Aloha, inspired money maker. Welcome to another episode of Inspired Money. This is actually episode 50 of our 100 episode season, and inspired money is the live stream podcast where we invite a panel to discuss investing, giving and lifestyle topics around money. Today, our topic is the future of retirement, navigating changing trends and new possibilities. And I did do a little bit of research. I took a look and found that in 1970, men on average retired at
66 and could expect to live another twelve years. In 2020. They retired at 64 and had 20 years ahead of them. It does beg the question when I did my research why women were not mentioned there. But women tend to live longer than men. So tack on a few more years. I think that the conclusion is that this is not your grandfather's or grandmother's retirement. We're already seeing baby boomers retirements differ from the generation before them. And imagine Gen X millennials, Gen Z
retirement could look radically different. But it can be difficult to see the change as it's happening. Just like it's difficult to see our kids growing. You know, it happens under the radar, but just like that, it happens. You know, your child can be taller than you and you're not sure when that took place. So the future of retirement has many implications. If we live longer, will we be forced to work longer? Will people have multiple careers and many
retirements? How will governments reform pension systems like Social Security without facing a revolt? Before we get into all that, this episode is brought to you by my financial advisory firm, Runnymede Capital Management. If you haven't yet plotted your financial goals and documented a financial plan, I invite you to do a three minute plan. You can go to inspiredmoney.fm/getplan, and I can tell you that a little planning goes a long way, and the earlier you start,
the better. So, inspiredmoney.fm/getplan and you can do a three minute plan. You and I can have a conversation, and I'm happy to point you in the right direction. Now, let's welcome in our panel of experts. We've had some changes this morning and some technical difficulties that we're still working through. Let me start by introducing Catherine Collinson. She's CEO and president of Transamerica Institute and
Transamerica center for Retirement Studies. With nearly three decades of expertise in retirement funds, financial security, and aging, she leads the research and outreach initiatives to improve retirement outcomes for at risk populations, especially women and small business employees. Catherine, welcome. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. We also haveMarci Alboher. Marci, I didn't ask you how to properly pronounce your last name. You did it. I did. Okay.
All right. Marci's vice president at Cogenerate and a leading expert on career transitions and intergenerational. Intergenerational collaboration. She's author of the Encore Career Handbook and one person, multiple careers. She has a background as a former columnist for the New York Times, and she's a frequent commentator on workplace trends in major media outlets. Welcome. I'm so glad that you can make it. And then we were supposed to have Dan Ariely here.
Unfortunately, he's traveling and his Internet connection was not that good. So we have Gary Brode stepping in at the 11th hour. He's founder of deep knowledge Investing. He's been on the podcast before. He's a seasoned securities industry professional with over 30 years experience, having served as managing partner and senior portfolio manager at Silver Arrow Investment Management, where he managed high alpha generating research driven hedge fund strategies. And, Gary, so glad
that you could make it at the last minute. Thanks, Sandy. I appreciate you having me back. Just sorry to miss Dan Ariely. I'm a huge fan of his work. I was excited to have Dan. He's enjoying gelato and pasta, I think, as we speak. We also have Aubrey de Grey in the house. He's trying to get his microphone going. Very excited
to have Aubrey here. He's a biomedical generontologist and founder of the Lev Foundation, a Silicon Valley based charity dedicated to repairing the molecular and cellular damage that causes aging. With a PhD in biology from the University of Cambridge, he's renowned as a speaker and visionary in the field of longevity science. Aubrey, do you have audio? He's working on it. Well, I'm so excited to have the panelists here. We're going to be talking about the
future of retirement. And let's get right into it. We're going to go to segment one. Starting early is key to a secure retirement, allowing individuals to leverage the power of compound interest. Small, consistent contributions to retirement accounts from a young age can grow significantly over time. Maximizing retirement accounts like 401 ks and iras are crucial, offering tax advantages and steady growth. Employer matching
contributions should be fully utilized. A diversified investment portfolio, adjusted regularly to match goals and risk tolerance helps manage risk and enhance returns. Younger people can afford more risk with stocks, while those nearing retirement should focus on preserving capital. Understanding Social
Security and Medicare are vital. Timing Social Security benefits strategically can maximize income, while timely Medicare enrollment and choosing the right coverage options such as Medigap or Medicare Advantage can help manage healthcare costs effectively. Early and informed retirement planning lays the groundwork for financial security and a comfortable future.
Catherine, if you can get us started with longer lifespans and increasing healthcare costs, what are key strategies that you recommend for ensuring financial security through retirement? One of the first things that we see in our research is many people do not yet have a financial strategy for retirement. So it starts with the very basics, having a vision of when and how you want to retire, looking at your savings and investments, doing some goal setting, and then
creating a roadmap to get there. The other thing that's very important in your plan, though, is to have contingency plans, because often life does not turn out the way we expect. That's for sure. And we're going to get into it today. Will the science give us even more surprises if suddenly people start living longer? Well, I'm optimistic about that. I'm looking at Aubrey. Hopefully, he'll be able to chime in. But the people have the potential to live longer than ever before.
And in our survey work, we see that people are already thinking on those terms, with a fair number already planning and expecting to live to 100 or older. And people are rethinking their time in the workforce relative to retirement because we've got to be able to finance those longer lives. Gary, if people eventually live well beyond 100 years, how should individuals and institutional investors rethink their investment strategies if retirement needs to last perhaps decades longer than
originally thought? Well, first of all, Andy, if we are going to be living into our hundreds, then retiring when we're 60 years old probably is going to be realistic. Now, you know, for people like us who have desk jobs or jobs where we're just working with our minds all the time, that's going to be easier. I think if you have a physical job, if you're working construction, that's going to be
hard to do into your eighties. And so the two things that I would suggest to people, one is to start to think about the amount of time that you have. And, you know, if you're expecting your retirement to last five years versus 25 years, a quarter of a century, your risk tolerance and your asset allocation has to change based on that. A lot of people when they retire, simply say,
well, I shouldn't be invested in equities, and that's fine, I understand that. But if your retirement timeframe is all of a sudden two, three decades, then you need to shift that. And the other thing that I would mention is I was on the phone last night. I called my dad. He's in his mid eighties. And I called him last night at about 08:00 just to say hi, see how he was doing, and he answered. He said, hey, listen, I don't have a lot of time to talk
right now. I'm still in the office. And that's okay. It's okay to think about working longer. And then I guess the final thing I would mention is I think it's important for people to educate themselves on finance. Most people don't get an education on how to balance their checkbook or how to think about stocks versus bonds. A lot of people are intimidated and don't even know what questions to ask a registered investment advisor. And that's not your
fault. You know, we don't teach that in school. We should, but we don't. Even though it's not your fault, it is your responsibility to do something about it. And, you know, I get that it can be intimidating for a lot of people, but there's a lot of financial education available, a lot of people who can help. And, you know, the sooner, the sooner you start to learn about that, I think the better off you're going to be, the better outcome you're going to
yet. Okay. I think we're going to check to see if Aubrey has audio. We're on the fly. Okay. While that's happening, I think, Marci, you have a thought? I do. I think I defer to all of you on the investment side of things, but I think one thing that people don't think about enough is that some of the ways we spend and the budgets we need have to do with what we expect in our housing. It's probably the biggest expense that most people have in their lives, especially as we
age. And our organization is really doing a lot of research on co living, especially intergenerational co living, as a way to not only save costs, and it certainly is obviously a way to save costs, but a way to build community. And I think sometimes we think of savings as kind of putting us in a scarcity mindset. And what if there are some ways where we could lower our expenses but increase our social connection, which we know is so crucial as we age?
Just want to throw that out there, that intergenerational, cohousing, roommates, all kinds of communal living are really an interesting area to explore. Marci, you talk a lot about finding second careers in retirement. How do you see retirees balancing the need for continued income versus pursuing new passions? Yeah, I mean, they don't have to be separated. Right. So I've been saying for ages the things we need at this life stage are purpose, passions and a paycheck.
And ideally, if you can, if you can find ways that you get those three things out of activities that give you joy and meaning and the social connection. Obviously that is the ideal situation. There are people who need to separate, right? Who do something for income, something for meaning, something for connection. But those extra years we've been talking about do not come with a prepaid gift card,
right? We all have to figure out how do we get the combination of things we need to keep us contributing, connected and fulfilled as we age and to match the income thing. So it's all about kind of thinking about these as
moving parts that you constantly need to tweak and adjust. Some of the work we do will build on the work we've done before, but it is really common to discover new passions, to go back to school, to get a new credential, to continue to learn if we're going to continue to contribute for another decade or two. Gary or Catherine, anything to add? I could not agree with Marci Moore and in longer lives and how we think about our time, especially as we may be transitioning out of the workforce.
It's so important to stay active and involved. And the good news is we see people with those intents, and every day there's more and more possibilities and new ways, new things to do, new ways to engage. So it's something that we all should keep our hearts and minds open and share the news with our friends. I think your panelists here are retirement enthusiasts or later in life enthusiasts, what we're going to do with this extra time. Not everybody is thinking that way yet,
so we've got to keep conversations going. It does require a change in thinking. I'm trying to see if Aubrey's devices are working or not. Unfortunately, we don't have audio. So with that, I think we're going to go to segment two. Retirement planning must adapt to the reality of longer lifespans, requiring strategies to ensure financial security over several decades. First, it's essential to estimate financial needs accurately, considering all potential expenses, including
housing, health care and daily living costs. Inflation protection is vital with investments that outpace inflation to preserve purchasing power. Planning for longevity risk means preparing for a lifespan beyond average expectations. Healthcare costs pose a significant challenge, making long term care insurance, supplemental Medicare coverage, and health savings accounts critical tools for managing expenses. Diversifying
income streams is equally important. Delaying Social Security, investing in annuities and maintaining a well balanced investment portfolio can provide steady income. Part time work also offers financial and social benefits by addressing these key areas, retirees can secure a financially stable and fulfilling retirement regardless of how long it lasts.
Catherine, if we're living longer and we have increasing healthcare costs, what strategies do you recommend to really ensure financial security throughout retirement? Well, one of the things that we see in the research that people can and should be doing is safeguarding their health throughout their lives. So not waiting until you get to be older and focus on it, but focus on it very early on
in life. And, you know, the basics, things like eating right, exercise, getting plenty of rest, managing stress, getting those healthcare screenings so that you can manage and maintain your health, because one that's going to help help you stay healthier and also potentially avoid healthcare costs down the road. One of the things that you touched on, or at least the video touched on that I consider to be still kind of underutilized, are health
savings accounts. They are a terrific way not only to save money on triple tax advantage that can help you save on your current healthcare expenses, but also those accounts can grow over time. You can contribute over the course of your working years, up until Medicare eligibility, and that can be a way to save for healthcare and long term care way down the road, if and when you need it. Yeah, the long term care is interesting, interesting play.
I'm just curious, like, if the landscape is evolving and lifespans are increasing, is that something that people have to worry about? It's something that, well, it's an opportunity, but there it also comes with some issues. And one of the things, of course, when we look at retirement fears, declining health is towards the top of the list, along with financial and Social Security related concerns and how not only the potential need for care,
but the cost of receiving such care. When we survey retirees, only about 14% are very confident that they would be able to afford long term care should they need it. The other thing that we see that is so critical is the need for family conversations, because we asked retirees, if you were to need care, where would you turn? And around half said family and friends, but presumably adult children are still in their working
years. They're saving for their own retirement. They may be still raising their families, and that could be a real added strain on them both if they have to make adjustments to their work situation or if they end up helping out financing part of that long term care. So it's just all critical to have family conversations and a plan for if and when that time comes. Marci, in your work, do you look at the social and psychological aspects of retirement in different stages of
life? We sure do. Right now, we are actually working on a big body of work around social isolation and loneliness, which we all know because of the surgeon general. Right. It is an epidemic in our country right now. And at all ages. The major tonic against social isolation and loneliness is really strong social connections. And we also know that when you retire, that is a critical time in life where people lose social connections, and that isolation and
loneliness directly translates into health impacts. It can affect mental health, depression, even physical health can be affected by social isolation and loneliness. One of the easiest things you can do is volunteer. And I kind of like the dirty little secret about volunteering is that the volunteering often helps the person volunteering as much as it helps the cause that you're volunteering for. We all know that to do good feels good. So there is this kind of interesting benefit that comes from
that. And the other really important thing is intergenerational relationships. The longest running study on adult satisfaction is the Harvard longevity study. And the biggest finding there is that the biggest factor on how we age is how strong our human relationships are. And the relationships with younger people are particularly important because it's where you invest in something that is going to outlive you. It's where you learn things that will help you
stay relevant. So there are particular kinds of connections that come through connecting with younger generations. And for people like me who don't have children of our own, you have to be intentional about those relationships. Like, are there people in your extended family or friend network? Are there mentees and younger friends? I'm a huge fan of intergenerational friendships for that reason.
That is great. Gary, I want to ask you, because you brought up on the investment side, things like owning more stocks, maybe taking more risk. So let's talk portfolio construction and asset allocation. If your investment time horizon expands to 100 plus years, how aggressive should we be with equities? That's a great question, Andy. And before answering that, I just want to say I thought Catherine made some great points about
maintaining your health throughout life. And I love Marci's points about staying connected. That is not only correlated with health, but your life should have meaning beyond how much money you have. And I spend all day trying to find ways to make money. But these are really important points that the other panelists are making here. The thing that I would think about is, Andy, earlier you talked about inflation, and
I think that's a key point. There are certain things that we were taught as kids that made sense then that don't make sense anymore. For instance, you can't save in dollars. You know, imagine that you have dollars in the bank account, and today you can buy a certain amount of goods
and services. But think about over the course of your retirement, you know, five years from now, ten years from now, I promise you, the one thing I can guarantee you, and there aren't many guarantees in finance, is that that money will buy a smaller amount, a lesser amount of goods and services in five or ten years. So you can't save in dollars. And that also affects thinking about bonds, right? A lot of times when people retire or get close to retirement, they're put
more into bond funds or invested more into bonds. The problem with that is five years, ten years, 20 years from now, what you're going to be receiving are more fiat dollars. And that's just a fancy way of saying a currency that is being debased and losing purchasing power. People think about inflation as rising prices, and I encourage people to think about inflation as a loss of purchasing power of the dollars that you own. So there
are things, nobody panic on this. There are things that you can do to help yourself. Think about investing more in high growth equities, particularly if you have a couple of decades throughout retirement. You can also think about things like gold, which will hold its value. People think about gold hitting all time highs and up a lot this year. And the way that I would reframe that is gold is holding its purchasing power while the dollar is losing purchasing power. So gold is a great
option. I'm a huge fan of bitcoin. This is something we've discussed on other shows together. But I think bitcoin at this point is harder, meaning it's harder to reproduce than gold is at the moment. And I also like to think a lot about energy, and energy investing. Oil, uranium, these are, the whole world wants to live at a higher material quality of life. And these go beyond the. The social connections that Marci was talking about. But there is a 100% correlation
between a higher material quality of life and energy usage. And that's where the whole world is heading. And owning those things for the next few decades, I think, is going to make a lot of sense. Do you think that one has to approach risk differently, risk management differently? The thing that I would think about is to think in terms of risk adjusted returns. One of the things that a lot of traditional asset managers have unfortunately succeeded in doing is a lot of people have
sold low returns as safe. And I don't know how they managed to do it, but they've managed to tell people, well, we're going to get you poor returns, but you'll be safe. And in my world having it's great marketing, but in my world making more money and getting better returns is safer now, not at any cost, but we encourage people to think in terms of risk
adjusted returns. And it's okay to be involved in some risky positions where the downside is you might lose 50% of your money, but the upside is you could make three 4510 times your money. And its okay to be in situations like that, but the right way to approach it is to keep those as a smaller percentage of your assets. And that way if you make money in it and it works out well, you can end
up with a return thats meaningful to you. But figure out what your downside is and if youre in a name where you could lose a lot of money, just keep it small so that one loss doesnt crush you or your portfolio. Marci, what are you seeing people doing today? Right, if we're living longer, planning smarter, what are people doing today and what changes? Like what changes might we anticipate? I mean, I think that the thing that's most interesting in this conversation is people
investing in themselves. I mean, if you think of yourself as an asset, that might provide you some returns, both on the kind of human side that we've been talking about. But even on the financial side, there's a huge movement of people going back to what we call school for the second half of life. My friend Chip Conley, who founded the modern elder Academy, he talks about there used to be lifelong learning, and he coined the phrase long life
learning, which I really love. There are some like 15 higher ed institutions all around the country who have some form of on what we would call an encore transition program. Many of them are virtual. Some of them are residential programs or hybrid hybrid programs. My colleague Mark Friedman, the founder of our organization, is teaming up with Yale University at the Yale School of Management, is launching its program in this space
starting in January. Chip Conley created the modern elder academy with campuses in Baja, Mexico, where I've been lucky enough to teach, and Santa Fe, New Mexico. They also have tons of online programs, including programs with financial aid assistance. So I think there is this booming market right now in really education for the second half of life, but not just enrichment education but really skills based education that's going to help you think
about what is a new vocation for this part of life. How could you redeploy yourself? So that's the kind of investment in yourself that I think we're going to see much, much more of. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's a conversation you have with your financial advisor. I think it was the Stanford
Longevity center. They've kind of speculated that if people live a long time, that you're going to have a series of careers or you're going to have different stages or phases in your life where you go back to school, you work, maybe you're not working for a while to raise a family, then you go back for more training, a new career. Like, can you share your experience because you were a lawyer and then you turned to writing?
You were writing for the New York Times? I think so. Like, what lessons can be gleaned from your experience if that becomes, like, the future? Because I think a lot of people are not thinking in terms of how do I start a new career after, like a 30 year career. Andy, I think the future is already here. This is already happening. So, yes, I think I am a little bit. Exhibit a. I've had at least three careers. I was a lawyer, and I was a journalist and speaker educator.
And now for 15 years, I've been in the nonprofit sector, which felt like an entire, entire new career that I started in my mid, late forties. And I am just one of, you know, so many people living this way. And I actually think younger generations know no other way. They don't really necessarily think of a
retirement stop date. They instead, many younger people are piloting the idea of pauses of career, pauses to go to take time off for family, whether to start a family, care for someone in a family, having a family adventure of some kind,
and then reengage in. And so these kind of gaps, rather than thinking about, we work, work, work, and then we just stop working for the rest of our lives, I think these mini retirements or pauses or what academics would call sabbaticals are going to become quite a lot more common and using those times to gain those skills. I mean, in my story, I didn't really take a gap, but at each juncture I did a lot of retraining. I found
mentors, I took classes. People use that time sometimes to go back for a certificate or a degree, and each time you re credential or reskill, you kind of refill the tank a little bit so that you can travel longer on the journey. I'm not proposing that we work till we drop or that all of that work has to be income producing, but if we are going to take the really reap the benefits of these longer lives, we do have to figure out how to stay
current. Many times, our industry shifts. And if we want to stay in the game, we need re education and training even to stay in the same work, let alone do something new. So I think. I think we're just gonna see more and more people living like this. And I think a lot of older people today are learning from watching their millennial kids kind of who live this way naturally. Catherine, what are you seeing in your research as far as, like, the evolving
definition or expectation of retirement? So we see some really interesting things, and I want to talk about human capital investing in ourselves. And as we've been talking about, people envision working longer, fully retiring at an older age, but with a transition, something that is gradual, maybe working in a. Doing an encore career or working part time. It's very, very personal, and people have that vision. At the same time, we ask people about their expected sources of retirement income
and the surprising percentage. Actually, in addition to the other elements of the three legged stool, Social Security, 401 ks, pensions, continued work is often cited as an expected source of retirement income. Well, if we think about savings and investment, we have, you know, there are people like Gary and yourself who offer guidance and expertise on how to do that. But we also, given that an important component of our retirement income is based on our
own personal earnings, we've got to invest in ourselves. And I mentioned earlier, things like taking good care of our health, because our health is everything. If we don't have our health, we can't enjoy life, we can't enjoy our families, we can't work. But at the same time, we have to invest in ourselves in terms of our skills and abilities. And that's got to happen more and more often. The
pace of change is so rapid these days. And as Marcia has pointed out, you got to run just to keep up with your own current job right now, especially with where technology is headed, I believe we're at another element of a technology revolution, where it's up to each and every one of us to invest in our selves, keep our skills up to date, and look for new things that we might enjoy doing or love doing so that we can move forward. And I love, love, love the fact that we have so many what I call
next step programs across the country. But I also want to give a shout out to all of, as we learned during the pandemic, all of the webinars, resources, and we have an abundance of knowledge available that's readily accessible. And then something I've done throughout my working years is when I need to brush up or I just need to go something, learn something new. I go to a local university extension program and take a class,
and it's great because you learn it. But I also meet new friends. I've met some great friends that way, and it's also helped envision new possibilities that I may not have if I were just sitting at my desk or with the same group of coworkers. And volunteer work is also a great way to learn as well. Anybody else want to chime in? I mean, Catherine, I just have to say, like, I followed your playbook when I left the law to become a
journalist. I live in New York City. I took classes at the new school and my local why and those are the two classes that trained me to become a freelance journalist. I didn't even need to go back and get a master's degree, so I'm a huge fan of taking part in those, whether you do a formal program or a one off. And the other thing that going for education does for you, it often helps you meet younger people who are just entering the field just as you are perhaps career shifting or shaking things
up. And that kind of network, having an intergenerational network where you get out of your age, peer group is another key to longevity in your career. You will start to feel at a certain age that people behind you are starting to kind of know where the future is going, see where the trends are. Open your eyes to new perspectives so those relationships are crucial. Love it. Investing in yourself we're going to move on
to segment three. Technology is transforming retirement planning, offering tools that simplify financial and lifestyle management. Robo advisors like betterment and Wealthfront provide automated, personalized investment management based on individual retirement goals and risk tolerance. These platforms offer features like automatic rebalancing and tax loss harvesting. Online tools also play a crucial role in budgeting
and managing retirement savings. Retirement calculators from providers like Vanguard infidelity help estimate the savings needed for a desired lifestyle while budgeting. Apps like rocket money and ynab track expenses and help manage spending. Healthcare is enhanced by wearable devices and health tracking apps. Telemedicine platforms like Teladoc and Amwell offer convenient access to healthcare professionals, making healthcare more
accessible and reducing costs. By leveraging these technological advancements, retirees can navigate retirement planning with greater ease, ensuring financial stability and better health management. Yeah, I think that Catherine was talking about the power of technology and how that can shape how we learn, how we, how we upskill, whether it's work or our, I guess, hobby pursuits. Catherine how do you see digital tools helping financial literacy programs and retirement and planning
ahead? That's a great question, and it's also, in my mind, a great multi generational question and intergenerational question about not only use of technology, but different ways and sharing those different ways of using
technology. And the reality is, anything that's going to make learning about money easier and make it easier for people to set forth a budget, manage their daily decisions, because it's those daily decisions that have a long term cumulative effect that are going to play a really important role in helping people build their wealth and be prepared for emergencies. Because we do see in our research that in many ways, people are actually better at saving for retirement than
setting aside an emergency savings fund. So, engaging tools are things that can only help people, but we got to get them to engage in them. Some encouraging things I've seen in our research are younger generations being a lot more interested in money and talking about it in ways that I didn't experience in my generation and much more freely. So something that my generation pretty buttoned up about. But with Gen Z and millennials, they've really
opened up the dialogue and about. It's probably close to a decade ago. In our survey, we asked workers how frequently they discuss saving and investing for retirement among family and close friends, and we were blown away because millennials were twice as likely to say they frequently discuss it, then maybe worse. Yeah, that's got to be a. That's got to be a big plus. That's progress. Yeah. And it's funny seeing the. How technology can
be a really helpful tool. But at the same time, sometimes it's not. Just as a quick example, my wife, she tries tracking our household budget so that we can monitor it and then also discuss it. And she found that. But, you know, it's one, it's nice when it can be automated. Like, you can plug your credit card is automatically pulling and categorizing. Like, how have you spent money for the last
month? Where did your money go? But then she found, oh, you know, when it happens automatically, it's not really registering up here. And therefore, she's like, you know what? Sometimes I'd rather just have a spreadsheet where I manually have to put it in, and taking that little bit of extra time gives you time to think about it and then it registers. So it's kind of interesting that way. Yeah, that's what I call this what the heck moments. I mean, I have a. I have a. I so loved what you
said. Oh, Catherine. Yeah, I so loved what you said about the intergenerational piece of this. I. One of the most interesting events I went to this year was hosted by mentor New York. And they brought together teenagers and kind of older people in this one community in Queens, in New York to do a financial workshop on financial literacy. And what was so interesting, and it was gamified, and it was
not tech based. It was an interactive game where everybody had a certain amount of money associated with whatever job they pulled from a hat. So you could be a house cleaner, you could be a hedge fund manager. Whatever your job was, you got your monthly take home salary. And then there were all these stations you can stop out along with your pair. The pairs were older. The
teenager and the older person were matched as pairs. And they had to together decide how they were going to spend their budget, what they would spend monthly on housing, on their food budget, on their entertainment costs. And what happened was in their dialogues, they also got to talk about their hopes and dreams, like, what were they saving money for? What did, what were some of the expenses that they carried at this stage of their life? So they got to know each other, and they got
to know what was important to each other. And they had to make important questions like, should I have a roommate versus live with my parents versus kind of take a private apartment? And is that apartment a one bedroom or a two bedroom? And each one of these choices, do I use public transportation or have a car? And it was so old school, there was nothing tech oriented about it. Everybody said that they had never, people said they'd never been a part of something like
that. And doing it with people of another generation really helped people to think about what are the expenses that occupy us at these stages of our life versus where you are living? So it was really eye opening to see that and to see that we don't need technology to really think about budgeting and financial planning. I love the exercise. Gary, what about applications like technology and money management? Will AI be managing our portfolio someday?
I think it's too early to start counting on AI to handle all of this for us. But the tools available now are just night and day versus what we had when I was first starting in the business, back when I first started on the buy side. One way we got an edge over other funds was if there was news out on a company and you were interested in finding something out, you would call the companys investor relations, give them your FedEx number, and with that they
would FedEx you and overnight youd get an information package. The next day and you could get an edge that way. Now, you know, everything is available everywhere. In the last few years, I have lived and worked in, I think, eight different countries. And as long as I have an Internet connection, I am fully operational. There is nothing going on that I can't find out about or read about or get to understand.
Beyond that, you know, there have been a lot of comments in the show about people not becoming stale and having multiple careers or continuing education. And one of the things that people can do that some people don't think about is learn about investing. There's no reason you can't pick that up in your fifties, sixties, seventies, back when I started in the business, the only way you could get into the hedge fund business was to be in the
hedge fund business. There were certain ways of looking at investments that just weren't publicly known or understood. Now you have guys like Bill Ackman putting out 200 page PDF's and doing two and three hour YouTube presentations on an individual investment idea. Platforms like Sum Zero and Value Investors Club, where professional investors post their write ups and explain to you exactly why
they like certain ideas. And so you have this ability now that you didn't a few decades ago, where you can be anywhere in the world at any time and start to understand how some of the best investors in the world look at their portfolios or look at an individual investment, or on the macro side, why people are shifting money from one sector to another. None of that is beyond people who have just a decent amount of intellect
and a lot of curiosity and some energy. And so I would encourage people to take advantage of the kinds of continuing education and lifestyle that Marci and Catherine were talking about. But you can do that in finance. And the best proof I have of all of it is I'm very fortunate at deep knowledge investing to have this incredible community. And certainly we have a lot of family office people and some professional investors and hedge funds. And these are
people who do this for a living. But I also have a large number of very smart, very driven amateur investors. They dont invest professionally, but they ask great questions. They understand whats going on. Their ability to manage their own portfolios, or at least a portion of it, is incredible. And I dont think its beyond any of
the people listening to this. Yeah, I think there are a lot of ways that people can use technology or the Internet to start to educate themselves and take an active part in their own financial planning. Anyone else okay with that? We're going to go to segment four. Retirement offers. The chance to redefine life by pursuing new passions and opportunities beyond traditional activities. Many retirees use this time for self discovery, reflecting on
interests that bring them joy and fulfillment. Engaging in hobbies such as joining art classes, community gardening, or sports clubs can introduce new skills and keep them active. Starting a business or offering consulting services not only generates income, but also allows retirees to continue using their knowledge in meaningful ways. Whether launching a small business or providing consultancy, these endeavors can offer mental stimulation and financial security. Volunteer work
provides a sense of purpose and community connection. Many organizations seek retirees for roles such as mentoring or participating in local charity events, which can foster social bonds and personal satisfaction. By embracing new careers, hobbies, or volunteer work, retirees can craft a fulfilling and enriching retirement that keeps them engaged and purposeful. If you're just joining us, you're watching inspired the future of retirement, navigating changing trends and new possibilities.
Feel free to drop a comment telling us what platform you're watching from and where you're watching from geographically. Would love to hear from you. Marci, what advice do you have for people for retirees who want to build a second career or somebody who wants to do a slash career that provides financial security and satisfaction? First of all, I love that you're using the slash language, and I love that
Catherine, you use the encore career language. I think that the most important thing is to do some experiments and to understand that life is long and you have time for detours. But often the detours help you find your way. Lots of people when they're older, feel like they have to know right away what it is they want to do. But the only way we know is if we try things out and then kind of get the feedback to know, do I want to go deeper in that area.
So that could be anything from starting to do reading to showing up at events or conferences and areas that you're interested in, even to do some networking and informational interviews with people who do things that intrigue you. And one small experiment can help you decide, should I go deeper in this area or should I try something else? Because really, it's not as interesting as I thought it would be. So I think those experiments
are really important. I think what Catherine said about taking a class, even one class, as it happened for me, one class in freelance writing turned me in, like sparked my interest and convinced me that I wanted to be a journalist and I was going back to an earlier interest and I found a new way to do it that made sense for the life stage that I was in when I was younger, I thought I wanted to be a playwright. But at midlife I
realized, oh, I am interested in writing, but it's journalism. I want to interview people and I want to tell true stories. So I think this idea of kind of testing our instincts, doing something to try it out and then going deeper and then deciding is something of interest to you as a hobby or a passion, or is something going to be something you want to pursue for income? That's another kind of path to go down and start experimenting. We have countless people who have an
interest in something food related. Do they want to bake? Do they want to cook? You hear of all these people developing catering businesses or things like that. At the flip side, you could find that you want to get involved in your local soup kitchen because you're interested in food and the way it nourishes the soul. So there is this question about what role do you want something to play in your life? What's your way to plug
into that? And what kind of an experiment can you do to get some quick information and go deeper really quickly? Tell everybody what the idea of slash is, because when you wrote your book, that really resonated. Thank you. It was quite a long time ago, I wrote, my first book was about the idea of the slash career, the slash, the punctuation mark. Because what I was seeing is many people could not define their identity without the use of many slashes or hyphens. So you had people who
were something by day, something by night. I was a lawyer, and you could, I saw countless, like, you know, lawyer slash cellist, or, you know, financial advisor slash massage therapist. And what I was seeing in these slash combinations is that people needed many different outlets to fulfill the different sides of their identity. So often we do something for income, something to nurture a passion. We have something to heal the world or express our strong
interest in a faith community. So we are many, many things, and many of them are the roles we play in our family or in our friend circle or community. So I was very interested in the way we braid all these things together and in how we can form a collection of slashes that allows us to express ourselves in the way we want to express, but also how one slash can often fuel another.
So obviously, Andy, you do this podcast, and I'm sure that it is very useful to the business that you run, and that's a very nice synergy. But, you know, perhaps in another life you would have had a career in entertainment, and you have found a way to blend these two interests of yours, and we see many, many more. Again, this is something that, when I wrote about this in 2007, the first edition of that book, it was starting to feel like this emerging
trend, I think it is now ubiquitous. I think younger people today think about their main job, their side hustle. It is entirely common. And Catherine, just like the transparency around money, I see much more transparency in how people are talking about the multiple strands of their working lives in ways that people used to hide their
side hustle at their day job. And now very often, you know, we have had on our team countless yoga, meditation instructors, musicians who kind of bring those skills to our retreats or even our week in, week out way that we work. We realize we have talent on our team, and often we want to use that talent so people are not hiding those identities, like in
the closet the way I think they did many years ago. I love the idea, and I will divulge that last week, Thursday, I was working on financial plans in the morning, and then by evening I was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art performing hawaiian music for an event there. So you can wear many hats and it's all good. Catherine, I want to ask you about the idea of, like, accumulation stage versus decumulation stage. Like,
is that going to be so clear cut? And, like, how do people balance their financial needs in retirement versus personal fulfillment? And that is such a big question, how to financially manage the transitions and desired what we'll call trajectory. And that's where financial advisors can be extremely helpful. Employers, especially through 401s, you know, they help people in the accumulation stage. And then retirement plan providers, 401K providers, have lots of tools and resources to help
retiring employees figure it out. However, they're not yet widely used, they're not yet ubiquitous, and it's something that we all need to put more front and center because we all want to avoid. I think it's safe to say we all want to avoid running out of savings when we retiree. I want to go back to what you and Marci were talking about in
the next career and all the slashes. One thing, something I learned from my grandmother many years ago when she turned 90, it was really important to her to introduce me to her good friend, who she called her mentor in old age. So she had a friend who had turned 100. And so this woman was her mentor. All the things that you can expect in your nineties and how to live in your nineties.
All too often we think of mentors for people who are just getting started for big life changes and certainly transitioning into a new chapter is one of them. It's so important to find mentors, find people who are already doing it it or already done it, who you think have done it really well and reach out to them. I don't think it's really a secret. A lot of people really like to talk about themselves.
So going out for coffee or lunch or just a zoom, it's amazing what you can learn about people and their journeys, the things that work well and the things that they learned that they would have done differently. How about you, Gary? You love investing. I see that whenever you're posting on LinkedIn or you're writing your newsletter, this is something that you're passionate about. Will you continue until you can no longer do it? Like, will you retire? What's your view?
I don't see retirement in my future. I like what I do. You're right. I'm passionate about it. I'm engaged. One of the great things about investing is it's really easy to not get stale. Not only does the world change and your knowledge of macroeconomics change, but I get to look at different industries all the time. I mean, the last year alone, I've looked at medical devices, drug companies, security companies, multiple security companies, energy companies,
casino gaming companies. And so every day I'm looking at different businesses and different industries and learning about something new. And it's really fun. And the thing that I live for, Andy, is that moment when I realized that the dominant narrative, the thing that everybody believes to be true, isn't correct. And I understand the reason why. And, you know, that's not something that happens on a daily or weekly basis, but searching for that is meaningful. And when you get that momentous, it
is incredible. And then when that turns into profits and I get really nice emails or text messages from deep knowledge investing subscribers or people on the board who say, I invested in this with you. I made a lot of money. My financial situation is more secure now. That is personally rewarding. Beyond that, we've talked a lot on the show about being engaged in things besides your primary career, and I think that's phenomenal advice. You know, just since I've turned 50,
I've lived in multiple different countries. I've taken lessons in billiards, salsa dancing, surfing, Spanish. So far I have lo siento nablo espanol, which is super effective and never fails to make people laugh. My Spanish is legendarily horrible. But, you know, I can order a beer and I'm getting better. And I apologize if I mispronounced me telling people, I don't speak Spanish,
but I'm engaged in whatever I'm doing. And I've had plenty of days where, you know, I've gotten to work all day and then headed to the beach to go surfing for an hour or two. And just learning a new skill is really valuable. I also think there have been a lot of comments on the show about the value of connecting with different kinds of people.
And it's really common for me to have a day where I spend part of the day on the phone with members of the deep knowledge investing board of advisors who might be in their seventies or eighties and are incredibly accomplished and they know their fields inside
and out and we talk about what's on their minds. But I've also had the great pleasure and satisfaction of having, I think at this point it's nine or ten interns, phenomenal young people between the ages of, you know, 19 and 22, and working with them, learning from them, you know, mentoring them, helping them prepare has been absolutely rewarding. And it's fun to spend that time with them and to see them succeed. So far we have had a 100% success
ratio. Every single deep knowledge investing intern has had that first big good job in finance when they've graduated school. I'm still in touch with them. Just a week and a half ago, three of them came up to Connecticut and I spent the day with them. These are all great ways to spend your life, to spend your day. So, no, I don't want to
retire. I want to keep doing what I'm doing and learning new things every day, every week, and continuing to connect with lots of different people that I think it's a good life, it's a meaningful life. It's very difficult, it's very challenging, and I enjoy it. Well, it's interesting if, as we live longer, as we get older, you're lucky to be in a field as proven by Warren Buffet and the late Charlie Munger, you can do your work for a really, really long
time. Let's we're going to bring it home and go to segment five. Retirement offers the opportunity to explore diverse living arrangements and community engagement, enriching life beyond traditional expectations. Retirement villages provide a supportive network with communal amenities, enhancing social engagement and overall well being. Cohousing communities emphasize shared experiences and sustainability, though they may require navigating communal decision making and privacy
concerns. Some retirees embrace digital nomadism, working remotely while traveling. Though this lifestyle requires a adaptability to new environments and local systems. Granny pods and multi generational living options keep retirees close to family while maintaining independence, but they may necessitate adjustments in family dynamics. Staying socially active is crucial. Volunteering and joining interest based communities tailored to specific hobbies foster connections and purpose.
For those seeking a different cultural experience, living abroad presents benefits such as lower living costs and unique cultural immersion, though it comes with challenges like cultural adjustment and legal processes. I think in this final segment, all of you have touched on some aspect of this. So I like this idea of alternative retirement lifestyles. Marci, you want to kick us off? Like, the importance of multi generational, like, what are your thoughts? Well, first of all, I was thrilled.
I'm sorry, I'm getting a little echo here. I'm thrilled that you really covered the range of kind of co living, co housing, and touched on both intergenerational approaches rather than just the idea that we're all going to move to some 50 plus community, because I think that is the wave of the future, that people don't want to be segregated
by age. And on that vein, one of the things I'm most excited about is the potential for university campuses to be a place for that kind of intergenerational living where we can all be kind of living and learning together. So there are in the vanguard some kind of high end retirement communities
that are housing themselves on university campuses. But I've also seen some efforts that are really working with people who are housing insecure and offering university adjacent living in ways for people in communities who live near universities to be getting involved in the
university community in intergenerational ways. There's one effort at Drexel University where my nephew goes, that there is a really very innovative community that is connecting residents of West Philadelphia with their university neighbors through writing and photography, and they
are piloting intergenerational cohousing. So I think we're going to see a lot of innovation in that particular area where we get away from thinking that the dream is to kind of save up for some kind of 50 plus experience where you are only with your age peers, but instead you could be knitted to the social fabric wherever you live, whether you relocate somewhere or do that where you've spent most of your life.
I love it. Gary, you mentioned your love for travel. I'm kind of curious, like how has your travel experiences influenced your investments? It makes a surprisingly positive difference. Even though everything I'm doing I can do from anywhere, I tend to do more work and I'm more productive, do better work when I'm overseas and I don't necessarily know the reason for that, but I suspect it has to do
with the friction of travel. That just being in an unfamiliar place, getting to know different people, dealing with different languages, different foods, whatever that friction is, it seems to spark some sort of creativity. And I get a lot done, and I've often stayed at places that are like co work, co living places where, you know, there are people older than me, a lot of people younger, a lot of digital
nomads, a lot of founders. And I, you know, I talk to them, and I think it's really important to go through life open. Open to all kinds of people, just talk to people, get to know them. You know, one of my favorite things to do, especially when I'm traveling, is if I'm on my own, I go to dinner and I sit at the bar because there will be people to your left, people to your right. It's a. You end up connecting and, you know, instead of, you know, oh, this person looks interesting or potentially
useful in approaching them. You get whoever is next to you and you make the best of it. And I now have friends all over the world, men, women, all different kinds of people that I'm able to keep in touch with. You know, one other thing that I find really useful, and, you know, it was touched on earlier in the show, talking about a 90 year old having an aging mentor who's, you know, 100 years old. But one of the things I found really useful is
to ask people for advice. When I was running Silver Arrow with my partner, Raji Cabaz, there were times we'd have a dilemma. We would say, should we handle this situation in this way or that way? And it involves somebody. And I said, it doesn't matter. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to call that person, ask for their advice, ask them which path do you think is the better one? We'll do what they suggest, and they're
going to think that we're smart, and that's exactly what happened. But we got to hear their point of view, and we were just open to other people's point of view and talking to different people, meeting different people. I just find stuff like that to be incredibly helpful. And for me, the more I travel, the more different people I come into contact with, the different points of views. I just find that to be
very useful. This came up already, but many people in my age group are experiencing a need to provide support for both our kids and also aging parents. Catherine, I'm curious, what trends are you seeing at Transamerica? Center for Retirement Studies. You are not alone. That is our trend. In our worker survey, approximately four in ten are either currently serving or have served as a caregiver for a loved one in the past.
What's so interesting is it's workers of all ages, Gen Z and millennials right now are in the top spot, is the most likely to be serving or have served as caregivers. But there's actually a great deal of similarity from Gen Z all the way up to boomers. Often there's a societal perception that caregiving is more for older workers, and that simply is nothing the case. The care recipient, though, could be different. So for Gen Z, it's in millennials, it might be a
grandparent, millennials. In Gen X, a parent. For boomers, it's often a spouse. So that is a trend that's here to stay. And employers are recognizing this, but they could be doing a whole lot more to support their caregiving employees in ways that can help them navigate their caregiving situation, but also stay focused on their work. And when I say programs, I mean things like employee assistance programs, referrals to care, things that can make their life
easier. Well, thank you. This has been an incredible caregivers. Oh, sorry, I missed what you said. Someday we will all be caregivers, or we might even need care ourselves. So it's an everybody opportunity, that's for sure. It is an everyone opportunity. This has been an incredible discussion today. I want to thank our panelists, Catherine Collinson, Marci Alba, I had it right at the beginning, and now I cannot say it
correctly. And Gary Brode, you guys all stepped up in lieu of our technical difficulties. Unfortunately, Aubrey de Greyenne was not able to get his audio going. So we're going to make sure that he's back on a future episode, as well as Dan Ariely, who couldn't get good Internet. But I think if there's one takeaway from this episode, it's that the future of retirement
is no longer a fixed path. We're living longer, healthier, and that means that our approach to retirement planning, whether it's financial, career based, or even lifestyle focused, it needs to evolve, too. We need to think of. We need to think beyond traditional work, saving, stopping. Instead, retirement is becoming a time for reinvention new passions and longer term financial strategies that can sustain us for many decades. So here's my call to action.
To you, the viewer, the listener, take a moment to reassess your financial and retirement plan. Whether you're just starting out or you're already retired, ask yourself. Am I planning for a future that could last 30, 40 or even 50 years? Look at your investments, your health, planning, your personal passions. And what's one thing that you can do this week to make sure your retirement plan reflects the changing landscape that we talked about today? You can visit all
of our panelists and follow them for more. Once again, thank you to Marci, Catherine and Gary. You can find Catherine at transamericainstitute.org. There's a lot of great resources there. Marci is vice president at CoGenerate. You can find herat CoGenerate.org. Also check out her books. Her latest one is the Encore Career Handbook. Definitely worth checking out. And Gary Brode, thank you for stepping in at the 11th hour. You can find him at deepknowledgeinvesting.com.
Thank you to our panelists and for sharing all their insights and making this a great episode. The next Inspired Money episode will be here in two days. We missed last week, so we're going to be back on Friday. Mindful wealth cultivating a balanced approach to financial success. That's at 1:00 p.m. eastern on Friday. We have a great panel coming in. We have no harm investor and advocate for positive and restorative investing. Marco
Vangelisti. We have a couple financial therapists, Amanda Clayman and Leisa Peterson, as well as a wealth and wellness coach, Leah Davis. Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with someone who you think will benefit. Until next time, Friday, do something that scares you, because that's where the magic happens. Thanks, everybody.