Hello and welcome to another episode of Inside the recording studio. I am Jody Whitesides and with me as always is Mr. Chris Hellstrom. How are you today, sir? I'm doing good Jody. How about yourself? Yeah, something I'm feeling pretty straight at the moment. Yes. personal you want to tell me here? Oh, well, there you go. Chiropractor adjustment yesterday got me back to like feeling like a human again. Yeah. Good for you, man. Good for you. That's awesome. Yeah, we're Lovely things. Yes.
gonna jump right in, I think. So let me I'm gonna ask you a Sounds like it. question here. Why do you buy a new piece of gear when you do? Okay. to fill an emotional black hole that only this little piece of gear is going to fill. be honest. Yeah, did the Brainworks SSL 4000 cure that for you? Well, that's good. No. It did for the mix that I'm working on. Good, good, good. It made you so happy you had to go to the chiropractor. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I was getting twisted.
No, I'm being a little flippant on that. Uh, sure. Generally, there's two reasons Mm-hmm. why I might buy a new piece of gear. Well, maybe three. Uh-huh. One is, as I mentioned, to fill an emotional black hole. Two, maybe I have a piece of gear that's futzing out and I need a new version of it and I need to replace it. Right. So I'm gonna get something for that necessarily. And then the third one is, damn it, I just want it. That's how I would look at it.
Yeah. But that's kind of like the first one as well. sort of I mean an emotional black hole isn't really damn it I just wanted it's Right. Yeah. Yeah, and that hole never gets filled because we keep buying new shit, right? kind of like oh I feel like if I don't have this I'm gonna be depressed for the next ten years mm-hmm what's your reason But it's an interesting point, I think, and we're obviously making light of it.
But if we're really honest about ourselves, there are a couple of reasons why we get new stuff and possibly they're not necessarily, hang on, I'll answer that question in a second, know the reality of why we buy stuff doesn't necessarily line up with why we should be buying stuff. yo So you mentioned that something might be not working for you anymore, whether that's mmm-hmm yep obsolete or you just have a different need and then we upgrade. The other part is we just want mm-hmm
something. Let's face it. I mean, I have a huge problem with AMP Sims. I have more. Yes, I do. And it's just, oh, my god, Yes, you do. More than I do. And I have a pretty bad problem. Mm-hmm. that's so cool. Yeah, I can have that. And I see myself using that. And I buy I have more than I need way more than I need. Sure. Because, you know, we've talked about ad nauseam about knowing your gear and more often than not, it's learning how to dial
that thing in, right? But I like them. I have my latest problem that I'm starting to develop is like were. I didn't help this past week with that either. Yeah, channel strip console plugins. You did not, but it was such a stupid deal. I had to go for it anyway. So yeah. Yep. Yes. They're good at that though, aren't they? Yeah. thank you plug-in Alliance for that one took money out of my
pocket and Chris's. You know, if I were to make light of (inaudible) thinking that maybe I had Zuckerberg money and things were certainly of no object in terms of cost. I have to think that I would start collecting really ridiculous items like RCA ribbon mics and original Fairchild compressors. Things that cost the entire car or house at this point. Something like that nature, Right. You'd be Blackbird Studios is what you're saying, right? Top shelf, everything. Yes. Yes. That's my black hole.
Well, we have to be honest with ourselves. I'll follow my sword. I'm no better than anybody Cow. else, but when I see something new and shiny, I'm like, "Ooh, that is cool." And if that coincides with a little bit of a need, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm buying that." Right? Cow. cow? Okay. Is that my cue to shut up now? Is that? Yeah. It's a road trip thing to get somebody to stop talking about something.
You yell out cow because there's a cow in the field or something nearby and they suddenly stop and they look out the window to see what you're looking at. So the, they stopped talking. Sorry. No, I was just trying to get you to, Right. All right. What I was gonna say that what can come nevermind. Move on. (sniffing) Mm-hmm. from this is a little bit more on the serious topic is that we Oh, I disagree with that on my end, try to use every piece of gear in every project that we do.
Right, but I'm sorry, it but it is one of those things that we but you go right ahead. Mm-hmm. Oh, I just bought this, whatever it is. And I should probably use Well, if I look at it from an instrument standpoint, this on every mix I do from that one, where Okay, let's go instrument standpoint. The most recent instrument that I actually purchased. Uh-huh. (bell ringing) Ooh, that sounds awful. Sounds awful in the way the mic set up It does sound awful. for me to just be talking.
Anyway, sleigh bells. No. You can't put sleigh bells in every damn song. Right. That just isn't gonna work. Yes. Nobody's a little bit different in the software world though, because you know, we think, Mm hmm. Oh cool. I just got this new XYZ kit. So let's try to use it on this mix. Let's try to use it on the next one as well. Yes. And it might not be the right tool for the job.
So I think we need to keep in mind, or I would advise people to keep in mind, that when you buy a new piece of gear, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use it in every project moving forward, especially if it has a function. I'm sort of only half joking here when I say, well, I have way too many AMP SIMs, right, my own good. But I do have some of them that are strictly function based. If I'm doing like what? Okay, that just sounds metal. Just from the title.
like a heavy like guitar like a metal type of a thing, I have a couple that I would reach for the angle Savage 120. The it is yeah. Right? Yep. Any other angle I really really >> Okay. still like the Engel retro tube head that they have that that I love that thing. It's almost like Have you ever distorted a Roland Jazz Chorus, though?
legacy software now but that gets a lot of use that points me in that direction right but I wouldn't necessarily go out and even if it was a screaming deal it's like hey get a emulation of a Roland jazz chorus because I don't do that kind of music. So is it possible to distort a Roland jazz chorus? Well, if you put something in front of it, sure, but Well, yes. Yeah. well, no, but why would I do that? Well, that's a different topic entirely, I think. Because you can. Or at least I have.
Sure, but that's getting geared and using it just because I have it. Yeah. Well, my point is that there are probably better tools equipped for that, right? What you're not supposed to do technically. Yes, there are. So that's sort of like the overarching thing here, I think we should talk about today. So where Yep. Yep. Right. the temptation is to kind of force every new piece of gear that we get into every mix that we do,
do or any production that we do. But exactly. And if the answer is yes, then absolutely. But the question you have to ask yourself at that point is, is this really going to improve my workflow from using this new piece of kit? That's why you got it, right? Get that thing in there and you don't have to perhaps do So, what you're saying is I need to add Slay a Bell to our intro theme.
all the other steps that you were forced to do if you're trying to do, and the show get tracking all you have is that Roland jazz chorus and you're trying to put every distortion pedal in front of it. It's just not going to work but then if you get something else that's more appropriate then yeah but you have a better tool for the job. Please don't. That would be maybe for the Christmas episode right Okay. Maybe.
maybe we can do that or not. I think it's just the temptation to do that and I Yes, it does. don't think it's necessarily good. So we have to, I guess, ask ourselves, why are we buying a new piece of gear? Right? And something to keep in mind as well as I mean, this is also really, really tempting. But just because there's a new version of said piece doesn't mean that the one that you have is obsolete. Does it?
(laughs) We were kind of discussing a little bit ahead of the recording of the podcast where it's Yeah. like I have a project coming up where I anticipate I'm going to make a radical amount of gear Yeah. Yeah. But then you would be addressing a need, right? So, if you're a person who's acquisition.
And at that point, some of my current gear, I'm going to revert to older OS version of it so that I can actually go back and reload an old instance of the OS and say, okay, this this machine is now relegated to that OS 'cause the virtual system is not working and that's frustrating. So, yes, that is addressing a need when I do that. would be addressing a need, right? So it's like, okay. Yeah,
so it's like, okay. Right. Yeah, that's what you have to do, And it's not that the old one is technically obsolete, it's just that it doesn't run on the new shiny thing. (laughs) (stomach rumbling) like computers and stuff and OSs do, for better or worse, they Mm hmm. go through a certain life cycle. And it's not like they do become obsolete, but it's just that it stops you from upgrading from a certain point because either the physical components can't handle it or Yeah, thank you Apple.
the OS is too demanding for the processor that is in there. So yeah. Thank you for that. Apple has always been brutal with that though. They just go forward Yep, seven years and you're done. like, "No, this is what we're doing." I remember people... Yeah, but yeah, I remember It's not seven year itch. when people were losing their minds when they got rid of the floppy drive, you know, now I know we're going back a little bit here. Yeah. They've always been good with that. Right.
So no, we're not going to do optical drives in the computers anymore. Well, what about you? It's like, what? You know? Yeah. So anyway, I'd like to pat myself on the back and say that it was because of upgrading That is another reason why you know that you bought a certain piece of kit. Okay. something, but that would be utter blatant lie. That's the goal, right? Okay. Mm-hmm. If I'm upgrading something and I have gotten a lot better about it.
I really have. There are certain things I have weaknesses for, you know, and that is amps, amps is top of the list. And I'll say, Oh my God, this is so cool. And because I'm my first (laughs) Okay. instrument is guitar. So that that's just where my head is at. But there are other things that I have gotten a lot better with in that regard. And the main component there is like keyboards,
and synths, particularly soft synths, right? And there are so many things that come out that just You know, for some reason as you were telling me this, I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." look absolutely amazing, right? But then I think about my level as a keyboard player and my level as a patch programmer with the flexibility that we have with everything in that field at this point. Do I really need the newest sampler instrument that can do all of this where I could just use an old
one and perhaps throw a bit crusher on it and get the same result, you know. So yeah. about your synth thing. An image of, "Listen to what the flower people say." Just popped into my head and I'm like going, "Oh man." Yes, exactly. All right. Wow, we just had a spinal tap moment. Yeah. What made you think of that though? Because that's off the rails, man. It's like I wasn't talking about anything like that. I don't know. Oh. It just popped into my head as you were saying that.
Yeah. I was thinking just when they start doing their little moment in that song, Alright. and it's like you get the shiny new piece of gear. It's a anyway moving on. Yeah, let's say for example, [BLANK_AUDIO] that there are, I mean, there are many valid reasons why we buy new pieces of gear and we upgrade stuff all the time. And it could be, you know, we're upgrading in interface or you're upgrading your monitors and all this kind of stuff. Both of which I've done.
But yeah, I think we've all done and probably 90 percent of the people that might listen to this have probably gone through that journey. [BLANK_AUDIO]
right. But I think what is really, really detrimental, especially when we're starting [ Pause ] out this journey, let's say that we're putting like our little home studio together and we want to get into whether you're a beat maker or you're singer songwriter, whatever it is, it's easy to fall into the trap that unless you have the chineas newest, biggest, baddest version of whatever plugin, you're not going to be able to do your job, right? Or do the job that you're
setting out to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it is it but but Would you say the same about sound cards? Because I just literally spoke about that before we hit record. How I'm like, I want the update to my system. And it's like, do I need the update to my system? yeah, but for in your case, being, you know, a UA user, you No. But is it shiny and new and probably sound just like a half percent better? Yeah. Who knows? Oh, believe me, I have pushed.
will push that piece to the limit, right, with the processing power and the chips and all this kind of stuff. And there'll probably be added functionality that you make use of. But it's yes, but but it's not going to make a break here, right? It's No, no. not like, Oh, my God, if I don't have this, the next production I Oh, but it will. do is going to fail, you know, maybe, but, but I think that's a (laughs) Oh, really? trap that we fall into. And I know, you know, it's all less I
remember, I mean, this goes back a long time. But when well, when Mm-hmm. plugins really started happening, you know, with like waves and everything that was starting to come in and actual Sure. plugins started to sound good. There was a time where you basically try to get everything because it added a tool that you could use, right? But there's such a saturation out there now Just to be on SSL's side? that do you need every SSL emulation that's out there? Do
you need every 1176 emulation that's out there? And yeah, Yes. Just to be on UA's side? sure, right. But I mean, from Yeah, but but it also again, it's Yes. As long as they're official emulations. like you and I have talked about it before. If you feel like you can't do a mix because you don't have the right console emulation, the problem isn't your console emulation. You know, and like, right, it might sound harsh, but then we have to examine our Well that was Adam's thought too, right?
skill set a little bit and see, oh, if I only have the latest focus, right, whatever, then I could (silence) Mm-hmm. finally do this. It's probably not the plugin. You know what I mean? Sounds a little bit like a buzz (silence) Mm. kill a kind of episode here but these are questions that we need to ask ourselves. I think we're better off for it in the long run. Yes. Yeah. But then if you have the ability to pull some strings and get a good deal on it because
Well sure. Yeah well there well there is that right but then at least be honest with yourself and don't tell yourself oh if I only had this and it's like yeah it's a great deal. Yeah I wanted it. I just wanted it. the company is being favorable upon your person. Why not take advantage? (laughs) All right, well, since we're sitting here pretending, I want to have it and that's fine, but don't pretend that there's any other reason than that. So... let's take a word from our sponsors.
And we're back. What are we doing now with this whole gear thing that we've been like going through in terms of like buying it for various nefarious reasons? Okay. Well, let's say that now we have all the gear that we definitely have on our plug-in arsenal or physical domain, whatever it is. Let's think about using the right piece of gear for the job as opposed to trying to shoehorn And what would be something that you would shoehorn or shouldn't shoehorn? in the new piece of gear that we got.
Well let's just say that, well again obviously content dependent here, but let's say that Okay. I just now got myself on 1176 with side chain capabilities. Yes. Okay. Yes. Right. Have you ever side changes at 1176? Do I really need that in every instance? Yes. Okay. No, but I mean, those are the kinds of questions that I would ask myself, right? So it's very, I don't think so. Yeah. I haven't either. Maybe I'm missing something here. Well, maybe.
I mean, I think the idea there would be like, well, in the digital domain, we can make anything happen, right? Yeah. So it's probably less of sticking to the original beyond the way it treats the transients and the actual compression and stuff, right? I thought you I thought that was the 78. But now, like, okay, well, let's add functionality to this. And I think also the was the MC-77, the purple 1176, because it's more.
get it. No, you're thinking of the pulse audio. That's the one Pulse audio has got the 78. that has like the side chain and stuff, but the plug-in alliance Okay. one, the purple, it's called MC 77. That has same Ah. Oh, that's nutty. functionality. I think it even has like mid-side compression that it can do. Well, that's what I mean. That can be like the temptation of, oh, let's see now I have to use every 1176 as a sign chain type of thing. shiny new function mid side with an 1176
Right. Right. Is it always necessary? Yeah, probably not. But you know, or it could be like, let's say, you know, I just got a great granular modulator there, it's gonna mess up my audio, right. And I had great success in that and trying it out on some synth pads or whatever. Right. Are you going to put it on every single one? That's definitely a temptation, right? Worked last time, so let's do it again, right?
But while we have all this amazing flexibility, I think it's important again, just to think about, yeah, you have all of these tools at your disposal, just know when to use them. You pick the right town. What about you though? I mean, I'm doing a lot of the talking here, but have you ever done that when you got something new and shiny and it's, oh, okay, I'm gonna use this on everything right now. Yeah, I just used a sleighbell on this particular podcast.
Yeah, but you don't always use it, you know? It sounded awful, but I used it. Yes, yes. So no, but I mean, be serious. Have you thought about it? Is there anything that you've kind of found the temptation that, okay, I have this, now I'm going to do that? When I picked up the Apollo system and I got the 8P, Uh-huh. I did it for a specific purpose I'm going to put a link in the chat. and I still use it for that same kind of purpose every day.
And that is, I was tired of plugging and unplugging instrument cables from the interface. Like, oh, I'm gonna record bass now and get back there and switch out the plug-in and change the cable and blah. So what I have done is I've got cables that run around the room from the interface Okay. that are one for the bass, one for the guitar, and they've got their own channel. So I kind of went overboard for the needs at the time is to have individual items plugged into individual inputs.
So there was no need to go in and start like patch bag kind of stuff. This input is for that item. That's what it's used for. I did that as overkill because I had so many inputs. It's like, this is what that input is for. It's not changing. That's practical way of using what I've got for me. seems like a right if valid workflow kind of reasons for that right because Yes, it is a valid workflow thing.
like no it's like it's ready to go you're going in here and you have whatever set up there are you using the so like the console thing in UA there as well to have certain processing on let's say that you base track that is all that already loaded up type of thing or are they okay Yes and no. I have multiple presets for things like bass and guitar and vocals and certain mics and Yeah. Okay. But when you got that additional Apollo, was that to get more processing power everything else.
Also, when a client comes in and they're recording, I will say the presets that I used as well. So that should they come back, I have a reference point to start immediately without having to rebuild the situation. And that helps too. Both, both. Or did you have this kind of workflow in mind? Both. Okay. I had the workflow in mind. I'm thinking the first one was probably. Right. I had the workflow in mind and I wanted the extra power.
Yes. You could probably, but you probably could have lived without the workflow, but you wanted the more power for the processing. So you kind of like got a bonus function out of it. A boner function, yes. Right. Boneless function out of it. (laughing) Get your mind out of the gutter, sir. I got both, I got both out of it, so yes. So that solved an issue though for you on the hardware side. But what about on the software side?
Yes. [ Silence ] Have you ever come across, I'm sure you must have, where it's like, okay, I got this new great flanger or whatever happens to me. I'm gonna use it everywhere now because I found myself, I know we've talked about this before, but you find yourself doing like workflow things that you just learned about and now you're high passing everything up to a certain frequency and that kind of stuff even though it's not necessarily advisable to do those on every Yeah.
track type of thing. But have you done that? Maybe you haven't done that and then I'll take my hat off to you. [ Well no, it would be, it wouldn't be as black and white as you're kind of trying to ask the question, so to speak. And we sort of kicked it off with the episode talking about using channel strips as a console You turning attention to concept within the DAW. You Hmm And that has been a change in the way I build mixes. [ Pause ]
It has not necessarily sped up how long it takes me to do a mix, but it certainly made . (no audio) [ Pause ] it more simplistic in nature and giving me more time to sit and listen more, I guess [ Silence ] is a good way of saying it. And then I need to think out the process of when I actually use an additional compressor that's not built into the channel strip or an additional EQ. Where am I putting it? Am I putting it in front of the channel strip? Am I putting it behind the channel strip?
And I'm thinking in terms of the hardware version of the workflow in order to use it. Does that make sense? Yes, yeah. And while I wouldn't say that it's been 100% just staying on a particular channel strip [ Silence ] for all these mixes that I've been doing as of late, it certainly has changed in that regard. It hasn't changed the fact that I still do crazy weird busing stuff to set apart my own Right yeah.
(silence) individual spatial scapes, so to speak, sonic juiciness within (sniffling) (sniffling) doing mixes. But in terms of like loading down channel [ Pause ] strips, or the DAW with the individual inserts with an EQ [ Pause ] plugin, a compression plugin, a whatever plugin, a high pass . filter plugin, a low pass filter plugin, and that kind of thing. [ Pause ]
And then trying to rearrange the order in the channel on the DAW, [ Pause ] I just leave it to the channel strip of the console sound that I'm attempting to push the mix through. (Applause) And the most recent purchase, which was a few days ago as of the recording of this episode, [ Pause ] has to do with the fact that the artist that I am mixing a song for right now gave me an example of what they wanted in the sonic value of it.
And while I could probably get it with pretty much any channel strip that I have, and I I have probably 10 or 12 of them at this point, which is kind of crazy. I bought that new plugin, or not even, it's not even a new plugin. I bought the 4000E from Plugin Alliance, [ Pause ] specifically for this mix. I mean, I couldn't beat the deal. Yeah. Right. So I bought it and I put it to direct use immediately. [ Pause ] So there, that's an example of buying it for a need. Right. [ Pause ]
because the sound that she wanted was of that era Yeah. [BLANK_AUDIO] of that console, the 4000E. So that's why I'm using that. [AUDIO OUT] Right, and I think obviously the changes to your workflow there, [AUDIO OUT] I think those can be interesting in the way that, let's say that you said [AUDIO OUT] it changed your workflow in a sense, not necessarily speeding it up. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. But to me, the idea of treating your mix sort of like if you have a console in Mm hmm.
front of you, it forces you down to think a little bit more about, or at least for Yeah. me, it's like it forces you to think about the decisions that you make in a different way, as opposed to just loading up automatically all the plugins that you tend to have there. So I like the idea of sort of streamlining your workflow and just kind of like forcing yourself to think and listen about in a
different way. In using all these additional colors in your mix, should you need them where you need perhaps an LA to a type of compression or an 1176 as (silence) Mm-hmm. well as all the spatial stuff they do or if you want it to be more like a pole tack or whatever you have that opportunity to do it though Well, yeah, I can forgo or I can double up on using a particular EQ or compressor in conjunction with the channel strip, that's fine.
right yeah right But I'm finding that I don't generally need to pull those in as often, I guess. That's a plus. And while I still haven't gone to the neurotic stage of like I'm using the API for my acoustic guitars and I'm using the 9000 J for my drums and the Helios for my vocals or something of that nature, I haven't gotten that neurotic with it yet. Yeah. Do you foresee yourself doing that though? Yeah. Right. But there again, it So, maybe just to try it.
Yeah. may be to wrap up this subject here today is that varying comes back to what Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yup. It's getting more old school and that thought we did the very first episode. We're talking about learning your gear, right? And listening to what the processes that you're doing is. What does the EQ sound like when I do this? And what is the compression that everything that might be included in this, let's say, challenge strip plug-in that we're using right now,
right? And then using supplemental stuff when the need arrives, right, to do other tasks. So it... yeah, it's interesting though, isn't it? Because it is one of those, and process for me which is kind of weird. Uh-huh. [ Pause ] I think that's kind of forcing ourselves out of the mindset of realizing, "Oh, okay, here is a new 1176, let's get that one. Right? Or let's get whatever new shiny EQ there is, right? Well, what is the
difference really that big from the EQ that you're using? So instead of, okay, well, I got a boost DB and a half on the high shelf instead of just a DB, you know, it's just a workflow (sighs) Using it everywhere. thing. So I think it's interesting. But the, the topic that I wanted to talk about here is the the temptation of falling into the habit of just whenever we buy a new piece of gear, just because it's there, using it everywhere where I think we I don't disagree with you.
always end up floundering doing that type of stuff. So well, this is a piece of gear that I have not had my hands on So with that, let's move on to our Friday Fines. - Safe finds, Chris. What have you got for us this week? yet. But it's been all over the interwebs and it looks pretty darn cool. Audient have released a new interface called the Evo 16, which is an 8 in, 8 out plus 8 out connectivity for less than $500. And by all accounts, Hmm.
Yeah, that commercial that you showed me was pretty cool. that's a pretty good deal. That's and people say that they have really, really good converters and all this kind of stuff. So whenever you're need more inputs and outputs. This looks like a pretty cool option because normally we would pay a fair bit more than that for that many in and outputs. So the Evo 16 is my find for this Friday. What do you got for us Jody? Right? And some of the ( ( audio
you know automatic gain functions and stuff it sets the inputs and stuff. I don't know what kind of magic is going on there but it looks pretty cool. Yeah. ) ( laughter ) It'd be interesting to see how it works, yes, of course. What about you? What do you got for us? I'm going with Universal Audio's new FX guitar pedals. Okay. They have just announced a new, three new stomp boxes that go along with their previous Right.
three stomp boxes in a sense because the previous three were actual guitar effects pedals. And while these are still stomp boxes, they are guitar amp emulation stomp boxes, which is Mm-hmm. [silence] do pedals make stomp boxes that work in terms of sounding just like an amp? Maybe, maybe not. But they have three. They have one called the classic American. They have one called the sound of the British invasion, or at least this is what I'm kind of getting the gathering
of. And then they have the one that started it all. And my thought process on this is that the first classic American one is the Fender 65 reverb is my guess. The Ruby, which you think you up is the British one, I'm guessing is some sort of Vox recreation. And yeah, and then I'm you think you up I'm thinking that there's a second fender, which is the Fender 55, which is the one they claim is the one that started it all. basement maybe I don't know Is that correct?
I don't know, but no, it doesn't look like a basement because it has kind of an orangish color to it. So I'm assuming it's to mimic the tweed, Yeah, didn't the basement too have that? the orangish tweed that Fender used to have. I think it was Fender that had that, but I don't know. The basement was silver. Oh, it doesn't matter. What was that? Yeah, Fender basement was silver.
Yeah. Anyway, those are the new effects pedals from Universal Audio, and that is my pick for this week, even though I haven't played with them yet. We actually both pick hardware units today. Yes, we did. Craziness. While we've got your attention, we ask that you go to insidetherecordingstudio.com and sign up for our mailing list. Doing so will get you weekly reminders about the Tuesday tips when they come out, and we'll make sure that you don't miss any future episodes of the podcast.
Send us an email at gold star G-O-L-D-S-T-A-R [BLANK_AUDIO] at inside the recording studio with the word gear. And you'll get something cool back in your inbox. If you have a topic or suggestion for Chris and I Have a good one, Jody. to talk about in a future episode, contact us at the contact page and we'll put it into consideration for a future episode. With that, I'll say, see you next week. (no audio) Thanks for listening, everybody.