00:00:00.717 --> 00:00:06.817
How does a man who'd been drinking his entire life suddenly stop drinking,
00:00:06.997 --> 00:00:12.937
find himself signed up for the Tour de France when he didn't even own a bicycle?
00:00:13.497 --> 00:00:19.057
And did I mention this isn't a young guy? I'm talking about a guy who's 50 years old.
00:00:19.877 --> 00:00:23.617
Obviously, limitations are off the table today, my friend.
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You are about to hear one of the most powerful stories from one of the most
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amazing people you will ever encounter.
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By the end of today's episode, you will discover the power of resilience,
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the beauty of self-discovery, and how one man's courage can inspire you to conquer your own mountains.
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It is my utmost pleasure to welcome you to episode 315, 2018 my interview with
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none other than Andy Smith. Welcome to the podcast.
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Yo, are you ready to flip the script on life? Because those bad days,
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they're just doors to better days.
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And that's exactly what we do here at Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
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Your host, Kevin Lowe, he's been flipping the script on his own life,
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turning over 20 years of being completely blind into straight up inspiration,
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motivation, and encouragement just for you.
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So kick back, relax, and let me introduce you to your host, Kevin Lowe.
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Andy, man, what a pleasure to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast.
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Yay. I'm so glad to be part of this.
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Following your story, what an inspiration.
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And one of the best things about doing what I do now is I get to meet people like you.
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So, yeah, look forward to having a great chat.
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Oh, man. Well, thank you so much, man. That means a lot to me.
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So let's kind of take us back kind of to childhood.
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I always love to kind of get an idea. And I think in your story,
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you know, it's going to be pivotal to just kind of understanding leading up
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to, you know, the events of your life.
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And so take me back, talk to me about where you grew up at, what life was like
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for you as a kid, and we'll work from there.
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Amazing. Yeah. I mean, I was born in the north of England.
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And when I was seven years old, we moved up to the Shetland Islands,
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which for those of you who are not sure where that is, it's a small group of
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about 100 islands that is basically forms the northernmost part of the UK.
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It's sort of on the way to Iceland, sort of adjacent with Norway and very,
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very remote part of the world.
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I grew up on the island of Bresse, which is about seven miles by three, 300 people on it.
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And in the early 70s, when we moved up there, it was like stepping back into a different century.
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There was no car ferry.
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If you wanted a car on the island, you had to befriend somebody with a fishing
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boat who would crane it onto the deck and take it over for you.
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And just an extraordinary place for a young guy to grow up.
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Very free to go and do what you wanted. but not, I guess, by a lot of people's
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standards, maybe people who've grown up in a city and things like that.
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There's not a lot of things to do, so you kind of have to make your own entertainment.
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No cinemas. There was only one TV channel when I was growing up.
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Yeah, so you really were left to your own devices in terms of how you passed
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your time, but a spectacular place,
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loads of wildlife, life, grew up messing about in boats and fishing and going
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and working on the local farm and all this kind of thing.
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And I guess one of the things that had come to define my life,
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a huge drinking culture.
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I actually grew up in a big old house that we moved into that was more or less
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completely completely derelict.
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And there was, I think, about two usable rooms in this big three-story house,
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about eight bedrooms, and the ceilings were hanging down.
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And it was quite an interesting place.
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There was rabbits living in it. There was rats, you name it.
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And so we fixed that up and turned it into a guest house and a pub.
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What could possibly go wrong for a young guy in that sort of situation.
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Very, very happy childhood, but from quite an early age,
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developed quite the taste for what I would call the Shetland diet,
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which was Tennant's lager and McEwan's export beer washed down with copious amounts of whiskey.
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So from probably about 13 years old, I was very much sort of embraced that culture.
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It was good fun, lots of interesting times, but everything sort of revolved around alcohol,
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whether it was a dance at the local hall or whether it was watching people in
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the pub, which was my home,
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where our very livelihood depended on people consuming copious amounts of alcohol in our house.
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So it kind of had quite a big impact on me, I think, culturally to sort of realize
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that in order to prove yourself as a man,
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as it were, that as a young man growing up, that.
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You're the size of your manhood was measured by how far down a bottle of whiskey
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you could get before you either threw up or fell over, basically.
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So it was quite the baptism of fire.
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And very much one of the sort of the phrases was, if you couldn't had your drink,
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as they would say up there, then you were a bit of a failure.
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And that carried with me throughout my whole life of this kind of desire to sort of prove myself.
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And, you know, drinking was a big part of that.
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Yeah. Wow. How old were you when you would finally move away from there?
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So I went away to university when I was 18, went to Edinburgh,
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the capital, and studied physics at uni.
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But again you know quite a
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big part of being a student certainly in
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Scotland is having a good time party
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party party and my folks I'm very grateful
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that I'm 58 now and my folks are still alive and they still live up there so
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we're actually looking at a holiday to go up and it's a place that is very dear
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to me in terms of I think there's something very special about growing Growing up on an island,
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you very much can sort of walk the coastline.
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You feel part of the landscape, as it were.
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I always make a point of when I'm going home of just touching the ground.
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And it feels very special that you have this thing that is quite separate from,
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you know, the islands around it, but actually is also connected underneath the sea.
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So it's a very, very special place. but I live in England now.
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I've spent most of my professional career living in various different parts
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of the UK, but it's where I consider to be home. Yeah.
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Oh my gosh. I mean, it sounds absolutely just beautiful.
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In every sense of the word. What a magical place and so amazing that you still
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get to go back there today and experience it with your parents. I absolutely love that.
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And yeah, and it's a very beautiful landscape.
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It's a sort of place that on a beautiful day, I would really challenge any place
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to be a more beautiful part of this planet.
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But the weather, obviously, given where it is,
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is a little mixed shall we say uh it's
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quite funny when people go to visit they might say
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oh why are there no trees uh around here and you say well come back in september
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and then you'll realize that basically any tree worth its salt is going to get
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blown flat and yes you know very windy very wet so lots of long dark nights
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all the more time for drinking really it's yes wow Wow.
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Now, one thing I was kind of curious about growing up in this type of culture,
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in this environment, did you always intend on going away to college or did you
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ever think about not going to college?
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Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think I was probably steered by my parents.
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I think particularly my dad, who was keen for me to pursue further education.
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I was, I was pretty bright at school, did very well in all my exams,
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but I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
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So physics was my sort of passion.
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It was what I was good at and it made sense to go and study that at university.
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And, and it's interesting as a father now myself and having,
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you know, experienced sort of trying to encourage my kids to go and pursue pursue their passions.
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I think my dad saw what was sort of potentially a, uh, you know,
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a good adventure for me and sort of encouraged, cajoled, kicked me to go and pursue this.
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Yeah. So I kind of drifted, I drifted into it.
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And to be fair, I've probably not really been back living there full-time since
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cause just career and things like that now is, is taking me to other parts of
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the, of the country. Yeah, absolutely.
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I love it. What career path would you end up taking after college?
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So I, I, I went into one of the big sort of blue chip retailers.
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A company called Marks and Spencer in the UK into their sort of management training
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scheme, which was a quite a good grounding.
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But then I went to get a sales job in the pharmaceutical industry.
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And that's probably where I've spent most of my career in healthcare and gradually
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becoming more senior in management roles, running divisions of pharmaceutical companies.
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I've run dental companies, veterinary companies.
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So it's just been kind of interesting how I've always...
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Sort of drifted towards the healthcare side of things.
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And given what I do now, it's just, it's kind of funny how life sometimes gives
00:10:48.195 --> 00:10:52.815
you little clues along the way around where maybe your destiny may lie.
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And I find myself really putting some of the experience in my kind of earlier
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career to good use in terms of what I'm doing now.
00:11:02.795 --> 00:11:07.255
Yeah, I love it. You know what? I, I love that because I often say that I feel
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like lives or each of our lives are like a jigsaw puzzle.
00:11:12.435 --> 00:11:17.455
And, you know, all along the way, pieces, they start getting fit together.
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And many times we don't take an opportunity, though, to ever try and look at
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things from a big picture until much later on.
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And I think a lot of times when we do sit back and look at a big picture,
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we can see exactly like what you said, where there were little clues.
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Lose. There are little things when you look back on life that have led you to this place.
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Well, I love the movie Slumdog Millionaire. You've probably come across it.
00:11:43.315 --> 00:11:50.095
And I just love the kind of the narrative that everything you go through in
00:11:50.095 --> 00:11:56.175
your life, good, bad, and indifferent can have meaning somewhere further down the road.
00:11:56.335 --> 00:11:59.055
And I think it's one of those things that as you you get older,
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you start to see the value in painful experiences.
00:12:03.855 --> 00:12:10.555
You start to see the value of people who come into your life and they're there
00:12:10.555 --> 00:12:12.415
for a reason. They're there to teach you something.
00:12:12.455 --> 00:12:16.175
And sometimes those lessons are uncomfortable and sometimes they're there to
00:12:16.175 --> 00:12:18.315
inspire you to go and do other things.
00:12:18.515 --> 00:12:25.475
And sometimes it requires a passage of time in order to really understand the value of that.
00:12:25.831 --> 00:12:33.671
Yeah, absolutely. Talking more about kind of the alcohol side of your story,
00:12:33.711 --> 00:12:37.471
because I know I know that's really going to kind of lead us through really
00:12:37.471 --> 00:12:39.731
the rest of our of our conversation.
00:12:39.951 --> 00:12:45.631
Will you talk to me a little bit more about that of it's just impact on your
00:12:45.631 --> 00:12:48.111
your daily life, maybe even career wise?
00:12:48.431 --> 00:12:51.771
I would love to kind of hear a little bit more about that. Yeah.
00:12:51.911 --> 00:12:59.191
And, and I think, you know, when I was younger, alcohol was very, it was very exciting.
00:12:59.411 --> 00:13:03.351
It was something that you did with your friends. It was a kind of a social glue
00:13:03.351 --> 00:13:10.991
in absence of things like going to the movies or going to the bowling alley
00:13:10.991 --> 00:13:12.611
and things like that. None of these things existed.
00:13:12.811 --> 00:13:19.631
So we would just sit in a little shed somewhere and sit and drink and do various different things.
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And I kind of carried that narrative through the rest of my life.
00:13:24.331 --> 00:13:30.311
And then when I started working, and I was away, working away from home,
00:13:30.411 --> 00:13:37.571
maybe feeling a little bit isolated, alcohol, again, felt like a bit of an antidote to loneliness.
00:13:38.391 --> 00:13:41.871
I became more and more senior in my roles.
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And I found that I was using alcohol a lot in terms of relaxation.
00:13:47.011 --> 00:13:50.411
I was using it in terms of entertaining and it
00:13:50.411 --> 00:13:53.851
just became quite all-encompassing there
00:13:53.851 --> 00:13:56.871
were very little or very few parts of
00:13:56.871 --> 00:14:00.131
my life where alcohol didn't play a certain
00:14:00.131 --> 00:14:02.991
role and and it was fine
00:14:02.991 --> 00:14:06.791
for a while and then obviously you
00:14:06.791 --> 00:14:09.691
get in a relationship you get married kids come
00:14:09.691 --> 00:14:12.471
along and all of
00:14:12.471 --> 00:14:15.631
a sudden you start to feel that there's a slight shift
00:14:15.631 --> 00:14:18.791
there's a slight evolution where far from being
00:14:18.791 --> 00:14:21.831
the kind of the fun thing alcohol just
00:14:21.831 --> 00:14:25.291
starts to become something that's getting in the way and
00:14:25.291 --> 00:14:32.011
it's interesting how people will twist a narrative on things and i certainly
00:14:32.011 --> 00:14:40.551
did that and i was very successful i broke records i won awards for my coaching
00:14:40.551 --> 00:14:42.931
and influencing and management skills and,
00:14:42.971 --> 00:14:49.671
you know, was perceived as a real high achiever within the industry that I was in.
00:14:49.771 --> 00:14:57.151
When I moved into dental, I completely rewrote the rule book in terms of what
00:14:57.151 --> 00:15:01.091
was possible, took on a poor performing company and transformed it.
00:15:01.151 --> 00:15:05.211
Did the same when I went into veterinary. And all the while,
00:15:05.291 --> 00:15:13.411
I just told myself that to go and drink myself to sleep, basically, let's just call it that,
00:15:13.511 --> 00:15:16.411
on the sofa every night was...
00:15:17.118 --> 00:15:22.478
The actions of a high achiever. I work hard. I play hard.
00:15:22.578 --> 00:15:28.718
I remember when I got my first sort of big job in the retail company after leaving
00:15:28.718 --> 00:15:36.058
university, my manager at the time, and we're going back to the kind of mid 80s, the late 80s here.
00:15:36.478 --> 00:15:39.798
And he was very much, you know, well, you need to work hard and play hard.
00:15:39.798 --> 00:15:48.278
So I just took him at his word and assumed play hard meant just go out and,
00:15:48.278 --> 00:15:50.578
you know, obliterate yourself with alcohol.
00:15:50.958 --> 00:15:56.238
Don't get me wrong. I did lots of other things as well, which were great fun and things like that.
00:15:56.378 --> 00:16:02.018
But there was just this kind of general presence of alcohol in my life.
00:16:02.018 --> 00:16:07.798
I got married, a couple of amazing kids who are now 18 and 21.
00:16:08.038 --> 00:16:11.578
But then that marriage failed and alcohol was a big part of that.
00:16:11.918 --> 00:16:14.778
And I was I was deeply unhappy in the marriage.
00:16:14.818 --> 00:16:19.358
And it became my go to in terms of coping with that.
00:16:19.358 --> 00:16:22.658
That and and obviously I think anybody
00:16:22.658 --> 00:16:25.598
who's listening to this who's been married to somebody who drinks heavily
00:16:25.598 --> 00:16:31.438
would also understand that there is a real sort of difficulty that that goes
00:16:31.438 --> 00:16:36.858
with that so we just we were in this situation and where I was unhappy so I
00:16:36.858 --> 00:16:40.998
drank more then things would happen which made me more unhappy which meant I
00:16:40.998 --> 00:16:44.218
drank more and you end up in this kind of crazy cycle.
00:16:44.338 --> 00:16:49.878
And then that marriage ended and I moved on, met this amazing new woman,
00:16:50.038 --> 00:16:55.038
Louise, and we ended up having a, having a child together.
00:16:55.098 --> 00:16:58.098
Who's now he's 10 as we speak to this.
00:16:58.298 --> 00:17:08.038
And I tried to use that sort of change in my life as an opportunity to to really have a look at myself.
00:17:08.738 --> 00:17:15.998
And I did for a little while. And then I remember once Louise kind of saying
00:17:15.998 --> 00:17:20.478
to me, do you need to really be drinking as much as you are?
00:17:20.638 --> 00:17:23.578
And she came at this from a place of love.
00:17:23.738 --> 00:17:28.778
My ex came at it from a position of judgment. And I think when people are kind
00:17:28.778 --> 00:17:32.618
of really quite critical and things like that.
00:17:33.610 --> 00:17:38.630
Anybody who's struggled with any kind of addiction, even though you are doing
00:17:38.630 --> 00:17:45.590
something that on the face of it seems like a choice and you're kind of enjoying doing it.
00:17:45.610 --> 00:17:49.510
Actually, I think anybody who's really struggled with this would openly acknowledge
00:17:49.510 --> 00:17:51.750
that you feel terrible about yourself.
00:17:52.070 --> 00:17:56.270
Each day you say to yourself, right, today's going to be different.
00:17:56.390 --> 00:17:58.350
I don't want to wake up like this tomorrow morning.
00:17:58.510 --> 00:18:01.770
And you're full of good intentions and you go through the day.
00:18:02.270 --> 00:18:09.630
And then about lunchtime, the excuses start to kind of creep back in as to why
00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:12.010
maybe you could maybe just have a little drink and whatever.
00:18:12.170 --> 00:18:17.330
And then, hey, presto, off you go again. And you wake up again the following morning.
00:18:18.470 --> 00:18:23.150
And it's like the movie Groundhog Day. You just think, I seem to be unable to break the cycle.
00:18:23.330 --> 00:18:28.410
And I think if you've ever been in that situation, it is a deeply uncomfortable
00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:32.330
state of affairs. I used to wake up every morning hating myself.
00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:38.890
So if anybody were to judge me on that, I literally, I was full to capacity of self-loathing.
00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:42.130
And so I would be very defensive about it.
00:18:43.290 --> 00:18:46.310
And, you know, I would almost kind of stick two fingers up. It's like,
00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:50.430
well, you know, if you're going to criticize me for my drinking, then just watch.
00:18:50.710 --> 00:18:55.150
I will go and, you know, really go to town and I'll give you something to criticize me for.
00:18:55.350 --> 00:18:58.930
But Louise was very different. She just came at this from a position of concern.
00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:05.810
Of love. And just, I guess, a general sense of, I want you to be around to be
00:19:05.810 --> 00:19:08.130
a dad for our young son. You're a good dad.
00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:10.910
I see how you are with your older children.
00:19:11.810 --> 00:19:16.970
And, and I'm just really frightened that you're not going to be around for them.
00:19:17.130 --> 00:19:21.030
And, but even then that wasn't enough for me.
00:19:21.270 --> 00:19:26.650
It took me to get to quite a dark place and bearing in mind,
00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:31.070
you know, this is a guy who who was a supposed high achiever.
00:19:31.765 --> 00:19:36.445
I think to look on the outside, looking in, this is a guy who's got the big
00:19:36.445 --> 00:19:41.925
flash company car, the nice house, you know, looks like he's got it all under control.
00:19:42.405 --> 00:19:49.505
And yet on the inside, I was, I was just in a terrible state and I was on antidepressants.
00:19:49.565 --> 00:19:53.645
I mean, there's some irony there, you know, drinking something that is an addictive
00:19:53.645 --> 00:19:56.545
depressant each evening, only to wake
00:19:56.665 --> 00:19:59.485
up to take a tablet, which is an antidepressant in the morning,
00:19:59.585 --> 00:20:04.885
is a special kind of habit reserved for people who are struggling with this.
00:20:04.985 --> 00:20:09.345
But it all kind of came to a head where I was getting a lot of health problems.
00:20:09.785 --> 00:20:16.065
I was struggling with gout, which I think a lot of people kind of smile or smirk
00:20:16.065 --> 00:20:19.385
when you talk about gout because it's seen as kind of self inflicted,
00:20:19.385 --> 00:20:21.025
a bit of a slightly comedy disease.
00:20:21.585 --> 00:20:28.625
If you've ever struggled with gout, it is the most most painful thing that I have ever experienced.
00:20:28.845 --> 00:20:33.605
I got it in both knees and both ankles and gout in your knee is,
00:20:33.665 --> 00:20:39.145
it's a bit like somebody ramming a hot poker into the joint and twisting it
00:20:39.145 --> 00:20:40.345
every time your leg moves.
00:20:40.545 --> 00:20:44.705
And it is, it is very difficult to cope with. I was on painkillers,
00:20:44.705 --> 00:20:46.325
I was on preventative medication.
00:20:46.505 --> 00:20:50.705
And the only thing that would make me feel better if I was in the middle of
00:20:50.705 --> 00:20:53.645
an attack was to get drunk. It was the only kind of painkiller.
00:20:53.985 --> 00:20:59.245
The irony was after I quit drinking three months later, the gout disappeared
00:20:59.245 --> 00:21:01.265
and I was able to come off the medication.
00:21:01.525 --> 00:21:06.365
But at the time when you're in the, in the moment, it was, it was terrible.
00:21:06.425 --> 00:21:11.005
And I'd had a medical, I, uh, my blood pressure was through the roof.
00:21:11.085 --> 00:21:12.685
My cholesterol was through the roof.
00:21:12.785 --> 00:21:19.725
I was pre-diabetic and I just thought, wow, this is, this is not how I thought
00:21:19.725 --> 00:21:22.705
I would be at 50 years old as it was at the time.
00:21:23.345 --> 00:21:28.125
And, and then it all kind of came to a head with, uh, I was,
00:21:28.125 --> 00:21:32.885
I was in a, uh, our local supermarket and I had a panic attack and I,
00:21:32.905 --> 00:21:34.865
I'd never really had a panic attack.
00:21:34.965 --> 00:21:37.705
I'd had times, you know, I was living with a lot of stress and anxiety,
00:21:37.965 --> 00:21:43.365
but I thought I was having a heart attack. Uh, my skin was on fire.
00:21:43.885 --> 00:21:49.345
My heart was racing out of my chest and I started to lose consciousness.
00:21:49.485 --> 00:21:52.945
And I actually fell into one of the fridges in the supermarket,
00:21:54.445 --> 00:21:59.085
and was sort of helped up by this little old lady, this little frail old lady
00:21:59.085 --> 00:22:03.825
who's, you know, I'm a big guy and she kind of helped me to kind of sit up and,
00:22:03.885 --> 00:22:05.345
and she said, are you okay?
00:22:05.525 --> 00:22:09.485
And I was trying to make excuses like I'd slipped or something like that.
00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:12.185
And I remember I said, oh, just give me a minute. I'll be okay.
00:22:12.285 --> 00:22:16.185
And I sat there and I will never forget this moment of just sitting,
00:22:16.225 --> 00:22:21.325
looking at the floor and going, what are you doing here?
00:22:21.405 --> 00:22:25.785
This is crazy what you're doing. And so...
00:22:26.580 --> 00:22:33.120
That set me off on a little bit of a voyage of discovery.
00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:39.440
But again, with the absence of anything, I'd been to AA.
00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:48.220
I went to a few AA meetings and I just couldn't get my head around the whole
00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.060
live a day at a time for the rest of your life.
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.520
And the fact that I was there with people who'd been going to these meetings
00:22:55.520 --> 00:23:00.380
for years and years and years, and they didn't look to me like they were any
00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:03.640
further forward than I was.
00:23:03.820 --> 00:23:10.800
And I thought, well, what I'm hearing here was a lot of, you know, sad stories for sure.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.900
And there were some people who were in a terrible situation.
00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:18.780
And so my heart went out to them, but I just thought But knowing what I know
00:23:18.780 --> 00:23:24.520
about problem solving in the business world, this does not make sense to me.
00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:30.660
It does not resonate with me at all because there is no kind of place that I've
00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:35.720
been to before where just sitting talking about a problem ever solves it.
00:23:36.060 --> 00:23:41.900
And and so I went to a few meetings and there was a really sweet old lady.
00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:46.140
She bought me a book and and she said to me after a couple of meetings,
00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:48.700
she said, oh, do you, you know, how are you getting on? What do you think?
00:23:49.300 --> 00:23:52.520
I said, you know, I don't think this is right for me. And she kind of went,
00:23:52.560 --> 00:23:56.640
oh, that's because you haven't hit rock bottom yet.
00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:02.880
And, uh, I was like, well, that's kind of why I'm here. So I don't,
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.760
you know, that doesn't, so that doesn't happen.
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:10.500
And she was sort of saying that this was your kind of entry ticket that you had to lose everything.
00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.840
And sure enough, the people that I was in the meeting with were, you know, very few of
00:24:14.860 --> 00:24:18.020
them were working they didn't seem like they had particularly happy
00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:21.760
and fulfilling lives they were just kind of getting by and i
00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.800
i've kind of said with my tongue in my cheek in
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:27.760
the past that i felt a bit like i'd gone
00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:30.640
to weight watchers and only to be told that
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.200
i wasn't fat enough yet you know when
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.880
you're 500 pounds and you you've had
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.280
a heart attack then we can help you and and so
00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:43.760
i left that and thought okay the the
00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:46.620
answer must be elsewhere but i just couldn't work it out
00:24:46.620 --> 00:24:55.060
until i kind of got my own head around what might work for me and there was
00:24:55.060 --> 00:25:01.400
one very interesting day so not long after the incident in the supermarket i
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.320
was running late and i was running the veterinary company at the time.
00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:07.880
And I really did not get on with my boss.
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:10.640
I'd completely, I was brought in to turn the business around.
00:25:10.780 --> 00:25:15.940
The business had gone from declining at 30% per year to growing at 80%.
00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:21.040
And yet this guy just had a real way of belittling everything that I was doing.
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.980
And I'm a big boy. I...
00:25:24.897 --> 00:25:29.477
Didn't think that it would get to me, but it really did. And it really damaged
00:25:29.477 --> 00:25:32.837
my self-confidence. I was drinking more and more and more.
00:25:33.277 --> 00:25:40.237
And then one morning I was up early, showered, got a long drive ahead of me,
00:25:40.397 --> 00:25:43.897
got in the car, driving to go and get on the motorway.
00:25:44.037 --> 00:25:48.177
And this journey takes me past the railway crossing.
00:25:48.317 --> 00:25:51.177
And as I was driving up, I
00:25:51.177 --> 00:25:54.057
was about a couple hundred meters away and the lights started to
00:25:54.057 --> 00:25:56.857
flash that indicating that the barriers were about to
00:25:56.857 --> 00:25:59.717
come down so i started to pick up speed i
00:25:59.717 --> 00:26:02.637
put my foot on the accelerator to go and try and beat the barriers
00:26:02.637 --> 00:26:05.797
and as i got closer i slammed on
00:26:05.797 --> 00:26:10.217
the brakes i was just like what are you doing you know this is this is insanity
00:26:10.217 --> 00:26:14.737
to go and try and beat the train so i kind of screeched to a halt at the barriers
00:26:14.737 --> 00:26:20.777
and sat there kind of stewing in my own juice knowing i was going to be late
00:26:20.777 --> 00:26:23.417
for this meeting, anxiety levels through the roof.
00:26:23.617 --> 00:26:30.357
And then a very interesting thing happened. And I was sitting there and listening
00:26:30.357 --> 00:26:35.177
to the radio and the Michael Jackson song, the man in the mirror came on.
00:26:35.437 --> 00:26:43.897
And I've heard that song hundreds of times before, and I'd never really listened
00:26:43.897 --> 00:26:48.117
to it and kind of understood what the lyrics were all about.
00:26:48.117 --> 00:26:53.297
And that line in the chorus where it says, I'm starting with the man in the
00:26:53.297 --> 00:26:56.897
mirror and I'm asking him to change his ways.
00:26:57.477 --> 00:27:06.237
My entire life changed on one word, asking, because I'd spent literally 37 years
00:27:06.237 --> 00:27:12.117
beating myself up about the fact that I was drinking too much and all this kind of stuff.
00:27:12.117 --> 00:27:15.037
And this moment when I was looking at
00:27:15.037 --> 00:27:18.137
my reflection in the rearview mirror I just literally asked
00:27:18.137 --> 00:27:20.917
myself a question I just said are you willing to
00:27:20.917 --> 00:27:23.797
do what it takes to sort
00:27:23.797 --> 00:27:26.697
this out once and for all and it was almost like somebody
00:27:26.697 --> 00:27:33.257
else answered me back from the mirror and just went yeah I'm ready and it was
00:27:33.257 --> 00:27:37.097
the first time I'd really kind of meant it and then that set me off on quite
00:27:37.097 --> 00:27:43.657
a voyage of discovery to basically learn what I needed to learn in order to
00:27:43.657 --> 00:27:45.037
put this to bed once and for all.
00:27:45.877 --> 00:27:50.397
Wow. What a profound moment.
00:27:51.177 --> 00:27:57.897
And isn't it crazy how moments like this happen in the most just unlikely of
00:27:57.897 --> 00:28:03.617
situations and places, sitting, waiting on a train, listening to Michael Jackson
00:28:03.617 --> 00:28:05.457
and you have this moment.
00:28:06.136 --> 00:28:11.016
That's incredible. And also, I think that's kind of how life is, isn't it?
00:28:11.036 --> 00:28:17.476
If you think back to times when things have really shifted, they have rarely
00:28:17.476 --> 00:28:21.896
been, I think, or certainly for me anyway, but also with the people that I work with,
00:28:22.256 --> 00:28:27.696
they rarely are things that kind of creep up on you little bits at a time.
00:28:27.756 --> 00:28:33.856
They tend to be fairly impactful moments of generally quite high emotion as well.
00:28:33.856 --> 00:28:36.756
And yeah you know sometimes
00:28:36.756 --> 00:28:40.576
things will just snap into place and
00:28:40.576 --> 00:28:43.416
you just think actually i i i've had a moment of
00:28:43.416 --> 00:28:49.456
clarity here and it's funny that didn't give me the answers that i needed but
00:28:49.456 --> 00:28:54.716
it just made me ask a different question and somebody i was listening to an
00:28:54.716 --> 00:28:58.056
interview with somebody and they were talking not about alcohol but they were
00:28:58.056 --> 00:29:00.776
talking about when you're battling against yourself.
00:29:01.236 --> 00:29:06.496
He said, it's a bit like playing tennis and you're on both sides of the net.
00:29:06.636 --> 00:29:11.716
So it doesn't matter how hard you serve the ball, the ball will come back just as hard.
00:29:11.856 --> 00:29:16.836
And your opponent knows your every move. They know what, whichever shot is coming,
00:29:17.016 --> 00:29:18.936
they know how to respond to it.
00:29:18.996 --> 00:29:23.876
So you end up in this kind of war of attrition where you're both levering the
00:29:23.876 --> 00:29:27.136
ball backwards and forwards over the net. and it's a zero sum game.
00:29:27.356 --> 00:29:30.716
And that, that is how I felt at the time.
00:29:30.896 --> 00:29:35.356
But then there's this person that was being interviewed, said a really interesting thing.
00:29:35.436 --> 00:29:39.836
They said, well, but what if you beckoned that opponent over onto your side
00:29:39.836 --> 00:29:45.796
of the net and you became a doubles team, you would be invincible because you
00:29:45.796 --> 00:29:49.856
would know exactly what the other party was doing. You would barely even have to communicate.
00:29:49.996 --> 00:29:53.676
You would add value to each other and you'd be unbeatable.
00:29:53.796 --> 00:29:59.116
And that, for me, I think kind of gives me the essence of the man in the mirror moment.
00:29:59.236 --> 00:30:04.456
It was just, I finally beckoned myself onto my side of the net.
00:30:04.636 --> 00:30:12.556
And it started a very different conversation around what if I got curious rather
00:30:12.556 --> 00:30:18.376
than full of guilt and shame, what could make a difference?
00:30:18.456 --> 00:30:22.176
I just, I felt hopeful, probably for the first time in 30 years,
00:30:22.176 --> 00:30:27.316
that actually maybe, just maybe, I could do something about this. Yeah.
00:30:27.996 --> 00:30:34.536
Hope. Isn't hope, it's such a powerful feeling for us to have hope.
00:30:35.616 --> 00:30:40.596
So the question we want to know is, what happens when the train finishes?
00:30:42.776 --> 00:30:47.956
Well, so this was interesting. I called my boss and said, look,
00:30:47.996 --> 00:30:50.436
I'm not well, which was not a lie, let's be clear.
00:30:52.016 --> 00:30:58.296
And I said, I need to take a few days off. And I went back, went back home and said.
00:30:58.989 --> 00:31:03.369
I just thought, you know what? I think the answers are within me.
00:31:03.729 --> 00:31:11.309
And I went back to everything that I'd learned about selling and influencing, about coaching,
00:31:11.629 --> 00:31:18.489
about things like NLP and thought field therapy, tapping, all of these things
00:31:18.489 --> 00:31:24.109
I'd learned kind of incidentally throughout or as part of my career.
00:31:24.309 --> 00:31:30.149
And I just thought, you know what? I'm really good at changing how other people feel about things.
00:31:30.289 --> 00:31:35.549
What if, again, that phrase, what if I was to apply this to me?
00:31:35.669 --> 00:31:39.529
What would I do if somebody came to me looking for help with this?
00:31:39.609 --> 00:31:40.809
What would be the process?
00:31:41.149 --> 00:31:45.969
So I live near a little lake and it's got a little car park in it.
00:31:46.069 --> 00:31:49.429
It's a very beautiful little spot. And I literally piled everything into the car.
00:31:49.649 --> 00:31:55.729
And I spent three days from dawn till dusk with everything spread out over the
00:31:55.729 --> 00:31:57.869
dashboard, over the seats, on the floors and everything.
00:31:58.049 --> 00:31:59.829
And there was something quite interesting
00:31:59.829 --> 00:32:03.069
about being in a car because I thought the answers are in here.
00:32:03.469 --> 00:32:07.089
I just need to find them. And it gave me some real focus. Now,
00:32:07.109 --> 00:32:10.929
literally after three days, I emerged with a plan.
00:32:11.089 --> 00:32:15.829
And some of the things that I decided to push myself through.
00:32:16.409 --> 00:32:21.429
I had tried before, but just as sort of single interventions,
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:26.269
let's say, and they'd helped it a little bit at the time, but they'd not got
00:32:26.269 --> 00:32:27.609
me the outcome I was looking for.
00:32:27.989 --> 00:32:34.069
And, but what I could see, I'd mapped this out, which was basically a sort of a seven stage process.
00:32:34.669 --> 00:32:38.529
And it was like, right, okay, so we start here and then we'll do a bit of this
00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:41.889
and then we'll throw that in and then we'll do this because that's the right
00:32:41.889 --> 00:32:43.209
time for that bit it to happen.
00:32:43.609 --> 00:32:47.369
And then we'll do that. We'll do that. And then that will set us up for a strategy
00:32:47.369 --> 00:32:48.589
for kind of moving forward.
00:32:49.129 --> 00:32:53.569
And so I just made a commitment to myself to start at the beginning,
00:32:54.109 --> 00:32:59.169
work my way through each part of it and not quit until I got to the end.
00:32:59.469 --> 00:33:03.829
And bit by bit, as I went through it, I could feel, and it's,
00:33:03.829 --> 00:33:08.489
I love, you know, that you acknowledge these kind of moments and there were
00:33:08.489 --> 00:33:11.749
just little clicks, just little moments of clarity where I was like,
00:33:11.749 --> 00:33:14.049
Like, ooh, that feels differently.
00:33:14.269 --> 00:33:16.989
And I remember going back in St. Louis at the end of the third day.
00:33:17.049 --> 00:33:18.989
I said, you know, something's happened here.
00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:22.789
I can't quite explain it, but I think I've really...
00:33:23.466 --> 00:33:30.026
Made some progress here. And she kind of side-eyed me and kind of went, yeah, okay.
00:33:32.006 --> 00:33:35.166
You know, actions do indeed speak louder than words.
00:33:35.286 --> 00:33:40.166
And I couldn't, I couldn't make her understand what was going on in my head, which is fine.
00:33:40.326 --> 00:33:45.646
Nobody can see what's going on inside anybody else's head, but I just felt optimistic.
00:33:45.766 --> 00:33:48.526
And I felt really clear about kind of where I was going.
00:33:48.786 --> 00:33:54.206
And days turned into a couple of weeks and I'm like, you know what, I'm doing okay here.
00:33:54.346 --> 00:33:59.386
And bearing in mind, I was all the baggage that I had from growing up in Shetland
00:33:59.386 --> 00:34:03.086
around you're a failure if you cannot drink.
00:34:03.306 --> 00:34:06.166
That meant that I didn't want to give up altogether.
00:34:06.526 --> 00:34:10.266
I just wanted to take a break. I wanted to feel better because I felt miserable.
00:34:10.506 --> 00:34:14.626
I felt sick and I needed to make that go away.
00:34:14.806 --> 00:34:19.946
But actually, now I look back on that with hindsight, I realize that that was
00:34:19.946 --> 00:34:23.906
a good thing because it meant I didn't put myself under too much pressure from the outset.
00:34:24.206 --> 00:34:28.506
I was just, again, coming at this from a position of curiosity.
00:34:29.226 --> 00:34:33.686
And I was like, right, okay, well, if I took a break, how might I feel?
00:34:33.826 --> 00:34:37.266
And so days turned into a few weeks. And I remember one morning,
00:34:37.346 --> 00:34:42.746
probably six or seven weeks in, I woke up, I'd slept really well.
00:34:42.966 --> 00:34:49.246
And I woke up and I just went, my God, I feel amazing.
00:34:50.006 --> 00:34:53.366
And, you know, don't get me wrong. Every morning is not like this for me.
00:34:53.406 --> 00:34:56.926
As I often say, it's not all butterflies and unicorns in Andy world.
00:34:57.406 --> 00:35:05.326
But the interesting thing was, I just thought, I can't remember the last time I felt like this.
00:35:05.366 --> 00:35:07.646
And I I thought, I don't want to let this go.
00:35:07.846 --> 00:35:10.346
It's too profound. It's again, it's a moment.
00:35:10.806 --> 00:35:16.226
And I thought I could choose to go back to being that guy that was sitting in
00:35:16.226 --> 00:35:20.726
the fridge and in Tesco supermarket contemplating all of his life choices,
00:35:20.746 --> 00:35:24.906
or I could feel like this. And it seemed just like a no brainer to me.
00:35:25.306 --> 00:35:30.946
And, and that was when I really sort of committed to, right. I'm,
00:35:31.541 --> 00:35:37.401
done with alcohol. I've had every hangover. I've had every embarrassing experience.
00:35:38.081 --> 00:35:41.601
There was one night I sat when Louise was away with our son,
00:35:41.661 --> 00:35:46.021
I was sat on my own and I drank a bottle of wine and a liter of gin,
00:35:46.181 --> 00:35:48.781
which is a lot by anybody's standards.
00:35:49.261 --> 00:35:54.001
And I couldn't square away the fact that when I woke up in the morning and I was.
00:35:54.561 --> 00:35:57.741
Staggered down to the kitchen and I looked at the empty bottle, my
00:35:57.741 --> 00:36:01.081
overwhelming feeling was actually pride I
00:36:01.081 --> 00:36:04.461
was like look go me you know I've fulfilled my destiny
00:36:04.461 --> 00:36:07.261
of being able to you know drink something that would
00:36:07.261 --> 00:36:13.061
kill somebody and I just thought wow how messed up is that and so I kind of
00:36:13.061 --> 00:36:16.861
went you know what I have nothing left to prove and I think that was the kind
00:36:16.861 --> 00:36:25.361
of final stage for me was actually I've done that I am happy to turn the page on that part of my life,
00:36:25.501 --> 00:36:31.521
I now realize that to not drink alcohol is not a sign of weakness.
00:36:31.641 --> 00:36:35.881
It's actually a sign of strength because we're obsessed with it.
00:36:36.001 --> 00:36:37.561
And things are changing.
00:36:37.721 --> 00:36:42.721
In the seven years I've been doing this, I've seen a massive shift in people's
00:36:42.721 --> 00:36:45.341
attitudes towards booze.
00:36:45.441 --> 00:36:52.641
I mean, in the UK, they reckon now one in three people under 25 don't drink alcohol at all.
00:36:52.641 --> 00:36:55.841
And when I grew up if
00:36:55.841 --> 00:36:58.801
you couldn't remember the night before you would
00:36:58.801 --> 00:37:01.721
just kid yourselves that you'd had this great night and well
00:37:01.721 --> 00:37:05.201
it must have been mustn't it because I don't remember it whereas
00:37:05.201 --> 00:37:09.841
now I do have a theory about this that I think if you go out and get completely
00:37:09.841 --> 00:37:15.541
blasted now there is real jeopardy because when I was growing up nobody had
00:37:15.541 --> 00:37:20.541
a camera there was no feedback loop that suggested anything other than you'd
00:37:20.541 --> 00:37:22.441
had this amazing night that you couldn't remember.
00:37:22.721 --> 00:37:25.861
Whereas now people will take a picture of you if you.
00:37:26.473 --> 00:37:29.573
Lose control you know you're sick on yourself or
00:37:29.573 --> 00:37:32.613
you pass out in the corner of the nightclub or
00:37:32.613 --> 00:37:37.813
something like that and all of a sudden you look at the reality of the situation
00:37:37.813 --> 00:37:44.213
and you go actually i'm not sure i am having that great a time there or maybe
00:37:44.213 --> 00:37:48.073
i'm hanging off somebody else and i'm just look you know my eyes are bloodshot
00:37:48.073 --> 00:37:51.053
and i don't look like i'm particularly enjoying joy in myself.
00:37:51.193 --> 00:37:56.313
So I think there is the jeopardy of humiliation of people sharing stuff on social
00:37:56.313 --> 00:38:00.313
media, but also there is that feedback loop where you can just kind of go,
00:38:00.513 --> 00:38:05.513
okay, that does not look like the amount of fun that maybe I was telling myself
00:38:05.513 --> 00:38:08.493
that it was. Yeah, absolutely.
00:38:09.133 --> 00:38:11.333
Going from from drinking that
00:38:11.333 --> 00:38:20.213
much alcohol to stopping, I have to imagine it had to be so difficult.
00:38:20.913 --> 00:38:26.413
Would you mind sharing with me a little bit of an overview of the next,
00:38:26.413 --> 00:38:32.313
you know, few weeks, months of not drinking and any maybe low moments or high
00:38:32.313 --> 00:38:34.433
moments that really stand out?
00:38:34.433 --> 00:38:41.153
I think, I mean, obviously there's a physical element of it where, I mean, I was blessed.
00:38:41.253 --> 00:38:45.453
I'm not, I didn't get, you know, huge kind of shakes and things like that.
00:38:45.693 --> 00:38:50.573
My sleep was terrible for the first couple of weeks. I felt anxious. I felt irritable.
00:38:51.093 --> 00:38:54.733
And so that side of it was tough. but actually i
00:38:54.733 --> 00:38:57.673
think the the biggest part of it was i've been
00:38:57.673 --> 00:39:00.533
drinking regularly since i was 13 years
00:39:00.533 --> 00:39:03.833
old and and here i am at the age of 50 going
00:39:03.833 --> 00:39:06.793
who is andy smith without a
00:39:06.793 --> 00:39:12.793
glass in his hand and you get a lot of kind of soul searching that goes on it's
00:39:12.793 --> 00:39:17.073
like right okay now i need to i need to learn how to relax without this stuff
00:39:17.073 --> 00:39:21.693
i need to learn how to socialize without this stuff I need to learn how to be
00:39:21.693 --> 00:39:24.153
fun Andy without this stuff.
00:39:24.313 --> 00:39:27.473
And it's almost like you're starting again.
00:39:27.773 --> 00:39:34.913
But when you learn this stuff and you kind of lean into these uncomfortable
00:39:34.913 --> 00:39:39.693
situations where you go out with your friends and you think,
00:39:39.733 --> 00:39:41.773
right, I'm not going to drink and I'm going to get questions.
00:39:41.993 --> 00:39:45.853
I'm going to have to justify what I'm doing and things like that.
00:39:45.913 --> 00:39:51.173
You start to see that, you know, everybody has very different views and takes on this.
00:39:51.213 --> 00:39:55.393
Some people are, they'll put an arm around you and go, that's brilliant.
00:39:55.493 --> 00:39:57.273
That's great. I've been worried about you for a while.
00:39:57.753 --> 00:40:01.453
Some people are like, Oh God, are you just going to be, you know,
00:40:01.453 --> 00:40:04.593
picking us up on all the crap that we say or something like that.
00:40:04.753 --> 00:40:09.173
And so you, you contend with a lot of different sort of reactions.
00:40:09.553 --> 00:40:16.373
But as you start to take these things off, and you go through experiences.
00:40:17.418 --> 00:40:20.518
Without this, and you realize that, oh, funnily enough, the world didn't end
00:40:20.518 --> 00:40:22.498
just because I wasn't drinking.
00:40:22.698 --> 00:40:26.258
I mean, I'll tell you an interesting, very quick story. But there's a guy that
00:40:26.258 --> 00:40:28.998
I was working with last summer, and he's a big cricket fan.
00:40:29.298 --> 00:40:34.118
We were working on his kind of ability to go to a cricket ground.
00:40:34.198 --> 00:40:37.358
He was semi-retired, and he said, look, he said, I spend most of my summer days
00:40:37.358 --> 00:40:40.398
sitting in a cricket ground drinking lager.
00:40:40.798 --> 00:40:43.958
And I need to find a new way to enjoy that experience.
00:40:44.118 --> 00:40:47.078
He's a mad keen cricket fan. and so we
00:40:47.078 --> 00:40:50.298
did quite a lot of work and he was doing really well and
00:40:50.298 --> 00:40:53.298
then we had a call and he said oh he says i've got
00:40:53.298 --> 00:40:55.978
an old university friend i see him a couple of
00:40:55.978 --> 00:40:58.938
times a year and he is not going
00:40:58.938 --> 00:41:02.118
to be happy that i'm not drinking i was
00:41:02.118 --> 00:41:05.398
like okay good okay we've got a we've got a challenge here and
00:41:05.398 --> 00:41:08.238
so he was going to cricket ground up in birmingham called edge
00:41:08.238 --> 00:41:10.958
baston on the saturday for a test
00:41:10.958 --> 00:41:13.958
match and his mate was going to be there let's
00:41:13.958 --> 00:41:16.998
call him dave Dave and he said I'm just really
00:41:16.998 --> 00:41:19.798
worried so we booked in a call we had
00:41:19.798 --> 00:41:22.498
a call on the Friday and then we we also penciled in
00:41:22.498 --> 00:41:25.178
one for the Monday to review how it had gone so
00:41:25.178 --> 00:41:28.078
on the Friday we literally were role playing out what
00:41:28.078 --> 00:41:31.938
he was going to say to Dave about all these kind of reasons for wanting to do
00:41:31.938 --> 00:41:38.338
it and and all this and he was really nervous about this and I was thinking
00:41:38.338 --> 00:41:43.238
about all weekend and I thought you know what I bet he's crumbled I bet this
00:41:43.238 --> 00:41:46.358
is going to be a step too far for him. He was really nervous about it.
00:41:46.458 --> 00:41:51.438
So nine o'clock Monday morning, I call him up, ring, ring, ring, ring.
00:41:51.878 --> 00:41:57.838
Hi. I said, so how did it go? And he just burst out laughing. And I was like, okay.
00:41:58.398 --> 00:42:03.818
Um, out of all the possible reactions that I was anticipating,
00:42:04.038 --> 00:42:05.758
I did not see that coming.
00:42:05.958 --> 00:42:10.698
I said, tell me more. And he said, well, I met Dave in the bar at 10 o'clock in the morning.
00:42:10.698 --> 00:42:13.498
And i started with the speech that we'd
00:42:13.498 --> 00:42:16.558
worked on and he said i got about two or
00:42:16.558 --> 00:42:20.038
three sentences in and then dave just held his hand up and said
00:42:20.038 --> 00:42:27.018
i'll stop you there and then he said thank f for that and this really threw
00:42:27.018 --> 00:42:32.118
him and he's like okay and dave said he said i've been meaning to say something
00:42:32.118 --> 00:42:37.158
to you for a while he said it's great to see you and i really enjoy coming but you know
00:42:37.178 --> 00:42:41.258
and they would sit and get completely and utterly blasted together normally
00:42:41.258 --> 00:42:43.958
and he said the thing is it's great to see you but he
00:42:43.958 --> 00:42:46.898
said i i go home in a right state he said my wife doesn't talk
00:42:46.898 --> 00:42:49.778
to me for six weeks afterwards um because i
00:42:49.778 --> 00:42:54.738
get myself in such a mess so they sat and they watched the cricket and this
00:42:54.738 --> 00:43:00.718
client of mine drank soda water and lime all day and dave had about three pints
00:43:00.718 --> 00:43:05.318
of lager over the course of the entire day my client gave him a lift home and
00:43:05.318 --> 00:43:07.898
and all was good. And we were just talking about that.
00:43:07.998 --> 00:43:12.238
And he said, he said, here's the thing, Andy, he said, it's the best day ever.
00:43:12.899 --> 00:43:20.519
We've had at the cricket for years. And so it takes real courage to follow your
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:25.359
heart on this kind of stuff to kind of go, right, I'm going to grit my teeth.
00:43:25.419 --> 00:43:28.999
I'm going to get my big boy pants on and I'm going to square into this.
00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:34.079
So that conversation at 10 AM in the bar, he could have very easily choked and
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.999
just gone, Oh, let's just have beers.
00:43:36.739 --> 00:43:41.339
And Dave would have gone home to his wife and, you know, been sleeping in the
00:43:41.339 --> 00:43:43.059
spare room and all that kind of stuff.
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:48.339
And yet the, just the ability to have a different conversation.
00:43:48.359 --> 00:43:52.939
And I think there's so much in this in terms of we build all this stuff up in
00:43:52.939 --> 00:43:55.059
our own mind to be one way.
00:43:55.139 --> 00:44:01.079
And we're rarely right in terms of what the actual reality of the situation is.
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:05.579
And when I'm working with people, it's just really really interesting when I,
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:07.039
you're starting to unpick.
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.359
I mean, a lot of this is about fear and it's like, well, what's this person
00:44:10.359 --> 00:44:12.319
going to see and how am I going to cope with a family wedding?
00:44:12.399 --> 00:44:15.419
Oh, we've got a family barbecue coming up and what am I going to do?
00:44:15.539 --> 00:44:19.819
And it's like, right, all we need to do is find the bravery to just see this through.
00:44:19.959 --> 00:44:26.379
And then we've got some learning and invariably it's not what people think it's going to be.
00:44:26.419 --> 00:44:29.279
And yeah, you know, there might be some people who are difficult and things
00:44:29.279 --> 00:44:33.499
like that, but generally it's not the fantasy that you've got in your mind.
00:44:33.579 --> 00:44:37.999
I often jokingly say to people, you know, when they're talking about a family
00:44:37.999 --> 00:44:40.859
wedding and things like that, I said, what do you actually think is going to happen?
00:44:41.019 --> 00:44:45.159
Do you think your family are going to pounce on you and pin you down and get
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:47.459
a funnel and start pouring vodka down your throat?
00:44:47.619 --> 00:44:52.419
No, you might get a couple of stupid comments, but then nobody really gives a damn.
00:44:52.941 --> 00:44:57.601
And they will get on with their night. You'll get on with yours and it's fine.
00:44:57.921 --> 00:45:02.761
But we build this stuff up. And it's so much of this is an exercise against
00:45:02.761 --> 00:45:07.581
your own fear because in your comfort zones, they are bounded by fear.
00:45:07.681 --> 00:45:11.721
And the closer you get to the edge of the comfort zone, the scarier it is.
00:45:11.901 --> 00:45:17.101
And it doesn't matter if it's a job that, you know, a big job promotion,
00:45:17.221 --> 00:45:19.521
which is loads more money that you're more than capable of.
00:45:19.521 --> 00:45:22.521
You go in in through that process with
00:45:22.521 --> 00:45:25.981
am i am i good enough can i handle this
00:45:25.981 --> 00:45:30.901
am i worth it you know there's a great exercise that they did a number of years
00:45:30.901 --> 00:45:35.181
ago where they put a fake job ad in i think the new york times or something
00:45:35.181 --> 00:45:40.081
like that invited a load of people in for interview all of which were perfectly
00:45:40.081 --> 00:45:45.581
qualified for the job that was being advertised got them all in a room together.
00:45:45.681 --> 00:45:48.821
And then somebody came out and said, Oh, just to let you know,
00:45:48.881 --> 00:45:51.721
before you go in for your interview, we're terribly sorry.
00:45:51.861 --> 00:45:55.301
We've made a mistake with the job ad.
00:45:55.541 --> 00:45:59.201
Uh, we got the salary wrong. And of course, everybody looked at each other and
00:45:59.201 --> 00:46:00.901
rolled their eyes. Oh, here we go.
00:46:01.181 --> 00:46:03.801
We've been brought here under false pretenses.
00:46:04.281 --> 00:46:06.421
They're going to tell us it's kind of half the money.
00:46:06.981 --> 00:46:10.841
And they said, no, we, we actually missed the zero off the end of it.
00:46:10.841 --> 00:46:18.361
So the $25,000 job was actually 250,000 and half the people walked out because
00:46:18.361 --> 00:46:22.161
they went, well, that's just not me, even though they were all qualified enough to do the job.
00:46:22.421 --> 00:46:28.381
So, so much of this in life is around how do I get out of my own way?
00:46:28.861 --> 00:46:35.621
And that was very much, you know, my man in the mirror moment and just coming up against my own fear.
00:46:36.181 --> 00:46:37.961
And when you do that once...
00:46:38.762 --> 00:46:42.942
You start to ask yourself very different questions in life. Yeah.
00:46:43.222 --> 00:46:48.342
You know, the one word that you said that I keep coming back to is courage.
00:46:48.902 --> 00:46:55.262
Yeah. And I look at this and I think it speaks so highly of this idea of courage
00:46:55.262 --> 00:46:57.462
within ourselves to make a change.
00:46:58.362 --> 00:47:04.662
Courage of the guy to be the one to do something different, friend,
00:47:04.662 --> 00:47:10.342
to not do the norm, to, to, you know, be that, that purple,
00:47:10.542 --> 00:47:13.422
you know, striped zebra in amongst
00:47:13.422 --> 00:47:17.582
all of the black and white ones to go against it. It takes courage.
00:47:17.862 --> 00:47:23.602
And yet what I love about it is sometimes if we can have that courage,
00:47:23.842 --> 00:47:28.982
look at the change that it made, not just in his life, but in his friend's life.
00:47:29.302 --> 00:47:33.562
Yeah. You know? And I mean, and that's where I just, I come back to courage.
00:47:33.842 --> 00:47:39.622
If we can adopt the courage to do the things that we know we want to do,
00:47:39.702 --> 00:47:43.782
that we need to do, the impact is just monumental.
00:47:44.162 --> 00:47:50.722
Oh, absolutely. And when you learn sort of what works once, you do start to
00:47:50.722 --> 00:47:51.742
ask yourself different questions.
00:47:51.842 --> 00:47:55.982
After I got sober, I started to ask myself questions.
00:47:56.242 --> 00:48:00.922
Well, I've just done something that I thought was genuinely impossible for me.
00:48:01.002 --> 00:48:07.622
What else have I talked myself out of that I would have always liked to have
00:48:07.622 --> 00:48:11.962
done in my life, but just listen to that internal voice that says,
00:48:12.022 --> 00:48:14.542
nah, you're not good enough. You're not strong enough.
00:48:14.682 --> 00:48:18.102
You're not fast enough. You're too fat, too thin, too young, too old.
00:48:18.402 --> 00:48:24.502
And I started to look around for other ways to sort of test this hypothesis
00:48:24.502 --> 00:48:29.742
is could I possibly be maybe a little bit better than.
00:48:30.652 --> 00:48:35.672
I thought I was. And for me, it was when I rode the Tour de France on my bike.
00:48:35.812 --> 00:48:42.092
And that was a very interesting part of this journey, because actually the metaphor
00:48:42.092 --> 00:48:48.452
between doing another thing that was, quote unquote, impossible for me.
00:48:48.712 --> 00:48:52.292
Make no mistake, I am not a cyclist. You look at my picture,
00:48:52.372 --> 00:48:55.172
I am not built like these guys that do this kind of stuff.
00:48:55.372 --> 00:49:02.332
But I had read a book back in, I think around about 2008, 2009,
00:49:02.812 --> 00:49:04.392
called French Revolutions.
00:49:04.532 --> 00:49:08.812
And it was a journalist who went and rode the course of the Tour de France.
00:49:08.952 --> 00:49:13.852
And he started off being fairly cynical about these guys and the brightly colored
00:49:13.852 --> 00:49:15.532
lycra and all this kind of stuff.
00:49:15.832 --> 00:49:22.172
And it's a very funny book in terms of his experiences, but also the sort of
00:49:22.172 --> 00:49:28.132
admiration that he started to feel towards these guys in terms of the sheer
00:49:28.132 --> 00:49:30.652
enormity of what they were taking on.
00:49:30.692 --> 00:49:34.332
I'd read this and I thought, oh, wouldn't it be so cool to do that one day?
00:49:34.432 --> 00:49:39.272
And of course, now armed with a what's next kind of mentality,
00:49:39.632 --> 00:49:43.212
I just started Googling some things about ride the course of the Tour de France.
00:49:43.272 --> 00:49:46.992
And I found a charity that did that very thing.
00:49:47.092 --> 00:49:52.312
And I phoned them up and I said, look, I said, is this what you do? Am I reading that right?
00:49:52.532 --> 00:49:57.252
You can go and ride the entire course of the Tour de France for this kids' charity that they have.
00:49:58.852 --> 00:50:01.472
And they're like, yeah, that's exactly what we do. And I was like,
00:50:01.512 --> 00:50:03.252
wow, okay, I'd like some more information.
00:50:03.412 --> 00:50:07.732
They said, well, I'll kind of stop you there because actually it's completely
00:50:07.732 --> 00:50:10.812
sold out. And this was, I don't know, late 2017.
00:50:11.432 --> 00:50:14.972
This is when we were talking about the 2018 cycling season.
00:50:15.572 --> 00:50:20.052
And the lovely Sarah at the charity said, but if you want, we can put you on
00:50:20.052 --> 00:50:22.232
the waiting list. And I was like, yeah, sure.
00:50:22.552 --> 00:50:25.912
You know, here's my email address. Here's my, here's my telephone number.
00:50:26.012 --> 00:50:29.692
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not really thinking that anything was ever going to come of it.
00:50:29.732 --> 00:50:34.332
And then about six weeks later, the phone rang and bearing in mind,
00:50:34.352 --> 00:50:39.012
I was starting to look after myself a bit more and I was down the gym and things like that.
00:50:39.132 --> 00:50:42.832
And I'd lost a bit of weight and funnily enough, all of my health issues,
00:50:43.092 --> 00:50:46.092
both mental and physical were all starting to resolve solve themselves.
00:50:46.732 --> 00:50:50.432
And so the phone rang and it was Sarah and she said, right, okay,
00:50:50.512 --> 00:50:54.432
Andy, well, this is the phone call you're either excited about or dreading,
00:50:54.432 --> 00:50:57.352
but somebody's pulled out. You're next on the list.
00:50:57.792 --> 00:51:02.472
There's a place on the 2018 tour for you, but we need an answer in two hours.
00:51:02.792 --> 00:51:05.532
And I was like, oh, okay, fine.
00:51:06.012 --> 00:51:09.412
Thank you. Went away and had a chat with Louise about it.
00:51:09.572 --> 00:51:13.752
And she said, she said, look, if you take this, would you put the training in?
00:51:13.792 --> 00:51:16.732
I was like, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I need to because...
00:51:17.563 --> 00:51:21.663
I am, you know, not a cyclist by any stretch. I didn't even own a bike,
00:51:21.683 --> 00:51:22.803
bearing in mind at this stage.
00:51:23.283 --> 00:51:27.043
And then she asked me a very interesting question.
00:51:27.183 --> 00:51:30.303
She said, okay, because I was now in a situation where I was going to have to
00:51:30.303 --> 00:51:33.023
say no, if I was not going to do it.
00:51:33.063 --> 00:51:37.163
It wasn't just let the universe kind of gradually talk me out of it.
00:51:37.843 --> 00:51:41.203
And she asked me a really interesting question. She said, if you say no,
00:51:41.383 --> 00:51:42.603
how are you going to feel?
00:51:42.843 --> 00:51:46.483
And I said, well, I think I will regret it for the rest of my life.
00:51:47.123 --> 00:51:49.883
And she said, well, there's your answer. And I'm like, yeah,
00:51:49.943 --> 00:51:53.663
but you know, it's three weeks and I had a young son and it's kind of,
00:51:53.723 --> 00:51:55.943
you're gonna, and she said, we'll sort all that stuff out.
00:51:56.003 --> 00:51:59.083
Just if you've got to give them an answer, just tell them yes.
00:51:59.263 --> 00:52:00.163
And we'll work it all out.
00:52:00.463 --> 00:52:04.643
And boy, what an adventure that was. You know, I've read all the books.
00:52:05.023 --> 00:52:09.183
I've learned all the theory about performance and things like that,
00:52:09.243 --> 00:52:13.883
but I'll tell you on the roads of France for three weeks in the summer of 2018,
00:52:13.883 --> 00:52:19.063
18, I just spent the whole time going, oh, now I understand.
00:52:21.563 --> 00:52:26.623
Oh, my goodness, man. What an amazing story.
00:52:26.843 --> 00:52:33.583
Now, you got to talk to me. How long did you end up having to prepare before it started?
00:52:33.943 --> 00:52:40.663
So I had about, I think, just a little over six months. OK, so which is enough.
00:52:41.343 --> 00:52:44.123
I'm going to train through the winter and things like that. And,
00:52:44.123 --> 00:52:46.523
but building, building miles.
00:52:46.603 --> 00:52:51.863
I remember the first time I went and rode 60 miles and I was destroyed at the end of it.
00:52:51.903 --> 00:52:55.403
And I was on the one hand, I was like, this is great.
00:52:55.803 --> 00:52:58.783
I've just done 60 miles. That's the furthest I've ever ridden.
00:52:59.083 --> 00:53:02.903
Then on the other hand, I'm going, yeah, but you know, I've got to do three
00:53:02.903 --> 00:53:04.823
times this in terms of effort.
00:53:04.943 --> 00:53:10.943
If you include the climbing, you know, every day for three weeks and it was like, oh, okay.
00:53:10.943 --> 00:53:14.203
So sometimes you see a little bit of the enormity of
00:53:14.203 --> 00:53:17.163
the challenge ahead and by this point they'd announced the
00:53:17.163 --> 00:53:21.783
the route and i was looking at stage 12 which is what they call the queen stage
00:53:21.783 --> 00:53:28.243
which is like the biggest individual day and it's about 120 miles and about
00:53:28.243 --> 00:53:33.523
three quarters of the height of everest in terms of vertical in one day and
00:53:33.523 --> 00:53:35.043
i was looking at that and i was just
00:53:35.478 --> 00:53:42.438
I don't know how I can even contemplate doing that, but bit by bit,
00:53:42.538 --> 00:53:43.938
I got fitter and I got stronger.
00:53:44.038 --> 00:53:47.698
And there's a, there's a hill that I used to train on near where I live.
00:53:47.818 --> 00:53:53.038
And the first time I went out on a training ride, I did it, I think in 11 minutes and 23 seconds.
00:53:53.938 --> 00:53:57.738
And, and I was like, okay, that's my benchmark. And so I just kept chipping
00:53:57.738 --> 00:53:59.178
away, chipping away, chipping away.
00:53:59.778 --> 00:54:03.878
And every once in a while I would do a ride that would go and I would do that.
00:54:03.958 --> 00:54:08.038
And the time was coming down, going down in nine minutes and then eight minutes.
00:54:08.178 --> 00:54:09.778
And I was like, wow, this is pretty good actually.
00:54:10.378 --> 00:54:16.498
And, um, by the time, probably two weeks before the tour, I went out to do my
00:54:16.498 --> 00:54:21.278
last kind of big training ride and I went and did it and I did it in five minutes and 50 seconds.
00:54:22.978 --> 00:54:28.678
Wow. Isn't it extraordinary? Cause my body had put up with all the punishment
00:54:28.678 --> 00:54:30.498
and abuse that I'd given it for years.
00:54:31.158 --> 00:54:34.478
And I was grateful that it endured that.
00:54:34.958 --> 00:54:38.598
But actually now what I was doing, I was challenging it in a very different way.
00:54:38.718 --> 00:54:43.958
And I was like, wow, this is like, I'm now going nearly twice as fast up this mountain.
00:54:44.138 --> 00:54:49.418
Funnily enough, I went away and obviously did the tour. I lost 17 pounds in three weeks.
00:54:49.818 --> 00:54:56.038
And just burning, you know, I turned myself into a candle and just burned all the fat out.
00:54:56.418 --> 00:55:00.418
But I came back and even though I was full of cold after I got back,
00:55:00.418 --> 00:55:03.778
I thought, I'm going to try Remenham Hill again. And I did it in 507.
00:55:04.018 --> 00:55:10.678
And I just thought, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm a different person physically now than I was back then.
00:55:10.778 --> 00:55:15.598
And yes, it's been a journey, but I think a lot of the stuff about the,
00:55:15.718 --> 00:55:23.238
the tour taught me about when you, and I think the parallels for a sobriety journey are.
00:55:23.892 --> 00:55:29.492
Are really valid in terms of whenever you think about the enormity of what you're
00:55:29.492 --> 00:55:33.992
trying to achieve, given that you've not done this before, you tend to get freaked
00:55:33.992 --> 00:55:37.312
out and you tend to sort of give up almost before you start.
00:55:37.492 --> 00:55:45.672
So you need to have a way to stay focused, to break things down into smaller chunks.
00:55:45.812 --> 00:55:49.272
Now people talk about, you know, smart goals and things like that.
00:55:49.352 --> 00:55:53.072
I've I've never really kind of bought that. I think your goals should be unachievable,
00:55:53.112 --> 00:55:58.772
but you need to have something to focus on in the moment because I spent most
00:55:58.772 --> 00:56:04.152
of those three weeks thinking about the Champs-Élysées at the end of stage 21
00:56:04.152 --> 00:56:07.132
and just overwhelming myself every time.
00:56:07.292 --> 00:56:13.252
But every morning there was a guy that got up at four o'clock and signposted
00:56:13.252 --> 00:56:16.292
the route for the day and he put yellow arrows on the lampposts.
00:56:16.292 --> 00:56:19.712
And and it just meant that when you
00:56:19.712 --> 00:56:22.392
came up to a roundabout or an intersection if the
00:56:22.392 --> 00:56:25.212
arrow said go straight on you went straight on if it said left
00:56:25.212 --> 00:56:28.812
you went left it went said right you went right you didn't question it because
00:56:28.812 --> 00:56:33.732
there was enough trust in his ability to signpost the route and it just meant
00:56:33.732 --> 00:56:40.052
that you didn't have to worry you just went okay what do i do today i'm just
00:56:40.052 --> 00:56:45.032
going to follow the yellow arrows and i'm going to keep turning the pedals and sometimes those
00:56:45.172 --> 00:56:48.612
revolutions of the pedals going up a mountain were really, really hard.
00:56:48.752 --> 00:56:54.352
And sometimes you're zipping along through a valley with all your mates around
00:56:54.352 --> 00:56:56.052
you, and it's just joyous.
00:56:56.192 --> 00:57:02.412
I think I worked out that I made nearly 1 million revolutions of the pedals,
00:57:02.652 --> 00:57:05.312
and every single one of them was necessary.
00:57:05.592 --> 00:57:11.092
Some of them I loved, some of them I deeply hated, but they all got me to the
00:57:11.092 --> 00:57:13.052
Champs-Élysées in Paris.
00:57:13.232 --> 00:57:19.332
And I think that understanding of there are good days, there are bad days.
00:57:19.592 --> 00:57:25.692
Somebody advised me before we went to France that said, there will be days that
00:57:25.692 --> 00:57:30.712
you will wake up and you'll just go, I can't do this. And.
00:57:31.391 --> 00:57:35.011
He said, he said, you'll just want to cry all day. And that's true.
00:57:35.071 --> 00:57:36.551
It definitely got to that point.
00:57:36.791 --> 00:57:42.031
And in those moments, it was like, right, just get on your bike and just follow the yellow arrows.
00:57:42.151 --> 00:57:45.651
And if you follow the yellow arrows, you'll get fed when you need to be fed
00:57:45.651 --> 00:57:50.511
and you will have a bed for the night at the end of it, no matter how long it takes you.
00:57:50.571 --> 00:57:57.851
So just get small and just, you know, really focusing on what the task is at hand.
00:57:58.011 --> 00:58:02.591
And I remember at the top of stage 19, the final mountain stage,
00:58:02.851 --> 00:58:04.311
got to the top of the final climb.
00:58:04.391 --> 00:58:08.591
And I went live on Facebook and, um, there was quite a few people were following
00:58:08.591 --> 00:58:10.871
my journey and my video blogs and things like that.
00:58:11.211 --> 00:58:15.331
And I was like, Oh, here I am, you know, the top of the top of the mountain,
00:58:15.411 --> 00:58:16.691
we've got two stages to go.
00:58:16.971 --> 00:58:21.551
There was a short stage, stage 20, uh, which was the time trial.
00:58:21.791 --> 00:58:25.931
And then there was the ceremonial run into Paris stage 21.
00:58:26.331 --> 00:58:29.111
And so here I was at the top of the the final mountain. And,
00:58:29.171 --> 00:58:33.651
and I was like, yeah, it's like, it's like being in a football game where,
00:58:33.731 --> 00:58:41.311
you know, it's, you're, you're two one ahead and you're soccer, obviously, um.
00:58:42.171 --> 00:58:44.991
Two one ahead, but maybe there's three minutes of extra time.
00:58:45.251 --> 00:58:49.231
And so, you know, you're in a really strong position, but you know, it's not quite done yet.
00:58:49.531 --> 00:58:52.611
And for the first time I allowed myself the
00:58:52.611 --> 00:58:55.671
luxury of maybe just thinking that my god i
00:58:55.671 --> 00:58:58.411
have just ridden the course of the tour
00:58:58.411 --> 00:59:02.011
de france and i burst into tears and and
00:59:02.011 --> 00:59:07.171
it was embarrassing because i was live on facebook and i'm like and it
00:59:07.171 --> 00:59:10.511
was just such a powerful moment and i've watched that video again subsequent
00:59:10.511 --> 00:59:14.951
it was funny there was about 20 people uh watched it live and then i went back
00:59:14.951 --> 00:59:18.191
in the following day and i think it had something like one and a half thousand
00:59:18.191 --> 00:59:22.111
views or something i was like oh god on Andy Pride on Skidbrook.
00:59:22.191 --> 00:59:27.931
But it was just the release of this kind of pent up emotion where I just thought,
00:59:28.051 --> 00:59:31.111
God, maybe I've finally done this.
00:59:31.311 --> 00:59:33.351
And there were so many moments where...
00:59:33.939 --> 00:59:38.439
Along the way where I came so close to just not completing.
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:42.759
And all that stuff just adds up to make it this massive thing.
00:59:42.819 --> 00:59:46.319
And the following week, when Geraint Thomas, who won it that year.
00:59:47.059 --> 00:59:50.419
Somebody stuffed a microphone in his face at the end of stage 20,
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:55.519
because the final stage, it's sort of customary not to attack the yellow jersey.
00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:00.019
So if you've won it at the end of stage 20, barring accidents, you've got it.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.079
And somebody stuck a microphone in his face and said,
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:06.099
Oh, how does it feel to have won the Tour de France and he burst into
01:00:06.099 --> 01:00:11.419
tears and I was like I know exactly how he feels um but
01:00:11.419 --> 01:00:14.379
obviously he did it uh even though we did it on the same schedule
01:00:14.379 --> 01:00:17.499
I mean that queen stage of Alpe
01:00:17.499 --> 01:00:22.239
d'Huez he finished it at you know three in the afternoon I finished it at 11
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:30.679
o'clock at night yes oh my goodness wow man your story is so incredible and
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:36.859
in in And this story about the Tour de France is just absolutely unbelievable.
01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:45.279
But that was honestly just the light of the match for where you would go after that.
01:00:45.419 --> 01:00:50.879
And so before we get into where you would begin cycling after,
01:00:51.139 --> 01:00:58.059
what do you feel like you learned about yourself in those three weeks that kept
01:00:58.059 --> 01:01:01.099
you propelling forward of chasing after?
01:01:01.219 --> 01:01:03.999
This this idea this dream this goal
01:01:03.999 --> 01:01:07.419
yeah oh great question boy oh
01:01:07.419 --> 01:01:11.099
how long you got well let me just i guess there's probably
01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:14.659
a couple of things i think one is the
01:01:14.659 --> 01:01:22.459
value of persistence i think it's when you cycle up a big old mountain it's
01:01:22.459 --> 01:01:26.339
something that the mountain has been there for millions of years and it's going
01:01:26.339 --> 01:01:32.259
to be there for millions of years after you've gone and how you choose to experience it is all on you.
01:01:32.399 --> 01:01:35.559
The mountain just looks at you and just goes, all right, sunshine,
01:01:35.839 --> 01:01:36.959
let's see what you've got today.
01:01:37.539 --> 01:01:42.299
And so you go to lots of different places in your head.
01:01:42.419 --> 01:01:49.179
And I remember riding up the Calder Madeline on this infamous stage 12 and just
01:01:49.179 --> 01:01:52.859
the sort of, yeah, I can do it. I can do it. I'm feeling great.
01:01:52.959 --> 01:01:55.499
And then, oh no, I can't do it. I can't do it. Then yeah, I can.
01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:58.099
I'm feeling better again. Then, oh no, I can't do it. And,
01:01:58.668 --> 01:02:01.448
bear in mind it takes you two and a half hours to get up
01:02:01.448 --> 01:02:04.488
this mountain and by that point you're just kind of exhausted
01:02:04.488 --> 01:02:07.668
and it just you end up and just go like look just shut
01:02:07.668 --> 01:02:10.528
up and get on with it and i remember
01:02:10.528 --> 01:02:16.848
looking at a little kilometer marker about halfway up and and i was looking
01:02:16.848 --> 01:02:21.068
at i could see it up ahead and they they very helpfully put on these big climbs
01:02:21.068 --> 01:02:26.108
they count down how many kilometers to the top and i was looking at this kilometer
01:02:26.108 --> 01:02:29.428
marker and i'm thinking i think it's 14 kilometers to go.
01:02:29.988 --> 01:02:35.468
And then I'm thinking, nah, but I can't remember riding past the 15 kilometer one. So maybe it's 15.
01:02:35.848 --> 01:02:39.828
And then I'm thinking, well, if I think it's 14, and then I get there and it's
01:02:39.828 --> 01:02:43.888
15, I'm going to be crushed because I've got a kilometer more than I thought.
01:02:44.048 --> 01:02:47.588
So I'm going to, I'm going to assume it's 15, because then if it is 14,
01:02:47.788 --> 01:02:52.468
then I've got a free kilometer, you know, and all this insanity is going on in your head.
01:02:52.508 --> 01:02:57.028
And I'm sort of peddling away and this thing's, I'm like squinting and can I see it? Can I see it?
01:02:57.068 --> 01:02:59.888
And I got there and it was 14 kilometers to go.
01:02:59.928 --> 01:03:03.628
And I'm like, yeah, I've just got an extra kilometer that I didn't,
01:03:03.628 --> 01:03:06.348
you know, and it's such a mental game.
01:03:06.568 --> 01:03:10.928
And you get to the top of this mountain and you look back down and you think,
01:03:11.028 --> 01:03:15.988
wow, two hours ago, I was right the way back down there looking up and thinking,
01:03:16.008 --> 01:03:17.348
I'm never going to do this.
01:03:17.368 --> 01:03:20.308
And yet here I am looking back on where I was.
01:03:20.448 --> 01:03:24.228
And there was a really cool moment bearing in
01:03:24.228 --> 01:03:28.108
mind this was the this was the day that got me
01:03:28.108 --> 01:03:30.848
out on my bike in the pouring rain it's like
01:03:30.848 --> 01:03:34.468
right okay you're gonna have to get out and do 100 miles because that's
01:03:34.468 --> 01:03:38.068
what you've committed to do and it's a horrible day and
01:03:38.068 --> 01:03:41.268
but you're just gonna have to get on with it because that day scared me
01:03:41.268 --> 01:03:44.228
enough to kind of give it the respect that
01:03:44.228 --> 01:03:47.548
it deserved and so went over
01:03:47.548 --> 01:03:50.348
the col de madeleine went over the col de la croix de fer the
01:03:50.348 --> 01:03:53.808
good old iron cross the biggest climb in the whole tour and
01:03:53.808 --> 01:03:57.108
i was coming down we're heading to the most
01:03:57.108 --> 01:04:02.268
iconic climb of the tour de france alpe d'huez 21 hairpins and it's about the
01:04:02.268 --> 01:04:09.748
height of ben nevis in the uk about uh yeah about 1400 meters straight up and
01:04:09.748 --> 01:04:15.528
and i i got to the bottom i was i was riding up to the bottom of the climb and
01:04:15.528 --> 01:04:16.988
it was getting dark. It was about.
01:04:17.618 --> 01:04:20.558
10 to nine at night when I got to the bottom of the climb. And I'm like,
01:04:20.678 --> 01:04:23.038
you know what? I'm feeling okay here.
01:04:23.278 --> 01:04:28.598
And, and you're kind of looking at yourself and going, I never thought in a
01:04:28.598 --> 01:04:30.498
million years, I'd even be able to get this far.
01:04:30.678 --> 01:04:34.798
And yet here I am about to start the final climb. And actually I'm feeling way
01:04:34.798 --> 01:04:41.758
better than I thought I would until I got to the final food stop.
01:04:41.918 --> 01:04:45.978
So Yogi, the mechanic is there and he's got a mini bus and a big,
01:04:45.978 --> 01:04:48.338
big van with all this stuff.
01:04:48.418 --> 01:04:54.318
So I pulled in and topping my water bottles up, grabbing a banana and sitting
01:04:54.318 --> 01:04:59.958
on the back of the van where all the guys who'd given up for the day and they're
01:04:59.958 --> 01:05:02.678
all looking at me as if to say, what's he going to do?
01:05:03.458 --> 01:05:10.738
And I not considered quitting at all at any point during that day until I saw them.
01:05:10.978 --> 01:05:14.518
And all of a sudden, something really interesting happened. All the excuses,
01:05:14.678 --> 01:05:16.778
my knees were sore, my wrists were sore.
01:05:17.198 --> 01:05:20.778
And I was like, Oh God, you know, it's going to be two hours to get to the top.
01:05:20.838 --> 01:05:22.038
It's nine o'clock at night.
01:05:22.538 --> 01:05:27.918
This is a, this is a climb that most people would just come and do that one climb in the day.
01:05:28.138 --> 01:05:31.018
You know, you've, you've already proven so much to yourself,
01:05:31.158 --> 01:05:34.218
Andy, nobody's going to be critical if you give up.
01:05:34.418 --> 01:05:39.218
I'm like, wow, I've got this whirlwind in my head going on.
01:05:39.518 --> 01:05:43.358
And it was funny that Yogi, the mechanic, he's kind of, you know,
01:05:43.358 --> 01:05:45.358
just helping me get a few little snacks and stuff.
01:05:45.678 --> 01:05:49.218
And you obviously saw what was going on and you just went, you're right, Andy.
01:05:49.678 --> 01:05:52.978
And I was like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm okay.
01:05:53.578 --> 01:05:57.058
And he went, good lad. And just to kind of snap me out of it.
01:05:57.158 --> 01:06:00.218
And so I put my water bottles on the bike and, and it's funny,
01:06:00.298 --> 01:06:05.378
the minute I swung my leg back over the crossbar, I remembered why I was doing in this.
01:06:05.438 --> 01:06:08.678
I was raising a load of money for charity. I was proving something to myself.
01:06:08.858 --> 01:06:12.418
And I thought, you know what, if you don't do this, you're going to be the guy
01:06:12.418 --> 01:06:15.018
that rode most of the Tour de France, not all of it.
01:06:15.098 --> 01:06:18.898
And so the minute I started turning the pedals, all this kind of noise just
01:06:18.898 --> 01:06:21.278
went away. And I'm like, yeah, okay, we're back on it.
01:06:21.378 --> 01:06:26.238
And so I'm working my way up this, these 21 hairpins, it's getting darker and
01:06:26.238 --> 01:06:28.298
darker and darker. And eventually it's pitch black.
01:06:28.478 --> 01:06:31.358
And obviously when you're in the mountains, curtains you know there are
01:06:31.358 --> 01:06:34.578
no there's no ambient light it's just completely dark i
01:06:34.578 --> 01:06:37.418
guess you know i'm talking to somebody who really really
01:06:37.418 --> 01:06:41.058
understands that and i you've
01:06:41.058 --> 01:06:45.058
just got this little pool of light in front of you uh maybe 10 feet across from
01:06:45.058 --> 01:06:48.458
your your light and you're going along and there's people driving past in cars
01:06:48.458 --> 01:06:53.598
and everybody's tooting you know they can see what you're doing and and nobody's
01:06:53.598 --> 01:06:56.598
being critical everybody you know there's kids hanging out windows and go,
01:06:56.698 --> 01:06:58.198
go, go, go. And all this kind of stuff.
01:06:58.898 --> 01:07:05.738
And, and then this vehicle comes up alongside me and it's Yogi in the driving this mini bus.
01:07:06.058 --> 01:07:10.318
And he pulls up alongside and I can just make out in the glow of the headlights.
01:07:10.418 --> 01:07:12.338
I can see his face and he just gave me a little nod,
01:07:12.892 --> 01:07:17.012
And I kind of nodded back and I turned, I looked and I could see all the guys
01:07:17.012 --> 01:07:18.732
who'd given up sitting in the back.
01:07:18.992 --> 01:07:22.272
And I'll tell you, if you want to know what regret looks like,
01:07:22.332 --> 01:07:24.772
that it was etched on all of their faces.
01:07:26.272 --> 01:07:30.872
And I'm willing to bet that any one of them at that moment would have given the choice.
01:07:30.932 --> 01:07:33.552
It probably would have got out of the van and got back on their bikes again,
01:07:33.672 --> 01:07:37.692
but they made a choice at the bottom for all sorts of very good reasons.
01:07:37.772 --> 01:07:42.112
Let's be clear, you know, and who knows, but it's just interesting that when
01:07:42.112 --> 01:07:46.072
you get these moments of doubt, these moments where you have to make a choice.
01:07:46.892 --> 01:07:51.372
It's, is there a choice that is going to bring regret further down the line?
01:07:51.412 --> 01:07:54.972
And what can you do to avoid making that choice?
01:07:55.052 --> 01:08:00.752
And generally, and certainly for me, it's remind yourself why you're doing this.
01:08:00.892 --> 01:08:03.552
You know, you have to have a really good answer to the question.
01:08:03.692 --> 01:08:05.932
You know, why would I put myself through this?
01:08:06.432 --> 01:08:10.232
And for me, it was, you know, I knew a lot of people were watching,
01:08:10.352 --> 01:08:13.752
so a bit of peer pressure was good but actually i i'd
01:08:13.752 --> 01:08:16.872
raised a lot of money for this kid's charity and i thought am i
01:08:16.872 --> 01:08:19.792
gonna have to give this back if i i don't do
01:08:19.792 --> 01:08:25.072
this climb and sometimes you're just clutching anything that you can use in
01:08:25.072 --> 01:08:32.552
that moment but i was i was 50 50 and it just took yogi to go you're right to
01:08:32.552 --> 01:08:37.592
just kind of shake me out of it a little bit and the minute i got back going i'm
01:08:37.612 --> 01:08:40.912
like no I made the right choice but I came really close
01:08:40.912 --> 01:08:43.832
and yeah you know that
01:08:43.832 --> 01:08:46.672
is that moment changed me for the
01:08:46.672 --> 01:08:50.572
rest of my life because when you're
01:08:50.572 --> 01:08:58.892
presented with a a real dilemma like that let's call it it's yeah you learn
01:08:58.892 --> 01:09:05.732
a lot about yourself and I went on to ride slightly bigger mountains after the
01:09:05.732 --> 01:09:10.052
tour and lent back on all of this kind of stuff.
01:09:10.172 --> 01:09:16.952
Because when you start to get up to even higher mountains, it really makes you
01:09:16.952 --> 01:09:20.872
call upon whatever is within you. Yeah, absolutely.
01:09:22.712 --> 01:09:29.232
Man, so incredibly powerful. Not only just the story, but the mindset,
01:09:29.412 --> 01:09:32.512
this idea of choices, the idea of regret,
01:09:32.792 --> 01:09:40.472
so many powerful life lessons all contained within a three-week Tour de France journey.
01:09:41.132 --> 01:09:45.372
Remarkable. Thank you. I would love, one of my kind of last questions today
01:09:45.372 --> 01:09:50.452
is, here you are, this man who.
01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:58.799
You made a massive change, not just to stop drinking, but literally to go against
01:09:58.799 --> 01:10:04.819
basically your culture growing up, to go against everything you knew.
01:10:04.959 --> 01:10:08.279
You then embark on this whole new journey of cycling.
01:10:08.519 --> 01:10:10.419
You take on the Tour de France.
01:10:10.999 --> 01:10:19.119
How does your life look different today than it did before that day at the train
01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:22.239
tracks? I think there's a bit of purpose.
01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:27.599
I think, I think when you, you kind of suffer the way I did,
01:10:27.659 --> 01:10:33.979
and you transcend it, you get very keen to make sure that other people don't
01:10:33.979 --> 01:10:35.679
have to suffer the way you did.
01:10:35.879 --> 01:10:40.639
And I'm enormously passionate about helping other people now.
01:10:40.639 --> 01:10:48.099
And I think a lot of the cycling and the stuff, I've ridden my bike up to Everest Base Camp as well.
01:10:48.219 --> 01:10:55.739
And I do these things for charity because I spent quite a lot of my life hating myself.
01:10:56.539 --> 01:11:00.579
And I now do things that I would consider to be the antidote.
01:11:00.619 --> 01:11:04.639
I like to do things that made me feel better about being me.
01:11:04.639 --> 01:11:08.819
But I've always had a desire to help other people.
01:11:08.859 --> 01:11:14.839
And I felt so frustrated and so angry at the kind of the ineffectiveness of
01:11:14.839 --> 01:11:19.159
some of the options that were available to me when I was looking for help,
01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:22.819
that when I got something that, you know, and let's be clear,
01:11:22.859 --> 01:11:27.319
there are no universal sort of panaceas for anything.
01:11:27.319 --> 01:11:33.219
Anything, but something that would appear to be a little bit more up to date
01:11:33.219 --> 01:11:38.139
on this and perhaps more proven in the commercial world to work.
01:11:38.339 --> 01:11:41.699
I just got super passionate about wanting to share that.
01:11:41.819 --> 01:11:47.659
I got super passionate about wanting to challenge the narrative that your life
01:11:47.659 --> 01:11:50.699
gets worse when you're not drinking alcohol.
01:11:50.899 --> 01:11:56.319
I wanted to show everybody that my life got better and better and better and better.
01:11:56.879 --> 01:12:03.279
And just to give people some hope, whether you want to work with me or not, it doesn't matter.
01:12:03.499 --> 01:12:08.479
I just want to plant seeds that make you think, actually, you know what,
01:12:08.539 --> 01:12:10.859
that guy made it and maybe I can too.
01:12:11.579 --> 01:12:15.779
And it's been better than I could have possibly dreamed.
01:12:15.939 --> 01:12:20.919
If somebody went back in time to 2016 and said, right, okay,
01:12:20.939 --> 01:12:24.339
Andy, in six or seven years time.
01:12:24.559 --> 01:12:28.399
You'll have ridden the Tour de France. You'll have helped 6,000 people get sober.
01:12:28.599 --> 01:12:32.779
You'll have ridden your mountain bike across the Arctic Circle.
01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:35.359
You'll have ridden your bike up Mount Everest.
01:12:35.659 --> 01:12:43.519
You will be pursuing going and doing a mountain bike race in the snow across Alaska. I would have...
01:12:43.978 --> 01:12:47.698
Rejected that out of hand because you'd
01:12:47.698 --> 01:12:50.418
have been talking about somebody else and yet here we
01:12:50.418 --> 01:12:53.978
are and and that is just such a life-affirming
01:12:53.978 --> 01:12:56.858
thing to happen you go oh my goodness you
01:12:56.858 --> 01:13:00.898
know each time i push myself i
01:13:00.898 --> 01:13:05.018
you know don't get me wrong there are plenty of things that i can't do but actually
01:13:05.018 --> 01:13:11.858
i i exceed my own limitations every time i choose to do these things and in
01:13:11.858 --> 01:13:18.498
one of my favorite it quotes is that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it.
01:13:18.558 --> 01:13:20.758
And, you know, bad stuff happens in life.
01:13:20.838 --> 01:13:24.718
And my goodness, you know, when I come across people like yourself,
01:13:24.818 --> 01:13:31.698
who've dealt with the most extreme challenges and yet rise above it and choose
01:13:31.698 --> 01:13:35.998
to bring light to other people's worlds,
01:13:36.198 --> 01:13:39.598
you know, I get to spend time talking to people like you now.
01:13:39.598 --> 01:13:43.838
And, you know, I don't want to be kind of like, sound like a total psychophant
01:13:43.838 --> 01:13:49.078
about it, but it's kind of, it's so different to the guy at the train tracks
01:13:49.078 --> 01:13:53.178
who was just getting by, who hated himself,
01:13:53.458 --> 01:13:59.018
who was probably in danger of ruining another relationship, who was...
01:13:59.849 --> 01:14:03.509
Teaching his kids that life's just really hard.
01:14:03.709 --> 01:14:09.589
And the only way you'll get by is to obliviate yourself every evening.
01:14:09.849 --> 01:14:14.189
I teach my children much better lessons. My daughter is now a world famous actress.
01:14:14.429 --> 01:14:15.969
My son has gone to university.
01:14:16.409 --> 01:14:20.349
My youngest is just, makes me laugh every day.
01:14:20.769 --> 01:14:25.089
And it's just life is, it's just different now.
01:14:25.309 --> 01:14:31.109
And yeah, there are some things that you kind of go, oh, it'd be quite nice
01:14:31.109 --> 01:14:37.509
to go back to that kind of chaos or that, you know, just letting go and not
01:14:37.509 --> 01:14:39.869
having to kind of stare this stuff down.
01:14:40.089 --> 01:14:44.289
And then you pinch yourself and you go, yeah, but boy, what,
01:14:44.389 --> 01:14:47.829
what an adventure I have opened up for myself here.
01:14:48.269 --> 01:14:55.209
You know, riding your bike up Mount Everest is kind of something that not many people get to do.
01:14:55.209 --> 01:15:02.169
And you just go, well, I've just created this opportunity for myself by virtue
01:15:02.169 --> 01:15:03.509
of the choices that I've made.
01:15:03.609 --> 01:15:09.509
So, you know, if there is an overall message, I guess it's about choices.
01:15:09.709 --> 01:15:16.229
For me, the very definition of addiction is, yes, it's a choice to drink or not drink.
01:15:16.409 --> 01:15:23.149
But for me, I did not feel able to make the choice that I so desperately wanted to.
01:15:23.149 --> 01:15:29.369
And actually to get back to the place where you feel like you can make a choice
01:15:29.369 --> 01:15:31.529
is very life-affirming.
01:15:31.649 --> 01:15:37.069
I would argue it feels almost like a second chance. Yeah, absolutely.
01:15:38.229 --> 01:15:42.329
Andy, I have one last question, but before I ask you that,
01:15:42.549 --> 01:15:47.229
will you please share with us how we can get plugged into your world,
01:15:47.349 --> 01:15:53.149
how we can keep up to date with what you've got going on, on where life is taking
01:15:53.149 --> 01:15:55.029
you, where can we send people.
01:15:55.744 --> 01:16:01.524
So obviously my website is soberin7.com. So just all the words, soberin7.com.
01:16:01.704 --> 01:16:06.164
All my socials on Insta, Facebook, I tend not to do much on the X.
01:16:06.444 --> 01:16:10.504
You know, if you just search soberin7, you'll find me. And yeah,
01:16:10.604 --> 01:16:14.064
you know, things like the, I'll be keeping people up to date with the training
01:16:14.064 --> 01:16:16.684
for the Iditarod in Alaska.
01:16:17.244 --> 01:16:23.644
I've got qualifying races to do this winter in Norway and Finland and places like that.
01:16:24.004 --> 01:16:27.724
And you can go to the website, you can fill the form out and ask questions.
01:16:28.264 --> 01:16:32.564
I've got a free web class on there where I talk a bit about my story and a bit
01:16:32.564 --> 01:16:36.584
more about the process that I followed to get sober.
01:16:37.164 --> 01:16:42.824
So yeah, swing on by, you know, I'd love to chat with anybody who feels like
01:16:42.824 --> 01:16:45.924
maybe this has resonated, maybe this has struck a chord.
01:16:46.184 --> 01:16:51.724
Maybe, you know, I was looking for somebody, and I think this is probably one
01:16:51.724 --> 01:16:56.904
of my disappointments with going to AA, I went there looking for somebody I
01:16:56.904 --> 01:16:59.864
could point at and go, I want to be where you are.
01:17:00.384 --> 01:17:03.824
And I didn't find them. And so I want to be that guy for people.
01:17:03.984 --> 01:17:06.864
I want to be the one that's like, you know what, actually, yeah,
01:17:06.924 --> 01:17:13.044
I might not want to ride the Tour de France, but I kind of like how he's transcended this.
01:17:13.224 --> 01:17:17.944
And I like the fact, you know, I've got a lady, I get emails all the time with
01:17:17.944 --> 01:17:19.624
people who just do the most amazing things.
01:17:19.624 --> 01:17:23.264
One lady, she rediscovered her childhood love
01:17:23.264 --> 01:17:26.064
of crochet for goodness sake and she's in
01:17:26.064 --> 01:17:29.244
my facebook group and we were all having a bit of a laugh about it and then she started
01:17:29.244 --> 01:17:32.324
putting some pictures up and i was like wow you're
01:17:32.324 --> 01:17:36.264
really good and then she sent me a message and she said andy i've just been
01:17:36.264 --> 01:17:40.944
contacted by my local college to be their crochet instructor on their arts and
01:17:40.944 --> 01:17:45.824
crafts and i'm like that is so cool you know and that is her tour de france
01:17:45.824 --> 01:17:50.204
and i get these emails where it's like andy you're not going to believe this dot,
01:17:50.204 --> 01:17:52.524
dot, dot, dot, dot. And I'm like, try me. I will.
01:17:52.684 --> 01:17:57.104
And when you shift your perspective, it's just interesting how different things
01:17:57.104 --> 01:17:58.304
start to show up in your life.
01:17:58.404 --> 01:18:02.744
And I think overcoming an addiction can be just such a powerful metaphor for
01:18:02.744 --> 01:18:08.844
a turning point for anybody, but it's, it's scary to face down your own fears
01:18:08.844 --> 01:18:11.604
and that courage word that we've used a lot here today.
01:18:11.884 --> 01:18:16.264
It's, it's about finding your own courage and, and it's not about.
01:18:17.503 --> 01:18:21.283
You know, showboating. It's not about glory. It actually, when everybody said
01:18:21.283 --> 01:18:24.043
to me, Oh, Andy, you know, you're, you're such an inspiration,
01:18:24.123 --> 01:18:26.583
you know, when I was riding the tour and I'm like, yeah, but you don't understand.
01:18:26.723 --> 01:18:27.903
I'm at the back all the time.
01:18:28.183 --> 01:18:34.343
You know, there are guys there who are half my weight that are flying up the mountains.
01:18:34.383 --> 01:18:37.943
And I, I, I'm like, I don't get it. Why, why would you think I'm an inspiration?
01:18:38.663 --> 01:18:41.983
And someone explained it to me. It's because you're, you're
01:18:41.983 --> 01:18:45.263
in the struggle you're in the fight and if if
01:18:45.263 --> 01:18:51.783
i'd been uh you know a racing snake and 60 kilograms rather than 100 nod you
01:18:51.783 --> 01:18:54.823
know it probably would have been less inspirational because people would have
01:18:54.823 --> 01:18:58.663
gone yeah well you know he's a great cyclist and whatever but you know i'm the
01:18:58.663 --> 01:19:04.523
guy who didn't even have a bike when i signed up for it and and i think to watch people all enduring,
01:19:04.763 --> 01:19:07.003
I think is quite a cool thing.
01:19:07.203 --> 01:19:12.903
So yeah, you don't swing by the socials and visit the website and get in touch.
01:19:13.003 --> 01:19:16.763
You know, I'd love to have a chat with anybody that is struggling on this.
01:19:16.823 --> 01:19:22.203
I feel extremely duty bound to just shine a bit of light into the shadows on this stuff.
01:19:22.563 --> 01:19:27.943
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I will be positive that all of your links are all inside
01:19:27.943 --> 01:19:30.703
of the show notes today for easy access.
01:19:30.703 --> 01:19:35.443
Process you kind of spoke to it a little bit you know touching on my my final
01:19:35.443 --> 01:19:42.403
question is speaking to the person who's listening to us today who maybe they
01:19:42.403 --> 01:19:43.663
haven't begun the journey,
01:19:44.283 --> 01:19:48.123
they're they're in the thick of it though they they're suffering from some type
01:19:48.123 --> 01:19:53.403
of addiction yeah what would you say to them it's okay to be scared and it's
01:19:53.403 --> 01:19:57.323
okay to feel like you can't do this.
01:19:58.083 --> 01:20:02.943
If you've listened this far, you'll know that this can be a game of moments
01:20:02.943 --> 01:20:07.603
and you don't need many of them to make a big difference in your life.
01:20:07.723 --> 01:20:10.143
You will get aha moments as you go through this.
01:20:10.883 --> 01:20:14.543
Maybe you can work it out for yourself. I sometimes, you know.
01:20:15.307 --> 01:20:18.367
Say, well, I had to work it out for myself, but actually I didn't.
01:20:18.527 --> 01:20:21.427
I'd learned all this stuff. I just not put it into action.
01:20:22.007 --> 01:20:28.267
If you need some help, if you need somebody to put an arm around your shoulder
01:20:28.267 --> 01:20:29.767
and go, you know what? It's going to be okay.
01:20:30.447 --> 01:20:32.747
I'm here to tell you it's going to be okay.
01:20:33.487 --> 01:20:37.847
Yes, there are tough moments, but they will be just that. There will be moments.
01:20:38.267 --> 01:20:42.767
This This is not a 24-7 struggle. It's tough in the beginning,
01:20:42.867 --> 01:20:45.087
but actually it gets easier.
01:20:45.467 --> 01:20:51.007
And just find something that resonates with you, whether it's me,
01:20:51.147 --> 01:20:53.567
whether it's AA or something else.
01:20:53.667 --> 01:20:58.187
But just when something just starts to vibrate inside you and you go,
01:20:58.227 --> 01:20:59.427
you know what? I feel hopeful.
01:20:59.607 --> 01:21:03.127
Just keep running with it. One of the best bits of advice I was given by an
01:21:03.127 --> 01:21:07.427
old boss of mine said, he said, if you're stuck in the dark and you see light
01:21:07.427 --> 01:21:10.707
at the end of the tunnel, just head in that direction.
01:21:10.947 --> 01:21:12.907
Well said, well said.
01:21:13.247 --> 01:21:20.487
Andy, it has been an absolute joy to have this time with you today.
01:21:21.227 --> 01:21:24.807
Thank you, man, so much. It means the world.
01:21:25.107 --> 01:21:30.087
Oh, and thank you so much for inviting me on. You keep doing what you're doing.
01:21:30.247 --> 01:21:32.227
You know, we need more people like you in the world.
01:21:32.567 --> 01:21:36.007
Just, you know, showing people what is possible.
01:21:36.187 --> 01:21:45.267
How can you transcend difficulty with such dignity and grace as in your in your podcast?
01:21:45.807 --> 01:21:49.727
It's wonderful. I love it. And I love you, man. Well done.
01:21:49.847 --> 01:21:53.947
Thank you so much, man. So much for you listening today.
01:21:54.167 --> 01:21:59.787
My hope, as always, is that today's episode didn't just entertain you,
01:21:59.887 --> 01:22:03.507
but hopefully it has inspired you.
01:22:03.567 --> 01:22:06.287
It's empowered you. it's made you look at life a little
01:22:06.287 --> 01:22:09.027
bit different it's made you think what is
01:22:09.027 --> 01:22:12.947
my tour de france what is my thing
01:22:12.947 --> 01:22:18.067
my addiction that i need to overcome what is it that i want to do so that i
01:22:18.067 --> 01:22:23.447
can be in the position where andy is today looking back down the mountain to
01:22:23.447 --> 01:22:29.547
see where he's already traveled until next time this is kevin lowe with grit grace and inspiration.
01:22:30.160 --> 01:22:48.809
Music.