Rufus Wainwright

intriguing projects, not to mention always rewarding. When he titled his last album Unfollow the Rules, it seemed less like a name than a mission statement. He's one of my musical heroes, and now he's paying tribute to a musical hero of his own. He famously restaged Judy Garland's iconic Carnegie Hall show in two thousand and six, complete with

a full band and a full audience. Now, in honor of what would have been a hundredth birthday, he's releasing a more stripped down affair backed by a jazz quartet. He recorded the tracks in Hollywood's A Story Capitol Record Studios for an added dose of authenticity. He even employed a microphone she'd once used. The scale down arrangements are mirrored by the scaled down audience. In this case, it

was just one person. His friend Renee Zellwigger, who portrayed Garland in the two thousand nineteen film Judy My guest today, has done an equally stunning job and habiting the larger than life talent on this new record, Rufus does Judy at Capital Studios. I'm so happy to welcome Rufus. Wayne, Right, Judy one of my favorite topics. I know one of yours as well. Um, you've talked about really first embracing the Judy's Carnegie Hall album as a way of providing

joy for yourself in the aftermath at nine eleven. Giving the last two years we've all had, I feel like we could all use a dose of that Judy Rufus magic right now. So I feel like the timing is perfect. Yes, yeah, well, I mean it wasn't actually nine eleven. It was it was the the invasion of Iraq, which which was after.

I mean because right after nine eleven there was this moment, brief moment when it seemed like the world was going to come together and be you know, supportive of of the United States and try to heal from that, you know, tragedy. But then all the next thing, you know, we were invading Iraq, and it was just such a kind of non sequitur and uh, really traumatic experience that I still

think believe we we you know, suffer the consequences of so. Yes, at that point, the Judy record became a reminder of sort of a slim reminder of of of of just the occasions where you know, the US can be a fabulous place and create you know, love and and and

and brilliance and and and positivity. And yes, I think definitely today, in this day and age, especially even maybe even more than back then, at least domestically, Um, we are in a you know, a pretty sad predicament and and and and and we have to once again, you know, try to resurrect what what what makes this place a great place, the United States? I mean, just this, the spirit of this music, I feel like it's so so necessary and needed right now. And obviously your relationship with

Judy Trance ends the Carnegie whole album. You have a very deep relationship with the song over the Rainbow, which you've been singing since you were a child. How did you first get in touch with with Judy? Yeah, well it's funny because I had there's a there's a sort of there's a classic story at this point in my life where, um, when I first met Laurena Left, uh, you know, Judy's daughter, I was, I think, and this

is all on film. I believe somewhere I should find the footage anyways, but I one of the first things I said to her was, you know, somewhere the Rainbow was my song. I just sort of brazenly, you know, expressed that because you know, I I sang it since I was a little little kid, and you know, just totally missing the point that you know, it was actually

written for her mother. So so um so yes, I've always had a very intense relationship to that piece of music, demandly because my mother taught it to me when I was very young, and she used and I guess my you know, rendition was so captivating that that, uh, it became a kind of weapon that she could use, you know, at parties and you know it either you know, you know, get people's attention or to you know, let's say, ended an evening you know where things have gotten a little

too sloppy, so bring down the kid and I'm singing somewhere the Rainbow and then I could go to bed kind of thing. So so it was uh yeah, it had a whole range of of of of usages. I love your rendition on this new live album. I the the acapella opening was just yeah, that's well, that's very much an homage to my mother, Like it came mcgarriga,

who sadly passed away over ten years ago. So so me saying because on the original Carnegie Hall album she's accompanying me solo on the piano and that the orchestra comes in, so it's it's a nod to at It's so beautiful. I mean, there's so many incredible moments on this record. I mean I wanted to ask you to me. Judy Garland is just one of the most compelling figures in entertainment. I mean, her talent, her strength, her stories.

I love her movies and her albums. I love the autobiography tape she made where you just hear her fire. I just think it's so so captivating. What is it about Judy that that captivates you? Yeah? Well, I mean it started early, um, you know with the Wizard of

Oz and all of that. But I will say that you know, there's a there's a there's a funny little family connection as well, because you know, my dad loud and Win right the third he was actually briefly or for for a couple of years, uh brought up uh in Um in Beverly Hills because his father, my grandfather, Loudon Jr. Was he was covering Hollywood for Life magazine and they they they they were friends with Judy Um and uh and and and in fact, Judy Garland I

think babysat my dad or something and uh and him in lies that used to hang out as as when they were around ten years old. So so so there is actually a personal connection. Um. And I'm now you know, quite good friends with with Laurena as well. So it's been you know, a couple of generations here or three arguably and um. But but yes, in terms of her music and her um you know, star status and and and and the power of her, of her of her legacy.

Yet know that that that hit me young and and then all through my life, you know, whether it was you know, my my trials and tribulations with addiction, or my desire to be like the best thing er possible, or my you know, just wanting to have a laugh. Um. You know, Judy Goldan was always there as a as a big kind of sorts. That's what is always fascinating

about her. I mean to this hope and these bluebirds and rainbows in the face of these tremendous you know, personal demons and and just that that strength that she always displayed. You mentioned story with your father. I love your song me and Liza. I think it's an attribute to this. It's a great track, definitely, definitely so this album. You recorded the album at Capital and you use the mic she use, which that must have been just so special. I'm a huge believer in in places and artifacts being

imbued with that energy. What was that like? Well, you know, on one hand, it was incredible, But I also feel like, on the other hand, it's quite common in the sense that you know, I've worked and I've worked in um amazing studios for years and and and in Hollywood, uh and Los Angeles, storry, all over the city. UM, and you know, a really amazing mic is often used, you know, so so because they don't make them like they used to do. And there is something very organic about that

whole um world. And and so I'm pretty sure that a lot I've used a lot of mics that have been used by a lot of great people. Um. But yes, take that out and and really focusing on that for this recording. Was was was a was a wonderful experience. Um. And I think especially doing it in the room you know where where she where she recorded herself, you know, gave it an extra um kind of you know, sparkle

but um. But yeah, but it's it's one of the perks of of of living in in in l A. You know, there are problems with this town, but there there are there are upsides too. I mean that room in that microphone that was at a concert of yours once and you describe yourself as the secret child of Judy Garland and Frank Sinatra. So I feel like being in that room is perfect right, Yes, Yes, I was, I was. I was born in that room. Do you came out I came out of an amplifier, an old

tube amplifier. Yeah. Classic. Did you own any any artifacts of Judy's Um? Do I own any artifacts of chitties? Uh? You know, I don't. Um. I I do have a signed copy of of of her of her you know, Carnegie Hall record she signed, UM, I don't the one that I you know, I was very close to Carrie Fisher. Um. So I have some you know, um some some some of her stuff, but uh and and some stuff of her mother's but but nothing of Judy's yet. I'd like to get what I'd love to get as a compact.

I'm I'm a collector of compacts. I had quite a few compacts of famous opera singers, uh, like you know, Jane Caspan, Victoria de Los Angeles, so, you know, for makeup and stuff. So maybe I'll maybe I'll ask Laurena if she could you know one day. Wantemplate that as a as a gift of sorts, or I'll pay get up something I love. I watched the the Virtual Concert when this was recorded, and I love that your your micro audience consists of Renais l Wigger obviously is a

dear friend of yours and brilliantly portrayed Judy. And I was wondering when she was in the midst of making that film, did you both talk about you know, but kind of getting inside Judy at all. I mean, we we had a we had a couple of interactions, but but she had already really made the film at that point. You know, this was when we were she was working

on the album, uh from the movie. But uh, you know, I yes, we had a couple of conversations of sort of the act, but it was mostly about the aftermath of having you know, inhabited her her her spirit and so so yeah, it was, it was, it was, It was really um wonderful. But but but in terms of like when when you know, when she began that process, you know, I think she was. She's a she's a professional, she knows that she's doing, doesn't need my help. I think.

Referring to the the original concert you did in in OH six, you described it as an exorcism of sorts. I was. I thought that was a really interesting choice of words. I wanted to ask you more about that. Yeah, I know, it was very much a kind of um celebration, but yes, and an exorcism as well. I had sort of um moved to Hollywood to make my first album, and and and and brought along my you know, Judy obsession, uh as well, And and I kind of went on

and on and on and and and then. Uh yeah, at a certain point when I decided to do the the Carnegial concert, I I think I was, I was just ready for another stage in my life, uh where I could sort of, um, I don't know, just uh focus on on on on on other kind of legacies, shall we say. Um and uh and so I I

I and I did. Actually after after that series of concerts, UM, I feel less kind of you know, um inclined to uh, you know, to to to buy a Judy Garland record whenever I would go to a record store, which was which I used to do all the time. Um. And It's also interesting is that when I did the tenth anniversary concerts UM at both Carnegie Hall and also in Toronto with an orchestra, UM, the minute I started them, UM, I instantly felt nothing like Judy Garland. I really did

feel much more like my dad, Frank Sinatra. Um and you know, had this had more of a masculine um kind of approach, kind of more tougher uh delivery, shall we say. But but what's nice is it now with this recording that I did it. But we did at Capital Studios and and so forth. Um, I think I

feel like she's returned. You know, I feel like there's there's sort of I'm maybe more channel challenge, channeling her her studio work and her um and her kind of how can I say, at her her kind of almost medical or uh find you know, attention paid to to the songs. You know, there's a clinical um precision, ability, precision that she had or with singing that that's that's captured in her studio work. So so yeah, So it's

so she's back. Oh That's one of the things that I think is so amazing about these arrangements that are more stripped down. It doesn't have the thirty six piece orchestra, but a small jazz combos. I feel like there's there's more room for the emotion to shine through, and we can hear kind of every breath of and pause of yours more And I think that that makes it. It adds a level of I don't know what the right word is. Darkness is certainly not the word I want

to use. But there's you can step depth, which which is uh yeah, I I you know, I think it's a combination of things. It's both doing it in the studio, but also the fact that I've now been singing these songs for almost twenty years. So there they are, you know very much, and and encrusted in my bones and stuff. And wish Judy had when she did her Carneie Hall show.

That was always something that um that I feel like I was, you know, I just I could never you know, match, But now that I feel like I can make me match on certain numbers, not all of them by any means, but on certain ones. You know, those songs I have made my own some of them. Is it in a sense because you you've lived some of them in a way,

as suddenly those experiences are are more personal to you. Yeah, well, I mean they're also you know, you know, there are love songs, and there are also songs about survival and songs about you know, sentimental um thoughts and and and uh so, yes, I think as you get older, you um yeah, you start to you know, things become more precious and more valuable and and more fleeting and and uh and and so therefore or a little bit more

you know sad. So so so it's just to the songs, I could sort of imbue the song with that and That's the thing that always blows me ways that all I've I've reached to put on your your live album or Horror original live one as well, over the years. And you know, I'll put it on when I want to, you know, hear, when I feel a little nostalgic and I want to hear you know, almost like being in love or something and feel a little up, and I'll

put it on. And I'm always blown away by the power of it and just struck by the path it's. Is that just the depth of it is. It's so you know, you you expect some you know, some some levity, but I'm always it's always becomes a something that you can't put on in the background. Let me put it back, something that demands your attention. Yes, well, that's that's interesting to bring that up, because I think, on one hand that has been my greatest asset and also my greatest attraction.

Why is that, well, in the sense I mean like the music that I've I've created, whether it's my Judy Garland work or my other albums for that matter, Um, you know, yes, you cannot put them in the background, and and they demand a certain amount of attention, and that that works great. You know if you're into music and you want to kind of go on that journey.

But if you just want to sit around and have a cup of coffee or be watch a commercial and focus on you know, the car, uh, then uh, then my music is it can be problematic because because because it does demand all everyone's attention so so um so yeah, it's it's something that I've always tried to juggle, you know. And uh, you know, let's just say that we don't live in necessarily the most um kind of thoughtful period of time and and uh yeah, so it's it's a struggle.

But but on the other hand, I think for those who who do appreciate that and who are willing to um go on the journey with me, you know, they're there, they become very loyal and and uh and and and they keep coming back. So it's that's how that's how

it works for me. I feel like I owe you a huge thanks as a as a music fan, I was always aware of this concert and in its place in pop culture history, but it really wasn't until Your Rendition in two thousand and six and the album came out and the following year that I delved into this catalog and absorbed these songs, and I was wondering how much of that was a motivating factor for you to kind of pass these songs along to people that you know might not know him. You know, that's a whole

uh subject on its own. Um. The you know the fact that that that that period in American songwriting is arguably the you know, kind of the golden era of of American music. Um. Whether it's you know, the the arrangements or the lyrics or the melodies. You know that it seemed like everything was working at full speed at

that time. UM and uh so so yeah, I I I very much consider it kind of a legacy that that that as an as an American and I'm both the Canadian and American, but but on my American side, you know, I it's important to m celebrate and try to match, you know, uh, whether it's with your singing or your or your songwriting, um, for so that we can continue this um you know this uh excellence um and uh and so forth. Do you feel in any way that you've come to understand Judy any better having

gotten insider for these songs and these performances. Uh? Well, I mean, I I do feel that there's a through this performances and the songs. I mean I I do under I am constantly and this hasn't really changed over the years. You know. Amazed by her technical ability in

the sense not so much innurse singing. I mean she's, yes, she's an incredible singer, and she cuts the corners and and that's fantastic, but justn't know her whole presentation, you know, how how how how she really knew how to move on stage, you know, how she where where her gaze was focused her and because she was an incredible dancer, you know. Um, and so just that whole kind of training thing which which which in my in our day and age, is so lacking you know, uh in terms

of the entertainers today. Um, though some could do it, you know when you you know, justin Bieber, you know, uh, Lady Gaga, you know, they they you know, they worked really hard on the full package. So so that's so it's not dead or anything, but but hers is so effortless and so kind of I don't know, elegant, and uh so there's that, but but in terms of actually talking to people who knew her um and worked with her. Um,

I am. I am always fascinated by how I think her personality was very different from from that which the public expected, you know it was I think she was I think she was a lot sort of dirtier in the sense like she was she was kind of she had a real kind of uh, how can I say, this wicked streak in her that was hilarious but also pretty you know, uh, scary if you were you know, in the line of fire and uh and there was this kind of you know, punk rock thing about her

that um that is always you know, I don't know, pretty pretty, fascinating and uh and and makes me of course appreciate her more. Oh yeah, And I don't know, I don't she was not a good girl. I mean, what's those interviews with her? You know, I think it's Steve Allen that she's all She gives these great interviews, but she tells these stories and they're there. She's rowdy on network TV in the early sixties. It's incredible she is. And I think that that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So interesting, so multifaceted. And I do want to say, as somebody who's senior, perform a number of times for twenty years. Oh my god, yeah, twenty years. Um. I truly believe as a fan you have you possessed that effortlessness. I don't know how you you do what you do, you have this ability to I saw you at Lupo's

Heartbreak Hotel and Rhode Island in two thousand three. I believe, and it felt like you were saying I remember I was there with a dear friend of mine and we were driving home after he said, Oh my god, it felt like he was singing to us. And I feel like that's something that that Judy and all the greats have where you just connect with everybody in the audience and I um, so well, thank you. Um. This Judy uh concert was the finale of your I have to pause.

Rufus Well, Rufus Retro Wayne Right spective. There we Go was the finale of you Rufus Retro Wayne Right spective where you revisited all your past albums. Um. We actually spoke soon after you started doing these shows in early for your debut and poses. I want to ask you what is your relationship like to these earlier songs? Now? Do you recognize that person who wrote them and recorded them? Or is it like looking at an old school photo. No, I mean I know that they're all very I do.

I do recognize that that person. I mean I tend to subscribe to a more kind of Hindu type explanation of existence. I'm not I'm not Hindu, but but there's they they for instance, and I'm really you know, butchering

this whole concept. Um. But you know, essentially they believe that, you know, a person is made up of six or seven people, and uh, and that you know, and I felt over the years that these very much like a tree, um, you know, I developed these branches of my personality and and and at this point, you know, I'm kind of high up and and uh and I can look down and and really, you know, still feel and see you know, these other characters that have that have that have that

I that I've in habitant and created and and that are still you know, within me. So it's it's, uh, yeah, I think the minute you start to say, oh, I'm no longer that person, that's you know the beginning of the end, that's when that person decides to you know, hijack the situation. So so so, yes, I'm very respectful of my past of my past incarnations. You recently released a incredibly fascinating x called an audio memoir on Audible

called road Trip Elegies Montreal to New York. One of the most powerful moments for me was a conversation you had with you with your aunt Anna where she told you, I'm paraphrasing to embrace your family's fantastic legacy, which to me it was just like the opening of an Arthurian legend. Yeah, you know, it's just so I've seen those as and clips of you performing, you know, HMS pianoforre at school as a team. Was music something that was always something of sort of like a given for you? Or was

there a turning point? No? No, music was always front and center. Um. And that that's really mostly due to my mother, Kate, who you know, now that she's passed. I I really you know, I can quantify the the loss um and um because you know, she was someone who always needed to play the piano, always needed to, you know, teach a song to someone, always needed to hear what someone's voices was like if they were visiting, you know, like music was just always streaming through her

through her veins. And uh. And now that she's she's she's gone. It's the world is is very different, you know, it's I mean I love to sing, my sister loves to sing, My aunt Anna loves to sing. But we're not necessarily you know, doing it every night, which when my when my mother was alive, you know, that was the case. We still perform a lot, and music is still very central. But but but Kate was really the engine.

Uh So, Yeah, I loved your song for her beauty, Mark, Yeah, of yours such a great uh smirk of a tribute. I love it so much. I mean, I'm hard pressed to think of an artist who right out of the gate had developed such a singular voice and style that was all your own. I mean, it just seemed like

you arrived completely fully formed. What was inspiring you when you first went into the studio to to record your your debut, Well, I mean I think I was brought up and and both by my mother and father actually uh and family members that to to really appreciate excellence in all sorts of songwriting, you know, whether it was standards or classical music or folk music. I mean there was a real wide variety of material that I grew

up with and appreciate it. And so I just felt like whatever I was gonna do, it had to map at that code, you know, and it had to be something that was really attempting to to to to you know, I don't know, just last and uh so, so I just had that that that that drilled into me as as as a young person, and when I went in to make my records, you know, that was my one,

my my main uh objective. I mean, it wasn't necessarily about you know, what the kids were doing at that time, or who I was hanging out with, or what was going on in the mainstream. It was just about, like, let's try and create something that's that's as good as what I grew up, what I've heard so far and what I've learned to appreciate. And there was this kind of tunnel vision that um that once again was was

was was. It was a help and a hindrance because you know, I was I was certainly recognized, but I wasn't It wasn't by any means what what was going on, uh musically at that time. So it was it was an interesting journey. Here's a a loaded question that I didn't write down, but it's just popping on my head. Now, do you consider yourself a romantic? Um? Well, I always find the word romantic so interesting because you know, it

comes from Rome. Um. You know, I guess it's it's sort of about you know, it pertains to you know, like these kind of Germans and uh, you know, nineteenth century figures who started to you know, become these neo classic type of uh worshippers and and other things. But but but Rome itself was very very kind of unforgiving and you know, unemotional and kind of stoic, you know, as a culture. So I so I think in a strange way when I think of romantic I think of

two sides. I think, yes, uh, you know, yeah, I am emotional. I am you know, I am driven by my heart's desires. I am you know, swept away. But I'm also very disciplined and very very kind of um pragmatic and you know, dictatorial. But I need to be uh so, So yes, I think in the full sense of the word, thinking about the both of nineteent century Romanticism and also Rome the Roman culture. Um I I can kind of inhabit both. What is your process like

when you are writing? Is do you have a feeling that you want to express and go to a piano and kind of play it out of you or do you hear music in your mind and it's just a case of getting it down. I mean it's both. I I set you know, kind of uh, little traps for myself, you know, whether it's whether it's you know, having to write a song for musicals or you know, for for

an album coming up. But then but then coupled with that, I will, I will, I will be pretty awake and kind of um willing to receive messages from wherever, you know, and there's often like terms of phrases or little melodies that kind of strike me and that I know immediately that I've caught something by the tail and then I

gotta go home and you know, reel it in. So so it's it's kind of a combination of both of you know, being very organized about it and also being completely receptive and willing to you know, go with the flow. Is there an element of superstition involved at all? Oh? Yeah, no, totally for me. I mean, I do you know, I I have tarot cards, I I visit you know, grave sites, you know, I I do Uh, I have pilgrimages. I I I I respect you know, birthdays of of of

famous songwriters and stuff. So it's so yeah, I know, it's all whatever for whatever powers I could muster, I I I call in. I love that so much. That was something I loved about road Trip Elegies where you kind of talked abou out the relationship between geography and creativity and songwriting, and I thought that was so cool. How how a place can influence you, you know, so deeply, and you live in Laurel Canyon, Now that must be

very inspiring. No, it is incredibly inspiring. And I'm actually working on an album now that I'm finishing up, which is really more folk based. Um and yeah, I've been singing some of those you know, classic loyal canon numbers and and uh yeah, very very much. I'm trying to bring back this kind of sixties uh optimism that uh that we are sadly you know not and happening at

the moment. I've been loving some of your your covers that I saw Harvest recently, and your version of who Knows Where the Time Goes with Brandy Carlisle is amazing. So I love your your covers of that era Um, there's there was an interview you gave recently that was so interesting where you were talking about the song Poses and which is something that I had always assumed was autobiographical, and you're talking about how you wrote it about an

acquaintance or a friend. And it wasn't until years later that you realize you were sort of describing what was happening to you. And I wanted to ask, do you often find yourself learning things about yourself from your own songs? Um? Yes, I mean, I mean, I will say that, you know, for anybody who wants to know the truth about me and and who wants to sort of dive into the deep end of of my you know existence, it's all

in my songs. I mean it's everything that I write is very much um bound to you know, a personal um, either a personal experience or a personal view or a personal you know, trauma, whatever. And and it's kind of and I have found over the years now that I start to look back at the songs that I wrote, wrote when I was a lot younger, that that that in fact I was I was being um, very honest and very kind of UM. I was bearing myself in

this material and Uh. And that is the true kind of testament of of of who I am and what I what I believe in. Um, so it's uh, it's all in there and uh and that is uh you know I've made that that bargain, you know. Uh So, yeah, definitely. And yours songs are so personal, which is I think why so many people connect with them. At what point do you start thinking about the audience when you're writing or do you not? Is that? Is that limiting to you? Well?

I like to think what I The only thing that I like to think about is that if if the song is to be interpreted by somebody else, or if it's um, you know, to be approached in a way that the that the performer doesn't have any kind of connection to me or know anything about the backstory that that it does make sense. You know that it has its own kind of architecture. So I am cognizant of that. And I also think a lot about you know, uh you know, am I you know, ripping off someone else?

Or is this too similar to to something I've written before? You know it it doesn't stand on its own, so I I do. I am very cognizant and careful about that kind of stuff. I feel that a lot of creative people find it hard to to make a differentiation between their lives and their work, and which for good reason, because it's such a reflection of yourself and who you are, and it comes from such a personal place and whatever

you're going through. Other times, when you feel like that, when you feel like it's tough to distinguish between those two draw draw line. Um, I mean there, I think it's I think there are, but it's mostly in life. I mean in the sense that you know, I work all the time and I'm writing all the time, and I kind of live in this kind of cloud like

I live in this cloud, in this cloud like existence. Um. But then when there are you know, daily or or maybe maybe more weekly, shall we say, events that occur where you know, you've got to do your homework with with your your kid, or you have to clean up the house, or you have to, um go to the doctor, you know, whatever, you know, you you do? Um, you are you are. I am kind of woken up and and a bit brutally and taken out of this dream

that I'm that I'm mostly inhabits So it's um. But but but you know, it's it's uh, look, I'm a very fortunate man. I have I have incredible family and friends, and and I've done well in my career, so I can afford, you know, to live a certain way. So it's so it's it's all good. Uh, but yes, it can be a bit of a rude awakening when you have to you know, do you do homework with your eleven year old and you're like, oh my god, I

might not know this. Oh, Viva has got to have the best taste in music of any eleven year old. Oh my good, she has very good tasted music. She does. Actually, yeah, she loves Dolly Parton, she loves she loves um the rhythmex you know. She yeah, she has she has a good ship. And she also knows all the popular stuff that the kids listened to. So she's yeah, she's very very curious kid in that sense. Has she taught you any new any new music names yet or is that

kind of a few years down the road. Uh, She's tried to. But I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty um, I'm a bad stupid That sense of what's popular I've always been, you know, I I it takes me several years to realize why something is a hit, which is, you know, sort of not the point of the whole exercise. It's funny. In the last two years, I feel like, you know,

it's been so uncertain and stressful. I've been finding myself revisiting music I haven't listened to in decades, stuff I listened to in high school, just as kind of musical comfort food. Have you been been doing that kind of like we're talking about with Judy. I mean, I think there's some interesting stuff. I mean that now there's I mean little not I do like little Nazacs. I actually like the Weekend um, and I do you know that

it's not all terrible. Um. But that being said, I I don't feel that there's necessarily a kind of we're in a high point in terms of songwriting. Uh, you know, it seems more about, you know, the package that's being offered and sort of the dream that's being um attacked or or that they're attacking with. And uh so it's it's not it's not about the actual songs themselves. That and that's you know, but that but that's my territory. That's where I'm sort of, you know, staking my my

my claim. Last summer on the heels of your absolutely phenomenal and Grammy nominated I might add album un Follow the Rules, you released the track with Amber Sounds called techno Opera UM, which was a whole new sound for you. So cool, rufus does E D m uh? Where where did that come from? Is that something that you want to explore further? So that was a bit of a that was a bit of a pandemic pastime because you know, I worked with with Zen Freeman on that and uh

and um, and he lives down the street. So I think it was one of these things. I think it was one of these things where, you know, because there weren't there wasn't touring going on and and and we were, you know, homebound, that it was a good idea to just check out who lived in the neighborhood and who we could just hang out with, um, you know, safely and and and and make music with. So so I

think that that really stemmed from that whole situation. I mean, there's been so many incredible home concerts that you've shared with fans over the last two years. While we're all kind of homebound, and obviously you're keeping busy with music. Are there any other sort of new hobbies that you've discovered in the last two years. Uh, well, drawing, I've

been doing a lot of illustrating. Yeah, yeah, no. I I went to art school briefly in Montreal when I was uh, you know, in my twenties and so so uh yeah, I've taken that back up and and uh and it seems to have stuck. Um. I now draw regularly, and we used some of the artwork in the in the last album, but you will be seeing more of it in the future as well. Oh that's so exciting. Oh my goodness, do you have any how far I know, probably too early to say, but how far along is

this new album? It's almost we're mixing it right now, this folk record. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to even announce anything, but but it will be. I think it's going to come out around my birthday, which is uh and in about a year, so so there's still time. But it's um or or in an honor memberthday. I'll be fifty next year, um so so so yeah, it's around my fifty birthday. We're gonna we're gonna have a what is it a picking session? Who's

a picking? Oh? My good, it's rufous. I could talk to you all day. I my my last question before I let you go, and it's a corny one, but I'm genuinely curious. If you could have a moment with Judy and you could say one thing or what would it be. I I think I would just say thank you for inspiring me for so long and also for being this um, you know, endless um source of fascination, both both fascinating and inspiring. So yeah, I just had

a big thank you. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.