ITS Home Edition: James Bay

any new instrument is good for you. The New York Times talked with a neuroscientist, Daniel Levitton, who wrote a book called This Is Your Brand on music, and he explained that taking up a new instrument requires you to grow new neural pathways, and I think we can all agree we'd like as many new neural pathways as we

can lay our reins on. Anyway, if you did buy a new guitar, you actually had the opportunity to take some lessons from the guest on this episode of the home edition of the show, James Bay, who has been spending two days a week during lockdown on Instagram teaching fans how to play his songs. We started the home edition of inside the studio to let you know how the pandemic has impacted the lives of artists and how

it's affecting the way they make music. But this is just a great example of how one musician decided to combat the isolation we've all had to deal with by giving back. And James Bay told our Quarantine correspondent Jordan Runtog all about the album that he was finishing in Nashville just before Lockdown, working with the producer Dave Cobb, who has made amazing records with artists like Jason Isabel and Brandy Carlyle. James also talked about how his music

has taken a turn towards the positive. So if you enjoy the episode, be sure to check out the I Heart Radio podcast that Jordan's hosts. It's called Rivals Music's Greatest Feuds, and it's available wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, My name is Jordan run Tug, But enough about me. My guest today is a British singer songwriter whose soulful voice has been compared to the late great Jeff Buckley.

His explosive debut in earned him three Grammy nominations and global hits like Let It Go and Hold Back the River. Earlier this year, he went down to Nashville's historic r C A studio AD to work on his upcoming third album, and in July we heard a taste when he dropped his latest single, the sensual Chew on My Heart. I'm so thrilled to welcome the extremely suave Mr James Bay. Thank you, wow, kind words. Thank you for that wonderful introduction.

I'm good. Uh, it's a strange time. I'm sure we'll kind of stop there one way or another, but it's still nice to be talking to you. It's so great to have you. I mean, as you said, the last few months have been tough on all of us. How have you been staying grounded and feeling good? Um? Well, it was an interesting one because I got home from Nashville and twenty four hours later Lockdown began in the UK for the first time. So that was like, it

was such an amazing start to the year. I was writing right up until I went to the studio for this third record, and then I traveled over to Nashville. We did what we did, had a great time. I came home and that happened and there was a beat in time where everybody, including the music industry, kind of went can we go on? Can we go forward? Or is or is this kind of it? And are we going to have to weather quite an intense stall. But

I suppose I'm feeling good today. Obviously that was a few months back now that lockdown stuff started in anybody's life, definitely in mind here in the UK, and I'm feeling good because it was only a beat in the music industry that that that we felt like we couldn't go forward. Obviously, live is still very tricky playing show and stuff, but I've obviously been able to put out a new single despite the times, and that is really exciting. So I'm

feeling pretty good. That's so good to hear, you know, single two of My Heart, which is I don't think I've ever heard the expression of love phrase quite that way in music before I tell me about that song, Yeah, no one seems to have, and neither hard I. It's not I'm not like I haven't keep it a secret. Um.

I suppose that was actually a really exciting moment. It is I think for any songwriter and you feel like you might have coined a phrase like kind of for the first time, and there's no telling whether it will catch on at all, but it jumped out at me. I was sat with my guitar, singing around kind of melodic ideas, you know, any kind of version of la la la, and sort of shaping vowel sounds and never

quite saying complete words. And what sounded I suppose like a phrase too, or my heart came out and and it formed itself and I kind of in the room. I went chew on my heart that whatever was, I said to myself, and I remember this, well, I have to have it. I have to I have to turn it into And this is a pretty sort of textbook moment for any songwriter, whether it's a phrase you've heard before or not. If you're attached to it, if it

if it's attractive, then you want to work it. Unless you've already come to the sort of songwriting situation with something to say and something want to write about. The other way of doing things is this one where you go, okay, cannot apply to something real, something that's real for me, something that's that I really want to kind of get out in the form of song. And I was able to do that, and I'm really glad because it's a probably Zaney sort of phrase entitle and those ones are

always the best ones to sort of go with. There is an interview gave recently in the UK where you said, in the past, you've been writing from a place of sadness. I guess I'm thinking about your EP or my messy mind. What's responsible for this new bout of of musical optimism. Oh,

good question, because it's true. I found, even on Okay Asians where I was feeling pretty level and pretty up, I just enjoyed kind of drawing from a place of heartbreak and a place of sadness, and it's it's there's something that seems to sort of feel like it means so much in a songwriting environment, in a songwriting capacity, when you draw from that stuff. So this has been

a sort of surprise to me. I made all this music, and I only realized after when the lockdown thing began and I had this this suddenly natural moment to listen back that I've drawn from this kind of positive place. It was quite a private place as well. I've been with my girlfriend for thirteen years. We were kids really when we sort of got together. We were definitely friends

beforehand from the same small town. We've been through it all, through thick and thin, through the absolute roller coaster that that life is for anybody. But life has certainly been for me and for us through you know, the meeting record labels and touring the world and all of that stuff. And she's she's the rock, you know, I know it's She's not Dayne Johnson. She's my rock. Imagine she's U and I and I found myself paying tribute to that,

and I didn't. I'd never I can say. It's a private part of my life, so I've always been careful with it, but it couldn't help itself, and it came out through songs and I'm I'm in love with the music. So I'm really kind of pleased I did it, even though I sort of almost told myself, without ever telling myself in the past, that I wouldn't, you know, just for the sake of maintaining a bit of privacy. But stuff, when it's got to come out, it gets out. And

that has to be tough. I mean, you you've decided to be this public figure, and I imagine your girlfriend Lucy did not, and so is that is that difficult to balance that yes and no, you're you're absolutely right, I signed up for all of this, and you're absolutely

right she didn't. But as long as you were well aware of that, and I think that as long as we communicate that to each other and we're constantly and it's constantly kind of a conversation, then it becomes normal and un kay that I signed up for it and she didn't, and it's and it's and it's a much deeper understanding is had of that. It can be a strange one to navigate. It can be a difficult one to navigate. It's never completely straightforward. It's sometimes easier than

other times and sometimes harder. But I guess it's testament to how chinned into each other we are, and how we are one thing. You know, we are a unit, and it's testament to all of that that I'm able to at this point sort of let it into my work, because that's a real crossing of wires in many respects as well, but let it into my work in this way. It's never that's also never a kind of clean cut thing work in life. When you do what I do,

they blend, whether you want them to or not. And she also played, I've heard a big role in your own musical history. She encouraged you, right, yeah, if you're that massively. I mean to the extent that we met in this small town that we're both from, and I was playing in some bands, and like I was always in a band with my brother, and then another very very close friend of mine, Tom, who is essentially a brother. I mean, we're not blood related, but we might as

well be. And he still plays bas in my band today, and we've known each other since we're about three years old. It was a small town, tight knit sort of atmosphere, and we were playing and we all met when we were teenagers, and Lucy was excited to go and see bands in town like and and and sort of followed local music, and so one way or another we all became friends. And she always thought it was cool in

that respect. But there was a moment where I suppose there's a moment where because this is at the time when school was still a big real thing for everybody, and what's happening with that, and is someone going to get a job? Are you gonna, you know, how are we gonna There's that moment when you're a teenager, when your parents aren't giving you kind of an allowance or anything anymore. And it's all about like, well, there's a supermarket that's employing people, and it becomes all of that.

And as we moved through those years, I was always most hungry to hold onto playing music one way or another. What I'm trying to say is Lucy essentially got serious about it before I did. As far as me me wanting to kind of she she would say to me, would be sat in on a sort of week night watching TV and maybe like watching a gig or something

on TV, or see some music thing. Once again, I'd say, yeah, you know, I really wanted to be me one day so inspired and I could do that, And she would kind of turn to me and go, okay, well, there are a couple of pubs in town that have an open mic night happening right now. Why are you sitting on the couch. You know, if you're really serious, surely you should. And it was never it was always encouragement.

It was never like a negative thing. It was always like, you know, if you're serious about it makes some moves, go and go and do it. And that I mean, that's priceless, priceless sort of moment in my life. Really, at what point did you go from being somebody who loved music and a fan of music to actually writing it and making it yourself. Was there a decisive moment

or just sort of gradually happen. It gradually happened, but in a way, there was a decisive moment as soon as I picked up an instrument that I didn't just want to learn other people's stuff. Boy, is it vital that you're learning other people's stuff and working out how things are done and sort of opening your mind to

how you could do things yourself. But life has said about me and Tom and my brother Alex, like when we were little kids, well, when we were very young teenagers and just starting out going from listening to music our whole lives to start to try to play instruments. There was also other kids in town do the same thing. As you can imagine, every generation has loads and loads of kids trying it out. We were really one of the only bunches of kids who were interested in original material.

We were willing and I didn't even realize at the time. I only recognize in hindsight it's it's of course we have this kind of blind sort of confidence and faith in ourselves that if we turned up with something original, it was already awesome because it was original, you know. And I'm sort of so glad that nobody ever really got to us and said, you know it kind of it's not It's like it's like barely five out of ten, but good for you for trying. We believed it was great.

Everybody else was own lead. They could only handle doing covers because they thought it was safer for playing songs that people know, and there's something really wise about that. We, I guess weren't so wise. So you know, we did covers, and we really enjoyed playing covers to people, and obviously the reaction was always amazing, whether we were in a

bar or a pub or whatever. But it was from moment one that I and my brother in all this, we were willing to just make stuff up and call those our songs and then rehearse them and go and play them. There was no there was sentially no worry about that we were. We sort of thought, well, if if we want to be the Rolling Stones, that's what they did, so they've got to do it too. Now your your most recent album, as he said, it's filled

with uptimism. I assume that this was done prior this was Have you been working on the album in lockdown or is it completely done and ready to roll before before all this went down. The only stuff that we're doing in having to do in lockdown is is mixing. Usually i'd be in the company of the person mixing and and sort of putting my two cents in helping out. But um, I can't do that, can't travel in that capacity. So I started writing this album towards the beginning to

the middle of tens springtime. I think it's when I'd say I really sort of starting to get my head down and think about it and write for a third record. But um, so I was doing that all through the rest of and from the very beginning of and really

right up until the last week. There was suddenly like there was a there was a few conversations went on, and I was I was made aware that this brilliant man, Um Dave Cobb, who's a great producer in in in Nashville in America, UM was keen to work together and there was a window of time. Essentially, I thought, well, let's just go for it. I feel great about the songs. He'd heard some of the songs and felt great Aboutum, let's just give it a shot and see what happens.

There's always a little sort of element of kind of throw caution to the wind, sort of gamble a little bit and just try. Um So, yeah, I really rolled from writing right into Nashville and recording. Spent about five weeks doing that there, and we got everything done, even though for the last couple of weeks the atmosphere in the well in the world changed, and we felt it even in our bubble in the studio. Um So, it's it was all written very much before all this lockdown stuff.

But it's been interesting the ways in which it feels like it resonates with the current times as I listened to the songs now in this global context. What was it like working with Deve carb I know it sounds like he had to do a lot of tracking live and do a lot of full takes live. What was that like? Was that like all right, lights on, gotta hit it right? It really was like that, I think so, And it's I really am so grateful that I worked

with him for particularly for those reasons. Um Davis willing to you know, speaking of almost sort of blind faith and being willing to kind of go with your gut. Um. Dave's extremely experienced and well versed, but he still sort of wholeheartedly believes you just gotta play, and you play to that feels right, and you don't labor it. You don't. I mean, you can do fifteen takes, you can do twenty five takes and do fifty takes, and there's nothing

wrong with that. That's absolutely fine. Whoever you are, whatever you want to do, it's it's just as valid. But I love Dave's spirit is we've probably got it and takes two to four, but we'll do five or six just to feel okay, but then we're moving on and like that. So that was something I was really drawn to. Um and And and he obviously he goes and finds fantastic musicians. Um and I let him very much in

producer capacity obviously do all that stuff as well. Assemblar Band um the big one from a pop perspective, Whoever you are, whatever you're doing, whatever your music is, if if it's if it's in one way or another pot you will record to a click track and there's people out there listening who may not know what that is, and there's people who who will. It just means that

you are a dedicated tempo that doesn't shift. Usually when you play and you get to the chorus and the music and the momentum are driving things, you'll probably speed up a little bit when you get to the chorus, not too noticeable. But these days people play only to a click so that the tempo doesn't shift and you're locked in. There is something wonderful, and Dave is a massive advocate for this. There is something wonderful and that has so much spirit about not playing to a click.

Let the atmosphere lead and drive you. Let the spirit of a song, of a chorus um, you know, make you put your foot on the gas a tony bit more. And that was again, that was the sort of I was kind of following Dave into that place. It seemed like a darkness to me, but he knew it was okay, so I followed him and I really enjoyed working with him for that as well. I let me tell you, sorry, I've gone on about this one, but let me tell

you this. I went into the experience with Dave in Nashville knowing I was so up for that doing it, actually doing it, and sitting back and listening to take and noticing with my sort of twenty one century pop ears that like sometimes it's sped up in the I was really uneasy. I haven't even really sort of talked to Day about this yet. I was kind of uneasy, and I was I was trying to sort of dedicate

to be followed. And as I listened back today, as we're finishing off mixes, and it's the same moments, a sort of speeding up or whatever or slowing down, and it's all going very much with the flow. I love it. It's so it's so human, it's so real, and the momentum is so natural and it ebbs and flows so wonderfully. So I'm I'm I'm glad I trusted him and followed him. You know, he knows what he's doing. He's we've got

the saw on those things. And speaking of saw, you're in our c A studio A what was it tell me about that? I'm a huge music history both that what was that feeling like? So, for one, you're standing in a building that is about a meter and a half away from another building. That building is our CIA

studio B that place. Google that for a for a list of a historic list of Elvis Presley bangers, Like that's where Studio B is where all that stuff went down, and you could it's a bit of a museum these days, but you can go in there, and I think it's still used and it was very cool. We got a moment or two to step in there and so see what was going on. But Studio A, which gave me slightly gave me the sort of Abbey Roads Studio two fields, because it's this beautiful big room, one big open space.

There's a control room slightly separate, um, and there's this like big lovely staircase in the room, so you can sort of do all sorts of things with sort of microphone height. UM. Nowadays people take their laptop to any room on the planet. They open it up, they've got pro tools, they've got logic, they record and they can get exactly the same sounds wherever the other plugins. And

right back then we didn't they didn't have that. So the chat actings decided to build the same room, the spec being exactly the same around the world, like it was there like seven or eight of them. I think it was like four or five in America, three or four in the in in Europe. Um, this is the only one left. The one in Nashville is the only one left. All of the rest of them are knocked down.

But I remember when we went in at the very beginning, and I was just hanging out with Day for an afternoon, being in the space, talking about plans and stuff, and he told me a little about the history and he said, yeah, they've made all sorts of music in here. He said, probably about where you're standing. Sometime in the sort of late seventies, Dolly Parton was standing there and in the same three hours she sang down, I Will Always love you and Julian no pressure, no pressure. I was like, sure,

no pressure. That's just the rest of her life completely made. Um. So they made so much brilliant I mean, I'm just more recently. I'm sure you've heard this one. But there's a fantastic record called by the Way I Forgive You by Brandy Carlyle that Dave Da've made. That it won all sorts of Grammys, and it's a beautiful piece of music, collection of music, and that was made in that room as well. So loads of great stuff been made in the one of an incredible place. Crazy You've you've talked about.

There's a great video on YouTube of you talking about Eric Clapton's Laila being a huge influence on you as as a as a young student of music who is mother class A grad guy guns that really really inspired you when you were younger. There's lots There's lots and lots m from just this sort of guitar player perspective. It was Eric Clapton, it was Stevie oy Vaughan, it was Robbie Robertson in the band massively, The Rolling Stones

were huge for me. Later in my life, into my teens, into my late teens, I finally came around to the Beatles, but of course when we all start out, it's one or the other Beatles of Stones. Well, yeah, my dad was like, super duper a Stones guy, So I got to I got that way way faster. Bruce Springsteen all day long, like I love Bruce Bringsteen's music. And then and then it's it's I suppose as that's classic rock, but just from the same era. It's all the soul.

It's it's every Aretha Franklin record, it's every Ray Charles record. You know, all of that stuff. I just since I was like fifteen years old, I just did all I've listened to and to the extent that like, I go to that stuff in honesty more than a lot of the music that's been released in sort of my uh well in the twenty one century. But you know, there's obviously loads of phenomenal music from Kings of ly On

to Adele. It's all inspired by some of that great older stuff, and it's all very much for and from the present day. So it mixes and it changes. You know, it's good. It's what have you been listening to during lockdown? Because I don't know about you, but I've been listening to things that I haven't listened to since I was in high school, since that was a teenager. It's like, I want something familiar. Have you been feeling that way? I I one of the things one of the things

I've really enjoyed. This is a little bit more for for us folks over here, but I think people in America know a little bit about an artist called Paler, new teen Scottish guy. Oh my goodness, Like that was real big music for me when I was like thirteen, fourteen, I mean, he that's the first show I ever saw in a big, proper venue was his show in two thousand and five. I think, um, I've been loving, loving, loving him's new album. It's their third album. The guitar

sounds on that are everything. I mean, the songs are fantastic and the performances in the production and there's is such a great team of people. But just as a guitar geat, the guitar sounds amazing. Um. I there's also a great artist called Phoebe Bridges. Oh yeah, I love Phoebe Bridges music. She's brilliant. A big fan of her.

So all sorts of different things. I'm always going back to um again, it's some older stuff, like I'll always go back to All Things must Pass is a great George Harrison record, game changer, and obviously on Friday this is super fresh. But on Friday, Taylor Swift put a new music out and like I gave it a couple of rounds, you know, in sort of peripherally, kind of had it on the side of the room and like

it was cool. But I just was driving around earlier this morning, and that's something that Cardigan song, Oh that's serious stuff. There's a chorus in there that is forever. It's It's for the It's for the ages. So that hit me. That finally hit me this morning, sort of four days after it came out. A big fan of that incredible album. Have you been feeling productive musically during lockdown? Have you been writing? All right? Let me tell you so. Yes, it is the answer, And I'm all about sort of

pushing forward in that capacity. But I humbly right on a guitar or maybe a piano um and use my sort of phones kind of voice notes app. That's all I got. I don't know how to use pro tools. I don't know how to use logic. I've just don't. I wish I could, and I love the people that can, and they're amazing, but I'm just I haven't got this sort of patience or the or the brain for some of that degree of technology until I found it. And this sounds like such a massive plug. But this is

thing called the Spire by Isotope. It's like an eight track recorder and you sort of control it with an app. You don't have to do You control it with an app on your phone, and it's limited and I love it. For that, and you can it records like you know, their proper sound way. It sounds like files like it's only eight tracks, but you can. You can finish it up and do a little mix of it yourself, um and send it off to someone who's got pro tools or logic and they can do all sorts of things

with it. They can take the files and like totally sort of use them and like make them into a proper record. But I've really enjoyed as far as writing in lockdown, I've been able to sort of makes slightly fancier but still very homemade demos using this thing. And because I had an eight track when I was a teenager my brother, and this is my new version of that,

and I love it. I used superstitious at all. When you ride, is there like an instrument you always use, or a place in your house you always ride, or a time of day or is it just whenever? Good question. I'm only superstitious as far as this isn't a superstition. I just really I always trying to do something else because as an instrumentalist, you know when you play an instrument, is what I'm trying to say, And the better you get at it. You get into ruts like you always

pick it up. You always pick up a guitar and do something and eat or do something in g you know, on a piano you might jump on and always do something and see. And so I'm always trying. It's not so much a superstition. I just always try if I can to. It's hard when you're so familiar on an instrument to sort of step out of, you know, a habit. And then the other thing is like, I'm not very good at beginning anything or even committing to beginning anything in earshot of anyone else. I I sort of need

to be. I mean, I co write, and I do do it in that capacity, but there's sort of an unwritten, unspoken law that is we're both in the same vulnerable, fragile place of like anything could be anything, but generally I like to be very sort of solitary and solo when I'm dipping my toe into the pool, you know. Yeah,

I don't know, I don't. I like to be as sort of in the furthest corner of the house if I can, I was gonna say, yeah, you worked with Ryan Terror, Julia Michael As, you worked with some incredible songories. Tell me about working with Brandon Flowers. I mean, where do we start? Brandon? You know, he's I'm sort of I look at him as like a young legend. He's

kind of a he's already legend status. He's already sort of icon status, you know, in the way that I look up to and people twenty thirty years older than me look up to Bruce Springsteen, for example. Brandon is like a sort of new age one of those to me and I think to so many people. It was pleasure to get to write with him, and we had that gender going in that was nice. You know. It wasn't hey, are we're writing for you? We write for me? It was kind of less right and see who it fits. Um,

it felt like it was for me coming away. In truth, we ended up building off a verse idea that I had that I guess he thought was very much mine. I suppose lyrically it was kind of mine. Um, so he was okay with that, and it was just it's tough, you know, because when you're when you're writing with someone, you are equals. Everyone's equal in the room, and everyone's got to throw as much as they can at the wall.

See what sticks. But sometimes I catch are such just watch aga and throw stuff at the wall and that in that sort of hypothetic, pothetical way, because it's so cool to see that to me, slightly sort of legendary process. You know, he's done that for so many massive songs now, and he's co written and he's not kind of written. You know, it's very it doesn't matter. He's written all sorts of brilliant music. So it was inspiring, enormously inspiring. Um,

slightly overwhelming initially, but he was great. You know, he's a great guy, very very very accommodating, but very dedicated to the craft. So there's so much to learn. Whilst like in flight, you know, your sort of hands on the thing, but like you've gotta keep checking over your shoulders to see how it's down. At the same time, because he really knows will this be on your your upcoming third album or still figuring that out. I'm not

I'm not sure. I know it applies. I know this song applies to me and too, and and I do hope will be released. And there's no pressure from sort of any anybody in any other corner of the room. Um, but I guess I worked my mind works in a sort of these songs are a thing together. They should go out together, and I'm not sure that one fits in there, but but it applies somewhere, one wear another.

It will be heard with the latest with your Europe coming up, do you have released window for that schedule yet? No release date, no release date beyond the plan. So, um, that's that's exciting. But we were you know, the first thing has just come out. There will be another and then yeah, there's no there's no sort of plan beyond that. Yeah, And I think that's you know, as much to do with we we still music currently lives in a world where we're waiting to see how things open up again unfold,

you know again. Um, and how so no one wants to go racing forward, but no one wants to come lagging behind and have not sort of done anything. So it's it's it's a bit touch and go. But but hey, we live in a world where music can get put out still, so I'm doing as much as that as I can, and there will be in our something Obviously you can't be on the road right now, but you've been connecting with fans in this really cool way you've

been giving guitar lessons on Instagram. Let's put in the response. But like for that, that's so cool. Um, it's been very cool to do that. And I wasn't like mr social media before lockdown. I wasn't like a regular regular Instagram liver uh. And there was just a big whole formed when lockdown began, where interaction almost sort of dropped to zero. So you kind of I very much went, how can I? You know, can I? How can I?

It's social media is a big old echo chamber as well, where you know, not to criticize exactly, but you know, one person says something um sort of striking or alarming or or even just um provocative, and then the whole place goes nuts. And I I just wanted to come in a little more sort of um, unarmed and a bit more kind of like chill. Not a lot of chill on social media. There's not a lot of chill, you know, for better and for worse, Like there's not a lot. But I wanted to. I'm an entertainer. I

jump up on stage. I'm a bit of a storyteller. Maybe that's kind of what all I really can do and play music and play instruments. So I thought, can I apply that version of myself in any way? Because I'm a social media is a place for me regarding me. Social media is a place with my fans, um. So I sort of I asked the question can I give them anything? And I talked guitar when I was eighteen

years old for about a year. So I thought, maybe I can sort of break down in a guitar teacher capacity, how I play my songs, you know, how how I played them when I wrote them, how I played them live, how I played them, and I played them just solo acoustic. So I started doing that. I start doing these live lessons every day at five pm sort of London time. People seem to really enjoy them. We've done like twenty

four at this point um in like three months. So it's been cool to sort of interact and connect with everybody. And it's become as as as kind of legit a lesson as it's supposed to be. It's become a bit of a hang and it's nice that it exists between those two things. You know, do you still have your first guitar? I do. My parents is at their house. I don't actually have it with me in honesty, and it's fine. It's not like I don't like it. It's just I got a few more and yeah and yeah,

I don't know. I can't have them all in the same place because I don't have enough room. What's what's your main one now? Is it the epiphone century the century? Yeah? Yeah, I still it's still kind of the main one. In honesty, I have a few different things, kicking around and playing a lot. I have a Gibson j fifty fifty that I've had for a long time now that I play

a lot. It's not too long of a story, but Dave Cobb has so many fantastic guitars, as you can imagine, he's just every guitarist just dreaming, and I gravitated towards many of them. When I got to the studio, there was a Fender Jag that just looked great, so I picked it up and it felt great, and we were doing a song. I've got a great first take. I think the intention from my perspective is to do a few takes. But after I kind of played the guitar before we did the take, I plut me and Dave

st literally to like set guitar sounds good. And then we did the take and we finished it. The first take we finished it, everybody stopped and I looked at Dave like that sounded pretty like the guitar sounds great and that tape was pretty killer, and he just got up and walked over to it and he shook my hand. He said, that was the one in congratulations. That thing's yours. It's a three some birst Fender Jay and he just gave it to me. So that is currently at my

house and I'm playing it a lot. Oh yeah, good, it's a beauty. It's a beauty's that's incredible. My last question of the the early days of your your learning I play guitar. What was the first song you learned how to play? Do you remember the first one? I really sort of sat down and got my fingers around and learned was there was a few different things. There's a few different kind of basic riffs, like basic twelve

bar rock and roll sort of riffs. And then it was later, Oh yeah, let it was Eric Classon's later and I did that. I'm not I didn't nail it first time. I'm not like he checked me out. Later was the first thing I was able to play like that's overdo right. Yeah, I was never as you also, but that was the first one I really sort of sat down and worked out, um, you know, following tabs and watching videos and listening um later. Yeah, that was a not a bad first one, not a bad first

one at all. I love that one. I mean, like I say, like, it wasn't the first thing. I don't want to sort of sound like some sort of I learned how to do a few other things that weren't like classic riffs, but the first classic rifference was that one. For me. You've been active in the the Save our Venues campaign, which I think it's so important. I want to ask you a little about that. What that campaign means to you and how it's going. It means as much to me as my my sort of my arms

and legs mean to me. Um, Like, I have to have it. I have to have, well, the campaign I have to have because I have to have live shows. You know, I can't. There's there's really no artist that can fully exist without it's there. It's it's a vital part of being a touring and recording artist, particularly a touring artist, you know, to be to try and be

the whole nine yards. And I say that because these days, particularly sort of since I don't know thousand five ten, the kind of online overnight success kind of artists became a reality, and there's lots of different versions of sort of what that is. But you know, broadly speaking, you can arrive in front of the world via say YouTube or something like that, but a couple of videos of you doing a nice song, be original or a cover, and things can really kick off for for young debut artists.

But you need at some point if you want to, like I say, kind of go the whole nine yards and really sort of be a full, fully rounded artist. The team that you build around you and develop over time are going to say, okay, let's get you in a space in front of some people, on a stage,

during the corner of a bar whatever. It can be low key, but it's about that live atmosphere, those vibrations, that scenario that's very different to streaming yourself through YouTube or whatever via a webcam, and you and you need it, you we all need it. For me, it was less about that, even though my journey very much involved a moment where a record label saw a video of me on YouTube. It was a video of me on YouTube

playing in a bar to a few people. There's sort of a half empty bar, the whole slightly slightly depressing, slightly exciting atmosphere that is depicted in those things. I mean, like in real life much in YouTube videos is important. You know, if you can stay afloat in a bar for the people who are half for the people who aren't interested, you've really learned something. You make some strides. So the act of live performance is vital to me and to all artists. And it's not about getting on

a stage in an empty room. It's about having people in that room with you and sharing that experience in the moment. There's nothing like it then there never will be. And I was lucky. Recently we took a baby step from Lockdown two. I got to go into a venue, an empty venue, and stream broadcast myself doing show to

as many people as wanted to watch. It was free, but there was a donate button on the screen and they could watch me play songs to them, but from this completely empty venue, on a stage with proper lights and everything, and they could if they wanted to donate to the Save Our venues campaign. We raised like on the night we raised just over four thousand pounds, but it's still going up so um. You know, every little helps and it was nice to do it. It's nice

to be in a real venue. It just sucked that there was no one in there. It must have felt good at least being back. Yeah, I mean this whole time, it's gonna be hard for so many different ways of me, especially for a touring musician who wants to get back out there. But has there been any kind of a silver lining of this period for you at all? I mean in the UK? I mean, and it's the government in the UK said stadiums will be full in October. We were like, okay, tell us more. They were like no,

I can't tell you more. Interesting. They're like, okay, what do you What do you mean then? And what they really mean is that's what they're gunning for, that's what they're going for, that's what they're raising, that's what they're working towards. Um, and everything has to go right between

now and then. Uh silver linings you know again, like the next best one after that is really that you know, agents and promoters are looking at spring te quite realistically, as as as long as progress goes at the rate that has been happening at, you know until then. Um, otherwise it's tough, you know, because you put more and more people in spaces right next to each other together, breathing on each other, singing at the top of their lungs, etcetera, etcetera.

You know, we can sort of get into the science of it, but neither of us, our scientists, it gets it gets Corona difficult eventually, you know. So there's only been so much progress, but of course, behind the scenes, way far away from this conversation, there is sort of scientific progress going on, and we're very hopeful that that brings us like gigs sooner and sooner. Thinks ross my last question, and that's how I always end these episodes, and so curious to hear what you have to say.

If you could stap your fingers and have lockdown, beyond virus has done, everything is completely back to the way it was. What's the first thing you would do? Trips? You want to take people you want to hug. It's a good question because you know, you know people I want to hug into it. And my answer changes from just doing a live show to like, oh yeah, there's some people I probably should hug and I want to hug. It's not even a specific place, it's just all my

loved ones. I go to somewhere with them where, like all the eternity before coronavirus, we didn't have to think twice about leaning on someone's shoulder, throwing an arm around the waist, embracing one another, high fiving, you know, dancing together. I just just that, and I just I just I just don't want to have to. I just go to a place where we don't have to think twice about any of those things, and take me there. That's just where I go. It's it's it's no in particular, it's

just with all my people. You know everyone has that people. It's just with all my people. That's a beautiful answer, James back, Thank you so much for your time or day. It's been of such a pleasure. Love always, man, Thank you for having me. You're the best, sir. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio Home Edition,

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