EP1
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[00:00:00] Dean: So welcome back. I'm thrilled to have Dr. Jeff Peterson, who serves as the West Point Superintendent's Senior Advisor for Character Integration, with us today.
Welcome, Jeff.
[00:00:08] Dr. Peterson: It's good to be here, shane.
[00:00:10] Dean: Thanks for taking some time with us. Jeff's background is fascinating, so I'll read you just a few points from his bio. So Dr. Jeff Peterson served on active duty for 28 years in a variety of leadership and staff positions in the United States, Korea, Cuba, and the Middle East to include a combat battalion command during the surge in Iraq.
After command, he served as the director of West Point's economics program from 2008 to 2014. [00:00:36] In 2012, then Colonel Peterson was the Director of Center for the Army Profession and Ethic, also known as CAPE, where he led the effort to publish the Army's first doctrinal manual on the Army Profession and Ethic.
As the chair for the study of officership at West Point since 2015, he stewarded the West Point superintendent's capstone course on officership known as MX400, designed character and leader development programs, and advised senior academy leaders on the state of West Point's honor system. As the character senior advisor, he leads the efforts to better integrate character development across the [00:01:12] West Point leader development system to ensure our graduates lead honorably, live honorably, and demonstrate excellence.
Thinking about the next episode, you were the top of my mind. Character development is something special about West Point. We know that we are more than an academic institution. We talk about that a lot. But central to everything we do is character, and you and I have talked about how it's foundational.
And how all of our other pillars, as we like to call them, are tethered or nested into this foundation of character. So , let's talk about what you're doing today. And so, to get us started I think our listening audience could use some context.
And so, let me just ask a very [00:01:48] general question. Why is character so central to the mission of the United States Military Academy?
Well, when you think about why West Point even exists, our sole purpose is to provide commissioned officers for the United States Army to serve in the Army profession. And the bedrock, or the essential ingredient for the Army profession, is trust.
And trust is really a function of three things, at least according to Army doctrine, and I think that this is pretty accurate. Trust is a function of [00:02:24] competence, commitment, and then character. And it's a combination of all three. And if you don't have all three, then trust is gonna be broken. So, as an institution, who is providing close to a thousand officers every year into the Army profession, we need to make sure that they're trustworthy.
And so a critical component of that is character, and character development. So that's why I think it's essential for what we are. Now, One of the interesting things about West Point is we often have to think about what our comparative advantage is related to other commissioning sources, [00:03:00] related to other ways that people can become officers.
And there's an argument to be made that you can get a good education in a lot of different places, you can get in shape in a lot of different places, you can get military training in a lot of different places. But there's only one place where you get all three of those. Immersed in this culture of army profession and character that really creates an expectation for exceptional trustworthiness in our graduates.
So that's why I think it's central to who we are. We have to get that right.
Inextricably linked to character at [00:03:36] West Point is, I would say, the honor code. And I think most would. Most graduates, or those who know West Point, know a lot about our honor code. It's very simple. A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those that do.
Could you explain how you see it connected to character, why it's important, and then I'll follow up with how it's developed over the years.
[00:03:58] Dr. Peterson: So the Honor Code, in the minds of most graduates, and largely I think in the minds of America, is one of those sacred things about West Point. When people think about West Point, one of the [00:04:12] first things that often comes to mind is the Cadet Honor Code.
[00:04:15] Dean: I agree.
[00:04:16] Dr. Peterson: And, this code has evolved over history. And one of the interesting things about this job is that I have dug deep into the history of the honor code. And the reality is we didn't even have an honor committee until 1922 under then Colonel MacArthur, when he was the superintendent.
We didn't have a written honor code until 1947. We didn't have the toleration clause, or the non toleration clause, until 1970. [00:04:48] So the code itself has evolved over time. But it has always been foundational. The baseline expectation is that you can take a cadet or an officer at their word, and that they will play fair.
And that they will enforce that standard on other people. And that has become really the foundation of everything related to character. Two major evolutions. One is, we now view it as a foundation to character. In the past, it's sort of been the [00:05:24] pinnacle of character. So we've kind of flipped that a little bit.
The expectations for what it means to be honorable have changed, evolved, and expanded over time. So the honor code, although sacred and foundational, is not sufficient for the character we need in our graduates.
[00:05:42] Dean: Yeah, can you talk about that a little bit? That was, that's interesting, talking about the honor code basically at the pinnacle of what we expect in terms of character development, and now it's foundational and it's really the starting point.
Can you talk about how that changes the expectations of what we want out of a graduate.
[00:05:59] Dr. Peterson: [00:06:00] So when the early conceptions of honor in the profession were that, as I stated earlier, you can be counted on to tell the truth and that you would have the physical courage to go into battle and bear whatever sacrifices needed to be born.
What was not part of that equation was how you viewed other people, how you treated other people, your own personal conduct in your private life could be separated from your professional life. These things have changed. So now there's an expectation that [00:06:36] character and honorable living also includes the way you respectfully treat other people especially people that are different from you.
And if we don't do that, then the result is when we try to lead these diverse formations that people won't trust us. So it always comes back to trust. And so The idea of the Honor Code is still foundational, it's still sacred, it's still important, but it's also insufficient, and that is a major change. So, an example of this is that we have [00:07:12] a barracks here at West Point named after Benjamin Davis, Jr.
He was silenced simply because he was an African American. But every graduate that was in that class or in the Corps at that time that silenced General Davis considered themselves to be honorable. Today, that's completely unacceptable. Right, so this is how this notion of character and what it means to live and lead honorably has changed.
And I think it's changed for the better, right? We're expanding what it means to be honorable. It [00:07:48] also makes it a little more challenging to develop the character necessary to be honorable. But I think it's an important move forward.
[00:07:55] Dean: When you say General Davis was silenced what does silenced mean for those that are listening?
[00:08:00] Dr. Peterson: The equivalent of today would be being ostracized for some reason. Essentially, being silenced meant that Benjamin Davis lived alone, he ate alone.
He spent all of his personal time alone. And the only time another cadet would even speak to [00:08:24] him was in the conduct of official duties. So when you think about the stress and the importance of relationships at West Point, the idea that an entire group of people are silencing you simply because of the color of your skin.
I can't even imagine what that would be like. And that's clearly dishonorable and trust breaking within the formation. And at the time, it was accepted. It's no longer acceptable, and I think that's a move in the right direction.
[00:08:58] Dean: Do you think [00:09:00] that the expectations that someone's gonna live, live honorably In all aspects of their life.
What you're basically saying is that the expectation is that you're going to be the same regardless of the situation. There's going to be an authenticity to you. You're going to treat people with respect in all situations. And then we expect you to live. And you made an interesting point about there's no line of demarcation between your personal life and your private life.
Is that realistic? Is it realistic to hold someone to that type of expectation?
[00:09:32] Dr. Peterson: I do think it's realistic, but that doesn't mean [00:09:36] it isn't really difficult. But if we think about this in terms of acting differently in different situations, then the only way we can count on you to be a person of character, a leader of character, is when you're in a situation that we think requires it.
But leadership today requires A life that is not compartmentalized. If I'm a platoon leader, and I have a mixed gender and a mixed race platoon, [00:10:12] and I come to work and I say, You know what? I'm going to treat everybody fair. Everybody's going to be equal. And I have the power to put you on additional duty.
I can submit you for awards. I can put you, I can recommend punishments. But you just need to know that while I'm at work, I'm all for you. But then when I go home or on social media, maybe I'm posting racist or sexist comments. Maybe with a certain group of people, I'm treating women or people of another race differently.
If I'm a soldier and I [00:10:48] find out about that, how can I really count on you to treat me fairly? If in one environment you're saying that I'm not equal, but in this environment you're saying that I am, I just don't buy that. I don't think you can turn it off and turn it on. Either you respect me or you don't.
And, you might be able to pretend like you're respecting me, but if you really don't, then it'll come out eventually. It'll come out when you're tired. It'll come out under stress. It'll come out when you're not being watched. So that's why I think we have to push for this idea that you can't really be one person at work and another person at home, [00:11:24] at least not in the Army profession.
[00:11:27] Dean: And that's, it does, like you said, it all goes back to trust. And I actually think the practical reality is, it's very difficult to be different people or have different perspectives in the contemporary age, especially with social media. I mean, that's just, it's just very hard to try to act one way.
In a professional environment and think that no one's going to see how you act in a different environment.
[00:11:49] Dr. Peterson: I mean, the reality of the way society has evolved, it's becoming increasingly hard to compartmentalize your life. Yeah. It's more difficult to [00:12:00] hide. It's more difficult to pretend. It's also more difficult in the military because in, in these environments we're spending so much time together in so many different situations that's going to reveal eventually who you are as a person.
And so you can't just Keep up the false front through all the conditions that an officer has to lead through. So it's better just to be a person of integrity, right, that I'm like this all the time. This is who I am. Doesn't mean that I'm perfect. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to offend people sometimes.
It doesn't mean that I'm not going to make [00:12:36] mistakes. But I'm genuinely a person who cares about you, who respects you. And if I Somehow disrespect you, then I'm humble enough to admit it and self aware enough to say I'm going to do better next time. I hope you can forgive me and we'll move on and continue to try to build this team.
[00:12:53] Dean: Which is an interesting point. That means that there has to be a little bit of grace with people too to make mistakes if you're going to have a life that's fully exposed.
[00:13:01] Dr. Peterson: Right. So much of our development and discussions today talk about The actions, or the attitudes, or the character of [00:13:12] the alleged perpetrator.
Right? The person who offended somebody else. We spend a lot less time on how should I respond if I'm the person who's offended. And that's also a matter of character. Right? And you mentioned grace. There's this idea of giving a person the benefit of the doubt. Their action is one thing, their intent is completely another.
They could do something that is offensive, not even be aware of it. And if you just gracefully, [00:13:48] kindly, in a civil way, confront them and say, Hey listen, Jeff, what you just said, that's kind of offensive, and here's why. Now I don't think you meant it. But that's how it impacted me. Most people, I believe, if confronted that way, would probably apologize profusely, want to make it up, and will take positive steps to not do that again.
I don't think we're really there yet, right?
[00:14:13] Dean: That takes a level of maturity. Right? I mean, it takes, and confidence, where you can say, Hey, you know what? You did this. I don't think you meant it. Here's how it impacted me. But it also [00:14:24] means that you're opening yourself up to a conversation.
Where, cause the response could be, I mean, I don't, I didn't mean to offend you, and I don't think you should have been offended by that. I mean, there's a, there could be a real discourse here.
[00:14:36] Dr. Peterson: The hard part of that statement you just said is, I think it's okay to say, I didn't mean to offend you. But you go a little bit too far if you say, and you should not have been offended by that.
Now I'm trying to tell the other person how they should react to my action. The appropriate response to being confronted, I think, would be something along the [00:15:00] lines of, I'm really sorry that I did this. That was not my intent. How can I do better? Or I will work hard to not do that anymore. But we have to be very careful of telling people that they should respond or should not respond to some particular action in a particular way.
[00:15:19] Dean: Yeah, that's good. Okay, so let me segue. You came out of Battalion Command during the surge and then you made a decision to invest the remainder of your professional time in the military and as, and in your civilian capacity by coming to West Point. But How did an armor officer with an economics [00:15:36] background then become the leader of the character efforts at West point.
[00:15:41] Dr. Peterson: So this is just another twist and turn in the crazy path of my professional life. My first tour of duty with the Department of Social Sciences. I was exposed to another mentor of mine, Dr. Don Snyder.
And Don Snyder is probably the most prominent scholar of Army professions in our generation. And I just had multiple conversations with him [00:16:12] about the purpose of the Army profession, why it was important.
This was a time where I was really struggling with whether or not I wanted to stay in the Army. So these, to me, were critical discussions not only about my own personal decision to stay in or to leave, but also to understand this organization that I'm going to remain a part of. So that was really the nudge that put me in this direction.
And then I had the opportunity to serve one year as the director for the Center for the Army Profession and Ethic. We published that doctrine on the Army Profession and I [00:16:48] just, this started becoming the passion of my life. I mean, I love economics. I'm not a world class economist, I love it, and it was fun to teach and fun to run that program, but economics in many ways was a means to an end for me to come back to West Point to develop leaders, to develop officers.
So now I had a better understanding of the purpose of the institution. I could more effectively integrate that into my academy professor role, but then it eventually led to the chair of officership in the Simon Center, and then through [00:17:24] a few different events, we came to realize that, hey, maybe in terms of character development, we need to do a little better job of integrating it across all the programs and elevating it to maybe the superintendent's level.
And so that's Sort of the pathway that led us to where we are.
[00:17:41] Dean: So that is, clearly an immense amount of responsibility. To have , this, the job of integrating character. And when you stepped into the role, what's the first thing you did? Like, what is like the first step you took to being like, Okay, how do I help character integration evolve at West Point?[00:18:00]
[00:18:00] Dr. Peterson: So this is gonna sound really basic. But it's almost essential to what we're trying to do. And one of the first things we had to do is define specifically what we meant by character. It's amazing how difficult it is to define character in a way that most people agree with. People are very uncomfortable with defining it.
People are very uncomfortable with assessing it. Trying to judge other people's character. And there's lots of good reasons for this. But that was really a major [00:18:36] hurdle. And we're still wrestling with that. There's army definitions of character. There's definitions of character that come out of institutes that study character.
The definition of character has been evolving and up for debate since Aristotle. And it really hasn't been settled. But one of the luxuries we have at West Point is that we are preparing people for a very specific line of work. And so we can establish an ethic that we expect everybody to abide by, and then that becomes the azimuth for our character [00:19:12] development efforts.
So the first thing was defining it. The second thing was how has it developed? And then the third thing is how do all the things we do at West Point contribute to that development? So it's a tiered process.
[00:19:24] Dean: All right, Jeff. So, here's the challenge. Define character.
[00:19:29] Dr. Peterson: The way we have constructed a definition of character that's workable for the requirements of the Army profession is that a person's character are those traits and attributes that lead them to do the right thing at the right time for the right reason [00:19:48] and with the right emotion. And the key here is reliability.
It needs to happen whether they're being watched or not. This is not about extrinsic motivation where people do things so that they don't get punished. This is about intrinsic motivation that I'm going to do this because this is who I am and this is the right thing to do. That is a lofty goal.
[00:20:14] Dean: Yeah, that really is.
[00:20:14] Dr. Peterson: And it's reflected, though, in some of the traditions of West Point. The Cadet Creed. Help us to choose the harder right [00:20:24] over the easier wrong. These things about the creeds we have on the warrior ethos, Warth's battalion orders, Schofield's definition of discipline, these are all ways to try to animate or illustrate what we mean by character.
General Gilland, our superintendent, his big emphasis on character is that it's revealed through your actions and your decisions. So it really is about how you're behaving and how you're either building or eroding trust over time.
[00:20:55] Dean: And so some who are listening may think, well, West Point's always [00:21:00] done this. All right. West Point has always had character integrated and woven throughout the experience.
So what is different about your efforts.
[00:21:08] Dr. Peterson: So I'm gonna point to really two things. The first is that for the longest time, probably up through the mid seventies, a baseline assumption of West Point was that character was fixed. That character was set by the time that you showed up. And West Point did two things for your character.
It either strengthened it, Or it revealed it. And if it revealed it to be bad, then we just separated [00:21:36] you. We didn't spend any time for development. So the character development was not a deliberate effort. It was just assumed that with all the activities, all the pressures, all the requirements, would strengthen the character that you already had.
So we didn't really need to define it other than don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal. That was basically it. Well Not only did the requirements for character expand, we began to realize that maybe it is possible to develop somebody's character. We [00:22:12] don't know exactly how, but we're investing so much in people that to just kick them out It seems like a waste of resources.
So maybe we can take somebody who's made a, had a character lapse, and we can develop them over time. And so we've migrated towards this developmental model, and there's all kinds of components to it that we can discuss, but that's
[00:22:34] Dean: I think, one of the interesting questions, which is We look at an 18, someone between 17 and 23 that comes to West Point, but stereotypically, let's say it's a cadet who's a plebe who's 18 years old.
And they're adults, albeit [00:22:48] young adults. And they come in here, and the question is, can you really develop their character? And what we're saying is, yes, we believe you can develop someone's character. They're not fixed. To follow on to what you were just starting to move into, how do we develop that, the character of the cadet over the 47 month experience?
[00:23:10] Dr. Peterson: So this is a question that's largely still up for debate, and I don't think it's a settled issue. The way I think about this and attempt to approach it is that developing character is not [00:23:24] terribly different than the way we develop other skills and attributes in people. I do want to start by saying, I'm not sure that it's possible to completely transform somebody's character while they're a cadet unless they have some really negative experience.
Right, sometimes the impetus for change is that something bad happens and you realize, oh my gosh, I have to change my ways so that I can either stay at West Point or become the kind of person I want to be. But for the person who's just steadily going through, I'm not sure that [00:24:00] character is transformed, but I do think that it's changed some, and I do think that we equip people to change over time.
I look at my own life. When people tell me that character is not developed while you're a cadet, I think about my life as a plebe versus my life as a firstie. I was a different person by the time I was a firstie. In lots of different ways, but part of that was with my character. And then when I think of how I was as a firstie compared to how I am now, I've continued to grow.
And I still got a long ways to go. I mean, one of the [00:24:36] challenges with this is that character is a lifelong thing. So we're not Perfecting somebody's character as a cadet, we're trying to improve it and then give them the tools for lifelong learning. So, compared to other ways of developing people, you need some knowledge, you need some practice, you need to reflect, you need to get some feedback on how you're doing, and develop habits that result in good conduct.
And these are the kinds of things that equip you to develop your character over time, to strengthen it.
[00:25:06] Dean: Now let me shift specifically to academics. You and I have made some [00:25:12] efforts to try to to emphasize character education throughout the academic program. I always like to distinguish between education and training. We do both here at the academy.
We do both very well. The training is a bit more of a Effort to indoctrinate someone in a particular way so that they get good at it. I think about going to a rifle range. Education is preparing someone for uncertainty. Asking them difficult questions that perhaps there isn't a right or wrong answer to.
And I think that character education fits very well inside the broader academic program. So one [00:25:48] effort that we have tried and that we're really putting some effort into is creating a character thread. A thread we have a number of threads that run through the academic program, this 40 course sequence that that cadets take, and threads, right now we have two, one focused on the study of war, and one focused on the human condition, and what we try to do is emphasize certain components of individual courses to create a more comprehensive approach to education in these particular threads.
And so, The character thread is similar, which is we're trying to pick certain courses that have certain things in [00:26:24] there that might highlight to the cadets certain attributes or values or behaviors that we would like them to reflect when they become officers. Can you speak to this character thread that, that's been developed and how it's being organized?
[00:26:38] Dr. Peterson: So I think the character thread, which right now consists primarily of five core courses, is one of the most essential parts of what we're calling a common character experience. So when we look at the totality of West Point, what we're trying to do is harness [00:27:00] All the activities in all of the programs that contribute to some aspect of character development and try to turn them into a coherent whole.
So that in the minds of cadets, they're going through this experience and they can put together all the pieces that they're learning about character. The academic thread. is vital for several reasons. First of all, an important part of character is intellectual virtue. So they're learning the aspects of critical thinking, curiosity, love of learning.
And so these are all part of good [00:27:36] character, and that's ingrained into the academic program. But they also get exposed to ideas under the tutelage of a member of the profession. Now, it might be a young captain or major, it might be one, somebody from the more senior military faculty. It might be from a civilian faculty, but they're also part of the army profession, as part of this team.
So, within this environment, they get taught by a fellow member of the profession on the content that's appropriate for character. [00:28:12] And then they get a chance to reflect on it, they get a chance to discuss it. And then if we get this thing right, they can take that from the classroom, and they can take that into their summer training experiences, into their athletic experiences, into their activities and clubs and their cadet life.
And so all of this begins to reinforce by all the different experiences that they have. And so these five courses that have been initially indicated or dedicated as this character thread I think are essential for this overall character [00:28:48] development effort.
[00:28:48] Dean: What are the five courses?
[00:28:50] Dr. Peterson: So there's a total of five courses in the core curriculum. Two of them are taken plebe year. History of the Army, what we call HI 101. Every plebe takes that in the fall semester. Then there's psychology for leaders. Half take it in the fall, half take it in the spring. Then in the yearling year, they take philosophy, which is a focus on moral reasoning, moral and ethical reasoning.
In their junior year, they'll take military leadership. And then in their senior year, they take the superintendent's [00:29:24] capstone course that you mentioned earlier. It's called MX400, but it's on officership. And so that course in and of itself is an integrative course that draws upon multiple experiences.
But what we believe is that those five courses provide a common thread on helping to transform somebody into an army professional, giving them the skills they need for leadership to help them with moral reasoning, and then to apply this in the military context. And every single cadet has to take it.
Every cadet is graded on it. Every cadet is taught by a [00:30:00] professional member of the faculty in these five courses. So these are all the best practices, not just for education, but also for character education.
[00:30:09] Dean: One of the things I think that you've done that is both smart, but also an indication of how dedicated you are to this idea of helping create this threat is your teaching. And you're teaching HI 101, which is the history of the Army of the Republic. And so, what's some of your takeaways from teaching these new plebes this particular course, not just in terms of, how much fun it is to teach cadets, but also what have you learned as you start to come in with a little [00:30:36] bit of a focus on the character component of the history that they're going to be studying.
[00:30:40] Dr. Peterson: Teaching this History of the Army course has been one of the most eye opening experiences for the potential of academic courses for character development. It's just an amazing course. Colonel Jason Mustein is the course director. Gail Yoshitani is the history department head. Brian Gibby the deputy.
And they have put together An excellent course that sets all the foundation to help plebes understand the army [00:31:12] profession and what it is they're joining. And what's so efficient about it is that the lessons we're taking out of history are really lessons about character. So here's a couple of examples.
On the personal character piece, there's all kinds of examples of leaders who overcome adversity, deal with moral complexity, and then lead soldiers in incredibly difficult environments. George Washington is an obvious one. General Grant is another obvious one. [00:31:48] Both of these men had to overcome incredible difficulty, had to overcome a lot of self doubt, a lot of public doubt, and had to set the example for what they expected their soldiers to do.
And there's very specific things in the readings that draw out how this happened. The second thing is that we often take for granted Today, the status of the army as a profession and that the nation is not worried about having a standing army. This is not the history of our army. In fact, America was very [00:32:24] afraid of a standing army.
Not just the economics of it, but the fear of it, that it would take over the government. And this is rooted in fact, in how they were treated by the British army. We take for granted now that America doesn't worry about that. But the only reason they don't worry about that is because we've evolved as a profession.
Civil control of the military is a critical part of our profession. And that started in the Revolutionary War. The Newburgh Conspiracy, when George Washington put down a revolt of officers that [00:33:00] were ready to march on Congress. George Washington giving up his commission once the war was over and turning in his sword to Congress and saying, I'm not going to stay.
He had to operate in an environment that was at times hostile between him and Congress, but he always deferred to Congress. And then this becomes a thread throughout the whole course. And then the third thing is just the moral complexity of the missions that the Army has the moral complexity of leading a diverse Army.
The Army's been very diverse for [00:33:36] a long time, depending on how you think about diversity. But these leadership challenges are there. This history course brings it out. Now, I have to say a very public thank you to Jason and Gail. Because I'm not a historian. So, they've extended a lot of trust towards me in being able to teach this.
But to be able to get a granular view of the readings and to think of it through a profession lens and a character lens, it really helps me think about how we connect all of these ideas.
[00:34:07] Dean: And I think that's, An interesting part to you teaching this. [00:34:12] course to, to plebes and our freshmen is because you also can bookend it with the course that you did help develop MX 400, which is officership, which as you pointed out, superintendents capstone course, cadets are expected to integrate so much of their experience, both academically, as well as all their other developmental experiences, and come together and be put into a classroom where they have challenging scenarios put before them how has H. I. teaching this PLEAB course, and then also having such a knowledge of MX400, helped you understand how we can build [00:34:48] this character integration throughout the academic program?
[00:34:50] Dr. Peterson: Yeah, that's a great question. This is the first time I've taught PLEABs. I've taught every other class except for plebes. And what has stuck out to me in a noticeable way is that almost all the plebes are very eager to learn. They're glad to be part of this. They sense that they're part of something bigger than themselves, which I think helps us in terms of attracting people here.
But they have no idea about anything in the Army. [00:35:24] The only experience they have for most of them right now is cadet basic training. That's their whole exposure. They don't understand profession. They don't understand the civilian control of the military. They don't understand the hardship or the difficulty of the situations.
And so what we're doing with this course is we're exposing them to what We are preparing them for, it helps them make sense of all these different things that they're going to go through. This is just not something random that's designed to make them miserable. It's preparing them for these great challenges.
So now I have a snapshot of what [00:36:00] they look like, or what, where they are as plebes. But then I've taught multiple sections of MX400 and to see that growth, if you can compare those two populations, is incredIble.
[00:36:11] Dean: And so it confirms the thesis that we can develop someone who comes in when they're 18 and then over the 47 months we do see not just maturation but character development.
[00:36:22] Dr. Peterson: I believe that to be true. Yeah. There's good assessments in MX400 that Talk about alignment of personal values with army values, about internalizing this identity as an army [00:36:36] professional. There are some limitations to it though. One of the we cannot replicate the weight of responsibility at West Point.
We can't fully replicate the sustained difficulty of combat operations and deployment. We can give them a taste of it. And so we can get them an MX400 and they can articulate answers. This is what I would do. We put them through some role playing so that they can demonstrate it. So we can show a mastery of some comments.
[00:37:12] But the reality is that there's limits to what we can do to really test the character when it matters. And so what we hope is We've done all the right things, we've followed all the best practices, we've prepared them as well as we possibly can, so that when that moment of truth comes, they'll be ready.
And I think, for the most part, our track record is pretty good about people rising to the occasion. We always have examples of failure, I mean, we're human beings. But, on the whole, I think West Point does a good job on preparing people to handle those situations.
[00:37:46] Dean: So, one of the things that [00:37:48] has been implemented not additive, but just they were already there were a number of essay prompts through these various five courses, which obviously assess a cadet's ability to write and to be able to think but it also, what we found is gives them a chance to reflect.
How has this been important to this integration effort?
[00:38:08] Dr. Peterson: So as you mentioned, the reflection on experience and writing it down is a significant contributor to character development. And so we have two courses that have taken very deliberate steps to integrate essays and assessments across [00:38:24] the courses.
And these two courses, the one during their junior year is military leadership, and then their senior year is the officership course. So there's two major writing requirements in the military leadership course. One is called a journey line, which is a reflection on your life and how you've developed up to this point, and what the implications are for the future.
And then a leadership. Philosophy paper. And the nice thing about the course that they have set up and has been going for a long time is when they write these papers, they find a mentor in the staff, faculty, or coaches that coaches [00:39:00] them through the writing of this essay. So it's not just an individual exercise.
It's mentorship and coaching along the way. And then, they keep those essays, and then when they get to the officership capstone, they have to write a self assessment on what do I need to do for the next year or six months to get myself ready for commission service. Cite your leadership philosophy essay.
What it brings some examples from your journey line, and then they write some essays on what the oath means to them Moral challenges that they've faced at [00:39:36] West Point, but all of these essays are integrated into almost one coherent experience To try to integrate these two courses and in launch them into commission service from there.
[00:39:47] Dean: So, what are some of the challenges that, that we find in integrating?
And you pointed this out, there's, it's hard to replicate some of these real world experiences, which is, there's no way to do that. But what are some of the other challenges in integrating across the academic program? This effort to try to emphasize character development.
[00:40:07] Dr. Peterson: Well, I think the biggest cultural challenge and mindset change [00:40:12] is that we need to embrace this idea that Character development and competence are not in competition with each other.
They're actually mutually reinforcing. Good character enhances competence increases confidence, which then leads to, it's easier to be a leader of character when you're confident about yourself. And so, the And the idea that we need to master, and this is true in the Army, it's true in any organization, is that the time we spend [00:40:48] on character is not displacing competence, that we can actually bring these two together to get more efficiency and effectiveness out of a single event.
And it's hard to get over that cultural hurdle, right? The traditions, the norm is that I have my lane, you have your lane, and if your lane gets bigger, my lane's going to get smaller. So it's a zero sum game. This is perfectly normal. I mean, people respond to incentives. This is how we're organized. So we shouldn't be surprised by this, but we do need to take some steps to.
And I think [00:41:24] that if we start to change that where, for example, an SA in PL 300 isn't competing with character education, it's actually enhancing character education. So we just need to realize that these are not necessarily in competition with each other. And then that makes integration easier.
[00:41:44] Dean: The theme this year, for the academic year, is innovation, technology, and the future of national defense. When we talk about innovation being a mindset, This effort to try to not make character just a siloed program equivalent to the physical [00:42:00] program or the military program or the academic program, but instead to make it foundational and thematic and approach character education holistically is really, truthfully, revolutionary.
And it's, we're trying something very different. Why? Why did, why do you think we needed to try to tie all this together?
[00:42:22] Dr. Peterson: I think there's two reasons. One is a very pragmatic reason, and one is just more about being a profession. The pragmatic reason is that unfortunately, we've had [00:42:36] trends of trust breaking behaviors that are going in the wrong direction. So there's this immediate urgent issue with issues about sexual harassment, sexual assault, some challenges with the honor code and the honor system, the ability to enforce standards, they're challenges. And so we have to get better at those.
But the normal response to those things is we need a prevention program for behavior X. Then we need a different prevention program for behavior, why? Well, there's only so many hours in the [00:43:12] day. You can't just keep wedging all of these little prevention programs into whatever time is left over. So, it just, the pragmatic thing is we have a behavioral issue that we need to address and we don't have the resources allocated correctly to try to address it.
And if we did, we would start undermining other important parts of our mission. So we have to figure out how can we make better use of what already exists to accomplish more than one thing at a time. I call it a high payoff task. I'm not sure that's a very original term, but if I do task X, [00:43:48] It's a character development, it's a prevention, it's achieving a military goal and maybe a teaching and academic goal.
And that way, I can use resources that are already in place to elevate the whole thing instead of just trying to tag on all these little things in whatever wedges of time we can find available.
[00:44:06] Dean: Instead of trying to be reactionary, it is trying to and address what might, what is a corrosive behavior.
The idea is, through this singular effort towards character development across all these pillars. You should elevate character amongst [00:44:24] cadets and graduates. And as a result, the positive consequence would be the decline in corrosive behaviors.
[00:44:31] Dr. Peterson: That's right. That's right. It's And this is a little bit of the criticism, which is It can be viewed as an indirect approach, that you're not taking a direct approach to adjust behavior.
I don't think the research shows that very many of our prevention efforts are very effective at reducing prevalence rates. And so we have to get creative in trying some new and different things. And there's a growing body of [00:45:00] literature on upstream prevention and how do you accomplish prevention before, well before all these behaviors emerge.
And one of those upstream prevention aspects is character development. There's one other thing I wanted to say about the importance of this and why we need to do better. And I would make this argument. We could have cadets at West Point that have no misbehavior, no misconduct, no character lapses. They could just be perfect people.
We're sending them into an army that is going to [00:45:36] increasingly face moral complexity and moral challenges that if we don't prepare them adequately for it, we're going to regret that. Our op tempo is going up. Our resources are going down, but the expectations don't change. Those are three ingredients for ethical fading, moral disengagement, rationalization, and There's much that's been written on this.
Out of the War College Dr. Lenny Wong wrote an article called [00:46:12] Lying to Ourselves, and it's about how the Army can tend to cut corners when they have too much to do and not enough resources to get done. There's a lot of debate about that article, but the conditions, if we're not careful, the conditions are set for moral lapses, and we need to prepare the lieutenants for that.
Because that's where it starts. And I think General George, in many ways, is starting to recognize this. He's talking about, for example, platoon inventories. We tell cadets in MX400, your first big moral challenge is your change of inventory, change of command inventory. Because there's going to be a lot of pressure [00:46:48] to, Yeah, that's there, or somebody borrows the tool from another place, so we count it as ours.
And you've got to set the standard early, but that's where it all begins, and then it's maintenance, and then it's training. So we have to prepare them to handle this pressure that we know exists in the Army.
[00:47:05] Dean: And we talk about this often, which is, we're putting serious effort into trying to help cadets.
When they graduate, become the officers that can successfully navigate the complexity, the uncertainty, the ambiguity, the grayness that you just described. And so, this effort [00:47:24] towards emphasizing character across all of our programs, and specifically in the academic program, isn't simply, or shouldn't be viewed simply as a defensive effort to try to Eradicate corrosive behaviors, but it also should be viewed as an effort to preparing them to be successful in the most difficult of human conditions, which is warfare.
And I think you would agree.
[00:47:47] Dr. Peterson: I completely agree. And I think that's consistent with the idea of what professions are and what America expects from us. Professions largely define themselves by [00:48:00] exercising judgment and uncertainty in whatever their area of expertise is. And so we're going to put our graduates in different situations that they never expected.
As a tank company commander at Fort Cavasos, Do you think I ever imagined that I would be in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? No. Right. But I had to exercise judgment on how to do all this. Now some of my decisions were better than others. I'm not saying I got it all right. But West Point helped prepare me to think through that.
And I think it's going to be even more complex. As we move forward, when you think about how to exercise judgment in this [00:48:36] environment where I have a very diverse platoon that has all kinds of different dynamics going on, a mission set that's uncertain, technology that's invading the battle space like it's never happened before.
I'm under scrutiny of the public through all kinds of social media and news. I've got people who are watching me operate while they sit in their living room watching me on TV. Or on their phone. I mean, that is an intense, stressful environment that requires incredible judgment. So part of this is giving them the tools through the academic program, the military program, the [00:49:12] physical program, to navigate all of that.
I think that's the essence of why West Point exists. And it's also the essence of why character is important, because that judgment has to be based on exceptional Character, adherence to an ethic that meets the expectations for public trust. It's an enormous responsibility.
[00:49:36] Dean: Alright Jeff, so I'm going to go into some rapid fire questions. Here you go. Are you ready?
[00:49:39] Dr. Peterson: I'm ready.
[00:49:39] Dean: Alright, what are three books you'd recommend to someone wanting to integrate character development into their organization?
[00:49:47] Dr. Peterson: West Point [00:49:48] perspective of it, read Carved in Granite by Lance Betros. It's probably the best and most thorough analysis of West Point's history as an institution and how all the different programs interact. If you want a business application, I would say go with Stephen Covey, The Speed of Trust. It's very practical and it captures the damage that a lack of trust can bring.
And so I would definitely recommend that book. And then, a book by Martin Dempsey, No Time [00:50:24] for Spectators. I think that's one of the best books that talk about his experiences at West Point and how he then applied those experiences as a very senior and accomplished leader. And there's great discussions about the importance of character.
So those three would be good.
[00:50:41] Dean: If you could have lunch with any historical person, who would it be?
[00:50:45] Dr. Peterson: So this is gonna sound a little bit out of the norm. But it comes from me teaching the History of the Army course. And it's about a Medal of Honor [00:51:00] winner from the Boxer Rebellion.
And this person, Calvin P. Titus, who scaled the walls of Peking. He was a musician. In the regimental band, the infantry unit couldn't figure out how to get up the wall, and so the commander turns and says, I need somebody to get up that wall. Who can do it? And so this musician from the band raises his hand and says, I'll try, sir.
And he gets to the top, and they have a breakthrough, and they have a tactical victory. So Calvin Titus was [00:51:36] awarded the Medal of Honor, and then received an appointment to West Point. He was the only cadet at West Point to be presented the Medal of Honor as a cadet.
I'd love to have lunch with him. Figure out what happened after he graduated and what it was like to be an underclass cadet wearing a Medal of Honor. And how the interactions with the upper class went.
[00:52:00] Dean: Yeah, that's like a, that's like a get out of jail free card in any situation.
[00:52:03] Dr. Peterson: So I think he would be incredibly interesting.
[00:52:05] Dean: I'd wear that medal of honor everywhere. Is what I would do if I were him. What's the best advice you ever received?
[00:52:11] Dr. Peterson: So I [00:52:12] have a former brigade commander who retired as a four star general. General Stephen Townsend, who gave me two pieces of advice that I do my best to apply in professional situations. The first was, it's never too late to not do something stupid. And I think about that all the time because it's easy to get caught up in the momentum.
And you get on this proverbial bus to Abilene where everybody's afraid to say [00:52:48] we shouldn't do this because of the time that's been spent already, but you can always stop doing something stupid. Then the second thing he said was, If I haven't given you appropriate commander's guidance, and you can't get in touch with me, figure out what that guidance should be.
And then act as if I gave that guidance. And I didn't realize it at the time, but what he was doing was empowering subordinate leaders to do what was necessary to get the job done. [00:53:24] Don't wait for me to tell you what needs to be done. Figure it out and get it done. And I think that's pretty powerful.
[00:53:29] Dean: That's, that is a clear advantage to the U. S. Army when we empower junior officers to do that. Agreed. What's your most treasured possession?
[00:53:38] Dr. Peterson: Well, I recently, this is a recent one for me. So, my father was a chaplain in the army for 30 years, and recently passed away. And part of remembering him was to put together a photo collage that runs, [00:54:00] with music in the background. As I watch that, I'm reminded of how one person, who is a person of character, can have such a positive impact on his family, on such a wide circle of friends, and in his case, the United States Army.
And I find that to be pretty inspirational, and it connects to everything that's important to me. That he relayed to me the importance of family, the importance of faith, the importance of our country. Serving the country in the army and doing [00:54:36] the very best that you can to be as good a person as you can for as many people as possible.
So I watched that and That's my most prized possession right now.
[00:54:47] Dean: So that replaced your cadet robe? Is your most prized possession?
[00:54:51] Dr. Peterson: Yes, my cadet robe is not quite up to that level. But close.
[00:54:57] Dean: Well, thanks for joining us, Jeff.
[00:55:00] Dr. Peterson: I just want to take a moment to express my gratitude for the chance to visit with you on this podcast and to share some of my perspectives on character development at this great [00:55:12] institution. It's such a privilege to work here and it's great to be part of an important mission and so thank you for giving me this opportunity.
[00:55:20] Dean: Thanks Jeff, Be sure to tune in to the Inside West Point Ideas That Impact podcast next month.
Remember, you can find this podcast, as well as the other podcasts, journals, and books, hosted or published by the West Point Press at westpointpress. com. Until next time.