Steven Van Zandt

His departure from the group in just before the astronomical success of the Born in the Usa album sent them stratospheric struck many his career suicide. But that's when the adventure really began. He experienced a political awakening and set his sights on dismantling apartheid. To say, he took a hands on role, as putting it mildly, he risked his life meeting with activists on their home turf illegally sneaking into a South African township hidden under a blanket in

the backseat of a car. He organized a mind boggling coalition of musicians under the name him Artists United Against Apartheid, and the resulting single Sun City was a crucial step towards ending the humanitarian atrocities in South Africa and freeing Nelson Mandela. When he wasn't fighting global injustice, he was busy recording a string of critically acclaimed albums with and without his new group, the eminently Funky Disciples of Soul. He broke in the acting on a little cable series

known as The Sopranos. That same year, he rejoined the E Street Band, but his solo workload remained constant. In two thousand two, he began hosting his radio show Little Steven's Underground Garage and started his own label, We Could Cool Records. Both are dedicated to the preservation of rock and roll, both new and old. He also starred in and co wrote the first original Netflix series, Lily Hammer, and started the aptly names nonprofit, a rock and Roll

Forever Foundation. Frankly, he has far too many activities to sum up here, and now we can add author to his lengthy CV. He recently was just fantastic memoir unrequited infatuations. He's a man of many faces. There's Miami, Steve, Little Stevie, Suvio Dante, and Frank the Fixer just to name a few, and we're thrilled to have all of them here today. I'm so happy to welcome Mr Steven van zand I hope you enjoy our chat. I absolutely adored your book.

I mean, one of the things that I loved about it so much was that I could hear your voice in my head. It sounded like you. It was like I could imagine the audio book playing as I was reading it. It definitely had you all over it, which is amazing. Well, yeah, that was the idea, you know. In fact, that's how I wrote it. I wrote it

with the audio in mind, you know. I mean, I did do the audiobook also, but uh, I thought, you know, let me write it the way I speak and uh and I explained to the editor and uh and the publisher. I said, you know, this is not gonna look right. It's not gonna be grammatically correct, but but if you read it the way I'm gonna write it, you're gonna hear my voice. So ye, that worked out. That worked out good, so awesome. And the book comes after a

really productive last few years. I made your solo your solo record, so fire, you reform the Disciples of Soul, and you have the Summer sorcery? Did doing those records reconnect you to a certain party yourself? Like, what made you decide to tackle this book? Now? Yeah, yeah, that was that was a big part of it. Um. I And like most of my life, I didn't plan it. I didn't you know, I didn't. Uh. I didn't expect to get back into the music business at all. Uh.

It's happened by just by pure circumstance. Uh Uh. At the end of the Eastreet tour in two thousand sixteen, uh this Uh, British promoter just said, you know when you're coming back to London and uh, I said, well, me and Maureen, you know, we we come back for her birthday every year, but this year we're gonna come back a little earlier for for Bill Wyman's eightieth birthday party. He invited us to his party and he said, well, that's the same week as my as My Blues festival.

Why don't you throw a band together and headline one of the nights. I mean, this is how my this is how my crazy, my life is. You know. I was like, headline one of the nights. I said, I haven't fronted a band in thirty years. You know. And he says, come on, it's like riding a bicycle. I said, yeah, it's a it's a big bicycle. But anyway, but I

don't know. The more I thought about it, it sounds like fun, you know, I thought, well, you know, I'll bring back the horns, you know, uh, like I like I did used on my first, very first solo album, and um, and uh, it'll be fun and I'll get a chance to play some Paul Butterfield stuff, you know, with the horns that nobody ever hears. Uh, electric flag stuff that nobody ever hears, you know, nobody's you know, and uh, you know, and those two of my own.

And so we started rehearsing some of my old songs, which I haven't literally thought about for thirty forty years. I was like, damn, you know, these things are pretty good, you know that kind of interesting, you know they I mean, the one thing about not being fashionable, you know, ever, is that you end up being timeless, you know. And uh, and I thought, you know, these things are they're kind

of like their own genre. You know, this this rock meat soul thing you know that I created with south Side Johnny, Um, it kinda it holds up in some weird way because it was never it was never you know, it was never trendy, you know, so so it kind of has its own space. And I thought, Man, a lot of these songs, and even the subject matter, unfortunately, was still relevant, you know, thirty forty years later, you know,

which is a shame uh in some cases. But Uh, I was just like Man, and so I I reconnected to my life's work and uh. And I didn't realize really that I kind of abandoned it for literally three decades. Uh, but I was It was really very very very helpful to do that. And uh and then um, one thing led to another and another and another, and the same band hung in there with me, terrific band, Mark Riblet put together for me, and suddenly a whole new album,

you know, the Soul the Soulfire record was just for fun. Uh, songs I've written for other people, you know. I we hadn't had nothing. I had nothing to do. Um. You know, I was gonna do a TV show and then I fell through at the last minute, and then Bruce were thinking about touring, but then Bruce decieted to do Broadway, you know, and uh, suddenly uh, you know, and nothing to do. So I said, well, you know, maybe I make a record of of well the blues gig went

was so good and so much fun. But I thought, damn, you know, we should we should, you know, keep this together somehow a little bit. And and I'm able to do it to a record of songs I've written for the people and that and that was so fire. And then somebody said I want to see this live, and they paid for a tour, and one thing led to another, and before you know what, uh, new new songs started coming to me. Added a blue and uh it was

really a gift, man. Summer Sorcery was just a gift from the gods were literally and I was like, wow, man, you know uh and and and it ended up putting out not only those two records, but but a total of six album packages in three years. You know, we

remastered the whole catalog. We put out the Lily Hammer score. Um, you know when the live to live albums, you know, from the tours, because my life, my live show is really um, it's really a show, you know, I mean, it's it's it's a it's not a random bunch of songs, you know, it's a very thematic show, and so the live records are valid uh artistically themselves. So we ended up doing six album packages and I was like so

uh and and touring the world, you know twice. So it was kind of good timing to have a quarantine. You know. I just went on the road for a long time and I reconnected to my work and I felt a little closure, you know, I felt a little bit of you know what, you know, if some resourceries my last where ever, you know, I'm okay with that, you know. And so I felt like I had a beginning, middle, and an end of the book. And um, you know,

so use that quarantine to to to write it. Did you learn anything about yourself right in this book when you saw it all down on paper, to change your perspective on any part of your life? You know, it really did, because I more or less for forty years now, I've been kind of beating myself up a little bit, um thinking you know, um, uh, maybe maybe I could have done what I did after I left the band. Um, if I you know, if I'd been able to stay in the band, maybe I could have done both things.

You know. Uh, you know, I never really really analyzed it. I never you know, I don't think about it too much. I really don't look look back too often. But in the back of my mind I always felt cheese I I wish I could have done both things. But when I went back and really lived it, and really transported myself back and and really lived those days, I realized, there's there's no way. People. I don't know how you did it without the band. It was really you know,

and uh. And I realized that I think the one of one of the reasons for writing the book, because I wanted the book to be useful mostly, you know, I mean and uh and and uh and and I told I told the editor Ben Greenman, who was a terrific editor. I said, listen, just keep me honest here. I want to. I want to I want to balance three things. You know. Yes, we have to do the narrative, obviously,

but that's the least interesting part to me. I want to make sure we have the history in there, because all I missed was the first decade of rock and roll. The rest I kind of observed first person, you know, So I want to get the history in there for the younger generations that may not know how this stuff

went down. It might be interested in that. And and and the third track is is the craft you know, all the crafts that I've been involved with, um, you know, I mean, and you never stopped learning, of course, But but I thought, you know, maybe I could, you know, give a couple of observations that might be helpful. So I wanted to be useful that way. And and and what happens is as I'm as I'm writing it, I realized, you know, it's really kind of like two books. You know.

The first half of the book, Local Kid from Jersey makes it to the top of rock and roll, you know, you know, and that's a terrific story by itself, that really really is. But the second half kind of gets more interesting. And I think the themes start to broaden when I leave the band. And I wasn't changing jobs at that point. I was ending my life, you know, That's how it felt. And uh, look literally staring off at the edge of the cliff, you know, Uh, nowhere to go, no no thoughts as to what I was

gonna do. And in spite of that, uh, everything I've accomplished in my life happened after that. You know, when I thought my life was over, and I thought this could be helpful with somebody, I think, you know, because I think everybody gets disappointed in in in their lives and and uh and maybe they think it's over and you know, there's no plan B and you've got nowhere

to go. But if you can find a way to move forward somehow, just keep moving forward, uh, and and not succumb to the you know, to to giving up and to to you know, doing drugs or drinking or committing suicide or and I considered all of those things, you know, if you could find a way to just um, just avoid those those pitfalls and and kind of keep moving forward. Destiny has a way of surprising you. And uh.

And I think I'm a really good example of that, you know, because I mean everything I've accomplished in my life happened after I thought my life was over, you know, And so I thought that that maybe maybe that's gonna be useful, you know, maybe you know. So it's those kind of things that that motivated me actually write it, you know, right to write the book. I liked to The subhead of the book was a cautionary tale, which I laughed at because to me reading it back seems

like a life well lived to me. Well, but you know, I it's probably a little little couple of a couple of nuggets along the way that I picked up, and one of which is never leave your power base until you have a new one, you know, And I and I hope people listen to that, because you know, it doesn't matter how powerful you are in that power base.

And and and you're lucky to have a power base, of course, you know in the first place, right uh, And you're feeling a certain I don't know, feeling of success or a feeling of power, and you go off and you leave it behind. It's amazing how quickly, you know, you go from being a force of nature two completely irrelevant. I mean, it's it's it's shocking how quickly it happens. And I think that that's something that everybody should pay

attention to. You do, no matter how powerful you are, no matter how successful you are, man, you better know where you're going because things change, you know, things change in ways. Do you think you think you think your success is locked and concrete or you know, and it's not if not, you know? So, Yeah, the title the book is such a great title and recorded infatuations. I mean, I was thinking about a lot about what it meant

and why you may have chosen it. And the more I thought about it, I thought, that's such a great primary motivator for rock and roll, you know, I mean, that pent up passion, that yearning, that desire to be seen. I mean, maybe that says more about me than it does about you in the book title. But but what what led you to? Uh to that phrases the title again, I'm looking for more universal themes than just a music book for music people, you know. Uh, And it's plenty

of that in there. But but I thought to myself, you know, even even somebody like me, who is very successful what with the Street, and very successful with sopranos and Lilly Hammer, Uh, even successful politically with the Sun City project. Um, even somebody like me, most of my most personal projects UM never found an audience, you know. Um, none of my solo records succeeded, you know, commercially. UM. Going back and really re examining them artistically, I wouldn't

change the thing, tell you truth, you know. I mean, I was totally happy with with with everything I did artistically, But commercially. Uh, I never had that one hit, and which is really you know, a big difference, a big difference between no hits and one hit, you know. Uh, you know it's nice if you have ten hits or twenty hits or thirty hits, but one hit is what is what makes the difference to which I never had.

So so you you are constantly uh struggling to find ways of working, you know, uh, finding finding a patron, finding a deal. You constantly it's one long negotiations, it's one long audition. It's you know, it's a constant sort of fight. And I you know, instead of me spending you know, of my time artists on art and creativity and ten percent on business, it's the opposite, you know. And and I mean I'm being kind to myself saying I spent ten percent on on the creativity. It's probably

more like one percent, you know. I mean, as you know, spend every day, all day looking for money to pay for this overhead that I've created with you know, the radio format and the radio stations, and the record company and and you know, and and the foundation and this and that. You know, it's one of these things. Now pay for themselves, but a lot of them, don't you know. Uh never made money with the radio show. It's the most one of the most popular radio shows in the

world and one of thost you know. I have three stations on serious satellite now and um, you know we're on We're in a hundred countries with with the syndicated show. And it loses money, you know, And what are you gonna do? I mean, people depend on it. They you know, we have the only rock and soul format in the world. I mean, if we disappear, forget it, you know, we we we We've introduced over a thousand new bands in

twenty years, thousands, you know. Uh you know, and and they are gonna have nowhere to go if we disappear, literally, uh you know. So it's it's too important, you know, it's it's too big to fail. As the espression goes, it's it's too popular and fail, let's put it that way. And um, so you know, these things continue to be a struggle. So so you know, most of my most personal work, um, has not found an audience. And so um that's among the unfactored you know, the the unrequited infatuations. Uh.

But again, I think most people experience that and uh. UM. I was trying to emphasize the universal themes. Like I said, the second half of the book, UM goes from you know, the music thing to a bigger search for identity, a search for purpose in life, a search for spiritual enlightenment, you know. Uh. And those are the bigger themes that I think everybody can relate to relate to and uh and I wanted to do that. I wanted it to be more, you know, a bigger book than just for

music people. I mean speaking of of themes, I mean, the book was was so cinematic. I mean, you know, I don't want to spoil up for anybody, but I mean opening with with you know you in the back of a of a car being being smuggled in the

South Africa. I mean I could just see it playing out like a movie, which begs the question I wanted to ask you, what would be the theme song to UH to this book if this if there was you know, if you're putting together a soundtrack to your life, what do you feel like we kick things off or you know something's up? I don't know, man, you know, uh. Every album has its has its UH has its themes, you know, So it depends on what mood you're in, what phays of your life. I'm not sure and any

one thing sums it all up. I mean maybe, um, you know, maybe until the Good Has Gone something like that, you know from my first album, you know, uh, or soul Fire for my one of my recent records, you know, uh, something like that. Something uh, you know, solidarity maybe something, you know, one of the more universal type of themes.

You know. Man's are all good choices, I know. You you talk in your book about seeing the Beatles on on Sullivan and February sixty four is a you know, major turning point in your life, a musical big bang, and not just because of their sound and their look,

but the fact that they were a band. And I feel like that's something that a lot of people miss now that you know, talk a little bit more about just the importance of a band and what that meant in nineteen sixty four and how transformative that was to two young people. It's it's it's it's a little little hard to imagine. But there were no bands. Uh, there wasn't. You didn't see four or five guys singing and playing

you know, you didn't see it. Uh, if you went to your high school dancing was an instrumental group, you know, if you went to somebody's adding, you know, they were older guys, you know, Frankie Yankovic do and polka stuff. Well yeah, you know, yeah, but but you you know, so suddenly here's four guys and soon to be followed by fifteen other bands that are four or five guys. Um and introducing the band idea um, which was a totally different communication. Uh. Two people like me, especially who

really didn't fit in anywhere. You know, I was not really enjoying the options I was being offered by society. I just you know, I didn't see where my future was at all. And suddenly here was a glimpse at what could be the future. And you know, if you're a solo act, it's all about me, me, me, you know. Uh. Um, you either fall in love with me or you don't. You know, And um band Uh just was a different communication. It's it's friendship, it's the family, it's the team, the posse,

the gang, however you want to put it. Um. You know, guys working towards the common goal together. You knows, it's all kinds of a whole different texture to it. And uh and that that's what appealed to me, you know. Uh uh and not even the show business aspects of it, because I want a big fan of show business at that time. Uh you know, when you're I mean, I like it now, but but back then, you're building your identity and you are what you like, and um, you're searching.

Uh and and and I always connect the Beatles, um with the Rolling Stones, which came four months later. They came four months later and a different variety show called Hollywood Palace and uh Dino, Yeah, and I witnessed my past and my future there. Dean Martin relentlessly made fun of them, uh, you know, as he was supposed to, you know, which I didn't have a problem with, you know, Uh Keith Richards, you know, don't bring it up to his day because you know, he still piste off about it.

But uh but I was like, of course they're gonna make fun of them, you know. Uh. But what was important to me, you know, because the Beatles were we were we we discovered them halfway through the career and and they were extremely good. By that, I mean, they were they were perfect okay. I mean the harmony was amazing, you know, the hair or the clothes. You know, they were witty and and and conversation was and um and

the Stones were much more casual. You know, they made it look easier than it was, uh or whatever they felt like, you know, they were they were just kind of uh, you know, uh Simeon, they were Neanderthals. You know,

they were like, you know, just missing thropes. You know, they just had this thing about them, you know that was different and uh and nothing to do with show business and and and I said it a million times, but the fact that Mick Jagger didn't smile made a big difference to me, because that took it out of show business. Now you're into a lifestyle. You know. Whatever these guys were doing, it was it was tribal, you know, it was primitive. It was something that uh didn't belong

in show business. Really, you know. Now they were about to transform show business and bring show business to that really. I mean one of the great extraordinary achievements by the Rolling Stones, which they don't get enough credit for, is crossing over to the pop world. They were never a pop band, you know, but they managed to cross over for forty years and have hits, you know, so they were kind of dragon show business to them, you know what I mean. They were transforming show business for what

our idea of show business was. And the whole British invasion kind of did that starting with the Beatles. Um so, so all of a sudden we had a band culture. And uh, it wasn't just for those of us who were in a band either. I mean, uh, yeah, you would occasionally go to a driving you know, driving theaters were big, but if you didn't go to drive in you were going out to see a band, you know, or you know, or you're playing in the band. But but uh, but even even regular people were going out

to see bands all the time. It became a band culture from the Beatles and from the British invasion, you know, completely transformed, because it didn't exist before that. I mean literally didn't exist, you know, and boom here, all of a sudden, everybody in a band or you're going to see a band or you know, and that and that would last, uh you know, uh in the rock world, you know, to this day. I mean there's not really any solo rock guys. I mean, Bob Dylan probably the

only exception, you know, everybody else. It's really it's really a band culture. You know, it might be somebody into somebody's you know, but it's still it's still a band vibe. You know that that that rock uh you know that that makes it rock rock as opposed to pop. You know, so that that never changed, that kind of that kind of was that change was was kind of permanent. M Did you see the Beatles? You saw him at sh right? Yeah? The second time? Yea, oh wait? Was that the second one?

Was that? The one with the remains is one of the opening acts, you know? Um, I don't think so. Um. I don't remember the opening acts too much. Uh. I think it was the red rubber ball. Oh circle, the circle, Yeah, and uh some kind of um, some kind of R and B group. I don't think it was. I don't think it was King Curtis. Uh think Curs might have been on the first first one. It was some kind of you know, R and B type of group. And uh, I don't know. I really don't remember. I should remember,

and I don't. I don't think the girl was. I don't think it was the Runts or the Chiffons. I mixed up you know, I mix up the two the Touchet Stadium shows, but I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember really, but I think, you know, the circle, I think it was and uh, I'm pretty sure the remains and the Ronets for the first time, and maybe King Curtis too, something like that. But I remember, I

remember is they sounded great to me. And I'm like, in a second balcony, uh, you know, the speakers are like uh, you know, toothpicks and uh, they must have been pointed right at me. I don't know what to say. Everybody everybody was like, well, I could hear was screaming. I mean, well, first of all, I think the screaming was less the second time, and and and you know there was actually it was not sold out actually, um so it was you know, it was on the way

was on the way down. But still there was still screaming. But uh, but I don't know. They sounded like the record to me. Speaking of seeing them live, I was lucky enough to be in the audience in in London when you and Bruce and Paul played a slightly abbreviated UH set in UH in Hyde Park. That must have been I know Uh, playing with with Paul as A as a pivotal scene in you in your book. That must be such a great just full circle went for you. Yeah,

that was real closure. That that's you know, that was the thing. Uh. But every time, you know, we've done it now three times, and uh, it's always fun. You know, he's just a fun guy, and he's just like he's just the real thing. You know, he's he's you know, he likes to be one of the guys, you know what i mean, you know, and he's a lot of courage I mean, i mean coming on stage of the Eastreet Band was fantastic. And then he invited me and Bruce Hall stage with him at the Garden Well, which

was again it was so much fun. But him coming on my stage, Uh, that's something else. You know now we're talking about, you know, something that's just profound and you know so much so that you became a big part of the book. But yeah, he's just he's just doing a great and and and courageous. And he came up stage with me no rehearsal, not knowing what we're gonna do. You know, Uh, that takes some balls, man, you know, telling you right now, and a lot of

a lot of faith in me. And I really appreciated that kind of blind faith and uh, you know, encourage. You know, he's a he's the he's the real thing. Did you enjoy Get Back the uh documentary? Yeah? Yeah, And I'm glad other people are enjoying it, Um, you know, I I uh, I had a couple on an odd reaction to it a little a little bit, you know, but but you know, it's great, and I'm glad, you know,

I think most people are really really enjoying it. And uh and that's what counts, you know, uh a little bit, you know, in some case, in some ways, it's a little bit more than you need to know, you know. I like I like the fantasy, you know, and the illusion part of what we do. I think that's more important than reality. Okay, you know what I mean, that's just me, you know, I you know, I don't need

to know everything, you know. I like I like the way show business used to handle, uh, these kinds of things, you know, back in the old days, when you know, it was all good news, you know, I mean that was the publicist job, was to make sure it was all good news. And Andrew look Goldham, uh single handedly invented bad publicity, you know, and uh, I'm sure he regrets to now. The Stones had some good ones, The Stones had some good good bad publicity, yeah yeah, yeah.

But the but the thing was, you see, they could back it up, you know. They He may have been, you know, getting attention for them, but when he got the attention and people showed up, you know, they delivered. That's a difference. You know. He didn't always create an entire world that would depend on bad publicity as its content.

You know, the bad publicity would become the content of the whole modern world now, you know, and when people tune in, it's just morbid fascination because nothing is going to be delivered. You're not gonna get any any insightful content anymore from this stuff. It's just all bad news. And uh and that became trendy somehow, so it's weird, weird.

But in the old days, you know, when we were into dues to the British invasion, we all we thought they were all best friends, you know, and at one time and they all were, you know, but um, you know, they started having problems with each other pretty early on, all of them virtually all of them, you know, uh where the Towns and Adultery or the Davis brothers or you know MC and Keith or this one and that one.

You know, they all started having problems with each other, and um, and I don't want to know that, you know, I really don't want to know that. Um, because we bought we bought the illusion, and like I said, it wasn't an illusion at first, you know, and I think it was legitimate. But we were we were best friends and and still are, you know, because that was That's part of the gig, you know what I mean, that the bands are communicating friendship. That's why I wanted to

do it. You know. So the concept of being in a band with people you hate, this kind of runs contrary at all things. Yeah, you know, it makes no sense at all to me, you know, but at some point, I guess they they just had so much success that they kind of hung in there with each other, you know, Ramons. I mean, you know you name it right, uh, you know clash. I mean, you know, I don't know if any band, uh very few bands that that didn't have

this problem. I mean, I don't know, maybe you too might be uh on a few, but uh, you know, for the most part, it's uh, it's a bit of a it's a bit of an illusion that that I found to be extremely inspirational and motivational and important. So, you know, when things get a little bit ugly um and nasty weird, I really don't want to know about it. You know, there was a quote you gave and I'm trying to remember I think it was in your book.

It was really beautiful. I I'm I'm paraphrasing something to the effect of art is illusion and delusion and symbolism and it appeals to your imagination. I hope I'm getting that roughly right. But it was something beautiful. I thought

you said. It reminds me of what you're hitting on now. Well, yeah, I mean it's I might have been part of the our our teacher rock dot org music history curriculum perhaps, you know where I'm talking about the fact that kids bring these gifts with them, You know that they bring you know, the reason why we want to integrate art into the into the education system is because aren't is the way in for these kids who bring with them curiosity and imagination and and and uh uh instinct and emotions.

You don't have to teach anybody that. You know, they come with all those gripts, and typical school um ignores them or squashes them. And and our and our whole philosophy is let's encourage that, and let's connect with that, and let's use it. Let's use it. Uh. So our our, our, our integration of art into the public education system is

not after school. It's not an extra class. It's integrating art into science, into math, into engineering and into technology, you know, as as as an essential part of those disciplines. So you know, I think that's the future of art in terms of how useful it can be. And uh, and that's I think that's probably where you read that. And I mean thinking about there a lot of moments in your book and your life, um where it felt like you might turn away from music. I mean, you

spent years working, you know, on road construction. Was there a moment when you thought, Okay, I think this is kind of work out this, this, this music music is is my path? Was there do you have any kind of uh sort of lightning bolt moment where that that kind of made itself known to you. I'm still waiting

for that I'm hoping next. Um. I mean it's a little bit complicated, but basically, um we we we finally uh the Darkness on the Edge of Town tour, while not successful, started to have momentum, you know, starting to feel like we just maybe past the point where we're not going to succeed, you know. And and then the River. The River was that moment for when when we had the hit single and the hit album and you're selling

out of means and at that point you've arrived, you know. Now, I only enjoyed that moment for a year, and then I left the band, you know, which you know, on the great career moves of all time, as I go into great detail about, uh, but but that was the only moment really, and it was brief where I felt successful and you know, both artistically and commercially, you know, and that's you know, we're always trying to balance that art and commerce thing. But as it turns out, my

life ends up being the triumph of art overcomers. You know. I'm still able to somehow make records and tour and uh, you know, nothing I do makes money, so it's uh, it's kind of its own, uh, its own sort of success in some bizarre way, but they may. You know, For me, what's important is the work getting done somehow. And uh so yeah, I never really uh um um. And even in the acting thing, especially with Lily Hammer.

I mean, when I became a writer on Lily Hammer, you know, the first thing I did, but I said, you know, the guy's gonna open a club so we can put music in it. You know, I'm gonna put all my bands on my record label in it, and you know, and and others uh and uh So the music thing, Um, even if I'm not doing it, you know, full time. You know, even if I'm acting and writing and producing TV, the music thing will always play an

important role. Um. The only reason why I did No Sopranos is because David Chase was just so into it himself. So you know that's his favorite thing. Was was, you know, being his own music supervisor really you know, and um to this day he asked him, you know what's his favorite thing. He'll tell you, you you know, doing the music. Um. So he'd occasionally come to me if he needed something new, you know, because uh once uh uh Adrianna opened the

club you know in in in Sopranos. Uh you know, occasionally we need a band, you know, playing, so he'd come to me for something like that. But mostly he did he did almost all the music. Uh. But when I did Lily Hammer, I did all the music and uh, and that was that's fun. That is that is the fun part, you know what, one of the most post fun parts of of producing TV. So so even when even when I was acting, you know, I still had the music thing was still part of my life and uh,

you know, I'm sure it always will be. I think I've read somewhere that you've got a lot of scripts in the can. What's the latest with those? I mean, reading your book, I just said, it's it's a natural, it's so cinematic. Of course you've got a bunch of scripts in the works, But what's the latest with those? I haven't connected yet, you know. Um. I went down the road with a couple of them pretty far, but

nothing yet. And at this point, you know, the last year or so, um, well a lot ever since we did Letter to you, which was right before the quarantine, it's like two years already, right, jeezus, um um. At that point you know what I mean, I was like, I can't really commit to anything. So, um, I'm gonna pull back a little bit here. I want to give Bruce first priority if he wants to go out, which still being decided. I'd better be decided soon. Um. But if he wants to go out, you know, I'm gonna

do that. Uh, you know, have to and I'll wait. I'll wait another two years, which was what the tour would probably be, uh, and then get back on TV. But I want to get back on TV. I really miss it. I really do. When I and I do, I have five scripts and treatments. Yeah, yeah, I got lots of lots of ideas, you know, and I think, uh, and I think I know what I'm doing too. I mean, you know, I mean I watch a lot of TV, and uh, I'm not crazy about much of it, you know that I see and I think I know why,

you know what I mean. So I there's a certain certain things going on I think on most of the new TV shows that I think, I think, I I think I know why people are not you know, there's there's not that many hits anymore. You know, There's get a lot of quantity, you know, but it's not a lot of real quality where people are dedicated to a show. You know, you're know seeing that too often, and I think I know why, But we'll see, we'll see. Oh

that's so excited. Of course You've got your radio show, which I mean you mentioned earlier, is introduced over a thousand bands. I mean it is a huge inspiration to me personally. I had a college radio show which is basically a a pale imitation of your show, playing you know, obscure, you know, Mersey beat, garage band, girl group stuff. Um, I have I have a question for You're gonna hang up on me when I ask you this question. I I play this game in my heads sometimes when you know,

long car drives or something. I'm curious what what your answer to be? What do you think is is the the best year in rock and roll history? Oh? Yeah, that comes up, you know, through the years. It's a tough one. Um, I think you can make a case for uh, either you know, sixty five, sixty six, or sixty seven. Um, you know they're all a little different, but I think you can make a case for each of those, each one of those years. You know. For me,

I don't know. I love the psychedelic stuff, I really do, so I might go that way, but uh, sixty six is known as the garage rock year where you had a lot of the so called one hit wonders you know happen, you know, the most of the uh you know, the Friday on my Mind and the talk Talked and the and the you know, journey to the Center of the mind and uh uh elevators and ain't got nothing yet then yeah, you know what I mean, those kind of you know, psychotic reactions and uh you know, dirty

water and you know, you know a lot of those nuggets basically the nuggets that that uh, you're arguable. But that for me, even one of those three years, Oh man, min I'm a I'm a sixty six guy myself. That's yeah. I mean, stand standal certain for elevators of seeds, not to mention, you know, pet sounds and Blonde on Blonde and Parsley Stages, married time, I mean, go on and on exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's quite a good year. And but you know, you can make an argument for each

one of those. Oh man, I sorry, I could talk to you all day. I want to take up too much more of your time. I guess my place to close on. I mean You're such an inspiration because because you do so much. I mean you you are are active in in creating music and helping other people share their music, and helping young people starting out as kids trying to learn an instrument, trying to help enrich these arts programs, fighting for political justice. I guess my question is,

I mean, what keeps you hungry? You know, I mean, even just preparing to speak to you today, I must have seen You've done thirty interviews for your new book. It seems like you have just the most tireless work ethic. What keeps you excited? Um? I think everything I do, you know, I'm not sure there's any one thing, but I like, you know, I I love everything I do. I'm very lucky. I mean not only am I in the luckiest generation. I think I'm the luckiest guy in

the lucktion generation. You know. Uh, this happened to be in the right place at the right time, you know, with uh, with with Sopranos, and and then and then you know, we were we were the first show on Netflix with Lily Hammer, you know, making history again. Um happened to make that move on South Africa at a time when we were able to do it. You couldn't do it now, I wouldn't do it, you know. So um some things have had good timing, you know, some

good timing, and uh, you know, I don't know. Um, I just kind of like I like creating and uh there's nothing more fun than that, you know, they're just creating. You know. I want to I want to do some TV shows you know that I have in my head. And uh, I got a couple of movies in my head and and uh, uh you know, I like I like presenting, you know, a touring thing. You know, we used to do a touring thing with Wicked Cool where we would have um, four bands touring the country, one

from each generation. You know. Now we' you know, there's even more generations now, but you know we'd have a sixties band and seventies ban, eighties ban, and nineties band, you know. And I thought that was really cool and we had a way of having that funded by sponsors, and uh, you know, I like to do more and more more the live things. I like producing live stuff,

which I very rarely do. You know. I've done a few things in my life, I mean most probably my Broadway show was the thing I'm probably most proud of artistically, but you get a chance to use all of it, you know what I mean. I like, I like using all of it. Yes, I love music, but it's this one part of of the big picture. You know. I love I love the set design, I like I love lighting,

I love wardrobe, I love choreography. You know, I I like you know, so, um, you know, I kind of missed my you know, my ideal gig would have been a more of a diagole or uh mob fosse or I think that's what I should have been. You know, I kind of went sideways with the rock and roll thing. But uh, you know, so I I enjoy uh, I enjoyed the multiple you know, the multiple art forms coming together,

you know what I mean? That to me is is what it's all about, um, which was which is why you know I'm drawing to TV or movie because you get to combine all of those art forms, you know what I mean. You get to combine you know, the art design and and and wardrobe and you know and and and and music and you know, uh, cinematography and all of those a little different disciplines you know, coming

together to make this incredible art form. So I really haven't done as much of that as I would like, so I probably would do more of that if I could, uh if. I can't wait to see what what you have in the works. Thank you so much for your time today and especially your music and just all you've done. I absolutely adored the book. I can't wait for for

more people to check it out. Thank you so so much, Thank you much, and great talkus you We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app. Apple pod guests orever you listen to your favorite podcast