Ep. 180: The Future of Cyber Insurance and Parametric Risk

On this episode of the Insure Tech Geek Podcast, we explore parametric insurance, cyber risk, and the evolving MGA market with Rick Wong, head of insurance at parametrics insurance.

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And we are back with another great episode of the Insure Tech Geek Podcast. I am here live at Rems 2026. Here in beautiful Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, with me, head of insurance at Parametrics, Rick Wong. Rick, how are you?

Good, how are you doing?

Awesome. Great to have you on the show.

Great to be here.

For context for our listeners, we're in a little sound booth uh here hanging out and so uh the Exactly. So the exciting thing is we've got a bunch of bunch of stuff going on in the whole conference floor. And uh thanks to Rems, we've got a little setup here for us to record in. Uh super excited to be here. Uh super excited to have you on the show and of course we talk about all things insurance, all things insurance tech.

Uh New York, New York. Grew up in Chinatown in Manhattan. Uh born there. My parents grew up there. So I actually didn't leave the New York area, uh, until I was like twenty eight. Went to NYU. Um, yeah, I was a real city kid for a long time and then When I joined his cocks, they moved me to San Francisco.

Where'd you go to high school?

Oh, so that was interesting. Uh my parents moved us to Jersey'cause they were really worried about the high schools in New York and like how dangerous they could be. So for high school we went out to Jersey, grew up there, uh did like four years at Old Bridge High School and then right back to NYU.

So you d so you didn't you didn't go to like PS thirty four or PS one twenty eight?

I went to PS 124 for elementary school. Yeah, in the building that like it's basically attached to the apartment building I grew up in. Wow. Yeah, so like I didn't even really leave the courtyard. Like it was

That's wild to me, like

y'all

How urban the schools are too.

Yeah.

Well my daughter's in NYU right now.

Oh awesome.

So I I go every month and visit her and hang out in West Village. So uh what'd you fantastic what'd you study at NYU?

So I did a double degree. I got an associate in arts degree because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And then I transferred over to Stern and then got uh double major finance and information systems.

Wonderful. It's similar kind of combination to what I did. I went to Texas AM and I got an a degree in accounting, a master's in MIS. Yeah. It was a five year undergrad master's for.

Oh no.

a phenomenal school. My my daughter's in Tish. So she's she she's uh she's a mu um a the uh acting major there wants to be on Broadway so

Yeah, Stern's an interesting place'cause it's not like a normal college experience. Like I think my first day I went to school, like class in like a hoodie and sweatpants and there were kids in like Full suits and ties going to internships at like Goldman Sachs right after class. And I was like, oh, this is not what I thought it was gonna be.

It's nothing nothing like other college campuses.

No, it's like right in the center center of the city. I mean it's a lot of fun, uh and you get A different but more expensive college experience.

Yeah it is. Yeah. Yeah, like frat parties are in an apartment building somewhere.

The nicest apartment I've ever lived in was my sophomore year door. Yeah. It's like it wa it's like right on Water Street, two walls of windows, overlooking the Brooklyn Bridge. It was

It's not bad.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. She her dorm was great. Overlooked Washington Square Park.

Yeah.

She's no longer there, but uh I mean cla blast day of classes today.

Next. Yeah.

So what did you dream of doing when you were a kid or in college? Did you have a did you have a plan or a goal?

No, like it was uh insurance is something I fell into. My parents actually do title insurance, um or they did before they retired. But uh so I grew up working in like Fidelity National title. Like in the summers I would intern there, uh, gopher, typist, all these like random

No it was not.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh wound up at B and P Parabah, hated every minute of it. Um and then I had a friend who had a friend that was hiring at AIG into the ops team. So that's how I got into insurance. Yeah.

Yeah, it seems like AIG is the entry point for a lot of people.

Especially back then, yeah. This is pre pan uh pre financial crisis. I was there from two thousand three to two thousand eight and then two thousand eight was a real interesting time. Yeah.

You don't say. Did AIG have any problems around it?

Yeah, yeah. We were in the buildings that they were like all the the cameras were stalking and like we were just they were just like, Don't say anything, just keep walking, keep walking. Yeah.

Wild. Did you leave during the global financial crisis?

I did. I left in November of that year. So the team I was on was basically the private nonprofit middle market DNO team. And uh I was I was in operations at the time. I wanted to transition into underwriting, but you know the financial crisis happened, that kinda put a hold on everything. Yeah. So part of the tea executive team went to Allied World, part of the executive team went to Hiscox. The Hiscox team was like, We'll make you an underwriter and so did that. Yeah.

So what was your what were your jobs at IG then? If you did underwriting in Hiscox?

Uh so I was the Div 39 operations manager. I did all budgeting, financial reporting, uh reconciliation, stuff like that.

So was it like going from ops and finance and to underwriting?

It's It was a good transition, I think mostly because of what I was doing. I went into DNO underwriting, which is like a lot of financial analysis, and it kind of just like transferred over really well. But a lot of like insurance like we were talking about before is like relationship based and, you know, trust based and think I do that really well, build trust, so and get along with a lot of people. So it was easy transition. Yeah. Plus it gave me a lot of like

That's a dramatic change. That's called extreme budgeting, right?

It was it was a interesting time, like global calls every day, you know, just like no one really knew what was gonna happen. You would get like these emails that like Zurich hired a hundred people out of the New York office in a single day. Like it was even Hiscox when I went They started thirteen new product lines in that in that

Yeah, so you know from pain comes opportunity, right?

Yeah, yeah. So it was a lot of fun.

From Hiscox and being an underwriter, what was the path to parametrics?

Uh so started on writing Dino at um his cocks. It was a brand new team. I was the only I was the first underwriter, only underwriter. And then as that grew, we hired like three or four people in New York. And then his cogs had this like push to go to these like regional offices and they sent everyone from the New York New York office out. So got the opportunity in move to San Francisco and ran the DNO team there.

Then went back to San Francisco.

And then I went back to San Francisco and ran all lines for the Pacific Northwest. Then the pandemic hit, they were just wanted to shrink their their footprint and wanted me to move to Atlanta and my wife was like, Absolutely not.

For San Francisco.

No, no, yeah, yeah. She's like, There's no way all our friends are here, like, find a new job and I was like, Okay

Are y'all in the town? Are y'all in

Yeah, we're in San Francisco proper and obhill. Um so it's at the top of the hill.

That was great.

Yeah, too you have to walk home and then it's like like I my walk to work is like fifteen minutes, my walk home is like forty'cause it's downhill versus uphill. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

No trawlers going up now hill?

like you get the exercise and like the trolley's like nine bucks. Like so Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, unless you buy it like a monthly and I don't take it enough to buy a monthly, so yeah.

Yeah, you know I I grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. My uh family all lives in New Orleans and they have a a great trolley. Yeah. Snow Hills in New Orleans, so so it's kind of a a a crapshoot. It's uh it's it's not nine dollars though.

Yeah, the bus is like two something. If it was two something I might take the trolley because it's

That's cal inflation for you right there.

It runs right past our house.

That's cool. So tell me like what what led you to to join Parametrics and and what does it do?

Yeah. Um I get that question a lot, especially like when we're interviewing people'cause we are a startup, right? We're insure tech startup. Um I always give the example or like the reasoning as like You're I worked at two hundred year old companies, AIG and Hiscox, right? When you're at a a large company, if you want to do something new, it could take a lot of time.

So if I have all my infrastructure on Azure

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Pay me out the second that goes down.

Uh we have a waiting period, but yeah. Uh and it's

So it's like a disability policy. Like you you have to wait for you.

made. Yeah, so like I mean our waiting period's like two, three hours um on the cloud product. But yeah, basically we quantify what you stand to lose up front on a w on an hourly basis and then Uh when an outage happens, we're monitoring the system anyway. You let us know when the outage is over. You were down for eight hours, you had a three-hour waiting period. We give you the hourly compensation for five hours.

That was product number one.

That was product number one. Yeah.

And did you primarily sell it to technology companies like mine that are hosting in in the cloud?

Yeah. So we had a couple of programs that did like small startup tech companies that uh really, you know, didn't have the balance sheet that large companies have. So like any kind of business interruption really helped them. uh really hurt them and this product helped. And then we worked with a lot of brokers to get into like the larger companies and started getting into like retail, SaaS companies, um, you know, online gambling, online gaming, stuff like that.

All right, so what lines do you offer now?

So we basically have like three verticals, right? We have uh what we call our critical system outage policy, which is incorporates the cloud downtime product, but it can be any first or third party name system. And then we have our tech cyber product, which incorporates parametric BI. And then we have our data center SLA product. So we basically become the financial backstop for data center SLAs. Yeah.

So the the data center then uses you.

Yeah, so the data center buys.

Yeah, so yeah, so they're they're laying their risk off on their SLAs. Yeah.

Exactly.

literally just hand you the contract to the SLAs and and then we match it.

Cover it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

I've used a lot of data centers in the last twenty five years.

Yeah.

You had one in Louisiana, then I had one in Dallas, then I had one in Bryan and now we're a hundred percent on Azure. Yeah. And Azure goes down. You know, Azure's got a big problem right now. They're out of space in the East Data Center. Do you know that?

Yeah, yeah. And they're they're adding like everyone's adding. Yeah, that's the problem.

Like you really can't get capacity in the East region.

That's but they have East Two, they have

Oh, they're the east too, they have central of the middle west, yeah.

So they have a bunch of people.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And especially with the the cloud with how fast it's growing and the expansion of data centers. But like data centers take a couple years to build, right? And so like Everyone is building a data center now and it's like are you gonna be co-location, hyperscaler? Like there's a lot of growth happening in the space, but with growth growth and fast construction comes the issue.

So w best loss ratios, can you can you say?

Uh I mean our our cloud product is probably running uh around twenty percent. Like all of our new other products are fairly new, last eighteen months, so we don't really have too much of Queen's history. Uh like our tech cyber product launch in October, our data center product launch in like August. If we had like really bad wasp ratios or any was ratios would be really bad for us, right?

Yeah, you would it would have been you would have gotten catastrophically bad losses immediately.

Yeah, especially like on the data center side, we're putting up anywhere from like twenty to a hundred and fifty million, yeah, per risk. So yeah. It could be pretty bad.

Yeah, it can be pretty bad. Okay. Do you have do you ever go out out of curiosity, do you ever go and inspect the risk yourself?

We we have done data center tours. Um, you know, like we have a team that focuses on data centers and they've gone and looked at a couple. We're really good at like reviewing what's on paper and taking the submission information just like any other risk. But we do occasionally go and see more because they're just interesting, right?

I love data sanitary. Yeah.

Yeah. And like all these new ones, right? Like Meta's building one the size of Manhattan in Louisiana, like that's gotta be interesting to see. Like how do you get around that? Like how how big will that be?

Exactly. How many robots does it take to run the facility? They're doing some crazy stuff with robotics to run these facilities too, so

Exactly. Pretty neat. Yeah. So we have a team that goes out and sees it's not part of our underwriting, but like it's definitely something we do. Yeah.

So explain parametric insurance to the uninitiated.

Yeah, so parametric insurance started in the property space, right? Weather related risks. So It's easy to think about in that space because it's like if it rains, you know, if the wind blows X miles an hour, right, you get Y. If it if you get X amount of feet of flood, you get Z, right? So it's very quantifiable risk.

It's it's a l little bit less because like it it behaves much more like a betting book, right?

Yeah, I mean we we use our information to model it, but like insurance is is betting, right? Like you're

Yeah, but parametric is really like betting. Because in you know in betting there doesn't have to be a loss event, just that the event has to be triggered, right? Correct. And in parametric insurance, like you you're not even gonna spend time calculating what their damages are. You're just gonna pay out what you owe basically.

Certify that there is a loss, a financial loss, right? They don't have to quantify. And that's the the beauty of the product, right? Like in some instances, like if we're saying you're gonna get$100,000 an hour, you might have lost fifty, but you might have lost five million, right? But like

You're still good.

Yeah, you're getting that that agreed amount of those.

agreed values are up front.

And so you get the certainty and you don't have to go through forensics, right? Like which, you know, on a a cyber claim, if you're a a SaaS company and you're subscribed revenue subscription based. How do you prove an actual loss? It's very difficult. Yeah. And so what you're trying to do is like eliminate all that confusion and um, you know, difficulty. Yeah.

So what tech have you enabled? What tech have you implemented or built? That's been a game changer for you.

For us it's really our ability uh how we started was building a tech stack to monitor the cloud, right? So we have our original technology stack was monitoring AWS, Google, and Microsoft Azure. We basically run every service in every availability zone, in every region. For those three cloud providers all day, every day.

Yeah.

And so we we have accounts with them. We like if we're spinning up a virtual machine, we're spinning up a virtual machine all day, every day on every one of these availability zones and and data centers.

So you're prevalidating if it's actually down or not?

Yeah, so then we'll know like if if we can't spin up a virtual machine, then we'll try to spin up ten. If we can't spin up ten, then we'll try to spin up a hundred. Wow and that gives us the ability to see when downtime is happening. Wow. Uh before it may may be announced, right? And so our monitoring system is very strong. Like that was our original tech stack. And then

That's amazing. And you know there's there's a lot of those type of events that go on.

Yeah. And we have our cloud outage risk report that comes out every year and we analyze the trends and let everyone know like what what everything's looking like and it's like we've done it for three years now. Um, but our monitoring capabilities have expanded a lot. We're now monitoring like 7,000 other companies. Um We either pay for the service and Do it like we do with the the cloud where we're we're running the service. We might use the service like so we're using

Before that you pay for it.

Yeah. Uh but we're already using like Salesforce, right? So we like use Salesforce and so we have insight into like how that's running for us. Uh we get public data and we buy data as well, right? So it all feeds our our modest thing. And like when we have Like now that we're in the tech cyberspace, we see more of what like the digital supply chain looks like for certain companies.

That's pretty amazing.

It it's really cool. Like and we that's how we m model and build and price our products. Yeah.

So do you also do security scans and security sweeps and configuration scans and like if someone if you know they have they've misconfigured their system, are you telling them, Hey, you you have to remediate this as a condition of our policy coverage? No.

So like now that we have like a tech cyber policy, we're starting to get into using vendors for a lot of that, like the standard scans, like you know, like Coalition does a scan, AppE does a scan, like the Do we don't wanna build that technology in house. We wanna focus on our our monitoring stuff.

New ones every day.

Yeah, and so for us it's not like How good are and accurate those comp uh those models are? It's how available are they? If they fail, how many companies are gonna go down from that?

Yeah, true. Yeah,'cause each one of them could be five hundred companies. Yeah.

Exactly.

You can have knock on big, big knock on effects. Yeah. One data center can take out five hundred providers and then those five hundred providers would solve conserve five hundred companies each and you you now you're edging towards a quarter million. Affected people from an out is pretty big deal. So are you are you doing a full cyber, you know? Like are you like straight up head to head against coalition?

Yeah, we're doing a full cyber Eno policy. Um we were writing on the Markel three sixty form. We wrote our own form um to incorporate our parametric BI. So basically instead of like a standard liability BI policy where like you'll have to file a claim, you'll go through forensics, you'll have to justify the loss, we'll do a pre-agreed daily BI amount. And so if there's a BI event then

Some a tech company on coalition. Um now, now on a different carrier, we actually just moved, but but you know. Am I the ideal customer profile? A SA a SASTEC company in insurance that has uh you know a bunch of cloud providers and

Yeah, yeah. For us it's like SaaS companies are uniquely um It will uniquely benefit from our policy because

You know we don't call none of us call ourselves SaaS companies.

Yeah.

We're just all air company.

Everyone's AI. You just gotta get the right buzzword. But like easy I I'm assuming you run on a subscription revenue. Sure. Right? Like so proving a business in interruption loss for you would be very difficult because like you're still making the money uh over time but like it's gonna cost you s something, right? Like And so how do you quantify that what with a standard forensic process where in our poles uh you don't have to?

Yeah. Is that and that's the fundamental difference with your policy docs, right? Yeah. Your policy documents specify a trigger event and a trigger payout. Yep. Is that good? Is that accurate?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. We we really tout the like the ease of using our our claims process.

So what they have noticed is that um insurance carriers and brokers and others are putting higher and higher and higher limit requirements on their tech vendors' E and O policies. So how are you dealing with that? What's the biggest policy all right?

I mean on a on a tech ENO policy we have the pen for up to fifteen million, right? So that's a but on our business interruption policy or our data center policy, we're putting up anywhere from You know, twenty to one hundred and fifty million and we have one data center account where we're trying to build a five hundred million dollar tower. Yeah.

Ga you gotta think about how many hundreds of thousands of companies And slash millions of people are affected by a single data center outage just

Exactly, right. And so what we do is like we match our data center policy will match the terms of the SLA that they provide to their renter, whether it's a hyperscaler scaler or a co location. And so, you know, that's what they stand to lose. So we're basically protecting their revenue, making it just like a better asset to either invest in or just own, right? Like'cause you streamline the revenue.

Yeah, it's really Neat. I mean, as a regular buyer of uh of techie. So you're you're embedding the airs and emission policy with the cyber policy?

Yeah, yeah.

It's all a combination package, just like everybody else. Yeah. Except you're different. Is there are there any other parametric players in the in the uh techie? Cyber Eno package base.

I think there's one out of like France Descartes, but like in the US I think we are the only one right now. Yeah.

This is good.

Good. Yeah. We finished Q one sixty percent of what we did in all tw twenty twenty five. We're projecting to be yeah, over two hundred percent growth this year.

So your distribution partners are catching on to this?

Yeah, i it took some time, right? Like you know, parametric as a concept was very popular in like property and construction, like and very well known, but like getting it into like, you know, the commercial side is

Yeah.

Took some time and not only that the brokers have to understand, like the clients have to understand too, right? Like it's

Yeah, that they have a risk, that they can cover it. Yeah. What it means.

Exactly.

Yeah. What a combined E and O and cyber pol policy does for you.

And like our standalone BI policy sits next to the the tech cyber policy.

Yes. So have you implemented a lot of proprietary tech? Like do you do you port scan all of your clients every day? Are you going doing automated pen testing and vulnerability assessments? Like how far are you going with this?

So like again, like for for what we do on like the tech side, it's really investing in our monitoring capabilities and our and modeling capabilities. So it's really just like What can we how can we expand that to improve our data set, to add new products, to add um more coverage, right?

Yeah. What code have you written versus licensed? Like where where where have you really had to you don't have to get you don't have to get super granular with me, but you just speak in generalities.

No of our code is written in house.

So you built everything.

Yeah. All built in house our CEO is very uh Very much in the the frame that like if it builds it, if you we build it in-house, it adds to the value of the company. We just built our policy administration system this year. Right. We were using Salesforce as a kind of a policy administration system and it it wasn't really working for us in that regard. And we shopped around to different vendors and our our engineers were like, we can do this in eight weeks.

Yeah, it's

I mean I've built a bunch of ground up systems. Yeah. I mean a bunch. Twenty five years of it. Yeah. I've I've I I've been been around you you and I are most the exact same age. You're forty three, forty four.

Forty five. Forty five.

Yeah.

Firty seven.

So we're two years apart. Crashway College and O One. So you know, you and I have both been around the block long enough to have done this a few times. Yeah. Got got some scar tissue and some battle wounds, right? Oh. I I honestly look the for for me the joy is in the building. Mm-hmm. I I I try really hard to not let that be um

And our engineers are great. Like we did a policy administration system at Hiscox and I I it took forever, but we didn't have our own engineers, right? We outsourced that and it was like a lot of gathering the information and and then handing it off and them going to build it. Whereas like here we have a team of engineers, um project manager, our

Yeah. Doesn't always work that well. Uh. Especially when you're when you have a an is older established organization running lots of programs. It takes a lot longer. Oh and that's the problem. Yeah. When you're when you're de novo, man, it's a pair it's a it's a heyday, right? Yeah. It's fun starting from a blank sheet. Yeah. All right, so kind of kinda closing out.

I I think for me it's really about like doing something different. Like we're not We're not trying to stay in a lane, right? Like we think that if we can build some technology and get the right data, that there are things we can innovate, even on our tech cyber policy, like what we're doing the data center space, like data centers are Growing like crazy. But from a tech cyber standpoint, the exclusions on a standard

If you're

meta, right? And you sit on seven hundred million in cash, do you really need like a a a quicker payout on your business interruption policy? Right? Probably not. But if you're a mid size company, It's great, right? And and you need that liquidity. Um, but if you're meta, you probably need our data center policy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool. That's why that's why I'm I'm excited about that too.

Yeah.

Well, this was a really fun conversation. You know, you opened my mind up to honestly an area of parametric that I hadn't thought about putting parametric in. Which is my own. Yeah. Which should shows you how locked into our own our own We don't think, Hey, maybe I should have parametric insurance on this. Yeah. For me a an outage is like a farmer not getting rain. That's a big deal, you know.

Yeah, and that's you know, we've been we're out there, we're trying to get people to understand what we're doing and to understand the exposure. Right. Um, but yeah, it's been a really good ride and really excited to see where we're going next. Yeah.

And you gotta be worried about the extreme prevalence of bad actors using AI.

That's for any cyber exposure, it's it's gonna be your problem. Yeah.

a really scary deal. Yeah. And I'll be honest, see you know I've been riding code since I was eleven. Uh 1991. Ninety two, ninety three, ninety four. I started right go before the internet. Mm-hmm. And we would hack our friends' computers.

Yeah.

We would fake a login screen. One of my favorites was faking a login screen and then loading it on all the computer lab computers and then logging all your friends' passwords. Yeah. Like that was a fun one. Yeah. Hacking used to be fun and jovial and What we're dealing with now is multi billion dollar criminal organized ranges that are leveraging large language models.

They're backed by nations.

They're b they're backed by nations, they're protected by state actors. Yeah. And they're synthesizing voices. They're mimicking numbers and text numbers and phone tone and this is serious. You know, and then I I think there's we have this really weird existential threat of of quantum computers. Mm-hmm. Like if we don't upgrade hardcore our encryption techniques. I mean quantum computers can hash they can break all of your own.

Even with the news, was it um Anthropic didn't release their most recent. It's too good.

They had they'd found okay, you saw all the stuff it found twenty-five-year-old vulnerabilities that no one's ever exposed. What the hell is this thing? I mean, is it the greatest hacker that was ever created accidentally? Probably. Yeah.

But like EDR companies will get better, like more technical.

get better or they're gonna get hacked. I mean this is serious stuff.

It is You know why insurance exists too, right? Like if if you need that protection.

I know, I'm just curious how you quantify that in your model.

I mean, for us you're underwriting to as much information as you have, right? And you're taking all that like data that's out there in the marketplace and understanding that nothing's gonna be perfect but It's a portfolio, right? And some things are gonna win and some things are gonna lose.

I'm scared I'm I'm I'm nervous sided all the time about the future.

AI's scary.

Yeah.

But they have the I mean I guess foresight or or to to not release it and this is why Yeah.

Did you know that With with the exception of one person who was at Meta, all the other major founders all worked at the same lab at Google together.

Really? Yes. I did not know that.

That's wild. They all worked on the same project at Google X Google X. Wow. I want you to like wrap your brain around that.

That's a lot of brain power.

That the original large language model was written to Google. The original paper was

Mm-hmm.

that was published and the speeches that were given afterwards that introduced the entire concept of LLNs was at Google.

Well.

And they they told the world about it. They didn't keep it to themselves. Yeah.

Sam Altman.

One of the major co-founders of Claude, who they they ended up being at OpenAI. Yeah.

Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi và hẹn gặp lại

One lab at Noodle and one paper.

哇 That's so impressive.

And it was only fourteen years ago.

Yeah. People talk about the PayPal mafia like

I'm Mafia. Yeah. This is different. Wow. Yeah. This is like And what if that doesn't happen? Like what if that paper never gets written, right? Like anyway, it's just it's wild to me.

Just how quick too. Like OpenAI just kind of hit the scene and then it was like everyone else popped up. Like within a year.

Because they were all at the same lab, they were all working together. Sam Alman didn't he wasn't unilaterally building this. Yeah. Yeah. And then some of them joined him. I you know, it'd it would be real interesting, you know, the the results I have not seen them yet because I don't think they've ruled on the lawsuit Elon against OpenA.

Yeah.

But that's gonna be a pretty monumental has the potential to be monument. Yeah, had to be monumental. Yeah. Now I personally am a claw fanatic. Um

I think that

The the way they approach things is is amazing. Yeah.

Um we were a big uh open AI company and now I think we're using more Gemini than anything. And then but like our engineers use everything. Like they use all Yeah.

Yeah, for data y you have to abide by customer restrictions on yeah. Well, you can do their data with their data. Mm-hmm Well this was a cool conversation. Uh I appreciate you I appreciate your background. I appreciate your passion for insurance technology.

Thank you.

Parametric sounds like a great company.

Yeah, it's great.

And and um I'm really excited to see what you guys do. And uh when you get a submission across the desk of one of your underwriters, it's and it says JBK. Uh just take it. Take a favorable look at it. Yeah.

Send me a note, I'll make sure they they do it.

I got it. Yeah. Uh for all my listeners out there and listening around, this is a live interview. Uh we do these every so often. Um this is a live interview with Rick Wong from Parametrics Insurance. Thank you for tuning in. Enjoy the ride and geek out. See you next time.

The Insert Geek Podcast is a very important thing.

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