You do bring out your door. Hey, here's my Reaper. My Hindenburg goldway Froot Loops. Can the security guards? Put me down now. Drop him Lads that and I got a laptop stuffed up your jumper or you pleased. Okay. I want to keep my Pro Tools for emergencies. Sorry, some new rows and Iva, get it boy. Oh what's going on here? That is apparently a new legislation come through from LEM and who them? And I'm afraid, sir, we're not allowed to release any more sci-fi until 2042 what nudie IP D.
AP Douglas Adams protocol. There's just so much of it sci-fi and people need time to catch up on all things being released. See, so to give us a chance, no more audio fix sci-fi creation for 20 years now. Sorry. Oh well, we're working on season two, I It's nearly finished. It seems an are not to release it, all that hard work. Yeah, it takes folks on average of maybe 30 hours to do 30 minutes episode. If it's got a lot of editing effect and actors.
I mean, it could be a little bit more, especially if it's recorded remotely. So, yeah, it was a little bit more prep. I mean not so long. Yeah, yeah. Say yeah. Popular of you if you like that would be wonderful. Not enough folks review shows, they listen to huh hint hint. No one likes happen. If they were creative head, sir, do you listen to a lot of audio dramas that I would like to hear about true crime and unsolved murders, I can help solve a
mysterious disappearances. In the hell, is the back rooms? And what do I do? If I was trapped in an interview show? Flashbacks to how house about crime in space So you'd like that wouldn't date in space? No one can hear you confess to murder. Oh yeah. That's a thing. So Earth eclipse is kind of a crime in space kind of confessed to thing things. Yeah, I suppose you're right sir but it's not enough on its own to save his genre.
Mmm. Yeah I have my orders C so we can keep sci-fi going for a little bit longer. If someone makes some crime in space I'd like that very much, okay? If you're listening Please help save sci-fi and write down some more crime fiction you can do it. Well, if we're breaking the fourth wall, I, well I do love some romance in there to please. 00:02:34,300 Oh, yeah. Romance crime, thick. That's there's, there's not enough if you done a murder River.
Not yet. Hello and welcome to another glorious chaturanga on in daf with me Sara Goulding. Hello. And today's guest is hyper hyper talented with their newest, project winning, and being nominated for countless worldwide Awards. Including am bees and the Tribeca film Awards, and British podcast Awards, and more SARS. And this guest has produced directed conceived of the idea in the first place with Andres De talented Pals. Yes, this product is also down
to earth. You could say is Talent. Cannot be eclipsed. Aha, yes. It's Nick. Proofer of Earth, eclipse, and drumroll, founder, and chief content officer of Apollo podcast podcast. Shh also has as hello Nick. Hi Sarah. Thank you for having me on. So, Glorious to have you here, I'm very excited to chat all things podcasting, which is one of our first loves right. Well, what am i s? Babies. Make sure you feed it properly and gets the right amount of
sleep. First question, I think we're starting something rather left their field. Would you ever want to actually live in space yourself? Nick having written so much about it? It's like my properly forever. You are, you know, but probably not in the universe of Earth. Eclipsed, if I'm being honest, say it does seem very nice with the Utopia and the and the mm OT that people drink their butt. To be frank I prefer Earth and there's still a lot of problems that we need to solve here.
First, I great put me to sleep for about 500 years. I'm in yes, but yeah, I mean you love fiction is obviously very clear from, you know, the love you put into your shows and I think for me there's so much about audio fiction that is exciting and the it knows no bounds. Right? So what do you personally love about audio fiction? And why have you chosen this specific medium to work? You know, it's weird because I actually come from a very visual background.
I I did a lot of work in animation, a lot of work and virtual reality. And what I really fell in love with when it comes to audio, fiction is the ability to imagine the audience has this amazing potential of taking whatever you kind of give them with the sounds and the music and putting it all together in their heads. Nothing is concrete. When it comes to audio fiction, it's all kind of Of floating up there somewhere and it's there for the audience, to kind of grab.
And to me, there's something very, very fun about that. About being able to really give give give the audience the respect that, they'll be able to put the story together correctly that they'll understand everything correctly and also just to be able to sit down and daydream and to think about all the amazing things. I mean, I was deeply inspired by so many great audio fiction stories out their names. Name. So, you know, oh yeah, of
course. Midnight Burger, of course, I think midnight Burger was a huge inspiration. Of course the classics rag. You have to listen to Lime town. 00:05:59,700 If you're going to, if you're going to start making work in this, you got to start listening to the classics that are out there. But there are also some other great creators. I mean, at Alman year, with someone dies in this elevator is
fantastic. I've I'm kind of, I'm still kept their just so many Fiction podcast that it's fantastic because you can Just keep finding great shows and I'm still even catching up to some great ones. I I'm halfway through primordial deep from Jordan Cobb and I'm absolutely loving it as well. So yeah. It's so many inspired inspiring creators out there. That's so cool. Isn't it there on?
Hello. Salute to you all of you that are mentioned and making because you are, you know, just doing amazingly, keep it up. What would you actually love about your own show then? Because you put you know, your sweat Blood and Tears into This and the amount of hours for 41 episodes that folks do, is, is crazy. So yeah, how do you love about your own show and why should
focus on this? And that's a really good question, Sarah and kind of hard without without seeming egotistical about my own work, but I am very proud of the work that we put in. I think what I really enjoy about Earth eclipse is that we really try to create an immersive cinematic soundscape within it.
You're really kind of almost getting the Hollywood treatment without being Hollywood while still being an independent Studio while still being able to create things independently with amazing independent actors out there. And and and I think really the mute like a AJ our composure and also our chief product officer sounding tenant.
Yeah. Does just an amazing job together with our other composers, Shane and Alessandro. 00:07:50,000 Really put in so much work into making the music be a part of almost like the sound design. So, I think the music adds a lot to, to the show and I think that there's something really cool about the mixing between the audio and the, and the dialogue together and the immersive aspects that we tried to include two new.
But not only that, I think also this universe was kind of read from my own mind conceived of and what's really kind of fun about it. Is that even Oh, it is a fun sci-fi space adventure with quirky characters and these like really big themes. I think, what's really cool about it? Is that it actually, it's very much grounded in a lot of themes that we see nowadays.
I mean, colonialism fascism we discuss in, you know, it's weird because a lot of the things that we talked about in our show are actually things that have become reality over the last year and it's kind of Very honestly it is that life imitate art or the other way around is yes it is frightening. The world is scary right now, isn't it? So I think we need audio fiction to escape and make me make us assess some things from a distance. I love that. What a lovely homage to your
lovely show and I agree. It's the fullness of it, right? Because a lot of podcasts, I listened to don't have the everything and I think Earth eclipse is one of the show's I listened to that has The everything and and what that is I think we're know you're welcome. It is the is that depth of sound and just the quality of the voices and the where they hang in space you know and you can really think about that but you're right, the music is
delicious. And any aspiring folks who wanted to make music for audio fiction. You must listen to this show and then you've had many hats, right? You've talked about a few of them, what? Been your favorite role in making this happen because you've been producer-director you conceived it. You further organize things and yeah, what was your been your favorite? And why Sarah. You're asking a lot of a lot of good, good, and good questions, and difficult questions. I love it. I love it.
I think for me, I think directing is probably where I kind of get a kick out of it. The most. I would say hiding those actors. Yeah, there is those pesky active. There is something fun about, you know, hurting the actors getting everybody on the same on the same page. But also being able to express kind of like, how am I going to make this scene, where correctly? What are what are the techniques that I can use to get the actors in the right mindset to play
their characters recording? If it's if they're in a terrible situation in a very dire situation? How do I make them feel? Like the situation is dire and perhaps that comes a bit from a little My childhood when I used to make movies a lot, when I was a kid and I always kind of liked enjoyed the creative process of making this when Suddenly It's funny because AJ our composure, he I've known AJ since we were
two weeks old pretty much. We were born in the same Hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've always done the visual aspects and he's always done kind of music, so being able to work together. ER I think is also very rewarding. I mean you know and there's a big question like what does directing mean and podcasting and I see a lot of times that the producer kind of wears the Hat of the director and the way how I see it is that the director sets the tempo, right?
It's almost like an animation where you need to have things move, quickly and move slowly, right? That's that's the Rhythm that you want to kind of find is what is what is the rhythm of the scene and what is the rhythm of this? And how can I make sure that the Rhythm accompanies that that emotional feeling throughout throughout the scene? And I think that as a director, there's something very fun about being able to work with all
aspects of production. I mean you're working with the music, you're working with the actors you're working with the scriptwriter. Our scriptwriter Alexa politica. 00:12:12,000 Absolutely fantastic stand up. Yeah. Yeah, Alexa did just just a phenomenal job and it's funny because We me AJ and Victor who are the three founders of Apollo. We built, we wrote the first script of Earth, eclipsed ourselves. Just just, just, just the three
of us once Alexa came on board. Alexa did some, some revisions in it and it was actually very liberating because I remember I had this entire plan for the entire season. I think I had something crazy like the main character was going to get shot in the face and the second episode. And then my writer was like, okay, that's Cool Nick but maybe we don't have them. Get shot in the face. Is that okay? And I was like, you know what?
This is what makes the collaboration process exciting is this is that you're not in total control and you don't want to be in total control because there is something beautiful about the minds of the other people that you work with and the collaboration that they bring bring to the table. So, yeah, I would say to answer your question, directing. Yes, I really am and I want to touch on.
If I may you talked about, you know, there's sort of some some scenes in here that people had various states of emotion that they had to portray and as director, how do you make that a safe space and encourage that heightened emotion? And how of use of dealt with the aftermath of, those kind of seems to for them? Yeah, there is I think there is a scene in episode 6 that I always go back to where it's two of its two of the main characters and they're by
themselves. And it's a very emotional and touching moment because We actually start to see, kind of a little bit more of the inner layers of our main character. And in that scene, I remember that usually how we record is that will usually take one or two takes in its entire form. So we'll do the start of the, of the scene until the very end.
But and and then after that, we'll kind of go go back and capture certain specific moments that would mean that we might want to touch up on and capture again. But in that scene I remember that. That we just ran through it, I think maybe four or five times in its complete form because by doing that you're not breaking up the tempo of the actors you're not breaking their emotional state. They're able to remain in their characters, they're able to feel those characters.
And the way how we recorded it to was, first of all, it was all remotely. I mean Phil even yeah. Yes, I was going to talk to you about that. That's brilliant. And I mean, as a remote voice acting, you know, I think we've got better at doing that. And I think you'll cast is all over the place.
Yeah, absolutely. I think we've all over the us, but also actors in the UK we had people in Brazil helping us too and what's very Australia as well and what was kind of very exciting about doing it remotely is that we had to very quickly, figure out, how are we going to? How are we going to make sure that the emotions are maintained? Even though we're doing it, remotely, I remember very Very early on my producer, Victor asked me like is there any way
that we could do this? Just everybody record their own Lines by themselves and I was very adamant at the time that no, no. I want everybody to be in the same room even if that means a virtual room because that's where the magic happens is when the actors are looking at each other. When they're I mean, not even looking at each other because everybody is recording it audio. 00:15:44,800 But when they can hear each other and they can feel the energies of the other Ders.
That's where you get that. Like, that side, that you weren't expecting, or that breath, that you weren't expecting. And then, and then you're like, okay, that's it. That's the one that is. And and almost and almost the way how I go through takes as well as very much like I tried to look for the takes that are a bit imperfect that have those imperfections in them. When they talk perhaps somebody stumbles over something perhaps somebody says something incorrectly because those
imperfections. And it kind of ties into the to the theme of her, the clips, which is that those imperfections are what make life beautiful. And those imperfections are what make the art feels so rich. And so, I think, I think the point is, is like, just to you, you have to understand what is the emotional state of the scene. You have to understand where these characters coming from, what was their background before, getting into the scene and positioning yourself.
So, when you go to record, That your actors feel like they can feel that emotional state. And so, even something that feels turbulent or exciting, or, or devastating, you, you have to create that mood as a director, you're almost like a cheerleader in some way, right? Because you have to cheer everyone on and you need to create that safe place for people to feel safe that they want to that. They want to work in. And I think that is the most
important thing, beautifully. Put and I agree with all you've said, I think I do both still. You know, I do the one way you do, just the lines in isolation, three times over in different ways and I think over the years I have learned really that the key thing to those lines is there needs to be some kind of extraneous sound, in a lot of the takes, previous two or coming out of and during your your read. So, you know, someone's talking to you and your Is no way man or
whatever. Then you would do a salad, no way man before and it just then that can bleed. So much nicer under the other dialogue that's being. Absolutely. Absolutely. And your voice is the only thing that you have in this medium and because you only have your voice, it's those small little subtleties that give the richness of the dialogue. I think that there is an episode 1. There is a great line from one of our characters.
Julian pariahs. And I remember in the script, the only thing that was on that line was. Yes. But that was it. But because we were able to get that emotion of the of Julian, talking to our main character, dr. Alex and pro meth in this interview and having it feel kind of heated at that moment. The actor for Julian Paris was actually, yes, yes, yes yes yes yes, yes. But and I was like that's it. I actually wish I had written
five yeses instead of this one. Yes on the script but that's the freedom. Yeah. That's that's Some of this medium. Yeah brilliant. Yeah and I will that sounds awesome. You should start to give directing workshops please. And I guess you know you along your journey, there's been so many things that you know have been hard to perhaps overcome or make work.
And what would you say other folks making audio fiction would also find really hard to navigate that you won over a new were able to beat in submission to get your your Ducked out on do. Yeah. I think, I think Earth eclipse in and of itself, the creation of it as a season. I think probably the most challenging part is just I think it's honestly it's the creative aspect of it is figuring out. What is your sign?
That what is your sound design going to look like or sound like what is what is the music going to? How's the music going to interact with the dialog that you create? Because there's so many different types of audio fiction stories? Some of them. More cinematic. Some of them are less than a mattock, some of them have more
music. Some of them have less music and it's not to say that one is better than the other but you just have to understand what kind of what kind of story do you want to tell and what kind of emotional Journey? Do you want your your audience to go through? I think that is probably the most difficult aspect of creating Earth Eclipse was just figuring out. Okay, how is this going to sound? Like what is, what is our Inspirations?
Where does the story kind of go? How are we going to make sure that the story is Aging all the way until the end. And how can we surprise the audience at any moment that we can write? I think if you let things get
stale, they will get stale. So you have to make things to liven it up. And I think the creative part is difficult, I think on the more practical side and I think this is kind of, was a bit of our journey was that originally, we created Earth Eclipse with this mindset of hey we're gonna go out to different different. Studios and we're going to pitch them on the idea and we're going to pitch them on the rest of the
seasons. Let's see if we could do a collaboration with any other kind of large studio. That's out there. And look Earth Eclipse. Not to toot our own horn, but Earth Eclipse has won a plethora of awards. I think, right now we're up to more than 30 accolades when it comes to Earth Eclipse. Thank you. But what I tell people is that it really doesn't translate in the end to a larger audience.
Audience. That's first of all, these Awards, do not translate to a larger audience and they do not translate also to a potential sale of your story to larger Studios and that was a big challenge that we faced originally was, we created Earth, Eclipse, our idea was, we're going to become a Content Studio where we could create more audio fiction content. But as we started to learn about this industry, you know, especially after getting into Tribeca and then later the am bees.
I think it kind of became clear. How isolated fiction podcasts can seem in a way and talking to creators and seeing from our own experience. The like the work that we had to put in to talk to these different companies and look we have a saying in Brazil. I'm originally from from from Brazil myself but there is a saying in Brazil which is that you already have the know, which means you should go. Go out and you should try and try and Pitch the idea.
If that's if that's your goal, if your goal is to try and make a co-production, go out try and Pitch it try and talk to people. 00:22:29,500 But what we realized is that a lot of people just weren't ready for for the kind of fiction that we were creating and even though there are great fiction stories out there, Unfortunately, they do not get listened to because fiction is almost a side category to nonfiction.
I mean you go on every every app and you see fiction as a singular category on the side there and you think to yourself well that's great but there are so many different kinds of fiction. There is horror, there's fantasy, there's Slice of Life. There is so surreal fiction as well. And I think that that was kind of when we had the little light bulb kind of go off for us regarding Apollo because we were like, okay, clearly we feel that the He isn't paying attention to audio fiction.
How can we Elevate? Audio fiction, not just for ourselves and for our own project but for everyone, how can we do this in a way that helps every other fiction Creator out there? And so for that. Yeah, that was, that was really when when when the light bulb kind of went off for Apollo podcasts, I absolutely love that, you know, your productivity in doing that and you know to have the gumption to celebrate India audio fiction as you Of and to push the other Apollo out is just glorious.
So folks, if you haven't found it yet, please have a look. There'll be links on the show notes and if you just type it in, I'm sure you'll find it. But yeah, I think before we talk about Apollo itself because I think we'll save that gem for more death than in a moment if we can stay with Earth eclipse and I wonder if we could listen to some of the clips of your show, you've glorious Clips, you've sent to me course I think people can hear what an ass. Earth.
We're talking about the Glorious sound design and and more. So yes. You want to introduce the first clip of your choice. Absolutely. So we're going to listen to a couple Clips. I would say that the first clip that we're going to listen to is really just showing our soundscape and the exciting moments that kind of happen within the show. You can kind of get a feel of the of the excitement that we try to bring to the show. So enjoy, here we go.
Nothing is going to happen. I think you're wrong doctor. Guess what? About to find out that our goal, Alex, I'm coming for you. Poor Alex. Yep. Absolutely beautiful. Ethnic and see what next been talking about with that depth of sound. And and again just to celebrate, that's recorded remotely. You know. It does completely sound like they're in the same space. So congrats on making thank you. That was a fun scene honestly to
record. And I remember we We talked a lot about the sound design of this machine that you hear in the background. And just I remember a big reference was I wanted to sound like almost like, I believe it's dr. Frankenstein. I might be butchering Frankenstein right now, God, but I believe it's dr. Frankenstein. That pushes the lever to create the monster. And so I remember that was a big inspiration for that scene, but you gotta listen to the rest of it to know how we get there.
Are you sure? This is a good advertised. Do feel brilliant. Let's let's play a clip B and then we can talk about it afterwards. So if you're ready put your best headphones on and let's perfect security repair. Oh my, I mean that such beauty are singing and you've created that just jubilant sound to add to the slightly ominous. Feel to it too. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I clearly do not want to give anything away because this this clip is actually later in the
season. So you got to really get to this point to truly appreciate. What's going on in this clip but basically what was what we wanted to do is that we wanted to create the anthem for the Concord, which is basically the utopian society that controls this Intergalactic civilization, pretty much. And what we ended up doing is that we ended up working with a choir in Macedonia, the Thames Choir. This was a choir of more than 20 people all remote during covid-19.
And we even have pictures and videos of all the recording artist wearing masks as they were trying trying to sing this and it was truly a fantastic experience to be a part of that. 00:28:21,000 I mean AJ together with Shane really drove the composing and the coordination of the entire choir. But it was it was an amazing experience and the work that we got out of it was just stunning in the end. I remember listening to it for the first time and I was like This is it, we're done, right?
And then she was like, oh no, we're not done yet. We're gonna put some, some, some drums in the background here, and we're going to put some some music in the background. We're going to elevate it and we're going to put it inside this Auditorium and it really came together. So well it's actually funny that. I remember our writer wrote down the lyrics for the choir and gave it to AJ. And I remember AJ looking at and being like, Oh my God, how are we going to turn this into a
piece of music? How are we going to like turn? These Lyrics into something that actually sounds okay and works and I remember even another that I'm thinking about it, I remember that the writer even recorded a version of her singing, The Anthem just by herself and we use that as a base for everything moving forward. And so it was just an absolutely amazing experience to do that and I think in that episode, it comes full circle.
Like once you get to that episode and you hear this clip you'll see Lee feel the power of this moment and especially what comes after it is. Then is phenomenal. Yeah I mean to me this gives it an epic feel, you know, it's like yeah. Production values here are glorious. Oh thank you, jump in. Listen and be inspired, it'll put the little hairs on the back of your neck, up to attention. But yeah, no, I mean that's exciting. Is that I know that Travis been
graph has worked with choir. And, and so, Of help me that remotely as well. And I think Francesca of my Lord Ford of pilgrimage podcast has also been writing. It just it just lends so much. Glorious shape to someone doesn't it. There's something very beautiful about the mix of drama and music within this medium and I would love to explore that even further in our next shows as we as we produce them. So yeah, he's going to think.
I didn't think. Got your voice actors to sound like that, but maybe they can see glorious brilliant. So let's, let's hear more, I wanted a ball. What have we got next? What have you got next, Nick? Who? Well, I mean, we have another clip. That kind of demonstrates. The immersive sound scape. It's another very exciting
moment within the show. I think we really, I think you can really hear also how the music plays with these exciting moments and how it almost it. Gives you a guide as to how you're supposed to feel while listening to this sequence. So I hope you enjoy. Here we go. Alex, yes, max. If this doesn't work well, but if it doesn't, I want you to know. I've always had faith in you. I know Max, I wanted to say in just in case, don't be little bit.
If I feel it's going awry, I'll do what I did last time and shut it down. I'm helping you under protest. I want to make that clear objection noted. Here we go. What am I? It's all right. Max, I'm fine. Oh, thank you can could you shut it off? No. It works. It worked, it worked. What did you did it? It was the most incredible feeling y-axis, the memory. I knew you were just really this almost as if I was watching Something Real, the greatest scientist in history, think of
the lives. We think about the Holocaust, tell everyone, you've made the greatest discovery of our lifetime. No, no. What do you mean? No, no, don't do it. Oh God, Sarah. You're like, making me like tear up here. Just listening to it again. It's, I mean, I feel like I've listened to the show maybe like 30 times while in production, but I still feel, I still feel so connected to the actors. That were a part of it. I think in this scene is specifically, there is something
so beautiful. About the way how Max and Alex kind of talk to each other. And I mentioned a little bit about those subtleties and I think we kind of get a little bit of that here as well. When Max is almost can't. Can't put into words, trying to figure out. How does he tell Alex how he really feels and not being able
to get the courage to do it? How do we express that in audio? 00:33:44,800 And I think it has to come through again, the Rhythm and the pauses that we put in there, the, the size and the Subtleties that we get from from the actors. And I think that God I am, you know, the actors that play both Max and Alex Christian and and Allegra absolutely stunning Stars.
Just I can't I you know if you are a Fiction podcast recorder if you were if you were recording or Fiction podcast I highly recommend you take a look at those two because they are just absolutely phenomenal. I would love to keep them for myself forever but But they, they're their talent is just absolutely amazing and the work that we were able to do
together. I mean, God throughout the entire series, you see this relationship between these two characters evolved and it's very yeah, God Sarah, you've got me emotional. I'm so pleased that because you know, the this is it, you talk to the top of the show about this being like a baby, right? And it really is, is something you care for and nurture and help grow and let it off into the world and see what happens, right?
So I love that you have that passion for it and I think for me just from that clip as well, just a builds of it. And, you know, with the editing wise, you know, you don't have to wait for someone to finish a sentence for the next person to stay. Done because that's not
conversation. So I think that's another great example of that they're piling the editing to also work with the music and the vibrancy of those emotions that they're experiencing to just the right marketing with the with all of the things. Absolutely Sarah are you know I think the hardest part about editing is the first dialogue take that you need to put together because you really have to imagine everything. Right? You have to imagine what the sound is.
You have to imagine what the music is, and I think, in that scene after we did the dialogue editing of it together, we could already feel the rhythm of that scene, kind of start to come into place like, okay. Alright. This pause here. That's perfect. What if we like expand this? Pause just a little bit more and I think yeah that that that scene is probably one of my
favorites. I would say my favorite scene is in episode 3. And honestly, most people would be like, why is that your favorite scene? But there is one scene where I just like, I remember, I remember telling AJ, AJ, even sent me a version of the music and he was like, is this too simple, should I redo it? And I was like, no, this is perfect. The Simplicity is exactly what we need here. And I think that this clip is kind of the opposite, right? It's like we need, we needed that music.
We needed. All those sounds to come together and then and then the rush up of the machine and then it gets big and then boom crash. Yeah, if that build and yeah, yeah. And then it builds again, you know, that's the thing. I love that the pace of things, I think you do beautifully in this show. So, yeah. Do we have a listen? Folks, that's your taste there and do listen out for the trailer for the show. On end of one of our wonderful episode, someone to share it with your friends.
Thank you, sir. And I wonder if we could have a school gravy. I wonder if we could sort of sidestep into because a lot of Indie fate. Folks are doing fundraising crowdfunding doing live shows, finding ways and innovative ways to fund their shows. No, wonder if we could talk about how you've got all your prowess up and running. What top tips have you got? Yeah, I mean, I'll be frank. It's very, it's very difficult if you're an indie Creator, get ready to climb some mountains
because it is not an easy task. I think we were, we were lucky enough. Within our own company that we had a lot of private backers that helped us to get to where we needed to get to where there's eclipse and then and
then with with Apollo as well. But I think that the important thing when it comes to creating an indie show is really connecting with your audience is making sure you have that connection because people want to support your work, they want to hear great things that you do and you see a lot of successful fundraising campaigns out. Are that people put together to really put their show to really create the new season for their
show, where create a new show. And I think it's all about how do I, how do I validate the purchase for for the audience, right? How do I make sure that the audience? It's almost like, how do I make the audience? Not feel like just the audience, how do I make them feel like they're a part of this. Like they've been kept, kept kept in the loop with everything that you're kind of doing. We tried a couple of tests on our side, That went well, some of it did not go.
Well for example we created an earth Eclipse puzzle. That's part of your publicity in between and after shows and that sounds very in. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, it's a, I believe it's if I forget how many pieces the puzzle is now. I think it's 500 pieces. Yeah. Thank you Sarah. I'll be sure to send you one center after this. And you know, we really try to Find a niche, right? To be like, okay, what can people do as they listen to our
podcast? That would seem like a and an additional aspect to the show and what we landed on was puzzles? Because people love to make puzzles together. They love to listen to things as they make puzzles, we even timed it out. So we timed out creating the puzzle and I'm not a good Puzzler. So it took me six episodes. I think six or seven episodes of Earth Eclipse 22 to finish the entire puzzle. I know some people that finished it beforehand like before the scene.
I mean the the the the season even ends which is very impressive but you know it's hard to tell whether or not things like that will work out for you because I think even though we had a good idea with the puzzle it didn't cement itself in the way how we had imagined. And I think that the lesson learned for us is how do Do we how do we make stuff like the puzzle or make behind the scenes content or additional content that people can listen to?
I think if you go on our website, we even have a couple of videos. I'm not even sure how many people have seen it, but we have like, a couple of videos I video video. One video, I think of like the lore video Behind the Concord and just explaining a little bit more about what is the Concord and how do they feel and it is Actually an mot commercial almost like an Adidas
commercial. So it we we try to do things that are fun that will keep people engaged but I think our lesson on our end and we've made mistakes and everybody's going to make mistakes. There is no way. You're not going to make mistakes when you create art, although some people say, I must interrupt your say that. Yeah, mistakes, that learning processes. Right, there we go, there we go. Love it. Sarah, that's it. That's exactly it.
And I think everything that we've learned We're trying to implement that now with Apollo as well and everything else that we're doing with the app. Like you talk about fundraising like what what opportunities are there for people in this medium to make it sustainable? How do we figure out a way to make the medium sustainable? I know we're going to talk about Apollo so I'm not going to dive too much into it now. Yeah, now. Yeah. Wait, wait wait, yes exactly love it.
The audience is going to love these little tidbits of Apollo and till we get there give him time. Yeah, but I think, I think, yeah, I think the main learning is really connect with your audience, connect with your Niche. And I mean, fiction podcasting is so, so different from normal nonfiction podcasting. It's almost like we've taken this thing that was inherently created for nonfiction and we said screw it.
We're going to make our own stuff and we're going to make these amazing fiction soundscapes. I guarantee you the people at Apple that developed in the podcast system and the RSS system, I did not ever imagined that people would have created such fantastic stories, as
they've created now. And so, I think the more you can connect with your Niche, the more you can connect with your audience, the more that people are going to want to support you and support your work that you're doing because they want to hear more about it and they won't and they want and they want you to create. And yeah I would say probably the biggest the biggest thing is just don't stop. Never stop. Yes, just keep going.
Keep making good stuff. Yeah. And what you want and how you want, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean I just want to talk to you because I love your puzzle idea, that's great, and Innovative and fun. And I, one of my favorite podcast of all time, is still blood culture. And the reason why not only for the content of it, I loved the storytelling in it, but also the tendrils it had like it had multimedia tendrils. So you could click on some links
here. And one of the characters was sort of a scientist and he had made YouTube videos in. Actor, and you can follow those they'd set up for the one of the main sort of, connective, AI characters, you could text them, and they would text you back and they'd set up this whole kind of thing where, you know, there was some interactive things.
And I have talked about this before because I ended up asking her, if she wanted to go to the pub with me and I don't think they were, but they were quite ready for that one. But, yeah, I think, you know these different tendrils of like, trying to make your audience, enjoy that experience more. I think is Gorgeous.
Yeah, you'll need to think about those other tendrils to put out. 00:43:46,100 Well, you know, I think, right now, if you're an indie Creator, you're a kind of left with the tools that exist out there for you. And my own perspective is that a lot of those tools are not made for audio specific. It's you, let's say you have your patreon, you let people know on your show to go to your patreon, but now you're asking them to go to a website.
So to leave the listening experience, go somewhere else. Then to log in, then to put in your credit card, then to submit whatever patreons subscription you want to do. And I think I think the way that I've seen a lot of great creators kind of get around that is just by being and being as Innovative as you can just thinking about what other pieces of content can I put out there that are people going to love.
I know, I'm, I'm pretty close with the Joe Fisher from Midnight burger and and this Is that Joe? And, and, and, and his team do when it comes to patreon. And just the content that they create is absolutely stunning, because they're thinking about Their audience, and they're thinking about what, what do people want more of? I think, even Trevor, Trevor Van Winkle as well from homestead on the corner, does some amazing stuff. I remember seeing that, that they even created a book like,
wow, that is, that is amazing. A book from Tales of echo, would sign. Sign me up. I'll buy one of those. Yes, put a, put a pin in that everybody for Alicia podcast, husband. Yeah, why not do it? You've got the script, just get some gorgeous person, tops of you, we even, even even art goes a long way. I know that there are a lot of interesting creators to I know, the craters from Storm Chasers.
It's a small. It's a, it's a recently released podcast and they do something very cool with concept art and just like creating something visual as well, so you can listen to it while you're looking at something. All I think this medium is so new in a way and it's, and it's kind of it's growing and and and it's hard to remember that because we think of podcasting now. And we think to ourselves, okay, well podcasting has existed for what 15 years in this form, I guess.
Yeah. And and it's, you know, I think we're so wrapped up into it that it's hard to kind of see the forest for the trees, you know, or see the trees for the forest? 00:46:07,400 I don't know what the saying. Go how the saying goes. But anyways I think it's Hard to like sometimes to realize just how new it is and how many
opportunities there are to just, you know, do things differently. 00:46:20,400 It's you know, I like to think of audio fiction almost as like a punk rock, you know, we're just oh yeah, it's just in the beginning of it. People are testing things out there doing different things. And it's really like, you know, like let's rev like let's revolutionize this and change in case the way how people think about it. Ya know, I love it. I love it. And I think yeah, it's a bit is
about taking that perspective. You're so right. Because when you are making that project, it is everything, isn't it alongside your inner family and friends and other things that are happening in your world, maybe you've have to run a job to alongside all this, right? So yeah, I think that this few just step out of the studio for a second and get that perspective on the way from the mic and step outside of that to all of your life.
And just look at, yes, how amazing the achievements have been in. Dating. So many amazing, creating beautiful stories that yeah, I think that perspective is really key to think about and I love all the people you've mentioned. I think they're glorious creative, so he has eyes for you. I mean, you'll season two is in progress now, right? So, you're creating and doing all that grooviness now and in between Seasons that's another place.
People find difficult to navigate in that kind of Hiatus. 00:47:40,100 So what have you done in between that? Keep people come into you and keep you interested. You know, I think, I think, first of all, the thing that I think newcomers in this in this medium or in podcasting one thing that they're not aware of is feed drops, right? So the idea of taking somebody's somebody's first episode and dropping it on your, on your, on
your own feed. So for example, taking episode 1 of midnight burger and putting it on Earth eclipse. It's and then midnight Burger does the same thing, right? They take episode one of her the clips and they'll put it on their, on their, on their show. And what that allows is that a, it allows you to give content to to your fans that just really like the same kind of content. So, I mean, you need to have a
little bit of an ear. As the creator of your own show to be like, okay, our is my audience can enjoy. This, is this too far-fetched? I usually tend to think of it kind of in sci-fi terms, like usually our audience is very sci-fi driven with They love things that feel immersive, that have a great soundscape, and music. So tending to lean towards more of those shows and trying to
make those feet drops. And I think to not only does it give your audience content that they can enjoy, but it also just boost your download numbers. I remember very early on. I spoke to John to Shawn Shawn. Howard from Fable and Folly shown on the show. Yeah, Sean amazing. I love Fable and Folly honestly, they're just great and I love, I love the work that they do and Sean has been extremely supportive of our work and Earth Eclipse but also Apollo, which
we'll get into later. But anyways, one thing that is, Sean told me at the very at the, very start of my journey, is looking to feed drops because the rough metric of how much of how much audience you can bring to your show is roughly 25 percent. So that is, I mean that's being very optimistic, I would say. Wow, But wow. Yes. And I will be, I'll be honest that the largest you would. You would think that the largest spikes and listeners ships for Earth.
Eclipse happened towards the festival's, right? Or the year, the awards that we got into, it's actually the fee drops. The fee drops are the highest ranking download numbers that we get. When we do a fee drop we maybe get up to like 5,000 downloads in a day or something and and I think that that is a very, very
helpful tool now. Now, I think you also, if you're doing this, if you are, if you are a content creator and you are continuously creating content and your fans, expect that out of you, I think you also need to think about what kind of content do they want to listen that pertains to the show as well? How can you create bonus content? That's going to keep people engaged. How are you going to create behind the scenes that are going to keep people engaged?
I know, for example, one thing we do on our website is that we have all the music there. They that if you want to listen to outside of the You can listen to it, but also, we've been working on a bonus episode. 4, Earth Eclipse. We're in the very late stages of post-production right now.
So right crossing my finger that we're going to be able to release it soon but we did something with this bonus episode where you know you could almost kind of catch it, halfway through we call the episode episode 6.5. If that gives you any kind of indication of where it exists within the Universe of Earth Eclipse, but we wanted to create something that not only appeases, our current fans, but also gives people an opportunity of like, hey, you know what?
I haven't listened to the entire show. I don't know if I want to dive into episode 1, but you know what? There's this bonus episode. Maybe, I'll just check it out and I'll see if I like it and doing something like that. Engages with your audience, it expands your world, it expands your characters and your able to do more fun things. I think also like, People need to remember, you are a crate, you are an artist as well. You need to express yourself and you need to express the things
that are important to you. And so just keep keep making content because people want to listen to it and they will listen to it. So those are my two, my to write recommendations feed feed drops, feed swaps, whatever you want to call it, and just bonus content in general, I think goes a long way. I absolutely love those top tips. And I have to say if you ever want an outside perspective on someone, doing your behind-the-scenes, reach out to folks who do interview shows.
I think if I can think of one person who might like doing that there's so many people in nonfiction who do interviews
beautifully. If that's not your Forte, get someone on the outside to come in and Grill, your wonderful voice actors and give their perspective on, you know, the questioning side of things because that might give it a Fresh Groove to Queries to Cricket, which is actually more to come love it. Publicity wise, I mean, you've got a cracking job on, you know, putting it out there and, you know, I can see, you've been proactive yourself in
contacting, you know, people who are influencers and the world and had trying to Ping it out. What top tips have you got for folks to get seen come on Phyllis in what do ya know? It's nice to know that someone thinks that our Market and our publicity was good. So thank you, sir. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, you know, I think, I think the artwork was very important to me, because I really wanted to create something special that stood out, and I think that that ends up helping a lot.
So, if you have a really good piece of artwork, I mean, people say don't judge a book by it's cover, but how many people look at a book and we're like, yeah. You know what? I'm not sure if I want to read it and I think the same kind of goes for If you have a great cover art, you are going to get interested. They're going to be wou. This, this seems very interesting, and I think the more hints you give about what the themes are or kind of what
the with the feeling is, right? If you have a very dark cover, art people are probably going to think. Oh my God, this is a very depressing show or a horror flick or something like in that fashion and so I think it's important, I think yeah. Our first major step for in publicity was thinking about the cover art and doing something. So exciting with it and I feel a bit different. I feel like it's a bit different from some of the stuff that's
out there. Maybe there is, I mean, there are thousands, thousands and thousands of podcast. So I haven't seen every single album cover yet. I would say that is the cover art is important. I also think that finding other creators that are similar to yourself is important to. I think the more you can create a community and the more you can engage with other creatives, the more publicity, you can kind of get it. Out there regarding your show. I mean Twitter is the hub for
audio fiction seems that way. I agree. Yeah. Yeah as it currently stands and I think the community does a great job of exposing each other's work and getting people excited about something new that's coming out. So I think it's important for to be connected to the community. I remember very early on, I was,
I was like on a on a confident. I was listening in to a conference call, it was some kind of event, I forget who put it on. It might have been P.m. or someone they had this event and Morgan, Givens creator of fly as fables was there talking about their work? And I, you know, I remember Morgan said, you know, get in touch with the community talk to the community and God, I wish I listened to Morgan a lot earlier. I'll be honest, I wish, I wish right after that call.
I had hit up Morgan, I talk to people figure figure out what they have done, how they can expose other people's work. And then I think, you know, Again, look Awards, do not raise your audience, it will give you exposure and it will give you industry credit looks lovely on the website, all of those wonderful crests and things. Yeah, they look great. They do look great and I would say that that is of great way for you to start getting your show exposed.
I mean, we got our first entertainment agent through Tribeca. So after We got into Tribeca, we had an entertainment agent Reach Out, reach out to us about representing us and so it does allow you to get your name out there. And if you're able to go to one of these events to it's a great moment for marketing as well, because you're able to talk to so many other creators so many other Studios Distributors as well and try and figure it out.
I will say that social media for me is kind of a tough one. I think it's important but I wouldn't say it's the end. All Y'all, I don't think that that's where you should put some focus into it and get people excited, especially because you want to create that Community. But I think at the same time, you have to start to reach out to other people. You have to reach out to reviewers and I think that is, my biggest tip is just be proactive, like, go out there.
Contact people shoot people emails bother people. I mean, God Sarah. I'm sure I bothered you quite a bit with with emails. So, Thank you. Well, I would say that that is the main thing is, just that, and I think that is a huge misconception. When we started, which is look podcasting, is inherently free, how difficult is it to distribute your work? It's very difficult to distribute your work. It's very difficult, the so much. So many other people vying. Yes, yes.
So many other people vying for attention. So many other great shows out there, but also you it's just difficult. It's difficult for People to like, I mean, this medium audio fiction is still growing. I mean that's one of the things that we believe at Apollo is that this this fiction is going to grow over the next couple years and just like audio books just like any other major piece of media that started in nonfiction.
It's eventually going to go. It's the majority stake is eventually going to go into fiction. I so hope. So there's some people working really hard to make it happen. I think. So I think so and it's just, it's a matter of time and timing but until we reach that spot until we reach the point where audio fiction becomes mainstream. I think that we're all as creators need to wear tons of
hats. And I didn't know after effects, when I started this journey, I learned After Effects, but stuff together, make make music all the trailers that you listen to are. Actually all just, you know, I kind of I went in there on my Premiere Pro even not even an audio software for for God's sake.
But I went in there and I spliced everything together and I sent it to age and I was like this is how I want it to sound like now, make it sound good and then AJ would take that be like, okay, Nick this is great, this part, not so great. We're going to change it. So I think we all need an AJ in our life and I'm very thankful for him. She became of all these amazing people just get it from each plug. Cast and put them all together and the world's head will explode with a awesome that can
happen. Right? I love it. Yeah, I think it's about time. We talked more about Apollo then don't you? I think that's that's one of the adventures people need to invest in. So yeah. I've been very excited about the appearance of Apollo on the landscape. I think. Yes. Audio fiction people do need to be celebrated and easily findable. So tell folks who are listening if for some Another die water. Polo is what is Apollo, how did it come about and why is it so groovy? Thank you, Sarah.
Well where do I start I guess I'll start with just look making. A Fiction podcast is difficult. It's hard to distribute your work. There are more than I think 9,000 Fiction podcast out there just based on our own research that we've done here internally, perhaps even more if you consider worldwide right I think more and more other countries. Then I'm from languages other
languages. I'm from Brazil and I know Brazil is that is the second largest growing podcasting country outside of the outside of the US. Astounding, I am speaking to danil a better stain. Eraser excited to get the Monday, F. Oh my God, as we say, in Brazil, Mundo Ambassador, which means send him a hug for me. Definitely do that audibly. Yeah. Yes of course.
And yeah, I would say So the journey for Apollo really started with Eclipse again, we started with this journey of trying to make a Content Studio. Our idea was we're going to be creating this amazing bunch of content. We still have those plans with Apollo. We still have in our internal production team.
We still want to keep creating original content like Earth Eclipse season 2 and plus a plethora of other stories I think we have like up to like 15 or 20 stories in our back pocket that we're just like waiting to get it out there. Yeah, so we so we really started like we we felt firsthand as creators the difficulty that audio fiction creators go through and not everybody is as lucky as we are in the sense that of all the awards and all the going going to festivals.
And again, even if you get all of those just from our experience from Earth Eclipse, it does not mean success. And I think that that was one thing that we realize is that We went to Tribeca. We talked to so many creators so many creators, had three or four jobs to try and keep, and try, and try and try and keep fiction podcasting going.
Yeah, and the difficulty is, how do I, how do I start to monetize on my work and and look, maybe maybe you want to release your your content out for free and that's great. But as we know making content costs something whether or not that's your time or your money and time is so precious. And so what What ends up happening is that you just there are very little possibilities for fiction. I mean, advertising is great, but we don't produce the same
way as nonfiction does. We don't produce on a weekly basis. If anything fiction podcasters, if they, if they have a show that they're capable of doing will do it every month or every two weeks that they'll launch a new episode gosh, every week? Yeah yeah yeah, hands up. If you've been their hands up if you're doing it. Yes take a bow, your praise But we love you. Yes, and good for you, if you're doing it.
I mean, I think that if you're able to tap into the Avid D advertising Revenue that you can get from podcasting, that's great. Now, I will say that even the largest broadcasting like groups that do advertising. It's very difficult as well for them because the advertising revenue is not enough to make sure that you cover all your costs that you have involved with it, especially if If you want to and all of us want to pay our actors. Well, all of us wonder they are musicians.
Well we don't want to beg for money anymore. Just being frank. Like please give me money to make my new show. That is not how this industry should work and I'm happy that so many people support each other. Yes but spent a fortune got ya. And I mean everybody in this pod casting industry is going to get at one point that manscaped, email asking to do advertising for manscaped on your podcast at some point.
We decided that manscaped. It did not fit with our show but maybe men's game fits in with your show. But anyways I think my point is is that the opportunities for advertising are just not enough. And I think the other avenues for monetizing on your work, on being able to get a discovered are very small and your end honestly your kind of put at the whims of like these large Gatekeepers.
I mean I don't even know how many times we've submitted to Apple to feature us. They probably don't like us because we have our own platform. But that's okay. I think I think it's just very difficult for you to do all this stuff and we felt it firsthand. We felt the pains, we felt depressed. We felt down about what was happening in the industry and I think again, that's when we got the idea for Apollo, we were like what if we create a place only for Fiction podcast?
So no no, no nonfiction. No daily Morning podcast, about about the news. All we are doing Is just purely narrative stories and putting those narrative stories in a place where you can find them easily again, they're just so many types, so many types of Fiction podcast. I mean, I didn't even know, there were so many Fiction podcast and to be frank Apollo was almost a gift to myself because I didn't know that there were so many great fiction
podcasts out there. I'm just starting to learn about them now because of Apollo. And so we kind of put this crazy idea together and we were like look We know we want to be a Content Studio but the way how do the way how the industry stands right now? There's just no way that we'll be able to make this sustainable. How do we, how do we make this sustainable for ourselves?
And for everybody out there excluding no Fiction podcast, if you're a fiction pot because Creator, we will put you on Apollo and and we will categorize it correctly. So, that's when we started our journey, we basically pivoted from a Content Studio to a nap. We still make content in Like I explained before but we do feel like the app is almost like our priority at the moment. It's where we put a lot of our energy into when we started this out.
We had to scrape. All the RSS feeds of every single fiction show that was categorized as fiction. That was more than 20,000 shows that were categorized. And we went through that entire list with a team and we categorized everything we said, okay, this shows an anthology the show's horror. This show is action adventure. And we gave them each one of those specific tags and the result of all this hard work is Apollo podcast, which is basically the place for you to go for Fiction podcast.
It's entirely free. So you don't have to pay for the app. And once you get on the app, you can explore all the different kinds of fiction podcasts that are out there. We have carousels specific for every differ for specific kinds of podcast. So, for example, cinematic adventures, sci-fi Adventure, There's we make lists of those basically are carousels, are our
list. Yes. So we create a variety of these different lists even, even with other creators, I mean, Tolman ear has helped us out Carolina beings has helped us out Ella as well, has helped us out. Yep. And it's and it's been absolutely just fantastic to see all the support that we've been getting from other creators because I think other creators see the need for something like this. They see the need to have these shows.
To be exposed. And if you're if you're a large show, great, you know, if you spend a million dollars on your show and you know, you have these A-list actors you're not going to have a problem getting your show discovered because somehow everybody's going to want to put your. Yeah exactly. You'll yo, you'll have some additional help. So for us, it's really important to like Elevate the Indy community and Elevate the Indy fiction podcaster. And again, it's like, there's
just so much good content. I just started. I mean, I've been, I've been listening to In Blue from Esther Ellis and she's just absolutely phenomenal as well. Just truth up. That was just come out to now, right? Yeah, Godly wire as well. Yeah, we even made. Yeah, we even made made a list on Apollo for the Goblet wire because the Gaba wires actually a collection of different creators.
So we want people that listen to the gobbler wire to find these other creators and to find their other shows. I think also too what you can do with the app is we have a tagging system, so every show is tagged. Owing to the kind of genre that they are, the kind of format that they are, any kind of important tags on them, like drug use or violence. You can, you can, you can see what those tags are. And then on the app, you can
also mix and match those tags. So, let's say you were like, I wonder if there is a western Space Opera Adventure that I can listen to on a follow, you can, you can click on all those tags and then it will show you all the shows that are related to to that tag. So we're very proud of the of the system of Apollo and look, we're still early on the app is still in very much. Its early phases. We've had technical difficulties along the way.
We've had issues issues that we've that we've had to like problem solve on the spot. But you know with the community's help and with the help from people giving us feedback and giving us ideas on what on What on what on What could work better, I think we can start to elevate this
podcasting. Map Apollo to be, not just a place for Discovery and listening, but even eventually a place where maybe creators can start to get their shows funded, or maybe they can find ways of getting their bonus content out of doing something different from what's on patreon or Kickstarter. And I think that's something
that's dearly needed. Because I think one of the issues that we talked about earlier is this is this, when you ask people to go to your patreon, you're asking them to leave to go to a different platform to go on their web. And I think if we can put it all together in one place, God, I think. Wouldn't that be beautiful? I could see a bright future. Yeah, no, I love it.
And I mean, even I contacted you at some point to ask you because in daf isn't as such audio fiction but it's, you know, it's very much Holden in celebrating it and you created the analysis kind of tag on that we do those just groovy of you absolutely. You know it was actually a Larger conversation here internally and I think where we landed was, you know, there are so many kinds of fiction podcasts. And anyone who is creating something that will Elevate
those fiction podcasters. I think deserves to have a spot on Apollo. So thank you, Sarah. Well, he's glorious to be chatting to fix. Like you write is Is kudos to your team for doing that and I think where can people find out what to do? What do they do? If they want to join Apollo? They just download the app and jump on. Yeah so the app is both on Android and iOS.
You can download it from the store and when you download it, you're a part of it. You're apart of Apollo, pretty much feel free to send us any feedback that you find on the app, anything that goes wrong with your experience. We read every bit of feedback that comes in and we try to respond to each one of them as well.
So, If you put your email down we'll get back to you regarding any kind of issue that you faced and anything that we can do to help your listening experience get better and I think as Apollo grows, we really want to build a community around Apollo. We want amazing creators to be a part of this community.
We want to mazing listeners and fans that just love this work to come together in one place and to just share the love for audio fiction as much as we do. And and, and I think it's, it's, you know, II. We also have a Discord if you want to join our Apollo Discord I think you're going to ping me the link to yes. Yes I'll be okay.
I'll send it to you Sarah and then from there, you know, you have direct contact with us. You have direct contact with a bunch of other creators that are on the Discord as well. So it's a good way that if you're starting off as well, if you're just starting to make your first Fiction podcast, it's a great way for you to just meet other people to talk to them and engage with other creators figure out. Their mistakes where what their successes were and learn from
them. And you know, people ask me, where do you see Apollo in five years? And I tell them, you know, not even in five years I think in a couple years Apollo's, going to be the place for Fiction podcast. It's going to be the place for us to go for us to listen for us to talk about fiction podcasts for us to bring the community together. That is my dream. Sounds like the best coffee shop in the world with a barn and comfy beanbag. Bags. Thank you.
Sarah. Yeah. I, you know, I think we really want to make a difference. And again it's where we're not just doing this for ourselves where we see the issues that everybody else's faces and we and we want to help and even if there's any way that we can help in Apollo reach out to me, like, there is nothing. I mean, shoot me an email on Twitter or a, I mean, I never used Twitter. So I say email on Twitter, please. Send me a message on Twitter.
Shoot me a message on Discord. Email me, I will get back to you and if you're a fiction Creator, let's figure out ways of exposing your show of exposing the things that you're creating, what we do a lot with other creators is will put them on the featured pages of the app or we'll figure out a carousel for them. Like let's do a carousel that revolves around, rom-coms sweets, climb drunk and all the
rum dry rub. Yes, yes but yeah, I'm listening now, if by sharing this particular episode, for example of India, F, hopefully other people will find, you know, knixwear and Apollo pods to, and then that more community-minded spirit will be shared, and that will just be a beautiful thing. So, yeah, get proactive and help us to build this community to something even more glorious than it currently is. Sarah, but you have been a stunning guest.
I'm so excited about what you're doing and thank you from the bottom of our hearts listeners and creatives. And, you know, everybody involved in making, I think you're doing absolutely wonderful thing, so keep up the good stuff and yeah, I hope your are the clips continues to gain more listeners and more Awards and accolades as well as Apollo getting to be known as one of the most groovy about pod, captured out there. So yes, good luck in the future
and just keep Being amazing. Thank you Sarah. It's truly been an honor to be here and I'm a huge fan of your work as well. Sarah, you are a staple name. I will say, I have seen the Sarah name. Get tossed around quite a bit so just truly thank you. It's been an honor to be here and if you need anything, just please let me know. I'm typing a message as this week. We're happy, creating an absolute Legend, enjoy. Enjoy making all the things you can and have fun. There, take it out.
Meanwhile, at a law firm in megalopolis. Welcome Harbor. Hello. I am Luis Law Office. Integrated Systems around the offices. Let's meet your team. No cat. The lunacy is too similar to night kids costume. Do you want to be sued for trademark violation by her Sidekick is only 12, so she'll need to comply with supervisory requirements or she'll run afoul of child labor statute. It's wow, busy night.
Why is my orientation at night? The coffin, King level the building without a hero license, cause he's liable. Where's my blood smoothie? He is, why from the Faustian nonsense Network comes a scripted comedy podcast. That asks, what's it like to practice law in a world full of superpowers super suits coming soon to your favorite podcast platform? Orm.