Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side.
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with everything on the other side.
Yes we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic, or to some the invisible world, life is going to be more fun and much more serene.
Uh heck, yes it can. Because let's be honest, br in, earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
That let's crush Earth School together.
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, stop dragging my heart around. I don't know. I didn't kind of a good one, but I have a right. I spell it different than he did.
Nice, I like it. I like it a lot. So today we get to talk about draker.
Hell, yes we do, and speaking of dragon like using it, you know, more as a verb. So you remember that when Susanne and I drove to Phoenix, which is also interesting related to this whole dragon story. But we went to Phoenix, which is right after my experience when I went into their world, which we'll get to at the end. But here's what's funny. I bought this big metal dragon. We went to Phoenix because I picked up my my, my Ralph Lauren Ryder's chairs from this couple that was
selling them, okay, and we rented a truck. So we have these two chairs on this truck. We decide to stop in Sedona, because that's what you do. And I found this big metal dragon and we tied it into in the truck and the whole time I drove my wife nuts. It was also of four days before that was the first time I talked to somebody from the other side. But the funny part about the dragons, I kept saying, stop dragon, my dragon, and I just thought
I was so funny. And then we ended up naming it Olivia Pope from the Showandal Scandal I know, Oh my gosh, if I had a prize I could give you through the screen, I would give you a prize. But anyway, so, so Olivia Pope sits outside of my casita. Oh my god, that's so hilarious. Yeah, photo, oh totally. And actually we had this kind of stump, like a
tree stump over here. I kept saying, Susanna, go, can we put Olivia Pope on the stump and she's like, baby, you can put your goddamn dragon wherever you want to. I said, yes, freedom to decorate with dragons. Okay, so we're talking about dragons. I jumped in real fast to that one.
You couldn't You couldn't I keep that one.
I could not keep that. I have a metal dragon name Olivia Pope in front of my Casidia.
I mean, come on, come on, that's pretty good, that's it. Yeah.
In fact, when we moved her, she has wings, and we somehow forgot to pack them. And you know, my high school boyfriend John, well, hold on, if there's a good ending, my high school boyfriend John and his husband went to our house and got them and they kept them. And when they drove they brought us Olivia's wings and we all had like a little moment where we put
her wings on her and all was right in the world. Okay, sons, Wow, I think I said before we started, we're not going to jump in, and I'm like, you just jumped on in.
Yeah.
So here's the thing about dragons. Dragons, you know, have this this presence, right, this bigness, this powerfulness, and when I think in my typical elfin way in terms of filmed entertainment, I think about, wow, well, how like this is interesting? Like how have they been picted it? And there's two versions I just want to quickly talk about. And one is because I also worked on a few of these movies. The do you ever see the how How to Train Your Dragon? The animated? Okay, so I
love that. I will tell you that. I think it was the third one. I remember we went to the DreamWorks studio a lot in Los Angeles, and there's we were about six seven of us were invited to go watch it before we released it, and it's probably months before we did. And I sat there and I was crying so hard at the end of that third one that I went and hid in the bathroom until everybody left, because I mean I was like not presentable, like I
somebody been like what literally, what's wrong with her? Oh? My god? I love it so much. So anyway, here's what's interesting about that. If you think about How to Train Your Dragon? It was set in kind of prehistoric
ish times, right. Yeah, So even they spoke in it, because it's a movie, they didn't exactly you know, the way they lived was very prehistoric, right, And tooth close to the earth, very close to the earth, right, I mean right, it was they used you know, fire and stones and stuff like that, and a lot of mythology, right, And actually there was a mythology in the movie about dragons until they actually saw one who was toothless the dragon and Footnote to everybody, if I haven't already said this,
I may have. Is the reason why we all love Toothless the dragon is because they modeled Toothless after a dog. Yes, so you like toothless wag's tail in his body and rolls around like that's part of how he developed that really like a puppy, how you developed the love for him. So that was you know, a dragon as a friend, right, not as a foe, not as a weapon, right, Like that's like tooth was a part of the family effectively.
Yeah, And that that's very different lore than dragons usually have. Dragons are usually something to be feared, something to be conquered, something to be avoided, like in the mythology.
Right, do you want to know when that changed because it actually didn't start that way.
That's correct, that's that's more modern.
But it is it is because it was you know, dragons had a they had a a a friendlier view, right. I don't know the best way to say it, but it was.
It was more like I'm going to work with you. I mean, it's more of a partnership than an adversary. Yes, right, but this is ancient times. Well it was pre Christian, right, pre Christian times. But it was something that you could give it an assignment of of you being the gatekeeper.
Right, right, right, because they they were they right. They were seen as useful and protective and and there were elements that were harmful and dangerous, but it wasn't it's like, listen, everything's harmful and dangerous if you well.
It's harmful and dangerous if you're if you're trying to breach the perimeter, right, then it's going to be harmful and dangerage dangerous. But if you don't do that, it's it's it wasn't seen as something that would just destroy you on site.
Right, So so if you think about how to train your dragon, that's like a pre Christian view. And they were friends, and they were friends, right, I mean it
was the children's or a family movie. But and then came Game of Thrones, right, So Game of Thrones they they were still that still existed, meaning the useful protective because there was because there was always family of like within the because the Game of Three owns like the different games were different families and all trying to see power. And one family was like the family of dragons, and so there was a friend.
On the one family had dragons.
Yes, okay, yes, the other ones tried to get them. You can imagine because they were saying so powerful, right, yeah, but that had that I think if I looked at a timeline was later than if I had to put a timeline to how to train the dragons. So you saw more of like the fire that they were creating that would come out of their mouth. You would see them like destroy right where you did. Like obviously Toothless wasn't a destroyer boy his every move you know, he.
Was a puppy.
He was a puppy. So but it is actually really interesting how dragons have been depicted throughout what we can see in time or thought of you out time and I think even you look at the touau, right yeah, so are you to show me the card?
Show you and no one else has this visual but in my deck called the beauty of terrou The five of fire is has a dragon sitting on top of a roof with five flames at its feet. Right, and so this, this dragon actually represents power to choose right, power to choose to protect.
Really, well, you're either have to slay your own dragon or it's going to slay you. Right.
Well, the dragon, the dragon is really represents yourself right where others are judging you or transformation is available. So what are you going to do? Right? Are you going to succumb to make people happy? Or are you going to fly away and suit yourself.
Well, I'm gonna fly away and I'm gonna like spit fire at people. Does that count?
And we're going to fly away right now and take a little break. We'll be right back and welcome back.
Thanks, I'm ready, I'm right. I know. I was just messing with you. Have a little pause to be like, wait, what's she gonna do?
Wait? What did I miss up there? All right? So nerdy alf, what do you got for us? Tell us more about dragon lore?
D r A g O N not d r A g g I N. So it's it's it's you know, I learned. I love this part. I love to dig around in this and read have conversations with you about it. I learned so much about it. So here's what's interesting about at least the origin of dragons. And the interesting part is that nobody actually knows when it began.
Like this just like.
They don't exactly right, but it doesn't it feel so ancient though, Like dragons feel like they have been a part. I mean, if you look at where they are known, like culture, it's you've said before when we were talking, you know about fairies, it's it's it's a global sensation, kind of like Taylor Swift global sensation. And so there's all parts. The one that I actually think probably has embraced the most, and it's also credibly old culture is
Chinese culture. And so China has very much embraced the dragons. You know, in their New York celebration, they always have dragons feature they have people that are holding them, and they crazy these incredibly yeah, these credibly long dragons, and they have dancers underneath them, and it's very much a part of their culture. But it's but they've been seen, you know, from America to Europe, from India to China, right, like they've just been all over in terms of our culture.
But I do think it's interesting that we don't know when or where. If I had guess, I still would guess China is where it originated because it feels like it's really strong there. Did you get the same?
And well, I would say documented probably documented.
Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but they but what they what the interneteb tells me is that these huge flying serpents were described at least as early as the age of the ancient Greeks and Samerians.
Yeah, and I think China would have been but.
Before that I think so too.
Yeah.
So yeah, I'm fully with you. This is part of the funny, y'all. It's like Brenda doesn't know any of like what I'm going to talk about, and we do it on purpose because it's more real for you guys.
I would also say, though, even when we have like dinosaurs being discovered right today, like they'll have bones, but they'll also like find little dragons, like they you know, they had little flying denisaur bones discovered in the past couple of years, right, and they will also identify as dragons, so they're like, well this would be considered just a dragon.
That interesting.
Yeah, Like it. It's so like even there's there's like legitimus to it because of because of that.
So so it's so, well, let's hit on that for a second and then I'll and I'm going to pivot us in a minute to Christianity. And what it change is that you know it today. If you ask somebody on the street, do you believe that dragons fly in the sky, They're probably going to say no, right, unless you're in New Orleans and it's one am, because I would have said.
Yes then totally.
But that's modern day, right. So what's interesting is I want to go back to and I always bring this up because this is you know, I did not learn history in high school because I went to MoMA, Oklahoma High School. But I have had to like postpone that part of my life, so at least now I remember it because it's all recent to me. Is that what's interesting about the evolution of mankind and I don't mean physical evolution, I mean more of our reading writing, like
just being literate. Right, so when we were illiterate, there is a pattern that has emerged over the last five hundred plus years. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned this about the fairies. Is what happens is we don't you know people, you know, they create stories, they tell stories. Sometimes it's for morality reasons, sometimes it's actually for control reasons. And then you start to get the artists involved and
then they start to create something different for it. And that is certainly you know what has happened with the Draggans in terms of what people believe that dragons were real. They started to dig up during that time, these very large bones, right, so they're digging up large bones around the world believing they're from dragons, but they were dinosaurs because we were illiterate.
And I mean they just didn't know.
They didn't know. But so science, literacy, those things I suldly add science. So science and literacy is the reason why you can ask somebody unless they're hammered in uh, in the French Quarter in any city really, but New Orleans is a favor of mine. They're like, no, they're not flying around, right because of literacy and science. But imagine before that and you're digging up this bony. You've heard stories of this magical wing creature that's like spit
fire doing whatever it's doing. You're like, damn, it's got to be real.
Yeah, so these are here it is.
Yeah, they were very real to people, and I think that's so important for us to understand. These were very very real. So and I just want to add that to your point about when people were finding like the dinosaurs and finding little you know, bones and that they say like they were dragons. So I'm going to pivot back to Christianity because this is really interesting. Are you ready for me to pivot back to Christianity? Okay, So remember we've been talking pre christian Now we're going to
hit this Christianity. And so when Christianity anity started spread across the globe, dragons took on a very different interpretation than what they did prior. Right, because prior they were useful, protective things like that. Christianity hit and it took it hit boom, Christianity hit, Christianity hashtag Christianity hit and they became very sinister. Right. There wasn't the there was no benevolence to it. There wasn't like I'm going to protect you.
There wasn't like, you know, toothless type of vision. Became very sinister because what the Christians did is that they they turned it to represent Satan. We've talked before about this, and it's okay if people don't believe, but the history books do show that that Christianity invented Satan.
Yeah, there was no devil in the Bible before the I get it. I can't. It's gone on my head that the one conclave that they had and then they decided, we couldn't get people to comply, so we have to invent the devil.
We have to scare them.
Yeah, we have to create compliance. Yeah. Right, And so they took something that was powerful and meaningful to the two cultures and they said you are now mine, and we're making you the devil. Right, I mean, that's they They kind of took out took the the figure of the dragon, and that's what they base say.
That they did. In fact, I think, okay, I'm going to confess I did, like go to episcopal charts and stuff, but that's actually part of my life. I don't remember, so, but but I do have this in front of me. Is that a character in the Bible, let's say Levithan. Okay, there is a massive monster described in detail in the Book of Job chapter forty one, and that sounds like a dragon. So this is after revisions, right, and this
is all in quotes. It is. It's back has rows of shields, tightly sealed together, each so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another. They cling together and not be parted. Its snorting throws out flashes of light. Its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from the mouth, Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boat boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth.
Sounds like a dragon.
Yeah, the Beleef and Dragons was based not just on legend, but well actually they created a legend and and and and it's interesting right because all like this has been written. People were finding bones, they're putting pieces together. It's kind of like, you know, it does remind me a little bit of Bigfoot, even because like anybody who finds a large but like, oh, this is what bigfoot. I have a picture of Bigfoot or I saw Bigfoot, you know. So it's just it's just it's it's fascinating. It's the
our journey as humans. Right again, I'm going back to literacy and science. It's a really interesting path because you know, I've studied quite a bit about the UH about the Spanish conquistadors, and and what you find and what I have found while researching this is it's very much the same pattern. Because it's like early days like the Aztecs, the Incas, the Mayans. You know, they they believed in
multiple gods. They believe that when the sun came up, it's because one of their gods said it was okay, right, kind of like dragons in that in that respect, and then and and an event happens. And so in this case with the tribes of South America, uh, it was the Spaniards. In the case of dragons, it's the Christianity. They were kind of both the same thing, just different times.
But then you know, then you start seeing more propaganda, right, So the Christians started propagandatizing the dragons, and they start propagandisizing them also through their art. So you would have artists that would start to paint what they thought a dragon looked like. But they always had a man slaying the dragon, right, so like this man is killing Satan, killing the devil, and man's in charge, like we can,
we can conquer you know anything. They did the same thing to Montezuma the Aztecs, where once Montezuma was killed, you have a lot of the French artists, Spanish, English, Italian artists that started creating these portraits of Montezuma as this very small weak man being conquered by a Spaniard.
So everything's about in a part of our history is about conquering, right, But you see this happen and like, honestly, I was reading this stuff going this all sounds like the Spanish Conquista doors as I'm reading through in a granted it was thousands of thousands of years prior to that, but it was still the kind of the conquering and the and the but still the pattern of it.
Right, It's like something that's never changed.
Yeah, well something so changed. It's like, oh, we're going to grab onto this, We're going to turn it into this and we're going to show how man conk it's always a man, not a woman, FYI, And how band conquers this, whether it's an actual person like Montezuma, or it's a creature like a dragon that they turned into a devil, it's just a really you'd think we're having a history podcast right now. I just felt really smart for a minute minutes up.
Yeah, it's and I do think the fact that if you go back to you know, that part of looking at art, you'll see so many dragons, some of them watching in the background, some of them literally you know, like you said, the in the focus being slave. But there's a lot of representation.
So many, right, and they were using like some of them had heads that looked more like lions, some of the heads look more like serpents, you know, Like it depends upon where in the world the art was being created. It was taking from their own culture, and I just think it's a really fascinating thing. It's like, oh I just actually found right, I learned this from It's like the elephant in India, or that of a lion or bird of prey in the Middle East, you know, or
numerous heads of reptiles such as serpents. So depending upon where the art was being created, Yeah, that's what that dragon looked like.
Yeah, depending on the culture, what visual it needed.
And color of the body. That's another interesting thing because you know, they range from and I've seen all of these green, red, black and usually yellow for the record, which I find fascinating, but you also see blue and you see white dragons, which we'll talk to in our next section. But it is a very it is a you know, this is I think the dragon lore, I guess we call it. That is one of the more I think they're all fascinating. Don't get me wrong. I mean I dig the ls, dig the fairies. We're gonna
keep going on this whole thing. But the dragons, the presence that they have, and how it has been contorted, Like, honestly, you don't see the contortion of the story of the fairies, you don't see the contortion of the stories of the elves, but you see the contortion of the stories of the dragons.
Well. The other thing is though that also in the fairies tend to have a human form, right related, and the dragons are not human form at all. They are their own special magic.
And it's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.
Yeah. I think that they have a lot of power. And I mean Christianity is known for taking things that are valued and powerful in other cultures and making it part of their own new lore that they need to change, right, it's why we have Christmas near solstice because they knew, you know, the solstice was powerful for the Celtic people and they needed to get them on board, and that's why they put Jesus' birthday in December.
Right, A bunch of hijackers, Well.
They're opportunists for sure.
That's a much nicer way than what I just call saying hijacking. But listen, it is fascinating, right, Like, I still love this whole topic.
And that's why it's really great just to know the history of things, know where things come from.
It's so fascinating.
We do. Yes, we'll be right back.
All right, y'all, we're going to stop dragging your time around.
And we are going to wrap this thing right, which how dragons are real for us, so you can share with us how dragons are real for you. So we all get to work with dragons in our own way, and we can call them in and invoke them or just acknowledge them when they show up, and we don't have to be afraid and try and control them or
slay them. But so I have traditionally worked with dragons in the traditional way I understand them, which is as gatekeepers and one time I was visiting with a client in my office and we get to the end of the consultation and she said, well, I have one question, and I was like, okay, what's your question. She says, what's the dragon in the corner doing. I said, that is none of your business?
The best answer ever, By the way, it's not your budess not.
It's not your business. Our business is done here, thank you very much. She ended up to, you know, be a steady and work on her clairvoyants and her intuition. And it was a great student and saw dragons and work with dragons.
Yeah, because I love that. I love that.
I'm just saying that they are real and they are powerful and use them. So I hope, I hope people will find their way. So now, my elf, I know you have.
Yeah, I do, And I have actually told a story. I'll do a short version of it, and I'm going to relate it back to the very beginning of when I like literally jumped off the cliff. I got so excited and start track talking about dragons when we first started literally after hello, I have a dragon named Olivia Poe. So what happened days a couple of days before that trip was I had my own trip, and I was transported. I mean, we can call it a dream, but I
was utterly transported. So I found myself while I was sleeping in this other world and part of it looked like our world. I was up on this kind of a mountain. It's where I could see down upon a town and what I remember seeing a dragon, very large dragon, and it was a metal dragon because I could hear the clicking and you could see and it was flying and it was flying through or like through the town or the city, around the buildings, not hurting anything, hurting anybody.
And it was early in my own journey, spiritual journey, and it came up to me and I'm just talking to like, I'm talking to you, and I pulled out my phone to take a picture because that was like the early ghost photographer days, and it said that doesn't work here. I'm like okay, and I'm with these other people. And I had a car there, which is very weird.
And the camera won't work, but the car will.
But apparently I can. I can't have a camera, but I can have a car nice And so that I don't remember exactly what happened with that dragon left or whatever it was, and something I think he said some about you can't paste that picture. Maybe there's some about audio or something that he said to me, and it
was a he I don't know. And then there was this little because when we talked about color being white, that I experienced this white wispy type of drag is smaller and I could still see it to this day, this white whispy dragging like makes his way over or her way over to me and full on starts to talk to my ass, not my ass, but me, and it's like, here, you must follow me. I have a very important message for you. And so I follow this dragon and we go back to my car, which had a hatchback.
I mean, whatever, it's it's my dream I can have a hatchback.
I guess. I mean when when I tell you what the dragon said, it kind of makes sense why I had a hatchback, and the dragon said everything you need to know is in here. I think the car was me just for the record, and I could see through the glass of the hatchback that there were file boxes so everything. So I but I remember I woke up from this and I and Susanne always wakes up before me. I mean, I'm a late sleeper, so you know, our
clocks are hours off of one another. And I like, get up out of the I'm like charging into the living room, where I knew she'd be drinking coffee, and I said, did you see the dragons last night? And she goes, what, I said, where's my phone? Just what is wrong with you? I said, I might have the picture of a dragon. I might not. I don't know, maybe there's an audio file. Da da da da da. And She's like, what the hell's going on. I'm like, I don't know, but did you see him? I mean,
like it was that real, right? And of course that's how I respond, Yeah.
Well, dragons are powerful, right, I mean it is, no, it is a rush when you see them.
So here's what happened. We'd had this plan trip to go to drive to Phoenix. We already had we rented a pickup truck to go get these chairs that I wanted really bad. And we're in this truck, we're driving to Phoenix. We're almost into Phoenix, and all of a sudden, I say to Suzanne, I said, would you believe me if I told you your sister Sally was talking to
me right now, and she goes, yeah, I would. And I talked to Sally for Suzanne for about forty five minutes to an hour, and there are all things I didn't know, They're all things that Suzanne would know. And it was the first time I ever spoke to somebody on the other side. So everything I needed to know, everything I needed was inside of my little hatchback, which is and that's when it all.
Started such a great story.
And that's when I got Livia Pope. Yeah, so I very much have a connection to dragons. I very much believe in what I I think there is there's a dimension of space for dragons because I was there. It was so it wasn't a dream. It wasn't like some made up stuff. It was a real interaction.
Well. Yeah, just like the fairies have their domain, the alves have their domain, the dragons have theirs.
I don't to me, the dragon onod isn't as easy to cross over as the oid ones.
Are because it's not a humanoid based, right, you know, it's a different a different, completely different frequency.
Yeah, and so the dragons changed my life full on, just like how the fairies when you were five. Ye was a life changing moment for you. The dragons were a life changing moment for me. And so here's what's funny, y'all. When I called Brenda to tell her about what happened, what did you say to me? I'm like, what the fuck are dragons doing get into my ship?
Like? Why? Why? Why was it a dragon? Why? You were just like, why why dragons? I don't I don't get it. I don't get it. And I'm like, well, if they if the message had shown up from my cat, would you have paid attention?
Right, I'm a good point.
You would not have paid attention.
You needed kitty, kitty kitty.
Yeah, you're like, what of right.
But I'm going to listen to a dragon?
Yeah, you would have blown that cat off.
I'm out of a peditant given it some you know, snack, but I'm not quite sure I would have been so obedient.
Yeah, but.
If you're gonna he did the dragon magic, I did? It was amazing. So again, y'all, we share these because it is this part of what is so magical and mystical about our world, about the universe, about what is possible. Because in all these stories that we tell you, we're telling you our stories.
And again we talked about the other side obviously, but the other side's here and it's available to us, and that's what we want you to remember.
And if you see a white wispy one, give it a smooch for me because she was fabulous and I just and it's like I have not forgotten really that that. It's like everything I need is inside my little hatchbag. And I think my hatchback was white too. It's really weird.
It's nice.
Yeah, my little crappy hatchback cars Man probably white because that's my hair's turning.
Damn it. Thank you Mike Al for doing all your nerdy research and for sharing your story. Thank you for listening everybody, and remember our school is.
Hard without the other side in the dragon rail me all. If you can get there, go it's magnificent. Okay, we love you guys, tell us stories. Kay, bye bye everybody.
Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
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