Aloha Inspired Money Maker welcome back to Inspired Money, where we explore how to make more, give more, and live more. Today's guest is someone I've been following for a long time, Pat Flynn. I've been a listener of smart Passive income for years and actually had the chance to meet with Pat briefly once at Fincon in Dallas. That was way back in 2017, just a month after I launched this show. Pat's interviews and insights have always inspired me, especially all the creative ways people build
passive income streams and fun fact. My webcam right now is sitting on a Switchpod, a product that Pat co created with Caleb Wojcick, and I use it every day. I've admired Pat not just as a podcaster and a teacher, but as a doer. Since he's built businesses, launched digital products and courses, he runs a thriving membership community and continues to experiment with YouTube channels and live events. He sits on the boards of several companies. Clearly someone who does. Who does not
just talk the talk. He's walking, if not running. It's easy to look at Pat from a distance and only see the highlight reel of his many successes. But I hope today he'll share with us not just the wins, but also the struggles and failures that have helped shape his journey along the way. Today, I'm thrilled to speak with Pat about his latest book, Lean how to Achieve More by Learning Less. In this conversation, we'll explore what stops people from taking action, how we can break
through that resistance to start building momentum. Because at the end of the day, ideas are great, but action is what brings them to life. Before we start, a quick thank you to our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Seeking Alpha Premium, your go to resource for smarter investing decisions. I know a bunch of investors, retired industry professionals who subscribe to Seeking Alpha and they really enjoy its in depth stock analysis. Analysis or analyses? I'll say analyses.
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What's up, Andy? Hey, thanks for having me today. It's so good to have you on Inspired Money and to everybody out there, I suspect if you're with us, you know who Pat Flynn is. But I also have learned it's not good to make assumptions. So Pat is a serial entrepreneur, an author creator who inspires millions through his
podcast, YouTube channels and online communities. As the founder of SPI Smart Passive Income and co creator of the Switchpod, he helps people build meaningful businesses while embracing curiosity, community, and lifelong learning. Pat, how many books have you written today? So, including Lean Learning, which is coming out very soon, this will be book number four. However, it's my first traditionally published book, which has been a completely different
journey. And it's been a lot of fun with ups and downs like anything, but with a little bit of the traditional things behind it. I hope to have it reach even more people. It is my first book outside of the realm of entrepreneurship. My first three were mainly about entrepreneurship. This one has notes of that, but is also about education and just learning and self development in general. Yeah, I think that people are really going to
enjoy this one. I think it applies and resonates with so many of us because there are elements of Imposter Syndrome. There are elements of living in this digitally connected world where there's so much information that it can be paralyzing. Yeah, I mean, we used to live in a world. I mean, when you and I, you had mentioned Fincon back in 2017, even around then, information was still somewhat scarce. Right. People would show up as creators
and they had value in knowing stuff that others didn't. And now today, you know, in 2025, there's so much information, we're just getting overloaded. We're no longer sort of picking at information as consumers. We're at a buffet and we're getting so full from all the plates that we're filling up. And not only that, of course, the platforms we're on
are force feeding us stuff that we don't even know we need. So it's just really hard to navigate and understand well what is valuable and what is not. And do we need all of it? This is really what this book is about because. And I kind of wrote it for my kids too, who are entering adulthood soon. You know, they are entering a world that's different from ours when we grew up, where information isn't the valuable thing anymore. It's application.
It's how you find who to learn from and how you apply those things versus just like collecting. I mean, we become collectors and hoarders of information and it's just dragging us down. Yes, we are. I Am hoarding at my house and trying to declutter and I'm trying to eat less at the buffet. Hey, shout out to Junaid from Hacks and Hobbies, who Pat and I both know. Well, yes, I'm just going to address Inspired Money Maker. If you're joining us at YouTube, LinkedIn,
Live, Facebook, Instagram, wherever you may be. Hey, Angel Jones, too. Drop a message in the chat to let us know where you're tuning in from. Get ready to turn your world upside down with Pat in the best way possible. And let's roll segment one and jump right in. In a world where things are constantly changing, the need to stay relevant is greater than ever. But in this ever changing landscape of increasing technology and connectivity, there lies a hidden opportunity.
Instead of getting bogged down by all the content that wants to consume us, we can instead put it to good use. Most people think it takes thousands of hours or an entire lifetime to become an expert. But the truth is that mastery is just the process of taking the next right step at just the right time and letting those small wins build. Because that's what leads to the next opportunity where you'll learn even more, and the one after that, and the next, and so
on. Lean learning equips us with the skills that not only make us valuable, but also ensure our lives are imbued with purpose. It's not just about speeding up the learning process. It's about enriching our lives with purpose and meaning, getting us to that feeling and reality of a purposeful life faster. So that was an excerpt from Pat's book. Pat, you've said that information without action is waste. Can you take us back to a moment in your life when you realized that you were consuming
too much and not doing enough? Yeah. So I'll take you back to 2011. 2012. I just started my podcast, and I was obsessed with podcasts. And you could tell because when you would check my phone and look at my podcast playlist, I was subscribed to over 50, 40 different podcasts. And like many people, we want to try to consume all of that information. So 40 different shows, from health to wellness to finance, and of course, entrepreneurship. I felt like if I missed an episode, I
might have missed out on the next big thing. You know, that golden nugget that I needed. But the truth was, I didn't need all of that information. And what it was doing was it was making me feel like I was making progress without actually making progress. Right. The learning was discovered
disguising the actual doing. So I Eventually had to unsubscribe from everything, which is something I talk about in the book, and almost kind of like start fresh again and only allow that what is useful to then enter my life in my brain so that I can then apply it. Right. Because the more stuff. And like, the hard thing about today especially is if you're an entrepreneur, you get inspired really easily. So the more things that you're connected to, the more information
you're absorbing, the more inspired you'll be. And you might think, well, isn't that a good thing? Well, not really. If you're inspired over here and then the next day you're inspired over there, and then the next day over here and the next day over there, and we're just kind of like bumbling around all these different things versus what would happen if we had focused inspiration on that one thing and gave it at least an amount of time to have a chance to
do something like all these other things that we would want to do, too. And it's this idea of the difference between just in case learning, which is what most of us fall into that trap. Just learning just in case we need something, versus what I like to call just in time, information, the thing that is relevant to the next thing that we're doing, because nothing else really matters after that. I think we've been conditioned to try to figure out the whole
process first before taking any action. And my thesis here is, no, let's figure out the next step. I mean, know where you want to go, sure, but you don't need to know the exact pathway there. Just know your next step. Do that, and then you'll figure it out. For example, you had mentioned the switchpod, our invention that Caleb and I made. We didn't know how to make and manufacture a product. We had never done that before.
But we knew the first step was to create something that actually people wanted. And it just had to have the right shape. So we cut it out out of cardboard. We went to YouTuber events and just let people hold it. And that's what gave us a green light to move on to the next step, which was, okay, well, how do we 3D print this thing? We've never done that before. Okay, let's find a resource and someone who's done this before and ask them, cool, we got a 3D printer and let's do this thing and see
if it moves. And all the way up to marketing and Kickstarter. We had never run a Kickstarter campaign before, but when it was time to sell this thing, okay, let's find somebody who's mastered Kickstarter. We went to an event that had somebody who was keynoting who had Kickstarted a physical product. So we got in the same
room with them, we started chatting with them, building a relationship with them. Learned so much in such a short period of time that we were able to go from concept in 2017 to selling this thing in 2019. In February of 2019, we launched it on Kickstarter. We had over 4800 backers and had generated $415,000 in 60 days. And again, we had never, never done anything like that before. But we were learning
as we were going instead of learning everything. And then, you know, I feel like if we learned everything that we needed to do and then decided to go forward, we would have. We would have just been like, no, this is too much like, I'm. I'm overwhelmed. It's an incredible success story. When trying to, I guess, make a differentiation between just in case versus just in time, you know, being like, too overly focused on trying to learn versus just going forward and taking action. Even if it's
something that you've never done before. You recommend asking yourself the question, if this were easy, what would it look like? That's a question that's really important to me in my life. It was offered to me by Tim Ferriss, and as somebody who is a hoarder of content, or previously was somebody who gets inspired by other things very easily and wants to do a lot of things. I had spoken to Tim and he had asked me this question that he's talked about many times before
on his show, and is, if this were easy, what would it look like? And it's such a valuable question because we tend to overcomplicate things. When I was writing my first ebook, technically, I've written five books, if you count my architectural study guide, in fact. But when I was writing that guide, I had never published a book before, and I was thinking about, okay, well, I'm going to get bogged down if I think about, okay, how do I market this? How do I
format it? How do I make it look good? I didn't know how to do any of that stuff. My only next step that I needed to know was, how do I write a good study guide? And I'm just going to use Microsoft Word to do it. Which is exactly what I did. And going back to Tim's question, if this were easy, what would it look like? I would just write on something
I knew how to write. Already, which was Microsoft Word. And then from there it was okay, once I have this book, which by the way lit a fire under me because I had this thing ready to sell and it drove me to find out what the next steps were, which were okay, well, let's get this on my website, my architecture website. If this were easy, what would it look like?
Would I hire a sales team? Would I do phone calls and all these other things that are just overwhelming out of my comfort zone and complicated, or could I just stick a button on my website and go from there? Well, that's exactly what I did. Eventually I learned certain web pages were more popular than others for where to put these buy now
buttons. And lo and behold, in that first month that I launched my very first business in 2008, which was again a study guide for architects, I had made $7,805 that month just from a PayPal button on that website. Later I added all those more complicated automations and other things to kind of fine tune it. But it got me started, it got me excited, it got me some small wins that I can then move to get that momentum forward into more complicated things
later. You have a very well developed, well developed team and corporate structure to your business. So it's not a matter of not planning, right? Like you can plan, but also be forcing yourself to be focused on just in time and not getting bogged down, right? I mean, where do you want your resources to go on stuff that is going to help you get to the next level, or stuff that is on level 10 and 12 that aren't just going to really help you right now? You can
always put those things away for later, I like to call it. You know, there's this thing called Jomo. You know how there's fear of missing out, which is a big reason why we consume things. There's Jomo, which is joy of missing out, which I don't believe in as well, because who like wants to pretend that they're happy that they're missing out on stuff? I call it the joy of opting out. The actual act of
saying yes. I see that there and I do want that. But no, I'm going to commit to this thing that I've already said yes to. That is the joy of opting out. Not missing out, but opting out. Because that reconfirms the, the yes that you've said yes to before versus just adding more yeses. And then all of a sudden things are getting confusing. So that's the process for me in terms of
new information. Now, I will say that there's a little trick that you can do because many people will still not want to. Many people worry that that tweet, that article, that video, that podcast episode is the next is the thing that they need later. And so what I recommend doing is okay, if you see that you have a drive to consume something that isn't related to your next step, let's put it aside, put it
in a shoebox or put it in an Evernote folder or Notion folder, right? And you can go back to it later 99% of the time. You never go back to it, but it simply just gives you permission to move into the thing that you should be moving into. And just in case, if you need that later, which again, you don't ever really need to go back to. And by then there'll likely be better information. So we learn to declutter our lives in our learning and material objects. Let's go to segment
two. If I were to go back in time and teach something to my younger self to set myself up for success, I would tell myself two things. First, that saggy jeans will eventually go out of style, so I might as well stop now. And second, I'd have an honest conversation with young Pat about fear. Fear kept me from embracing many opportunities and potential life experiences, not only during my teenage years and college days, but also deep into my career as
an architect. There's a 99.99% chance that if I hadn't been laid off in 2008, I would never have ventured into business and entrepreneurship. It wasn't a lack of curiosity that held me back, but rather the fear of failure and concern over what others might think that outweighed the opportunities before me. Fear manifests in various subtle forms, often masquerading as rational excuses or delays in action. Recognizing these symptoms is the first step in overcoming them.
Pat to me, lean learning is very much a mindset, and this is a case where you have to get out of your own way. You can't be. Well, you can be your worst, your own worst enemy, and you're trying to find a solution for that. Yes. You write a formula, right? I mean, there is, there are formulas in here, but it's, it's more of, like you said, a lifestyle change, even a mindset shift, like becoming a lean learner in the way that you approach things and the way that you deal with, like
in that segment, fear. The baggy jeans thing is just a little inside joke with me and my family, because I used to Wear Jinko jeans. Like, you know, the big jeans that you couldn't even see your shoes in. Like, I used to wear this. It was a bad decision, but also just fear, fear of failure. I used to come home from school with a 95% on a math test, right? And my parents would be like, well, what happened to the other 5%? So I thought that the 95% wasn't good enough.
I had to be perfect every single time. So I feared any sort of mistakes. And if you are going through life, especially as an entrepreneur or somebody, you're dealing with money, you're trying to, like, make a living of any kind. If you live in that fear, you're always going to play it safe. And unfortunately, we are at a point now where if you're just playing it safe, you're going to blend in. You're never going to stand out. You have to take
some risks. But these are calculated risks, and these are risks where. There's other parts of the book that I'm sure we're going to get into about mentorships and community that will help alleviate some of that and help give you inspiration and accountability amongst that risk. But the failure is actually a part of the process. I've learned it's not, in fact,
bad to fail. I'd rather fail faster. When building the switchpod, building it at the wrong size really quickly out of cardboard showed me that it shouldn't be that big and it's too hefty. So great, I failed. Does that mean I give up? No, it just means I cut it out a different shape and try again. It's like fishing. I'm a big
fisherman. I love to go fishing. Imagine having the right bait on a boat and you're casting it right into the water at the perfect spot next to that rock, and you're giving it the best presentation. You're jerking it just a little bit so it gets that perfect motion for that fish and you don't get a bite. What do you do? You just go home and pack it up? No, you cast again and you try a little bit different. Maybe you cast to the other side
of the rock. Maybe you put on a different bait because maybe the water is a little murky. Whatever it might be, you learn these things over time. But again, what most people do is they'll plan everything out, cast once, and then pack it up. That's. That's not how you figure things out. That's not how you become an expert. That's not how you enjoy life. You enjoy life through the failures and understanding so that you can navigate toward that direction you want to go to, not away from
failure. I find that if you really dig deep into it and analyze yourself and your feelings and what your fears are, I find that a lot of the time, the procrastination is sometimes just delaying because you're afraid to fail. You're afraid of what people will think. Have you found that through entrepreneurship, through experimenting, through trying different things and embracing failure as part of the learning process, that you care less about what people
think? That's a good question. You know, I don't necessarily care less about what people think, but I care think about it a little differently. Whereas when people would see me fail, I would worry that they would look down on me, see me as a failure, would think I wasn't good enough. These are all just conditions that I've learned to grow up with. In the school that I was in and being very tiny, very small kid, I was bullied a lot. So I was always one to try to
blend in, not stand out, right? So I didn't want to make mistakes. And, you know, trying to be perfect was the only thing I had going for me. And eventually I joined the marching band, which is where I blended in with all the other people who were often picked on and bullied. So that's where I found refuge. But over time, you know, I don't not care about what people
think, but I respond to it differently. If people see me fail, this is an opportunity to see that I'm still working hard enough to get out of that and try to find a solution. If people see me stumble, it could be, in a way, inspiring to people because they can see, oh, they're stumbling too, just like I do. And maybe together we can get through this, which is where the mentorship and the sort of camaraderie comes
in in anybody's learning process. So, no, I never not think about what people are thinking about me, but I respond to it differently now. Now there's of course going to be haters and trolls that show up, especially when you put yourself out there online. And those are just different stories and different things that come with that territory, which is why it's important to find those who can support you. But that often is a result of something going on in their lives, right? Hurt
people, hurt people is what I've learned. But we can hurt ourselves in a way where we can get in our own way, like you said before, and that procrastination is just a symptom. We have to figure out what these symptoms are so that we can actually understand them and then know how to deal with them, right? So procrastination, the more you put something aside, oftentimes it's the bigger deal that
thing is, and we are just avoiding the hard things. Whereas if you tackle it head on, with the right support, with the right information, understanding that the failing part of that process is you learning, then you're going to be more likely to not just do those things, but get through those things much faster and with support. Another symptom of failure and that fear is trying new things, right, to stay busy on other things to kind of distract us from those things that might
be more difficult. And we see this often with entrepreneurs in the first six months of their business. They're excited. They have that honeymoon period. The what if, what if this is amazing. What if this works? What if this is going to blow up? But the what ifs start to transition around month six and they turn into, what if I was wasting my time? What if this fails? What if I look bad?
What if I'm not good enough? Right? That's that imposter syndrome starts to kick in, which is again, another symptom of that fear. But this is why, again, that support system is key. Understanding the purpose of failure and the mistakes are the roadmap, right? The mistakes you make do tell you which direction to go next. As a mentor and a parent, how. How have you been able to impart those lessons on reframing fear to your children? You know,
I could say these things all day. I can come up with any fancy quotes that I want. It always has been done through example. And that's something I've always done ever since I started my business and started teaching it. I didn't want to teach it through talking about it. I wanted to teach it by showing. And part of that showing is showing the failures and the stuff that
I did incorrectly. And I do the same thing with my kids. I think one thing that was important to me and, you know, no offense to my parents, I love my parents and they're amazing, but they never admitted when they did things wrong, right? And again, that led itself to,
well, they must be perfect and I have to be perfect too. Versus if they had maybe owned up to more of their mistakes or had shown more vulnerability and the things they were trying to do and kind of taking me along that lesson, ride with them, then, you know, we could have had maybe even a stronger relationship than we do today. So that's something that I want to implore to my kids is like, I'm not perfect, but I'm learning. And
I'm also somebody who could learn from you. When my kids would come home from school at a very young age, you know, very common question to ask your kids is, what'd you do in school today? Or how was school today? Never ask that. I hated that question because of course you always get the same answer, fine or nothing. Or, you know, same old. Rather, I would
ask questions like, well, what did you learn that you could teach me today? And even though I knew most of those things, to see my kids light up in the way that they teach and to see that, you know, I can still learn something from them and that I'm open to that is great. This is how the world should work. We can, we can all be here to serve and help one another. So those are ways that I try to teach my kids. It's through actually doing versus
talking. I love that question. I will start using that tomorrow. Let's go to the next segment. Being part of a supportive community not only means you have others to lean on, but also that you have the opportunity to support others in return. This mutual exchange enriches the learning experience and amplifies the impact of the community. Each member, by supporting others, learns not only about their own capabilities, but also about the power of empathy and
encouragement. Frankly, our society has strayed too far from these communal interactions which historically formed the bedrock of learning and development. We've isolated ourselves glorifying solo achievements while neglecting the profound benefits of collective growth. It's time we return to our roots, re embracing the communal ethos that empowers everyone to not just succeed alone, but thrive together. So as you navigate your own challenges and successes, consider how you can also be a
champion for others. Whether it's offering a word of encouragement, sharing a valuable resource, or simply listening to someone's concerns, you're at actions can help propel someone else forward. This reciprocal relationship doesn't just strengthen others, it also deepens your own understanding and enhances your journey. Pat, I like this one because when we read about Blue Zones, community plays an important role in longevity. Here you're talking about it being a bedrock of learning and
development. Can you describe a moment when someone in your community lifted you up or helped you to see something that you didn't see on your own? Oh yeah. I mean, we could talk for hours about this. I had seen a quote on your channel. In fact, it was the idea of communities being co
evolution engines and I love that. And so I think we're on the same wavelength there as far as the importance of togetherness and bringing multiple people together to support one another and support our own communities and do something much larger. This is that part of the book where it's not just about the learning, right? It's about the more worldly view and the things that we could do beyond just ourselves. And that's so important. I mean, the one that comes
to mind. The story that comes to mind is. Is from a listener of mine, a fan, who had at one point gotten into a very bad ski accident. And this is how they found my podcast. They actually found my show while on a bed with two broken legs. And I didn't know about any of this until I had gotten an email from them at one point. And this was in 2011. I was very much close to quitting my podcast because it just wasn't really feeling like it
was growing or going anywhere. I was putting more time into my blog, and the podcast was just starting out at the time, so I was taking a lot of time. I was editing everything myself until I got this email from this person who shared this horrific story with me, but said that he was, as a result of, able to listen. After listening to my podcast and creating really big goals for himself, he was able to work his way back into not just walking and jogging again,
but actually running. And he started running, and he had a goal for himself that he set while on his bed, while listening to my show, which was to run a marathon, which is. Which is admirable, especially when you aren't able to walk. And at the end of this email, there was an image of him crossing the finishing line of the Warsaw in Poland marathon, holding a sign up, and it was in Polish. So he translated for me, and it said, thank you to God. Thank you to his kids. And right there
at the end, it said, thank you, Pat Flynn. And this person sent this email because he felt that my energy on the show was. Was losing, that I just wasn't in it anymore. Like, I was in the very beginning again, that honeymoon period, I was kind of in that just kind of going through the motions phase. And
this email lit a fire under me. And this person didn't have to do this, but he also taught me that there are many other people who are probably going through stuff that I will never hear from, and I have to keep going for them. So now we're 860 some odd episodes into smart, passive
income across 15 years now. And it's been amazing. And I don't plan on stopping, but that was a moment when I had a person who championed me and what I was doing and really wanted it to succeed and gave me a story to help me remind myself about the why behind it all. From real marathon to your podcasting marathon. That's right. So you run a community for somebody who's operating solo. Like, what's the first step you'd recommend for them to start building or joining a meaningful community?
Yeah, ask around is the first thing. I mean, again, if this were easy, what would it look like you would find somebody near you or somebody you already know who is involved with, a thing that you might be interested in? Again, it depends on what it is you're interested in. But there are communities everywhere, from Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, and these are online communities to meetup.com in places like where you can start online but then meet in
person. There might be some local groups. Ask around in your church, in your community. That's the easiest way to just get to know who's there, because that's ultimately the goal here, is just who else is here into the same things that I am. And when you do that, it's just incredible what can happen when you connect with one another. And it could be just at a more friendly and colleague level. It could turn into something that's more of a partnership. And who
knows? And in our community, we see it all the time, and Junaid knows this. People are connecting and forming podcast episodes together, businesses together, simply as a result of being in the same room with other people who share the same values and goals. And like in the segment said, we're just kind of losing that touch now with.
With. With other people. Right. We're. We're so into what are our goals and how do we share those, these goals with others, but not in a communal way, but more in a look at how good I am kind of way. I think we need to get back to our roots. And when you think about it, before the Internet, before anything, when. When humans were just coming about how were. How were things spread, how were communities formed just through storytelling, through conversation, through being in person with
people. And I'm seeing this as somebody who creates events now myself, we're seeing a big push, a big want and need from people to connect in person and to be around one another and to kind of go back to how it was before the Internet days. I think that's kind of maybe the benefit of people who are of my age and millennials. We grew up before the Internet, but then we grew up with the Internet and we can kind of see the pros and
cons of each side. But you know, I think we have an opportunity to go back to maybe a happy medium where we are still online and we are still using the Internet. We are controlling the intake and not having junk inspirations come our way or what I like to call junk sparks get in our way and remove our focus. But being together with other people is just going to bring a whole new level of energy and light and honestly, just joy to life. Again, great advice. Let's go to segment four.
Would I be able to learn new things faster if I purposefully put myself in higher pressure situations? That question is the essence of this chapter. I practice what I like to call voluntary force functions. By deliberately placing myself in challenging circumstances, circumstances that require me to step up, I increase the likelihood that I will follow through on my commitment and achieve my goals. These chosen environments cast catalyze rapid learning
and personal growth. They are incredibly powerful when it comes to lean learning. So powerful in fact that voluntary force functions have become my go to hack for speedrunning skill acquisition. That's gamer speak by the way. Speedrunning is the process of racing through a game as quickly as possible
so that you can get to the end in record time. When we choose to opt into situations where we have to do the thing instead of just waiting around for it, we can harness a temporary and strategic stressor for life changing transformation. This is about stepping into growth deliberately. It's about moving from being a passive participant in your life to an active architect of your own development. Pat, I love this concept of voluntary force functions. This is tactical. I know that public speaking
was once a fear of yours. How did you use force function to conquer that fear? Yeah, I used to avoid every opportunity to speak on stage. When my business was blown up in 2010, 2011, I passed on every opportunity. Even though people had asked, even though I knew it was a good opportunity to get in front of people, to build more authority to increase revenue. I said no because I
was definitely afraid of it. But it wasn't until my friend PT or Philip Taylor, who founded an event called FinCon at the end of 2011. He'd asked me and he was a friend, he was really needing some help and I said yes, knowing that that would force me to do the thing. Now I didn't know, but this was this. I was going to have a little bit more pressure because two weeks before the event, the closing keynote of this entire event dropped out and Philip asked Me to fill in. So what did this do? This
really put something at stake for me. It stressed me out, I'm not going to lie. But it also forced me to find the right information that I needed right then. And I found a book called Stand and Deliver by Dale Carnegie, which was the best book I've ever read about speaking. That was my sort of go to beginning book to learn how to start. There were a million books. Should I consume them all? No, I didn't have the time. I was forced to make a decision on
who to learn from, where to learn, and actually take action on things. Again, if this were easy, what would it look like? Well, I would talk about a topic that everybody was interested in. What does every blogger want to know about? How to stand out. Okay, I know how to do that so I can talk about that again. I didn't force that. I just asked that question. If this were easy, what would it look like? Always guiding me along the way. And
lo and behold, I did that presentation. It wasn't the best. Again, I failed at certain parts. There were certain parts that I forgot I had stumbled my words here and there, but I did it. And it was good enough for me to move on to the next one and then the next one and then the next one. And now I've spoken over 360 times and I've gotten paid over six figures to be able to do this now. Something that I was deathly afraid to do because I put myself in that situation. You know, there
was something at stake there. A lot of times we go through life and we have involuntary force functions when we're put in a situation to make things happen. Like when I got laid off, I didn't want to move back in with my parents, even though I did and wanted to move out as quickly as I could. I didn't volunteer to do all that, but it made me and forced me to take actions that I wouldn't have taken otherwise. Right. So we can put ourselves in these a little bit higher stressor situations. Right.
You still want to be safe, but a little bit of risk goes a long way in helping us cut through the noise, finally take action and go do the things. Go learn the right things. Not waste any time because there is an impending deadline or something that's about to happen. Tim Ferriss was somebody who kind of inspired a lot of this chapter about voluntary force functions. He had a series on Apple at one point. It was a video
series. I don't know if you remember this, but he was doing these things where he was trying to learn things quickly, and he was trying to learn Tagalog, which is the Filipino language. And I'm half Filipino myself, so I was like, I have to watch. This is super interesting. So instead of trying to learn every word and every sentence, he put himself in a situation where he just needed to know the base amount of information
to perform well. Perform well in what? He had an interview on a Filipino news station coming up, like, I think a month from that point. And that was his voluntary force function. A date and time and place where he needed to show up. And he did. He did pretty good. Was he fluent? No. But he was on his way if he wanted to continue because he put himself in that situation. I know that Tim. He likes languages. I never saw that episode.
I watched the drumming one where he. Had to learn how to same, same. Series, be a rock drummer, like in a week or something. How do you know when you're pushing yourself in a healthy way versus heading toward burnout? Is that a delicate balance? Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of times these things are hidden in different kinds of ways. Right. Of course,
health wise, you can begin to understand and see what's working or what's not. I know a lot of entrepreneurs who push themselves to the brink, where some of my friends have ended up in the hospital because they've burned out too much, because they were into the hustle and the hustle and trying to do too much. I mean, there is a line, for sure. This is why I think the communal part's really important, because you can't read the label often when you're inside the
bottle. So having some outside perspectives. And this is where I connect with a mastermind group every single week to just kind of help me see things that I might not see. They're able to call things out before they, you know, become dangerous. So that's. That's sort of strategy number one. Another thing is to, you know, pay attention to where your time is being
spent. I think a lot of us can go through the motions and kind of get put on autopilot, but when you zoom out every once in a while and kind of, like, take, like, step out of yourself for a second. Okay, let's do a little audit. Where's my time going? How is my energy? Where am I feeling pulled or where am I getting compelled to go? Just a little audit with yourself is really important. I call it a WI fi in the book. A why?
Focused introspection. Because if you don't have WI fi, you're going to Lag. That's the dad joke. There's a lot of dad jokes that make their way throughout this book. There's even more in the audiobook, by the way. I just finished my audiobook recording and I added a lot of ad lib stories and some of the stories include more jokes. But anyway, it's just part of who I am. I am me. But yeah, those are just a few things that you can do to make sure that you don't push yourself too far over
the edge. And again, if you have a mentor or somebody that you're learning from, having guidance along the way can be key. You know, the coach to help you there or the, you know, when I was learning how to do triathlons and swim, I hated swimming, but I knew I had to swim for a triathlon. It was a big sort of life goal of mine. I hired a
coach, his name is Jeff, and I still work with him today. And he helped me just make sure that I wasn't being unsafe and that I could know strength train properly without breaking myself and also, you know, swim and do it in a way where I wasn't going to drown. So was really thankful for that. And a lot of times we need a person or a coach or a guide to help us stay safe along the way.
I hear that having a date, either setting it yourself or having an event date or something that's happening that's forced upon you, that's critical. You also mentioned that sharing goals with somebody that you respect instead of just broadcasting a goal that you're, that you're going after, say on social media for the purpose of accountability, why is engaging someone that you respect and sharing that with them, why is that more effective
and how has it worked for you? Yeah, sharing goals has evolved in a very interesting way. In the beginning, especially when social media came out, it was like, okay, I'm going to share my goals so I can be held accountable
by this faceless community of mine, Right? And what happens is you almost get the feeling like you've already accomplished the thing before you even start because you're getting a lot of, and especially if it's your own community, a lot of, like, you got this, you're gonna do it like you did it. Like, I believe in you and those are important. But also they can kind of blur lines between like actually doing the thing and, you know, you know, not starting at
all. So that's, I think Derek Sivers said that in a TED Talk once and it kind of hit me hard because I used to share my goals all the time. But then this study came out from University of Ohio that basically said, like, sharing your goals can work, but it depends on who you share it with. If you just share it like with a community and a crowd, then yeah, you're going to get these feelings like you finish, because people will kind of root for you for
that. But if you share it with somebody who is more of a mentor or a guide, then you're actually going to be held accountable for that because they're going to check in with you and they're going to actually want to make sure you succeed and do the thing. So when you share it, a goal with somebody who you respect, somebody who you admire, then you're more likely to follow through than if you were to just kind of blanket share at all or not share
it at all. So that's, that's kind of what the study says. And I found that to be true. Very much so. Great advice and a shout out to Derek Sivers, who I also love his writings. Everyone can check out his interview on Inspired Money, episode 142. Let's bring it home with the final segment. This book is a prime example of the transformative power of teaching. The process of writing has forced me to extract and articulate the concepts I've lived and practiced in a more thorough and
intentional way. By committing to sharing my knowledge with you, I've gained a deeper understanding of the Lean Learning framework and discovered new insights and connections that I hadn't fully appreciated before. Teaching others also opens up a world of opportunities for personal and professional growth. It allows you to establish yourself as a thought leader in your field and make a
positive impact on the lives of others. Sharing your knowledge helps to build meaningful relationships from the students you serve to the partners you collaborate with, many who could potentially become lifelong friends. When sharing happens, we create a ripple effect that extends far beyond our immediate circle of influence. And in my humble opinion, this is what we need more of in the world. When everybody shares, everybody wins.
Pat, this one's interesting and I think this is a good way to wrap up this conversation about your book. I occasionally play Hawaiian music for fun. I play guitar, I play ukulele, and I've been very fortunate to have been blessed to play with musicians that are way better than me. Guys, you know, men and women who are on tour from Hawaii playing Hawaiian music and I get to invited to play with them. Wow. And I was asked this question back in March. There were a couple of ukulele
virtuosos who stayed at my house. And one of them asked me, andy, are you teaching? Are you teaching ukulele? And I said, no, I'm not. I feel like I barely know how to play my instrument next to those guys. Right. That's how I feel. How has sharing your knowledge open unexpected doors or relationships in your career? And I'm assuming that you would encourage me. I should teach
ukulele. Teach what I know. When you teach what you know, and the reason why a lot of people don't do it and the reason why you probably didn't do is because, like, how can you feel qualified to do it when you're still in the learning process? We often feel we have to have, you know, a degree or a PhD or something like that to feel qualified to teach. But the truth is, you just need to be a few steps ahead of somebody else to still be able to provide value.
I remember, and this story wasn't in the book, but I remember my son struggling to learn to swim. And we worked with him for a couple summers taking lessons and stuff. And when he finally learned from a guide, right, we got a swimming coach. He lit up. He was absolutely. I mean, we were so happy because we didn't have to worry about him anymore in the pool. And he loves the water. He just didn't know how to swim.
So that unlocked something huge for him. And that same summer he learned how to swim, he came in with a bunch of friends, and some of those friends didn't know how to swim. But you know what? He lit up and tried to teach them how to swim. And as a result, he gained even more confidence, more confidence in what he had just accomplished. We kind of welcomed that. Now, there's a line there, obviously, because we don't want him or anybody teaching to say, look at how much better I am than you than
for this thing. Like, I'm so much better than you. I'm going to teach you how to be better. Like me, rather, hey, here's what I've learned and here's how I can help you. And I think that just, again, makes the world a much, much better place. And I've even in that example that you shared with the clip, Lean learning has been something I've been
living for the last 15, 16, 17 years. But I never knew how to actually share these things and extrapolate the learnings into something that was cohesive with frameworks that then others could learn from. But the force function of number one, the book with a deadline for my publisher, forced me to figure that out. And by teaching this stuff now, I'm actually internalizing it even better. I now have a language around what it is that I'm doing that I can then share with others. And
communally, we can lean learn together. We can all be lean learners in this world and have that common knowledge. It's very similar to what I've learned about the Enneagram scale, about why I do what I do and who I am as a person. And when my wife and I both learned about the enneagram. I'm an enneagram 3, by the way. My wife is a 6. And those have different meanings. And there, there are ways to
learn about those people and who they are as a result. And again, having that common language is allowed for my wife and I just to have a much, much better relationship because it helps us just both understand each other better. And hopefully this book, Lean Learning and those who read it and enjoy it, but not only that, but also take action as a result of that
and have more adventures because of it. I hope this really becomes a starting point in a pivot point in the world to help us get back to some of those roots and some of those things that were once a part of who we were and that we've kind of lost. So I think if we all show up and teach others, we can all be that much better, and that's really what this is about.
Well, thank you, Pat. I love that idea. And just as a side note, there was a church auction recently as a fundraiser, and people were donating all kinds of things. I did decide to donate, like, two hours of ukulele lessons and was surprised at there was demand for that. And I look forward to working with the winner of that auction. So I'll wet my, you know, teaching, wet my teaching whistle and see how it goes. I'm sure that I will learn a lot
just going through that process. So a big thank you to Pat Flynn for being so open with his stories and his insights. For me, the biggest takeaway is this. We don't need more information. We need more implementation. Pat reminded us that learning can actually become a crutch if we're not careful. It feels productive to do research, to watch tutorials, to subscribe to all the podcasts. But real progress only comes when we take action, especially
imperfect action. So here's my challenge for inspired money makers this week. Pick one area in your life or work where you've been learning, researching, or planning, and just take one small action. It could be launching a project, making the first call, or sharing your idea with someone that you trust. Don't overthink it. Just move forward. And if this episode sparked something in you, let us know in the comments or tag us online. I'd love to hear what you're
working on. A shout out to the Inspired Money production team. Excellent segment edits and planning with Bradley John, Eagle Feather, our producer and graphic animations by Chad Lawrence. Finally, let's thank Pat once again. You can find more about Pat -- father, husband, and lifelong learner from San Diego. His new book "Lean Learning," Pat, that comes out June 3rd? June 3rd, yes. Available for pre order now though of course,
if you are watching this ahead of time. Thank you. Pre order. I think you can do that at leanlearningbook.com, correct? You can also find Pat at Smartpassiveincome.com and I think PatFlynn.com. Is that right? Pat Flynn.com is another one. Yes, there's a lot of things. Well, thank you Pat. Appreciate you being a part of the Inspired Money experience. And Inspired Money maker, thank you for joining us today. Don't miss our panel live stream this Wednesday. That's April
23rd. "Fine Wine Regions to Discover in Retirement: Voyage into Viniculture." That's at 1pm Eastern. Until then, do something that scares you because that's where the magic happens. Thanks everybody.