An Affair To Remember with Margaret Josephs and Joe Benigno

It's I Do Part two. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler. You know me from the Real Housewives of New Jersey and the podcast I co host to Jersey Jays. I have been having so much fun on this podcast, getting to chat with people who found love in their chapter two and today my guests are my dear friends, an amazing couple. Everyone loves them. You know them from Real Housewives of New Jersey. Please help me welcome Margaret Joseph's and Joe Binigno.

Oh my god, we're so happy to be here. Hi, you guys with our dear friend Jen Fessler.

Yes, I have to say, so far, since I've started hosting these I Do Part two, I've had only really people that I love on Friends. Oh, I have those farmers on who I did love them too. I have to be honest, I love it.

I have to listen to the fun Yes, who the farmer?

They are so cute, They're adorable. They're doing this new show. But we digress. So we're here to talk about Margaret and Joe. You guys, We're going to go through some things for our listeners that things that I probably know but they don't and I know things that you know because we have a lot of viewers and listeners that are not necessarily even housewives people. So, yes, is there anybody? Is there anybody in this world?

And I understand it a lot of people don't watch.

Housewise, that's true. Well, yes, okay, So let's talk a little bit about to get to chapter two, we're going to start with chapter one. So I want to know a little bit about your first marriages, and Joe, let's start with you. I don't know you know, however, much you want to kind of reveal about what it was like in your first marriage. How old were you when you got married? How many kids?

I guess a brief synopsis would be, Yes, I was married when I was thirty years old.

That's old.

Yeah, I was old.

Jeff thirty six.

Was the last one of my friends. And I had the first kid when I was thirty five. Okay, and I have a son and a daughter, and one is now thirty four. The other was thirty three, right three.

Yes, Yes, I love the ask, Margaret, you're me and I didn't birth those you asking.

Over time, we grew apart, as couples do occasionally when you have kids. When they have, there's a lot of stress involved with the children. Basically we were like we were mostly separated for a few years before the divorce because we lived like almost separate lives.

Is that what it was? I just think that you were two different people. Just say, no, Joe, why didn't you just be candids? You were very different people.

Because I'm going to be seventy years old this year and my freaking brain don't want.

I don't even believe you.

No, impossible, No, why don't you just be very candid? You were very different people.

Well, let me ask you were extremely different before you met Margaret. Was the marriage already? Were you already on the out?

Yes, you were for a long time. I was. We had way different ideas on basically everything. After the kids came and the kids wanted to hang out as kids do, they want to hang out with the dad and play around, and the mother wants to be strict and the dad lets them fool around.

So that is that was that sort of when it started, like the separation between like.

Child child real things that we'd like to do, Like, we had completely different ideas on what was fun you know for us as a couple. Yeah, and it just diverged from there, and then I wanted my kids to get into college before I before I thought about separating or getting divorced, because this way they were separated out of the entire arguments.

So interesting because I remember those thoughts going through my mind when Jeff and I separated. My kids were much younger, but I thought, Okay, we can't get divorced until they go to college, and we should get all of that stuff. And then I don't know how you guys felt, but like my kids went to college, it would have been maybe even harder, at least in my situation, I feel

I mean, Joe's so funny. He's like, he doesn't really talk about his first marriage. It's absolutely kind of fight. You're like, wow, we grew apart in the past.

You know, it's I.

Mean, are you guys well jumping ahead, but are you guys in a place right now where she could hear it, like hear you talking about.

Oh, let me say this. My ex wife is buddies with my wife.

Yeah, now we're very good only Margaret, Joseph Margaret.

It was important to me because we did not have a good relationship, his ex wife myself. But now we do and I think she's you know, we've come to a very good place. We bonded over a common enemy. So that was you know that was and wait my head is spinning over yet. Is that would be Joe's son's ex wife, got it? Yes, which is great. Yes, we love you know her and I both agreed. She was never good enough for our for our son. Nothing like us nat daughter, nothing like a nasty daughter. And

Yes, I'm sure of course.

I mean that was like your third engagement.

It was well, practice makes perfect.

Wow, Okay, Joe was not candid. You hared like numerous engagements before you married.

I went out a real lot.

I was like a whore, really, man, Well, whore is not I mean engaged? Whore is one thing? Joe, just I have to I want to giggle a little bit because Joe's.

Care Joe's very his chair went all the way. Yes, you're graceful about it.

I don't have to stand up. Yeah, there you go, There you go. But I mean engagements, I mean I believe it in terms of the horring, I had my own horring that went down in my twenties. But in terms of engagement, so you were engaged twice before you tied the knot.

Twice or three times?

Joe, Joe was having what is going on here that you're you're you're not remembering? Don't you get asked a lot about that?

Do you?

Guys get out?

We get people ask us about how we miss. Yeah, I know that's from from like that second forward.

So that's I was just thinking that that's easy to I was thinking that broken engagements met his wife, they got married. You know, Joe was a very nice I think a devoted first husband and a devoted second husband.

But I think you were more devoted second husband.

Okay, yeah, that's a nice thing to say. Oh he is, he's a great husband. I can't I know, but even saying that for you know, I think it was wife. I don't know if she would agree, But I mean that's a nice things say.

Yeah, I don't know what you would say.

Okay, I think you were a good husband. You were good, you were a good provider, you were home a lot. You didn't go way. Let you want like a dirty stay out?

Oh no, okay, No, I can't believe you just had dirty stay out. My best friend uses that expression all the time. One of my favorites.

You know, unlike your wife.

You know, my wife is a dirty stay out.

I love to stay out.

I was gonna I was about to say, I know you're talking about your ex wife to me, dirty stay out is dirty.

No, I wasn't dirty. I'm gonna stay.

I stay my late nights.

I'm not dirty.

I know I call it a dirty stay out because she's not home supper with me.

No, yes, that's you guys. My head is I have to slow down because my head is spinning. I'm like, as you're saying that, I would know. I wanted to say, like how Joe always wants you to be there at the airport, like to pick him up, Like these guys have the greatest relationship.

And I'm not doing the airport pickup. I never I think it's rude that he even asks. But I know it happens.

It happen twice.

I don't think it's nice to ask. Again, don't even ask. I'm taking a car service. Would I want someone to pick me up at the airport and won an airport pick up? Don't ask me to pick up the airport, neither my cail Ie to pick him up at the airport service. I'm not wasting for yes, exactly, I'm not sring.

I digress. Yeah, I'm digressing. So you and Jan were madly in love when you met.

Yes, I was really crazy for him. Yes, I think because he had the three kids. It was important to me to marry someone who was a good father, you know, maybe the good husband part. You know, I missed out on a little not that he was a bad husband, but he was controlling, he was older, you know, and he was a great guy, you know. But it was his second so I was his second, right, I had the second wife. I've never been a first wife, right, So the you know, I was younger. I was twenty four.

Okay, because it was I do. I thought I knew everything. Twenty four I must have known twenty four to forty four, Just real, quickly, just how did you meet a forty four year old to.

Twenty I worked in the garment center, right, yes, dress designer. He owned Joseph's brother's lace and embroidery. You know, very you know, the Joseph's brothers. You know big in the lace and embroidery. Okay, you know, garment center is very different. He had just gotten divorced. You know. He looked younger, but he was. He was a great father. He had custody of three children. His ex wife was nervous about that. Age twenty four. I was delusional. I thought it was

Because people think you're maternal on the world.

In our inner circle, okay, but in because I don't you know, put my kids on television everything else. People don't Joe knows. I'm like a hoverer, right, What am I like?

Yeah? Never end it? Does it?

It? No? I mean I know your relationship.

Yeah with my son and yes, and then Jane and I had a son together, which you know, we're not going to say names because I don't like to put it out there. Yes, and same thing. I think, you know, it's very hard when you have children someone and I think the thing with you knows though, I think he was his amazing father, very devoted father. I said to him, you know, you got the father thing so perfect, you know. The second time, Ra'm I don't think it got the

Or Jam Jam Jams, not the husband thing.

Joe's perfect.

Yes, I'm obsessed with agreed.

Do I not say it?

Yes?

Yes? Never Ever. In the last few weeks, have I not had a new found obsession again?

Yeah, I don't understand.

I love that I have.

I've been trying.

I've been like, you're unbelievable. I've had a new found obsession.

I've been he's watching all these MOPI movies, I think that's what it is.

But I you know, but I do.

I'm happy the life I had the first time. I had a beautiful life, a beautiful family. You know, it was great. But we did grow apart. I think I change. You change as you get older. Yeah, I don't regret anything, but you know, I wanted something different. We were combative.

You know, you're either one of you thinking of divorce before you met each other. Were you gonna sit it out?

Oh?

You both were in that mind test? Yes, oh absolutely? Did you talk about it with your exit.

I mean I was.

Definitely in therapy, couples therapy. We were in therapy. We had issues. I did not you know, I was married twenty years long, which is a long time because I was a young girl.

It's a long time. I'm learning all this stuff. I thought I knew it all.

Yeah, I was a young I mean I was with him twenty years. Maybe I was married eighteen or the twenty, you know, but we were together. I was twenty four. I didn't move out till I was forty four, right, but we I was with him a very long time, and I did you know Joe's kids had gone to college. But yeah, we we had known each other for years, for years really, yeah, but we never.

Not as like as like sort of acquaintances.

Was there a spark when you guys like, was there always a flirtation going on when you saw each other?

No, never a flirtation. Inter see each other parties. We're friends with this lovely gay couple who were decorators and Turier designers, Marco and Chris and Marco right, okay who you know broke up also?

Right?

Yeah?

And so you would see each other with your exes, yes, okay, Yes, we'd.

Be at parties. Joe's wife would never go to My wife never went.

Well maybe maybe once a dinner for Marco's dad.

Yeah, And then we would see each other at these events, and Joe and I would always chu, you know, just nicely. But then years later I needed work done in my home.

Yeah, and you had some work done in your home.

I had some work done in my home.

But all my guys used to do work for Chris. We used to do he was like a big decorator, so we would do entire homes. So it was basically written apart and make beautiful edifices. Right, And so they told me and I don't really pay attention to names. My brain is dead. So they told me we were going to go over Margaret's and I said, Margaret, Well Margaret, No, I said, who know? Hells Margaret. I didn't remember. And they were like, no, no, you know who she is.

What I was wearing.

She was wearing a wife beater and no bra.

I was wearing my pajaws, my fear of bro and pigtails.

I can't pigtails.

Let me just tell you, for all our listeners, that's not that unusual Margaret. I've seen Margaret. We've all seen Margaret to nowhere to know what she looks like naked. She's a very free spirit. Yes, And I came down to.

My pajoh on bottoms like and the little ribbed tank top and no bra. But any of you know what that is, you guys.

It's a very thin material. Yes, it is, So that was it where you just hooked that well, my god, it was.

Just about hooked right on the spot.

But yeah, but it wasn't like all of a sudden, Oh my god. You know we developed a friendship. We were both in bad marriages. You know, it's not like all of a sudden, I'm like sleeping with Joe. It's not. That's not the way it happened. It was months and months long time.

I remember you told me a story that I actually thought was very romantic, where you guys were in the city walking across the street coming from pace. So tell that story. I love that story.

It is it is.

It's complicated obviously because at that point that you guys were both married, but it tells the story, and you.

Know it was between you and it was and you know, I didn't think I was gonna have a weird went to discuss work. I used to put up these displays for business.

She brought these plans that were like multiple pages, and I really normally for work. I look at it. I got the gist. I know what we're going to do. Now we don't have to talk about anymore. But I'm looking at these plans, say.

I was at the bar at noon at you or a cocktail.

I probably die.

He's remembering, like the actual business of it. You're remembering, like the fact that is hard.

Told me I thought it was odd I met went to me in Pesties at noon and you ordered a cocktail. It's like, wow, that's so weird. He's wearing your cocktail at noon. Well, anyway, I kept the shirt. I saw the shirt I wore that day. It was a little western shirt with little flowers.

And it was but did you know at that point where you're like, this is because but I.

Wanted to look cute. And I remember I had platform high heels and bell bottom jeans. Shocker.

I don't remember what it wore.

But you were having the cocktail, did you? Were you a little or was it just Margaret bringing pages and pages of plans?

No?

No, probably because I was meeting March. But I had had World War four hundred and fifty got it that morning. I was so angered, I can't even tell you. And I see Marge, and you know, of course I feel better because she's March right, and Marge's we're talking and she she knows me real well by then, and she

And then what happened.

We walked across the Oh that was freaking wild, So you know, one of those once in a lifetime events. So it was I remember it was raining out and she had some sort of kerchieff or whatever you call it, baby joke. Yeah, she put this anyway, she put over both our heads, which I was like, I'm usually a guy who I can stand in the middle of the pouring rain and I don't know, I don't care. And she puts over our heads and we're walking and she has her normal six or ten inch high heels on it,

I just got like I actually just got chills. It's like the most beautiful, perfect love story, except that you were both man.

But like it was it, but that's it.

But there is that like you can't it really didn't matter that way. Yes, I know, you can't take away that that was what was going on. No, it was, and I knew, like and I felt it too. I was like, I'm in trouble, Like what is going on here? This is crazy?

Yeah, this is terrible, Like I don't know what to do here.

Yeah, and then you know, and it wasn't like, oh my god, I have to have sex with this girl. Immediately. It was like instant attraction. It was not sex.

That's that's I love that because I was I was about to actually say to you, like, you know, I think a lot of people feel the spark they're married, they connect, there's something that happened different than this. I feel like this was like we're in trouble.

Yeah right, it was. Yeah, it wasn't a sexual thing. I mean, obviously I wanted to have sex with you, but I'm just saying it wasn't that it was like I'm crazy for this guy and now, you know, people step out on their marriage, they want to have sex with someone, it happens, they could recover from that and everything else. This was something that I couldn't recover from, right, I guess this was something that went too far.

Oh you wanted to recover?

No, no, no, But you know what I was saying, because at that point it would have been easier probably to recover, but there was no recovering.

There was no recovery. I get it, you know, and and I knew that, and you know, months went on, and you know, we got together.

You guys at the beginning of it, were you saying to each other, this has to happen, like we can't. Was it really quickly? But that you were like, we got to leave and we got to start over? Or does that take some.

Time away right away? Because we're both hesitant because both of us were really somewhat family orientated.

Yeah, they were both like into your family, and I was like, what am I gonna do? My older kids were out my you know, my son was still home, and you know, I was like, you know, my family dinners on Sunday night, and I was like, but I was like, I can't let my son see me unhappily married. That's not healthy for him. And I can't be with that, Joe, and this is no way and I can't live like this. And you know, and I think you obviously felt the same way.

Sure before you told your spouse's or had that discussion which I want to talk about, But did you confide in friends with anyone? And how did your friends react? Well, my one friend totally did something horrible. My best friend in the world, who I wrote about in my book, the betrayal was unbair.

What did you do? This is terrible, you know, because it was going to unravel her life. This is terrible. You don't know this guy, you know, just horrible. So I was like, listen, this is all My My other friends understood because they knew I was in a you know, my marriage wasn't perfect and the rest of my life life was and they were like, it's a big decision, and they understood. My other friend was horrible, horrible.

Well, what can we tell, Like, just listeners, because I have to tell you when Jeff and I separated and we had come from infidelity and all of it. But like my friends were always supportive. Well, thank god, let's do what it's going to make.

You should not be judgmental because no one your life, no one knows what's going to happen.

And I think.

To turn on your best friends. I mean, this is someone who I they need you to her wedding and I needed her the most, and to turn on me she and I just want to say this. I was so heartbroken. Her husband had said to me, you're driving. I'm watching you drive a runaway train. You're going to wind up alone. You're going to have nobody. You're going to be alone with your mother and your son on

I think one of the reasons why we work is because he looks at me like Joe looks at you like, yes, well I don't know what the guy stepped into here, but but but it is.

But it is entertaining. Yes, he's the man behind the woman. He loves you and no matter you know, yes, you know. Yeah, as much as Jan found me, he could not tolerate. Yeah, I mean he was gonna blow his brains out.

I get that. Made that's so interesting.

So it just so my one friend, really one of my bad really turned on me, right Jeff, that's really I have to say, Like no, and got involved with my children. That's sick and caused a lot of family tumult. Well, you know something, I will.

Say that when Jeff and I got back together, I did have a couple of friends. They didn't say it, they said it to be supportive, but they said, Jen, you have you really given yourself a chance, like you're getting back together already just because it didn't work out with this boyfriend. How do you know that there's not so? But I knew, Like that's why maybe you just have to trust yourself, like you want to talk to your

Exactly and why you were leaving your boyfriend to go be with Jeff, right, which I thought.

Was But also but like there's whatever your friends are at the end of the day, and I think it's hard, but especially in a scenario like this when you're on your second time around or there's infidel, like you have to trust yourself no matter and ditch any friends.

And this was you know, and I get a lot of flack people like you cheated, get you that's the way. No, it wasn't about that. It was about I knew I didn't want a life of being unfaithful or being something like that, or being unhappy. I want to be with someone who was a partner who you know, was just as crazy for me as I was for them, who accepted me for you know, my flaws and all and

Yeah.

Yeah, And I wasn't you know, I wasn't on his page either. You know, I didn't agree with a lot of things he did, you know, as much as he agree with me. Sof and Joe and I were a team.

I love that, well, Joe. I mean, guys won't always have the friendships that that we do. But do you have friends supporting you? How is that I have?

I have a lot of acquaintances, and I have maybe on a handful of really true friends, and they stood by you, and they're true friends, Like, no matter what I would want to do, they would want it for you. Bill go and they backed me. And some of them told me I was, you know, like I was an idiot, But you know, whatever you want to do, that's what we're going to do.

Okay. One friend told him he's an idiot in front ofhip. Even funnier, No, he goes like this, He's like Joe, that girl's high maintenance written all over her. But is that like and he goes, he goes, is that what you want, He goes, she is more than high maintenance.

To I was, she was livid, I was living.

I go that that's the first thing he says about me.

We talked to him anymore?

Yeah, I do, okay, of course.

Actually, you know, I don't think it's a big deal, you know what I mean? Because I mean, you're they're real friends that they are looking out for you. But like the friend that you describe Margaret is not a friend.

Is that like that's supposed to mean?

Right, Well, it means, it means it. It accurately describes you.

I don't even think it's an insult. It is, but it's just like, so what is that accurate? Yes, that's supposed to be a turn off, right, high maintenance? Clearly not. I want somebody who's maintained.

Well, that's not exactly what it means.

What does that mean? Expensive? Yeah?

And I knew that that's what we were getting.

Yes, right, Yeah, I am expensive, and I work a lot and never really very well, I just had a business and everything else.

Yes, well guess what, I was expensive and I didn't work a lot or do everyone less. Thank you, Yes, exactly, thank you. And there's nothing wrong with well, okay, like the economy, listen, this is a hard one. We're going to just talk about it. It's okay quickly because I've had a hard time answering these questions. And I wasn't divorced, I was just separated. But the kids, how did you tell the kids?

Uh?

That was the worst day.

I know, I remember my own day when we told them that we were separating. But anything that you want to tell us about, you know, for people that are either going into part two or dealing with this kid's thing, any advice or any you.

Yours wasn't as rough for something off the hook so easy.

Really, it was very difficult. How old your kids were a little older My kids were probably she's eighteen and twenty hard age.

No, and the okay, that's very hard, but they were.

Both starting their their lives doing things. My son.

You were closer with your kids, I feel they than your ex wife was.

Did you guys tell the kids about each other or just that you were going to get separated or divorced?

My kids knew. My kids knew that, not that I was with Margaret that I but like I was friends with Margaret. They knew that. And then at some point, what are you making face work?

So they moved right into a beach house. But that's a whole the story.

Yeah, they're not.

They figured it out. They figured it out, yes, yes and no.

And then at some point my ex wife did burst into the room where the kids were with me, and she's screaming about life in general. And the kids are looking at her, looking at me, and you know, they're basically looking at me for it, like what's up with her? Right?

You know?

Because she was so off the.

Charts, they weren't They knew they weren't happy.

Oh yeah, my kids knew we weren't happy. And to be honest with you, they you know, my wife wasn't happy with the three of us.

So right, okay, uh, I mean yeah, okay, your kid's situation wasn't is I think his situation they were living.

I mean, you were living separate lives even before I got in the picture.

Oh by far?

Okay.

So it wasn't a shock to the kids.

Mine was a disaster. Okay. It was heartbreaking. Its separated my family, you know what it was my I had a beautiful family life, even though they knew I PHO j in. So mine was the worst day of my life. I could start crying now just thinking about it. Yeah, it was horrible. My older kids were older. My son was only fifteen. He was going away to a summer.

And they had no idea.

They knew things weren't good, but they really were like they couldn't believe it. They were just so devastated. And they were I mean, I'm saying like late twenties, early thirties. They were my step kids, and they had to freak out. And my son was like fifteen, very very upset, very upset. So Joe and I went, I said, you know, we're separating, We're probably getting divorced. I went to live with Joe for that summer Manilocan in a beach house.

Jan didn't handle it either.

When he handled it terribly, He handled it absolutely terribly, and really, you know, didn't want to take any responsibility on his part. It wasn't about Joe, you know, Joe was Eventually we were going to get divorced anyway. I think Joe was like a catalyst, Yep, I think it. He moved along quicker and we were meant to be

And then, god, I just it's it was the hardest day of my life, the day of separated, so brutal.

It's brutal. I mean, I was sick. Remember I was crying on the beach all the time.

Fourth of July.

I'd always be with my family in the Hamptons, but I was a man, alogan. I was sick. I was throwing Oh god, you know it was. It was a very hard time. But I knew I could not sacrifice my life. If I wasn't good for me, I couldn't be good for the rest of my kids or my family. You know what I mean, Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I mean when we told our kids I was. I couldn't just you couldn't just keep going it just that,

Not many?

The exact number? No, let me tell you. No, he knows the exact number. He writes the number on the bottom of everyone just to give her.

Well, she doesn't get it. It goes to the state.

But you know what, I live for that level of petty. Yeah, Joe's pettier. Yeah? Come on now, all right, Joe, Joe, who's pettier? You were me? Oh?

I can hold a grudge till the end of freaking time and hate you like that.

Okay, So all you listeners who are Housewives fans, that is not at all what you would think. He Joe, Ben, you come off as your sugar on the show he is. He's very sweet, but he can be crossy.

You know, he's like you know, he's been paying alimony a long time.

At this point, listen, you are divorced, and it sounds like, well, well, if Margaret is friends with your ex, you have to be at least friendly with her now No, oh oh, well I was hopeful.

No, not really. I don't. I rarely text anything with her, okay, And I don't get involved with stuff unless my kids call me and say, oh my god, this is happening. And my daughter recently called me up and said I had to go do something about it.

I had a beautiful relationship with my excess. I know he did know, and he passed away, but you know, and he took it much worse with the divorce because Joe's wife actually wanted the divorce.

She wanted a divorce. Wow.

Would you guys have any advice to give in terms of there's really nothing. I don't know if there is any advice that you can give for people telling their kids. I don't know if I would have any.

I think you have to be don't give any dirty details. I don't think anybody should discuss infidelities. I don't think anybody needs to know that. You don't have to be brutally honest, but I think just enough that we love you know, we love each other. It's just not working out. Has nothing to do with you.

You know, you say that to the CADG Yes, I wish, I wish I had a parent who had I went through as a kid a lot of doors. My parents were both divorced multiple times. But I remember one of them and a stepfather saying to me and to my sister, she's cheating.

No, it is right.

I would just say, like, you know, when Jeff and I separated, no blaming and there was no blaming. There was only propping each other up. I mean that's what I would suggest.

That like what it is, and I think that's don't you think that's the most important thing that that doesn't happen.

No, it does not. I heard through the grapevine that all these accusations on my part, which were all false sight I was. I heard through a grapevine that I had cheated from the day we were married.

You never you're like a goodye two shoe who said that? Did your kids think that?

No, my kids know me.

Okay, but that's what was spreading that around.

Sure, that's the story I got back.

Wow, See that's what That's what upset me because there's one thing. Listen, I could be a lot of things, but I was very, very devoted to my kids and my my family. That in my entire life, I was devoted to my in laws, everything else. I was also a very doting wife. Granted I did cheat on my hut.

I did.

It's a fact I did.

But so did I by the way, I mean not first.

You know, that doesn't and that doesn't mean that doesn't you know, there's worse things you could do. It doesn't erase, it doesn't erase it. All devotion, there's a tation everything else. So I felt, you know, very upset that, you know, my ex husband, Jan you know, did not handle it really correctly. Yeah, because he kind of, you know, made himself out like he was a very much victim, a victim, and I was like, you got you gotta dial it back,

I relate to everybody did that, even though Jeff had an affair when I I ended up leaving, and everyone was like poor Jeff, which is so interesting, even including my mother.

Yes, exactly, so yeah, which is upsetting, you know, just like you know, my other friends infl But I think the kids, you know, were like they saw their father sad and then they did you know, and no, but I felt bad, listen. I even felt bad for Jan. I think I had some weird guilt for years myself. I was just like, because he would call me, I mean, he didn't know how to use the printer, legit, He'd come to our house and Lexi and I would do the print right. Yeah, but then he met a beautiful

Joe?

My wife's best friend.

What Yeah? And they started dating.

Wait what yeah?

I thought I knew you. What are you talking about? Just making this up?

No?

No, no, Jan's girlfriend when he passed away had been dating Joe's ex wife's best friend for three years.

Wow. And I know they were crazy about each other.

You crazy?

And they met each other on a dating site. And the funny thing is the first time I met her, I was like, what are you doing here?

Oh?

And then you saw her through Jan.

Yeah.

That is the weirdest thing, isn't that the weirdest thing? Well, she knew because she knew of it because they went on a date. And then of course Jam was like, my ex wife she's on Housewives, you know, saying like that, and he and she was like, and he goes, you know, she left me for the you know, he gave this story. You know, she was day in the contract and she goes, is your ex wife married to Joe b Enigno?

And then she said it, shit, how did your ex take that? She at the end of their friendship.

I don't think they liked it. I don't know.

She know she didn't like it. No, she told me she didn't like it. It kind of they weren't as close, they weren't really friends after that.

Really, I mean, it's so funny, like it's just so much there's so much heartache. But to get to where you are now, I mean, I think about that so often, Like with part two, I think about sometimes you guys, tell me what you think. But my grandparents were so

I think that some people make it through and they love each other till the end of the time. On first marriages, you know, like they meet, you hear people they meet in high school and get married. I have a bunch of kids, and life is good and for a lot of other people, and I think the majority of Americans is much better the second time around.

Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, I'm on my second whatever sort of but like, yeah, you know, it's but whatever it is like now, especially as I as I get older, I can't imagine being in an unhappy marriage at our ages.

You know, you just a I don't suffer. Well, that's right, like the white lotus.

Yes, women, Yes, I.

Can't be in comfort. She said that. I dies like I could not be right.

I'm too old to be uncomfortable. I'm too old to be I would have to kill myself if I wasn't rich.

That was a classic line. Yeah, but I also do feel it, and I think sometimes I'm feeling emotional lately because I'm just like looking back on my life and everything we did to get here, and you know, everything I've been through, you know, and I had, you know, I reminisced I had a beautiful life the first time, but I, you know, and that was the time I raised my kids and everything else. But the part two of my life, you know, is about you know, my kids are up and out.

It's about you.

It's about me and my husband and you know, and my dog, especially dog.

God. Well let's put them in the correct order. It's about you, your dog, Lexi and joke. Yeah, yeah, yes, no, And it's.

Just like and and mother and before me.

Oh sorry about that. No, but I'm just saying we we do have a beautiful life together.

And a girl throw her into girl.

Yeah, I have to make sure I give us very checked.

I gave her number, by the way, but okay, go on. So yeah, no, I totally get so.

I think a lot of times I do get emotional. Sometimes I'm sitting on the sofa watch that I start crying because I'm just like, oh my god. I do feel like it is the second chapter. But I feel like we're in like the last leg.

Yeah we are. I mean I'm putting myself in there. We are, right, and I have a lot of gratitude now I do too, are.

Just like look at you, you just you know, you just got your beaches.

It's just like it's just gratitude just to have being a happy marriage, because so many people are not.

No, exactly like I called you. How many times a day did we talk on the phone?

Quite a few, and best friends.

Yeah, I called Joe constantly. You know, we shower together, and that's not code for sex.

No sort of it, unfortunately, No, no, no, no, no, no, don't we.

Don't have sex. And the show we're just like even though we built two shower heads, he insists on, just like going under my shower head.

It's our shower head.

Yes, I'm like, okay, So having said that, because that's like still honeymoon base, I was gonna ask you, guys, like, now you move into the beach house and you're actually together, was there ever any like we whoa, whoa? What have we done?

Was there ever any ever?

None of that, not once, not a day. I just knew that that's what had it was. This was kind of be meant to be, meant to be.

I was obsessed with him from the beginning.

I love that. I love that.

Yeah, you sending you're obsessed with me from the beginning.

I am obsessed with you.

I'm not.

I'm obsessed he is.

That's actually a fact so tell me now a little bit about your feelings on and this is sort of a making a sharp write or sharp lit. But let's talk prenups for a moment, because I just had Dlorus and Paul on and we spoke a little bit about them. I spoke a little bit about my idea. I feel like now, I think prenups are fabulous invention. But everyone feels differently about them. How do you guys feel about them?

I don't see a need for it.

No, I see a need for prenups with certain people. I think people need a prenup.

I don't need a prenup.

Joe and I didn't do a prenup, but I do agree with pren ups.

We did.

Listen, we're very specific with our estate planning though. Yeah, I think the estate planning is super super important, right.

Which is when you say state planning, you're saying like that right when you croak and but but and that you have you know that no matter what, this is what you want.

We're very big. The way we did it is we're very big with separating the life insurance is who's getting what. We did that kind of planning.

For our second time because kids, because so many.

We own separate things, Joe own's apartments. This we set everybody up the right way. We planned it that way.

I have so many friends who also they they've lost a parent and then there's a step parent involved, and that just becomes a total night.

Now we we have everything in writing. Who's getting what, what's happening? So all the children, No, one's fighting over everything.

The dog gets everything.

Yeah, exactly right, everything goes to everything. No, so we you know, we arranged things that way. Yeah, yeah, tell, But I do believe in a prenup. I mean, obviously certain people should have gotten you know, but we got together. I mean I was super you know, though I've had taken some hits. I mean I had a very big thing when we got to we're both equally as successful when we got together. You own a lot of real estate. I had a big business, you know.

Yeah, but we were like, well, if I was, if I had to do it again, if I was doing it again, there would be pre nups.

If there was.

I'm not say because I'm such a millionaire even but I just think things get so messy, and they do.

They do, And I agree with I definitely agree with the prenup, but we did more post nuppy kind of a most.

Right, we didn't do any pre and and then we just figured on, well, the kids got to be taken care of.

Yeah, and we made sure of that and we have everything in writing for the kids.

Yeah.

I love that.

So just to touch on this very briefly, but when jam passed away, which is what two.

Two years ago to uh? Was it three years ago? It'll be three years in August, yeah, three years.

Right, And you talked about it a little bit on the show. But how Joe supported you through that? Yes, if you want to just give us just an idea of well.

I mean, Marge was going through extreme grief. It was her.

Did that make you feel anyway?

I felt empathetic towards her grief and how she felt and how her son and I didn't know the step kids, so the other ones felt well one Brett and so you just support how she wants to deal with it. If she had decided to deal with it by not dealing with it, I would have supported that too. But we ended up having shivers, not of funerals. No, what do you say that? We had the shiva?

The non jew at You're Italian.

Yeah, at my house, so and it was fine, just like have everybody over.

And No, you were so supportive.

You know, I had known jan for years and you were friendly with him.

Yeah, I was friendly. We're best buddies. Aren't going out camping together, but right, you know, we we could. We went out to dinner a few times. He was fine and his girlfriend I knew forever, so right, it.

Was just you know, it was shocking because he was the picture of health.

So I think it was I ran five miles a day, I remember that.

Yeah, and he was so healthy. And you know what, Joe was so supportive that, and that just shows what a great, confident, secure man he is an artist, because I mean you were.

You were more worried about that. If you guys did watch the show, Margaret talked a lot about feeling guilty that she was so sad. No, I was devastated.

Now why I was so devastated. I knew Jansen some I'm twenty four years old, right, that's the first thing to watch the children and father children, I mean them, he was like by the time we're divorced, it was like having a crazy uncle, you know. Yeah, he was the witness to my life before I knew Joe, you know what I mean. And it's like I knew him longer than anybody. So poor Joe, you know, had to deal with the hysteria. I mean, we have a picture of Jan hanging in my living room when Jan from

Yeah?

Yeah, yes, no, I've read that. I was at that Shiva and not a happy time and your kids are so devastated.

No so, and to this day, I mean, you know, we are so devastated. That was the one thing we were both, That was the only thing Jane and I agreed on was the kids. We're both obsessed neurotic wrecks. You know, Joe's not a neurotic wreck, right, Jane and I were neurotic.

I mean, maybe that's something to be said for that, because I'm a neurotic wrack and Jeff Essler's not.

Yeah, Jeff, Jeff is actually just like I am.

He is.

I know, that's a good commented someone who.

Oft, yes, they do.

They can't be too neurotic wres.

No, no, because then that would be a disaster.

Yes, And I think that's probably.

But it's just so interesting to note because I know that you were so worried about Joe during that time, and Joe was fine and worried about you.

Yeah, no, he was so good, and I mean, like you know, and that was the one thing. I think he probably felt beat because he couldn't make it better. No one could make that better, you know. But I feel like, you know, I'm very good also, and I and you're good this way, like you know, times grief, we make a lot of jokes, yeah, you know, which which does help you get through. Humor helps you get through things. I mean, yes, I mean when I went to the cemetery and I should not make a joke

So you so you with the head rate right, you're not kidding, huh.

Well, I mean it said besides, it just was the first day before they even got the headstone. They spelt his name wrong, wrong, and they got the date wrong that he died. I was having a freak out. Of course, of course you are. I was like, I would likely say that this is like a Larry David episode. But then we go and it's you know, it's not the proper unveiling, and you know, my son and I go, it's the day died. I'm crying, it's sweating, it's August.

You don't know from that. Let's get real. Margaret doesn't. No, no, there's no I mean, come on, nothing nothing gets done without Margaret.

But I but they're not gonna tell me what the headstune says, and everyone likes stepped out it. It says beloved you know, son, father, brother, life partner. Would you wanted to say husband? It could have said love of my life. It could have said if she wanted that, you know, the girlfriend. It could have said anything like life partner, who approved this nonsense?

I was like, you don't think that was a little bit of transference there, like getting so upset about that when there was actually you're at the funeral of this.

No, it wasn't the funeral. It was it was last year.

Oh it was the unveiling.

It was like it was right before the unvailed. Oh okay, God's like life partner. Yeah, who puts that on a tombstone?

And you made a scene.

It was only myself and my son, Okay, it wasn't really the official une, Okay. I I mean then I started then I was like all right, he all right, he's listening.

Here's the thing that you're still worried about him in death. No, no, no, you wanted to be right.

I wanted it to be right. I said, like, I go, this is unacceptable. I go, this is And everyone did to change any any No, it did not change it. I well well know he is if we go to the cemetery, will be able to find it. No, I've complained to my other children. I was like, who said this is okay? It should be changed to love my life.

This is There's so many times when I'm like, that's so Margaret. This is just so Margaret. It is so marked like it's not even your problem. It was the girlfriend's problem.

And so I just just said, what are you gonna do when I die? Stuffed me?

Yeah, I'm going to put it next to my bear.

Put it next to the bear. That's romantic. Change my appe. I love that were my good hair.

Obviously obviously we'll have Julius do it. So okay, you guys. A couple more things first, because again, whoever is out there listening to a ban of the show knows that Joe was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Yes, last season, thankfully, thankfully, thankfully, it was such early stages that nothing had to be done. But where are we at now, view.

The doctors monitor me. They want to take tests constantly, you know, but nothing's nothing's changed.

Okay, good, thank god.

It has not advanced. It's stage one, you know, they said, because Joe got it, you know, later in life, and they did a genomic test that his is very slow growing and it hasn't changed. So they're just going to keep in mind.

My numbers dropped for some crazy.

The ts A numbers p s as AA, his ts A.

He could still get right through the.

Air on that plane.

He could get right on the plane with his p s A and his ts Okay, okay.

Yeah, the p s A numbers dropped for some crazy.

Which was fabulous news.

But he is, you know, it was still there and but we're monitoring. I mean, it goes every six months.

Okay, all right, So tell me what we've left out you guys, is there anything you want to tell our listeners in terms of things that you suggest advice, follow your heart.

Marge's running for president.

Marge should be. With everything's going on, I could do it one hundred times better.

Job.

There would be no tariffs, see that, see that people out of business. That's a whole other story.

Okay, we're going to go now into what really counts you, guys the most out of all of this, housewise, what do you think of the show? Yes, what do you think about what's happening with the show?

What do I think?

Is?

I think it is ludicrous?

No, Joe, you know what I think.

I think Wait, I think Sorry, Marge, tell me why you think it's ludicrous, because.

Not for anything. I mean, the show was on in like thirty some odd countries. We had the highest ratings everywhere. For the most part, the cast got along and meshed with each other most part well, I said most part well. And the people who didn't Mesh really did not film with us that much. So the show is i'd say, very successful. And I think that the management wherever, whether it was a production company or a brother of themselves, did not give us enough. We didn't get enough episodes.

I think it got a little dark. I think it got a little dark. I understand, I'm jesting. We still had great ratings the dead of the summer, you know that the dead of the summer on a Sunday where I don't feel like watching TV myself. I think our ratings were great, but I do think it is time for a little change up. Listen, we're close, we have close friendships with the other ways on the show. I think certain things turn too dark where people can't be around each other. That's a given.

Well, listen, don't you feel like now I'm watching Atlanta obviously. Yes, last our Sunday night that was talk about dark.

Yes, I think a few things, you know, and I think the social media leaks, social media league terrific. I think things happened. Uh, I'm kind of enjoying my you know break, you know, but it was a big part. You know, it was a you know, you were on a little bit but you can't compare time, but it was a big part of your life, even the short time as a friend of as a bad because it takes over. It does take over, so it is but

And before that, though years that before us, you are still loving it.

I still love it, even though I you know some parts I could you know. I love my crew, I love the production. You know, I love being part of the brother film. But you know, nothing less forever. That's the other thing, nothing less forever. It's a part of my life, it's not my whole life.

Do you want it? I know you're asked this constantly because I'm asked it constantly, and I'm not. I don't haven't been on the show for the time that you have or had the impact. But do you want it to come back? If you do, what do you want to see?

Of course, listen, I never want to see Jersey go away. I think it's just such an iconic show. I'd like to come back in a fun way. I think people want it. But if it I would have liked to go out on more and be high. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, as opposed to the way it did, so I would love that.

Do you feel like because I mean again, like you've been people recognize you that don't recognize me. You've been doing this for way longer. But don't you feel like everyone seems to want it so badly?

Yes, everybody.

Everybody's like everyone else everyone When.

I look at it this way, Also, Atlanta went away for a few years and came back. Yeah, and maybe some new alliteration. I don't think a total reboot would happen, but we'll see what happened. Yeah, you know, and I don't know where I'm going to be a year from now. I don't know where you're going to be a year from now. No one knows what's going to happen a year from now, But you know, we'll have to see what happens. That's kind of the way for you know.

I mean I was on it the past two years, and I want to not like I just missed the show, like forget me on it?

Like what now?

What is going to happen? Where is Margaret?

Where is Like? I think everybody's life is going to change and new things are going to happen to everybody, and I think there'll be new stories.

There's something about Jersey, right, and I'm reading other you are first and foremost, Yes, something about Jersey.

There's authentic.

Friendships and relations people say the family thing, and of course I'll talk about Melissa and Teresa and there is that. But I don't know. I don't know if something's in the water in Jersey. I think that just made the show so addict.

I think people are very authentic, you know. I think it's very authentic relate not a lot of airs maybe put on as much as there are and some of the other shows. I think it's authentic relationships. I mean, I even said with Beverly Hills, and I love Beverly Hills, Tales watching and everything else. You know, I don't know. I think sometimes people don't say things is bluntly. Maybe we're more direct.

Well when you say we, I know you mean you not as blunt as I am.

You say things direct, well direct, you're more direct than them.

Yeah, I think I am too. I mean, listen, it's something you have to get used to. I mean, I don't know if you ever really had that, you never really had to get acclimated.

You you went in with I was in business alone, right and working with men in this, that and the other thing. And you know, you don't get if you don't ask yeah the booth say well.

The producer said to me before I started filming Season thirteen, your job is to say what you think. So things that you would never say now you say them. And that took a little getting used to for me to be able to articulate I think you're a fucking bitch like that. You know that's not a normal thing necessarily to say to somebody who you're friends with their wark rooms with. It's tricky, but you got the hang of it fast. It took me a little more time.

Like I'd like to say, I know you do I like to say in my real life too, I know you. But then I like to move on very quickly because I don't like to hold a grudge. Yes atle grudge holder.

I'm never crossing Djoe b Nigno ever ever ever, And I have.

To put one more thing in. What people don't realize is on the show, they watched all of us talk, mingle, fight, get along, and now they're not filming. But the people who we were friends with on the show, we're still genuinely friends with. And that does not stop people we we are. We might argue and we make up, right, Jeff and I might go to someplace and we we do the same. We watch No, we never fight, but we watched the girls like have a discussion about a don I know, and we still do have it.

I do. I will speak for myself.

So when you're watching Jersey, they're really watching real life. It doesn't change. The only difference is there's a camera or not a camera. But it's exactly the same. Yeah, it's it's interesting.

We go to events together, we do fun things together, our feelings get hurt. Yes, so I think it's just I just recently went listen look just even on White Lotus the female friendships, right, it's very accurate.

Yeah, it is, actually, except I hate all three of those bitches. So I didn't like one of them, did you?

I did, really betwe did like Cary Cohon. I did like Lori.

I liked her the best. Yes, she was certainly the most authentic. I wanted to punch the other one in the face, the pretty one, but they were all pretty. I shouldn't say that. But the one there was like the movie star.

Yeah, I didn't like her.

Noxious woman.

I didn't like her either.

Anyway, you guys, I don't know how long we've been going, I could go on.

I think this was a great thing.

I love you guys so much. I just also want to say to listeners like, I don't know. It doesn't always work out like Margaret and Joe, but I don't know. I think it's such a it's so fabulous to hear a story like yours, to know that, like you went through hell, especially Margaret, as you were saying, like with the kids, and here you are.

And now yes minus at six kids. Well everything was great with five Okay, on not so good. But you know what, I have adults at them all.

Yeah, five, i'd say no, but I mean you're sitting on the couch crying because you're so grateful.

And I think and I am so grateful, and Joe and I are. It's a it's a long time write. I mean even we didn't get married till twenty thirteen, but it's a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah, so listen. I mean there's something to be said for all of that. I love you both so much, love you, thank you for coming here, Thank you, thank you, and thanks to all the listeners.

Yeah there you go.

Okay, thank you both so much for coming on and being so open, and thank you for all the advice that you gave. It was, in my humble opinion, really great advice. So, listeners, are you going through a divorce, are you trying to navigate life after a breakup? Call us, email us, follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and review the podcast please. I do part two at iHeart Podcast, where falling in love is the main objective.