Hey, the folks in this episode strong successful inspiring women criticizing other strong, successful inspiring women. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. And we have to admit, Robes, this is an episode we did not necessarily plan or expect to record. But there's been so much buzz around Blue Origin and that historic all female crew that went up and came back down. But I have been surprised, Robes at how much criticism they've gotten.
I have been surprised as well. We need to fully disclose. We'll be transparent here. We were excited. We watched the launch, We felt the excitement, and I certainly as a woman, felt proud to see six women go up in space. Some of them, of course, were NASA scientists, but others were, you know, just people who we know and love and recognize either through television or know what we listened to on the radio.
Katie Perry, Gail King, we.
Should stay different levels of accomplishment. Yes, you had scientists on there, and astrophysicist, all these kinds of things. But Katie Perry's wildly successful, Gail King wildly successful. Lauren Santez had a successful career and doing her thing So this is a crew that's not just celebrity. These are accomplished women.
Correct, and women who we look up to, women who we turn to when we want to either be entertained or informed or to learn something from.
So yes, I was excited.
I was completely surprised when I saw the remarkable and biting criticism. We expect it on Twitter. And we'll get into that because of course everyone always has a comment, and everyone loves to throw barbs thinking they're in an enclosed basement where no one can know who they are because they're anonymous. But the people, the women who have come forward, who are also celebrities in their own right, who have a pulpit, who have people who listen and
follow them, it's fine to disagree. It's fine to be I even think constructively critical.
That's okay.
Those conversations ken and should happen, and we should welcome them. But when you start getting mean and sarcastic, and start just saying words and using words like disgusting and gluttonous.
I then I feel sad.
It's like I felt uplifted as a woman, and then I just felt so frustrated as a woman, because why do we tear each other down so much. Again, we can disagree, we can have different opinions, but we don't have to be mean spirited.
So I want to take it with you from I guess a few different angles, one being just legit criticism and conversation we can have about the use of this time and money to send these celebrities essentially most of them up in the space. Two who the criticism is coming from. Should that make a difference? And then three the words used during the criticism, And so these are
three different answer. So let's take it from I guess the top with I guess the criticism, talk about the criticism itself of this being wasteful, this being a waste of time, a publicity stump, this is unnecessary, all that's going on in the world. I hate to just say, yeah, egg prices are going, Yes, everybody has all kinds of issues. That's never a perfect time in the world to just do something for fun, it seems on this level, and with all this money involved, is never a right time.
But still, is there any issue you take or certainly understand with somebody else taking with Hey, guys, do we really need to be putting on this big show right now?
Look, everyone has an agenda I think in the world, and I would love for that money to be all put into cancer research so we can find a cure to cancer. Sure, that would be amazing. But at the end of the day, I understand how business and industry works. And also, this is a private business. Blue Origin is a private company. We're not talking about NASA, We're not talking about a government funded agency. We're talking about a
private business. And truthfully, I do believe having space exploration and pushing that and making that more accessible and making that more available could lend to all sorts of other innovations. I don't know what they are. I'm not a scientist.
We should say that's always been the argument with NASA. Everybody says, why are we wasting all this money going to spay? Anybody can always make that argument, that's always there to So this is private.
Business, correct, So I think when it's private business, that's that private business owner's decision to do what he wants to do with his money and with his team.
But I also just want to say I don't know enough.
About what they are learning about space travel, what they are learning about science in these adventures and in these space missions, but I think they're possibly leading us in a direction we may need to eventually go in the world where they're baby steps building blocks.
But do we need that? Do we have to have a justification for it to be okay? Can we not just say they inspired a bunch of people by going up. It made a bunch of kids think about the stars? Is not Can it not just be that? Do I need to know how them going up led to some medical or scientific breakthrough? Can it not just be enough that they inspired others and did something cool period?
To your point, Yes, I think so. I think that's something that Gail pointed out to Gail King. I think Lauren Sanchez says something about all the young girls that they have heard from who now think and dream that they could become astronauts and that they could get into science and those stem types of careers that have not been traditionally female forward.
So I do think there is value just in and of that.
And I just think people can point to you should have spent your money this way, or you should have used those resources to do this. Anybody can always say that, and that's fine, And those are conversations that can and should potentially happen.
So the legit conversation for me, at least in terms of debating critism that we could have was it a little too showy? Look, this was a lot and baby that's okay. But it's been a month plus from the announcement and they were okay. Look, Gail, you said, I didn't see this until you pointed out to me a second ago. But she actually meant that she thinks there is a sexist element to some of the criticism that's come out because a lot was made of and it's
just a part of it. Lit they're women. They're fabulous women. They and they stepped out fabbed up.
Yes, they looked like they were on the set of a movie or they were on the cover of an album, and it.
Looked But you know, I don't mind that.
I think as a woman, you can celebrate your greatness or your accomplishments or what you've achieved in your life, your intellect, and also be hot and fine and you know, do your hair the way you want to do it, and put your makeup on and be all the things that make being female fabulous to a lot of us. So I don't mind having those two things come together. But you also have to prepare yourself for some of I mean, like I mentioned this in Morning Run yesterday.
I believe I got a kick out of and was laughing watching the video of those women Waitless because they all had so much hair going on. It was all floating in the in the in the capsule and it was funny to see. But I think that's okay. Like you can also laugh at yourself. You can say, yeah, wow, that's look at my extensions flying.
Like you know, But is that the thing that's a part of a criticism that they it looked too much like you're focused on the glam and the fun, but you're trying to make an argument that hey, this was a part of science and inspiration. But what it looks like is just a bunch of privileged folks getting a free ride, a joy ride up that's promotional for a guy who's already one of the richest on the planet. I think that is that legitimate.
It's legit.
I think, you know, people are entitled to their opinions, and they certainly put themselves out there in a way that provided that fodder for folks who wanted to take advantage of it. One hundred percent. But I also just think we shouldn't be afraid to be who we are, to celebrate what we do and to enjoy it. I enjoyed the coverage. I enjoyed the build up to it. I thought it made it more fun to watch and witness because we were anticipating it, we were excited about it.
This is what television producers do. We understand that very well, and I think a big part of this world is getting people to care. I think we're in such a frenetic time in this world where we're also distracted. We all have our phones all no one's paying attention to anything and very rarely any kind of live event. So I think it's pretty cool when you can collectively get people to sit down, put their phones down, and watch something happen.
And they were able to do that.
You can criticize how they did it, why they did it, but they did accomplish that.
So there is what So that first part I was talking about with you, there is a legitimate conversation to be had about it, all this and what went into it, and then what do we get out of it? And an inspiration. Let's just all have a conversation about this and that's fine. You can disagree with it and just respectfully have that conversation. Now, the next leg of this goes into the actual criticism that's come from some notable names,
in particular Emily Raki. I'm saying, right, model activist author. I think everybody, if you don't know her name, you certainly know her face. Now, she had a criticism her body if you want, but she had a criticism. First of all, she is the one that's being quoted most out there. Tell folks initially, I guess we should start with that, because she has some very strong works.
Okay, So, and this is why she is because she didn't just say one thing. She said a lot. And it started with that space mission thing morning. It's that space miss sorry, that space mission this morning, that end time shit like this is beyond parody, saying that you care about mother Earth and it's about mother Earth, that it's going up in a spaceship that is built and paid for by a company that's single handedly destroying the planet.
Get the state of the world and think about how many resources went into putting these women into space and for what for what what was the marketing there? And then to try and make it like I'm disgusted, literally, I'm disgusting.
Okay, if she would have stopped before the I'm disgusted, would it have come off the same way, because she did seem like she was kind of going out to Jeff Bezos.
It was, but then she called it a parody.
And then yes, when she said disgusting or that she was disgusted, that was obviously taking it to a whole other level and it got mean, and it it just it it to me, took away any point she was making because now it just feels it just feels like her egos involved. Her ego got triggered because she didn't like what she saw, and so then she feels the need or at least the ability to lash out and to whom andto what. And I would ask her, what's your point? Like, you can still make your point without
having to attack. You can still make your point. And I always feel like this, if you have an issue with something or someone, ask questions instead of pointing the finger, and then you can come up with a reasonable deduction of what you think. And you have a right to your opinion, But ask questions first, perhaps before you start pointing the finger and blaming and shaming, and.
Honestly, she has she's been outspoken on several issues, and she has absolutely the right to her opinion. But this is what really got And I'm sure Gail and crew.
Are very much awaretic, so they have responded.
To specifically to her again not specific okay, I'm but they're surely aware of someone who has this kind of platform and following talking about them in such a way, she used words like this line. Privilege is not an accomplishment, Exploitation is not an accomplishment. She said. We need to be able to discern what real progress looks like, and what happened yesterday was nothing like that. Again, a right to an opinion, but it it doesn't seem like we're
having a conversation. A conversation was started with the trip, perhaps, but now it's just the headlines and these things happen all the time, and we've been in the midst of this. Why where you see the headlines soone's on claps back, or someone's on respond someone's going backlash and hits back, instead of us having a conversation about what actually took place, where talking about women attacking each other.
I know, and that's really tough because it isn't as you mentioned just Emily Radakowski, I mean she had probably would not probably definitely these strongest language and went after the mission Jeff Bezos himself and the women just basically eviscerating them all. But Amy Schumer also went on and put a video up and mocked getting a call about getting an opportunity to go up to space, and was just really sarcastic and dead pan, and just.
Her point was that the trip was pointless.
Her point was that the trip was pointless. That you know, we saw the women bring things up that were meaningful. She made it seem like it was all meaningless. So she was in the same vein. We also heard Olivia Wilde not heard she put up a post saying, basically, this is just a billion dollars spent for a meme and took the took the image of Katie Perry kissing the ground and just made fun of her on that.
And then even Olivia Munn a few weeks before the mission began, actually was quoted or she was speaking to Hoda and Friends on the Today Show and she was questioning, oh, sorry, Hoda, I met Jenna and Friends Hoda's gone. It's Jenna and friends. Miss Oh my gosh, Jenna and friends. But she said, I know this is probably not the cool thing to say, but there are so many more important things to be doing in this world, basically than going up to space.
She was I think she was maybe the first one to say something critical, but then you know, she was actually pretty soft and not that mean spirited about it. She was just questioning the importance of it or the reason why.
What she did call it glutness.
She did call it gltness.
Talk about being on the cover of L magazine, Like, what's the point? Why are you doing all this? That's a legitimate Let's have a conversation about it again. It was a very very strong words. Does it matter at all? This is the other part of the conversation or other thing I want to ask you about. Does it matter or should it matter who the criticism is coming from. I hate to look at the critic now and say, well, oh, you just do this, or you just do that, or
you don't have any place to say. It's not that. I mean, these folks have a platform and they are legit and accomplished and impressive in their own way. But some are wanting to look at the criticizer and say, well, actually you don't. You don't have any leg to stand on it.
You shouldn't be the one pointing the finger, right. So the problem is then we all pileon. So if you start criticizing the people who are criticizing them, we're all we're all dragged down into the mud. So that isn't what we're trying to do here. It's just to make the point that it's I'm disappointed as a woman to see other women reacting to each other this way. Again, we can all disagree, we can all question whether or not this was a good use of resources, but a good use.
Of someone's private money.
I don't know if I have a right to tell anyone else how to spend their money or not, So I just I would just ask that we all remember to be kind, that we can have comments, that we can have opinions, that we can further a conversation. I think it's an opportunity to have some of these conversations.
But once you start making someone feel like they've done something wrong, or that you've shamed them for wasting resources or for wasting money, suddenly, then all of those people now feel defensive and then they lash back and it.
Just gets ugly. And that's not the point.
The point is I hope that everybody wants a better way forward, a better way to communicate. It's just sad when you see it all unravel this way so publicly, and it just reinforces that cat fighting. Women can't get along, women can't be happy for one another. Women can't And I will say, you saw those six women who come from very different walks of life, represented from all different colors and backgrounds together excite? Did? You can say what you want. But I thought the squealing was. I thought
it was joyful. I thought it was It made me smile. I was excited that they were excited, and I imagined how scary and crazy that must have felt to go up and do something like that, and to test your own fears and to push past them. I thought there were a lot of lessons that could be learned, that could be good and sweet takeaways. And yes, we can. I just I just feel like sometimes I gets lost and I hate seeing women just not support one another.
You can still question, you can still ask, you can still disagree, But do we have to tear each other down.
No, we're not suggesting at all that should be just blanket support or there should be no criticism. And look, we play a role, and we have been many years and been questioned in coverage of things we do, or or why are you all going there and doing this fun thing? When this, you know what, very sweetheart, is a very good point. When Stray went to you and I do the special report and that same day overnight you remember what there was a tragedy with tornadoes in Kentucky,
was it not? Yes, And there was a huge debate within the ABC GMA at the time about what we should do and how we should cover a tragedy. I mean, I believe like a hundred people might have been killed on the same day that we are seeing straighthand go to space. And this was like back to back special reports almost we were doing.
I remember I was there in West Texas and I was in my vehicle on the phone on a conference call with you and a couple of our executives discussing the top of the special report because yes, we're breaking in a special report, Michael Strahan goes to space, and yet we have a massive national tragedy where dozens if not.
I think you're right.
It was a very high death toll, and these tornadoes had ravaged the area overnight, and we had to balance the special report with the breaking news, which you handled off the top and then pivoted to space.
We had to try to do both. It is a.
Sometimes these types of stories are a fine needle to thread because you're trying to make sure we are of service but also highlighting one of our colleagues and friends what.
We did there. And I know you've gone through this plenty of times your career as well, where a network will make an attempt to justify what it's doing by saying, well, this is for science, Well this is for where we're doing this really because we're going to give this environmental impact or we're trying to highlight climate change, but really it's kind of just a fun exercise. I remember what we did that day was embrace it. We embraced folks.
We understand there's a tragedy going on right now and we're going to be covering it, but also there's something else going on today that is going to be inspirational. It's scary, but we kind of put in context. We understand this isn't the most important thing going on in the world, but we're also going to acknowledge that it
is still something that's significant that's happening. We embrace. I remember us just acknowledging, Yeah, this isn't the biggest deal right now in the world, but we're going to show it to you. For this reason, I think maybe some of the criticism is now coming from there's the content,
it's not putting in proper context. You're going up and it's glamorous thing and celebrity driven, and you're trying to tell me this is for stem like it's almost some of the criticisms like don't treat me like I'm stupid.
Right, Maybe there needed to be better acknowledgment, better perspective as you just put it, and that way people wouldn't feel so like, don't serve me, you know, dessert and tell me it's vegetables. And I think that maybe rubbed people the wrong way. And then some folks just got so upset about it that they ranted, literally ranted on
social media. And we talked about the prominent women who put their faces in their names to their displeasure, But you were looking on Twitter on X, I guess is what it's called now.
And it was brutal, even worse.
It's awful.
You want to talk about some of it, because Gail King did say she was very upset. She said this was a very sexist I mean, look she saw, of course, she saw some of the criticism, and.
She labeled it sexist.
She took issue with the fact that they called it a girl's trip. We called it a trip here on the podcast on Morning Run, and a lot of folks referred to it as a trip. She said, you would never refer to male astronauts as taking a trip to space. However, TJ, you did, you did find that that did happen.
Of course, has happened with straight had everybody when Schattner went, everybody called it taking a ride, taking a trip, a joy ride, a thrill ride.
It's a ride.
It's a trip. It's eleven minutes in space. It's not a mission to Mars or a mission to the moon. You know, it's it is a trip to space. It is a ride, right, she said, ride. She was upset with that word.
Yes, what did we did? And again and I understand, but is do you feel a sexist tinge of the criticism.
Well, when you started reading what was on X, then yes, and and look, and I get it. Like you, you know, you do your you do your hair, you do your ma. If you're all glammed up, you got to expect a little bit of that. I mean, I think as women, we kind of brace ourselves for that. We understand. I don't think any woman should apologize for wanting to look her best to be.
On a very highly televised and publicized event.
I would want to have my hair and makeup done too, so I would never criticize a woman for that.
You know, how would your hair have been for this trip?
Yeah, I'm a ponytail girl, but but they but they're not. And that's fine.
And it looked hilarious and glamorous and fun and I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it.
It looked great. It did in the video of them waitless and the hair is everywhere. Some of these are tough to watch.
You.
I am literally have X up right now. The search I did was blue Origin and just click latest and I'm just going from the top here. Imagine getting the chance to be in space for six minutes and spending the whole time looking into a camera. That was criticism of them, not yep, having the enjoying I guess the experience being more than a publicity stunt. Correct. Another one.
This is a female astronaut which they showed a picture of Sally Ride, physics degree from Stanford, several years of training. These women going up in Blue Origin are celebrities going for a ten minute ride in low orbit. They are not astronauts or a crew. Calling them that is an insult to all that kind of stuff is out there.
You aren't reading the bad stuff.
There was some talk about you botox and Barren Wombs. I mean, people really went and took some low blows.
If you feel more comfortable if I read some of them.
But like that, I think people need to understand how mean it's gotten to.
Your The one you were talking about it says, and I'm quoting folks, behold the gauntlet of Baron Wombs and Botox. And that post is up with a picture or the video of the women walking onto the capsule. That's tough.
Was there something with the about the ringing of the bell.
Ring of the bell the unsung hero of the Blue Origin female crew and somebody has a like a body suit a you call spendex kind of thing.
Was it called, yeah, just to suck everybody, to suck everything in?
Yeah, that kind of a yeah.
So and those are the low.
Blows that I think a lot of these women are responding to. And you know, I I I don't know if I would feel like I needed to clap back. You know. It's one of those things where sometimes it's better to say nothing.
Your silence speaks volumes. It can be deafening.
But I do, I actually do really like what Lauren Sanchez says. She said, I would love to have the critics come to Blue Origin and see the thousands of employees that don't just work here, but they put their heart and soul into this vehicle. They love their work and they love the mission, and this is a big
deal for them. And I just thought that was a good point to make that there are scientists and employees and teams working feverishly around the clock to make these missions successful and to build an industry in a business for private space travel, and that is a legitimate I mean, I just I understand people who would like those resources diverted elsewhere, but it's not their money.
To your point, take take the women out of this equation. It is remarkable what they're able to do with Blue Origin. They are able to send people up into space who have no training, no experience, and get them back safely without a pilot. That's what the science here is remarkable.
And what could that lead to we don't know.
And so that's the thing I think, anytime you're innovating and you're doing something new, we don't know where that could lead. We don't know, And I'm not justifying it, but I understand. I mean, I just would never want to be someone to be against innovation. And obviously we have to do it in understanding of how it works with our the balance of the Earth and all of those things. But I just feel like we're so quick to point the finger and to shame people.
Here's another one for you, But they're passengers, not crew. It's a flight, not a mission. They have zero controls over the ship. Just sit there, then float for a few minutes, then return. It's publicity at best, that kind of idea. Look, bottom line, can't both sides be right yep and be a little wrong? Yes, right right? You're legit in your criticism. Did you have to use that
language to talk about them. Yes, you're legit in going up and taking this trip, but maybe it did go a step too far in some of the promotion and some of the glamour and some of the there's legit. Everybody could be right and everybody can be wrong at the same time. The only thing wrong is just how we engage and talk to each other sometimes about these things. And I had no criticism of anybody to see women, To sit back and see women this accomplish going after
each other that strongly, I didn't. That was tough.
Yeah, it took away all the excitement and pride I felt in watching those women do what they did, because look that I don't know that I have it in me to go up to space. I don't think I have that kind of courage to risk.
That to do that.
So I was absolutely in awe of that. And that teaches you a lot about who you are and what you're made of. And I'm sure those women will take their experience and I hope they will do good with it.
And the Wendy's thing, what was that about? Why did Wendy's criticize Katy Perry. There were some posts that, oh, yeah, I'm looking at your face now, weren't up on this. There was a tweet that someone put out, let's say Katy Perry has returned. Wendy's from their official Twitter handle responded, can we send her back? Yeah?
What?
And I don't know what the beef is. Apparently Wendy's does a bit of trolling in their social media, but I don't know what their beef is with her. Necessarily, I didn't get.
It, okay, so it looks like so okay from what I understand Kesha, Oh, it actually is Kesha with the Wendy's cup she piled on after.
After the fact. Yes, but Kesha's at beef with Katy Perry for years. That goes back to a producer they worked with that Kesha accused of sexual assaut blah blah.
That's right, So you're right.
Wendy's replied to a post suggesting to center back to space, and then later in the day, Kesha supported the recommendation by posting a photo of herself smirking while sipping from a Wendy's cup. So you can add Kesha to the list of women who went after some of the astronauts, but hers was personal.
But I don't understand why Wendy's got involved and chimed in and tell him send Katy Perry about. I didn't get that.
That's wild.
So again this has gone now and turned into something else for whatever reason. Is it worth talking about? Sure, always have a conversation about something that was that prominent with women. This this prominent. Sure, let's talk about space travel. Let's talk about the safety, let's talk about stem let's talk about these scientists. Let's talk about the criticism. Let's talk about it. Oh but good lord, gluttonous.
Disgusting, send her back to space.
That's just and it's not just fun. It's not good natured. Some of it seems a little much like the only joke, you know what in our morning run, the only joke I was going to crack, And I never ended up cracking it because I didn't want to. That was gonna be a problem. But I'll go ahead and let it out here. I'll say, Wow, the length women will go to to get away from men on Earth. That was the only joke I had.
That's a sweet one. That's a funny one. That's a self deprecating.
One, lighthearted stuff. This stuff is mean, man. Some of this is just you know what.
We had twelve year olds to being with us watching and it was fun to see her watching. I would hate for her to see the aftermath and how women are treating one another. And I just I hope, God, I don't know, because once you put it out there, that's the thing. I tell my daughters this all the time. Once you put it out there on social media, it never goes away. This isn't something that you thought, this isn't something you whispered to your friend, and any type
of that sort of mean spirited gossiper is toxic. But when you put it in writing or you have a platform and you put it out there for the world, man, I just I wish everybody could listen to their own words and remember that what you put out there comes back, and just to please try to remember. You can question, you can disagree, but try to put more kindness and try to put less hate out in the world.
Again, not again, not taking it by Oh wait, anybody's right to criticize. It's not at all what we're suggesting. It's just something that again, yes, we as well got caught up in like a lot of people did, and we were inspired. We were excited, we were on edge, we were even nervous for we know.
Gail, and we went through it with straight hand. So it kind of felt personal to us.
I was there on the launch site, you were there manning the special report from mab S News.
We were immersed in it.
Oh yeah, we talked to him this week. I mean talked him that day. We were going back and forth
because we couldn't help. But in watching that, think about him and think about how we felt, and think about what that moment was and it straight And I'm not betraying our confidence on our trust here, but well, the first the first thing he said when we reached out when launch was happening that morning was remembering all the reaction he got to our reaction on air and being scared and being nervous, like it came through just how much we love that guy. It was the first thing
he said to us this week. So it is it. Remember this is space travel. These women had something on the line.
They had their lives on the line. This wasn't without a doubt.
They had their lives on their line and they knew that and they and they went back and they thought about their training. That's what Gail said at least, but yeah, I give them a little bit of a break. That's what I would say. Give people a break. Sometimes we all want to give ourselves a break. You give your neighbor a break.
That's something one of my favorite things. We always judge other people by their worst actions, but judge ourselves by our best intentions. If you just give somebody just a little grace that these are maybe good people who did this thing that was exciting and inspirational and important to them. It's just a little grace. You can criticize it, just a little grace in a moment like this. So congratulations certainly to them for getting up there. Glad they're back.
What's going to happen next, don't know, but man, but yes, we had no intention of recording this. We actually as folks. If you've been following us this week on Morning Run, you know we're on spring break, Sabine her spring break. So we got out of town. We are sitting pool side and ocean side as we talk here. But we our work has continued. We've been doing the Morning Run and we've had to do it even earlier. And when we get done, we usually t lad out and take
a nap. You were so fired up about this story that you were on the couch looking for a movie and we were just going to go to sleep again as it Babe, Let's go, yeah, go record one. Yeah.
And I think it's an important conversation to have about the conversation that is taking place. And hopefully, man, we can all just be the gentler, kinder versions of ourselves if we just sit and think about how ugly this is and how I know that we can individually each say we're not going to participate.
So with that, thank you.
All for listening to this edition of Amy and TJ. You can listen to us every morning Monday through Friday by six thirty am Eastern Time for all the day's headlines to get you started, and while you're getting where you need to go, we'll give you all the information you need to know.
Thanks for listening. I'm Ami Robock and I'm TJ.
Holmes. What is that little animal over there?
That it's the large rodent?
Yes, it is, actually I just saw it going through the bushes and now crossing over by the pool. It's it's got a weird name that I can't remember, like in a goody or something.
Okay, we're sorry, folks, we're gonna get inside. We're dealing with some local wildlife doctor Elson