From Fear to Confidence

You grow when you're, when you force yourself out of your comfort zone to do hard things. Um, and I think that every time we get up and speak or do something like that, it helps us and it makes you better. Even now, like it, you know, as, as you experienced as we are at it, like. Every time you do it, it becomes easier. Welcome to our industrial advisors podcast. You have Bill Condon and Matt McGregor. And one of my favorite all time guests that we've ever had. Maren McGregor.

Maren is a sophomore at Clemson. And, uh, You said it with the P, good job. Hey man, I'm like, you know, I'm like family, right? That's right. Yes. I've known Marin since she was a little, little girl and watched her really develop over the years into this amazing, amazing person, uh, who is extremely talented, a lot of different things. Our topic today is, uh, fear of public speaking. And it's great to have Marin on because Marin.

Um, had a real fear of public speaking, uh, early on in her life, I would say, and kind of, you know, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, probably, and I'll let you talk more about it, um, and, and has overcome that, and we'll talk about some of the successes, but it's a really cool story, so great to have you on, Maren, um, couple

stats before, We kind of jump into it. Um, you know, fear of public speaking is probably the number one fear, um, out there right in in society today. So it's a really good topic. I think to talk about. We all have stories about how we've overcome certain fears of public speaking. So happy to jump right into this. Yeah, great. Well, I'll kick off with mine.

Uh, unfortunately, Marr inherited it from, maybe from me, but, uh, certainly, uh, it's not a genetic thing, but, but I had it. And I had it due to my upbringing. So, as many of the listeners know, you certainly know that I have dyslexia. And they put me in a program at St. Luke's, uh, for dyslexia. But a lot of the nuns, there was only one class out of the six you took that was really for it. The other ones, you were just in the classes with the, and back then, nuns were the teachers.

And so, I remember, like, it would be my turn to read and we'd all be reading a book and You know, each person would have a paragraph, right? And I would be counting the people trying to figure out my paragraph because I was dyslexic and was a terrible reader. So I'd be going, okay, there's six people, you know, freaking out, trying to read, trying to figure out which paragraph would be mine. And then I would go over it, like, you know, ten times and try to master it.

And then, of course, like, the girl in front of me would take five paragraphs. Overachiever, right? Yeah. And then completely throw me off. I'd be in a panic. Next thing, I'm up in the corner. Like, literally, they'd think you were screwing around or whatever. They put you up in the corner. It was like torment, right? So I developed a big issue with public speaking to the point where I would sweat dry throat. You know, I just wasn't good at knowing where I was going to go in my career.

That wasn't the option, right? That couldn't happen. So early on in my twenties, I signed up for Toastmasters, which basically you can go to different, different Toastmasters. Back then they'd meet at like Denny's restaurants or wherever. And there'd be a dozen people, a lot of lawyers would do it, getting ready for their trials. And so they'd, they would want to speak in front of people. And so this is, it's a national organization called Toastmasters. You can get on toastmasters. com.

You can go to different formats all over the place and they'll meet. I did that. And then I did a 12 week course on public speaking with Dale Carnegie. Dale Carnegie obviously passed away a long time ago, but he's most known for Overcoming the fear of public speaking. So I did the 12 week course, loved it so much that I then worked for the organization for about a year after that and helping instruct those courses. Through that, I would say it covered 90 percent of it.

And then it was, you know, then it was just repeating, doing constant conferences and it probably took another 10 years after that to really rid it. Cause there's a lot of baggage that came with it. Uh, you know, so that's how the, my, my history with. The fear of public speaking.

What about yours, Mari? Yeah, well, funny enough, I wasn't, like, originally scared of public speaking at all, just because I've always been a pretty confident kid, like, always knew who I was, you know.

My mom made me do pageants when I was young, so that's kind of, like, The biggest public speaking that you can do in that age and it started, I mean, you think fifth grade or so, I don't really remember it that way, but I have a key memory in seventh grade of I never really prepared for presentations. I was kind of always like, I'm just going to do this. Like, I'm confident on the fly.

And I was, In a group presentation with another girl in my grade and we were doing some sort of historical presentation in front of a really small class like 16 people and I remember standing up there and I had my note cards and just all of a sudden like I started freaking out in the middle of it, you know, I'd gotten up there. It was fine. I started shaking and my throat got really tight and my mouth got dry to the point where I When I heard myself talking, I was like, Oh, I sound really bad.

Like, people can definitely tell I'm nervous, which makes it so much worse when you think that other people think you're nervous, even though mostly they don't realize.

So that's kind of my key memory of where it started, and I feel like the fear just kind of snowballed from there to the point where I thought every presentation or every time I spoke in front of a group, everyone could tell how nervous I was, which Originally, I'm sure they couldn't, but since it got so bad, I'm sure they could to the point in my senior year, um, obviously during covid, we didn't really have to practice public speaking being on zoom. So that fear kind of got pushed under.

And since I didn't have to confront it at all, I didn't think about it until going back to school, you know, here and there with junior year, but there wasn't as much yeah. Talking in class, um, until senior year, I was in a marine biology class, and best teacher ever, Mr. Finn, I loved him, super engaging. Mr. Finnegan. Yes, best, yes. He's awesome. The best, he's awesome, yes. Great teacher. Amazing. Amazing person. Mm hmm. At the best high school in America. Exactly, exactly, yeah.

So he was incredible in the way that he kept us engaged was kind of in an elementary way of popsicle sticks So he would put everyone in the class's names and like a little jar with popsicle sticks and he would call on us So review stuff we knew yeah last class. So Oh Ava, you know the octopus has whatever like stuff like that And so My fear had gotten so bad that, and again, this class is small high school, Blanchette. Yeah. All, all friends in my class. My boyfriend was in the class.

I sat at a table with some of my best friends. This wasn't like a scary situation, but it had gotten so bad to the point where If I knew I was going to have the chance of being called on, I would have so much anxiety, all class, that I couldn't even focus. And I didn't know what we were talking about because the entire class, similar to you, saying you were counting, I was just waiting to be called on. So, so stressed.

And it gave me such anxiety that I remember leaving class sometimes, pretending I was sick. Like, going and sitting in my car. Like, I just was totally Paralyzed by just the thought of being called for a one word answer that I knew the answer to like every time someone else was called, I was like, I know what the answer is.

Um, and I remember I told my dad this and I was struggling with this in English class too with popcorn reading like such bad anxiety about having to read again in a class full of all of my good friends. Yeah. Um, so we were sitting on my bed and.

Since it was my senior year, I had my tassel on my bed and I remember he had taken it and like twisted it up a bunch and he was like this is how you're feeling right now, super tight and we just need to like unravel that anxiety so for a little why don't you just ask to not be called on so I did which was really embarrassing for me having to email my teachers as a senior especially as someone who was seen as like a confident kid being like can you not call me in class and so They were super

nice, super understanding, you know, Mr. Finn is awesome, Ms. Christensen, my English teacher, she was totally understanding, they were great, um, and so, that definitely helped to minimize just taking a minute and being like, okay, I don't have to worry about that anxiety, like, I don't have to have the thought. Of getting called on, but we knew that that wasn't going to work forever. You can't just push it away. Not a long term solution.

And I also know that, you know, I probably want to be in development or real estate. So, like you guys, public speaking is a really important skill. Um, so, I don't know. I would say it followed me through freshman year a little. I feel, well, maybe as a transition to that, so that's what happened. Yes, that's the backstory. You know, and we'll get to, you know, where you're at now, but what did you do to start overcoming it?

I think that it was really a struggle for a while, but I would, you know, try, I tried to do a lot of stuff, like the deep breathing and the, a big reminder I would always tell myself is no one's like paying attention and no one really cares. And the biggest thing I remember at the end of my freshman year of college, I had a pretty big presentation for a music class.

Um, That I was so nervous for and I was just like Reminding myself that no one else can tell how nervous I am because my biggest anxiety was always Since my throat would close that my voice was really shaky and I always Thought other people could hear that and so I just decided to talk really loud And slow and I think that helped a lot and I Got a lot of praise. Like a lot of people were like, that was a great presentation. You know, you're great at speaking.

And so I think through that, I reminded myself, no one knows how nervous I was, but I still knew I needed to figure out the anxiety beforehand. Cause that type of anxiety can be really debilitating. Like I was at the point where if I knew I had a presentation, even a month away, it was coming up at least once a day or every other day thinking about it and the anxiety of it, which. is not a way to go about things, um, but the biggest thing was this year.

So Clemson, this is pretty amazing that they do it. They require you to take a public speaking class. Yeah, it's great. Once throughout your four years, you can do it first semester freshman, last semester senior, which I don't know why you would want to do that. But, um, it's a public speaking course and you.

Basically, have this class, you know, you learn about different type of, like, commencement speeches, stuff like that, different speeches, humor, all of that, and through the course, you give to your class about five speeches. And all of them, except for one, are on note cards that can only have a certain amount of words. Um, so nothing's, like, memorized, it's kind of partially on the fly, partially. You've practiced it before.

Yeah, and that Made all the difference in the world like I told my teacher this after I finished her class I was like, I never thought that I could get to the point of Where I finished in your class just being able to stand up and give an eight minute speech with a couple of note cards About difficult topics. They weren't all just, you know fun. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's incredible.

I mean You know the story is you know, you recognize like you had a real fear right and And took a little bit of time off and then jumped into it, right? You didn't like, stay out of it, you know, so you jumped in and then, um, have developed this really good sense for doing it, right? Um, I remember for me, like, the first time I was really, I've, I've, I've never been like, fearful of getting in front of people and talking, but I was really nervous.

The time I was named, um, managing director at like 27 or 28 years old and going into this company with a bunch of people that have been in the industry for 25 or 30 years, and I was going in getting introduced as this, like, you know, the leader of this, you know, basically organization where. You know, I'm walking in five, six years into the business, and I thought a lot about, like, what do I want my message to be?

And, and ultimately, I just went in and was like, I'm going to be just authentic as can be and true to myself. And, you know, if people want to buy in, great. If they don't, you know, that's OK. We'll find a new place to go to work. But, like, just staying true to, like, what you believe and not trying to be somebody that you're not just being as authentic as you can, I think, is super helpful. Thanks for calling. in those situations for sure. But yeah, I remember that.

I was like the new that that the young new person and I was like what do I, what do I want to do here, and I was nervous about that. Yeah, and you had a few people in there that were 50, 60s that certainly you know challenged you from a perspective of who the heck are you? Yeah, yeah I've been doing, you know, and like that's just natural. Like people fear change and. Someone comes in and like, you know, I've been doing this 30 years. You've been doing it five. What can you tell me?

You know, it's like, you know, that's not uncommon, but but it is really so how do you like your friends like your peer?

Your peers, right? Yeah. Are they nervous about this stuff or do you think like society is getting better at it? I still feel like it's a really big fear in people.

It's a big I think it's for sure Like the number one fear and I think we're getting worse just because of so much technology I think it takes out A lot like a lot of probably even conferences that would happen in your guys's industry are happening on zoom whereas they used to happen in person and I feel like That takes out some of the anxiety because you're not standing in front of a room. I think that people are more isolated than they used to be just because of social media and everything.

So, kids my age are way more anxious than probably when you guys were, you know, your guys age, just in general. Yeah, and the pandemic too. You made that point earlier. That, that was hard. I mean, for, for your era and, you know, give or take two to three years each way. Right. Like that was impactful for sure. Yeah. I mean, I would say it was mostly impactful for the kids, but it even took us being brokers, presenters.

Out of practice for a while, because when I just did this recent keynote Yeah. I realized, wow, it's been a while since I've been on a stage. Yeah. Right. Because you and I used to do it all the time. Yeah. Had and then really did. You had been on, but it hadn't been that long. I mean, through Covid, we weren't on stages. Right. But so you kind of, after the pandemic, like that keynote that you just gave, which I just gave a keynote at this.

Huge conference, the Massimo Con, that's what it's called. Yeah, it was great, but in prepping for it, like, I would say prior to COVID, you and I were getting on stages, like, you know, Maren, giving speeches, a few times a year at least, right? Yes, yeah. And then all of a sudden we went through a few years there. Where we weren't going to conferences and not getting on stages. So to my point, that was the first big one I realized I had done in quite some time. Yeah, that's a good point.

I mean, I did it a couple times last year.

Yeah, because it's a few of those nerves came back and I was like, well, I thought I shook that it's like It's like a good It's like yeah the kind you get before a football game or when you're playing or a sport or whatever like you played basketball You know, you get that nervous energy before the game and then it's like the whistle blows and it's like game on let's go Yeah Um, so yeah, yeah, but I think doing it just like, and I told Carly, like, you know, when

Carly went to high school and college, I gave her the same advice, like, you know, this is Bill's daughter, Carly. Yeah. Sorry. Not everybody knows about this. Senior at Gonzaga. But I, I told her like, Hey, just challenge yourself to get out of your comfort zone. Right. That's how, that's when you grow. Right. People talk about it all the time and it's really true. Yeah. You, you, you grow when you're, when you force yourself out of your comfort zone to do hard things. Totally.

Yes. And I think that every time we get up and speak or do something like that, it helps us and it makes you better even now, like it, you know, as, as you experienced as we are at it, like every time you do it, it becomes easier. Mara gave us a term for the exposure therapy. Yeah, that was a term that my, I was like sitting there when you guys were talking, I was like, I know, cause my teacher, my.

A public speaking teacher had said it, and I'd heard it before, but I kind of was always like, oh, it's one of those, like, another whatever therapy, like, term. Um, and it's so true, though. Like, the more that I spoke, that was the biggest thing, is I could tell myself to do the deep breathing and, you know, tell myself no one cares, which all helps a little bit, but the, really the biggest thing was practicing beforehand.

Like, I would sit in my room, sit in the mirror, record myself, time myself. At least seven times to the point where I was like, I could do this in my sleep and then just doing it like there was, I mean, to your question of do you think it's a big fear? Yeah, there was kids in my public speaking class who could couldn't do the speeches, you know, wouldn't be there on the day they did the speeches. There was a couple like, Stumbling and just having to stop overall. And I get that.

Like I totally felt for them because we, a lot of us have that same anxiety. And so I think that just getting up there and doing it, even though it's so uncomfortable and scares you was the biggest thing that helped me like just doing it over and over mean like, yeah, this sucks, but like I have to do it eventually. And so, yeah.

That helps. Before we close with your, you know, current successes, I will tell the listeners two things in addition to what you said that helped me a lot. Number one is, I think everybody knows this, but don't ever memorize a speech, okay? Start with a story, a personal story, because those are so easy to tell. And audiences love personal stories. So that can relax you.

And going into it, if you're behind stage or you're in the queue and you're next up and your heart starts going, mention breathing.

Before I learned something called square breathing a long time ago where you take a slow breath in for eight seconds You hold the breath for eight seconds and you release the breath breath for eight seconds and you're breathing in a square It literally reduces your heart rate and so you can take a high heart rate down through square breathing very quickly Relax yourself Boom, go tell the personal story and then you're, you're in the groove. Yeah. You know, that, those two things helped me a lot.

So if you guys ever see me on stage, you will hear a personal story first. Yeah. Every time. Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about SIP. You, you mentioned that speech class at Clemson, um, but you, you, you, um, advanced. Yeah. Into something else. And then you are now, correct me if I'm wrong, cause I love bragging on you, but I believe You're the only sophomore being, uh, looked at now through the final set for the sales and innovation program for the traveling team. I don't know about that. There's a possibility of that, but I don't know who else is. You might not be the only sophomore.

Right. Okay, I see. We don't know. But you're in the final round. Yes. Yes. So, we'll see. Or six people for the traveling team? Probably, yeah, small group. Yeah. Very small group. Okay. So, yeah, but, um, yeah, with the class, it, really the class was life changing, clearly, because I'm talking about it a lot.

But, I had such a sweet teacher, Miss Peichel, and she, Had pulled me aside after, um, my informative speech, which was, or persuasive speech, so we got to pick a topic and then try to persuade the audience. You had to cite, uh, peer reviewed articles, all of that. And I chose to do my speech on, um, How influencers are promoting like materialism and just overconsumption, which was a really fun topic to research. I felt like it was very relevant, you know, having like TikTok all of that.

Um, so after I gave it in class, she told me that I should submit it for Clemson's public speaking competition, which is called Tiger Speak Out, and they do it. Once a semester, um, through the classes. So you write your persuasive speech for the class, give it, and then you can submit it and go through. So I had submitted my outline that I wrote and I made it through the first round, which I was shocked. I really just did it to kind of appease her, um, and tell her that I did it.

And then I filmed myself over Thanksgiving break giving it. Got through the second round, which again, I was shocked by because that was a one take too. I did it and I was like, well, we'll see if it's good enough. Um, because honestly, in my heart of hearts, I really didn't want to do the public speaking competition because that is terrifying to me. Um, so I got through and made it to.

The finals, which there was six of us in the finals, and I think there had been like a hundred applicants and I prepared a bunch, you know, I'd given this speech probably 15 times at this point in front of my friends, in front of my class, to myself, to my family, and I put on my suit, walked in, my friends came to support me, and I walked in, And it was this massive auditorium. Like I was not ready. I about died. I thought it was going to be a few people.

I thought, I'm like, no, I'm like, who's coming to watch the little public, like, yeah, like, I was like, I, as a student, wouldn't want to watch the student public speaking competition, like. Sorry, that's not, you know, what I want to do, um, but it was full. There was probably a couple hundred people there. So I walked in. I was like, Oh, like there was mics and everything like these. And I was just not prepared for that.

But I think that was actually a good thing that I didn't know how serious it was. It was filmed, put on YouTube and everything. And I was super nervous, obviously. But. And I could tell the kids next to me were too because, you know, they're just like sitting there like this. So I was just like, I'm going to make this as casual as possible, talk to the girl next to me. And I was fifth out of six speakers, which is, I would have preferred to have gone first, you know, get it over with.

So I'm like sitting there like, sitting there like, oh my god, please, like, you know, totally like shaking.

Um, and I was telling my dad this, I had gotten up and you Every person had their own, or we had to share the same mic pack, so we switched, and I was, my hands were shaking, I had these acrylic nails, and I couldn't get the thing, so the whole audience is hearing, so I'm like, oh my god, like, this couldn't be any worse, and I stand up there, like, in the middle, hundreds of people watching, and as soon as I started speaking, no nervousness, like, it

was, and that was the first time that's happened since fifth grade, so, and, Yeah, I'm on, like, the biggest stage too.

Right, yeah, and, I felt so good, like I was like, I wish my speech was longer, because I just want to keep speaking, like I felt very confident, very powerful, um, and I got last place, I got 6, and I did not care, like, I, my friends, like, brought me flowers, and they were like, you deserve more, like, you did so good, and I was like, I don't care, because the fact that I did it, and felt good while doing it, I was like, I could have gotten 100.

6 But yeah, I was going to say, like, you're up there with the top people. So, you know, whether you were first, second, sixth, fifth, like, you know, you're up there. Yeah, good job. Thank you. Yeah.

Well, that's a wrap, Maren. Great job. Thank you very much for being on the podcast. Thanks to the listeners. Yeah. Happy Friday.