Sheryl Crow

soak up the sun, and of course the immortal. All I wanna do any one of those is enough to earn my undying love and respect for all lifetime. She's the subject of a new documentary on Showtime That's How Today, called Cheryl. It explores her incredible journey, which took her from teaching music to school kids to sharing the stage with Michael Jackson just a few short months before she exploded as a musical force in her own right with

Tuesday Night Music Club. The film documents her battle against far too many isms, sexism, ageism, and at times her own perfectionism. But it's ultimately a story about finding happiness on your own terms. It's a Happinessue sings up in a new song called Forever, which is included on the album that it companies the documentary, Inspired by your two sons. It's a tribute to cherishing deep connections and being truly present. I'm so happy to welcome Cheryl Crowe. I hope you

enjoy our conversation. I love your documentary so much. I mean, it's like your music. It's warm, revelatory, compelling, and just so unflinchingly authentic and honest. It's so wonderful. I was surprised to learn that you actually were a little hesitant to do it at first. Why was that, Oh, I think, well,

first and foremost, I'm a really private person. And I also didn't want to make a documentary that just felt like a recap of awards, and you know, I didn't want it to feel like a behind the music or something like that, even though I love v H one, so there's no knock against that, and they actually put me on the map, but I just want it to feel I wanted to tell the real story, and I wanted to actually tell the story of the person behind you know, thirty years of living or even longer than that,

you know. But I was hesitant because I feel like most documentaries are made about people after they've died, and I just thought, oh, I still have a lot of living to do. But anyway, I gave into it and we did it. It was so incredible, And as you mentioned, this documentary, we'll teach people so much about the person behind these songs that we know and love. Did it

teach you something about yourself? Yeah? I mean, I guess in in reflecting on all of the life's experiences, I really realized that a lot of what I went through is what so many women go through, no matter what business they're in, particularly when you work in companies that are run mostly by men. And and you know, there was there's just a lot along the way that I think probably a lot of young female artists have experienced. And there was something kind of liberating about being able

to tell that story. None of these things I've I ever talked about openly or publicly, and even talk about getting older in my business, which is you know, has its own set of challenges. UM, and to talk about mental health and UM I learned, you know, I learned that ultimately I wound up being the person I started out as. UM. I went on a lot of detours and it took me a while to figure out how to get back. But um, it was interesting living reliving it.

It was so interesting. And it opened with um clips from an interview where the interview calls you driven, which to me sounds like a compliment. And I heard that, I thought, But then reading more about it, seems like that was a much more loaded phrase in in the early to mid nineties. I thought it was an interesting

way to start the documentary. Yeah, I mean, it still is somewhere I can remember when um, I think it was Kamala Harris was running for president or maybe Amy Closure, and they called her and bitious, She's too She's she's too ambitious, and that's a bad thing if you called that. If you say that about a man, you go, yeah, he's gonna be great, you know. And um, it just

seems to be sort of a sideways compliment. Um. And And certainly when I was asked, I think Steve Croft asked me about it, it did hit me kind of funny, like, you know, what a horrible thing to be called driven? I thought it came across to me as a compliment. I hadn't realized Yeah it was. I mean, this film is so wonderful. Anyone listening now who hasn't seen it yet, please pause this episode and go listen to it or

go watch it. It is absolutely amazing. One of the most mind blowing moments of this documentary for me was when you were hired to go out on the Michael Jackson tour relatively soon after arriving in Los Angeles. I mean, I've known the story, Oh my god, I mean I've known the story, but seeing the footage from these shows in Tokyo in front of seventy thousand people whatever, it

was really just put it in perspective. Did did seeing that level of fame at that close range and everything that comes with it, from the craziness and you know, intrusion, to the privilege and the adoration. Did that alter your musical goals in any way? Was it like, oh my gosh, I maybe I don't want this type of thing, or there was it the opposite. Did it Did it inspire you to be not to use that word ambitious? Yeah?

You know what it did? It made me really confused because I was I was raised um by too hard working and really you know, solid Midwestern parents, and I was raised um with this idea that if you're a good person and you know you do the right thing and you work hard, that you know that's that's what will serve you in life. And when I got on that tour and really got a glimpse into what how

the business works. You know the fact that large corporations will buy or back then this was during Paola, that they would buy, you know, a million copies of Michael his record, it would come out at number one. I mean, they everything was mapped out. I came away from it feeling like I'm never going to be able to be a big artist because I don't have that machine behind me. And then also, um to witness this incredible artist, whether you like Michael or you don't, after what we know

about him. Um to witness that kind of artistry and to see massive audiences reacting, um like he was the Beatles or whatever. I mean, it just was a huge I've never seen anything like it. I've never been out of I've barely been out of Missouri. I mean I've only been in California for six months. Every single thing about that about that tour, the eight months of it

was was life changing. And when I came home, Um, I went back to complete um unknown nous, no one knew who I was, and I started waiting Tay was again. It was like I went right back to where I was before, Like it never happened. Wow, I mean it must have been fitting in a sense because I think I'm right and saying ABC was first record you ever bought? Right, first record I ever bought was ABC. Yeah. I have a lot of threads in my life. Who are some of the other artists who sort of set you on

your path? Um? Well, growing up, you know, around well as early as I remember, my parents played music in the house. They were musicians. Um. I I listened to a lot of James Taylor and Carol King tapestry. Um, I listened to a lot of My parents played a lot of big band music and a lot of crooners, so I knew all that stuff. I grew up watching musicals on TV like Oklahoma and My Fair Lady and

West Side Story. But then as I got older, I gravitated to you know, Fleetwood Mac and the Rolling Stones, and um just got really into rock and roll and started to cut my teeth on that. And then when I went and saw Bonnie Right as a teenager and saw her playing guitar. I was like, okay, wait a minute, So you can be a woman and you can play guitar and you can front a band of dudes. Um,

and that's what I wanted to do. What is the transition like going from somebody who who appreciates music and loves to listen to it to creating your own and writing your own songs. I mean it's someone like me who loves music with all of his heart and has never been able to write a song in his life. That's a turning point. That's always fascinating for me. What was there a moment for you, like a light bulb moment or was it a gradual progression. I didn't have

a life bold moment. I just had this work ethic and and also this. I felt like music was a lifeline for me. I mean, I think a lot of kids will find that thing that they formed their identity around because being a teenager is hard, you know. I can't imagine being a teenager now with social media. But um, for me, it was music, Like I knew how to play.

I could play by ear, I could play anything I heard, sit down at the piano and play TV Wonder and Elton John and UM, you know, I just knew that's how I I saw myself, and I saw myself getting out of my hometown, and um, music was just a lifeline for me. And that was the very thing that I just gravitated to in every way. You know, I had no business crashing an audition for Michael Jackson, but I just felt like, what do I have to lose, you know, so, UM, I just kept kept keeping on.

There was something you said recently, I think it was on the Bobby Bones podcast about your your writing process and creative process, at least for your first few albums, when I think it was Bill Buttrell suggested that everyone played the ttreament that wasn't their primary one, which to me is just the coolest thing. I mean, you're a classically trained pianist and now you're on bass or something. I just thought that was such an interesting method. I

wanted to ask you more about that. That way to keep a spontaneity in the creative process. Yeah, and I really gravitate to that now even and I carry that with me and I learned I've learned so much from so many people along the way, and that is has

been a really valuable tool. And it's really the reason I wound up playing bass, because I find myself playing writing melodies over bass lines, which kept me from just playing the same chord progressions because as a piano player, you know, you get comfortable, you know what sounds good, and I would I would think melody and lyric and just play the route, and then I would try to have somebody else come in and play the bass part and be like, no, that doesn't feel right, so I

wouldn't be in the bass player right and that that was just such a great way to approach record making, was by like what can what can I do that has have been done before? And um and I still try to do that. That is so cool. You're one of my my bass playing heroes. I I loved you and I've I've really rarely heard of people writing on the base. I think that's the coolest thing that you use that as as your your muse, your starting point. Yeah, it's been really I mean, I have this one guitar.

It's an acoustic guitar. It's this nineteen sixty four country and Western that we call the Little money Maker because most of the songs that I've made money off of have been written on that, but um, starting about the Globe sessions, I started writing on base and wrote my favorite mistake on base and wrote, I mean there's a lot of myself that was written on base, and um, yeah,

it's it keeps me from being schlocky, I think. I mean, speaking of the Little money Maker, I was gonna ask you, is there an element of I hate to use this word, but superstition in your songwriting? I mean a certain instrument, a certain room, a certain time of day, a certain t that you drink before you start. Is there an element just to kind of that gets you in in the zone, for lack of a better term, for when you start. It's been a really funny um progression for me.

In the old days, we would never record before like you know, six at night. We generally in the old days, I would walk in and just have like a couple of lines for a song, or have a couple of ideas or whatever, and we would you know, go out and run around New Orleans or wherever we're recording New York. We come back after dinner, we drink some beer or some wine, and you start recording about ten and then we'd go to like four in the morning, you know,

it would be crazy. And something in my mind was like, well, I can't write a great song unless I've had some wine and it's like the middle of the night or whatever. My last few records I've written between school drop off and school pick up, and I am so inspired. So I don't know. I think. I think once you get that that thing out of your head that tells you this is the way it's got to be, you can write anywhere just by sitting quiet, picking up a base

or a great instrument, and just seeing what happens. Do you find that that the best songs are the ones that are most effortless, ones that kind of come with the fastest. Yeah, I think the ones that are the most anointed are the ones that kind of come out of nowhere. And then there are those songs that are good songs that you've crafted because you know how to

craft a song. But I've had a few songs in my career that came out of nowhere that weren't even typical of how I write um that I feel like are just the gifts that you are eternally humbled by.

What are some of those or any to come to mind. Yeah, I mean Redemption Day is definitely one of those that that was the song that um came off the heels of my going and playing for the troops in Bosnia and I came home because I I split up with a relationship that I thought was kind of a forever relationship and was going to you know, right from the heart,

and I just couldn't get anywhere with it. So I put my guitar down and opened my computer and suddenly I've written seven or eight stanzas, which is not really how I write. I don't usually embrace or even adopt that Bob Dylan cadence. But it just came out of nowhere as if it was it needed to be written, and then ultimately Johnny Cash wound up recording it. So it just goes to show you that music is just it's not definable. Inspiration is not definable. Um, it's from

some other cosmic space, you know, It's just it's a gift. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about I'm so fascinated by the notion of rules in the songwriting because I'm just that line between rules and raw creativity, and and you've spoken about how you know listening to people like Burt back Rack, is it just you know that that's a great teacher right there, just listening to stuff. How important our rules in the songwriting? Is that the kind of thing that you need to know in order to break them.

It's funny when I went to college, I got my degree in classical piano, and you had to take a composition class, and they're all these rules, like you can never use um parallel fists. And now it's all these um all these rules that are basically meant to be broken if you're truly tapping into art. And I do feel that way about songwriting, although I think there's something really beautiful, and I tell this to young artists all

the time. One of the greatest things you can ever do is get in a cover band, because even by osmosis, you you are exposed to what makes music, what makes styles, what makes a great pop sound great. And for me having grown up in cover bands and for me learning how to sing like I mean, being in car bands and having to sing like Shaka Khan, now you're gonna sound like Chrissy Hin. Now you're knowing how to manipulate

the voice. All those things are really powerful when you sit down to try to figure out who you are, and you're able to pull from these influences. Um. I I find it to be really helpful. Um. I mean, I can listen to a bird Back erect song and I will ultimately if I sit down and start playing, I will write something that's a little bit different than if I've just listened to an Eagle song or and neither one of them less important than the other. That's

so interesting. I never thought of it that way. Almost reverse engineering these, you know, these hits if you're in a cover band, to kind of see what what what works? Yeah, I mean, and it's great, you know, it's great to know why. Um you know, uh, James Jamerson Baseline can suddenly make a a song fly out of the radio and last for fifty years, you know. And those are the things that if you're lucky and ever get one of those, um, you know, you can retire happy. What

is your relationship like to music today? Is it is it a daily practice like some people do yoga and some people jog, or is it something that you do only when you feel moved and feel as though you know you have something to say? Um? Well, it's it's been different recently because when the pandemic happened, I had so much free time and it was it was beautiful free time. I mean, i'd feel a little guilty saying that, but I didn't have that pole like, oh my gosh,

everybody else was touring. I should be out there touring. Nobody was touring, and to be able to just it down and play and have the luxury of getting back into just loving music, playing other people's songs, and um, I've gotten more. I just I will more likely go sit at the piano or pick up my guitar now and just play for the fun of it than I

have in years. And it feels so great. And my kids when I first started doing that and practicing, I mean I started actually practice practicing my own material so I could do virtual concerts. They're like, what are you doing? And I said, well, I'm practicing, and they're like, why

are you practicing? You already know how to play. And I'm like, because practice makes you better, you know, and that, and because I love it, and it's the reason that I do it is because it's it's the thing I left first, and so it's good for them to see that as well. Um, but yeah, I do write when I'm I'm inspired, but I also write when I'm not inspired,

and sometimes good songs come out of that. Wow. I mean that's the craft I guess too, when you can sit down and make a song even where there was once nothing, You you get up from your desk later and there's something right there. Yeah, And that's the great motivating factor is that you there's there's always that possibility that you'll come out with something that you've never written before, and it it makes you feel I think a really interesting example of that. I was a huge fan of

the Beatles Get Back documentary and to see them. I think I heard you say that that watching the band sit down trying to come up with stuff on the spot and really for a lot of it fail. Uh, changed your relationship to music in a certain way. I think was something that I think walking that just blew

my mind. I mean, I think, um, well, first and foremost, there was so much, so much lore about who they were and how they broke up and all that, and you witnessed these friends, I mean, and and not just friends, but like, um, they were like blunkers. I mean they literally were like discovering and creating music that has been the springboard for all of us. And and to witness

the incredible talent. I mean even when they were jamming up those songs that ultimately wound up on the Wide album and Abbey Road and Let It Be, Um, just the incredible musicianship. I was so inspired, um by that documentary that I went up watching the third one twice and then went up going in the studio and writing this song called Forever with my buddy Jeff. That is right from you know, the Yesterday Handbook or the Blackbird Handbook of just vulnerability. That song I was going to

ask you about that, your song Forever. I found it difficult to listen to and watch the video without getting choked up. I thought it was so truemendously moving, such a touching piece of music. I wanted to ask you more about that. Obviously, much of your your your sons are in there. Um. Then they've never been I've never let him be a part of mine social media platform. I've always felt like they need to be shielded from that because they deserve the right to just be kids

and not be famous. Um. But that song was was the result of my fifteen year old to me home and talking about this stress that he experiences at school and some of his friends experience. And man, kids today experience so much more stress than we did. I mean we they're worrying about the big stuff, like whether the planet is gonna not sustain us. I mean, they're worried about things that would never have been in my mind. I would be worried about whether I got asked to

the eighth grade dance. You know that that that was the kind of worry we had, and um so that that was the impetus for that song and the inspiration for it. It's an incredible track. It's on the album that's accompanying the documentary. There's a few new songs on it. I also love. But this Way Let It Bleed is one of my favorite Stones albums ever. Your version of Live with Me, Oh it rocks. It's so great. What

led you to record that track? It's so awesome? Well, you know, it's we It's in the documentary and it was the very first thing I ever got to play with the Rolling Stones. And man they have been I mean they're the bedrock for me of I mean, if it weren't for them, there'd be now Sheryl Crow for sure, and um, so we thought this would be fun. It's in the movie. Let's do a cover. Let's do our version of their song, which is a crazy task in

and of itself. And then and the when we were done, I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna text Mick and just see if he might play harp on it. I mean, the fact that I could even text him, that I even have his number is makes my head one to explode right now. But and he's said yes, and he's like, send it on and he did it, and there it is, and it's doing

really well from what I understand. So, um, it's you know, it's it's so much fun, and it's such a cool it's such a cool song, and it's so much it's just a cool thing. I'm so stoked. It's so great. You're finally gearing up to to head on the road again, finally, I mean this that's got to just feel so good. And the boys coming to I know, they've got had some special guest spots in the past. They always come with me, and I think at which point they don't

want to come anymore. I'll definitely slow down. I asked him all that time, do you want me to retire? Get me stawn home? And They're like, no, no, no, we love going on the road. We love it, and but I think at some point girls are going to enter the picture and going out on the road with mom is not gonna be as much fun. But we're

excited about it. I mean, it's been a couple of years that have been really for everybody, really hard to sit on your hands and to watch people that you love not be able to work, and so um, yeah, we're super superside. Sure. I can't wait to see you out there. So thank you so much for your time today, and most importantly, thank you for your music. It's given me and so many people I love so much joy over the years. You were the best. Thank you. Oh

my gosh, Jordan, thank you for having me on. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.