Hello. It's another episode of Inside the recording studio and I am Jody Whitesides and with me as always is Mr. Chris Hellstrom. How are you today, I'm doing good, Jody. Chris? Yeehaw. I'm doing all right. Not gonna not gonna I'm doing good. How about yourself? Good. No, we've had a long discussion and gotten that out of the way already before you started complain. Yes. No, but I am starting to get back to a happy taping here. So let's leave it at that.
That's not meant for public consumption, I guess. place because I did as I mentioned to you earlier, start Yeah. creating guitar patches instead of guitar channel strips, Yeah, I think I've done that as well, sometimes not recently, but when you do that, it just I've started going a little bit more off the deep end and creating these elaborate guitar patches and spending several hours at a time doing so and just putting a smile back on my face. Yes. No. Yes. Smack me in the face mix.
kind of makes you remember what made you fall in love with the instrument initially, I guess, and the playing, and just for no other reason than just playing for the joy of it. It's cool. But we're not talking guitar today. We're talking mixing and punchy mixes and how to get them. Yes, smack me in the face mix. We're... yeah. So I guess first thing we'll cover, like, well, what constitutes a punchy mix to you? One that hits me in the chest and the face and the groin all at the same time.
Yeah, how's that big word of punch? Yeah. Yeah, the punch. Yeah, because it is a little bit subjective, isn't it? It can be a couple of different things actually to my mind, but it is subjective. but at the same time mixes can sound dark yet still be punchy mixes can sound really bright and still be punchy it's how the mix comes across and liken it to is a word that I would Yeah. associate with guitar playing is called onch and I think you might know but to describe what onch Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a word that comes to mind to me is, is, is that moment when a pick nails the string and you're playing at a very loud volume and punchy does not mean that you need to be at a loud volume, but in a mix in terms of music, it's more of a, how does it come across the speakers and literally hit me in terms of a soul feel not so much as a volume feel. Yeah. impact, something that has impact that it's not a steady Good after week,
stream of volume type of thing. So that leads kind of into this where I think dynamics is a really, really important part of this. But it is that something that just kind of hits you over the head and you feel that it has that it has that punch, [LAUGHTER] right? Again, it's like punchy mix. It's really the best way to kind of describe it. But it's something that I think that has like an impact, like you said, it kind of kicks in the chest or
Gets you a boot up the backside, right? It adds something and it has an effect on you So is that always desirable? No, should we all strive to get you know punchy mixes on everything that we do? What I No, there's some songs that don't need that. Think it depends on what kind of track we're doing right cuz you know, obviously very very style dependent years Cheers. Like we say content dependent. So
Cheers. I'll have a little bit of coffee here. Well Well, the first thing that would probably fall under, how do we get to a But even before we do that, let me just kind of take one step back and say, is it always punchy mix, right? [BLANK_AUDIO] desirable? Now I'm thinking, what kind of track are you writing? Is it a classical guitar piece? However, with classical guitar, I could think of classical guitar pieces that Is it an ambient mix that you're going to hear at a yoga studio?
Then a punchy mix is probably not right up there in priority. So right, right. could use a bit of punch. Do they all need that? No, I do agree with you on the yoga studio thing though. That's one of those things where it's like, you really don't need a punchy mix in a yoga studio.
Well, the ultimate in punchy would probably come down But if you have something that wants to have like a little bit of an impact over, let's say a pop track or a heavy guitar driven rock track, or even like a country track, a modern country track something, I think a punchy mix is that too. Yeah. I mean, if you listen to that low end to EDM and dance. Yes. and stuff, if it isn't punchy there, the track's probably falling apart, right? So, okay. So how do
we get there? What's your first thing that you would listen for and kind of consider of the track? Yeah. The arrangement, the arrangement of the track, the instruments that you're using and how Oh, I always did. It was always brilliant. No, no, I agree. I mean, but explore there they're working together. And I know from personal experience, early on, I didn't do a very good job with arranging. Well, laddie-dah.
When I say that I wasn't very good at it, my initial thing had a lot to do with reading a little bit and then I'll tell you my side of it as well. Sure. about other musicians and instruments and how they got to a point of where they recorded something if it was an album that I listened to that I really felt strongly about. And one of the guitar players that I felt strongly about, especially with his sound, was Zach Wilde.
The guy was a masterful guy of layering guitars. But I took that to mean that you play the exact [silence] same thing with the exact same instrument and the same amp and the same microphone and everything else all at the same time and you track it like four times because he was known for quadruple Mm. [silence] tracking a lot of stuff. Reality is that's not how it was done. [laughs]
And I learned that fairly quickly, but I did spend some time doing it that way and realizing, The temptation of always wanting to add more is one that is, well, for one of a better whoops, that ain't right. Mm hmm. Sure. word, very tempting. Sure. Well, but it's how you add the stuff that becomes the impact. We feel like, "Oh, I need more impact, so let's keep adding stuff. Let's keep adding stuff." It still doesn't have the impact that I want. It's add stuff. Let's add stuff. Yeah, in... right.
And when it came to Zach, wild as the reference point that I'm going to give here, it had plenty to do with the fact that, yes, he was playing the same sort of rhythm or whatever it was that he was quadruple tracking. However, it was done with different guitars, going through different amps, played somewhere differently on the neck.
So you're layering the sample and the sound, so to speak, [BLANK_AUDIO] of what he's playing, but he's that good of a player where he's playing it in different spots on the neck. He wasn't just playing the same thing Yeah, a little subtle differences. with the same instrument, same amp, same mic. Everything was different about each take as it was done. When you combine things like that, becomes punchier or bigger in that regard. Would you agree? Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, my point that I wanted to make there is, from my experience, when we're lacking punch, like I said, the temptation is to keep adding more stuff, adding more things. [AUDIO OUT] Where in reality to me, [AUDIO OUT] it's often better to sort of scale back (laughs) what it is that you're doing I'm just gonna do it. Mm hmm. and focus on a few elements. 'Cause it's very easy to like, okay, well, we got a guitar part here and it's not hitting as much as I want.
Okay, let's add another synth patch. And let's add another one here and another one here. And it becomes like it's just a whole lot of nothing. It's like there is no dynamics or anything going on. So I find that finding in the arrangement, what is it that is really important? What is it that is meant to drive this section of the song You thief. or this riff or whatever it is?
And make that the focal point and kind of clear way the clutter, if you will, the musical clutter and decide what it is That's important here. A phrase that I like to use, and I can't remember where I stole it from 'cause I stole it from somewhere, but it's a mix it, I know, but it's so good that it deserved stealing No. is that a mix is not a democracy. Not everything gets equal, say, in the mix. Something has to sort of take charge there.
So coming from that mindset has helped me anyway in those cases where it's like, oh man, I can get much more impact with just a few things. Imagine like an AC/DC record, right? It's not layered like at all, right? It's just that it has massive impact. And yeah, right. Those guys are also masterful at getting that onc out of their guitar sound. You know, Malcolm's right hand there and just kind of hitting away on those like barely distorted guitar stuff, I think.
So sometimes less has a bigger impact. So that's one of the things that I consider Right. when you're trying to create punch in a mix where is everything that is there really important? Right. Does it add something to it or do we need to declutter it type of thing? So that's where I start. Dynamics, definitely dynamics. But what about the next one? What would you think would be the next order of the day here type of thing? Yeah, I think, yeah. Yeah, it kind of goes hand in hand Mm hmm.
with what we talked about there. If everything is just playing at the same level and this is something that I noticed during sort of like the height of the loudness wars, right? When albums were coming out, there was like, there's no dynamics. And the first thing that happens is that one song kicks in, it might hit you in the chest, but then nothing happens. So you have no sort of, yeah. doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't elevate it doesn't decelerate. It does matter. So it just gets fatiguing.
Yeah. So dynamics having those loud elements and, you know, softer elements, even if it's just different levels in the mix. mean that you can't have like a Rammstein record where it just it can be punchy as all hell in the chorus, right? But if the whole track is like that, you kind of lose that definition a little bit in my mind anyway. So the dynamics are, yeah. Dynamics are a big deal and it is easier to get dynamics with miked up (silence) [silence]
instruments than it is to get them with virtual instruments. And the reason why I [Silence] say that is is oftentimes that they're gonna be a little bit lazy with the number of samples that they're gonna use. So you don't have as much variance in
the actual sound with a virtual instrument. Is that always true? 100%? No, It's not however, it is much easier to play off of a microphone get away from it pull your dynamics back Yeah, I would agree up to a point when you're talking about virtual instruments and things And you can get real close and you can be right in there And it's I'm not being overly dynamic but the change in where that microphone setup is
Also changes the concept of how the dynamics work on the example. I just gave is my voice But it's the same concept when you're recording acoustic guitar electric guitars bass drums keyboards, what have you Well, that's why I said it's not a hundred percent.
Right. No, but I would say like 15 years ago, yeah, I would definitely agree that that was probably more true across the board, but with so many velocity levels and things and samples that are in there that let's say for example like a drum library like Superior Drummer, Yeah, but that's the superior way. [laughs] from the softest hit to the loudest hit there is a ridiculous amount of samples there, right? So So, exactly. And that's why you pay for that.
But the same kind of goes for, you know, Yeah. where there's orchestral libraries and things as well. So then I think it becomes a little bit more how we're thinking about how we're performing with them or how we're programming them, depending on how we input them. So I don't think, I wouldn't agree. It's getting better. I say, yeah, but at the same time, It's just not a hundred percent. Also, let's give you a counterpoint here on your microphone technique here as well.
No. Because we can't agree all the time, damn it. Okay. Is that we have to be a little bit of careful. Let's say that we have that vocal performance that we're going to have. Thank you. And depending on what is going on in the line, right, that we're singing, do we need it to be really, really intimate? Is it somebody that's just screaming into the mic?
If something is supposed to be sort of really aggressive and we're playing too much with the dynamics, now I'm talking about stepping away from the microphone or up to the microphone, I think you run the danger of just having an uneven performance.
Sure. But I'm thinking from like, let's say from a verse standpoint or from a chorus standpoint, having those little inflections in there, I'm definitely with you, but we want to be a little bit careful with how we do that, not to overdo that because then it just sounds like a sloppy performance. Again, depending on what kind of track we're doing. But... I can agree with that statement.
Gotcha. Okay. Well, you know what you said, so... I wasn't really trying to refer to the performance aspect of it. I was referring to the dynamic aspect of it. I do. And now it's permanently in history. Yeah. So, yeah. So what's up next? EQ frequencies, again, when we were talking about initially there with the arrangement, What else do we think about here when it comes to punchy mixes? Thank you. [ Silence ] [no audio] it comes into hand, right?
But the EQ part of it becomes really important as well, because if every frequency is just [ Pause ] stuffed full with musical information, it's harder to get that impact. We kind of have to, primarily I would say the low end is very important for this. not like the rest of it is neither but the low end can easily get cluttered and it's hard to create that dynamic impact that we're looking for, that punch as we say. So paying attention to primarily
Mm hmm. Sure. you know bass guitar or bass synth whatever we're doing and perhaps a kick from a kick drum is important to pay attention to that relationship in order to get that massive impact I think. Well, there's other things to be considered about two, depending on the genre and the So. Yeah. Yep. instrumentation going on. Something that comes to mind is guys that are playing seven, eight, nine-string guitars that go way down towards the bass end of things.
The other thing that you have to consider too is piano can get very, very low, depending [ Pause ] on what keys you're playing. That in regards to the low end, yes, it can become cluttered and you want to think about (Applause) what's more important as a section goes on and you already kind of covered that with [ Pause ] the arrangement portion of things and that is very true. [ Pause ] You have to consider what is the important element going on in this particular frequency
range at this point in time. And EQ can help with that. So you can EQ a piano to do something slightly different in terms of how much low end it's going to give off. Same with the bass, same with a nine string guitar or a cajon, depending on what your percussive element is in there as well. And there's a plethora of other instruments that you could be working with and you want to think about what am I doing with this instrument in this frequency Yeah, absolutely.
range right now. So EQ plays an important part of that. Thank you. And putting a premium on that frequency range and thinking about what is the most important part here. And I think when we're, you know, you're talking about eight string guitars, that type of thing, you know, predominantly used in sort of like modern metal, that kind of thing, a little bit more aggressive stuff. But then you'd hear also that if you're doing that, that's going to be the important part.
So the bass and the actual guitar will live in a relatively similar range there. But that means that the kick might have to come up a little bit. And I'll see you next time. So that's why you get a lot of times in that type of music, you get these what we call like typewriter kicks, right? You just hear the beater kind of thing. Just still have the impact of the guitars there. Thank you. The opposite is probably true if you have let's say that you're doing more of an R&B track, right?
Where presumably the bass and the kick drum is going to carry the low end So if you have that piano section on there, let's say that you have, you know a live piano or sample piano, whatever perhaps thinking about Transposing that piano part if it's that low in that range Maybe moving that up an octave to make that audible as opposed to just kind of keeping everything [silence]
In that same range now, of course this this requires that you're part of the production and the recording of the actual song, right? But go ahead Right. Another thing to think about is also, especially with drums, Mm-hmm there are times when you think you're hearing a certain kind of drum, but you're not. And it could be a snare drum, but maybe that snare drum is not actually a snare drum.
This is true, yeah It might be a cardboard box because the cardboard box ends up giving a punchier vibe than an [itz*] Yeah actual snare, depending on the type of song that's going on. So it is, you have to be a little creative sometimes. And that goes back to the concept of the arrangement and the EQ frequency of whatever it is that you're playing.
And that's just an example of being, it almost falls under abnormal miking type shit from Yeah last week's episode in that I'm going to mic up a cardboard box as my snare drum instead of a snare drum, because that's going to give me that thuddier thump that I'm not going Right. And sometimes if we're. Yeah, right. to get from my snare, so to speak. And that's just one of those weird things. Right. And you're bringing up metal. I'll bring up 70s power pop in that.
I just heard the breakdown of a famous song called Band on the Run. And you listen to the drums in that and they have a different type of thuddie hit. And I'm not saying that Paul McCartney ended up playing a cardboard box as his snare on that kit. (laughs) But I am saying that it has a very different character to what modern metal would have. Yeah, content dependent, right? But those drums in there are very, very punchy with the way they sound.
Mm-hmm. And I just wanted to throw in there as well. (laughs) Sometimes if we're really, really unlucky, our snare drum ends up sounding like a cardboard box if we're not processing it, right? So, yeah, when we're striving to have it nice and big Well, what you would think would be a cardboard box anyway. Right. and fat, so yeah. [silence] And with that, let's take a word from our sponsors. And we're back. And we're gonna move into our next item on how to get a punchier mix.
It's our next phase, so to speak. We're gonna talk about phasing. Oh, I like what you did there, very clever. Yeah, this is something that we obviously should think Yeah. Mm-hmm. about during the recording stage, but during mixing we can adjust for this as well. And I'm I'm thinking most of the time, I'm thinking low end here, but same principle goes, but phase, getting the phase right Mm-hmm. Or super tubby. between the kick and bass, that type of thing.
And if you have the entirety of the kit, right? You want to make sure different microphones are in phase with each other here, because that will kill your low end and make it sound possibly really hollow in my experience if you don't get that right, because they're fighting each other. Right. Yeah, most of the time it's not a pleasant sound, right? Or an appropriate sound. And there's plenty of famous records where you can actually hear phasing issues. Could it work in certain cases?
Yeah, sure, it can. But if you're... (silence) It's not like it's going to kill you, but in this day and age, why be lazy? (silence) And of course, this can go back more to the recording engineer portion of it, especially (silence) when it comes to recording live drums. (silence) When you do have your XY miking or you're trying to mic stereo drums in that regard, (silence) (silence) You can sometimes hear the symbols, what they would call symbol wash, where it sounds kind Mmhmm.
of weird in the stereo spectrum. (silence) And that's because the phasing between the mics and where the symbols are set isn't necessarily Yeah, and that's something I've noticed also with when we're talking drums here, that a good spot. it's not unusual. It's not unusual. I'm sorry. I'll show myself out. There you go. Go Tom, go Tom. (chuckles) Yeah, that we add samples to layer onto kick and snare or whatever drum shell that would Yes, but you don't necessarily layer on cymbals samples.
might be. No, no, no. No, no, no, but I was going to say when you do layering, make sure that you check phase Mm-hmm. there as well, because I've noticed that when you layer a certain kick, it don't count [silence] on it being in phase with what you have. You know, so it's worth checking there as well. So we can get into trouble there again with if we keep, oh, my kick is not punchy enough. I keep layering and layering kick samples onto it and you might be making the problem worse. Exactly.
Or go in and edit the samples and make sure they're starting in the same direction. So it's a quick check, right? just flip the phase on whatever plugin you have or just zoom in on it. Yeah, so Yes, I would agree with that statement. Yes, and I'll just say, you're welcome. all those little things and that will save you a lot of headache because I would venture to say that generally the less sample layering you have to do the
better off you are I would think. Yeah, phase really important right and then Here's a word that I like and I like these plugins saturation. Adding saturation, gentle saturation to your signal can do wonders. Would you agree or not? Yeah, you know I recently, well within the last year or so I think, I Yes. picked up Decapitator from Soundtoys and how big of an impact that can have by [ Pause ]
just using gentle amounts of saturation and it can really really bring parts out. It might sound ugly as all hell, just in isolation in solo mode, but when you have it in a track, in a full mix, it can really make things pop. Mixing with saturation is something that doesn't have to sound like you're slaughtering camels, right? But just a little bit, it can really make some (laughs) What kind of sound does a slaughtered camel make? percussive instruments really really pop.
Well imagine that. That sounds like a two or three (laughs) Aha. boss heavy metal distortion pedals in a row turn up to 19. That's what I imagine that's sounding like. Well, one thing that kind of goes hand in hand in my mind with saturation Yeah. is how the transients actually attack. If I could transgend Designer. Yeah. [pause] I'm not sure if I can transgend Designer. I'm not sure. I can transgend Designer. Yeah. [pause] For me, rather than just running something straight through distortion.
If I want that thing to have a little bit more impact, I'm likely to be using something like SPL to get the transient designer in order to get the transient to hit a little bit harder. [ Pause ] And then you use the saturation to kind of fill out the harmonic content of whatever it is that you're saturating. And along those lines, if you don't have something like SPL or some sort of transient designer, you can still do this with compression.
you're just changing where your attack time is and the amount of volume you're gonna throw through it so that your attack is coming through louder and then the compression comes in and kind of clamps down. It's almost as if an SPL or a transient designer Yeah, while we're playing with the initial attack there, so you might have to experiment is a specialized form of compression. Right, to let the attack through. with having a little bit of a slower attack time to kind of get that.
And yeah, before it starts clamping down really, really hard. [ Pause ] And that is another, I think, common mistake, I hesitate to say, but a common error in judgment perhaps that people make when they're looking for impact. And we're talking about a lot how compressors can add punch and all these things. And while that is true, it is only true in my opinion, if you're using it sort of correctly or rather appropriately, I would say. Not over-compressing is what you're trying to say.
What I'm trying, yeah. The compressor, which is what, And then knowing why you're compressing something. So let's say we go back to that snare drum, that ends up sounding like a cardboard box when we don't intend it to. right? It can be that you're just hitting it too hard and you might not have enough release on it where
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, you're hitting that the thank you. Yes. We're hitting the compressor too you're not hitting the snare too hard, you're hitting the compressor too hard with the signal. Yeah, it is. hard and perhaps short attack time and short release time where it just ends up sounding like you're not getting that elongated snare hit which is a lot of times desirable, right? It's knowing how to use a compressor and don't just assume that I'm just gonna throw an L1 on everything
and it's gonna be punchy. Well very very easy to overdo that. Yeah and then you end up with some Come on. Loud dude. Loud. (laughs) yeah album from the Loudness Wars that everything is just nice and even. So we have to be right Brick wall, baby. [ Pause ]
brick wall and make it loud and really fatiguing to listen to. One other thing while we're talking about compression here though in dynamics is that if we feel that we have to add more compression to bring up the life in whatever rhythmic instrument let's say this is acoustic guitar or drums or what have you but we end up squashing those transients too hard a good thing to go to there is parallel compression right when you can get that and kind of mix that in so
It's one of my favorite kinds of compression is to do it in parallel. That's a common... Yeah, do you do most of your stuff in parallel at this point or do you do... Yes. 6535. Parallel. Let's say for example drums. If you have 6535 is probably the rough approximation of what I do in terms of compression.
65 being parallel. Yeah So if you have on a kit do you [BLANK_AUDIO] Rarely use anything on sort of like the insert on let's say for the kick or do you Generally just leave those alone and then do it on the bus or just on the on the parallel If I do it on an individual item, I'm gonna use the quote unquote mix knob. Okay If I don't, I'm going to run it onto a bus that mixes in with the master bus of Yeah the drums since we're speaking drums. If I put it on the master bus of the drums, Yeah.
I'm also going to use the mix knob of a compressor Yeah. to dial back. So essentially it's parallel compression, if I'm doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And granted that's most of the time, especially with drums, it doesn't strike me well in the ear to compress things directly with drums. Other instruments, I do the same sort of thing. 'Cause usually all you're trying to do is add a little bit more weight rather than the dynamics of the performance.
Now, if I'm dealing with the dynamics of the performance, that's a different story, but generally I'm not working too often now Yeah, yeah, no, it's interesting just how we do that because I think I've experimented with things that are overly dynamic on a performance anymore. So that's okay. Does that answer your question? I'm not sure. with parallel compression as well on the entire drum kit. I tend to do, I think, a little bit more gentle compression on the individual shells if they
they need it. And then I will add a little bit more again on Hmm. the drum bus. And usually that gets me, you know, 90% there, if not 100% there where I want to be. But if it's an energetic track, let's say it's a really high energy rock track or something, I might use a parallel bus just to get a little bit more of that crunch from like that, the parallel kit and Yeah, but now you're talking parallel compression again and almost more like a Brower style
just to kind of spank the shit out of it, right? And then just kind of blend that in. So kind of... kind of, yeah, I'm thinking a little bit more like compression. Right? Andrew Schepp's type of stuff, how he likes to do a lot of his parallel stuff. So I wouldn't necessarily, when I think of Brower, I think a little bit more of frequency ranges where he might send kick and bass and low instruments to one bus and then different parts, but I'm talking about the entire kit to that.
So, but that's another part for kind of creating punchy mixes. Oh, OK. And then all we talked about here with drums and stuff, of course, goes on to any other instrument that might be a percussive thing, right? So let's say that if you have hits on guitars or whatever, Mm hmm. all the volume automation, all this kind of stuff as well, but it's easy to get too heavy hand with the compressors, I think. And in my experience, it kind of gets the opposite result of what is desirable.
Yeah, so I think it's important to kind of pay attention to that where we're not overcooking stuff in the name of trying to get a punchy mix because although compression plays a part, it's not the only thing that's gonna make it happen. I'm very excited this week because at this point, And with that, let's move on to our Friday finds. What have you got for us this week, Chris?
I've had about a week to listen to the new Tears for Fears album, Tipping Point, and a favorite of-- [Silence] could I call them pop bands? I guess pop acts. But I think they're just amazing songwriters. And I love just about everything that they've done. But their new album is amazing. I really love it, not just from the song standpoint, but the sound of it and everything. So even if you're not a pop fan, go check out tears of fear is the tipping point and you'll thank me later.
What about you? What about you, Jody? What do you got? I'm looking at the new release of Cubase 12. Oh yeah. That has just been put into the world. [Inaudible] [inaudible] They have three new levels of Cubase 12. They have a pro, they have an artist, and then they have an elements. And each one has a different price tag to it. One thing that they're doing that is similar to what Luna is doing is that you have to have a Cubase account in order to sign in.
And I'm assuming that that's how they determine which level of Cubase you're going to be seeing when you log in. Because I would think that their system has everything in it. Yeah, I think they're... It's just what it's going to show you is based on your account level. Yeah, because I think they're getting rid of their... because they used to have a dongle So it's coming into the subscription model almost. Yeah, it's.
before and I think they're doing away with that with this version. I could be wrong, but I think so. Yeah, they have, well, it is, it's going to be compatible with all that. Yeah, so that's cool. And I believe it's also M1 native, right? [BLANK_AUDIO] And the other thing that is coming to Cubase in a maintenance update is Dolby Atmos mixing. So they're planning on adding that as a built-in feature. That's cool, yeah.
And I'm going to assume, because I don't know, it's not actually announced at, that will probably likely show up in the Pro version. Awesome. So now we got both logic and QBase that natively do Atmos. So that's my pick right there. Very cool. That will be doing Dolby at most natively. Very cool. All right. [ Pause ] While we've got your attention, we ask that you go to inside the recordingstudio.com and sign up for our email list.
Doing so gets you a little gift from Chris and I, plus you'll get weekly reminders about the Tuesday tips when they come out. And we'll make sure that you don't miss any future episodes of the podcast. If you send us an email at gold star G O L D S T A R at inside the recording studio.com with the word punchy, you'll get something cool back in your inbox. Thanks for listening everybody.
And if you have a topic of suggestion for Chris and I to explain in a future episode, contact us at the contact page and we'll put it into consideration for a future episode. And with that, I'll say, see you next week. week. Click. Have a good one, Jody.