Financial Resilience: Navigating Unexpected Challenges and Bouncing Back Stronger

Aloha and welcome. Inspired money maker. Thanks for joining us today. If this is your first time here, welcome. And if you're returning, welcome back. It's always great to have you. Today we're discussing an important topic, financial resilience. Picture this. Unexpected medical bills, a sudden job loss, a surprise expense. Life throws curveballs and our financial health often takes a hit. In fact, my neighbor just delivered me an unplanned expense. This past weekend, I was

innocently raking my leaves. A losing battle by the way, until the leaves are all off the trees. Well, after exchanging casual greetings, my neighbor said, hey, I've been wanting to talk to you. There's a tree that's dying between our properties. So I plan to get some estimates. Being neighborly, I plan to split the cost. So this is a real world example and there are always going to be financial surprises. Some big, some small. But what if you could prepare yourself to

withstand these shocks? That's what financial resilience is all about. It's your ability to bounce back from setbacks, keep moving forward, and ultimately grow stronger. Financial resilience is like a muscle. The more you work on it, the stronger it gets. By developing habits that help us save, manage debt and adapt to change, we can build up the strength to tackle the unexpected and the peace of mind that comes with it. Today we're going to have four incredible experts

who will show us how to do just that. So whether you're just starting out, recovering from a setback, or planning for the future, this episode will be packed with insights that you can put into practice. Before we jump in, this episode is brought to you by my financial advisory firm, runnymede Capital Management. I want to invite you to take advantage of our three. Our three. I can't say it. Our free three minute financial plan. There,

I got it. Or you could say three free. No, no, never mind. So head over to InspiredMoney.fm/getplan. It only takes three minutes and it'll give you a personalized snapshot to help kickstart your financial journey. Don't miss it and then we can have a conversation afterwards if you go

through that exercise. So let's welcome in our guest for today's discussion we have Vicki Robin, a renowned social innovator, author and speaker, best known for co authoring the classic youc Money or your Life, updated in 2018 to address the spiritual, social and ecological aspects of money. I suspect this book has inspired many of us here on this show and in our viewers lives. It's really a comprehensive and revolutionary book on money management.

With a recent focus on community, Vicki explores sustainable solutions through her book Blessing the Hands that feed Us. She has a podcast, what could possibly go Right? And her advocacy for localism and sustainable living is very impressive. Vicki, so excited that you're here. I'm really glad to be here with you and all of you. We are excited. We have Jo Sal Sehai back

on Inspired money. He's a former financial advisor turned financial media personality, best known as the co creator and host of Stacking Benjamins, one of the most popular personal finance podcasts. With 16 plus years of industry experience and a knack for making financial topics approachable and fun, Joe combines humor and real life lessons to help audiences feel confident and empowered about their money. Joe, welcome. Thanks, Andy. I'm super excited about this topic.

We're excited to have you here and I expect some laughs from you. Oh boy. No pressure. We have Anne Lester back on the show. She's a retirement savings expert, former head of retirement solutions for JP Morgan. Her book, you best financial save smart now for the future you want provides younger generations with actionable strategies for overcoming behavioral biases in achieving long term financial success. Ann, welcome back. Thanks so much for having me

again. And you did lots of interviews on podcasts and media and now you're doing more live speaking. Absolutely. It's been a great journey. That's exciting. Hopefully we can all catch you IRL in real life. Coming soon to a theater near you. Absolutely. Exactly. And then rounding out our panel today, we have Yanely Espinal. She's a financial educator, speaker, author of the Amazon bestseller Mind you'd Money, insightful stories and strategies to help you reach your

moneygoals. As director of educational outreach for NextGen Personal Finance and creator of the popular YouTube channel Ms. Be Helpful. She brings a passion for financial education, relatable financial guidance to younger audiences, and she shares insights from her journey to debt, freedom and beyond. So excited to have you here, Yanely. Thank you. Oh my gosh, what a crew. This is amazing. I'm just honored to be in this company. Right. Vicki's book inspired you too.

Absolutely, it did. Incredible wisdom that was like mind blowing for me at such a young age. So, yeah, again, honored to be here. Yeah, suspiciously, I didn't. I don't see Vicki's image there. Hopefully she can get back into the call. She already. Mic dropped. She's Exactly. She's out. She graced us and then out. All right, so my fingers and toes are

crossed. I'm excited to have all of you here because this panel has experience, expertise, and I think you guys bring a diverse and different perspective for this very common topic that we all share. Money and Financial Resilience no matter how good you are with money or no matter how good you get, you're going to still make mistakes. We all do. So let's get started and jump right into segment one. An emergency fund acts as a financial safety net, offering stability in the

face of life's unexpected challenges. Experts suggest aiming to save three to six months worth of essential living expenses, which can vary depending on personal circumstances such as job security and health needs. Calculate your target by listing key monthly costs and setting a realistic savings goal to build this fund. Start small if needed and increase contributions over time. Automatic transfers are an effective way to ensure consistent saving, while windfalls like tax refunds can

accelerate growth. Define clearly what constitutes an emergency. Think medical costs or sudden job loss, and resist using the fund for non essential expenses. Regularly review and adjust your target as your situation evolves. By maintaining discipline, this reserve becomes a tool to prevent debt, alleviate financial stress, and foster resilience, providing peace of mind when unforeseen events arise. So Anne, you have a chapter in your book. You suck at saving

and it's not your fault. How do you see emergency an emergency fund as a stepping stone toward making more complex financial goals like retirement? I think it's the absolutely critical first step everybody needs to take when you're just starting out or if you are well on your own financial journey. If you don't have at least three to six months of necessary living expenses saved up like it's not too late. Start now. That emergency savings fund is the thing that

is going to keep you out of more trouble. As Andy said, something is going to happen and in our case it was, you know, three or four months after we bought our house and we spent all of our money on the down payment and moving expenses, our roof sprung a leak. And that's why I refer to that emergency savings fund as your O fund in the book. I don't know if we're allowed to say swear words on this podcast, but it's like what you screen when something

bad happens and you've got to have those savings there. In our case, we didn't have them there because we'd spent all the money getting the house bought, so we had to dip into the 401k plan, which is not what you're supposed to do in those circumstances at all. So oh gosh, well, that's real life, right? You know it's, it's, it's interesting. The reason I say that chapter is called you suck at savings and it's not your fault is because so many of us aren't taught at

home the importance of saving. And the way we're wired, right, Our brains get in our way. We want stuff when we want it. Right now there's temptations all around us. And it's so easy to click, you know, by when you're streaming or scrolling on Instagram without actually stopping and asking yourself, do I really need

this thing? How is it going to change my life? And so the reason I say it's, it's difficult for many people to save is this combination of our own brain wiring combined with what we may or may not have been taught at home. So true. I can do a lot of damage without even leaving my house. You know, just lying on the sofa with the phone, I can buy a lot of stuff. Joe, how can our viewer today balance enjoying life today with the discipline needed to build an emergency

fund? Well, I think the first step is, and it took me forever to learn this myself. It's funny, back when I was a brand new financial planner, I thought these rules applied to everybody else. I was very good at helping other people get out of debt, build savings, and yet my personal finances were a mess. And when I actually started boing, taking my own advice, silly, I know, Crazy. I started doing very well.

And you used a key word, discipline. It isn't about discipline. Once I gave up on discipline and realized that step number one is just making that saving automatic, having it disappear from my paycheck so it wasn't in my hand, have it directly go into an emergency fund. And by the way, for me, what I had to do, Andy, I had to put that emergency fund across town and I had to cut up the debit card. And the reason was it would all go in on Friday and would come out on Saturday because

much like Ann, I think this is why Ann and I bond so much. I'm a big time spender. If there's money in my wallet, I will spend that money. So knowing me, me having an emergency front across town, if it's a real emergency, I'll drive over there and get it. But if it's not, my brain will find other ways. So I think it's, it's kind of know yourself first. I believe I see Yanely nodding and pointing. Yanely, you grew up in Brooklyn, eight siblings, your parents immigrated

from the Dominican Republic, didn't speak English. What was your money Experience, like, and financial resilience story as a kid. Yeah, you know, honestly, I saw a lot of like the push to not owe other people money and to save a little here or there, but it was really as well, as much as it was well intentioned and well meaning. It was just misguiding me because it was teaching me to overemphasize having cash rather than having cash flowing, appreciating assets. You know, I never heard cash

flowing, appreciating assets in my life until as an adult. But I heard a lot about cash and I saw cash being used and stashed in shoeboxes around the house for things that was kind of saving for my

parents. And it really took unlearning a lot of what I had seen and been taught and reprogramming my mind to think about money differently and to embrace some of the new opportunities and access that I had to accounts and, you know, financial products and services that my parents just didn't have access to and they didn't know about before. Yes, you, you had a hunger. At what point did you have this hunger to educate yourself and change that?

I mean, I, I had to hit my version of rock bottom. I mean, I know every, everybody's situation is different. People have been much worse off financially than I was. But at my rock bottom, I was adding up all my credit card debt from college and from my early 20s and realizing that I had over $20,000 of debt, while my income at the time as a teacher was only about 41,000 a year. So like 50% of my annual salary I owed to credit card companies. And that was scary. And it

was like, it put a pit in my stomach. And I was like, I don't know how I let it get this bad. I mean, I know how I let it get this bad. I thought I was JLO shopping for new shoes and clothes every week. And like, I don't. I just didn't have anybody to guide me and say like, and shake me to say, girl, what is this life you're living? It doesn't align to the hand that you've been dealt. You got to be realistic. And so, and that's why I try to kind of talk in that tone now

to the young people who follow me. I'm like, look, I'm going to give you real talk. I'm going to be as kind as I can. But sometimes that tough love is really necessary because a lot of us, we fall into those traps and habits of overspending and spending beyond our means and not tracking any money coming in or having any type of budget or financial plan. It's great that you can be a role model. Can I say something on

that, Andy? What I, what I absolutely love about, you know, these message that, you know, this quote just that you told me a long time ago really resonated with me and that is that you're a great student. A lot of people watching this video are phenomenal students, but a lot of people feel this shame. You talk about your

parents didn't have the tools, that you didn't know the tools. And you kind of dropped a bomb on my podcast when you said if there was a test, if there was a curriculum, I would have aced it, because that's what you do. But there so often is not a curriculum. So I think for a lot of people out there, just getting away from the shame of where you are today and going, you know what, I can't go back

and do anything differently. I just got to start building today is really a part of overcoming a lot of this adversity that we all see. And if I can jump in on that shame comment, I think that's what a lot of what drove me to write my book was really understanding that so many people feel so much shame and self blame and fear around their money that even if they know what the right thing to do is, it's hard to take action and it's hard to ask for help or to take that first

step because you don't feel like you deserve it. And that to me, you know, there's so many people who feel that and it's just not necessary, you know, and we make better decisions when we're not overwhelmed by those negative feelings. So I think that's really important to highlight. Vicki, you say that money isn't necessarily dollars, it's life energy. How might that shift how we look at an emergency fund and building our

resilience? Thanks for asking. Yeah. And I will make a little note here, is that my Internet went down while we were beginning. So I'm back. But it's a perfect example of the larger story that I want to share in some way in this podcast, which is that we depend on systems that are out of our control and that appear to be fixed reality because we live inside them. We live inside of all these tools and we don't realize that they're

fragile. So anyway, in terms of money, yeah, one of the major teachings in your money, your life, and really the one that's most transformational is the idea that money Equals your life energy. We think of money as the basic transactions. And then you start to realize, no, my emotional states, whether it's shame or fear or longing or whatever, or wanting, you know, a better partner, whatever it is, we're investing our transactions with emotional meaning.

And then there's a larger level at which, you know, it's this social more is better and it's never enough. You know, that meme that we absorb in ourselves is actually in service to the corporatocracy because if we stop shopping, they stop existing. So we live inside this sort of swarm of ideas about money and become good, functional foot soldiers of

consumerism. So in your money or life, we say the only real definition of money that you know, you can actually experience is that money is something you trade your life energy for and your life energy is limited. You know, with credit cards it can seem that money is unlimited and you can go into. I know many people who say, well, I'll just die with my debt and it'll disappear. So. But life is limited. And you start to do that calculation, you realize, a third

of my life is going to be spent sleeping. Another third is going to be spent just managing the details of daily life like your neighbor and the tree and you know, another third and also your job. And then you have what they call disposable income. It's so interesting, you know, like you're supposed to get rid of it. So we have our brief time on earth, we have all of these duties of just having a body and a consumer culture. And then there's all our other

roles and desires. There's, you know, being an aunt, uncle, mother, father, grandma, you know, there's all, all of these things that take time, but the consumer culture takes time away from them. So basically it's starting to realize, it's starting to ask the question, you know, what am I here for? What do I want to invest my life energy? Which is now we know it's not just money, it's time. What do I want to invest my time in? And so basically the shift is a shift of sovereignty and self

respect. It's not a shift of deprivation, it's asking yourself the question for a purchase, is this going to make me happy? Commensurate with the amount of hours that I invested in my job to get it? And is this going to take me where I want to go? So I don't have any hints and tips other than self respect and sovereignty and valuing the non material aspects of life and realizing that since you buy money with your time adjusting your money life, spending less and earning more gives you,

theoretically more time in your life. Any tips on how to reprogram our thinking and our priorities? That was the tip. So it's the real. It's the realization. It's that realization. It's the willingness. It's the willingness. I mean, this is. This is honestly spiritual work. You know, money, your money, your life looks like a book about money, but it's really a spiritual book about what do you value? And so, you know, in your money life, we also suggest people, once

you know that money is life energy, that you track it. You know, this is what people have been saying, you know, in this whole group, you track. You become conscious of where your money is going. And then monthly, you tally up your expenses in categories that make sense to you, you know, like $500 in clothes, let's say. And let's say you just. You determine that your real hourly wage, not just, you know, the $35 an hour you theoretically get, but your real hourly wage. There's a lot

of expenses of go of having a job. So you think, maybe my real hourly wage is $20. Okay, I spent somebody else do the math for me. I'm too old for it anyway, you know, so you realize, okay, well, maybe I spent, you know, 30 hours of my life on this category. You look in your closet and you think, wow, I love every item there. And that was really a good use of my life energy. And I use it for costuming, for disco dancing. Well, we don't disco dance anymore. Excuse

me. You know, it comes back. It comes back. We're still disco dancing. Oh. But, I mean, you know, you. You get the drift. Is that there's. There's a. The tool of tracking is also a tool of evaluating your purpose in life and what really gives you pleasure. And so in doing the procedures of tracking and evaluating your money, you start to get that sort of meta understanding of who you are in this world and what you really want. Takes some. Yep, it takes some thought. Joe, you had.

You had an insight. Well, much more tactically. I love how Vicki starts with a philosophical, because I think that's how it gets through an adult learner's brain. But tactically, I'll tell you, when I. Back when I was a financial planner, when I was run up against Andy, is that people would say, wait a minute, I got all this credit card debt. It's at 15, 18, 21%, whatever. Why wouldn't I heck higher than that? Why wouldn't I attack that? First, and then

I'll do an emergency fund. You really have two choices. Choice one is make sure an emergency doesn't happen the whole time you're paying off this debt. Or realize that much like your tree and your neighbor's tree and all the things that happen in life, some bad thing is going to happen between now and that debt payoff. And make it so that you can get to the root of the problem, which is using the plastic in the first place. So, especially for people battling credit card debt, it was this.

When you talked about reprogramming, it was reprogramming realizing that real life happens when we don't expect it. And if that's going to happen and we're on this glide path, the glide path is going to have bumps. I need the emergency fund to make sure that it isn't a bumpy ride

back. Otherwise, I'm just paying. You know, I would meet with people, and they've been paying off debt for 10 years because they just get it paid off, and then the dishwasher breaks, and then they just pay it off, and then the mufflers dragging behind their car, then they just pay it off. And something, something, something. The emergency fund solves that forever. Yeah. And it is. It's a case since Vicki said that we're. We're living in this world where things are out of our control. And the

phrase is always, when it rains, it pours. Right. It's like when things are going wrong, more things just keep happening. Right? That's right. And one thing I will add, too, is I think that one of the biggest learning opportunities for me was reading so many books about money. And not only books about money from the author's perspective, but books that interviewed other people, because we are only privy to

our situation financially. Unfortunately, money is such a taboo subject that people don't want to talk about their debt, their credit scores, their income. They don't want to tell you how much they've invested or what their plan is

for retirement. Because whether it's because they feel shame or guilt or because they feel that they're inadequate, or maybe they feel that some guilt for being overprepared and while others aren't, whatever the root of it is, we don't like to talk about money, and we don't like to tell people our situation financially. So for me, reading books like your money or your Life, reading books like the Millionaire next Door, it

expanded my reference groups. Like before, I could only reference the people around me that I knew, like my neighbors who were Also on government assistance, just like my family. And so I thought, this is who I have to compare myself to. And once I started to expand in a positive way, right, because when you have a vertical expansion now, you can compare yourself to other people and say, wow, look at what they're doing to build

wealth. Maybe I should create a brokerage account, Maybe I should set up a 529 for my kids. Maybe I should do these things. But at the same time, you could also take it the negative way and start to compare yourself and, oh, maybe I should get a Lamborghini and maybe I should upgrade my, you know, so of course it's within reason, but having comparison points, other people's stories, you know, I referenced the research from the Million from the Millionaire Next

Door because that book was really mind blowing for me. I had never had access to the minds or thoughts of millionaires until I read that book. And so coming up in a low income family with parents who probably think they'll never reach a million dollars, being to access that in a book that was like 15 bucks, it's like a master class of a wealth of

knowledge. So if you're out there and you're feeling like the psychological shift that Vicki was talking about is kind of impossible for you at this point, I would challenge you to start researching, reading, exposing yourself to as many other people's ideas and thoughts and habits around money so that you can then situate where you want to fit in, in that scope. Love it. Ann, you wanted to say something? Yeah, I. I really

think, Vicki, I've been on a journey like the one you've described. I feel like my whole life, and one of the things I think can be helpful too is in addition to trying to take the big picture of you, to actually break it into little small chunks as well. And just two quick anecdotes. One is when I was talking to a young woman who'd read my book, she said, you know, and she literally said, are you going to tell me I can't buy my lattes anymore? And I said, look, I'm not going

to tell you what you should or shouldn't spend your money on. What I'm going to ask you to do is reflect on the importance of that purchase in your life. And she said, my latte in the morning is the best part of my whole day. I walk into the coffee shop, the person knows my name, he smiles at me, I don't even have to order. And it just sets everything off on the right foot. And I said, do you Go back later. And she said, yeah, I go back

in the afternoon too. And I said, tell me about that. And she goes, oh, you know, I just go grab another coffee because I'm hungry or tired or whatever. And I'm like, okay, that's the cup you skip. Don't skip the first one because that one is actually meaningful to you. Right. Find some other way to save that money. And the second quick story is one that we practiced. I don't know if you can see from the background. I live in an old house, over 100 years old, and it needed new windows.

And for a very long time, every single time I thought about spending money, I compared it to window units. How many windows would this purchase be worth? Because we have 53 custom sized windows in this house. It was appalling, right? And Those windows cost 1000 bucks each. Like it was outrageously expensive and so. Need a new tv? Don't need it that much. Need a new pair of shoes. No, I don't because that's half a

window or a quarter of a window. So there are ways you can start easing into this sort of bigger philosophical picture as well, especially if you find yourself feeling a little overwhelmed by trying to tackle it top down, which I think some people may. Vicki, can I jump in? Yeah. I'm curious about this because of the comments about your money story. And it's almost like we go to financial planners, like we go to therapists to tell the secrets that we won't tell anybody

and to try to heal by ourselves. I was just with a group of people who chose to talk about their early experiences with relationship. And what I noticed is that universally we were inept. We knew nothing when we started, and universally there was shame. And so I wonder if anybody is aware of groups. Not debtor. Maybe it's debtors Anonymous. But before you get there, like, I would love to, I would love to host groups if I had time, you know, that would just tell your money story. You know, it's

like, it's like it's all hidden. And then we go to authors to, you know, reveal the money stories. But this lateral thing of just like, yeah, I'm making these mistakes too. It would just be was it was just so reduce the stress around it. And also probably if we had a, a money story club, then we could start to brainstorm together about like, what are the strategies you're using? But somehow or another we keep ourselves in these shame, shame silos. I'm Andy and I have a money story.

Yes. And Andy, it doesn't have to be until you screw up. You know, excuse the expression. What if we. What if we had that. What if we could tell the. Tell the truth about our lives? Anyway, it's I love it. I see that everybody has great contributions and things to say. I'm going to move to segment two and then we'll continue in the face. Of financial setbacks like job loss or unexpected medical expenses,

a clear plan helps maintain stability. Begin by categorizing monthly expenses into essentials such as rent and groceries and non essentials. Prioritize areas to cut back. Create a realistic budget that prioritizes your essentials and adjust it regularly to stay on track. When debt payments become challenging, communicate early with creditors. Many offer relief options like deferred payments or temporary reductions in interest to increase income.

Consider freelance or gig Work skills or hobbies can also become income sources through platforms or local opportunities. Utilize available community resources including financial assistance programs and benefits like unemployment or food assistance. Financial counseling from organizations such as the national foundation for Credit Counseling can offer

valuable guidance for navigating debt and budgeting. Taking proactive steps in each of these areas can support resilience and facilitate recovery during difficult times. Yanely, you work for a really cool nonprofit. What community resources or programs do you suggest young people try to try to find, especially if they're facing financial challenges right now? Yeah, I mean I would definitely start with the nonprofit where I work. Right. I'm a little biased, but ngpf.org is a

free resource. It will always be free and it's got curriculum for young people. So as young as middle school, but primarily high school and even college students access our materials. We got lessons, we got games, activities, homework assignments, assessments that cover every topic under the financial education umbrella. Banking, budgeting, investing, taxes, insurance, paying for college, alternatives to four year college,

types of credit, managing credit. So you know, if any of these topics is overwhelming you right now, start by giving yourself the gift that keeps on giving, which is the gift of financial knowledge and financial literacy. Right. Then you can pass that on. And if you ever felt like, I wish I had a class that taught me about personal financ finance and money and taxes and all these things,

well, this is the class. And if you didn't get it in school, you can absolutely give it to yourself with our lessons at ngpf.org but I think for me it's more so than just sitting at home going through the lessons. I been through that, you know, I went to college and I felt very lonely in my room studying and writing papers late into the night. And it didn't excite me. Right. Because I'm a very extroverted person.

So if you're an extroverted person and you, and you grow and thrive in communities or in friend groups, then sitting at home doing assignments or reading about money and doing it in a silo, it's not going to bring you joy. And I think the problem with the financial literacy space and personal finance changing your financial behaviors is that it can feel so lonely.

So the more you can plug yourself into, whether it's a slack group, whether it's a Facebook group, whether it's a challenge like hashtag no spend November, you know, social media is great for this because it turns something that is often this lonely thing that's full of shame and turns it into a social thing that's full of joy. So for me, you know, social media played a huge role in my enjoyment of changing

my money mindset and starting to get my life together financially. Stop being a hot mess and you know, pay off my credit card and connect with people who were also on debt freedom journey. So, you know, if you're feeling alone and that's a big issue for you right now, and then on top of that, overwhelmed with how much knowledge there is to learn, then definitely plug yourself into groups. Slack groups, Facebook groups, social media. Great place to start.

Yeah, I think we, I think Vicki's onto something with the money stories Club Rose Jean chimed in, she loves the idea. She's on LinkedIn. Joe, I want to ask you about a money story of yours. You were once $81,000 in debt. I was just saying that raises my blood pressure. Tell us your resilient path to recovery. I think my blood pressure was slightly high during that whole, whole event, but I think it's hard to follow the mic drop

moment. Wait a minute. You know, is an extrovert. I find that hard to believe. Really? Yes. Doesn't seem to be an extrovert at all. But seriously, my path changed like a lot of people's. You know, Vicki talked about money story. My money story was I was on the way back from meeting with high powered, high income, high net worth clients. I was a great advisor for other people. I was a financial mess.

I had over $80,000 in debt. In fact, I couldn't get a new, I couldn't get a new to me car because A, I couldn't afford one and B, nobody would give me a loan. You know, it's funny, a friend of mine even told me, he said, oh, Joe, I know you don't want a new car. But these, these car dealerships, they offer loans to everybody. I am a testament to tell you. I went in there and the dude goes, I'll be right back after he looked at my credit. And he comes back

and just goes, oh, man. Oh, man. And I went, yeah, but I ran out of gas on the way home from meeting with clients. And it's funny, because talk about shame. Here I am giving a bunch of advice to other people, and this is the time that I cried about my money. You know, there's a statistic from a great nonprofit group that talks about the number of people that cry about their

money, and it's about half of us. And by the way, you'd think that that is more often people living paycheck to paycheck like I was then. But actually, even high net worth individuals just a smidge less cry about their money because to Vicki's point, their money's going one way and their values are going a whole different way. And they know it, and they don't really know how to change. But for me, I ended up. Sounds like an old guy story. I walked a mile. I literally walked a mile to uphill. I'm

sure in snow. It wasn't snow, but. But I walked a mile to a gas station. The dude did not want to give me a gas. A little plastic gas tank because he thought I was going to steal it. And I took 85 cents I found in the cushion of my car, and I filled it with as much gas as I could get. Somehow I made it home after I convinced the guy to give me the gas tank. But I realized this. There was a lie that I was living. And

there was also something that I need to realize. The lie I was living was if I just make more money, I'll solve all my problems, right? If I just make a little more. Make a little more. Well, without having the value system, we talking about what's important to me, no matter how much money I made. I mean, this was. This was the mid-90s, and I was making maybe $90,000 a year. So you extrapolate this. That's almost $200,000 in today's dollars. If I

had made $200,000, I would have spent 220. If I made 250, I would have spent 280. If I made 400, I would have spent 440. It didn't make it. More money was not going to solve my problem. And I think a lot of people are living that lie. But the second Thing. And this gets to your resilience answer, Andy. And it's kind way to it, which is I had to realize that the brain that got me into this problem was not the brain that was going to get me out of this problem. I needed to find great people

with the heart of a teacher to help me. And once I did that, and I surrounded myself with phenomenal people and this reassurance that other people who, you know, aren't. Aren't geniuses have figured out problems way worse than this. And you can too. I immediately felt empowered. And it's funny because I still had the over $80,000 worth of debt. But once my mindset changed and I was in

control, everything felt so much better. I mean, when I was only 75,000 to 70,000 to 65 and $60,000 in debt, I felt like it was paid off because I knew that it was me and I can get this done. Yeah, that's impressive. Vicki, your thoughts? Thoughts? I'm sitting here thinking about it. When I wrote youe Money youy Life, I was living in a community of people who were all dedicated to not just financial education, but education about applying consciousness to the, you know, to

the entire flow of life, whether it was money or health or whatever. You know, we were really consciousness team anyway. We were eight people. We were sharing expenses. I lived on a ridiculously low amount of money a month. Probably about $700 a month. This was back in the 90s. Yeah. And you know, it crept up to 750 or 800, you know. And then, you know, life happened. Many things happened and we went out on our own. So suddenly I have rent. I have, you know, suddenly my expenses tripled or more.

And I didn't have a mindset. I had a mindset that frugality is my friend. Frugality is how I make it through. I didn't consider that community made a huge difference that, you know, social isolation. Being an individual is. Yeah, right. We got that right. Being an individual is more expensive than words than basically sharing resources with other people. And so I. I can't. I got into. I had to like heal myself of this. I called it cash register consciousness.

That if I bought something, if I did a splurge, I would actually have to go find somebody else I wanted and not buy it to like balance it out in my head, you know. So I basically, I got into hyper frugality and it was really not right. And I had to work my way out of that and into, you know, back up to enoughness rather than down to enoughness. And so that's one money story. There were six years of my life. I lived on $100 a month. But I grew a garden. We hunted and butchered and I did.

And I rebuilt the engine in my car. And I want to mention that this is sort of part of my message, is that money is not the only means of exchange. Skills are a means of exchange. I'm not suggesting everybody work in their car. I can't do it anymore because it's a computer on wheels. But, but, you know, the capacity to do for yourself just small things with a YouTube video or also the skill of communication, you know, like how many couples would save some money on counseling if they

could just communicate in a non defensive way? Now that's a big skill. So just to think about that, your skills are a currency that you're sharing resources, whether it's, you know, through free cycle or thrift stores or whatever. Sharing resources. Habitat for Humanity is another skill. These are not necessarily deprivation skills like, like, you know, like, oh, well, I want, you know, I want to, I want to go to wherever the

big stores are now and, and I get with something new. But you realize, oh no, I'm smart. I got that great blouse for like, you know, a dollar. So yeah, I just want to drop that in to the conversation because, also because this idea of resilience and bouncing back, that's in terms of, of the financial markers of resilience, like I've gotten in debt, I can bounce back out of debt. But there's also, you know,

we're living in a context of disruptions. You just think about the people in Asheville or the people in Valencia right now. There's like larger conditions that are forces in our lives that we're sort of cringing, thinking, I hope it doesn't happen here. And so the skills of community, the skills of communication, there's a lot of skills that we can build to be able to work with our neighbors and work with our own consciousness, to be able to ride those

waves. And so I would also drop that in as a resilience skill. What am I, can I, can I mention something there, Andy? Because Vicki, I really like what you're saying there. One of my favorite segments on our podcast, every year we have on a guy talking about fire prevention and about, you know, the best insurance you can have at your home, wherever it is, is having a fire plan. And all of us, I'm sure when we were kids, if you went to a school, they would always do what if there's a

tornado. I lived in Michigan. If there was a tornado, if there's a, whatever. We had all of these, all of these prevention things, and yet we get to life as an adult and we don't do that anymore. And I love the idea of building the skill ahead of time. I know that one of my favorite quotes, and you know, this is, I'm not sure I love the messenger, but I love the message. Jack Welch back in the 90s

said, Change before you have to. Right. And Jack Welch, definitely not a lot of people's best friend, the way he ran his companies. But I love that message, that if we, if we know ahead of time because we've done it when we didn't need to, that I can earn more if I need to. I can spend less if I need to. I can change course if I need to. Just through a course of, quote, fire drills. I think we're going to be way better off because we can do

these drills when we're calm. So when we're not calm and our blood pressure's up, we can, we can make some fairly, you know, cognizant decisions. Yeah. And you did a lot of surveys in preparing your book and focus groups about how much, how people feel, how are you doing with your money? What did you

learn? You know, it was fascinating. I surveyed a thousand people between the ages of 21 and 45 and asked them questions about sort of how much they had in the, in investments, how much they had in the bank, what their credit card debt was like, if they had a mortgage, you know, student loan debt. And then I asked a series of questions about how they felt, about how they were doing. And then I did the classic researchers two by two

matrix. You know, on one axis was how well do you think you're doing? And on the other axis was how well do you are you doing? So how well are you doing? How well do you think you're doing? And only 12% of the people thought they were doing well and were doing well. 12%, another sort of 15% or so, were doing well but didn't know it. I would call them the worried. Well,

about 50%, 49% were not doing well and knew it. But then whatever that difference was, you know, another sort of handful of people, maybe 25% or so, were not doing well but thought they were. And that to me, was a really interesting group because they were anchoring their views on how they were doing by looking at their peers and often saying, well, I'm doing about the same as my Peers are, so that must be

fine. The other thing I found very scary, as someone who works a lot with the 401k system, is a lot of people in that group also said, my employer has defaulted me into my 401 system, so I know I'm saving enough. And often employers only default people into their savings programs at 3%. And we all know 3% is not enough to be saving. You need to be saving probably around 15% to be able to retire sort of in your mid-60s and maintain your style of living.

So this notion of, well, I must be doing okay because somebody told me somebody did, right, is just a lack of engagement, but also, I think, reflective of how difficult it is for many people to feel like they can actually dig in and answer some of these questions themselves. But that, that was a very interesting, interesting group of work. And then I actually broke those categories of people. I went and did focus groups with the

same sort of characteristics. And the things I learned from the focus groups were also interesting. So that statistic, what I just said about, you know, I know I'm saving enough because I'm saving what my neighbor is or because

my employer told me to save that much. The other thing that was fascinating is that 12% of people that were doing well and knew it, all of them except one of them, had had a family member or family friend take them by the hand when they were in their sort of early to mid teens and teach them about money, budgeting and investing. So that happened much earlier than I think most of us think is sort of normal, right? We wait for kids to be older. We wait till they have

their first paycheck if we start talking about money. Fun fact. Most families would rather talk about sex than talk about money with their children. So there's, you know, just that small group of people, right, Were taught when they were younger than most of us think, you know, is necessary. And that's when those habits really start getting ingrained. So I thought that was fascinating as well. That is fascinating. Let's go right into segment three.

Building a resilient mindset is vital for handling financial challenges effectively. Resilience involves seeing financial setbacks as manageable obstacles rather than insurmountable issues. A key trait of resilience is an internal locus of control, the belief that personal actions can impact outcomes. Motivating proactive steps toward financial recovery. To manage stress, develop healthy routines such as regular

exercise, quality sleep, and balanced nutrition. Techniques like meditation, dedication, and progressive relaxation also help manage acute stress. Strong social support networks provide emotional grounding and practical guidance during difficult times. Improving financial literacy is another essential step. Understanding budgeting, investing and debt management builds confidence and control.

Practicing mindfulness can reduce financial anxiety by promoting focus on the present, while setting realistic financial goals offers a sense of progress. Remember that mental health affects financial decisions, and seeking support from professionals when needed can be invaluable for navigating financial stress. So, Anne, in the previous segment, you talked about the importance of having a relative or someone you know, giving you some valuable insight into

how to better manage your money. How would you recommend people manage financial stress and really keep a resilient mindset? I think we've talked about some of those things. Again, the money circles. Finding groups of people you trust, whether that's anonymously online or whether that's your best friend from childhood can be huge. Something I do with my best friend from childhood, actually, because we still talk every week. Week is ask to be accountability partners. And we don't often, you

know, share all of our business with the other person. Right. But it's like, hey, I've got this goal I'm working on. Will you hold me accountable and help me stay on track? I don't have to tell you what the size of this thing I'm trying to do is, but just, you know, help be that port in a storm for me. Obviously, you know, financial professionals can be very helpful. There are such things as financial therapists out there,

believe it or not, but like licensing. So that might be a solution for somebody. But I think you can do some of this work by yourself, too. I think, Joe, the story you told about knowing that you had a plan and that you're executing it, to me is one of the most important steps in building resiliency. So having a plan A, which is maybe what you're doing, and then a plan B and a plan C and a plan D. Thinking through what you would do if a job loss happened. What would you do if you had

a big expense? Right. So that you're not in that moment of panic trying to figure it out, because that's when you make mistakes that you'll regret. The idea of knowing what expenses I can cut tomorrow is a very powerful thing and gives you more control over kind of moving those dials if something happens that you need

to. So I think it's a combination of finding people in your life you can trust, spending some time with yourself, journaling, being reflective again on maybe just a day of spending what was important, what wasn't important. There are a bunch of hacks and tips in my book, and I'm sure all of us have written similar things about ways to look at unconscious spending apps you might have subscribed to and don't even notice it. There are tons and tons of things that

you can start identifying. But again, I think one of the most important things is to do it in a moment of calm before you need the resilience. Right. That Jack Welch quote is a terrific one. Right. Change before you need to, or at least know how you'll change when you have to is at least a first step. I'm really struck by Vicki's, I guess, extreme frugality and kind of marching to

the beat of your own drummer. I'm curious, how does adopting a sustainable lifestyle impact your money and contribute to a resilient mindset? Well, I think it has to do. It's like that. It's like the whole package. It's the enoughness, how much is enough and how much is enough as guided by values

and happiness. And also the question, what would this expense look like if I wasn't just like a hamster in a wheel, you know, just like I'm spending, you know, X amount on, you know, something, if I weren't in this, like, wild, you know, struggle to stay afloat, would I be spending that money? It's like the afternoon latte, you know, it's like, would I be spend, you know, would I do the, you know, the morning latte? Yes. Yeah. Worth my life energy.

Afternoon latte, not so much. And I think, you know, sustainability has to be. It has to be a social event. It can't be. I think hyper individualism is one of the biggest drivers of stress in our society, of alienation,

loneliness. And, you know, I used to say that the consumer culture is brilliant at breaking bonds between people and having you bond with products instead, you know, so basically, you know, forming community, like, you know, whatever the circles you're in, you know, whether it's, you know, your weekly call with your best friend from, you know, college or whether it's your book club or, you know, whatever it is, whatever circles you're in can be the social

support. Even the content doesn't have to be that where you don't feel the anxiety that I have to buy more in order to feel happy. And it's also using realizing that a healthy society has a lot of consumption that you don't have to pay for yourself. The benefits like the public library, the public transportation, the, you know, public infrastructure, the, you know, the public safety. You know, there's like, when you realize that, like we're right now in a presidential election. When you

realize that this is not socialism, this is. I invite, I'm voting to make. Maintain the free infrastructure that benefits my life. So that's, that's why I, you know, I. I'm, you know, I value communitarian. That could be just village or city, you know, like the trash collection that goes that way and, you know, a lot goes away. You know, like keeping up the infrastructure, the pipes, you know, in your village, you start to think in terms of, I am

a social being, I am not an individual. When you start to think I'm a social being, it makes a real difference in how you spend. For example, some people are, you know, like, wild about books. I have a. In my library, it's called Libby. I can borrow any book, you know, on my phone. So it's like, oh, I don't have to buy books. Oh, I don't have to buy a new car. If my community has good public transportation,

that's a big expense. You start to think about that and then you start to possibly be active politically or socially to increase those things. I will just drop in. One little thing, my current hobby horse is what I call in home suites. I have a split entry house. I put a little apartment in the family room and a little apartment in my garage. And so those are two rentals. And so I have the power as a homeowner to create affordable housing without having to like, do some big

initiative that takes 16 years and, you know, eats up farmland. You know, it's just like, like there's, there's so much we can do. When we break out of the mindset that survival is an individual project. Who here wants to rent Vicki's garage and hang out with her? Y. You've demonstrated that, you know, you're a teacher, you have grit, you have this hunger to educate yourself. Reading a lot of books. How have you seen, like, young people? Has it been difficult to motivate them to approach

money with that similar vigor? You know what I would say no. I think they're so much more aware now than I was when I was their age. And then what. Probably we all were. Probably because of technology, because of social media. There's just much more of a conversation about issues that are affecting young people, like student loan debt and how unaffordable buying a home is for the first time,

huge problems. Yeah. And I. And so when we think about how much these things have become crises, not just issues that individuals are dealing with, it's like it's impossible to find a per, a young person today who is not privy to these issues. So I think it's become easier to make them aware and engaged. I think the hard part is convincing them that there's something that they can do about it now because a lot of young people that I talk to specifically in

high school and colleges, universities, they feel helpless, they feel powerless. They're like, you know, I go out there, I can make minimum wage. So in terms of my earning potential right now it's very limited. There's not much I can do. I, you know, I'm in school or I, you know, doing an apprenticeship or whatever it might be a trade program. And, and so they feel like they're, they're stuck. And I think that

as a young person, you tend to be very short sighted. Like you very much thinking about the next three years, the next four years, rather than thinking 15 years, 20 years ahead. And, and that's very hard to do when you've only been alive for 15 or 20 years total. So I get it. But I do think that that's one of the things that we have to do as the near peers or like older generations, is to like take them under our wing and explain to them how they can start to

think further out. And that can be really empowering. And like even just preparing, like this whole conversation is about mental fortitude and financial resilience. And part of that is exercises in doing so. Like thinking to yourself, when a challenge comes, when I'm struggling, when I run out of money, when I have terrible debt, what will I do? Because I think the problem is we don't imagine that we will mess up that bad or that things will be that

bad. But like Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong will. So we have to be prepared for anything. And I think younger people today, if we can explain to them and prepare them to think ahead. You know, in my book I write an exercise called Negative Visualization, which comes from stoicism, the practice of the stoics, which is to really sit and think what is the worst thing that could happen to you? And let's say financially, right? Go ahead and imagine now that it happened, it happened

now what? Because I think the reason why we're so, we struggle so much with bouncing back and financial resilience is because we, we are so shocked. We're stuck in the shock of it. We couldn't even possibly have fathomed that this could happen. And like these things happen all the time. Death in a family happens all the time. Right. You know, medical emergencies happen all the

time. So the, the, the idea that young people can sit and plan and think far ahead like that, I think is really empowering and is where the conversation needs to go rather than focusing so much on that short, you know, next two, next three years, next four years of their lifeline. I love that, you know, because one of my, one of my clients back when I was a financial planner, she was a brilliant woman, worked the state of Michigan

building highways. And she would always talk about, before we embark on any project, the first thing we do is we would gather up the whole team and we would talk about everything that could go wrong and we'd list out all the things that could go wrong and we would build a plan against all of those things, just so we mindfully thought about it before we begin

building. And how often, to your point, especially young people, you know, it comes at them out of the blue when somebody with maybe a little more experience under their belt would have said, wow, you know, it's not shocking that that happened. Right? Exactly. Ann, did you have something to add? You know, I just think this conversation is so, well, fun

because I'm a nerd, but important especially. And, you know, when we were, when you were talking earlier, Yanneli, about thinking forward, the other thing I was really struck by is this isn't true just in

sort of disaster preparedness. And I think, again, having that plan ab, B, C and D is a good idea, but also thinking about it in terms of the upside, because I think the other thing that's very difficult for people, especially, you know, as, you know, early investors, is actually understanding the power of compounding. Compounding returns if you're investing or compounding negative interest if you're

in debt. Right. And that power of compounding is such a, a long game because it doesn't really start piling up for 7, 10, 15, 20 years that you really see the weight of that. And, you know, I think there's some practical tips and exercises that we can do to help people understand just mathematically the power of compounding. But also something I was very struck by is how difficult it is for people

to imagine their future selves. And, you know, there's a lot of brain science behind that, but also the force of this present bias or future discounting that we have. You know, what I want right now is far more important than what I'm going to want tomorrow morning. Like if we stay up too late binging Netflix videos. Right. Tomorrow morning I want to get up and go for a run. But I got to finish this episode right now. And then you click skip intro

and then you watch three more episodes and it's 2:00 in the morning. Ask me how. I've never done that. I have never. But that little disconnect between what I want right now and what I think I want for myself in a rational moment is a lot of of I think what gets in the way too. So I'm a big believer in helping people understand a little bit behind the brain. Science can also help create room to start creating some more

automation like you were talking about, Joe. Right? Or spur that values sort of reflection that you've been talking so much about. Vicki. I think those are all amazing ways to try to get your arms around this fact that sometimes our brains get in our own way. Great. Let's go to segment four. We're going to talk about financial preparedness. Financial literacy is essential for building resilience, enabling individuals to make informed choices about budgeting, saving, investing and managing

debt. With a foundation of financial knowledge, people can plan for long term goals such as retirement home ownership and education, reducing the risk of future financial instability. A structured budget is key for tracking income, identifying savings opportunities and aligning spending with goals. Building an emergency fund with three to six months living expenses is critical and automating savings

can support consistent contributions. Key financial skills include debt management, prioritizing high interest debt debt, and understanding basic investing principles which can help grow wealth. Maintaining a good credit score also supports financial security, allowing access to favorable loan terms.

Numerous resources, including online courses, community workshops and educational tools are available to improve financial literacy, empower yourself with new skills to face financial challenges and work towards stable long term financial health. So I think for this segment we'll try something a little bit different. I have the same question for each of our panelists and I'm going to put Joe on the spot first, of course, what is one core financial skill or habit that anyone can start today

to strengthen their financial foundation? Oh, I'm glad you brought this up because no matter what you asked me, I was going to get to this point point. Because I think it's. Because I think it's super important, which is I believe all of this stuff. I think the name

of this whole game is courage. Right. And I feel so much gratitude to be here with you, Andy, and with three amazing authors who help people get more courage to do the things that to take that next step that we all know that we need to take in our lives. Whatever it is, I think Everybody knows what it is internally, and it's going to be different for everybody. But I think the big thing behind courage isn't your credit report, which having credit

gives you courage. I think an emergency fund gives you courage. I think building savings gives you courage. But I think that the biggest thing is really what we've kind of been talking about more, which is for me, comes back to a great author named Carol Dweck and this idea of having a growth mindset. And what I love about growth mindset, and I think this is the key skill that we need and we're seeing it. By the way,

you know, Vicki referenced that it was election season. I didn't know it was election season. I had no idea. Like, I haven't had 50 million things on my phone and being attacked from all sides. Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited for this to be over. But I think the issue I have a lot is that for many people, we spend so much time defending our decisions, our poor decisions or our poor ideas, rather than thinking, defend where I'm wrong,

asking ourselves, where might I be wrong? Where might I be able to grow? Where might I be able to get more goodness in me, you know, to do these things better? And I think the cool thing about a growth mindset and, you know, our whole show is based on the science of play, right? Let's play open up the Roth ira. It takes some courage to open up your first Roth ira. You don't know how to invest it, mess it up. Go ahead and mess it up. You know what you're going to grow by

messing it up. We learned so much more when we fail than we do from the high five we give ourselves when we think we got it right. So I think the core competency we need is to switch this defending myself and all the stupid stuff I'm doing and instead go, how can I grow and be more, do more? You know, a core financial skill or. Habit, I would say, for a habit, is to start talking about money in

ways that might be a little uncomfortable. Challenge yourself, push yourself to go there. You know, I'll give an example this morning, and I'm going to pull up my phone to read it because I don't want to paraphrase it, but this morning I got a text from a good friend of mine. We hadn't talked in a little while, and she texted me randomly this morning super early, like, was the first thing that I woke up to. And she said, hey, good morning,

babe. I hope you're doing well. I feel like you've chatted about this with me before, but I wanted to get your take on this. What do you think the root of feeling guilty for making more money than our parents is? And we just went back and forth, I want to say, from 8:30 this morning to probably about 9:15, we texted back and forth. And it was therapeutic when I tell you, because she and I both have been dealing with this issue of being the ones who are

the retirement plan for ourselves and also for our parents. And so just her being brave enough to send me that text sex to say, hey, what do you think this guilt comes from? We talked about survivors guilt. We talk about feeling like we are going to leave them behind and they're not going to come with us when we succeed, you know, financially. We talked about where it's rooted in how we feel like we owe them because of the sacrifices that they

made for us. And being first generation, there's so much of that. And like when I tell you again, it was so therapeutic. Right? But we won't get any of that if we don't make that first, first take that initiative to make that first outreach to say, hey, I'm going to text this person, I'm going to call this person and ask them in a scheduled time to have a conversation with someone about this dark part of my financial situation that I'm not talking about because I'm actively avoiding

it, talk about it. It's going to help you feel so much better. It's going to help you do better financially, I promise. It's only going to yield good things. Nothing bad will come from you talking about money, being more open about money and really raw and real with the people that you trust and that are your support system. Love it. What a thoughtful and significant text thread that you and your friend

had, Ann. Boy, I'm Tor, and there's a couple of different things that have popping into my head, but I think especially since I focus so much on people that are sort of under 45, I want to focus on a very powerful thing which is promising yourself that you'll save more tomorrow, which I get sounds like a total cop out, but it's really all about avoiding consumption

creep because that's what gets us all in the end. And I know, Joe, you were talking about it wouldn't matter how much money you were making, you'd always spend a little bit more. I think consumption creep is what sets us off on the wrong foot. And right when you're starting out, if you're in your early 20s, you're making minimum wage, you're making a little bit more, you've got all these bills to pay. It's really hard to find

5 or 10% of your income to save. So maybe let yourself off the hook and maybe say, I'm not even going to try to do that. I'm just going to save 1% of my income because I need to build that muscle a little bit. But the next time you get a raise, and if you're young, you probably will get fairly frequent raises, save half of it. And then the next time you get a raise, save half of that. And then the next time you get a raise, save half of that.

And before you know it, you will be saving that 10, 15, 20% that you probably should be to keep, you know, get all those big goals that you might have for yourself in line. And you will do yourself a permanent favor by not letting your lifestyle increase at the same rate that your salary does. Because that is how we do not build up resiliency in the long run. That's how we just keep running behind that hamster wheel that Vicki was talking about.

So, you know, if you're older, if you're not in a position to think that you're going to be getting meaningful raises, you, it's going to be a little harder. But you can work on that in reverse. You can say, what am I going to cut out tomorrow? I don't have to make any sacrifices this nanosecond. But what's my plan, step by step, to reduce this? And oftentimes that lets you get over that initial resistance and denial that you might feel initially. And Vicki.

Besides all the good advice that people have already offered, I think that in your money, your life, it rests on self reflective consciousness. It rests on the willingness to observe your behavior and ask yourself the questions. You know, is it making me happy? Is it taking me where I want to go in life? And I have a friend who said he visits his money. He has, you know, I mean many of us have an online bank account or two or three or five or

however many. But, but you know, just the fact of opening up the app and taking a look at what you have, that self reflective consciousness, you don't even have to ask questions about it because your gut's going to be asking all sorts of questions. Just visiting your money will help you, will, will help true you, whatever, whatever direction you want to true yourself. And of course everybody's talked a lot about our guilt, about our guilt.

So you know, it's like not to be in youn Money youy Life, we have a mantra called no shame, no blame. You know, so you have to like do the mantra before you look at the online data. And sometimes it's just for me, it helps me feel better, you know, if I'm starting to feel I can look and I feel like, no, I have more money than I did last month. So good on you, Vicki. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. It's a great habit. So before moving on to the final segment, I want to throw this one

to Yanely before we move on. Let's do it. Rose asked, this is like one more text sent to you. Many people have asked me how they can overcome the feeling of being behind, been stuck due to their financial difficulties. What is the best answer I can give them to help them navigate around this feeling? Yeah, I mean, I think that this one is again, more the psychology than anything that you can really, you know, actively do. It's a mental barrier, right?

Like you, you're putting up this wall for yourself, saying I'm stuck here. And that's happening in your mind. Right? So I, I do think it really comes to this place of acceptance and like, you know, maybe, yeah, maybe you are stuck, but the only way to get unstuck is to start taking action. And the only thing preventing you from taking action is wallowing in

this negative mindset around being stuck. So I do think that so much of it comes to the psychology, comes to the money mindset, comes to the Carol Dweck work around growth mindset that Joe was talking about. It really comes to that self reflectiveness that Vicki mentioned and doing the work mentally, you know, in my book, the first chapter talks a little bit about my story and then the second chapter, which kind of pre is the precursor to all the other like tactical financial categories,

is to get your mind right. And I say you can't get your money right until you get your mind right first. And so to all those folks out there who are saying, you know, I'm really stuck and I, and I can't get past this place of feeling financially stuck. It's not the money,

it's the mindset first. And once you overcome that negative mindset and start to shower yourself with 18 times more positive money thoughts than negative, that's when you're finally going to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel and start taking steps, active financial steps, opening accounts, looking at products, comparison shopping. Those things won't

come until the mindset shift happens first. And so that means conversations, exposure to many different ideologies about money and ideas and opinions so that you can really begin to form your own and feel that strike of inspiration to take action. But yeah, you got to get your mind right first before you can get your money right. Yeah, I love it. I think it is about expanding your mind when you're stuck, read one book, listen to

stacking Benjamins like Yes. Get some new idea that can get you past where you're stuck and thinking of thinking about things a little bit differently. Let's wrap it up. We're going to bring it home with. Segment five Financial resilience provides long term benefits that contribute to greater security, reduced stress, and the flexibility to capitalize on opportunities. A resilient financial foundation acts as a

buffer against economic disruptions. With an emergency fund and diversified income sources, individuals can handle these challenges without sacrificing long term goals. Financial stability also supports mental well being by alleviating anxiety around financial uncertainties. Financial fostering a balanced

lifestyle and enabling personal growth. Resilience offers opportunities to invest strategically in undervalued assets during economic downturns or to pursue new business ventures potentially leading to significant financial growth. Achieving this stability involves proactive planning such as budgeting, saving and investing. Continuous learning about economic trends helps individuals make informed

decisions, strengthening resilience over time. With a solid foundation in place, people can work toward a stable, prosperous future that's adaptable to changing circumstances. And you, you mentioned the power of compounding in a previous segment. What strategies can help people to confidently pursue wealth building? Well, how long do we have? You know, it's, I want to pick up on something Joe said which is to have courage. You know, I think there are two wrong

things you can do. And the first wrong thing you can do is not save at all. And the second wrong thing you can do is leave your money deposited in cash and not invested in the market for long term savings for money that you don't need for 10 or 15 or 20 years. Other than that, everything else is some version of better to great, right? So out of the gate, I think, you know, I think for novice investors, for people who are just dipping their toes in the water, investing in the

broad US Stock market is a great thing to do. It's, you know, returns historically have been, you know, sort of north of 10% every year. If you get those kinds of returns in the future, and I don't know why we wouldn't that your money's going to double every seven years invested in that strategy, more or less, less. I Am a huge fan of multi asset funds or balanced funds, funds that combine some

stocks and bonds. That's what I used to do professionally. I'm a super big fan of target date funds, which are the kinds of funds people find in their 401k plan. I built and ran those for my former employer. And those plans offer a way to get invested without being overwhelmed by making decisions for yourself. So I think one of the biggest impediments to getting going is the fear of doing it wrong. And as Joe said, it's scary the first time you do it. What if I make a mistake? Well, guess

what, it's not that big a deal. It'll be fine. Just learn and shift and do it differently next time. We're all going to be able to look back at a multitude of mistakes that we've all made. Certainly I've made personally in my own financial life. And broadly speaking, especially if you're under 30 or 40 or, you know, maybe even 50, you've got some wiggle room and some time to recover. And so I think, you know, the fear of doing it wrong is probably the biggest impediment to getting

going. But staying in things that offer diversification that don't require you to make a lot of decisions is a great way to start because that way you don't get overwhelmed and flooded with anxiety about doing it wrong. Vicki, in your book you talk about tracking your expenses and your income and then reaching a crossover point where your investments can take care of your monthly living expenses. And at that point, it's

almost like things are on autopilot. You're enjoying doing the things that you enjoy because you're not reliant on doing a 9 to 5 job. Have you made mistakes? What kind of money mistakes have you made? Even when you are rebuilding a car engine and doing all these things that are so different from the rest of us. Geez, I want to drop into something else because I'm not even a big advocate of early retirement anymore.

I'm an advocate of finding work that conforms to your values and makes you happy. But and this might seem counter what everybody's saying, and maybe it is, I've been very concerned about what my money is doing in the world. You know, like how do I. Growth is inherently unsustainable collectively because, you know, the level of debt, you know, the interest has to come from somewhere. So. And it comes from the growth economy. And the growth economy is what's eating through the living body of

the earth. So I mean, we're In a, like a dilemma here, if you have those kind of social and environmental values. And I know a lot of people struggle with that and I know a lot of probably younger people struggle with that because you don't want to support the system that you don't want to have persist. So, so I have a couple of things. One is that there is a website, there's an organization, I think it's a nonprofit organization called as you sow, sow,

like reap what you sow. And they do an evaluation of funds according to investment in the military, investment in, you know, oil and gas and you know, so basically you can choose funds that may not return. They may not have the same qualities as, you know, an index fund, but they will return. Also the value of tucking your money away where you really feel like it's industries you want to support or it's not in

industries you don't want to support. And one of the things I've done locally, we had a. It's not happening anymore. The pandemic sort of ruined it all social systems. But we had a group and I still do it for local investors and people in our community who had a business idea or who wanted to expand a business would put a proposal into this group. And it's not that we would decide collectively what to, you know, whether to fund it or not, but that

individuals could make deals. And so I invested in a lot of businesses. You know, I invested in a pet store, in a flower shop, and I put money into the kinds of businesses that I wanted to see grow in my community. I had a consciousness of making my community in general more resilient. I've put a lot of money into the farmers. I actually bought out a mortgage for one farmer who I really thought was going to make his farm

work. And it's all paid off. And in a way I say I store my money in the well being of my community. I'm not saying other people should do this. I have the privilege of doing that because I have a lifetime of, you know, I have a lifetime of doing this frugality and I have a set of values that allows me to do this. But I'm just saying that it's in addition to this standard good

habits. I am sure that the people that you work with are listening to this, have some queasiness about investing in the general stock market because they don't want their money to be funding the things that they don't want to see happen in the world. And so this as you so is another opera is a way for you to begin the screening of investments for the values that you have. Love it. We had Andrew Behar, CEO of As you so Exactly. Uninspired Money on a previous episode about

sustainable investors. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It all ties together and I would. Just underscore sort of maybe meeting Vicki. There are a number of investments you can make that don't require you to spend the time or energy, especially if you're a novice that Vicki is, but can give you that broad diversification that also line up with your values. And as you so is a tremendous resource to identify those as well. So it's kind of, there's a lot of ways to put your values to work, sort of where you

land on that spectrum. Exactly, exactly. I'm not recommending that you go to your farmers and say you could lend them some money. But. But yeah, as you sow or you know, there are, there are better funds that, that basically have social and environmental screens, you know, that you index on those kinds of screens. I love it. I love being able to have that bigger impact and with the potential that your investments are still winning, appreciating and growing and doing what it should for

you. Yanely, can you share? Like, how do you help your audience to focus on this long term stability? Ann mentioned the difficulty of thinking far out into the future about retirement. Like, how do you focus on long term stability rather than instant gratification? Yeah, I mean, I, I think naturally it's starting to happen, right. We're moving from the tick tock made me buy it to the hashtag generational wealth. And it's, it's sort of happening on its own, which is

beautiful to watch, I gotta say. But I think that it's really stop talking at them and talking to them and start listening to them. Right. Like, I ask more questions when I'm talking to folks now than I do gain information. And I ask, you know, what is it that you want in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years of your life? Like what, what will make you so happy? And most people don't say a new car, a shiny new toy, a gadget or whatever.

They say it's more time with the people that they love, it's more time with their kids, more time with their parents, limited time that they have with folks that they love that are aging. So in order to create more time for yourself, you have to free yourself from the trappings of working for in exchange for money that you need to live. And the only way to do that is to start investing. So I Think that the biggest thing is really getting it from them and not trying to give it to them. Hey, this

is what you need to do. This is what you should focus on long term wealth more. So asking of them what their priorities are and their values are and then highlighting for them how that aligns exactly with long term financial planning and investing over the long run. Because now, especially for younger people, there's always some shining hot new thing. If it's not the NFTs a couple years ago, then it's the,

you know, the, the meme stocks. If it's not the meme stocks, it's Nvidia. Oh, if it's not Nvidia, then, you know, so there's always something that's right in your face tempting you and you're constantly fighting like you're playing a game of whack a mole against a bunch of money hungry moles. And you have to really constantly put up that fight. And so it's in addition to the mental fortitude, it's also knowing why you're doing what you're

doing and having that why align for you. So for me personally, it's, I know that I don't want to spend my older years working in exchange for money. I want to be able to live off of the money that I've already grown. In order to do that, I have to be maxing out my 401k and my Roth IRA when it hurts in my 20s and in my 30s so that I can do more of what I love, volunteer and spend more time with my nieces and nephews and my family. Family in my late 40s

and 50s. You know, so I, I think that the natural shift of having people think decades out is starting to happen as we start to think more about generational wealth and what that term means. It takes at least a generation. It doesn't happen next week, next month, in a couple months. That's not, it's not that instant gratification kind of thing. And I think that, that people will listen to that more when it comes from them rather than coming from you.

Love it. The choices that you make when you're in your 20s and 30s can definitely have a huge positive impact on your future. Joe, you want to wrap a bow around this discussion for us? Joe, Just say something. Just dance. Joe. No, on that same topic, I think we have to remember the mission. If we begin with the end of mine, what are we truly trying to do to get financial security? And when you look at how big these numbers are, that freak so many people out that may

represent financial security. Of course, I think if we look at it through Vicki's lens, that we can do more with less. If we look at what we truly value, that number definitely gets smaller. But whatever that number is, it still freaks out people. And they're like, I'm never going to get there. So we know we have to beat inflation. And if we know we have to beat inflation, then to all these, you know, point, we've got 5 million get rich quick things we can invest in.

What I love about J.L. collins book is that he took that all off the table for new investors by saying, listen, if you just start off with the total stock market index, that's, that's the freak out factor goes down because you're going to be okay. Now, he didn't say it was the most efficient. To Vicki's point, it doesn't say it's the best because there's a lot of stuff in there you might not want to invest. But at the very least, I know that, that

if the economy continues, I will beat inflation. And now I can worry about a bigger driver. What am I going to do? Not what are my investments going to do. What am I going to do to make life better for me? Am I going to earn more money? Am I going to think more about my expense line? Am I going to drive the difference between those two bigger? I think if we begin with that, what do I have to do to get where I want to go? Then our subconscious brain starts working

on a plan. And then obviously all the stuff we've talked about, surround sound builds the courage to go do it. And it's an exciting journey. It truly is an exciting journey. Joe, you're the best. Well, you're the best. Are you kidding me? Look at who I'm here with. They're the best. This is one hell of a dinner party. Thank you all for joining. This has been an incredible, incredibly powerful discussion on

building financial resilience. If there's one big takeaway from today's episode, for me, it's that financial resilience isn't just about having enough money. It's about creating a foundation that allows you to handle life's unexpected challenges with confidence. And I loved courage. I loved community. These are the things that, that were really recurring throughout the different segments today. And our panelists really highlighted

that. Building resilience. It's a journey. It starts with small, consistent steps like saving, budgeting, and being mindful of our choices. Here's one quick challenge for you. The Inspired Moneymaker this week, just take five minutes to review one financial area in which you want to improve. It could be checking out how much you have saved for emergencies. It could be just reviewing your online accounts and just looking at it.

And I love the idea of automation. So maybe you can set up one automatic transfer to a savings account, but that just one small action today it can strengthen that financial resilience muscle that we talked about. And over time the small steps really add up and you'll be able to face life's curveballs like a dying ash tree behind my house, with a little bit more stability and peace of mind. If you found today's episode valuable, please consider

sharing it with a friend. Subscribe to the Inspired Money YouTube channel. Thank you to our panelists for hanging out way beyond. They stepped up and served way beyond expectation. Please follow them. You can find Vicki Robin at vickirobin.com. Read "Your Money or Your Life." Read "Blessing the Hands That Feed Us." Listen to her podcast "What Could Possibly Go Right? at Resilience.org.

Joe Saul-Sehy, you can find him at Stacking Benjamins, stackingbenjamins.com or joesaulsehy.com if you want to look at pictures of Joe speaking, you can go there. Anne Lester, her book "Your