The information economy as a rod. The world is teeming with innovation as new business models reinvent every in every industry. Inside Analysis is your source of information and insight about how to make the most of this exciting new era. Learn more and inside Analysis dot Comside Analysis dot com. And now here's your host, through Eric Kavanaugh. All Right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello, and
welcome back once again yours truly, Eric Kavanaugh here. Very excited to have a member of one of my favorite companies on the line today, folks. I first learned about Mendix probably five or six years ago at an SAP conference, and I was just immediately blown away by what they've done. So today we have Cheryl Kennisburg with us and she's going to tell us about a lot of the new developments. But first let me just set the sage here so
you can understand what this technology does. So we all hear about digital transformation. We're trying to upgrade, we're trying to get to the cloud. We're trying to upgrade systems to be able to handle the new capacities, the workloads. We've had this whole evolution around how software gets developed and deployed and managed and things are changing dramatically, Well, how do you do that? Actually, achieving digital transformation requires some form of change to your technology stack, to
your processes, your workflows, what the people are doing every day. Well, there are lots of ways you could do it, and most of them are very confusing and upset the business because they can't code and they don't like that, and then they're nervous about what's happening. Is it really going to
work? All these factors come into play. Well, the folks at Mendix came up with a really fascinating idea, which was to develop a new language, a programming language that is visual and it can be understood by both the business and IT. So they use this visual metaphor to represent the arch texture
or whatever the technology is at this time. So maybe it's an ERP system Enterprise resource planning like an SAP of course, or are lots of other ones out there, smaller ones, And with this visual metaphor, the IT people and business people can sit down and walk through exactly how the new process is going to run. I saw that. I was like, that is freaking brilliant. That is a great idea because now the business can engage in the process and under fantastic. So, Cheryl, welcome back to the show.
Tell us a bit about all the newest stuff that you got. I guess you were just talking about governance today and you told the team that it's actually interesting. Now tell me about governance and mendics. Yeah, well, thank you, Eric, Guys enjoying hearing your intro to Mendics. You did a
great job explaining. So one of the things that happens when you have a large enterprise and a lot of business people and a lot of developers, all collaborating and different kinds of organizational structures is you do need to start thinking about governance. And it's definitely not the sexiest topic when it comes to technology, but there are a lot of things that from a security perspective and a vulnerability perspective that you really have to think about from a low code, particularly as
we see democratization too much broader audience. Yeah, well, and low code really is what you've done so you and low code is nothing new. A lot of folks know what this is. And basically low code or no code as they sometimes refer to it means you have some visual interface that allows you to build apps together. Well, that's not new. In fact, that's been the goal for decades, I would argue, But in the last few
years low code no Code really took off. And I think it's because the engines underneath are getting much more sophisticated about how to connect things and making sure that code is nice and tight and lean and does the job it's supposed to do. But you folks really took it a step further with this visual metaphor
to be able to do building blocks and see what's working. And you know, the thing that excited me the most is the confidence that gives to the business side, because when the business can understand and see visually what you're talking about doing, it makes a lot more sense. And then they're invested, they're not so nervous, and they're willing to pull the trigger and move forward with projects. And unless you change something, you're not transforming anything. Right.
Yeah, absolutely, I think you do need the right platform in order to make the organizational change that you need to start attacking. You know, this digital transformation project you're we don't see organizations succeed with digital transformation using the same technologies that they have in the past, the same organizational structures. So what you're saying about the business is exactly right. And you know you referenced
the logic flow. It's all of the layers, right, So it's the logic flow, it's also what the UI looks like, and it's also what the data structures look like behind it. So Mendex has a visual view that's accessible to a pretty broad set of people across all three of those. And you know, one of the things we're also seeing is tech literacy has gone
up substantially. So you talked about adoption of low code, no code because of the additional power that's going into the platforms, which I think is true, particularly about Mendix, of course, but it's also about the profile of
you know what does a recent graduate entering the workforce look like? You know what, who's you know, while they're watching the game at night, also taking a Python course on Coursera. Like, people are much more tech literate than they were twenty or thirty years ago, and so their desire to contribute
to technology deliveries really coming into focus. Yeah. Well, and so Mendix ten has come out now, and I think you're really riding on this way tech awareness and tech savvyness AI. Maybe let's jump right on AI so we don't forget about that. These large language models have come along and just shaken the business world. I mean, it's really quite remarkable to see how quickly companies have jumped on board. And we're in the early days of understanding how
this stuff works. I mean, just to be really candid, we're in the very early days. But there's no question there is tremendous power here. And I think just how realistic and human like these engines communicate has woken up almost all business people to the potential. Hey, we got to start looking into this basically. So tell us what is Mendix doing in the AI space? How are you kind of jumping on that wave. It's a great question, and I think when we look at our AI investments at Mendis, we
look at them in two ways. One of them is how we can invest in AI to make developers experience better, and the others how we can invest in AI to make the applications that are being built better. And in Mendix ten, we have capabilities in both of those areas that are of great value to our customers. So if we start with as you refer to the large language models. If we start with thinking about what we can do around AI
to make developer experience better. We've had AI assistant development in the platform for several versions. Now, wow, so as you are creating these visual models, you know, a assistant can pop up and say, hey, we noticed that you are referencing this particular entity. Do you want to change the
value of this attribute? Because behind the scenes, we've actually analyzed millions of different actions in micro flows across you know, our thousands of customers and determined that that's the next likely thing you're going to need want to be And we're at like a you know, ninety percent plus accuracy rate at our first recommendation. Why don't what people actually want? That's amazing, Yeah, just real
Let me comment on that. That's very interesting because you know, pattern recognition is what these algorithms do extremely well, and they can, as you suggest, analyze a corpus of data that is far greater than any human being could ever process. Right, And we were just talking massive amounts of data, but there are patterns all throughout those systems. Maybe it's log files, I'm not sure exactly what you're where you're gathering the information, but This is where
AI is going to manifest most of its value. I believe in suggestions and saying, hey, we saw you did this, do you want to do that? Right? And we saw that you see it in the e commerce
world. People who bought this also about that. That's a little bit of a simpler thing to pull off, but to be able to facilitate that process is so powerful because guess what, especially if you're correct, well, that means the developers going to go, oh, yes, you want to do that, Oh yes, I do want to do that, and so they get more confident, they get more engaged, and guess what, that expedites the whole process and expedites time to value. Right. Yes, So we
talk about it just like that. So for experienced developers it makes them much faster. For newer developers, it builds their confidence and it makes sure that they're adhering to best practices. So we have other assistance in the platform. The one we were just talking about is the logic assistant, but we also have ones that check for best press. So I'll give you an example.
Personally, I cannot I'm not a professional developer. I did some quoting in college, and I play around in mendix, you know, pretty regularly, and I'm not producing anything in production, and when I have a loop running, I never know whether to commit the variable or not. I just can't ever rematch. I can't remember, so I commit the variable every time. So now a little thing pops up and says, hey, you're committing this variable a lot, and that's slowing down your app model. That's an anti
pattern. Why don't you do it this way? And it's like one click right. This is like a senior developer sitting next to me and looking at my model and telling me what to do better with it. So you know
what that evolves in. But we will have you know towards the end of this year beginning next year, is an actual chatbot in our IDA that is trained on all of our documentation, our forums, our support database, and is able to answer questions like how do I connect to this SAP system or you know, I want to have a dropdown that does X, y Z, where do I find the button that does that? Right, and is able to field those responses at first and then eventually actually generate those models for
developers. That's so amazing because, let's face it, what you're talking about facilitating those tend to be very tedious steps in the process. Yes, right, and no one likes tedium. I mean, you know, I joke, Oh, what was that book with Major Major, Major Major, And there was the character who always hung out with people he didn't like because that would make time go slowly, right, they thought it we could actually live longer. This is like it's one of these weird of war books. But
you know, that's a person in a book who liked the tedium. Nobody likes nobody likes them, and it really it strikes it what I consider the most important aspect of any company. When your workers are just stuck in ruts, when they're trying to get through tedious things to meet unrealistic objectives and timelines, etc. That kills morale. But when you're moving along and getting things
done, that is awesome for morale. And so I look at how this AI manifests and facilitates these processes, and to me, it's just a tremendous morale booster. Right, it's absolutely eric. And one of the big issues many enterprises struggle with is actually hiring and retaining developers. That is a huge issue. We hear it from our customers all the time that developer retention and
talent development is incredibly difficult for them. So if they can use tools that let them really focus on the innovation and let them really focus on the interesting problems, that helps a bit with the talent gap. The movie was catched twenty two, by the way, it's a movie and a court. Yeah, that was just stuff. Yeah, but it's like it's like a coal pilot. I mean with gidthub they actually call it copilot pilot. Yeah,
right, and that's exactly what it is. So it's you've got a little helper along you're with you on your side saying hey, you should do this. Hey have you thought of that? What a great way to facilitate moving forward getting things done right? Yeah, I envisioned in my head is the same as like swiveling around in my chair and asking the person who sits behind
me, right, except it's right in my IDU. Yeah. So you know, I mentioned there are two ways that we use AI in the platform, and I want to get to the second one because I think it's really slick too. So for a long time, Mendex customers have been able to create what we call smart apps with publicly available APIs or things that they've written
themselves. We have a really close relationship with Amazon Web Services and they have a really rich set of AI associated services that Medix customers can take advantage of. So we have been helping customers deliver smart apps for a long time. But one thing that we noticed was that there are instances where customers have an existing trained machine learning model that they want to put in an app, and
there are a couple of reasons they might want to do that. They might want to do that because it represents IP and they have a better algorithm than a publicly available one. Or it's run on a very specific data set that they don't want to share and expose externally. They might want to do it because there are performance advantages or you know, price by service call advantages to actually doing it in the Mendix app. So with Mendix ten, we have
a feature called the Machine Learning Kit. Now, this enables somebody who has a machine learning model that's been trained, that's written in like PyTorch or a side tech to convert that into Onyx, which is a open I don't want to say open source, but it's like a common framework for mL. Yeah, exactly, and then they can actually run that model in a mendix app
natively. Wow, So you've got data scientists right who are like, I have this cool algorithm, but nobody can actually use it because I don't know how to build a UI for it. Or you have somebody that has a really sophisticated customer experience except it's not using the best possible intelligence to serve customers.
Mlpit is bridging both of those kinds of examples. Well, that's great too, because reusability is key, and if you can reuse something that was very helpful that was getting the job done, yes, you save it again, you save it a lot of time. Then of course you can track it and monitor it over time and realize after six months or a year if there's some model drift or it's not doing what you thought it was doing, or it's not doing things good enough yet, well then maybe you can go
ahead and rewrite that thing. But if you've got a functioning algorithm that's doing cool stuff, just basically use this approach to to beverage on it to be able to interpret that and then yeah, this is yeah, that's very cool. And that there again is the value of open standards, right, and of emphasis being placed on reusability, on being able to port from one environment to another, because you know, riven or place you know is borderline a
myth I think. I mean, it does happen, but typically you're just the these enterprise software landscapes. They're like a ripped and glue it back together with new stuff on top. Yeah. Sure, you know how like the ancient cities have cities on top of cities the cities, and that's kind of
what it's like. Although we are getting to the point now with things like process mining, and I'm sure you're familiar with all that where you can now see across these very formally opaque environments to understand what's happening, and then the question is what do we do to change that? And that's where mendix comes
into play, right, Yeah, absolutely. You know you've mentioned reusability a couple of times, and one of the features we have in Mendix ten is something we call the Solutions Kit. So the Solutions Kit helps us deliver composability
or the promise of the what Gartner versus the composable enterprise, right. The idea behind the Solutions Kit is it enables developers to IP protect certain modules of an app while they allow other parts of the app to be changed, adapted, or extended interest and that manages the lifecycle management across multiple versions of that app that might be across an enterprise or might be across a set of SaaS
customers in order to simplify things like upgrades and simplify things like longer term maintenance. And so you can imagine there might be a core of an app, maybe has again IP and a special algorithms something in it that is specific to the company's capabilities. But there might be customers who want different interfaces or different menu items, or want to do some sort of customization that is an absolute mess. Typically when you upgrade the underlying template, oh yeah, always be
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qualifications. Not all borrowers will qualify it. Terms and conditions. All right, folks, fucking all things that transformation. We're trying to transform our enterprises. We're trying to deliver new apps and new capabilities to stay on top of things. It's a fast moving world out there is everywhere. It is truly global. We've gotten through supply chain issues. Now we're dealing with large language models and AI. All this fun stuff is happening. How can you leverage
these technologies? How can you change your business? Well, our guests today know as a whole lot about that. We're talking to Earld Kennigsburg from MENDIX and before the break there we were joking, always be afraid of the upgrade, but you put in some safeguards in a way that's kind of like a governance storyline. I mean, it's not maybe what you were thinking of in terms of governance, but to be able to protect certain components of the enterprise
and then upgrade others, that's pretty powerful. And we do want to talk about this composable stuff. I actually we did a few shows earlier this year, in late last year. Is the future composable? And what that means, folks, is that you know, when you look at an SAP like the original earpiece that they sold or now of course Sporhana is their big push. It is a monolithic system, and that was the old way of buildings things. You have these big, monolithic applications, millions of lines of code
in some cases to do all kinds of different things. Well, SA, the service oriented architecture tried to move us away from that and did in terms
of how we think about things, how we compose services together. But now I think, largely because of Kubernetes, but also Docker and some other Mesosphere and some of these other folks doing interesting things have managed to really fundamentally change how we view products and services in the software world to where it's going to be much more composable, and that can be a lot more lean, and
it can be a lot more efficient. I mean, there are ways in which it is not as efficient as the old fashioned way of doing things, but it's so much more amenable to change, and I think that's the key. What do you think, Cheryl, This ability to be agile to change some part of your business quickly. I think that's one of the greatest benefits of this composable future. What do you think, absolutely the composable enterprise suggests
that that is organizationally, how your business is going to run. And then composable or a composition platform for technology delivery is just the kind of digital manifestation of that because you have to be able to model the those things digitally as well. So absolutely, it's definitely about agility. I mean, you know, twenty years ago it was the shift from waterfall to agile development, right, and we saw massive amounts of you know, change and productivity levels.
And you know, we still have a lot of organizations and customers may encounter who are still making that shift and still just starting to think about delivering a product versus delivering software. But composibility is you're right, it's kind of the that next level of getting to that of being able to adjust so quickly with what you're doing. I think composability is one of the key parts of how enterprises are going to keep up with this, and I think collaboration is the
other one. Oh, that's it. Let's talk about the new collaborative stuff.
And I just one last comment. Done, Yes, composibility, I think you're right about that because you think about you know, fearing the upgrade and you will have these big vendors, whether it's a database vendor or I mean, I remember the cloud era folks six seven years ago when they rolled out a new version and one of the analysts from Redmunk, when those folks are so smart, like all these people were just bloviating on and on, and then one of the analysts from Redmunk was like, can you just do
a clean upgrade from the last one to this one? And Michaelson was like no, Like, okay, guys, Like when you have to just go and reinstall the whole thing and shut it all down, I mean, those days are hopefully over because that is so disruptive to the organization. So if you take this composable approach, you won't have to do that. I mean, you may have to shut off a couple of services for you know a period of time, but theoretically you won't have to bring the whole house down
to do your maintenance. Yeah. I think that's true. I think that's true. And I also think that's true in the platform level like Medix ten you know, marks the next major version level for us, but we have commitments on how long you know, Mendix to support it, and we've identified ahead of time over the next two years, which versions will be supported for how long and what is the upgrade path look like? And you know,
I think you don't. You don't see that from everybody in our space because the decisions they've made, say architecturally or in terms of acquisitions where they've had to take new technologies in. But with Mendex, I think that kind of what when you admit to a low code platform is how you're going to deliver technology. You have to have a platform that is going to be as stable and reliable as the applications you're building on it and the expectations as end users
have. Well, so, yeah, absolutely agree with that. That's a good point, And I think you made a good point here about committing to a low code platform. So I look around and I see a lot of different vendors in this broader space. You know, you've got your zap Ears, You've got Rocado, You've got a bunch of different companies that are trying to kind of fill that void. And when I look at that that sort
of landscape, I see Mendex as a couple of key advantages. One of course, is this visual metaphor of being able to see what you're doing. But there are all these other things that you're talking about now, like collaboration. I mean, collaboration I think was a core benefit of this service, as I've said of your platform, but there's some new stuff in collaboration. What's that all about? Yeah, there is, so you know what I say, And thinking about how to place us with some of those other vendors
you've mentioned. I think we take the low code moniker sometimes and we apply it to anybody that has a dragon drop component to a technology they're delivering, right, and you should really be thinking about Mendex as low code enterprise application delivery, right. This is not about automating a connection to something or having a really simple approval flow. This is the next generation of how we will deliver software in the future, and collaboration is a huge piece of that.
So you know, one piece of it is within development teams. So we have moved over to get for version control now, which makes lots of long
standing developers very happy because they're super familiar with that technology. But that occurs on a very granular level within our application models, and so lots of developers can be working on the same model at the same time and then there is an actual visual tool we have not just for creating the logic, but also determining when you have to resolve a conflict where in the visual model is the
conflict. So get version control for collaboration with visual conflict resolution, which is just wild and it's really great to kind of watch with some demos on the website about that. And then there's collaboration outside of the core developer development team, right, So first you see some what we call fusion teams where you
have developers and business technologists working together. And that's very much what you were referring to earlier, where somebody without a traditional development background can look at a logic flow or look at a data model and understand what's going and so that's something that we've always supported. We're now moving around that development team to like, who's the product owner, right, who's the business owner? How do
we even decide which pieces of software we try to deliver? So we have for a long time had an in person workshop of yeah, around portfolio management, and that's now in the product So not the developers, but the people, you know, several several areas above them who need to think about which software should we deliver what's going to be the cost of delivering it? What's the ROI we can model that in the product. Now that is very very
interesting. So now what you're talking about is being able to have some strategic view of the codebase, of the various components that you have in place, what you're working on. And I'm guessing that if a company has been using Mendix for a period of time, that should get better and better because you can track you know, for example, how long it took to build this console, how long it took to build that module. You know, what
were the issues for rand Itto here and there. To be able to, especially for some of these larger organizations see across that whole landscape in and of itself is very interesting. But then to have meaningful insights on how long it will take and thus be able to make decisions for the roadmap. Right, That's what was it? The Scott hold and I think is the CMO for thought Spot And I was at their events, I guess like a year and
a half ago, and he joked, I just cracked me up. Someone said, oh, you know, how do you decide what's in the roadmap? And he kind of smile and he's like, you tell me, buddy, Like it's there's the hardest decision to make of where to focus your attention, especially as stuff like LM come out, because all of a sudden, it's like, all right, hold on, do we have to pivot to be able to focus on this or that? So having something that strategic baited
into a platform that is cool stuff. What is that called? Is there a name for that? Yeah, portfolio manager? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's really the beginning of us taking a lot of expertise that we have developed in our digital execution practice and bringing that expertise and product tizing it into the product. So you'll see more things like that over the next couple quarters from us. That is very interesting because again, you know, the
planning of what you're going to deliver and then of course exactly right. It sometimes takes longer, sometimes doesn't take us long, you know, but again, that stuff, as long as you're managing it within a controlled environment,
then you can track those kinds of things. Yeah. Yeah, And really, you know, people commit to roadmaps like that, like software development roadmaps based on anticipated value and to elect this helps you actually do the value realization calculations as well, like, these are the ones we took the chance on. Let's go back a year later, like, if we could do it again, knowing what we know now, did we pick the right ones?
Did we estimate these correctly? So yeah, it really helps organizations that way. Another thing, So that's an example of where we're giving a lot more visibility, higher up and more strategically in an organization to a Mendex program.
Another example is around app insights. So for a long time in the product, we've had a thing on the side that says feedback, And so if you're using an an application that's been developed on Mendex and you have some feedback, there's little button you click and you can take that in and you know, now you can actually also include a screenshot and circle some stuff that you
know, So we're really engaging the end user in that feedback loop. But the other thing we're able to do now is pop a little survey up in an app. So you've ever been on a website and it's like, did this answer your question? Or would you recommend this to a friend, or did you find what you were looking for? So we call those mini surveys, and so those can also be embedded in apps, right, which both
the proactive and reactive types of feedback. So the development team and business owner almost start to develop a better picture of the end user, almost start to have a relationship with the end user of the app based on what kind of feedback you get, and then we aggregate that so people can kind of look overall, like are these pages performing well? Like are people finding what they need? Is everybody saying some particular button is hard to find as it's the
wrong color? Right? It can be really simple or it could be a more complex piece of feedback that you arrive at. Now that's great. So you're closing the loop basically on feedback, right, yes, exactly, exactly, and over time will actually be able to you layer that with quantitative insights also. So these insights are very individual and qualitative, and we can aggregate
those. But if you can also look at something like time on page right, or bounce rate or you know, their application equivalents to those metrics, then you really have a full view of what's going on in your apps. Yeah, that's really cool, and just real quick, I want to get back to this ROI stuff. Oh yeah, So when you're able to over time as you suggest look back and say, okay, we spent three months
building this module, what have we seen from that? Able to then some of your clients track for example, our NPR score went up, or our customer sat went up, or the number of returns went down, these basic metrics that you're looking to track. When you can tie that to a particular application or a particular component that you've built, that gets very compelling because I can tell you ROI is always extremely difficult to determine because there's so many factors
involved and hours and opportunity costs and all kinds of things. But if you can start tracking you know how long it took it to do this and then be able to determine the value relevant to key metrics in the organization, that's like almost the holy ground. Yeah, so you know, it's it's interesting.
I tend to think about it as like first degree ROI and second degree ROI, and what I think by that is there's a metric of how much faster you can bring something to market and how much less time your developers spent to build something in development costs money. And so when you do that faster or in the same amount of time, you deliver twice the number of applications.
Right there is there is an ROI there, but then there's the second degree ROI, which is what is the actual degree of the value of the application that was delivered. And that's when you get into things like you like NPS and we certainly have had customers seem higher scores and all sorts of you know, external validatable things. Yeah. So there's there's the ROI and the
value realization of developer resources. But then there's the second degree one on the applications that are built like new customers acquired or marketing love first degree ROI and secondary ROI. Awesome stuff. Standby, folks, you are listening to d M radio. Do you own an annuity either fixed rate indextra variable? Are you paying high fees and getting low returns? If so, have this free
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two one eight eight hundred two five four three two one eight. That's eight hundred two five four thirty two eighteen paid for Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, Eric Kavanaugh. All right, folks, back here talking to Cheryl Kennicksburg, expert of Mendix, one of my favorite companies. I just love their approach and what they're doing, and now they're talking about Kafka
as well. I went down to the Confluent conference I guess last October and interviewed a bunch of fascinating people, and I'm really keen to figure out how Mendix is leveraging Kafka in the streaming technology because the hardest part with this stuff is that it is a whole different paradigm. We're not talking about adding some feature a component, but when you talk about a streaming first architecture, which is what some of these companies are doing, that is a whole different world
from everything else that we've done in the past. So how do you accommodate this stuff? The hardest part, I think with Kafka and streaming in general is that it is so different in terms of how you accomplish things. It's just as it's hard to fuse that to the old world systems essentially, But
maybe you can educate me on how you're doing that. And my point is that the streaming first architecture can do amazing things in new ways, but it's hard to kind of patch that into your old, clunky, bactor oriented system that has been doing all these other tasks. But maybe mendics figure something out. How are you guys leveraging Kafka, Well, it certainly is a good thing, Eric that we espouse composable technology, right or if something better comes
out, we can replace something old. So look like business events enabled by Kafka is a really obvious step for us because of the business it collaboration that we have always placed at the core of how we think about how people will use our product. So if you think about somebody in finance or somebody who's bringing a new product to market, like, they are not thinking about algorithm
number seventeen occurring, They're thinking of someone presses by now. And so the idea of being able to use business events to help business activities makes a lot more sense. Also when you think about like the architectures like the backed processes or polling, you know, from a performance perspective, given what we are asking a lot of software and algorithms to do these days, it's not the
right architecture for that. In many cases, that's right, thinking about things that are very transactional and that we're trying our best to model as close to
the business activity as we can. And so our event broker and business events falls for us under the category of mendex Connect, which also is where we have our data catalog and our drag and drop of external data because we think about you know, all of those things as you're building an app and you want data, right, and you want to be able to drag and drop that data into your app model, and you want to be able to drag and drop the concept of us stomer presses by now and then you want to
define what happens after they do that. Oh interesting, Yeah, that's cool. So this is a true event driven architecture as as can describe. And what's interesting is, yeah, you're you're abstracting away a lot of the technical jargon but getting to the meat of what's happening, which is customer did this right now. Business people can wrap their heads around that very very easily.
Yeah, I know what that's all about. You know, instead of calling for this algorithm pulling this like, right, what are you talking about? That's that's exactly right, and it's just you know, another way that we help business be able to like communicate with it and or developers and understand what's actually occurring. Now, much of what we've talked about today was kind of our classic logicum microflow editor. We also have the ability to create workflows.
So for us to workflow is a longer running event or logic process. So maybe something that is waiting for a manager to approve something or something that you know, there's some number of decisions we allow AI to make and then some have to get escalated to a human. So when you start to think about building those sorts of logic alongside business events, that's crazy powerful. That's that's very very interesting because again now you've abstracted away the complexity and allowed the business
to look at this as just another resource. And what's cool about copic of course, and these are there's a pulsar and flink, there are other ways that you can do these things. But what's cool about coficas that you have these topics that you subscribe to, and those topics can be subscribed to by any number of people. So some of the old world things we did, like etling from here to there, here to there, you don't have to worry about that. If you take this streaming first architect or seeve solve a
lot of those problems. But by enabling a sort of plug in play paradigm for this kind of technology. That's very interesting because streaming solved problems that you know, all these other applications have had difficulty dealing with over the years. And so if you can, if you can kind of solve that impedance mismatch, which is really what you're doing, that opens all these doors to other things that can be done. And now the business people like, wait a
minute, so you're telling me that that can be in events. When the customer logs on to the site, that can be an event. When they call into the call center, that can be an event. And it's like, if you know, being able to track customer churn or just customer sentiment, it's like, Oh, someone's on the website, they were just having all kind of issues. They called in, they hung up. Oh no, it's high value customer call them back right, Yeah, it's that person.
Hey, we notice you're having some trouble. We'd like to help you out that program. When you when you show that kind of responsiveness, that is so huge for customer satisfact action, for keeping customers, and also just forgetting your own business done. Right. Yeah, I think that's true. And you know, we've looked at a lot of research that ties employee satisfaction
to customer satisfaction. Interesting, So you know, you and I have talked a lot today about external customers, which I think we often think about as the end game because it feels like there's all this business out there that we want to attract digitally, but having similarly thoughtful digital experiences for our employees is also really important, right, And like a really simple example, like I know, I've definitely been on the phone with somebody in a call center and
they say to me, my computer is so slow today. I'm really sorry, this is taking so long, right, So they're having a bad experience it to me, which is now causing me to have that experience right right. Or you know, I had a carpet cleaning guy at the house a couple of weeks back, and like he's like, well, I didn't know I was supposed to pick something up. Doesn't say that in the app.
And I'm like, well, I'm the customer, Like I take this dirty rug, Oh my lord, I talked to the lady on the ball, right, so that the care with which we think about and talk about end user capabilities and experiences should be mirrored and how we also think about our employee experiences because that's all connected for the end user. I love that this is a big theme of mine as well, and it's why I always talking about morale and the importance of morale. Yes, and when morale is high in
the company, yeah, then good things happen for customer service. I mean it's a direct conduit from the employee to the experience that the customer is having. And so when you help that call center, and this gets back again to event driven architectures right and streaming, because if you're at a call center, you better be getting that information real time. You can't be waiting like it doesn't help you ten minutes later after you hung up the phone. Oh
oh that's what he was upset about. Yeah, that doesn't do anything for anyone, that's right. And to go real time other ways can be crazy expensive and very fragile and security risky in nature. So you know, being able to move these incredibly specific, highly technical skill set people that are really hard to find. So coming back to that talent discussion. Right to be able to support that on more of a general purpose platform, we think is
really important because again you can't you can't find that Unicorn developer. Yes, that's really hard to hire them. That is very, very true. And so we are in this new or we need to be much more cognizant about the developer experience, as you talked about about the customer experience and how this all threads together, and then you know, strategically being able to leverage his portfolio manager. I'm very excited about that because, let's face at, the
job of a CIO or a CTO is a hair raising job. I mean, these days especially, there are so many things you need to be able to keep track of and monitor and understand and watch and you have to trust that people are doing what they say they're doing. So having that strategic view I think is really quite impressive, and it puts you in a category I think that is very sparsely populated. I don't think there are many vendors that
had to have all that functionality. So sixty seconds left closing thoughts from you, we just invite everybody to come on over to mendex dot com and take a look at the new product free trial downloads, So go ahead and check it out yourself, or head over to our videos and take a look if you're not quite ready to get hands on keyboard. We're really really excited and
proud about the tenth generation of the product. And you know, we know that when people see it and start to use it, they'll feel the same way. Yeah. I love it. It brings developers and business people together. It solves the IT business chasm that we've dealt with for years and years, and folks, you've got to be able to collaborate with your teams to figure out what's built next and what to do next because the world is changing very very quickly. But folks, send me an email if you want to
be in the show. Info at DM radio adopt bis that comes right to me. Thank you for your time. You've been listening to DM Radio. Casey AA is your CNBC News affiliate where the station that gets down to business. Now, here's a new concept, digital network advertising, where businesses display your ad inside their building. If a picture is worth of a thousand words, your company is going to thrive with digital network advertising. Choose your marketing
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