The Lumineers' Wesley Shultz

This spring marks ten years since the release of their self titled debut, which features their breakthrough Smash ho Hey,

as well as favorites like Stubborn Love and Submarines. Two more chart topping records were to follow, and now he and his musical partner Jeremiah Frates have released their fourth disc, Bright Side, which is available at this very moment for you're listening pleasure singles like AM Radio, Big Shot and the title track comes steeped in a sentimentality that's been well earned given the tumultuous last two years, which have

been a perspective check for all of us. To be sure, now, the record is also something of a change a pace for the guys, and to talk more about why, I'm joined by Mr Wesley Schultz. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Well, you got a new album on the way bright Side, and the title really hits differently given the last two years we've had. Are these songs the bright side or the silver lining of two years stuck at home for you? Um?

In a way, I think the way I was thinking about it was kind of just trying to um create a rally cry for for for myself, you know, because it was I felt pretty uh steamrolled by everything. I think that most people it was a slow drip though, was like okay, next month, Okay, next week, and then it just kept going on and on and on, And I think, UM, not so much trying to see the bright spots, but almost acknowledging that there there is a lot of, you know, trying times going on. In the

last two years. There's been a lot of things to overcome and and acknowledging those and trying to still have I guess uh an attitude of like you can't you can't stop us from from trying, you know, like the kind one flew of the Cuckoo's Nest where he's like, well, at least I try damn it. At least it feels like that where you're you're not being you know, oblivious to what's going on around you. You're just you're just also trying to still try. You're not submitting. Yeah that's

a great scene or cool hand Luke too. You're just gonna go try for it. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I think it's building on that. Have you learned anything new, either about music or even just about yourself in the last two years, given the really kind of transformative time we've had. Yeah, I mean I learned that I spent a lot of time you you kind of are what you repeatedly do, and you know, we spent a lot of time on the road and got really good at

touring and that life. And then when it was almost like we were riding a bicycle and someone stuck a stick into the spokes and you fly over the handlebars, you know, and it just and and we were grounded for a while. And I think typically in the last ten years plus, there was always something else on the horizon. You know, there's always like if you're touring, then you get off the road, then maybe there's a break, then

you write, then you record, then you tour again. It's like this strange carousel that you kind of fall in love with and you get a little bit adept at And so when everybody said we have to stay at home now, we weren't very I wasn't very good at just like living at home. I didn't know what I was doing, um, And so I think I learned how much I had acclimated to that other life over over the years, you know, and then and then had to relearn I mean, even just sharing duties as a father.

Now I have two kids and just you know, my wife's been sick actually this past week and just waking up with the kids and just not with COVID. Lucky, but she tested every day. It was like every possible symptom was there, and for some reason it wasn't COVID. Um. But yeah, she um she you know, just getting up with both kids and dealing with that chaos and seeing how that works. You know, that's some something you've kind of sheltered from when you're on the road and playing

shows constantly. So um. You know, there's a scene in that Johnny Cash movie where he's Joaquin Phoenix Johnny Cash, where he's I think he's like home for the holidays, or something, and he's just kind of a zombie and that can be a little bit of what you are and you're more at home in this strange environment on the road. And I think that that taught me a lot about a what my wife is dealing with on

a constant basis. And also just like being a dad was a beautiful thing that I probably would have missed a lot of that time had I not been had I been out on the road. You know, I just there's not enough hours in the day. So um again, it's not so much like, oh this is good, right, it's just more this, this is a beautiful thing that came out of this just my son, you know, from the ages of one and a half to now almost four, being a lot more around him been amazing. I mean,

that's gotta be a really special bright side. I mean, does that has that impacted your relationship to music in any way? I mean, you hear I mean I'm not apparent myself, but you hear everybody say that. You know, your whole life changes, and the things that you know used to matter don't, and priorities shift and just things just your whole world changes. How is that has that shown up musically on on this new album. I know your daughter was born. I think last year. Um, how's

that been? Now it's last year? Yeah, it's wild. Um it's the new year. Yeah. I think I've heard that a lot of people say when you become a parent, you know you you sort of like take an l every day. You know you you truly humbled. You know here, you make a you make this, uh, let's say, make a pasta dinner and your kids like I don't want this, you know, before cheerios and you're like I would have just gotten your cheerios. What. Um. And it's not as simple as making them do what you want them to

do all the time. Um. I think it's made me really humble. I think also it's um, you know it sounds really basic or obvious, but I never really understood the passage of I never appreciated the passage of time in this sort of like I mentioned earlier, the carousel that exists when you're writing and touring, and that always kind of cycle repeats, cycle repeats. Time story feels like it stands still. It's almost like living in l A. You know, I could never live there because there's no seasons.

It's like it would drive me crazy. And there's no seasons sometimes this because you're always You're always on in the next and I seeing my son just sprout up and grow and I was like, oh, it created a sense of urgency within me to try to say, well, you know, I only have time is flying by. But I was always like, oh, I have all this time.

I have all this time, so in and not to be morbid, but in a funny way, I lost my dad in two thousand and seven, and that you know, he died young, and I realized, like, I have I don't know how much time I'll have, so I really need to like make the most of this because there's a level of urgency here, like I could go like he went, he's my dad, you don't know so um So anyway, that that sort of idea of time being really exemplified in your kids and just physically looking at

them and saying like, my daughter is getting all these teeth now all of a sudden, you know, I went from zero to five teeth. You know, it seemed like overnight. So that that type of stuff, I think creates a fire within you to say I want to really do something special while I'm here with this music and enjoy it also, I mean enjoying making bright Side was was

kind of a strangely new experience. A lot of what we did in the past with making records was more of it felt like, you know, a toil and like pulling teeth in a way where you're kind of just you're you're trying so hard that you're trying to control too much. And this was more you know, stream of consciousness or curiosity or like childlike wonderment going into it, which gave it a brand new feel. For being our

fourth album. You know, it doesn't sound or feel like the other ones because we didn't really plan much out. It was just kind of flowing out. Yeah, there's a spontaneity there, I think, I I it's apparent on so many of the tracks. I think I read on the title track it came together in a day, which I mean, to me just sounds so fast. I mean, how did

what led? Do you approaching it differently? Was it just almost more of because I mean, your last album three came about I think you were in the middle of touring it when the pandemic hit. So was this did you intend to set out to write a new album or was it kind of like, well, we've got this time, let's let's start creating music and see what happens. And it was a little more free form than usual. Yeah,

I think, uh so. I I started out the pandemic. Um, we didn't really I didn't really get to spend any time with Jare, who I read all the songs with. Um. Jared and I grew up together, been playing music and writing together for sixteen years, and um, you know, there's a lot of fear, you know. Uh So we didn't really see each other for a while, so we're just sitting there. He eventually makes a solo record, and so do I. Mine is his is like almost classical. Style

of mine is all cover songs. And when I did mine, it was I was out in the cat Skills and I was just I was writing a motorcycle to and from the studio and just showing up and we'd record and then I'd leave and we'd have two songs that seemed like finished every day. And I had no faith in myself until that. Until doing that that, I really could, you know, leave it to chance in a way, or

leave it to the last minute. It was always like, oh, I've had so many experiences where there's like a recency bias where you you make something you think it's great, Uh, you know, today's what Tuesday, and on Wednesday you hate it so our Thursday. So there was this sort of suspicion of my own thoughts, you know, with that, and this was letting that go and just being free and

so going into right side. It was almost like making that solo record that was sort of just a a labor of love, like, hey, I love I love so many of these artists in these songs. Let's do that, uh, because I don't know if I have it in me to just write a whole new luminous record with Chair

and we can't really even get together at this point too. Now, we we got together, and when we were there, I kept thinking like, well, let's not overly planned this, because that was really fun when I just experienced and then uh, Jared went right along with that, and I think we were both really impressed with how fast the time went in the studio and how much we still are in love with the music we made then and we don't have to be quite so you know, suspicious of It's

like almost like we were like it's guilty until proven, and it's in terms of like ideas, we were like, this is god to be bad. There's no way this is good, whereas this one was more like can you believe it? Can you believe it? Like That's how bright Side was done in the day, because we didn't spend that much time. You know, the song bright Side that is was done in a day. We didn't spend that much time over analyzing. It was just like do you love it? I love it? Boom, let's go, let's keep going.

And that's a new thing for us. You know. I kind of wish we would have done it like that all along, but I don't think we were exactly ready for that. I mean, you mentioned you're so vignette, and it's cover songs of what I imagine we really formative influence for you, Bruce Springsteen, Jim Crochy, Warren Yvon, Tom waits Uh in addition to just being able to to tackle these songs so quickly. Did having those those early influences in your mind? Did that take you back to

a certain place? I mean, I guess the fact that you record a day m radio the video for it at your high school. I feel like, there's a lot of looking back on this record, and I was wondering if I feel like so many people I know myself included during the pandemic, have been listening to songs from when we were younger as kind of like musical comfort food. I was wondering if the actual compositions, uh, you know, bear those marks of early influences from when you were

first falling in love with music. Yeah, you never, I've never really thought about that way, but yeah, I think I think that's a lot of where we go, you know, to feel something. You know, you're kind of numb. I was, so you get so numb throughout this whole uh last now almost two years. Um a way to tap back into yourself as to say where I come from? You know where I come from musically, where I Where are these all these beautiful memories that were attached to this

music before the world seemed to stop, you know. Um. So I think part of it was that, and then part of it was trying to you know, I had a friend he went to Berkeley. He used to be in our band and then he went to Berkeley and he's he's a really avant garde kind of jazz music kind of guy. And his name is Joe. And Joe said, you know, I love what you guys are doing, and we were kind of like downplaying it. Hey, you know,

it's not what you do. And he's like, if you love playing a G chord, or just play a G chord, like, stop stop trying to impress some other music person in the room and make music for you, and and and and that that leve will emanate and that will like kind of radio out. And and this album is very much I think like that where there's not an ego in it. It's just some these these songs that were following, you know, we loved making and then going back to the high school, it was like part of it is

realizing your attitude back then was a beautiful one. A lot of times, you know, it was like you you felt indestructible, and I think just trying to find that again within us, because you feel all of us feel so vulnerable and fragile and like everything can be stripped away in a moment. Because of how this played out, I think psychologically maybe that was why I wanted to go there as a like from the lyrical standpoint and from the feeling was just I like that feeling invincible

and invincibility. I like going on that first drive with your friend who just got his license or maybe he doesn't have his license and you're in a car and you're just driving and you're lighting a cigarette, you're breaking a bottle behind a convenience store, and you're you just kind of like you feel like the world is yours, as opposed to right now, you're you don't even belong in this world, you know. It's kind of so maybe

it was that too. It wasn't so much conscious as it was that feels good to think about those things that feels good to And it wasn't even like I want to be that age again, and I just I want that attitude. I want that feeling again, that you know, feeling of being fifteen or something and if someone plays you some song you had never heard and it changes your life, you know, which is like a m radio. Where we shot the video at our old high school,

which it would have been my union this year. I've never set foot in it in twenty years, so it was really strange to go back and be like, this is my first time back, and some of my fellow classmates, a couple of from like teachers now and um, it's just wild, you know, going back and um, but the passage of time and like realizing, oh, you know, some of us kept that innocence and that curiosity. It's like

what we loved about what we continue to love. I think as fans, if you're a fan of Neil Young, is that he just always seems like in wonderment of what he's doing, he's like gets lost in it. It's not it's not um scientific, it's not clinical. It's it's just like a guy who loves what he does and almost approaches it like a kid would. Oh totally. I was. I was waxing poetic with a friend recently about his solos, and this is going to come out as an insult,

and I mean it as the highest compliment. I love the fact that he so many of his solos it's like he can't play them, but he plays them anyway. It's just sheer force of will, him just hitting that gretch or whatever it is. And I love that. And you mentioned earlier about being you know, fifteen years old, and that that sense of confidence, for lack of a better term, I mean, I feel like in those days, we don't have that judgment voice in our head when

we're trying to create. You're just doing it and the fact that you're making anything is so exciting. And then later on you think, oh that sucks. And the older you get, the more you think, I've done this, this is bad, this will never work there. And how do you balance, um, keeping that sense of youthful freedom while also being somebody with you know, a season's musician with twenty years of touring under your belt, Like, how do

you balance those those those two sides of you. Yeah, I mean I think, Um, part of it is you're constantly I mean I just watched the Beatles documentary, you know,

all nine hours of it. It was it was great. Um. But one of the things I noticed, and I don't know if this is what they were doing, but to me, it's what they were doing, is they were constantly playing other people's songs, kind of goofing around, And it was in my head it was their way of forgetting what they were there to do, you know, putting them hypnotizing

themselves so that the real stuff could come out. Because if you just sit there and you just you know, hack away at the same thing over and over and sort of beat a dead horse. You don't get you were And so part of trying to silence the inner critic is to just forget that you're there to make something that will later be judged. You know, you're just you're just playing stuff and you're poking around in the dark, and something happens, like, you know, get back, where what

is this? And uh, it's but I feel like that's that's a lot of you know, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, Uh, it's so special. And Paul knew it. And that's the other thing is you can have something really special and he shows it to John and John's like, all right, there's nothing like you've done it, you know, which I think is what a lot of people assume. It's like there's an instinct in the room with someone, someone's someone's leading some sort

of charge about it and and magic happens. So I think part of it is just forgetting to be innocent, is to forget what you're there to do, and you're just playing around. You know. It's just like you know, that's how the song bright Side began. Jared was warming up you know, and like the drum beat for that was him was warming up and kind of imitating what I was playing on guitar and then taking it in

his own direction. And then once he did that, now my guitar parts not there anymore because he's playing the thing I was doing. So now I have to do something. And it's almost like improvisation versus you know, Okay, you did that, so then I'm gonna do It's not so you know, planned out scientific, which I think is a big part of that feeling of innocence, is just and then also just actually not there's nowhere else to go. You've left yourself. The only way to go is to

do it in that room. Instead of well we have a good song, but let's try to beat it. It's like, no, we didn't really have a song yet. We just had a shitty voice memo that we're going to build off of. So part of it, I think is setting yourself up to have that. But I wish I had, Like I said earlier, I wish I had approached every album this way. But then again, I'm like, it's money, you can't really

plan that much about it. I don't know if that was our personality or a confidence level before, because what we're talking about a lot of it is just just like almost bravado, but like a naive bravado, like you know, like I remember Simon, our producer, he kept like putting his middle fingers in the air like like all the time, and everybody started doing that. It was just like this attitude that you feel when you're of a certain mindset, a certain age, that you try to just live within

that while you're doing it, but easier. I don't know how Nil Young has maintained that and and you know, it's it's incredible, or even you know Tom Petty when he was alive, or Bruce Springsteen. Um, there's a lot of people that I grew up listening to that have maintained into their later years in some beautiful, beautiful way. And you just try to like sponge it off of them of like how do they do that? You know,

try to feel their vibe. I had read that in the UH in the studio when you start sessions for a new album, you have a kind of a mood board with with pictures and quotes, and this time around, I don't know if it's true. I read that you had a picture of Liam and Noel Gallagher on stage and like, you know net net Worth or something in nineties six? What what was that? I mean, I guess hearing what you just said about, you know, middle fingers

in the air, raw power and naive. Hey, I guess that kind of was that kind of what you're going for with the uh the Nolan Liam picture? Yeah, like I was Simon's idea, Simon Police of the Police Brothers, you know. It kind of a band I fell in

love with two thousand and seven. We went and saw them the next year in a little church that was became a bar like a It was a beautiful scene and they became they were a really big influence, not only because we love their music, but just the way that they unapologetically recorded, you know, and it's it's like, is that a demo? Is that finished? Uh? It was so rough around the edges, but it was so compeeding, and I was like, well, why am I questioning this?

You know, it's like you watch old movies that came out today, people say how they're trying to go for that vintage. Look, It's just like it's what they had and that's how they made movies. It's not trying to be anything, but um yeah, I think that the net Worth. Uh, if you haven't seen the documentary of people listeners haven't ever seen it. There's a beautiful documentary about Oasis. Um and they the movie ends with them going to this

playing the show and it's huge at net Worth. And basically, I think Simon thought to himself, you know, I think these guys are always kind of like me and Jarre, are constantly trying to shed ego when it comes to a song, when it comes to performance, you know, you

try to serve the song. And He's like, as much as I love that, you guys got to accept that just like those guys are Oasis, like you guys the Lumine Ears, and you guys started this in your mom's you know, little attic and then you continued it on and went to Denver and now you're here and you need to kind of embrace that instead of you know, pawning it off. I mean, like, well no, because it is,

because it is. It's like, you know, have to have some of that swagger and pride in what you do with each other and own that a little more and and that and that's what you know, I think that's what he And then he also put the word free up on the wall and and that was all in his head. And then I was like, can I have

one more? I wrote the word anthem because I thought there was like a lot of there's a synthemic quality to a lot of what we had already started to trying to work on, um and that an anthem can be slow, it can be it could be like nothing that radio would ever play, and it will still be

an anthem. It's like, that's the funny thing about you know, music is that it doesn't it finds a way, like good songs find a way, you know, listening to like seven Nation Army, you have soccer stadiums around the world chanting that. It's like crazy. You know. That's not a guy who set out to do that. But his music became an anthem for it was a feeling. So I think Simon had he just he did. He does such a good job as a producer um that his instincts were right on. They were like right in line what

we needed to hear. And you have record I think this is your I think your third album. If your corded up in the in the Hudson Valley. What is it about that area? I mean, I've been there myself. I love it. There's definitely an energy and the history obviously with you know the band and Bob Dylan and Van Morrison and Todd Rendgren and and all those incredible people. What is it about that that that reason for you that really really speaks to you. Yeah, we have even

in the studio we're working out of there. Just down the hill is where Jimmie Hendricks spot was, and then just near Simon where he lives, which is like ten miles away, is down the road is where Van Morrison and Moon dance. So there's all this like history around, but it's not just Um, I think the allure is that you're in a different space, headspace when you're out there, and that you, um, you don't know quite why. You know it's a special area. You don't really know it's

a historic area. There were those Catskill Mountains were mystical to people. People would come up the Hudson and look over and see them and freak out, and then they'd go out there and check it out. And there's something like I would say, there's a mysticism there. Rip Bandwinkle.

You know, all these things are from that area. Um So I think when we go out there, there's a there, there's an ability to tap into something that you don't really get if you're in I remember recording in l A and you step out of the studio it's actually sound city and you step out and it's it's a parking lot and the nearest place to eat is a car dealership that has a great tun of salad sandwich. It's like the weirdest uh, It's not to me, It's

not what I need when I'm taking a break. And when I want to look out, I don't want to look at it concrete and pavement and highways. I want to see there's something more serene that calms me down because there's there's a lot of emotion making a record, and there's a lot of roller coaster I guess you could say, like any sort of writer, you know, I think, like the Shining, you kind of go nuts and you need you kind of you need something to chill you out.

And so for me, that's that's a big part of it. And then just knowing those mountains, there's something about them that that they're older and Wiser. We've talked to something about this. You know, I live in Denver and we have the Rockies and those are what one of the world's youngest mountain ranges. So they're real, they're real, like sharp and almost a gro and then these these Catskill

Mountains are smooth and like almost rolling. They're tall, but there they've been worn down over time and they know things. It's it's weird, it's like there's a wisdom in them. And and these are more like they represent in Denver, like the West, you know, people coming out here and adventure and manifest destiny. Yeah, yeah, it's wild. So um, there's a lot to it. But it's almost like you can't really you've been out there so you kind of know.

It's like you can't really necessarily explain it. It's just a feeling kind of like the kind of like the record. Honestly, there's a lot of our records we've made are so literal, especially the last one and even Cleopatra Um. The stories are like rooted in almost like folk music in the sense that there's a story, and these are way more

like rock songs where they're on bright side. Whether it's like you put the story aside, and you're just trying to wash a feeling over the audience, you know, try to cast a spell of like this is where, this is what I feel if you feel this. I'm so glad you mentioned stories because I was going to ask you. I mean, so many stories are just so potent in your music. I mean, you know, almost as potent as

the melodies in some places. And something I really lovel about the lyrics on on this record is it seems less linear and almost more impressionistic, like you know, Never Really Mind is one of my favorites because it's it's so raw. And then I think I read somewhere you were saying you wanted to evoke a couple fighting so loud that neighbors were you know, called the cops on them or something, and I and I heard that, and I was like, oh, I totally picked up on on

that feeling. I never would have thought to articulate it like that, but that's exactly what it felt like to me. I mean that that was I really I sensed the difference in the lyrics, and I thought it was really really potent, and I that those feelings definitely came through in a way that you know, wasn't linear but still just as evocative. Yeah, and I think we brought Milion earlier. He does it better than anyone, and Kurt o'bain did

it amazingly well. And people go through their phases. Bob Dylan seems to like drift in and out of that and then telling stories. It's it's interesting, but um, yeah, Like I think that this record gave me such an appreciation for working in a partnership with Jare Jeremiah about like collaboration is a beautiful thing and it's no longer You're no longer on an island. You have a partner in crime. Um. So like with never really Mine, if you could hear what he sent me, would you'd laugh

because where it ended up is so different. But I would have never said those words to begin with. And that's where collaboration or we laid that song down and then he added, he's almost like I pictured like Dave grow when he was fifteen playing those drums. You know, it's like it's just very teenage jare playing drums to it, but a lot of them. I mean, Um, there's a song Birthday that he sent me and he sounded really desperate he sounded like really uh, like he was losing

his mind, and I think he kind of was. He was. He just moved Italy and he's living with his in laws for months and it was just a hard time. It's the pandemic um. They have a newborn and or a toddler rather, so he sent me this is his voice memo and he sounds like he's like slowly losing his mind. But it made me like I would have never wrote it's all right, it's a right, it's the right, it's your birthday, Like why would you say it's all right?

You know, like he's But the way he sung it was so perfect and so like again the collaboration, I think on this record there is more innocence, and I think Jared the way he writes lyrics is so rooted in more of a feeling that I learned a lot just and I would adopt a lot of what he said uncertain songs that I would have never done on

my own. And again, that's a way that you can evolve, Just like there are way more drums on this album than there were on any of the other albums we've made, because Jared was always serving the song and because we were almost it reminds me a little white stripes where he was like all I needed just kind of back spat,

you know, that was the blues. That was the blues to him, and he was doing that, and for us it was like somehow rooted in a similar feeling of like it doesn't need more than that, don't do more. And then this time around he kind of let it rip a little bit more like like he was just messing around with the song and so you hear him do what he's always been able to do. But we kept calling him Jersey ringo hen have all these like clever little beats um. But yeah, it was it's it

was just it was. It was a process that I think, uh, the result is because of the you don't really you know, you don't really get there unless there's some authentic feeling behind it to cast that feeling. So I think we really became like we we transported back in time in our minds and like, oh, how let's let's act as if act as if we're we're doing the best thing ever. That's and that's oasis. You know, they were like we're

the greatest in the world. And then you and then later on they'll say, well, the Beatles, we've always just been copying to beat us, but we're still the best band. And you know, they had this humility because they knew who like the best was, but they also wanted to be great and they wanted to do something powerful and they did a really that that documentary and we talked about just a few minutes ago. It was like it

totally changed my perspective on the band. Um, And I think I think a lot of people have ideas of who we are, and that's what's fun for any band is to just maybe go in a new direction and hopefully people come with you. But it's never a bad sign if people go I like the other stuff better, because that means you're changing and evolving, and it's like natural, they're gonna you're gonna lose some people, you're gonna gaine

some people. It's just how it worked. But if you kind of stay the same, it's not It's like those actors who always do like a rom com. That's what Matthew McConaughey broke out of. You know, he went into that more text and then somehow crawled out of it. And I think, um, when you when you feel like you have a mastery or like a command over something, you you just do it. There's not much risk in that, and the people sense that, and then it just becomes

like boring to the artist and to the listener. So for us that was also a beautiful part of it was just like not quite sure what we're doing most of the time, but but having a higher level of skill than we had ten years ago. So maybe that not when we're doing actually is listenable, you know, instead

of just like what we're rethinking. Well, it's something I always love to ask people who are sort of blessed with the ability to write music, which which I myself I'm not, And it's been great because I always get such an incredible variety of answers. I'm always curious what compels people to write. Is it a desire to connect with other people and you know, reach out and connect with people, or is it just to get something out of you and you would write just as much of

you are on a desert island somewhere. It's all about the exorcism. Just do one motivate you more than the others? Is it? Is it more of a desire to connect or is it more of a desire just to express and the other person on the other end of it almost doesn't factor into it. Yeah. Well I grew up my dad was a psychologist and I was gonna be one. I was. I was like, you should name it Schultz and Sun because I'm gonna be like, I'll work under you and then I'll take it over. You know. I

was so interested in people. I found them really fascinating. Um, on an individual level, you know what makes people do the most seemingly contradictory things That they're not caricatures like you think, they're not automatons that you can predict where what they're gonna behave Like, Um, there's like so there's a genuine interest in people, and then there's also this like idea that it's strange, but like expressing loneliness and

hearing other people expressed loneliness makes me feel connected in some strange ways. So, like the human condition I think is one that you you're you're always battling that feeling of being alone and you don't really know how to shake that. But sometimes when someone says I feel alone, you feel less alone. It's a strange thing that happens

um and So. I think part of it is trying to feel alive through expressing not only pain but sometimes hope in the face of that um and and and it's probably more of a selfish thing to your question, I don't think it's so much like I wanted to connect with a bunch of people. I wasn't like lonely and needed to connect that way. I was just fascinated by the idea that you could express your own path, your own thoughts, and your own experiences and somehow that

translates to someone else. That's still a great mystery to me. But I love that about music, and I love that about other people's songs. You know, I listened to before I go on stage when we're playing often like bigger places, I will always put on something that makes me start to cry, like before the show, because I'm like, if I go out there and I'm like, just hey, guys, what's up, Like, that's not where I need to be.

I need to actually have raw emotion like on me and then just give that or otherwise it's gonna feel like a Vegas like. So, so I'll listen to these certain songs, and that's an example of like those songs what they do to me, that was the fascination, like how do I, how do I? How can I do that? Because that, to me that made me feel less alone in some strange way, and like can I can I do that? You know indirectly for other people and also

for myself? And that's the black magic of music. That's like the strangest mystical part of it is that if you tried to explain this to an alien, they would never understand your It's like Terminator when he's like, why are your eyes you know wet or you know leaking or whatever he asked, It's like we are moved to tear, We moved to laughter and moved to hug total strangers

through music. That's incredible. Um. So there was that there was wanted to be a part of that I think was the biggest uh appeal to music was just like this is like crazy, how do I be a part of this? Um? And and it's paid Like to me, it's paid me back tenfold. You know. It's like but it is funny because if you if you make something that you think is cool um for someone else, it never works. It's always like something that you didn't want to share or you didn't want to go there. That

often gets that gets through to people. Um, so you're almost like this weird sacrificial lamb to your to your audience, like you're gonna, you know, talk about your scars and your wounds and your feelings so that they can feel all right. It's like a strange, strange things. But it's like it's a noble I think it's a noble act. Oh. Absolutely, I mean, that's an incredibly beautiful wy to put It makes me think of the video for for bright Side, which I mean for anyone who hasn't seen it brings

some tissues. First of all, uh, it is really really beautiful. It opens with um, a whole assortment of people being asked what is love to you? And you know there's everybody from teenage hitchhikers to middle aged nudists to a elderly widower and who I mean some of the responses are are pretty gutting, but but absolutely beautiful. And I mean, I think it speaks to your point earlier about you know, being interested in people, and I think watching that as the setup to your song puts the song in a

totally different light. It kind of prepares you emotionally to receive the message of that song to me, at least as a as a fan and someone who listened to it and enjoyed it very much. And that was the director. Kyle Thrash did a beautiful job with that music video for bright Side. And you know, he kind of makes these almost like documentary style music videos, so all those people weren't actors. They were just kind of like being

asked about themselves. And there's a scene where people are riding around on these quads and like a swamp and that's just what they were doing, and he's like, can I film some of this? You know? So the whole thing is just a peek into other people's lives and how love, you know, breaks people's hearts and connects people

and everything in between. Um, he did like such a beautiful job with that with that video, and I think it again, like I think it was a good approach two the song because the song is much more about a feeling than like, hey, what happened in this story? You know, Hey, I hear this guy's doing mushrooms in

a hotel, Like what happened? Like there's nothing, it's just more these these people are on like almost you know, a weird road trip together trying to get away from something, and that was what my whole like twenties was spent doing. So it was like it was a look back on that, but it was also like a feeling, and and I thought the people tell it better than trying to be so on and knows about it. You know, you just kind of talk around it and try to illustrate through

other people's experiences. Well, I guess it's only fair. I gotta ask you, what is what is love? To you? M man? That's such an unfair question. I'm sorry. Uh, well, I think love the best way I can put it is that love is like that if you love someone, it's impossible to understand your life, as like the whole whole life turns on a U and an access and and all of a sudden you can't even remember what it was like before you didn't know them, and you

can't remember what life was like without them. Um that to me because it's with my wife's with my kids, that's the I can understand it. It's like it's so uh, it puts your tilt, it tilts your access, and then you're never back in a good way and it must be a boy. But um, yeah, I don't know if that even like answers the question. But that's the best way I can understand it because I'm always like I can't even remember what I was like before I met here.

I can't remember what life felt like, you know, and now it's like now we have kids, and I don't know if you have kids, but that does that does it to you too, where you're just like, oh wow, I would like literally run through a wall or run through in a burning house for you. And I never felt that towards anything besides my wife before, and now it's your kids more even more innocent. So that was a beautiful, articulate response to a really unfair question that

I sprung on you. So I thank you for that. Well, it's from our video, so I should have thought about it. Well. My my last question, speaking of connecting to people, what is next for you guys? I know, obviously it's tough to say given everything that's going on with with COVID, but you plans to hit the road again in the in the relatively near future. Yeah, we say, COVID willing will be on the road. Um for the next year and a half, two years, you know, and if if,

if things get rescheduled, they get rescheduled. But we're just proceeding like we'll we'll take what we can get, you know. It's like we just want to be back out there, and so, um, we'll be starting in early early January and then onward. And I think I think the way things are moving there is a there's a cautious optimism about being out there and it feeling once again safe hopefully. Um, but we've been sitting around long enough. I think we're

ready to get out there. And we we got to play a few shows last year at the end of the year and that was like, you know, so uplifting. So I truly can't wait, and it's worth it, even if we have to be in a bubble half the time to just be able to go do this. We forgot how fun it was in a way because we were touring so much that you kind of burn yourself out. And so it's good to be back feeling like desiring that nothing but that you like, I really want to

do this, you know. It really feeds us. So um, we're excited and like I said, a lot of this is up to other forces outside of ourselves, you know. So we're just we're just kind of like proceeding. Is it cautiously optimistic? The motto of two so far? But I hope to get you out there soon. Oh Man, Leslie, thank you so much free music and your time today. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you.

Appreciate it, Man, appreciate it. Thanks so much. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Yeah is t