Ben Rector

somewhat mystical properties of song. Now, unlike so many of us, he channeled this rekindled passion into a multimedia extravaganza, appropriately called The Joy of Music. This ambitious project and compasses an album, a multipart short film, and an elaborate tour.

For help, He's enlisted a truly mind bending array of talent, branching from Kenny G and Snoop Dogg to Taylor Goldsmith of the folk rock band DAWs, the One Voice Children's Choir, and even the talented folks at the Jim Henson Creature Shop. The album's due out March eleven, but he's already dropped the first three songs or chapters as he thinks of them,

all are imbued with his infectious optimism. Dream on, the opening track, urges listeners to reconnect with their childhood ambitions and offers a welcome reminder that it's never too late to live your dreams. Supernatural, which features Grammy Award winning jazz icon Dave Cause, is an exuberant meditation on the magic and mysteries of music. Then there's Living My Best Life, a surprising title for a song written in the midst

of global lockdown, but it's thankfulness is sincere. In fact, it's a necessary lesson in gratitude for even small things like sunrises, family, and yes, even ottomans. I'm so happy to welcome the truly delightful Ben Rector. I hope you enjoy our conversation. I mean, your latest album is called The Joy of Music. Now, this isn't just an album. This is a whole, a whole extravagans, the whole production. We've got a record, a short film, and hopefully a

tour on the horizon. Hugely ambitious. How did this all come together? You know? Um, it's the first time that instead of kind of doing a lot of things at once, I was really just being creative because like as stuff as you know, moved forward, there hasn't been a time where I was ever truly off. Even in seasons where I wasn't like quote unquote on tour, I was still

doing one offs and that kind of stuff. And so, uh, when the pandemic happened, my wife and I also had twin boys a year and a half ago, which is just a total cluster. It's it is insanity. So I mean we were we were like full on like not doing anything, and so I had, for the first time had the ability to just like really focus on creativity with no agenda. It wasn't like I gotta get this

done because the tour is coming up. And so what ended up happening was I kind of got to return to why I started making music in the first place, and like that kind kept growing on itself and then looked up and there's like we're doing a short film and you know, all of that kind of stuff. So it really, man, it was just like for the first time I got to be a kid again with no expectations. And I was also like, man, like this is my

like one wild and precious life. Was just like do something crazy and fun because it's been I've done it for a long time professionally and be easy to lose a little bit of that like kind of spark, and then also honestly to be afraid of failing, because like, once the ball is rolling, you're like, I could mess this up, Like this could go poorly. I could look stupid.

So I was just like, I don't want to look back when I'm sixty and be like, oh, I was real nervous, but I I did induced if I was like, we're making the movie, We're doing all this stuff, why not you know what I mean? Oh, totally right on. I mean, I'm so interested in in the film component. I went to film school myself in addition to being a huge music fan. So the intersection of those two

things is really interesting to me. Did the music dictate kind of where the narrative would go or was there a story you wanted to tell and just using music to help the narrative along. That's a great question. Um it really everything kind of like congealed together and grew together. Nothing was really like this is what everything's going to be about, and I kind of found the common thread and the songs I was writing of joy. But I wasn't like and I'm gonna make like a giant red

character and make a movie about it. It was just kind of like I think one of the earlier songs in this batch of songs called Supernatural, which is like kind of like fun like saxophone, it's kind of crazy, and I was like, dude, I should totally dance to this song, which I am terrified of, like mortified. I don't like dancing at weddings. I'm just like that's not my thing. And so because I was like, I I need a function at weddings that's not on the dance floor. Okay,

I'm gonna get behind this thing, Okay totally. And so but I just like deep inside, I was like, the music video for this has to be dancing, Like it just has to be because there's no other way to do it. And I think like that kind of like started the ball rolling and I kind of springboarded off of those ideas, and the idea just kind of grew, and like you know, as anything creative goes, you start sort of like building a contraption. Then you kind of like build another room to it and a backdoor into

it and whatever. It really was all together. It wasn't like everything is this narrative. And as as as things got more honed in, uh, you know, it became clear what it was going to be. Oh, it's so cool. I mean, I well, first of all, I do also want to say, you know, when it's very apparent when you look at me that I don't want to dance, that did not come across looking at you. So I just it just from from one non dancer to another. I want to say, it looked great, but I appreciate

that I was. It's embarrassing how hard I tried. I like, I worked really hard to look that average. I really did. Average is what we shoot for. Like, I totally get that. Oh man, I mean so you mentioned the red character. I mean you got to work with my understanding at least a group of really heroes of mine. The Gym Henson Creature Shop. What was that like? So? Uh, it

was totally insane. And this is I mean, like so much of the last year of my life has been this where I'm just like, what if we asked X, y Z person or group to be a part of this and people kept saying yes, which is incredible. So I kind of started thinking it would be cool to have kind of like a almost a mascot, like a lovable giant character to embody Joy, which is what the record is about. And um, obviously Henson Creature Shop is

the best in the world at making that stuff. Talk to them and I was like, man, I don't know if we can really pull this off. It's you know, the lead times intense, it's pretty expensive. Talk to some other people, learned a lot about building mascots and realized that Henson was the only group that could do it. Um, And what actually happened is crazy. And you know, I don't know if you'll pick up what I'm putting down here, but basically, the whole deal with Joy is that Joy

is like a real thing. It's like nobody made it. And so what really happened with Henson was, uh, we start making it. I did some sketches, their guy did sketches. They start building this huge traption and then we look up towards the end and they're like, this is gonna be too hard to do. But you know what's really crazy, there's a guy that looks just like this and he lives in Nashville. You should just give him a call. His name is Joy, and I was like, that's insane.

I wish you just told me that upfront, and so end up calling Joy. He lived in Murphy's borrow and now he's in the videos. But Henson did help me kind of cast cast Joy. If you will, you know what I mean, I I do know what you mean. There is I don't know if winks really translate in the audio, but yeah, hopefully to folks listening right there, I think I think they'll get it, you know, yeah, yeah,

I mean it looks so good. I know you recently had sort of a combo listening party and premiere for the record in the film at the at the Franklin Theater in Tennessee. What was the response there to that? Man? It was it was just like such an enjoyable experience. Um, and it has felt crazy to me that I've been sitting on you know, if anybody listening is like, I know who you are, which is totally fine. This is

all pretty out of the box for me. And so I've been sitting on all of this for like, you know, almost a year, feeling just like I can't believe we're doing this. And so to get to share it and it's like full form with people and just get to watch them experience It was just like such a pleasure for me. And usually, like if I'm playing a show, I enjoy it, but it's pretty intense, like I'm like really in it, trying not to mess up. I'm pretty

aware of like a lot of stuff. And this was so fun just to get to watch people see it and like other people will have that experience at some point. But with what social media is, what with with what streaming is, we can't just dump, you know, a thirty minute short film onto Instagram. That's just not gonna work.

You kind of have to like meter it out. So it was really special for me knowing that like we weren't gonna get to experience it like that again for a while, and to get to like watch it in a movie theater and listen to the record, it was just like so incredible, and it was like I felt like the everything coming to fruition, all these crazy ideas I'd had to the past year to get to like watch people experience it was really special. Oh that's got

to be a peak moment. I mean it was speaking of of doing these things live and what's the live component kind of look like I'm almost picturing like those big review shows like Joe Cocker and Mad Dogs and Englishman or the Icon Tina Turner Reviewer or something like that,

How's it gonna go? Totally so, and it's it's a little bit of a bummer because like what I really wanted to do was totally um blend the aesthetic of the short film, which a lot of it is shot in this like large psych space like a it looks like an infinity wall. It's like curved white walls where it looks like you're in space. And if we were in theaters this time, it would be easy because we would just take like a huge backdrop that's white and

curve at the stage. But we're playing a lot of outdoor venues and you can't do that because the wind it'll blow back and forth. And so I kind of emmbracing. Like one of the early models I had for some of the aesthetics of the record was like visually was like Lawrence Welk Show or whatever, kind of like the

old kind of funny whatever. And so we started we started working on like the lighting designs and stuff, and I think it will just be like a big classic show we're not going to bring out For a second, it was like, are we gonna do video wall? And I feel like every tour that's going out right now has video wall, And then the real deal is like you have to make so much content to use it correctly. And I was just like, I just want to put on a great show and not have it just be

like watch this movie again. Um. So basically it'll be like pretty classic concert lighting. We'll have a couple of cool tricks, Like we're gonna make you know that thing in New York. It's like people kind of hate it. It's uh would love. It's like the red letters um utu. We're making like essentially the the font and like logo of the album into a giant red sign and it'll like pop up behind us. So it'll be like a big like physical thing. Oh cool. Yeah, Oh man, that's

all I mean. I'm thinking about. You see the what was it called the Summer of Soul. I think it was that concert that was up in Harlem in that Yeah, that great like kind of rainbowie backdrop and everything. Yea of all this classic classic performance backdrops and stuff. It's it's so cool, and it's such a it's like such a specific like character and vibe you can kind of

like tap into. That's always been important to me is to like I feel like when something feels familiar, it's like sort of like sneaks around the gate keeper of like what you're You're like, oh, I know this, you know what I mean. It's just like your childhood. Yeah, totally, and I love that feeling. So Earlier this month, in January, you you released I think three singles all at once. I think they were the first three tracks of the album. What made you choose those three? Were they sort of

like the first three chapters in a book? Yeah, so basically, And it's so funny. Man. I feel like in the past year two years, it just feels like nobody knows how to release music anymore. There's people surprise dropping albums, there's people really seen a song a month for like

twenty four months, like I don't. It's changing rapidly. So basically, my whole thing was like, Okay, you have to in streaming, no matter how good the songs are, if you dump too many songs at once onto a platform, the first x amount are going to get a bunch of streams, and over the next few years, the last few songs are just gonna be like way less and I didn't

want to do that. But also, this record is a record, it's like a whole thing, and I didn't want to just be like, here's one song, enjoy it, here's another song. So I wanted to like create a little bit of context to let people know, like, hey, like these are kind of the foul poles of the record. It's like this is we're going this far, this way, this far, that way, and kind of like to let them know, like, hey, this is a different thing than I've done before. Get

excited about it. Um So yeah, it's it's the first three songs in order on the album, and the short film is actually the first six songs in order. It's like one or two for five, six and then the last song. But it's like if you just watch the films straight through, it's those songs. So the first three songs of the record are almost like the first half

of the short film. I was really taken by by the song Supernatural, which is, you know about those beautiful moments and connections and occurrences that feel part of something greater, a bigger force, or a grand plan. I want to ask you, is there a supernatural element to songwriting? You hear a lot of artists say that. You know, it's a lot of cases they don't know where the melodies come from. They don't know where the song comes from. It just you're plugged into something. Is that how it

works for you? I think so everybody that I've met that I admire who does like creative work sustainably at a high level, it feels like there is that sort of magical, supernatural like something just like lightning strikes you and it's just like stuff's happening. But it also feels like you have to pair that with almost like a professional sports like approach, where I think a lot of

people view creativity as this only magical thing. It's like, yeah, man, you just wait around and lightning strikes and you're weirdly

attuned to that. But man, like everybody, like I said, everybody I've met that I like really admire after you push past whatever, like the near they have past that is like a professional athlete, and they're like, I write every day, I'm like deep into this, And so I think it is both like anytime I'm just trying to grind it out and nothing's happening, I usually need to

step back a little bit. But anytime I'm waiting around too much, that dies out too So to me, like I always treat it when I'm home like a job, like I write five days a week all the time. I'm just like trying to sharpen my tools so that when I do get a lightning strike, I can carve out exactly what it's supposed to be with no loss. So like it's a little bit of both for me. And there definitely are moments there's a number on this record that we're just like, wow, that just like plopped

out of thin air. But for every one of those, I'm just like sitting right here at this keyboard just

like writing for a long time every day. And so that's a pattern that I've seen replicated with a bunch of successful people, and I haven't run into that many people that are like, no, man, I don't do it like that at all, And they're different approaches kind of, but like to me, it ends up kind of being like a sport where it's like you could look at Tiger Woods or Phil mickleson or whoever and be like you're just so gifted, and they're probably like, I mean

kind of but also like I'm just pounding golf balls, man, So it's a little bit of both for me and for a lot of people. I think, what's that line. I think it was Jack Nicholas, the golfer who said, uh, yeah,

the more I practice, the luckier here I get. That's right, And that's and and and it really is true because like I think a lot of that stuff that feels like it's just coming out of thin air is actually like just your reflexes kind of like stepping into what's happening where like and and and they're definitely definitely is a very real, kind of like strange, otherworldly thing where it's just like I have no idea why something would

just like PLoP out of nowhere. That happens, but he usually doesn't happen a lot to people that aren't working on it, Like it might lightning might strike someone once, and if they're not really working on it, probably never gonna strike again. You know what I mean. You just gotta pay those neural pathways. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Did you read I'm I'm an absolutely ridiculous Beatles nerds,

so please shut me up. At any point, did you read the new Paul McCartney lyrics book where he goes? I think he picked something like a hundred and fifty of his songs. I have that book right by the Steve Turner one too. Okay, So I got that book for Christmas, the one you're talking about. I haven't read it yet, but I know I did just finish Get Back though, probably three or four days ago. So the Beatles are my favorite band. I'm just all about it.

I love that you are too, but I haven't. I haven't haven't dove into that book yet, but I want to. It's sitting on my shelf staring at me. What did you think of Get Back in terms of a lot of people? I I play music, I don't write it. But for people that I know who do write it, they I've heard a lot of people say that there's never been a more honest depiction of the creative process.

Then go Back totally, I think, so, man, I have so many thoughts I get Back, but I would distill them to like, I definitely feel like that's real where it's and in a weird way, I think people that don't maybe you don't write songs all the time or probably like this is magical. I can't believe I'm watching it.

And it was almost frustrating for me because I'm like, close the loop, you're right there, just keep going, And like it was interesting to see how um loose they are with everything, like so just like still kind of learning the chords, still kind of figuring stuff, like very vast changes from take to take, and now everything is so like dialed in. But I feel like I feel bad saying this, but I wanted to be like someone just be like focus, guys, just ten minut it, stop

playing other stuff, just like really try to finish this. Um. I think it was a very accurate depiction. So cool to see, you know, let it be come together here McCartney doing like the Long and Winding Road. And then it was also unpopular take. Kind of interesting to see some of it and be like, this isn't that great, Like it's it's great. It's great because it's the Beatles, right,

it's great because you're seeing history. But I always think if you remove the context from it and you were like, hey, like this isn't the Beatles, Like these are my buddies from Des Moines? What do you think of this song? I'd be like, it's fine, I guess like kind of

a cool vibe and very few moments of that. But it was crazy to see, like you know, all time great songs next to some songs you're like, that's fine, that's okay, um, But I love getting to see it, and I love getting to see just how accidental and how like loose they were with it. That's like a good thing for me to learn. Yeah, I mean keeping

that element of fun. I feel like I really it to cease, like a sociologist take or real psychologists take on like either personal dynamics at play and creativity and how that goes hand in hands. And I think, realistically, man,

I think that's for me as a creative person. My biggest takeaway from the whole thing was like, hey, the importance of always including fun and like inspiration and leaving room for stuff to grow, because I can tend to want to like tighten things up, like like let's sew this thing together, and they're just like we're not even gonna finish this, We're gonna play this other dumb song. And some of that left the door open for pool stuff to happen, and I mean, obviously the best band

of all time. Like something to learn from that, I mean a lot. Always it brings you back to your record the joy of music, I mean, has has the last two years now, I guess I gotta say has that I feel like, well, we've all been forced to sort of take our joy where we can find it. Um has it changed the relationship to music in any

way the past too years. This is gonna sound so like kumbaya and silly, but like it has fundamentally changed my relationship with music because I think I was, I was pretty burned out, Like I'm so thankful to get to do this as a job and thankful that anybody

cares about the music that I make. But there have been a lot of times where just the reality of like so much travel, so much pressure, so much like managing of different people and different things just kind of put it put me in a place where I was like I had accepted, like I may never feel like I felt when I was like eighteen about this again, but I'll enjoy the parts of it I can. And for the first time in the last you know, a

couple of years. Maybe the last eighteen months. I feel like I was able to stumble back into that where I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm doing this because I love it, and I'm like excited to wake up every morning and to work on this, and I feel almost no fear of failure. I'm just like, let's just do this. Let's make something that's just like wonderful

and beautiful people to enjoy. And I if you had asked me that question three years ago, like could I feel like that, I'd be like, no, man, you can only feel like that when you're just starting out. And it's been such like a beautiful journey for me because that's not I'm super pessimistic. I'm pretty critical, Like yeah, totally, and so that's it. It was so fun to get to just like, uh, jump into like the pool like head first, to be like, yeah, dude, let's do this,

Like it was really really enjoyable for me. I am, given what I know of you and your music and the songs on this record, I'm surprised to hear you say that you you're pessimistic. I mean, you've got the track living My Best Life on there, which again was not something I mean here hearing that title out of context, it's not something that you would imagine would have been written in Lockdown. I know it's real. I mean, listen to the lyrics. It comes from a genuine place for you.

It sounds like yeah, and I kind of what what I like about that is like I feel like, um, there's some artists who can just be like stand back and watch me be like so cool and look at like how like mysterious and awesome. I am, I don't really have that like card to play, but that's just that's not something I'm good at. But I am like, hey, maybe I have a unique viewpoint of being a pretty normal person. But like I don't hear a lot of

people talking about that stuff in pop music. And that's really like a large portion of our lives is not like mountaintop experience are not mountaintop experiences. They're just kind of like finding peace where we can, find enjoy where we can. And so living my best life for me was a celebration of like, honestly a hard season, like Hillary and I are raising three tiny children in Lockdown.

That's brutal, and so it was kind of like a weird realization for me, I was like, the happiest that I've been as an adult has been in the past two years. And if you zoomed out and you showed someone like game film of my life and it was like, hey, well he's on a tour bus right now and playing on TV and concerts and all this exciting stuff, and now he's like changing diapers and walking the neighborhood with the kids. Where do you think is happier everybody would

be like on the tour bus. But in reality, it was weird to see that, like my me, living my best life is actually like being in a routine, being a dad, like getting to work on stuff that I love, and so like I it was sort of like a weird backdoor into that concept where I feel like people usually mean it in sort of a mountaintop way, and I'm like, hey, actually, weirdly, I think for a lot of us, our best life is probably like found where we are and not in like some aspirational thing, you

know what I mean. Oh yeah, I mean that's something that I feel like, you know, some people spend their whole lives and they don't get to that place of totally acceptance too. I mean, that's that's that's a reason for joy right there. Totally. Oh, man, I mean it really does. It comes across in so many places on

this record. I mean, as you said, I mean you haven't been able to really sit still since you're what eighteen too, So I mean just I'm glad to hear that it was a fruitful time for you creatively, because it really seems like, you know, you want to overdrive. Thanks man, I appreciate that. Thanks, And I feel like you're your your your your questions are wonderful. I'm like, you're very good at this. Thank you. Well you. It's

a pleasure to talk to you. Some things I want to ask you, man, I guess a big one is you know, who are some people who uh and who taught you about the joy of music? I mean you you mentioned the Beatles obviously, Who's some other folks, either in your life or just composers that you admire? So I feel like this is always a funny question because I feel like what most musicians usually do is like reach for the most obscure stuff that you've never heard of,

and you're like it was all about Lightning Hopkins. No, no, not like yeah right, um? And I think that's genuine for a lot of people. But there's a lot of people that I listened to. I don't want to be like you listened to Jack Johnson when you were sixteen. I know that, Like I I know that you did that. So my my, I'll give my like honest, not trying to be cool guy answer. I did listen to a lot of old these music, but not like super obscure.

There was an oldies radio station in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where I grew up that was like a lot of seventies music. It was like imagine that station, that's what it was like Three Dog Night, Dubie Brothers, Chicago, etcetera. Uh, that stuff. And then when I learned a little bit more about music, I started really liking kind of that era and a little bit before then of singer songwriters, so like James Taylor, Billy Joel, I love the Beatles. Those would probably be

like Desert Island Records for me. But I also just really liked like any kind of like fun pop music, like I think I to me, it's almost like a high coup or like Swedish design or something where it's like minimal but really good. Everything has a place and so like a lot of like anything Max Martin has ever done. I'm just like, wow, dude, just like he is like a poet pretty much, and I understand that's

a specific kind of art. And I like a lot of weird stuff too, Like I I dig like deep musical stuff, but for this stuff that I write, I tend to like sort of accessible stuff. And so I would say my influences and places that I find joy music that would probably be sixties and seventies era singer songwriters. And then also like I like, you know, some pop music just kind of depends and not not everything. Um, but I did that, And I mean I like jazz stuff too, I like hip hop, Like I kind of

like a lot of stuff. But I always want to make a point to answer that question honestly and be like, well, there's this guy from nineteen fourteen and he recorded on the wax turntable. There's like, not I only do that. I only listen to my music and cylinders. That's like that's where the best stuff comes from. Yeah, I mean, but there's a craft for that. I mean, I know I'm I'm sounding like you know, angry old man here, but you know, all that brill building stuff. I mean

they we we. I mean, it's what what you're saying about. How like you know you you approach it every day, whether you want to or not. Five days a week they would show up and you know, Goffin and King would bang out, will you love me tomorrow? Or you know, I mean all the people that work with Phil Spector and all the Wall of Sound guys um whose name

is m embarrassingly blanking on right now. But um, yeah, it's so that that era is so interesting to me because it was, um, I guess it was just melody first and as opposed to now, where you can't have all you can build a song around cool sounds or

a cool hook. Maybe yeah. And I'm so interested to see where music will go in the next like ten years, because I feel like, if you zoom way way out, we've essentially continually removed as much nuanced as we can, where it's like the classical music, where it's like, you know, a hundred instruments and all sorts of crazy chortal movements and stuff, and then like you know, whatever standards and jazz and then like sixties, seventies stuff, eighties, nineties, two

thousand's and now like and I'm I do not necessarily associate less nuance with like less artistic quality, but on some level, I'm like, we kind of gotta get more nuanced again, because there's some stuff where there's like truly like we've we've distilled it to like a rhythm and a lyric, and I'm just so interested to see like where it will go from here, because like I am almost like I don't know if it could get any more condensed, and I'm fascinated to see like where it

will grow. And and not say that all that's not all music, that's not whatever, But I think even if you just like charted out songs, like if you look at like the top ten songs of the year and go back every year, you're gonna see a graph that's like there's like less complication quarterly for sure. And again I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it's just interesting to wonder where that will go, you know. Oh absolutely.

I was lucky enough to speak to do you know the social media account dust the digital Yeah, I followed, he's amazing. I was lucky enough to speak to the guy who runs it, who's an archivist in I think out of Georgia, and he was talking about a theory that him and his friend we're kind of mulling over about how every thirty years you kind of get a

new dominant genre, dominant force in music. I mean, starting with jazz in the twenties, to rock and roll in the fifties, to hip hop in the round around, and then they got to and they were trying to figure out what is it, what's the new? And they said, well, it's everything with a capital E. You know, it's just it's it's all because the streaming services and everything that you now kind of have access to everything and all so many sounds like what's that group of a hundred

guests and stuff? Where it's just like everything they do it just sounds like a mash up in a way. Um. I thought that was an interesting point of view. I mean, even just I mean thinking about the joy of music. I mean, I haven't checked this, but I'm hard pressed the name another album that would have a gospel choir, Kenny G and Snoop Dogg on it. I mean, just the different I'm just blown away by how style realistically variedatings.

I mean, is that when you're working. Do you hear those arrangements in your head when you're beginning to to craft out a song at the piano or whatever is you where imagine the piano or or did you just think, you know what, I've done a music in this style, I'm gonna try to do this song and this style over here because I've never done that. It's It's yeah, it's usually kind of um. At this point when I'm writing,

I'm kind of like arranging at the same time. And the guy that I work with usually our workflow is kind of like, um, He'll sort of let me run with the ball, like wherever I want to go. He's super fast and super talented. And if I ever get stuck and I'm like, hey, like what do you think about this? Um? But generally like if I'm as soon as i'm writing, I'm kind of like, um, Like the voice memo I have when I started writing Best Life was like me beatboxing and singing kind of with the

implied chords under it. And so it's like immediately from that drum groove and from those chords, it's gonna be kind of Motown East. So like I'm coming in with a pretty like, hey, these sounds, this palette, this instrumentation. Um. And obviously sometimes anytime you bring an idea like into physical reality, there's like a little bit of loss and so you're like, oh, this didn't work. I thought it did, so you know, we'll switch it up a little bit.

But yeah, I usually am kind of arranging um while I'm riding in my head um. And with all the stuff you mentioned, like the features on the record or whatever, really I was just doing like whatever sounded like the most fun, Like I was chasing inspiration. And when I was working on Sunday, immediately I was just like, I want Snoop Dogg to be on this song. I don't know if he's gonna say yes, but he would just

be so perfect. And like, obviously there's like that's cool and could maybe be helpful to do the song with Snoop Dogg, but for me, it was really just like it would just be so fun if you could do that and the same. Kenny G was the first feature that we got on the record, and that was as

I was writing that song the sacks Badada Dada. It was a piano line and I was like, let's like mock that in with the saxophone, and um, we had a guy actually play it, and then I was like, dude, what if we got Kenny G to play on this? And he was the nicest guy in the world, like the coolest guy ever. But with all that stuff, it was just like it was never like I'm gonna come up with something to see if I can get this person on the record. It was like, we've got a

Sacks part of this song. Now, Kenny G. Would be the most awesome sax player to get. Let's try to get him. Um. That's just kind of how that stuff came together, and part of the part of the joy of making the record was usually off the block out time to record all play shows and stuff, and I'll be like, Okay, in two months, I'm gonna go record with this. Since John and I were both just home.

He live in Minneapolis, John Fields. Um, when I would start writing a song and felt like I was onto something, I'd text him and I'd be like, hey, man, like can you work right now? He'd be like yeah. So like in thirty minutes, we're on Zoom sharing the pro tool screen recording the song like that fast, so that it was like start to finish like you know, there were a couple of songs that from like concept to like fully done was like thirty six hours or something

like we could just like chase right after it. And not all of them were like that, but instead of having to like keep all of that in your head and then go try to do it all at once, it was basically just riding the same wave of writing in production, which was super fun for me because I got to like be in each place and finish it, you know what I mean, just keep that spontaneity to

it too. I imagine. Wow. I mean I speaking of of features, I got a fan boy for a moment over Steve Winwood, who was on your track over the Summer Range ro over that overloaded Hammond Saud he had on all those Spencer Davis records. That is just the best. I've been trying to chase that for years. So that was My dad listened to Steve Winwood when I was growing up, and when I was like probably ten, I was kind of like, oh, this is like dad music whatever.

And when I got a little older, I was like, no, this is actually Steve Winwood is like one of the best musicians ever. But I didn't know until I was in college that he was on give Me Some Love in the Spencer Davis group. And when I learned that that he did that as a teenager, that's what catapulted him in my mind from being like you're like super awesome to being like you're like one of the most

awesome ever. And the exact same thing happened with that where I was just like, you know, in the in that writing demo, I knew we needed a little bit more of a lift, couldn't figure out what it was, and I was like, man, really would be great to get some B three um, And I was like kind of starting the theme of like doing things that I think would be fun just because they're fun. I was like, what if we got Steve Winwood to play B three?

And so he did it. It was incredible. He sent me like a video of himself being like thanks for putting me on that record. Then I was like, oh my god, but it was it was just like such a one moment for me. And like I I've seen him in concert and he's actually mentioned in the song, which is kind of why we thought it'd be cool

to have him. But he's mentioned in the song because I wore a tour T shirt that I bought when I saw him in concert at the Rheman and we were looking for lyrics and one of the guys saw my shirt he was like Steve Winwood and I was just like, yeah, totally. But that was born the whole that line of the song was born out of me, just like being a fan, which is super fun. Oh man, he's the best. What a what a moment for you? I mean, you know it's it's we're talking about earlier.

I mean, having those people when we're growing up that really inspire us and then being able to like work alongside them as peers is it's the best. You know, nothing more needs the best. That is totally, man. And and it really was like that was just like such a gift and it was so fun and honestly, man, I haven't put this together. That might have been the start of realizing for me being like, dude, I should just do some more stuff that is fun because it's fun.

Because I think for while, like took music so seriously that it felt like fun, Like I didn't have didn't a room for fun anymore. It's like all this other stuff is more important. And I've realized then it was like, oh no, there's value just to doing something because it is fun and enjoyable. And I honestly that probably was

the start of like the theme of the record. I have not thought about that before, but yeah, that was literally because I mean, like I love Steve Winwood and it's cool, but it's not like the song is going to get a billion streams because Steve Winwood played Hammond on it. It's just more like that's like fun for me and like a person like you who loves Steve Winwood, um, and just like feeling that sort of joy in that moment being like, oh that's worth pursuing. That's yeah. I

think that's probably where some of that started. That's cool. I mean yeah, they album opens with with dream on and you know, or just people to stay in touch with that person that was filled with passion years ago that led them down whatever path they decided to pursue. If it's music, if it's golf, if it's accounting, if it's carpentrate, what's whatever it is? Yeah? How how what

is it that keeps you dream it? I think, Um, I think I'm probably my best headspace and like most apt to like look forward to her dream about something when I'm like grateful, when I have maybe a spirit of gratitude because I feel like, especially for my job.

I think sometimes you know, quote unquote, dreams can start to get mixed in with like aspirations, which is nothing wrong with that, but like that can kind of muddy the waters where it's like, um, at this point, enough stuff has happened that I thought would never happen that I kind of realized that like, oh, that's never gonna like You're never gonna be able to do enough. It'll

be like I'm satisfied I did it. And I think when you start looking too much like I feel this now with three of the songs being out, and you're like, oh, I have to remember like just exists in a place of gratitude, because it can be easy to be like, oh, like are the ore the playlist is the play isn't good enough because this happening enough whatever, I really want

to make sure it does good. And I think there's nothing wrong with that, but it can really quickly spiral into a place where you're like your dreams or maybe not so much like things that are inspiring you or like propelling you forward and are more like it's like achievement based. So I think probably for me, I am like best at dreaming or like pursuing something when I'm like at peace and thankful for where I am, um because and again there's nothing wrong with goals or anything

or like those types of dreams. I just have never found that that's been like a super long term satisfying place for me to be. And maybe for some other people it is, it just hasn't been for me. You watch enough behind the music in each two Hollywood stories. You hear enough over and over again these people that you know, I I got the Oscar, I got the Grammy, I did what I said out to do, and that that wasn't it. That's not where it with a capital I,

I guess comes from. There's something else. And I guess gratitude is probably you know, a good word as any if you could sum it up with one word, yeah, And I think, honestly, man like, I think people sort of understand that, but I don't, you know, I understand that,

and sometimes I still don't totally believe it. But to me, it's not any more complicated than like if that were true, then people who have achieved great things would be happy like it just like yeah, like just generally the goal all the gold metal metal winners just happiest claims the rest of their life. And it's just like that's just

like fundamentally not the case. And I think, to me, it's like that it's fine to like use that information like it seems seems true because every single person who's achieved stuff says it, and their life is reflective of that. So it's like probably okay to make that assumption, you know, absolutely, I think we can all learn something from that. I think that's a beautiful note to end on. But I am I am grateful for you. I'm grateful for your

time today. You're incredibly thoughtful answers, and of course your music. Thank you so much for just all the warmth and positivity coming from you today. It's been such a joy talking about Thanks so much, man, Thanks for the great questions. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or whatever you listen to your favorite podcast