Indigenous Wisdom Conversations: Coming Back to Truth with Todd Thomas Brown

Julia Carmen 0:04 Hola, beautiful light beans, Mira le today, I'm back with part two of my conversation with my friend Todd Thomas Brown, if you missed our first chat or our first cheese man, get some COVID. Cafecito. Yeah, look back at episode 103. And Mira. It was a good one. Oh, my goodness, it was so good. So we're back for more, right? Yeah, today we continue the themes of that conversation, and we talk about coming back to truth. Wow, yeah, reflecting light to each other and the art of listening, along with so much more, if conversations like these feed you in the respect of remembrance of your soul self of being a great way to experience even more of this in person. Oh my gosh, I'm giggling because I'm so excited, is by joining one of our retreats. And actually, we have one coming up. Actually, it's winter in February 2026 and the retreat is in the beautiful Mendocino County, California. Oh, I can go on and on here, but we need to get on with the show, right? Well, I'd love to invite you to join us there, and so you could find out more about this retreat on our website, the schoolwithoutwalds.net Okay, now for today's conversation with Todd, let's dive in right now. Yay. I feel that that which is the truth, however you see it, and how not you, but the big you, right? It is so unbelievable, not unbelievable, but it's so cool that I just, every day, I just kind of go, huh? This is going to be an interesting day. I get to do X, Y and Z, fully present in both worlds. That's where everything comes from. Speaker 1 2:17 The thing I think that gets overlooked is, and this seems common in a lot of different people and spiritual paths. You know that you know to have an insight, like if you have, especially if you have a profound insight, you know where you really a bodily experience of of deep well being or connectedness, that whatever insights we might have, or you know, Revelation, relevation, comes into us, you know, it comes into a particular being. And you know that has a that has a particular background in a collective background, you know, so Sydney Banks was Scottish born, his insights, he ends up expressing, by no coincidence, in English, right? Because speaking another language and and the metaphors and the in in the the tone and mannerisms and everything are totally in alignment with the cultural background that he comes out of. And the trouble is, is that what's very common is that people want to universalize their insight, you know, and especially when it's coming out of groups or individuals that are coming out of a dominant culture, you know, historically dominant culture, it just it repeats a pattern, you know, that that's happened throughout history in the same way that missionaries went to, oh yeah, Africa went to the Americas and so on to bring the Word of God. You know, it's a person or a group that believes to have the answer and what we lose. And the thing is, in in so many spiritual traditions, there's such genuine insights and knowledge wisdom that has happened. But I find it so much more helpful to to think of it if I have an insight or, you know, something that feels very meaningful to me. I think of it as like a piece of the puzzle, you know? It's like I can feel like I have a really good piece, you know, but it's a piece of the puzzle. I only have a piece and I need, I need, I can share my peace, but when I do that, I'm not looking to spread or teach some truth. I'm just like offering say, you know, this, this piece, I feel like there's something really meaningful here. Tell me, what do you see? And you enter into dialog. You you. Enter on a level platform of exchange with other others, and that's what becomes, you know, dynamic, and that's that's often what's what's missing, you know, and for me, a real appreciation for that kind of, you know, for came out, it was my learning about the Zapatista movement in southern Mexico. And you know, a common saying in zapatismo, you know, about creating a world in which many worlds fit, you know, rather than saying, Oh, I found the truth, let me bring the truth to the world. You know, that's just another pattern of conquest, right? Julia Carmen 5:44 Yeah. That's, yeah, well, that's the over culture. The over culture, basically, is whatever, you know, somebody was mentioning, what do you mean about over culture? Anywhere you live, yeah. Could be here in the United States, whoever's running things. Could be in a family that the person's, you know, the one that's dictating what is right. So that's it's so true. Me, hope you know, like, that's why, and I think we're saying the same thing, yeah, me holding different words. It's like, come to school without walls. It ain't about me teaching you shit because you already know it. It's about the awakening of self, of the truthfulness of self that is real, not not, you know, like, yeah, you know, it's teaching one day and and somebody says, Man, Julia, I'm gonna go follow you. I said, Hell no, don't follow me. I don't even follow myself. That's dangerous, you know, follows in that truthfulness of self, right? So what you're saying then Mexico, right? What it's it's coming back to that which is truth, not, yeah, because religion is always I was involved in two religions my life. I never regretted any of them, but I knew consciously that it was a great place to hide out. I felt safe in both of those while I was there, but I also knew that whoever was running the show was running it through their own eyes of being right. So I just kind of okay, I'm gonna hang out here. It's a good place. And then when I was pow, I said, Okay, I'm gonna move over there and do my thing. So what you know, like what you're saying Todd, somebody might look at that and go, Okay, I need to go do that religion over there, or do that, because so and so Todd's doing that. I better do what Todd says. And I think it's a human thing for people to be looking for something that, quote, unquote, is going to save them or help them find a way of being. And what's so cool about the understanding that we are innately healthy, innately everything within it's we're born with, it is that no one has the answers but you self, and that's what I love. Work, you know, hanging with folks, and I'm sure you do the same thing. You have seen you in action. It's not about you teaching anybody anything, or like you shared that one where, and Scott's doing well, where the gal shared that story. What you did was that trauma, that trauma she had. What she did was invited her to see herself in her fullness. She would have never seen that if you were trying to fix her, you know. And that's what happens with a lot of folks there. I'm a grandmother and a great grandmother, and sometimes my grandchildren are fussing about something, and I'll find myself going, Oh, if I do this or I do that, blah, blah, blah, and then I'll go, oh, Julia, you're forgetting. You're forgetting something because you love them so much and you don't want to see them suffer even one little, teeny, tiny, teeny weeny bit. But trust that they know. Just trust that they know. And I go, Yeah, I do. Trust that they know. And then I get quiet. And then the answer comes on, how to guide them back home to self, like when I work with Mavis, and I if I get flustered in my human self, I'll give her a call, and we are on the phone for maybe, oh, 510 minutes, max, and she'll say, you home now. Nice. I am home, I am home, I am home, and we laugh and I'm off and running, because we need that, right? Mijo, we need someone, no matter how much we see an either world, no matter how educated we are, no matter how much you know of a good and better one is, or whatever you want to call that non physical realm or all one. We always, as long as we're in human form, we need each other, and I try to surround. Myself with folks like yourself. Yeah, no, no, nothing on anyone else. But if I see someone coming my way, that's that's interesting. I don't even attract those folks anymore, which is kind of nice. But if, if there is somebody you know, usually it's a family member, I'll go, huh? Jules, stay in your lane, and if they get in your lane, politely invite them out. And then I find that life is so much more easier that way. Speaker 1 10:32 Going back to something earlier, you said, and it popped into my mind a few times was, you know, I love, there's a wonderful quote by James Baldwin, I don't, I don't know exactly, but you know, to paraphrase, you know, he just says that, you know, love is really our ability to reflect a person's light back to them. You know, this is what we do for each other, and it's certainly something that I've needed throughout my life, there's been very poignant moments where friends have done it for me. You know, because I don't, I don't live a balanced spiritual life for the equanimity I've quite a I go through quite a bit of turbulence. You know, it's helpful to me. Like to hear your stories about things I did in the past that were helpful to others. You know, that's reflecting my light back to me. That reminds me. It says, Yeah, Todd, you you know, Todd, good, and that is good. And then sometimes it also, I find that there's moments when I'm able to step up to the plate and be of service sometimes, and in a way, to others that I don't do for myself, you know, like they're put me on a stage in front of people, and I can get really quiet, like my mind can get really quiet, but leave me sitting on the sofa in my own living room and doing it, you Know, Like, and I think they're funny. And I because, of course, I work in the arts, so I look to the arts as a way of trying to understand that. And I see, you know, you see with, you know, artists that go up on stage and do and move people, they're able to, they're able to tap into a spirit and energy. But that doesn't mean they're walking around in their life with that spirit and energy you know, sometimes in that, that context, you know, sometimes a situation does can command us or invite us into a deeper part of ourselves. Now, if, if we can go there. You Julia Carmen 12:41 know what? I those of you will have it in the show notes. Todd, I love your writings. I every time you put something out there. You folks listening in, if, if, let me see. How do I put this? It's poetry, but yet it's insightful, and it's information, it's it's all those things, and I'm like, I feel like I'm on a journey, you know? So when I see some of your writings, because it'll come through every now and then, yeah, I'll go, I need to sit down. I need to sit down because I get a cup of tea, because Todd's going to take me for a ride here. And let's see what kind of ride he's going to take me out. No, the it's like your artwork, yeah. I mean, Todd, if I could, I would buy all your paintings. I'm a cuckoo lady. I love art. And yeah, so it's Yeah, definitely. And you're dancing your tango and all the Argentine Tango and all of that. Well, Speaker 1 13:47 the writing is definitely something for, gosh, for like 20 years now, I've had people telling me I should publish, and I still haven't done Yes, I keep getting that message reflected back to me. So Julia Carmen 13:56 come on, Todd, Unknown Speaker 14:00 all right, you've planted the seed. Julia Carmen 14:02 No, I didn't. I'm watering it. The seed has been planted. I've thrown some more water on it. There's Unknown Speaker 14:11 a whole lot of seeds that have been planted there. Julia Carmen 14:14 Exactly, I would say I didn't plant no seed, yeah, do you know what? And I'll send you a picture of it. You gave me a housewarming gift when I moved to Hawaii in oh two, and it's a little, tiny, little frame, and I'll maybe put it in the show notes. Todd, there are a few things. And isn't it interesting how we do not know how impactful we are as beings in the non physical, you know these two worlds that we walk in, right? So everywhere I move, there's certain pieces of whatever I take. I take, like five or six things. That little art piece that you gave me when I moved to Hawaii in oh two has gone with me at every. Place I have lived since then. Wow. I took it to Montana. I look, I always keep it in a place where I could see it, and because it's when you were doing those chickens. Remember that one, that one I left in Hawaii, because a little bit, yeah, and so. And then you just kind of sit here, here, Julia, here's a going away gift, so, you know, for Hawaii and safe travels or something. I said, okay, and it's hanging right by my well, I'll show you where it's at at some point. So I just want to let you know that you're one of five pieces that I take with me everywhere. I know, right? And that's something, huh? Yeah? Because everybody says, what is that? So is my friend Todd. And they go, because I have two friends that are taught, and I said, Oh no, the other Todd, you know, Todd B and Todd, the other one. And they go, Oh, okay. And they said, and it's funny how people think, and they'll go, is he like, a boyfriend or something? I said no, he's so he's a really good friend. Because Could you take that picture with you everywhere, as Unknown Speaker 16:07 if he's a friend that likes intimacy wink Julia Carmen 16:13 Exactly? Because I thought I'd no no, no, he's no. I mean, yeah, no, you know, like, no, yeah. So anyways, I just, you know, that's the impact we have on each other. We don't even know, yeah, you know, yeah, it's kind of cool. So I really, mijo, really seriously, your your writings, yeah, that whole thing about same here I have a book that I've been writing, and I've hired people to help me, editors, this set and whatever. And everyone's that i It's my work, right? And folks, my students, go, when's the book coming? This is it. And every time I put up I, you know, it's in Montana in May, and I gave them a page out of the book that I use at every retreat Todd every retreat, there isn't one that I don't use. It's the four frequencies of vibration, yeah, and I'm telling you, I put it on a piece of paper. I changed a couple words. I call it soul listening. It's all, I just changed the title soul listening, right? All of them go, I've not heard this before. I said, Excuse me. No. Why? Why have I not heard this before? What? This is new, right? All eight people said that time. So I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying, Unknown Speaker 17:49 you guys share it with me. Julia Carmen 17:51 Oh, yeah, I'll send it to you. Yeah. I mean, it'll look familiar. I just changed a few things, but, but I mean, it's Todd I've been teaching that even when I was teaching at the Wellness Center, yeah, Speaker 1 18:02 listening, I was just, it was just occurring to me. Listening is something that keeps coming back to me. It's just, you know, when I, when I try to, like, I got invited to be a part of a conversation with a friend of mine from the Congo with students, film students with his and, you know? And I try to reflect, to think of what are the very core, core elements that help to make things happen. And I come back to listening, you know, and because we it gets so little airplay? No, because culturally we have, we have all kinds of examples, you know, like, think of social media and everywhere, everybody talking and and because listening is such a peculiar thing, how do you make a dynamic video of somebody listening? How do you, how do you capture that on video? Julia Carmen 19:07 I have to move away from the bike. Oh, that's a good one, right? So, that's a good one. Todd, Speaker 1 19:14 so maybe I'm guess, I'm guessing we're getting towards the end of the program. So it occurred to me that to share something. Julia Carmen 19:20 No, go ahead. We, we have all the time Speaker 1 19:25 to put it out there more, just because I would love to. I don't know, see, see it circular, or feel back from people. You know what they experience with it. But what, what occurs to me is, you know what it's like to listen to somebody listening, and not just that. And this ties back in also to the ecology and biology stuff, when thinking about the more than human world and how every other i. Uh, entity is entities is a is a kind of a living essence that it senses and feels, you know, they whether it's a microbe or a squirrel, it feels go one way or another, because it, you know, it has an interest to go on thriving and in life and and the thing of trees, you know, and there's been books on this as well, and the ways so, so it's not just to listen to, to think of just human of people, right? But you can be like it, even to play with it as a game. Say is, though, are the walls listening? And let me listen to the walls listening. Is the floor listening? You know, is, do my feet listen? Can I listen to sense whether my feet are listening? You know, like, like a game. But what it what it does, is when you listen in that way, because normally we listen for content, what's being said, what is being sung, what's being shared. But when you listen, see if you can sense something or someone else listening, then you're you're, it drops you into a very present, empty presence of being because you're not. It's not being filled with content. You know, you're, you're you're sensing something, and it's kind of, it's to me, it's fun, and it opens my mind. You know, if I can just do it here and there in the day, catch myself. Julia Carmen 21:36 Do you do that? Is that? What you're saying? You do that? Speaker 1 21:39 I do. I wish I did it more. Okay, okay, yeah, I wish it lately I was here. You'll get a kick out of this too, because I love to play with language. Like, if I'm talking with my mind is always pulling apart words and putting them together. Oh, Todd, Julia Carmen 21:55 that's why your writings are so much fun to read. Yeah? So go ahead. Yeah. Like, I love language. Speaker 1 22:03 And so the reason I was thinking this the other day, of course, is not because I'm, I'm spiritual, spiritually serene, but because I'm going through my turbulence, and I'm like, and, and I don't, I generally don't use the term God, or think in terms of God. You know, I won't get into why, but, you know, sort of like externalizing an entity out there. And if anything, I just think of this. Everything is just a mystery to me. It's a total, total unapproachable mystery, right? And I am part of that mystery. I am an expression of it, right? And so whatever is God is also everything else, including me, right? So, but sometimes I'll just say, God, it's like, okay, especially here I am in Istanbul. I hardly know anybody, so I don't want anybody to talk to. So we make up people. So I say, Okay, God, somebody to talk to. But my thought was, and this is the little play on language, was that I was like, Well, God, sounds weird to talk to you God, because if you are also me, then it's we. It's not like you out there, so it's like it's us, it's us. So then I said it's then it's like it's God, us. So instead of saying God, I'm walking down the street, I say goddess, which then, of course, sounds like Goddess, right? Julia Carmen 23:28 It actually sounds like God, us, G, o, t, that's Speaker 1 23:31 the next piece, right? So it's like God, and you have Goddess, and then you have Goddess, and Goddess is Goddess, right? Julia Carmen 23:42 I love it. I love this. This is playful. Speaker 1 23:48 So whatever this has just been in the last few days for whatever reason, because, you know, my it's really been, you know, it's challenging to drop. It's, this is a city of 15 million people. I know two people when I arrive here, and they don't live where I live. So, you know, just just today, even somehow this funny little play on words became my simple way of during the day, it just pops into my mind. I say, God, us. And then I just sort of drop into a listening and trusting right kind of like, and it might just last for 10 seconds or 20 seconds, and then I'm distracted by something else. But you know, even to be able to come back to that again and again throughout a day is is something of significance. You know, Julia Carmen 24:39 I love it. Todd. You're, I love the way you think, in the all that you think the big A, L, L, right? Because what you're, what you're doing, this is what I'm Speaker 1 24:52 also like a laundry detergent, all, yeah, Julia Carmen 24:59 everything. Thing. Well, what you're doing, you're going into in such a creative, curious way, you're going into that, which is the all of everything cleanses everything, right? So then you go into no thought. And that's the real truth. So when Mira le Mira, let me, when I work with someone, everybody has a frequency and vibration. Everyone you know, what do you call it sound? Or whatever you know. I always tell people, what do you mean? I said, Well, you know, like birds, All birds have one sound, all birds, you know, like not all birds, but birds Excel. You know, birds sound. Then you hear a crow, and there's a certain frequency and vibration. Then you hear a song bird, another frequency and vibration. Then you start figuring, you know, you start listening to all of that, because that's how I hear i i before I see something in the physical realm, I hear it with the frequency and vibration. I go, Okay, here's like when I think of you, you have a frequency and vibration of who you be. I go, Oh, there he is. Boom, right? So when I work with someone, I when I first start working with someone, I need to tap into their frequency and vibration with their permission. Yeah, so I'll sit with them, and then as we work, and, you know, work through the times and so on, I don't really pay attention a lot to their what they're saying, actually. And a lot of times I don't even know what kind of work they do, I'm tapping into that physical, non physical, of the all of they, who they be, because they have so much, yeah. And then there comes a time when their frequency and vibration. The first time it happened that I was aware of I went, what the fuck I can't hear it was a he. I go, I can't hear him anymore. What the hell? And then I went, huh? And so I actually told him. I said, Hey, mijo, I can't hear you anymore on that other realm. And he goes, really? And I go, Wait a minute. Well, what happened is, is that the frequency and vibration when folks become, not become when they back more into themselves, their frequency and vibration gets finer. So there's no high and low energy, or whatever you want to call it. There's just dense and you mentioned about the dense there's a dense frequency, and then there's like this medium where I think most humans hang out, and then there's that fine frequency, and just gets finer and finer. You want to call it consciousness, you know, it's infinity, yeah. And so I go, huh? And so I told this client, I said, Hey, mijo, let me sit here for a second. Let me tap into that frequency of you and that finer frequency. And once I got it, it's like fine tuning, right? I said, if it's okay with you. He goes, Yeah, we're working together. I prefer you be in that, you know, boom, boom, right? And then I yeah, that was years ago now, when, when I don't hear one of my students, huh? Okay, let me get quiet. So it's about listening yamiha on that, on that realm of the non physical. I dial in and I go, Oh, there she is. Whoa, okay, let's, I go. Let's rock and roll. Come on. What do we got here? And so what you're, what you're sharing here, what you're sharing is that it's, it's a it's a infinity, you know, that we can never listen enough. You know, like the awareness of someone like, I've heard you through the years shift with your permission. On the non physical realm, there's a whole lot of stuff going on, yeah, and I feel we have a relationship and affection for each other as folks, right? So sometimes I'll hear you, I'll think of you and like, Huh, that's an interesting Hmm. Wonder what he's up to, but that's pretty much it. So there's, there's a sound you make me how that is just totally awesome, yeah? And I never go into anybody's space, yeah, ever. If I think of someone and I get nothing, I don't, I don't go any further, you know, but usually when I think of someone, it's because I care about them. It's never, it's, I don't think I've ever thought, Well, Speaker 1 29:08 I'm glad you get to enjoy that sound and not hear some of the other sounds I make. Julia Carmen 29:14 Well, that that's all noise. Todd, no, no. Be that's, that's a human noise. When people make human noise. I don't really pay attention to it. I know you're laughing because it, you know it is, yeah, because it is just noise. Speaker 1 29:29 It's, it's turbulence that distracts and clouds. What's exactly the deeper resonance underneath? Julia Carmen 29:38 Yeah, because, you know what, Miho when you're in art, when you're doing art, your art, when you're writing, when you're dancing, and I've seen you do those, there is no thought. There really isn't. And that's what I what I love about artists, when they're in that state, I call it. They. Australian stream. You know, you've seen Finding Nemo, yeah, and there. And those, those turtles, Unknown Speaker 30:05 I don't know if I saw it. Julia Carmen 30:09 It's really cute. It's a cartoon. I have grandchildren. You watch them all right? And so these, these turtles going on the Australian stream, and one of them pops out, and Dora, she's lost. She says, fish. And she said, What are you guys doing? We're looking, or somebody's looking for Dora, or vice versa, or whatever, right? And they go, oh, man, we're just riding the stream. We're on our way to Australia. The actually, the turtle actually looks kind of loaded. But anyways, so he hangs 10, you know, gives a shock, a sign or whatever, and he goes, see you guys later. Just get in the stream, man. You'll get there faster. And so when we are there, that's, that's what I call it, when I'm when I'm there, because we're always there. You're always there. Just that, honest to goodness, being in the human existence will always pull us out of the stream, always because we have this free will. Todd, yeah, and that's what I love about that piece of of learning, understanding that human condition of thought and how powerful it is, and that our brain lies to us, tells us things that scare the shit out of us and but I also love it because it helps me, reminds me to brush my teeth and put deodorant on and how to drive a car, How to Get through an airport. It does wonderful things, but it's not the all. And as you know, some folks that's just where they hang out all the time. It's safe there, yeah, but there's so much more, and I'm so just like you just make me giggle and and laugh, belly laugh, because you really are living in both worlds and you really are having a life that not about anybody else, but you really are having a life you're awake, even when you think you're not awake, you're awake. I love it. Yeah, that's debatable. You know what? When just you saying that, that means there's still more to explore. Speaker 1 32:32 And you know one of what's really also in the heart of my exploration, you could say, and, and this ties in again, to seeing, seeing life in terms of the whole thriving biosphere, yeah, and it's been something that I've it even my doubts or my thoughts about it kind of go back further, but the kind, the way we grow up thinking about a body and a soul, you know, body and a mind, body and a spirit. You know, a material world and a spiritual world. And we if people think about spirits being in things, right? That doesn't work for me any longer, because when it the kind of the assumption holds in there is that you know you have this world of material, this world of matter out of bodies, which is like a lower rung than the more transcendental world of spiritual as we might think of it, right and and that that was kind of bequeathed to us long, long ago through various religions and philosophies. Julia Carmen 33:57 Yeah, open culture, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 33:59 Um, but it's very different, if to consider that aliveness, you know, the biosphere, and even just matter for that for that matter, I that it is something that is constantly emerging and creating and expanding into more and more complex life and life systems and that and that For me, the what I what I what I tend to lean towards, let's say I don't want to call it a belief, but let's say what I tend to lean towards, it makes sense, is that, is that this, that intelligence, what we call intelligence, or even wisdom, or resilience, well being, is a. Is manifests from the body is the body is the matter. You know, they're not separate things, exactly, right? So, Julia Carmen 35:09 yeah, it's Speaker 1 35:11 in, but it's very subtle because, because I think it's still incredibly predominant, especially, you know, and I mean, if people aren't spiritual, they know that they don't care about it, but people consider care about it, but people consider themselves spiritual fun thought. And I don't know, again, if this was Weber that said it, but then I had my own twist on it as well. You know, we learn in, you know, chemistry or whatever, like elementary school, or whatever it is, you know that the water is made from, from, it's h2, O's, two hydrogens and an oxygen, right? And we're just taught that as a matter of fact, right? Well, you could look at it and and think of, you know, it seems like hydrogens and oxygens really love each other. They love being together. I love it. They bond, yeah, you know? And there are three, there are threesome on top of it, you know, makes it even exactly, and that makes water the, you know, the gives us life. And that's comes out of a bond, which is an embrace, right? Imagine that you're drinking a glass of water and you're you're drinking a glass full of embraces. And for Julia Carmen 36:26 me, Speaker 1 36:31 it was helpful, kind of the shift of thinking, instead of thinking about transcendence or spirituality, then I don't think so much in those terms, so much, but more around aliveness. You know that when we connect, and that connection feels healthy, we feel enlivened by it, you know? And if considering the collective of other people, whether it's our family or society, you know, we can consider what is more enlivening for the whole right? And for me, that aliveness seems to bring together what conventionally would be material and spiritual. You know, yeah, because you feel alive, because you you feel in your body, you feel in your chest, if you know you feel it, because you know, without our body, without a nose, without our ear, you know, without our ability to sense, what could you possibly experience? There is no transcendent self, because there'd be nothing you could experience without it. Yeah, Julia Carmen 37:37 no, that's truth that that's I I'm just sharing with you truth, not my truth, but what you just shared is why we are here. Yeah, we're here for that which you just said, honest to goodness there. That's, that's my understanding from no that. I mean, that's why we're here. What you just shared, yeah, because I'm No, I'm serious, you know, because truth is truth, yeah, it's not Julius truth. I'm not your truth me, huh? What you just shared was truth. That's, that's what I not even an understanding. I just go, yeah. That's, yeah. That's why it's a challenge to be in human in the human realm, because we do have all those senses that, you know, but without that, spirituality is one thing I more so than the soul. The soul, self of being, is the pureness of self, right? So that which is the truth of you, right? So that not right, right? Todd, but that's my you know, that's what, yeah, and that yes, spirituality is to I is a different thing, being in the soul, self and the frequency and vibration of the two walking them and like you were sharing right now. Mijo, of course, you know, we can get off this podcast and you can go somewhere and stub your toe or Shin, which I feel like hurts, and cuss up a storm and just go, but that's a moment in time, right? So that just says, Hey, I got a body and it hurts sometimes, Speaker 1 39:07 you know, in sharing say what you might call truth, I might say it just it touches on something, you know, and we have different ways of talking about it, and, and that's, and that's the thing that makes the space for the many, right? Because people exactly because that provides more, it's more outlets in a room for people to plug into. Because something's going to work for one person, a certain language or lens, it's not going to work for somebody else, Julia Carmen 39:39 yeah. Well, the interesting part, this is really cool, mijo, and I don't I hear what you're saying. And when the I'm not talking about my truth here, oh, God, no, um, or yours, or anything, and what you're saying, there's only one you know the I think maybe you know, like when I say truth, I'm not saying Julius truth. What I'm saying is. When one sits with what was said here, what you what you shared, and one sis with that, and people are listening to that, it's gonna ring something in their soul self of being Yeah, and they're gonna go, yeah. Let me look at that. That's where the curiosity comes in. And, like you said plugging in? Yeah, is it? I've had the most privileged, amazing thing to see folks leave in the physical realm, close family members and stuff, meaning they, they, they've like, boom, they're not in the physical realm anymore, and they're in that non physical realm, and I almost always get the same look. And this is not what they say, because they're getting ready to go do their thing or whatever. And I look at them and I go, Hey, you know, like somebody like, Hey, how's that like? And they have this look like, what the fuck was that all about? And I just start laughing, you know, the human thing. And I said, Yeah, right. And they go, yeah. And they always say the same thing, just about all of them. I said, you know, enjoy Julia, enjoy enjoy being in that body, and enjoy, you know, like doing, doing everything, doing whatever you do, and know that we love you and that you're loved beyond any love you could ever imagine. And I go, Yeah, that's truth, isn't it? Yeah. And what? That's what I was saying. You know that we're constantly looking as humans, even I that has that, have that, you know, like, Wait, cool. I know what's over there in the non physical realm. I've been there, and it's kind of cool and and I'm like, Oh, the peace and the joy and the happiness. And they always tell me the same thing, like a Julia, like a what they go, you got a body. You got a body, and that body is going to give you so many great sensations through that power of thought. Use it wisely, kind of what you're saying, Todd, you know, I use it wisely. You're gonna, you're gonna get caught up again, just like all humans do. But don't hang out there too long. And I go, okay, yeah, I feel like this little obedient little girl, even though I'm the age I am in the human years right now. Again, I feel like I'm learning every freaking day, every day, that something happens, whether it's in the physical or non physical realm of being. I have choice, and I love that. I love that I can see that. But again, I'll get off. Get off of here. My dog will do something, and I'll go, What the I just find it very fascinating. But I just Todd really honest to goodness, you have this amazing way of seeing life in a way that that, yeah, the way I see you is like this, I guess gardener, or whatever, you know, like, look over here. Hey everybody, look over here. See this, don't you think that's cool, and then that opens that area up for folks to see truth, right? I guess that's what I was trying to say, yeah. So it's like, it like you said, the plug, right? Like, oh, let me plug my thing in here. Let's see what's here. So it's not like you're saying, listen to me. I'm taught Todd Thomas Brown, and I got all this to say, and you better listen to me, or I right. No, you're saying, Hey, come on and check this out. When you find something Speaker 1 43:45 fascinating or you want that, you want another witness to see it with you, exactly, Julia Carmen 43:51 right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the know this, in the non physical realm, no need, Yeah, everybody's there already, kind of see right? But in the human realm, it's kind of nice. It's kind of nice to stop the all, but it's kind of nice to say, hey, well done. I like your art. I like your writings. It helped me get through the night, or help me get through this moment in time. Yeah? So, yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. I think, right, Speaker 1 44:25 yeah, I mean, I don't, you know you you the non, the non human realm. That's I don't. I don't go there. I mean, I don't, but you do. That's where we are. This is where we have, maybe different language in different ways, we need a longer conversation to Julia Carmen 44:46 Okay, yeah, but, but the thing Speaker 1 44:47 is, you do the language, right? I know I'm like, okay, she's talking about that. I love that. You know? You keep listening. Julia Carmen 45:01 But we're talking about the same thing. You just come in from another angle, that's all but it all, like I said, it all comes to the same we end up in the same place, all of us. It's kind of an interesting thing. So, yeah, well, I have to come to Italy. I still have that planned. Mijo, you know how things kind of get here and get there, but the conversation will continue. I am going to make it there. That's still in my timeline. Unknown Speaker 45:30 Good, yeah, me updated. So, Julia Carmen 45:32 oh yeah, yeah. So is there anything you'd like to share or end with this beautiful conversation we've had. I'll Speaker 1 45:42 just say thank you. You know, I really appreciate the opportunity and the interest you know, of you to graciously invite me on your show. And very much, in the that spirit of the Baldwin quote that I mentioned, you know, for me, it's a gift, because you, it's you reflecting back to me my light, you know, and what, what I have to offer and share. And it's a good reminder, because I need reminded. Julia Carmen 46:16 Well, Todd, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you taking out the time and the energy to be here and to be honest about where you are, not just in the world, but as this beautiful human and walking both worlds at the same time. Amen. Speaker 1 46:39 Yeah, I would say in terms of the honesty it's it's a good thing. And just remember the all you talked about, if you think about it like the laundry detergent, it's not afraid of any of your dirty clothes. It all works with the all comes out. That Julia Carmen 47:00 might be the caption Unknown Speaker 47:03 Oh, God, praise Lord, Julia Carmen 47:09 thanks again for joining me today. I hope you enjoyed this continued conversation with Miami. Go mi amigo, right, yeah, Todd, you know, if your soul these soul conversations, are you like them? Yeah, like today, we have a whole archive over on our website, in our podcast history, you'll find those when you search for indigenous wisdom podcasts on your favorite platform, like Apple podcasts or Spotify, and be sure to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter. So you're the first to know about upcoming retreats, programs and more. Sign up today at the schoolwithoutwalls.net and check this out. Thank you. Muchas gracias for joining us. You. We really appreciate you joining in and listening to these cafecitosi Cheese me, you know, getting your little coffee. Yeah. Talk story, yeah. Let us know how much you enjoy this and let other folks know too. Okay, adios, amo amo y muchas abrazos, thank you for joining us. Amen. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai