This cocktail hour, we're going to talk about just getting started, something like that. Does that make sense? It does, but I forgot one thing. What's that? I don't have a drink. You don't drink? I got a big enough one for two. Huzzah. What are you having? Ramen Coke. Whoa. Yeah. All right, we're starting off strong. Well, you held up your whiskey and I was like, I think he might have beat me. But then I remembered that I might have poured a little long. Dihydrogen monoxide, I think. Right,
okay. Well, nobody will know what's in that, so just, you know, tip it up. We'll pretend like it's tequila. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Intact Again podcast cocktail hour. I'm Open Roads, the editor of this here podcast, and. And I'm Dick Iver, the host of the Intact Again podcast. And I'm Turkish Restorer. I'm responsible for the promotion of the podcast. Awesome. We're here tonight to talk about how to get started in restoration. So we're gonna go all
the way back to the beginning. For those of you guys who haven't pulled the trigger and decided to start restoration, this podcast is for. So, Dick Iver, how did you get started? I got started because. Well, at the time, I didn't know I was. I was bi. There were clues I should have known. But I went on to Wikipedia and I used to read Wikipedia articles a lot, and I. I figured, I want to date women, so I should know,
literally know how their anatomy works. So I. I was reading through how female anatomy works, and then I decided, well, out of scientific fairness, I should read how. How male anatomy works. And then I discover, wait, I'm missing pieces. So then I was thinking, well, if I'm missing this. And then it kind of rattled around in my brain for a few days and I went, I wonder if you can get it back? And I just typed in get foreskin back or foreskin restoration, or I forget
exactly what I typed in. And the first thing that comes up was Ron Lowe's website for the TLC Tugger. And I ordered one not too long after that. And I've been restoring since September 2, 2011, with a two year gap. But we don't have to get into all those details because that came much later. We're talking about the beginning. Turkish restore. How did you discover restoration? Well, I did discover
it via the Internet. It started with me comparing myself with other men, and I was curious about whether that is even a real thing. And I was very disheartened. By a friend that I asked for their opinions. And then I started, didn't even give it a shot. But then in like a year or two later, I was very invested and I was like, I had literally nothing to lose. So I started with manual methods. How did you start it? Oh my gosh, I go, I go all the way back to Jim Bigelow.
I landed a copy of the Joy of Uncircumcising. And I was a photojournalism student at Texas Tech University. So I had lots of film canisters around and so I started trying to figure out how to do the film canister method. And man, I was definitely at a CI0. I did not have any slack at all. And we did not have devices that early. This would have been 1990, but after reading Jim Bigelow's book, I had the concept of I needed to stretch skin.
And so I would even get a pair of pliers. And I know everybody just cringed. Like pliers and penises are not supposed to go together. But hear me out. I used the handle, you know, the rubberized handle of the pliers. And what I would do is I would put the handle on either side of the glands. I would roll as much skin up as I could and then hold it in place with one hand. And then I would kind of pull the pliers apart and, and get some strength
and I would rotate around the glands that way. And so it was really manual methods that I didn't really understand that at the time, but that's what it was. That's what it was. But then in 90, the Gulf War happened and I joined the military. And so I had to take a, a 10 year break. But after I got out of the military, I started. I had never forgotten Jim Bigelow's book. And I knew that I wanted a foreskin. And of course in the military, I was surrounded by naked men.
All the time. Well, I shouldn't say all the time, but a lot. And, and what I noticed was that about 50, 50, like you were cut or uncut. And so in the military we had lots of conversations, pretty frank conversations about our parts and pieces because, you know, we, we got no shame left in the army. Everybody's seen you. And these guys would start talking about, like how their sex life was different than mine.
And man, I got some fear of missing out or whatever it's called, where I was really jealous and I wanted, I wanted what they had. And so when I got out of the military, I had to get a device. I Got the, the dtr and I started tugging fairly regularly, but not, you know, looking back, I wished I'd been more regular. But, yeah, that's how it started for me. And here I am at a CI7 in 2025. So lucky. Well, I, you know, it is lucky. I, I, I'm not going to lie. I am so grateful to have what I have.
You know, I'm sitting here now and I'm wearing boxers, but if I look down and, you know, I definitely can tell that I'm fully covered right now when I sit down, I am. Well, I do have a funny story about what kept me motivated to restore is when I went to graduate school and graduated. My first job was at a residential treatment, substance abuse treatment facility. And we had to do drug testing all the time. Like every single day we were doing drug testing
on somebody. And there was this kid in the, in the group, he is like 19 or something like that. And we would give him this little bottle about, you know, an inch around and 2 or 3 inches tall, and that's what they would pee in. And we had this lid that had a little dipstick in it, and it would do its thing, but he would pull his foreskin back. He would put the bottle over the head of his penis and roll his foreskin back over the bottle. And then he'd put his hands up on his head and
fill it. And I remember watching him, like, because you had to do the visual, you know, verification thing. I remember watching him and going, God, I am so jealous. I want that. And so that's, that's one of the things that kept me motivated to keep restoring. I think envy is, like, where our kind of common ground. You know, we're all envious, like, to one of the deadly sins, and we cannot help who was it. Like, someone said there was a quote, like, envy is the only sin
that doesn't give the sinner pleasure. I don't remember. Yeah, gosh, I can totally agree with that. Envy is definitely a motivating factor for me. I see people who have all of their parts and pieces, and I just, I want to be whole. Turkish Restora. That brings up a very interesting point. I don't know if you've experienced this as well, but the very few people in irl, as they call it,
that know that I'm restoring. Usually the people that are circumcised think that it's kind of silly, but women and intact men totally get it. And I don't think it's a coincidence because they understand what I'm missing because every woman I've told and every intact guy I've told, I don't have to explain anything. Like, yeah, of course you would get it back. It would be. It would be as sensical as it would be for somebody with a prosthetic, having a prosthetic leg so they can
walk and not have to be confined to a wheelchair. That's the level, what makes sense to them. What was the biggest obstacle, that first obstacle? What would you say the first big obstacle was when you're first getting into. It so early on? The obstacle was, more than anything else was just time because I was a student and I
was going to school full time and working full time. So, you know, when I got home in the evening, I didn't really have a whole lot of time, so I tried to stretch as much as I could. Then, of course, the military, I didn't. There was no chance in hell I could do anything during that time. And then after I got out of the military, I had children and, you know, the lack of privacy and also lack
of time, to be honest, that was me. But Turkish restorer, what kind of challenges did you have at the very beginning? Well, believing in it was the biggest challenge, to be honest. I kind of saw it as this niche, or, I mean, it is niche, but, like, this a very niche thing that only people with some mental problems
would try. So I was like, yeah, I'm not that weird, but the other day we were talking about, like, developing an obsession over foreskin, and I think there was a mild consensus that, yeah, you cannot be not obsessed with having a foreskin and restore it. You practically cannot motivate yourself. So, like, my main challenge was believing in it. You know, there are all these rumors. People will be like, yeah, I mean, I have seen a few times, not that often, but people saying,
I have been trying for 10 years. Nothing is happening. And online, you could. You're allowed to say whatever you want, you know, like, it is very disheartening to read that, but the majority of the time, people have always been like, yeah, I am. I started from here. Now I'm here. And for the listeners as well. Like, I want to say, like, listen to everyone for sure, but don't listen to everyone. Do not believe in everything you say. I would recommend.
I like what you just brought up, and it's a. It's a point I should have thought to bring up earlier, is that one of the biggest obstacles is not only realizing that this is real. That's a. I think we all struggle with, is this a real thing or not? Well, most of us do. I. I naively assumed that it was, and I was right this time. But. But the other struggle is to find out what information is accurate because we've got people online that claim I went from a CI0 to a CI10 and
three months. I'm exaggerating for comedic effect, but you have people that it's just not possible for. Open roads and myself, Dick Iver, we started a while ago when there was a lot less information. And in some ways that made it easier because there wasn't. There wasn't as much information, but there also wasn't as much wrong information. There was a lot less to sort through. I also think it's easier because I didn't know what I didn't know.
Right. And now the wiki in the Reddit group has so much information that you can see, like, what your struggles are going to be much further down the road. And on the one hand, I think, gosh, they're so blessed because there's so much information available, but then I think it's a curse too, because if you're brand spanking new and you land in the foreskin restoration sub and you click on that wiki like,
you're immediately overwhelmed. Yep. Yeah. That's basically, I think, one of the reasons that we decided to have this episode to, you know, go through the basics, at least for a beginner. Yeah. And, you know, what are the basics? The basics are you basically stretch your skin for as long as you can, and the skin will grow. When you put it under tension. Is it time under tension or. Yeah,
time under tension is the magic formula. So. And Jim Bigelow, all the way back at the beginning, he knew that you just got to stretch it and it will grow. I remember that I was secretly restoring and. And I was at work and there was a guy who was actively stretching his earlobes, and he was not shamed about it at all. You know, he would openly talk about how he. He increased a gauge that he's grown so much skin that he could increase a gauge.
And I would secretly listen to him brag about his progress in stretching out his earlobe. You know, the whole time he's talking about that I've got a DTR on in my pants. We've been throwing around these. These terms, and for a listener that's just starting, we should probably define what some of these suckers are. Yeah, that's a good idea. So Turkish restore. Do you have, like, a list of terms that we should probably help people understand. Yeah. And we could gamify the last three. All right,
let's start with CI. CI is coverage index. If people check like CI coverage index foreskin on any research engine, they will find a. Like, probably on restoring foreskin.org actually, there is a chart that shows like, it goes from CI0 to CI10. Everything we're talking about is 18 plus, obviously. So I have to point that out because if you write coverage index, you will. You might see male genitalia. At the very least, you'll see drawings. At least. Drawings. Yeah. I would give some
advice when it comes to the CI levels. It's very easy at the beginning to get kind of obsessed with the CI levels. What, what CI level am I trying to measure? Like, is it. Am I getting rollover? Am I not getting rollover? I would recommend that you focus on the positive symptoms, like the things you experience instead of, I want my dick to look like that picture. It's more. When you're at CI5, do I have a rollover? Do these things happen? I pay more attention to the text than the image.
I would say, yeah, that's a good point. And the CI index is not the only index. There's also force direct coverage. And Ron Lau developed this. And you can find, well, you used to be able to find that on the, on the TLC Tugger website. And I'm not sure if Zach is going to bring it back on the stealth retainer better with a sweater site. But forced erect coverage is where you, you get erect and then you pull the skin up as much as you can. And so you measure, you know, how much you can get
covered while fully erect. Yeah. To add to what Dick said, just deciber focus on the CI level is like, do you guys. I think I'm ready for a device right now. Should I just go with the manuals and everything? I mean, yes, even like the temperature, your sexual arousal level, everything affects your skin level. So you might misdiagnose diagnosis and ugly word your skin level, CI level, you know, coverage level. So I think I
would if I had the opportunity. If you are in a place to afford a device, just get a device. And if you cannot use it today, you will use it in a few months. Absolutely. Like, I mean, it is going to take a few years. So there's nothing to be worried. Like, you're not wasting any money on anything. There's also the mentality of like, I saw this a couple of times. What if I regret? What if it's the wrong decision. What if I fuck up my penis and everything again? It takes long
years. So you can change your mind anytime you want. I saw once, what if my glance is too sensitive? And halfway through in two years, if your glance becomes very sensitive, you might work on that. What I will tell though, I learned it recently from a fellow restorer. Retaining without the skin might be uncomfortable. So. So retaining that. Let's go back to our vocabulary list. What does retaining mean? Retaining is. It's very similar to restoring,
but the goal is different. Retaining is simply keeping the glands covered by some means. Whether it's wearing something or just pulling the skin forward and taping it. You're just keeping the glands covered to produce deceratinization, which is another term we can go over. We mentioned before that the glans of the penis. Ah, another term that was the head of the penis. The head of the penis, the glans is supposed to be an internal
organ. If you keep it covered, it becomes moist like the inside of your cheek in your mouth. Ever have the dentist pull, like have your mouth open and they're doing the suction, it dries out and it feels weird. That's basically what the head of the penis is like when you're circumcised. By retaining, you reintroduce moisture and you don't let it dry out. The issue that we were talking about is that if you're not at a CI level, the coverage index level that can actually cover the
glands all the time. If you produce it with a device, let's say you're not wearing that device, then you have something that's not used to being that sensitive, completely uncovered. The great thing about foreskin is that it keeps the head of your penis covered when you want it and not covered when you don't want it to be covered. It's like when you want to use it for pleasure, you can uncover it and it's all moist and it's got those nerve endings that aren't just covered up with a
callus. Basically you said when you're circumcised. But some people see it as a sugar coated term, even though it's not a false term. But people, especially in the intactivist community, people are using mgm. Male genital mutilation. MGM is a term that people might come across often as well. And you said nerve endings, which led me to the idea of frenulum. Would open roads inform us about the frenulum. Yeah. So I'm very fortunate that I've got one Right. You know? Yeah. So many lucky hairs
cut off. But right at the, you know, bottom tip of your glans, the foreskin kind of comes together at that point. And that frenulum is, is sort of like the frenulum under your tongue. Right. So if you, if you go and look in the mirror and you lift your tongue up, there's this piece of skin that kind of connects your tongue to the lower part of your mouth. Well, the frenulum on your penis works similar to that. And it is very sensitive. Very, very sensitive. I have a frenulum
as well, as you can see. Yeah. Actually, we didn't tell anyone, but we're recording this naked so we all can see each other's channels. The listener can decide if that's true or not. Well, I mean, that is kind of a funny aspect of my restoration journey is when you connect to this community, you see so many penises that after a while it just doesn't even, it doesn't even bother me at all to totally see a penis because I've seen thousands of them at this point.
And when it comes to the frenulum, I'm the unlucky one out here. I don't, I don't have a frenulum. But I can tell you from experience, because a lot of you out there aren't going to have a frenulum. I can tell you from experience that it is still very much worth it to restore even if
you don't have one. Because the, the pleasure I experience from sexual activity, not including the orgasm, like the, the buildup is better than my orgasms used to be and the orgasms are full body now, almost every time now. I'm envious. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, frenulum is, is a term that if you're new to restoring, you're probably going to encounter that term quite a bit. Can anybody think of another vocabulary word that. Oh yeah, K O T. Yeah, K. O T. Keep on tugging. Yeah, you see
that a lot. That confused me. The. I was like, why do these people like military sleeping equipment? Yeah. Oh, here's another good one. Inner skin versus outer skin. Oh yeah, yeah, that, that's a hot topic right there. Because you know when you're brand spanking new to recovery, your scar line is like kind of dead in the middle of your penis. And everything above the scar line is what would have been covered like that skin would have never been dry and would never have been exposed to the air.
And everything below the scar line towards your body would be the external part of Your foreskin. I'm glad that we have a varied group today because just from you saying that makes me realize that your starting experience was a bit different than mine. Because there is maybe 1 or 2 millimeters. So there wasn't really a scar line in the middle of that situation. It was just like just almost right
up to the head of the penis. There's variation in starting point, which is an important thing to point out too. Not criticizing you, I just thought that would be interesting. I mean. Well, that's an excellent point that one of the exciting things about a penis is the variation. And the reason people get excited about penises is because they come in so many different shapes and sizes and, and you know, so everyone's circumcision experience, it can vary quite a bit.
You know what might be good for us to talk about? Since we're talking about how to get started, maybe we should talk about the first few CI levels and what techniques will work if you start out. Like, if you're a CI0, what should you do if you're find yourself lucky and you're a CI2 or three. So when somebody's listening, they can go, ah, that sounds like me. I can start with this technique and get hit the. Get hit the ground running.
Early on when you're CI01, even 2, T tape is like one of the best things that you can use manual methods. You might hear that called Andre's method. Those are the options that you have when you're first starting out. What the heck is T tape? Well, T tape is a generally a medical tape. And there are multiple brands that are suggested mostly on Reddit. Many experienced people share different brands, mostly sold in the United States, obviously, but I'm sure there's an equivalent in
every country. It's a medical tape. Sadly, we cannot show how it works, but mainly you stick the tape like 10 centimeter long. Could you say that in inches? Dick Guymer. Oh, I don't really know us customer either. 10cm is 3.937 inches. It's like a few tapes that you stick just below your glans on the shaft and you generally pull the T tape with an elastic band and you tie it on your neck, or you can stretch it down and tie it on your ankle so it
creates this constant tension. And it is actually quite comfortable to use if you get used to it because you wouldn't worry about erections. You can pee while you're on T tapes. So it is having a huge comeback. I will say that too. Generally it's a beginner's method, but people are really going back to T tape. After a while. It is happening. This sad part is like a sad part. Well, the downside is you need to practice a lot to be able to use it comfortably.
And when you take it off, you can harm yourself if you don't know how to take it off patiently. If you have an active sex life, you will be affected by the leftovers of the tape. And when I was doing T tape, it had a psychological effect on me. It really looked like it's stupid, but it really looked like I was trying to recover from circumcision or something, which I was recovering from circumcision, but I didn't like having medical things on my penis. But it was just
my approach. Many other people are happily using T tape. So later, when you get some skin, CI, 2, 3, 4. That's when devices become a very powerful ally in your toolbox. Yeah. And I could gamify it right here and ask you what DTR stands for. Oh, my gosh. Dual Tension Restore. Oh, yeah, I didn't remember that. Yeah. And you know, dual tension is another vocabulary word. So when the dual tension device came out previously, what we, what we did is we either stretched inside skin or we stretched
outside skin. But there wasn't a way to do both at the same time. And what the dual tension restorer did when he invented that was that it allowed me to stretch the outside skin while simultaneously stretching the inside skin. And that was a big game changer for the whole, you know, scientific approach of. Of restoration. You know, when it comes to restoring, there's a few main principles. Like, I think this can get confusing for, for somebody just
starting out. But every device typically works on. It's either a tugger, which just think it's. It's something that tugs at the skin. So you have a strap or a weight, it pulls. So whatever skin is being pulled, that's what grows. There's inflation. So you instead are expanding the skin using, like, basically think of it as a foreskin balloon. Okay. So there's. There's tuggers, air. Oh, dual tensioners. Like you're talking about where there's a pusher plate,
so you've got the glands, they're being pushed back. Well, the skin is being held in place, so they're being pulled. And there's also packers, but they're really just. It's like dual tensioners with less steps. It's. There's manual methods, which is just manually manipulating the skin, holding it for Long enough to trigger mitosis. And. Oh, there we go. We have another vocabulary word. Oh, I feel like it should be like Peewee's Playhouse, where there's another word.
Oh, wait, mitosis. Who wants to take this one? Well, I mean, mitosis is really just cell division, right? So as you put your skin under tension, it sends a signal to your body to populate new cells. So you're not so much stretching skin as you are adding new cells, but it requires a signal, and tension is the signal. So when you put your penis skin under tension, your body says, oh, my gosh, we've got to accommodate for this, and it starts adding cells, and that's called mitosis.
How much would one pay if they wanted to purchase a device today? What's the range? Well, I mean, that's the sad part is I probably spent $40 on my DTR, but today you can spend $300 on a device. Now, the bad news is they're more expensive. Now, the good news is they're also much more effective. Yeah, it's kind of like cars. Here. Dick Jiver is talking about a car. The vehicle. Not to be confused with the car that stands for Chris's Air Retainer, which is a restoration
device. You hear a lot of people going, I could buy a car for X amount of dollars back in the day, but that car didn't have seatbelts, airbags, a roll bar. These devices are better. They're more expensive. But Otto brought up a very good point in his interview, and that is you can start for $5 to buy some tape and start making T or J tapes day one. And you can also get started
not buying anything. You can just use manual methods, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think everybody starts out with manual and then gives up and gets a device. That's kind of what happens. Well, in between those two, there's T type. And I would be remiss to not mention you can degiver stuff. There are homemade homemake devices. It's a little trickier, but, yeah, you can make your own devices.
Okay, with all of that in mind, Dick Iver, what's your advice for somebody who's just getting started? If you're just starting out, the device or technique you use at the beginning isn't going to be the same one you end with. And whatever you do, the most effective restorers find a way of fitting both their talents and get around their disadvantages. So if you have to work constantly figuring out a way of getting around scheduling issues, or if you're good at making things working that in.
The people that have trouble restoring are the ones that try to fight against their nature. If you're somebody you don't want to just fight against your nature. If you're really good at keeping track and keeping diligent, then manual might be your method all the way through. And when you're trying a device, try it on a day off from work. Don't try it when you can't get to a bathroom to take it
off. Always try it on a day off. Then after that, when you know how it affects your body, you can go forth. And I would add one more thing, and that is don't feel like it's going to take so many years and then all of a sudden you're going to get all the benefits. You start getting those benefits as you're going, so you'll notice those along the way. So don't feel like, oh, I have to wait 10 years or five years to get those benefits. You start getting these little gifts along the way.
To borrow a term from one of the people we interviewed. Yeah, absolutely. And so Turkish restore. What advice do you have for people? I would have two One, find the community. Keep in touch with people who are preferably experienced and they know what they're talking about. And secondly, do not be a hero. This isn't a sprint. And do not tolerate pain. Do not try to be quote unquote man about it while you have one penis and you don't want to harm yourself.
And I would wrap that up by just saying focus on the positive. It's so easy to get bent out of shape about what we're missing and all the how unfair it is that we have to do this. But focus on what you're going to get when you achieve CI whatever your goal is and you know sex is going to be better, you're going to feel whole. Focus on the positive. Well, that's it for this one. We hope you enjoyed the first episode of
the Intact Again podcast cocktail hour. If you'd like to be a guest on a future cocktail hour, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at intact again podcastmail.com or DM us on any of our socials. Links are in the description. Thanks for coming. And remember, keep on tugging.