pastor, and I didn't realize how much of that kind of had had had led to how I saw me. And I don't think we know what makes us us until it gets taken from us, and then we find out if we were building on sand or rock. And the only true meaning, as I see it, that actually lasts eternity
is our standing before God, our love from Jesus. And I think when we build our lives and our relationships on those things that can't get taken away, then we're able to go through whatever trials we want, and there's going to be true Joy.
I'm going back to the title of your book here you're talking. You called it chaotic. Was a chaotic search for significance. Go through that part of that we can all kind of relate to. All Right, we're all searching for something. Want to be a part of search for significance makes sense, but explain what we're doing there chaotic.
So Ronald Rollheiser said that success still feels good in the second half of life, it just has less to teach us. Okay, So what we're trying to learn how to do is to focus less just on what we do that makes us feel important and what we can do that actually enriches our lives, which is to help
and to ennoble other people. So the way I talk about it in the book, because I see life through movies, we all want to be Luke Skywalker or Princess Leah forever, but we need in life to graduate to being Obi wan Kenobi and then eventually to be Yoda. Right. Yoda spent his life at the Yoda Academy, teaching and distilling
principles of wisdom to help other people. And there's a beauty in that to not trying to stay forever young and stay at the top of our game because we can't do that, but instead too great fully accept that seasons of life contain God's glory, even if they're not all the season that we look at as like that's
our my glory days. Right, And so the chaotic search for significance is as we navigate the shifting seasons of life and pain and betrayal and confusion and our own bad decisions too, because part of for me, I know
I'm complicit in my own suffering. Some of my spiraling is self inflicted, you know, whether expectations or narcissism, that I struggle with, my own addiction to social media, and you know that I can't silence those things and just get out and take a run more often, which is part of the way running Running has become therapeutic for me, because there's nothing that comes with you in the chaos of life when you're out on a run, hopefully, and and so I think it's learning even when I'm feeling
like I co'm spiraling, to instead say hey, what can I do? How can I focus? How can I call and encourage somebody? How can I do something for somebody else? What can I do good for me and my connection to my soul, my wife, my kids? And you always come away from those things better because they're significant. They're not just the flashy you know, less of the flesh, less of the eyes, pride of life, steps that the world wants you to focus on.
I know that so much of anyone who is a part of self help, and it's about finding the joy from within that it's not looking at it from outside sources or external sources. However, I know that you and your wife Jenny of twenty one years, have you been married for twenty one years?
Congratulations first of all, but you all.
Actually have published marriage devotionals and you you actually tell people, teach people how to have a stronger marriage.
How important is the partner you choose to go through life with.
Oh, it's massive.
So important is that to your own personal joy and peace?
I think it's massively important. And when we wrote the marriage devotional are goal was to not paint because I think we've all read books on marriage that are unrealistic and like trying to like pretend that perfection is achievable, but that's not going to happen. We we deal with each other. We're broken. We all have, you know, shadow sides and all that and pain and family of origin stuff,
and that's difficult. But I think accepting that that we're gonna we're gonna grow together, that we can make progress, which is all that God wants from us, that we just take a step forward. You know, he sees us as little kids. And I think to the extent that
we can have compassion and empathy and curiosity. So for Jenny and I think we've discovered that when maybe she's seeing a strong emotional reaction to me or vice versa, and we can, instead of being matching that energy, instead to be curious and go, oh, I wonder where that's coming from. That's not normally had any response to something like that, and and come from a place of curiosity and wonder and empathy, and that our connection can can maintain.
What my counselor likes to say is hydration. You know, we all know what I like it's like to have dry skin. We put lotion on. Well, our marriages are our relationships can get dehydrated, and so what sort of moistens the bond or keeps it hydrated thus not cracking
and not painful. Is is of course love, languages, time spent, questions that are asked, little little thoughtful things, And I think whatever we can do to grow and to take a step forward in our relationship, it's just going to bring blessing to our lives as well.
What do you do, though, pastor, I guess when your partner reacts a certain way and you're not curious at all, and you really don't care. It's probably not good, huh.
I think the biblical word would be repentance, change your mind, you know, And I think it is really important. And I try and point out like we're not always going to feel like doing the right things right. I don't oft I feel often like a Taco bell drive through and not a kale salad. But I'm going to feel afterwards so much better when I do what I don't feel like doing. And I like how C. S. Lewis said that worship, when we worship God, it's not a
feeling that we express through an action. It's an act of obedience that oftentimes develops feelings on the back end. So in the Book of Ephesians, Paul says husbands love your wives. He never says, feel like loving your wife. And you know, we talk to people sometimes to go, oh, I just didn't I fell out of love or I just didn't feel like doing it. It's like, well, you can choose to do what you don't feel and oftentimes you'll you'll get the feeling on the back end as a gift.
What else do you have that can you lend to people in that moment that it's that moment? What else could you offer to people as advice when they're feeling terrible but then there's someone else who needs help, or there's someone else who wants their attention. That that moment where you just feel so down and you don't feel like doing anything else but balling up and crying, and why isn't everybody feeling sorry for me?
Yeah?
What do you advise in that moment to get them to that obedience? Talk about?
Well, two things. First of all, that's relatable. We all have days where we're just having pity party parties and no one knows the troubles I've seen and all the rest. I think a lot of times we have to do the exact opposite of what we're feeling. You know, you feel like pulling the covers over your head. That's what it's most important to get out and take a walk, take a run, turn your phone off and get in nature. I think one of the things, especially as we live
lives in urban areas, we're created to crave creation. So people get better in hospitals even if they have a view of a tree outside the window, faster and they take less medicine than if they're in a self contained environment. So I think we can choose to get around animals, we can get around nature. Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, and there's a certain awe that
comes from being in the midst of a park. And they say that you have higher levels of empathy, generosity, creativity, and lower levels of stress after you've done something that induces awe. And this is a psychology Todays study. They said all comes from a religious service. Or go to church, or listen to worship music or a Christian podcast right, or go to a museum and look at painting you could have met. You're gonna walk away feeling awe. There's
a sense of transcendence. I mean you're looking at Louis the fourteenth bedroom set. I mean it's like you're like, well, that's incredible of some of the paintings, sculptures, but then also being in nature. So I think on our low moments, we can do either do something good for ourself or do something that's good for others. And they spell joy, Jesus, others, yourself, And when we flip it and put ourselves first, we
don't experience joy. But when it's God first and then other people then us, I think we actually get to tap into something better than just our own happiness.
That's amazing, And you know it's true anyone.
I mean, I love being out in nature, and we were just in Arkansas even and for us living in New York City sometimes it's difficult, and I do feel a little oppressed. And then the moment I get out and I see rolling hills and green grass and trees, like my whole mood lifts and changes. So that speaks so to me, and I think that that, yes, when you're feeling sad or low like for us runners, I've
always said running has been my therapy. I've obviously also sought therapy, but running is just that moment where you're forced to push through pain to do something you don't want to do. Sometimes it sounds counterintuitive, but anyone who runs nos a lot of the times you're running and you want to stop, but you do it anyway, and it's when you finish that's when you feel that moment.
So I totally get that.
Yeah.
When we were preparing to release the book Blessed Aspiraling, my publisher had said, do you want to do a book too, or we could do some signings at some independent bookstores around the country. And we had this idea to attach run clubs to it, which is how I met your friend, Nikki, because I thought to myself, number one, I'm going to have to get an exercise on the road anyway, and I'd rather do it for work than
just do it for leisure. And I thought it would be a fun experience to get to meet some our readers who over the years have read our books, and it ended up being one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. We started in Dallas, ended in Brooklyn, and we had seven cities, seven runs, seven days. Every day we would do a signing and then anybody that wanted to we would just go to a three mile social run with them. And the amount of like meeting Nikki,
talking to her, hearing her story. My daughters were with us, my wife ran with us, my son ran with us, and then getting to meet someone who a woman in the Brooklyn run said, I haven't run since my divorce. It was always something I did with my ex husband and I haven't been able to go there. But when I saw this, I felt like this could be my catalyst to run again, and so she got to go out and run, and her meeting other people and saying this was a big deal for me to conquer that fear.
We met someone who was going through grief, and I felt stuck and stagnant. And I think sometimes when we're grieving, we feel like, why she just eat the ice cream and just stay home, But we end up feeling worse because of those things. So getting out and running. We saw two people at to Houston Run who they became best friends that night, and they were both left handed. They were both astrophysicists, and they both were tennis players who didn't have tennis partners. And so by the end
of night they're like exchanging phone numbers. They're going to play tennis and be left handed and do astrophysics. And it was just one of those neat community things of running together. And I kept telling the people, I can't run your race for you, but I can run it with you. And I think when we remember we're not alone, other people are going through hard things and let's just keep running, it's a great metaphor for life.
You are speaking our language.
Yes, running has saved us more times than we could even care to share three time.
Yeah, at times we've been running from people.
That is true.
We have.
Blessed are you?
You recently posted Pastor Levi something on Instagram and I wanted you to explain it because it caught my attention and I wanted to know.
I wanted to go deeper with you.
You posted this quote you don't need to try harder, you need to trust more.
What does that mean?
Well, I know for me, I tend to have a really unhealthy relationship with myself and it's all performance. I'm in Enneagram three e NTJ. So I'm so sick that, like even a birthday, I struggle with not from the aging process as much as I always I don't feel worthy. I don't feel like if I if I accomplish, if I haven't accomplished something, I don't necessarily feel like I
should get a cake. And you know, so I tend to I find myself even like waiting to open a present until I feel like I can meet a deadline. And so I felt like the other day God was saying to me Levi, I wish you could see you like I see you, And God was saying I just love you. You don't need to do anything to earn my love. You just need to accept my love. And like the prodigal son didn't earn the party or the robe, or the ring or the feast, the father just loved him.
And so when I posted that, I was trying to communicate it's not about what we have to do to make God happy. I think sometimes religion pushes us into this mentality where we're always getting angry eyes from God and he's just saying, what have you done for me lately? You better make the sure, you better quit cussing, you better, you know whatever, and when really he just wants us to love him and be loved by him, and that's
challenging for a striver like me, a doer. And so I think there's power and surrender power in realizing God is wanting to give us salvation as a gift, not as a wage, and we don't need to earn his love.
Do you make a obviously your religious and faith based in your books, your teachings, and but what do you or how do you or do you try to at all try to get people and get a message out to folks who aren't religious, who are turned off by religion, not that you're trying to turn them in any way of form or fashion, but do you make a conscious effort to make sure your message can be digested by people outside of the faith world.
Oh yes, I mean that's my goal. And heartbeat is Jesus changed my life. I was fourteen experimenting with drugs and alcohol, suicidal, and that's when I met Jesus and he opened my eyes, gave me love, helped me understand the power of true relationship with him, and that how I found that through through scripture and through the church.
And I want everyone to experience that who's hurting and who's anxious, and who's troubled, and who feels like they're judged, whether it's through bad decisions they've made or pain they've
gone through. And so my goal is for sure, especially for people who think, oh, I wouldn't like My favorite is when I invite someone to church and they say, oh, the roof would fall down on me if I came in there, and I go, well, hasn't fallen down on me yet, you know, And then to say like you might think you don't like Jesus, but wait till you meet him. Wait till you mean, wait till you read what he has to say, what he wants to say
to you. That is powerful. And so my hope would be to build a bridge to people who especially who feel like they're outside the church or outside the wall of God's love.
And Pastor Levi, for people who don't know your full story. You have a son, you have four beautiful daughters, Olivia, Daisy, Clover, and Lenya who passed away, and we talked to you about her passing in the books you have written since then for children and for adults to get through grief.
But did you go into a place of why me?
I mean, the passing of a child I think is probably the worst thing any of us could imagine happening. But anyone else who's gone through something terrible or awful or unfair or unjust have often said those words, why me? This isn't fair, and they question their faith and they question their reason for living. Oftentimes, how did you get through that? And what do you counsel to people?
Yeah, I loved when we got to talk about Lenya because it was her that allowed us to meet. I wouldn't know you two if it wasn't for Lenya her going to heaven prompted the writing of Roar Like a Lion, which is what I was on GMA three promoting, And you guys were so sweet and you were so obviously impacted by her story, her life. She was five years old.
She had an asthma attack five days before Christmas. She died in my arms while I was doing CPR, and that night we were able to make the incredibly difficult but important decision to give her corneas and her heart valves to an organ transplant organization, and they took her corneas and they gave them to two blind people, and we found out later those two blind people received site.
And that's the metaphor of the book through the eyes of a Lion, because her nickname was Lenda Lyon, and so of course when that happened, and that was thirteen years ago, so I've had a lot of chance to grieve and heal my family and I and we miss her every day when I drive, I drove by her grave coming to today, and I miss her, but I'm also looking forward to her because the Bible says in my father's house are many mansions, and I go to
prepare a place for you, and what ultimately Christianity stands on is not a set of teachings, but it's the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, and he promises that because of his resurrection, we all will share in that resurrection life. And so Lenya is not thirteen years in my rearview mirror. Every day as I age and grow, I'm getting closer to her because she's in my future, not just my past, because of Jesus. And so for me, I want to share that with as many people as
I can. And that's what through the Eyes of a Lion is about. It's facing incredible pain but finding incredible power. Right. It's also roar like a lion, helping kids process grief. And so even though there was definitely sad moments, low moments, grief is powerful and you have to let it run its course. And so I would have I would run the gamut of anger and bargain and all of those
different things by lunchtime, but there wasn't as much. Why I think the anger and all those things, I think God just met me where I was as I was honest with him of what I was facing, and I think what God kind of told me was even if you knew why, it wouldn't help you. This is going to be hard no matter what. But I'm with you, and Linya's with me, and I found great comfort. Especially I don't know if you guys have watched The Chosen the Betrayal of Jesus on episodes of TV.
We haven't seen it. We haven't seen it.
You have to watch it. It's incredible. It's five there's five seasons. It walks you through the Gospels and it's portrayed on screen beautifully. Jonathan Rumy And there's an episode where Jesus is hanging out with little kids, and the Bible says little kids loved to be around Jesus, and the disciples thought they needed to show him off because they were a nuisance. But Jesus said, let the kids come to me. And when you watch in the scene,
you see the tenderness and the curiosity, the whimsy. Jesus makes toys. He's a carpenter, he would make toys for little kids. It made me feel such a sense of like, Hey, my daughter's good, she's with she's with God, and I'm gonna I'm going to see her again.
It's beautiful. That is so beautiful, so pastor live. How many books have you written now?
Nine total. I have one unreleased book that comes out this fall. That's a book about worry and anxiety for children.
Wow.
Wow, that is That is a very useful book and a very much needed book.
Just the way we're all headed.
We I think so many people have talked about we have more therapy available than ever before, and more drugs available than ever before, and yet the suicide rates continue to rise, depression rates continue to rise. So we very much look forward to that. And I mean you're just you're continuing your work through the written word, but also your pastoral services. You you're in Montana, but you you actually you have an online people can see you wherever they are in the world.
Correct.
Yeah, it's a what a gift. I mean, talk about a double edged sword. What you just mentioned is so true. And I think if you look back, literally the hockey stick up of anxiety and suicide and the iPhone are literally in in. You know, there's there's there's there's a negative to the technology. There's a negative to TikTok, there's a negative to YouTube. There's a pressure that comes from that. But there's also the good and for for one of the good things that I've been grateful for is every
time I preach. I've you know, we have this church in Montana, but every time we preach, there's people listening in every single state and all across the world because of YouTube. And so there's the negative, but there's also the positive of that.
Yeah, when you're running again, what's you got a race on your calendar?
Oh my gosh, we need to run together. I'm doing it. We are staff. Every summer we do a staff run. We call it the Two Snakes Invitational because the first time we did it, we saw two snakes on the course. It's a you would love this. It's ten miles, but you gain two thousand feet of elevation in the first five and then you come down two thousand feet so down you're flying because your feet barely shuts the ground but ups the grind.
Oh where is this?
We do it in just outside of Whitefish for our staff.
But that sounds fun.
You guys got a gut here, we get a run or all come out to New York and one of the other.
Right, you have takers for that run. People actually do that with you out there.
Two snakes Our staff is crazy. They love it, and we bring in rental saunas and cold plunges so at the end, at the finish line, we all get in the cold plun Have you guys gotten into all that stuff.
I've done a cold plunge a couple of times. Sometimes Oh my gosh, it can take your breath away and scare you a little bit.
But yeah, it's you feel great when you get out, for sure.
But managing your breath. I mean, they say that I have trouble sleeping. They say it resets your kind of rhythm for sleep, the anxiety, the grit, and also just the reminder like I can do hard things because i want to get out of the water, but I'm gonna breathe my way through. I feel like that's transferable to other areas of life.
Agreed, Levitt, We are not kidding. Please, please please, when you are coming to New York, give us a heads up. We will absolutely plan a run. We'll have you in studio do the whole thing, but at the very least we'll get a run in together. You gotta let us know you got it.
Last time we were training for the Two Snakes last summer, I was coming back from London and we had a two day layover in New York and just slowly working our way west by taking the time change away. We had started in South Africa and then we ended at London and New York and then Montana eventually, so each day two days like to help the time change, you know, moving that way. But I was I had when I
got home, we had the two snakes. That's so my final training run was I did nine miles around Central Park. I did it was like one and a half times around it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, did you do the Harlem Hill twice?
It was Father's Day? Was knowing up it was amazing. What's your favorite New York run?
The West Side Highway as our jam. We love it, we love it. But I also love running over the Brooklyn Bridge because we're really close to that, so that's really fun, and then running along Dumbo and all of that. Just looking back at Manhattan as gorgeous too. But yeah, there's a ton of beautiful places. We like Central Park. We just don't get up there that all and.
We get lost in the park.
We can't figure it out. Have you run the Golden Gate Bridge?
I have run it, just just when I was on a work assignment my hairstylist and I ran over the bridge and back.
It was I love running on bridges.
That's a very mean too, Brooklyn. I've done the Golden Gate. I was like trying to think of like what other like like the I don't know if it would be safe, but like that Key West One would be fun. That Race Highway, I don't know, that would be beautiful.
The Cooper River bridges. They do that in South Carolina.
I ran that race before, although now it's just one bridge, I think, but I'm showing my age clearly. We need to run, we need to run together, and we would love to. In fact, even if it's when your next book comes out. You're back in New York doing your press tour, we would love to have you back in. We'd love to go on a run with you.
It sounds like a day and then Monte as well. So thanks for having me on today.
Oh, Pastor Levi Lasco, thank you so much for inspiring us. It was nice to talk to you more than three and a half minutes, which was our segment time on GMA three. Nice to have you to really actually get to hear you talk about just your beautiful faith and sharing it with all of us.
So thank you, have a beautiful day and we will run with you soon