Yusuf Cat Stevens

Lynda Ronstat. Songs like Peace Train, Moonshadow, the First Cut is The Deepest and Wild World all bear his trademark sincerity and spiritual curiosity. He began his career as a swinging London teen idol, notching baroque pop hits like Matthew and Son and Here Comes My Baby. The sophisticated melodies quickly earned him a reputation as one of the most precocious minds in music, and hey, his handsome Mediterranean features

looked good on Team Beat magazines too. Are a time he ran with the likes of Jimmy Hendrix and the Walker Brothers, but the hard living rock and roll lifestyle soon caught up with him. After a bout of tuberculosis landed him in the hospital. He began to embrace some more stripped down sound and lifestyle. He emerged that the dawn of the seventies as a folk tings troubadour, equal parts mature and mischievous, beguiling fans with his musical missives

from his metaphysical journey. It made him a global superstar. It His gargantuan material success left him with more questions than answers in the search for inter fulfillment. A near death experience while swimming in the Pacific precipitated a spiritual awakening, which led him to adopt the Islamic faith in seven. For many years, he rejected the entertainment industry and the songs that had used to touch so many, Taking the name Yusuf Islam, he sold his guitars and dedicated the

next three decades the theological study and charity work. The new millennium marked a gradual reconciliation with both Western music and his own legacy. He's released four albums of new Western music, and in recorded a reimagined version of his breakthrough nineteen seventy album T for the Tillerman. Now he's

overseeing a massive reissue project. He's most recently revisited nine seventy ones, Teaser and the Fire Cat with a mammoth four disc box set featuring unreleased tracks, unheard demos, and rare live performances. It'll be followed on February twenty two with the soundtrack to how Ashby's coming of age cult film Harold and Maud, which is being made widely available for the first time, complete with nine songs and dialogue

from the movie. Many fans thought they'd never see the day when he returned to the songs they love so well, and it's been a joyous homecoming for all concerned. I'm so happy to welcome to the show. Josef kat Stevens. Oh my goodness, and I have so many things I want to ask you about, but I guess to start. Caesar in The Fire Cat was released in one very pivotal point in your journey. Can you take me back to that time. I mean, where were you at personally

and spiritually? Uh, well, personally, I was, you know, engaged, very engaged with my music. Um on one level, Um, that was the the outward you know, sort of if you like existence. Um. But but within me. I had already started u my spiritual journey, you know, sometime back after I had recovered from tuberculosis, and that was in and and so I was also on a very uh you know, deep search forum for meaning and so, and that of course came out very very um you know

clearly in my music and my lyrics. Um you could you could see them all all the thoughts that I had, and all all the fears and all the hopes, um, you know, all transparent within my music. I mean this in en seventy one was just after Teeth of the tilement went, you know, completely global and must have changed your life immeasurably. I mean, you had success in England in nineteen sixty seven, but now you've gone from playing clubs like the Gaslight in Greenwich Village to playing Carnegie Hall.

What was your relationship like to this this new level of fame at that time? Was it thrilling? Was it unnerving? Or was it all the above? Um? Well, I'd reached a certain plateau and you know, I don't see that

there was anything hindering me from going even further. You know, that was that was what that was a kind of state of mind I was in um t for the Turnamoun was done, you know, but there was a high level of expectation for the next album, and of course most most of my concentration went into my songs, you know, my my, you know. The the touring was kind of less important for me, but it was important to kind of connect. But at the same time, what I was

really doing was was writing and recording. That was my world, and then we revealed it, you know, during during the concerts and during the tours. So yeah, I kind of I didn't want to repeat till a man in a way, I could never do that, and um, you know I had to. He still had a lot of songs left over because during my convalescence after the hospital, I was

writing so many songs. I had about twenty five songs to kind of fill out more or less three albums, you know, from the very beginning, Um someone finished, you know, some needed fixing and but some I needed to write more. So that's that was my whole, you know life at

that time. It was I was very excited by the fact that people are really listening to me, and and I had an audience, you know, and and that's always what I think drives you, you know, I mean, if you if you're alone and in the desert, nobody's listening, you know why I sing another song that That was exactly what I was actually going to ask him. Always this question is going to completely give away the fact

that I've never written the song of my life. I'm so curious for people who are are blessed with the ability to write music, what compels them to do it? Is it a desire to connect with other people? Or is it to get something out of you? And if you, you know, would you write the same number of songs if you were alone on the desert island? But it sounds like for you it's more for connecting, Um it

is it is. It's a well first of all, you know, you go back to the tradition and you see that there are these trooper doors, you know, trooper doors kind of like they entertain people. They entertained the king, you know, only abody to get it right, you know, otherwise the shop so um so. And not only that, but it was a re attractive vocation, you know, so definitely you attracted a lot of female attention. And that was good too.

You know, you could see the image of the trooper door singing up to the balcony and she's kind of leaning over. So there's that kind of romantic side to which was like the I suppose one of my first incentives, um, but not just that I loved music. I mean I loved music. Problem was, um, I couldn't really seeing other people's songs. It took too long to learn, like the chords, and I was still kind of getting my way and finding my way with the guitar and then the lyrics.

So you know, I just started writing my own and I felt I had a lot of a lot of things and a kind of a different and a new unique angle to perhaps you know, to to convey. So that's why I started writing songs. And it was because I did have My first audience was of course my family, and my mother was my number one fan, you know, and you really need that encouragement. Um in the beginning.

For sure, if if if I listened to my brother, I would not be, you know, the person I was, because he just didn't have any confidence and he said go back to art, you know. So Um, because I was an artist originally I wanted to be an artist. So so it was that confidence I was getting from my mother and from my sister, and then my brother

joined in. You know. Um, so so when you start rolling and then you find that people actually like your your music, and you know, and when I started writing songs, first of all, I was hoping to be a songwriter before I was thinking about singing my songs myself, you know, becoming a you know, a sort of protege of the pop music business. I wasn't interested in that. I wanted to write songs, but then not everybody could get around

my lyrics, around my style love. You know, music was slightly odd and angular and some of the timings were like weird, so therefore I had to kind of sing them myself. And but when people did sing my songs, I was lucky to get a few hits in the very early stages, because here Comes My Baby was a song which um was kind of I signed it over to this one of my first publishers, and they got it, you know, um to the Tremelos. I know, you had a massive hit in the in the States with that,

so you know, that really gave me confidence. And then of course it was all rolling on from there. A few years back, you released but I think was the first song you ever wrote, Mighty Peace on the album Laughing Apple. And it's just so astonishing to me they think that that was your first song, and yet I mean lyrically, it's so sophisticated and there's so many themes on it that you touch on throughout your work. It's just amazing that that a song mighty piece was your

starting point when you first begin writing songs. Was there a specific message that you in your mind that you wanted to to get a cross? Um? Uh, you know, I think I wrote a song which kind of explained it um on the album called is It So? And and the song is called I Never wanted to be a Star? Well that wasn't quite true, but you know, um there was that instinct to want to be a star and a superstar why not? But but no, there's the lyrics say, you know, I never wanted to be

a star, tongue in cheek. Um, I only wanted a little bit of love so I could put a little love in my heart. And that's kind of like actually it was the truth of the matter, was you know that there is a kind of, um, a relationship, but a loving relationship between the singer and the listen and the listener whoevers you know, enjoying the music at the time. Um and so um, So I think that I was looking for appreciation, for acknowledgment, for recognition, and and the

things I had to say. We're interesting for a lot of people because I, as I said, I came from a slightly diverse background and and a unique background. When when you're writing, do you get more inspiration looking outward or looking inward? Well, I think both are important. But of course outwardly, Um, you still perceive the world through your inner prison, you know, of of of the self. You see it through this glass which we call the soul,

you know. And and and if you are a little bit empty in that department, then you might want to kind of you may want to go for the world a little bit more, you know. And and so there's this kind of balance between you know, trying to achieve something outwardly, but really are you are you achieving it? Is it really making you happy? All those questions, you know, have to be asked and and of course they're not

quite answered. But when when you want to um, when you analyze it, I mean listening to to teaser in the fire Cat. I mean, there's there's so much wisdom on that album, and it's incredible to think you're only what three when you wrote about these philosophical questions that

you're grappling with. Listening back to it now for you with with so much more life experience, are you impressed in a way or are there feel things that you feel you got right or I guess on the flip side, any things you feel you got wrong on some of the lyrics on the album. I think I've got a lot of things kind of out of me, and I

think that was the most important thing. Was that was to get it out, to break out of my kind of shell, because you know, I was a little bit of an intro I think you have to be in a way. An artist wants to express himself, he can't do it any other way than through his art. And I think that was it. Um. So I wanted to to express and I did. My words became very, very translucent, and you could you could see exactly who I was.

I wore my heart on my sleeve, as I say, you know, so that um and there was nowhere else to hide. When I was writing my songs, I didn't really want to hide anyway. So it was very frank. But at the same time, there was this inspiration which came which I don't feel as if I'm totally responsible for that because there were so many great things going on at the time anyway, you know, music was a

certain peak. Um. Of course Beatles had broken up on all that, but there was this new fusion, a new wave of of inspiration which I think was taking place in the seventies, and I happened to sort of, you know, ride that wave. Yeah, I have to ask because it's it's been on my mind lately, and we were talking about this before you hopped on the car. If you've been watching the Beatles Get Back documentary, I know they meant a lot to you as a band. Was curious

what you thought of that. Well, I haven't seen The Beatles to Get Back yet, but I kind of more or less know what what it what it would be. I'm interested to see it, actually, but I haven't seen it yet. Um. But the Beatles were of course, you know, they were they were the pioneers for us. Um. The fact that they you know, came from like Liverpool, you know, and they and they made it um in such a way to such a degree that everybody in the world

knew them. Maybe it might be a few pockets in Africa and somewhere else in the desert they may not, but most of the world knew John, Paul, George and Ringo. I think I got that right in the right order. But anyway, Um, they were so influential and they never stood still. I think that I learned some something from that. Um they were not satisfied and they kept on reaching further, and I think that also inspired me to do the same.

You know. Now, John also was you know, a promoter of of peace, you know, that was a big inspiration. George was a promoter of the spiritual path. You know, that was very influential. So they really did have an impact. I mean you could see that on I mean obviously that the most obvious Carl Larry would be imagined to peace train came out in the same year and are both imagining and hoping for a world, you know, a

brighter future. Yeah, yeah, that was so you get to a point when, um, you know, souls are a little bit like mirrors of each other, and and definitely that was one aspect of Lennon's Um you know dream that I enjoyed as well, and I took part in and so imagine also it has a very interesting angle for for this for the atheist, it may be a kind of proof that you know, Lemon didn't believe in God, but then you have you got him singing about God

in another place on another track. UM, yeah, still questioning. But I don't think he had a doubt about the existence of God. It was just that maybe Yoko had a little bit more influence in that song than than perhaps he did in that particular department Over the years, when when asked to name a song of yours that's meant the most, yours really stuck with you. You've repeatedly mentioned the Wind, and I wanted to ask you what

was it about that song? What is it about that song that continues to make it so powerful for you?

Because it was one of those which um arrived without effort and reflected perfectly, you know, my position on the path at that moment, and in fact, it kind of depicts more or less my position today because you know, I'm still trying to find out what God wants or what God knows, and I don't know it, and you know, God does so it's it's a matter of finding out, um, you know what's in store for you, but having trust um that you've made a certain decision to to to

leave bad things behind, you know. So I say in that song, you know, I'm not going to make the same mistakes never, never, never. That's not quite true, because you can't stop making mistakes. But it's it's the wish to get over and get past those mistakes that I think that song represents. And it's still me and you know, and it's the most accurate I would say, depiction of

my of my spirit. There was an interview you gave recently where you said something a phrase or an expression I'd never heard, but it's it's stuck with me the last few days. A coincidence is the way that God keeps himself anonymous, and I haven't been able to get it out of my mind. I wanted to ask you more about that. Do you believe that we choose our path?

Or is there a destiny, some kind of preordained That is the very I was almost impossible question um, because what I've learned and what I have learned through through reading and finally from reading the Koran, there is a there is an acceptance that God must know I must know everything if he's God has to so. But that doesn't stop us or from doesn't stop God from giving us the ability, you know, to choose our destiny. And we're going to shoes probably what we're going to choose.

And that's like I've written, I've written a song about that. You know, you know the road you chose is the one you know you chose. I can't I can't remember the lyrics exactly, but it's something like that. So you you meet your own destiny with your own volition. But it's kind of like waiting for you. But if you wouldn't you don't want to be a fatalist. We're not fatalist. We believe that change is possible. If you don't think that, then nothing can ever happen in your life that would

surprise you. It's just at the you're a cork on the ocean. You're just at the mercy of you know, you're going to take take control of whatever it was in you. I suppose. Yeah, well, certain times, you know, there are there are certain divine interventions which you need that I mean, you know, like you know Moses couldn't have, you know, parted the waves by himself. H And so there was this It was waiting for him. It was waiting for that moment, and it had to be him,

and it had to be that staff. And you know, as all these things come together in God's most perfect universe, you had a very uh, this is not on my list of questions. You had a very special moment in the ocean, yourself in the water. You know, that was a very crucial moment in your life. Yeah, for sure,

that was like the moment of reckoning. What it was the It was a time when I again realized my own frailty and weakness inability to to actually saved myself, you know, and therefore you put yourself in the hands of God and that and that was it, and I was home and dry. Then I had to work out what did it mean, you know, And then it came, you know, the gift was my brother gave me after that of the Quran, which then opened up all the

all the pages of understanding which I ever wanted. Of course, that was before political Islam ever rose its head in Iran or all the other places. Um. And this was a very quiet time on the on the spiritual front. Yeah. I mean you see this this searching in in so many of your songs. I mean, it's it's all throughout this album. What was your working relationship like with with Paul Samuel Smith. How did he assist in in shaping these songs and giving voice to these you know, the

these textures. Uh, well it was I think he probably saw me like some kind of tornado. Um. I had all this kind of amazing energy which he had to put into order and on tracks and make it, you know, listenable, and he did. He he had that calmness about him, which which was very very complimentary to me. Um, you know, because if he was like Phil Specter, you know, we wouldn't have worked together. It would be impossible at the

point a gun at me all the time. So no, So Paul was very very gentle and and he just wanted me to be in the moment. He just arranged the studio in that way, and he brought along these great musicians which I never knew before, you know, so as all Paul's choosing like bringing Allan Davis on board and Harvey Burns, you know, John Ryan and Pete, Peter Gabriel, you know, he came and played flute once, but it

was really Alan Davis. I think who who who did the most in kind of helping me Um I wasn't such a great guitar player, but he was so much better than me, and he filled in those little gaps so beautifully, so you know it was made in heaven sort of. I love hearing how you you you conversed together musically, you and Allen. I think it's so beautiful and the harmony's just always there, and even in I've seen clips of you playing relatively recent concerts pre COVID concerts,

obviously at it and it's still there. It's really beautiful to hear. Yeah, Alan's a big mate of mine and I love him. I mean this teaser in the fire Cat, I feel like, more so even than Tillerman, has so many unique and great sounds and textures. I mean, there's the calypso sounds of Tuesday's Dead and the influence of your your Greek heritage really comes through with the bazooki players on on Ruby Love, which was that in seven eight times something like that interesting time signature. Were you

surrounded by that kind of music growing up? Was that really something that takes you back to Cheftsbury Avenue. Yes it was. It was part of dad's you know community, um, you know, the Greek separate community in London. I mean he was a pretty eminent character in amongst the community and the weddings going on all the time. So would be invited drag DeLong actually you know to these weddings.

And but interestingly, my brother who because my father had a marriage, he was married before my mother, um, and I had an elder half brother and he George, you know, played bazooki and so when I went to some of the weddings, it was like George, my brother who was playing there you know, with another group of people, um, not a lot of Greeks. And and he played bazooki as well as violin as well. So that all became you know, part of the what informed my soundtrack, the

soundtrack to my life. Um. But it was broader than that because we lived in the West End and you know, so you know, there'll be like a Spanish you know, um show coming on with a with a dancer called Antonio and I love Spanish music, and and then there was a South African Juan and you know, and then there was the clubs. There was you Beat, which was happening like deep down some of these basement clubs. I mean,

I was just soaking it all up. So yeah, Calypso was before Blue Beat, you know, it was kind of like the the acceptable face of Jamaica. Blue Bit was got a little bit darker. I was gonna say. I mean, I feel like listening to when you revisited Tillerman, so many of the songs that you did, like Longer Boats and and a number of others took on them a much bluesier R and B edge And you can even hear on the version of a Bitter Blue your new

version of Bitter Blue a bit too. Uh. What led you do to revisit those kind of more R and b bluesy sounds. Was it growing up with you know, Alexis Corner and Cyril Davis and John Mayo in London, like all that kind of influence coming through. Well you just mentioned some of the greatest something to be honest, Cyril Davis, Oh my god, you know I bought his record.

It was like it was one of the first records I bought, along with Chuck Berry, bow Did Lee and Little Richard and it was all that kind of R and B. That's what I was interested in, Elvis. That was my sister's you know cadeau of music. It wasn't necessarily he was trying to imitate the real thing, you know, That's why. That's the way I saw it anyway. But it was R and B was just so at the groove. It had a reality. Um and you know it was the beat as well. You know, it was something really

extraordinary about it. I I loved your your your revisiting of Tillerman. I love you new version of Bitter Blue? What led you to choose that song on on this record to to to reimagine? Well, I had heard a group called Green Day and and one of their songs called No the Enemy. I was listening to us said hang on, that sounds a little bit like a bit of blue, And I thought, um, well, but that didn't make me want to go to the solicitor and sort

of start, you know, claiming my rights. I just I said, well, maybe our revisit this one as well. So I did. When we were in the studio, I think doing Laughing Apple. We were in Brussels, and there was a moment where I kind of brought it out, you know. I've been trying this slower version, you know, And but the riff is so good. It stands up whatever tempo you put it, you know. So, and of course it's a little bit darker, but I love that song. It was a great song.

I think it was in the book The Company's the Box Set. I think it was Alan Davis. He said, yeah, whenever, whenever you'd started playing that song, all the roadies we've grown because it meant snap strings and broken strings strings. Yeah, that's so true. That's so true, you know. And as I said, I never really learned how to play guitar. I politely begged to disagree, but I'll take your word for maybe it was when I was when I was on stage, I got a little bit excited. Yeah, probably probably.

I mean the set has so many wonderful moments and demos. I was really fascinated by the day they make me czar about Alexei, the child of Nicholas the second that the czar who was murdered by the Bolsheviks in in Um. This was from a musical you were writing, right. That was also where father and Son from Tilerman came from. Do I have that right, true. Um. I wrote about ten, maybe eleven twelve, I can't remember, um songs for for the musical. And I was deep into, you know, writing

that with with an author called Nigel Hawthorne. He's also he was a comedian, you know, an actor M J. George. Yeah, there we are. And UM, So anyway, we were writing that and I was writing all these songs and following some was one, UM, the day they make me O. I love that little song. I love it. Um. It's kind of got that Russian tilt, which again I'm talking about, you know, my influences. UM, and I think maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Was also another song from from the musical.

Would you ever revisit that? It's such a fascinating I mean, the story just historically is so interesting to me, and all the songs for it are are all the ones I've heard are absolutely gorgeous. Would you ever revisit that kind of thing? Yeah, we're still trying to find a stage that's big enough to hold the Russian Revolution. That's the only problem we're actually having at the moment. But

I would I would love to. Actually, I've been thinking about that, and you know, there were so many projects I'd love to just revisit. For instance, another one called Numbers. It was a whole story which which went with that album and a book to go with it, and so I've got that to do as well. There's quite a few things lined up in the back. Kay wow. I mean you see just in this teaser box set all the different ways that you express yourself, not just through music,

but visually. You know, you mentioned earlier that you initially were a visual artist, and and you know, for those who don't know, you've done I think the majority of your album colors with water or album covers with watercolor. Um. I loved that the cartoon with Spike Milligan's narration is now available for for moon Shadows now on this this box set. How how did that come to me? I just think the visuals, I feel like I need to be given more praise. I just I think they're absolutely stunning.

They are so warm, they are so funny, they are so vibrant. I just I can't get enough of the graphics you created for this. Well, that was that was one of the great opportunities that I had, you know, with with the Highland Records, was to paint my own you know, of us. That was Chris Blackwell who suggested that I do that, and and that's where it began. You know, Monabon Jakin was like, you know, the dust spin, and then there was tea for the tiler Man, and

then there was the moon, you know, the moonside. So we had the sun which was the tiler Man, and he had the moon which was teasing the fire catch at night and day. It was kind of complimentary. Um. And then I don't know how I got onto this, but I started drawing a little story about you know, Teaser and and the fallen Moon, and I completed it, and you know, my manager then got the the book published and then we looked around for someone to to narrate it. And Spike Milligan, I mean, he's one of

my favorites. He's like the Goons. You know, the Beatles love the Goons. You just look at hard days night and you get that um so um. And he did. He came along and did it, and you know, it's it's just it was great how it all happened. However, when it comes to the actual animation, I'm a bit more critical because I don't think that Teaser kept his personality throughout the way, his face started looking like almost like his cousin. You know, it wasn't quite and the

profile wasn't quite right. So because I was an artist, I had to hand this over to the animators and I never quite I was never quite satisfied with the outcome. But um, you know it's still a great piece of art. Oh, it's beautiful. Were you there in the in the studio when he was doing what did you get him to do Blue Bottle or or cron or blood Dog or somebody? Yeah? He did. He did it in one take. You can imagine,

you know, one fake and it's iconic. You know, even to this day, I still mimic it every now and again. I loved him like like the it's the it's the little whispering out do you do? I love that bit where the owls are whispering to each other. I can't wait for more people to hear this. It's gonna be. It's one of the many gems that are that are in this set. And and I also loved hearing some

of the rehearsal takes with Rick Wakeman of Morning Is Broken. Uh, just an incredible, incredible, um modern him not as adapted from him. Uh, can you tell me more about the genesis of that song. I just think it's absolutely astonishing piece of work. Well, it wasn't mine, obviously, that's the first thing. And I was, as I said, I had quite a few songs sort of already half written written, but I needed to have a few more to to

choose from for the for the teaser. And so that came from a visit to a bookshop in religious department, and Um, I picked out a hymn book. I thought, I'm going to get a bit of inspiration from this, because you know, I used to sing him my Catholic school for six years, you know, so I was I was definitely hopefully with that. So I opened the book when I took it home and started working on trying to decipher what the melodies were. Because I couldn't read music very well, I had to do it very very

slowly with one finger. And when I worked out the melody of Morning is Broken, I just said, oh, this is incredible. Um I loved it, and from that moment, you know, it became part of my um from the songs I wanted to record. When we got into the studio, there were there were sort of different. You know, we wanted to look for something slightly different. Every song has its own universe, so in other words, I wanted to do other than just an ordinary acoustic which I've done

on the demo. Rick was around and we invited him in, and then we just gave him this beginning bit and bit of middle there, and another bit there and bit at the end, and he just came in and did this incredibly heavenly part which now resounds today throughout the world, and you know, is associated with me. Of course, it was Rick who was playing that um but I chose

the song. I I found the song. It's just I mean, hearing Morning is broken and juxtaposing it was something like Matthew and Son or here Comes My Baby from just what four years earlier. I mean, those are incredible songs too. But just the growth, the tremendous amount of growth that you went through in such a short amount of time, just a few years, it is really remarkable. It's just something that I don't know, it's not really a question, but it is something I want to recognize that as

something that continues to blow me away. Is that your growth musically and spiritually in such a short period of time. Yeah, things did happen very fast. You know, it's surprising, and you know, for me today to go back and think about it and how many things happened within that short space of time, it's kind of amazing, miraculous. You know, I was there. You're gonna laugh at me for this question, but it's something I'm genuinely curious about. Are you superstitious

at all when you're writing a song? Do you everything? Oh I need to use this is my lucky guitar, or I need to If I don't, I write better in the morning, I write better in the evening. I

write better in this room. Are there any um habits is maybe not quite the right word, but any little sort of superstitions or talismans that you hold onto that you write that that really are kind of you know, dumbbo has his feather and then you have something that, uh, you know, something that you hold to when you're writing.

Not really. I think that the consistent of the the constant in my songwriting is always to look for what hasn't been done yet, hasn't been written and so and so when I pick when I pick up an old guitar, well, I've been here before. I've played this chord so many times. When I get another guitar, that's an opportunity to hear a new vibe. I go, WHOA, see sounds new, you know,

and now I might and it really inspire me. So instant wants themselves carry a kind of an aura and and and a characteristic which can then lend itself to to to helping you to write the song which needs to come out of that instrument. Um. You know when you've got like um, I mean I could. I could write all day long if I didn't have other things to do. You just have to sit down on the yamaha, and you know, you write anything today, You've got all

your fingertips. I mean, it's easy if it's you. I feel like that is clearly something that is a tremendous gift of yours, and that's something that that the rest of us or I won't speak for everybody else, something that I personally struggle with being able to actually uh, you know, I may know all the chords and the notes, but to actually create something from inside of me, I think is far more difficult to do. And it's something that that you do so so gracefully and beautifully um,

in a way that is incredibly inspiring. Thank you. Well, As I said, it's what I have to you know, it's what I do or what I did, what I do and you know, and I think it's um again, it's a gift. I don't you know when you look at a child growing up, you know there'll be certain characteristics to that child that people say, Look like the way he's holding that pencil, isn't it good? You know? And it's already there. It's in the d n A somehow. Um. You were talking about destiny, you know, so I was

just kind of recapping on that on that issue. That's all I mean. Obviously, the you know, the one of the main uh uh hallmarks of this album is uh is peace train? Um. As you've said on numerous occasions, the peace train remains delayed. Uh. Is it frustrating it all for you to sing that song fifty years later now and see that that we still have a bit of a long way to go as a planet before

we reach anything approaching the ideals outline end in that song. Uh? No, I mean that the whole reason I wrote the song is because I'm an optimist and that doesn't change, you know, the fact that the peace trainer isn't here. Yeah, in fact, peace trainer has gotta keep rolling its way towards us, because that's that's the nature of life, you know. It's it's it's when this is no permanent, um, paradise, this

is not permanent, you know. So in other words, that there is a movement towards it, towards something that is that is permanent, but it may not be of this world. And I think that's kind of like what what I mean or what I can interpret it to me, you know, and look at looking back um today, you know, like you can talk about peace, you know, and then you look at certain areas of the world, said, that's where we've got a concert, but actually look over here, there's

like millions of starving people. I'm gonna come on, that's important too. How are you going to get these people who experience peace, you know, when they've got nothing, nothing to eat and nothing to feed their children. So it's a massive question. It's all connected to so many other issues. Uh, pieces a very complex issue. But you know, as as far as a dreamer is concerned, we can't stop dreaming

about it. It's a beautiful quote you had recently. Peace begins in the playground, and I think that's something that's very important to share. I want to ask you more about about that. Yeah, because kids, you know, I mean that they can be cruel. They can be very cruel, and something can be you know, I mean, you know, you know they have to they have to learn. This

is where you learn, you know. The schools, I mean they're basically social you know, um factories for for for you know, human beings to get to how to um, you know, get on in life and how to survive. You know, how do you survive? Teacher who really wants me to and I can't learn this thing, you know, but and this guy wants what I've got in my you know, lunch box. Um, there's so many things going on. It's it's the kernel, you know, of of of how

we grow up, on how we behave later. It's very important to teach, you know, teach kids how to get on at a very early age. You know. There's an unfortunate side effect I think of of school at least of you know, of the you know, conformity factory. Uh. To paraphrase what your said is that it really does sort of unfortunately for a time at least, train the individually individuality out of children, I think, just to be

able to kind of make it through. And a movie that I watched as a kid that really meant a lot to me was in fact Harold and Maud, which I just learned yesterday the soundtrack is being made available for his first wide release, I believe, ever, which is wonderful that that film has meant so much to to so many, including myself, over the years. How did you you first get involved with with how ashby the director? Um?

It was through my manager and he kind of he was given a copy of the book by Colin Higgins Um and they were making a film of it in Paramount, and he gave it to me and said, looking, they're looking for the music for this film, and you know, read this, okay, you know? And I did, and that was the beginning of I loved the book. There's that dark sense of humor, you know. I kind of associated uh with playing tricks, you know, I love doing things like that. So it was great. It's it's such a

beautiful um story. And then I found out that how had already more or less fallen in love with all my music and got my two records, Manobon Jack and Tephen Dinner more or less, you know, sunk in sync with what he was doing on the film, and so I would say, well, that's great. You know. Then I sort of just went with it. Um. I went over and um, you know, I met him, and it was during the filming in San Francisco, you know, with Ruth

Gordon and Bud Court. It was great. It was a great time and a great uh what a movie and what a movie, you know, and what a time to make a movie. He was one of the beginnings of that kind of new wave. I mean, you know, look at Wes Anderson to say, and he wouldn't be who he is without hell out. I was reading the press release for the Herald Mods soundtrack and it included a

description that I really enjoyed. The film represents the potentially glorious benefits that kind of rise from a partnership between the balance conservative pragnantism and colorful, free spirited idealism, and reading that, I thought it could almost be an apt description for you. Do you feel that in any way that you have a Herold and a Mod within you? That are kind of in a in a in a dance that make you um, and that that who you are and inform your your your work and your outlook.

Oh yeah, you don't have to look too far. I mean, my father was from Cyprus, my mother was from Sweden, you know, and I'm the product of that incredible fusion of different cultures, um and and so this balance of calmness, coolness, conservatism and that the heat, Mediterranean, you know, energy, fury, um. All these things kind of take place within my DNA somewhere. So so yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I'm half Sicilian and half Eastern Europeans, so I can I can

relate there. You are. You know, you know what it's like to sit in the snow, and you know what it's like to get burned in the sun exactly. I Mean, the thing that I'm so excited about all these incredible reissue sets that have been coming up the last few years is that it really is reintroducing your music to a whole new generation of fans. Is there a message that you would like somebody first discovering your music to take away from it. I think it's within the the

the ambience of the film, how old Amore. It's to do with you know, not being not being uh predictable, and allowing yourself to go beyond other people's expectations of you, and even beyond your own expectation because you may not even know we are own potential. So I think you know it is reaching out for the stars and and they'n not that far away. You might be one of them. Well, that is an absolutely beautiful note to end on use of. Thank you so much for your time today and most

importantly your music is a huge honor. Thank you so much. We hope you enjoy this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.