Get A! I'm Jelly, aka Daniel Farrelly. And this is Independence, a show where Curtis finally won an Apple Developer Award and in doing so met the stringent standards as required by Alice and I in order to bring us all back together onto a FaceTime call and record a special reunion episode. I mean it's about time Curtis. You're telling me, I mean, you talked Apple about that one. How does it feel to be recognized for the excellent product that slopes is?
Honestly, I've been struggling with it, which is a weird answer, but I feel like I don't know how to stop and smell the roses, see previous episodes that hasn't changed in the last two years. So honestly, it's just kind of been, hey, I had a glass of scotch, celebrating, right? Okay, cool, back to work. And I feel like it really hasn't sunk in. And the other people who are working in slopes now have done a better job celebrating than
I have. So you know, a classic Curtis just working too much and bearing himself in work and all that fun stuff. I should probably get a therapist again. Well, can I just say, as the resident mom, we are very proud of you. So proud. And I feel like it feels like a win for all Indies to be honest. And it felt to me like the entire iOS Indie community was rooting for you. And you should soak it in. Please like on our behalf, soak it in.
And we'll see about that. That did make me think actually credit to I guess Apple because carrot one last year, which is another India by Brian and great app definitely deserved it. But like I noticed this year too, they definitely seem to be featuring some newer unknown apps as finalists in the ADA. And it's really cool to see them kind of pick people out of the community that aren't the obvious like procreate, which should just get a lifetime
achievement award at this point. But it's not just the big apps, which is always nice to see. So I thought that we could come together because obviously Curtis finally met out, you know, just really just a bad minimum of our status. But you know, and this is why I never stop working because nothing I do is ever good enough for you, Charlie. I just said we're proud of you. It's jelly's approval I need. I see. But I figured we could come together and have a bit of a chat because it's been a couple
of years now since Independence ended. And we've all gone off in different directions. I know that we feel like the three of us are some sort of weird little family where Alice is clearly the mom. And I'm clearly the very disappointed dad. And Curtis is just trying hard winning awards and everything. It's okay. Yeah. He's the overachieving kid. But I figured we could just talk about where we've gone to because when we ended in Independence, we were all going off into our separate directions.
And I was having to go back to work and look after my daughter and Alice, you were sort of heading off to focus on your career and Curtis was. And I was left here standing and crying as you to abandon me and just walked away. Okay, money bags. Let's just put that out there. No, no, no, no. But none of this when we split and went our separate ways, I didn't go anywhere. I'm still standing here. And you two were just like, talk to us when you have an ADA. That's exactly what I said.
There's literally how the conversation went a couple of years ago. Talk to us when you have an ADA. I'm curious as to how you feel about whether or not you're independent to this point because obviously we've all gone through stuff. And I think we're at very different points in our lives at this point. And so I guess I posed the question, do you feel like you're an indie? If I'm thinking about just Gus on the go, is it trudging along? It sure is. Did we hire
someone to slowly work on it? Yes, we did. So does that so qualify? Look, I'm going to say that you get to choose whether it qualifies or not because it's about whether or not you feel like you're doing an independent thing, right? I don't necessarily feel like being independent is like something that anybody else can define for you. I mean, it sort of is in that like most people would consider an independent being independent of, I guess, larger companies and stuff.
If you're still trudging along, then trudging along is good, yeah? I think so. It's not like we received outside help. There's no other funding. We're still subsisting on our measly income to pay the developer. So it's there. We just aren't spending a lot of time on it, which is sad. Well, so you could be part time indie. That could be a thing part time indie. Let's call it that. Let's call it that. And I mean, that's how a lot of people start out, right?
True. Yeah. So the answer is yes. And some of us start out as part time indie and then go full time indie and then go part time indie again. So, you know, there is that. And that's sort of where I'm at because after Zephyl was born and I took some time off to hang out with her, then like it became very clear that we needed me to be working again for monetary reasons. And so I ended up having to get like a job job. I could have gone
back to the contracting thing because like I could have, there's still there. It's a thing that people can still do. But that requires all this extra time. So I was like, I'm not sure that I want to be spending at least part of my day trying to sell myself to try and get clients. That's just doesn't sound like fun. This street corner wasn't appealing to you selling yourself. No, it's the real high shorts that really do it for me. Yeah. I can see that.
Bunches. That's why I prefer the pants, right? So for me, yeah, it's I guess it's a little bit tricky because hired an employee. She went full time a year ago hired my second employee. She went full time as we record 10 days ago and part time. Andro developer and over last winter, we had five people working part time on the mapping project for research and data gathering. I've going.
Geez. So you know, slopes is slopes is grown. But I think see previous shows. If I remember correctly, the definition of indie that we kind of resolved that was, do you have anyone dictating if you need to wear pants? And I think I can still proudly say no, no one is dictating that. And I do not dictate that to my employees. So I think I still qualify as indie, even though it looks quite different. But I mean, at the end of the day, slopes is
still I am the iOS designer and developer for the web for iOS for watch OS. It still feels pretty indie to me. I just have people helping me with the other parts of running a product, which is very important in no way diminishing that. But I think because it's still a solo developer operation and solo designer, it still feels very indie. It feels like not much, but the budget has changed really. And I've gotten some things off my plate like
customer support and stuff like that. See previous episode of me having PTSD because of customer support. That's no longer a problem. So things have changed, but I think I'm still indie. I mean, there's such a thing as indie studios, right? It could be that you've moved from being an indie to being a person at an indie studio or the lathe of an indie studio. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I actually like that. It's a good reference
video gaming. But yeah, you see that all the time, little indie dev shops that make some of the best games and there they would call themselves indie. And given that slopes shows up in the entertainment section of my app library, I'm going to go with why not? It could be a video. Yeah. Thanks Apple for some reason sports. They just shove all apps under the sports category into that entertainment folder in your app library because that makes a
ton of sense right there. I guess they're usually thinking football, but still not cool. Use it as a reason for why you can call yourself indie. Yes, indie games studio and entertainment therefore, yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Go away like that logic. I like it. So well, even though we all still feel indie, I actually really want to bring this all back to what brought us all together again, which was your ADA. And I'm so I'm just itching to hear more about
that experience. Tell me more Curtis. Oh God, you're going to turn this into the Curtis episode, aren't you? I don't know. It was nerve wracking. So I think they started with it last year or two years ago that they would announce finalists as well. And so the same
thing happened this year, I actually found out about a month before dub dub. And so the month leading up to dub dub, I was just this little ball of anxiety, but I couldn't tell anyone except for Paula and you know, I had to kind of keep that under wraps till the official announcement. And so I was just stressing like hell because I thought that I've been wanting
this forever. I've been working towards it and trying to be a good platform citizen. But like I just thought there was no way in hell slopes, whatever when I think there are plenty of other apps out there. But then as soon as it dropped the announcement on I guess June 2nd, then I saw I was up against two other great apps. And I'm just like, yeah, there's no way. This is not happening. One of the app was Transit, which is a great public transportation
app with a lot of great interactions and animations. And I love their UX. And they were up for it. So it was just like, yeah, this is no way, which is increased the stress. And it kind of made it hard to get into excitement for dub dub. Honestly, I was definitely very, I think back on my mind focused on that. I was trying to just move forward and work. But everything in my brain was kind of focused on that award ceremony happening at 430 on
Monday after all the fun announcements and everything like that. So does that answer your question about what it was like? It was just a bunch of stress. I hope you do a lot more fun than that. I know. Honestly, that is the most Curtis answer that I've ever heard in my life. It's like, what was this really exciting moment in your life about? It's like, yes, just stress. It just just just all stress man. Nothing that
stress. No, I mean, honestly, I just I had a hard time. Let me rephrase some of that. I thoroughly enjoyed WDC. And I think that this is a wonderful format for them. And they did a great job. And they knocked it out of the park with this one. And I hope that they build on what they started this year for future years. So I had fun. There wasn't a lack of fun. And it was great to see the community while I was there. That's totally supper
from the ADA. But it definitely kind of back of the mind stressed the entire time that was hard to shake, which was definitely annoying. And then once they announced it, like sitting there, you know, we watched the same video that you all watched publicly. And I was assuming because we were actually doing it a half an hour before you all got the video. So I was assuming they were going to like interject the live actual awards and stuff, but they didn't,
which was a little weird. Yeah, I didn't see that. You all just read the news article. And that was it. But we had a whole award thing of like they were going through all the different categories in the apps and bringing people up. And like it was another, I don't know, 20 minutes of stuff. But even once they announced slopes and stuff, like, you know, I saw that they put on the big screen, like who won? So I saw my logo in the bottom left
corner. And it was just stunned disbelief. And I'm like, Oh, right. I guess I'm supposed to walk up and actually get the award now. I should probably do that. And I think I just kind of like tried to autopilot and get up there and stuff. Did anyone prompt you to tell you to go up? No, they had already given out plenty of awards. I think I was like halfway
through. So I know what to do. But yeah, I think I didn't let myself process it. I'm like, okay, the next thing I have to do, get on stage, shake hands, do all that kind of stuff. It was kind of back to work right away is kind of how it felt. It was hard to really bask in the moment as much as I tried. It's just, I don't know. It's not me. I don't like the spotlight as much as I have a podcast and talk on Twitter. I really don't like it
when it's like all eyes on me. So I think it was just kind of like trying to get out of there. But yeah, I, well, that makes the experience sounds so bad. No wonder Powell has been on me for like, you need to learn how to enjoy this. Yeah, she's right as usual. Fortunately, she hasn't listened to the podcast. So yeah, she won't have to hear me stress out about it again. But I mean, there was an asshole ceremony after the fact with the finalists
and like Craig was there and everything and got to talk to people. And it was, you know, it was a good time. But yeah, I think I just, it's hard for me to celebrate. I have to, even with everyone around me trying to force me, it doesn't happen. The most I do is like, I'll pour myself a single glass of scotch. And that's my celebration. Go me. Okay. What up to video? Am I watching next? I have to say when I saw the picture of slopes projected
behind you. And it was just like, I don't know, a couple stories saw it felt like that was the coolest. It's like similar to when you see something that you design and print. Like this was just massive. Oh, yeah. That was so cool. Yeah, it was pretty cool to see it up there. It was weird because they asked for like B-roll screenshots and like designs
I had done over the years and stuff. And they actually picked this super like the original 3D graph that I had designed back before it did the 3D mountains and use that as part of it. And it's just like, wow, I haven't seen this text since like 2016. And here it is on the ADA slide. Yeah. Like I mean, it looks like a compelling cool looking graph and all about like, it's a little weird. See such a dated like I've moved on from this stuff.
It's your growth. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's celebrating as the journey as much as like the destination, I think. Like they're celebrating the fact that you've put in the work to create this amazing design. It's not just about the design itself. It's about the story that is behind that design. Or it should be. Yeah. That's where I wish I knew like I wish I could be a fly on the wall. So they have a panel that judges the finalists. And even when
or lose like I really wanted and let's be clear, I assumed to lose. Yeah. I'm normally such an optimist, but when it comes to me, I'm just a realist quote realist slash pessimist. Pesimist. Yes. Just not realist pessimist. I really wanted to be a fly on the wall and learn about what they said were negatives in all the various apps and really see like where
things could improve and learn from that. I think that would be really interesting to see like what was important enough to them to disqualify an app from winning compared to the other two apps in that category. I think that would be really interesting to see like what Apple really cares about behind the scenes. And who knows, it could be arbitrary. It could be like, Hey, let's pick someone who starts with an S like we have no idea what's going
on. I want to say that's not the the process, but hey, probably. I mean, it could also be that it's a positive thing, right? Like it's not so much that they got to qualified because they had like a name or the font on this button is too wide. Oh, no, no, I'm not thinking that. Yeah. I'm thinking like they're like, Oh, well, slopes had more innovative visualizations than transit. For example, that I tried to be more creative with the 3d
mountains. Do they look at that? And then the negative of transit and like, how do they, how do the scales balance? I guess is more on looking at I don't think they look at the negatives at all. I think they just look at, you know, the creativity of the who is the most positive? Yeah. Every all of the apps are different. Like you're all in the say in similar categories, but you're all approaching things in different ways and
in different forms. And I think that it's not about the negatives. It's about you doing the thing that you are trying to do at your best and at the best that they've seen. And so it could be that transit was it's a really great app. I haven't used it myself. You clearly it's one that you aspire to. So like clearly, they're doing a lot of things very, very right. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing things more right. It just
happens to be that like you're the winner of the ADA, not them. I guess I'm just saying like I think there's something to be learned from whatever discussions they had when they were picking someone and maybe the word negative is the wrong word there. But it has a negative connotation. Yeah. Yeah. One might say. But I think there it would be interesting to learn like how those conversations went and what Apple found important. And are those even the
things that I think about like going into it. I'm like, you know what transit has it's I feel like their interface is a lot more fluid. Their animations are great. Like they have little some fun springy effects over the place of my animations. They're okay here and there, but they're not nearly as polished. You know, does that even come up as that on the radar or are they thinking like how easy is this app to rip out of your jack
a pocket really quick when you need to look something up and how efficient is it? Like that's what I mean. Like where are they seeing these apps shine? So you can get some of that from the design labs and stuff like that. But I'd be really curious at the highest level like what they think about when they dig into these apps to kind of judge them. I'd be really really keen for you to have gone to a design lab with slopes and been like
here, his slopes. Can you give me a critique after that? And then just sit the little ADA on the table in front of you. I'd be like, Hey, hey, is there anything that you can find wrong and just like push that his like maybe give it a little pat your little cube. Anything that you can find in like wrong with slopes that I could that I should know about and fix so that maybe I can like make this stack a little higher.
Are you able to win multiple? I think proc creates actually really couple of times. I feel like they've won more than once. Yeah. Now they are the poster child for iPad apps. Yeah. Well, there is that. Yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised they won more than once. But I'm pretty sure they did. You need at least four to be able to like hold up a bed or something. So you know, that's the goal. So here, jelly is already setting up that
one ADA is not enough. Well, we're doing it. For the next reunion, it's the next ADA. Okay. It's a milestone. Not a disappointment. I like how you two are finding a way to turn your abandonment to become my fault that future episodes don't happen because I don't win an ADA again. You two are very clever. Yeah. Well, I see how the last time that we did this, we left you hanging. I see how that got spun into being all our fault, even though it was
a no spin zone. There was no spin there. So I want to move this away from the Curtis show, speaking of me, not like me in the spotlight, back to what we were talking about with are you still Indy? Do you consider yourself that what we've been up to over the past couple years of abandonment? You know, looking forward, you two right now have kind of taken a step back from being full time independent and you're a bit part time right now. Still working
on the side projects, no abandonment there just with me. And my question is, do you two have any aspirations to get back into the full time independent life? Or do you feel like right now that sweet, sweet, steady paycheck has become just a little bit too sweet and you got to stick with that for a while. Jelly, maybe you're waiting till zephyrs into school and you have your daytime's back. Like what are you to see on your horizon for independence?
Ooh, that's a tough one. Why are you pointing the mirror back at me? How's it feel? I mean, I can say that it's not necessarily the sweet sweet paycheck. I probably haven't achieved that quite yet. But for myself, I think I've achieved different types of ideas, meaning that, you know, I've just grown a lot in my career in terms of like what I thought I was capable of. I've surpassed it and surprised myself. I know that, you know, every now and
then we check in and basically have a different job every time I talk to you. But this one that I'm currently in, I've just never felt this confident in my capabilities and in the short time that what I've learned as well as the people I feel like I'm growing at this particular job, it feels really good. So it's not necessarily the paycheck. It's the other types of rewards that I'm getting that I didn't know I was capable of.
Well, do you think you can spin that into your independent life, take all those learnings and use that to work on Gus on the go? Or do you think that's going to stay slightly separate from the tools you would need as an indie? Yeah, I feel like that what I've gained is more of the what feels more like not corporate, but just like a team, like a larger team with business outcomes and, you know, all that jargon and being more agile
blah, blah, blah, blah. Like all those things, I feel like it's always going to be overkill for indie, especially if it's just me, Yano and someone we hire feels like way too much where we just need the product to continue. So I've thought about that a lot. I just every time I jump into a meeting with Yano and our developer, I'm like, I don't need any of those skills. We just we're just checking in, seeing where things are going and moving
forward. So maybe if it grows, but yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Like maybe you don't need it right now while you're kind of on life support trying to get it out the door. But if Gus gets out the door and find some success, you could have a good product there that might need more structure. It might need some of those skills that you're learning to do anything. Yeah, I think so. And I am also low key trying to make connections that
will someday serve that purpose to, you know, find avenues to grow. And so being not necessarily in corporate world, but like the start of B world, I feel like I've also made a lot of new connections and places I didn't think, especially in education. I think there's potential to find either the right person to grow it or the, you know, or someone to back it, but it's so far away that I haven't really thought about marrying the two paths
yet. Do you feel like it's because you have been sort of heading in a direction that is away from Gus or is it something that you keep sort of looking to as something that you are working towards? You know, I'm doing this so I can come back to Gus as opposed to, I've left Gus to do this and someday I might go back there. So Gus is still my retirement
plan. So I know I have to nurse it and make sure that it is going to continue to be my retirement plan that I can just say it's time and I would there I go back to it or it's just actually going to continue paying like a small amount that I can live. I don't know overseas in another country that doesn't cost nearly as much as the US. That's pretty much it. That doesn't have 8% inflation. Yeah. What about you, Jelly? Are you a trader to the
Indie kind or do you plan on coming back? It's a harsh words, man. So harsh. Yeah, the gloves are coming off tonight. Sorry, not sorry. This is the confident Curtis I've been waiting for. This is the two years of pain that you two have inflicted on me and the dear audience that has been demanding these episodes come back. I'm a fighter for this. I don't think I'm a trader, which is just it just makes those words even more harsh. I don't think I'm
a trader. I have been putting in the hard yards on GIFRAPT and trying to get stuff out the door with it. I did just launch a Mac app. I'm a Mac developer. Amazing. To your credit, your shipping over the last couple years, you got a fresh kid and you're still shipping. That is and you're holding it a full time job. Well, it's part time job. I'll get some credit where I do. It's not an ADA, but you know, you're doing okay. Look, I am in a
good place at the moment. It's not an ADA, sure, but you know, I don't need an alien brick to prove my worth. My worth comes from within. Oh, that must be so nice. Can I please everythep? See previous episode of slopes is a reflection of me. I am in a good place. I've started working at itty bitty apps, which is a company in base out of Australia that I have always admired. I've admired the people that work there. I've admired the work
that they do. Being able to sort of be part of that company has been amazing. But also, I still have the aspirations. I still want to do my own thing. I still want to steer the ship. GIFRAPT is really important to me for a lot of those reasons amongst many others. I do keep putting in the time for it. I want to come back to it. It is a thing that is on the side, as opposed to in the rear view mirror or ahead of me, at the moment. That's
only because I can't see a way forward towards GIFRAPT at this point in time. It's definitely a thing that is like on the sidelines, even though I try to give it its amount of attention. It isn't the thing that gets all of the attention at this stage. Do you think your attention to GIFRAPT as you're talking about it now? It made me wonder the idea of you working on something on the side. Is that driven by a desire to be independent
or is that driven by a desire to work on GIFRAPT? A little of both. I like GIFRAPT. I also really don't like GIFRAPT. In a lot of ways, GIFRAPT is a blessing and a curse, which is to say that I do actually really like it, but it does come with a lot of complexities in so far as the community that is built around it and stuff like that. It's not that I don't like any of you. You're a lovely people. Just please don't send me porn. I...
CZMAL Jelly. The thing is, is that I want to work on something that is my own thing. Creating stuff is the thing that I love to do. It doesn't necessarily have to be GIFRAPT. GIFRAP just happens to be the thing that I feel like it gets the attention because I feel like I can justify giving it that attention because it does actually pay some money. I have other projects. They don't pay any money. Spoiler alert, they don't get any attention because
I just don't have the time to give to them. I want to be able to work on something that is my own and whether or not that is an independent thing, I think it's not the driving force of it. It's just that I want to be able to make some decisions and have a creative output. If that means being independent so that I can do that, then that's great. If that means that somebody else finances it and I'm just doing it as part of a job that
I get to have a little control, then that's cool too. I'm down with it. At this stage, I very much would say that my desire is to do that as an independent thing just because that's the way that I would see that heading. But again, as I said, it's definitely a thing that it's on the side of what I'm currently working on and where I'm going. It's the sidecar to my motorcycle. One day, it may be the thing that I'm heading in the direction
of, but today is not that day. We'll see if that ever changes. I find that interesting because that's a big parallel to how I think a lot of people start their independent journey. They're maybe working on something they found a little bit of traction with it, it's starting to earn a little bit of money. They tend to neglect some of their other side projects and focus on that because that's where it makes sense
to focus. I guess it's an interesting to see a complete circle there of you did that originally and then you were full-time independent, then you're doing a job and you still have an independent app. It's earning just enough to warrant being able to focus on it. That's where you feel like you need to keep your focus because the other things, it's hard when they don't make money. You've something that does that you still enjoy working on too.
It becomes your only outlet. I think an interesting parallel to people earlier in the journey, which is to say this shit never stops. It's one big circle of life. It just always comes around. I was talking to somebody the other day actually and they said something to me that was really stuck with me and I've been thinking about it a long time. I don't necessarily think it was that profound, maybe it was, but it certainly keeps coming back
to my brain. It was just that I surround myself with a lot of independent developers. I have a decent number of friends that are in the independent community and some of them are doing really well. A lot of them are doing really well and probably better than I am to be quiet frank. I sometimes get down on myself because I don't feel like I'm doing
well enough. I'm not doing well enough to be a true indie. Whether or not that's true is sort of beside the point, it's more that I need to be able to find the place in my own life that I have for working on my independent stuff and not focus on what other people are achieving with their ADAs and then being mentioned in the keynote and stuff like that. So you need to lower your standards to something that you can achieve is what you're saying.
I feel like I've lowered mine quite a bit anyway. No, no other accolades needed. Look, I'm pretty hard on myself. I'm not just hard on you, Curtis. I'm hard on myself. I have high expectations of the work that I put out. Thanks, Dad. I expect a lot from myself. I expect that I need to get something right on the first go. No second chances. It's
right for the first time or it's just like there's no point. It's a good driving thing. It helps me to drive towards being my best, but it's also the sort of thing that when I get there, sometimes I feel like I just didn't quite like a hit. I just sort of missed the
mark slightly. I need to be easier on myself about that, which is it has been a journey to try and figure out for me where the independent stuff sits within my life and whether or not that can be the full-time thing that I'm always working on or whether it's the thing that I have that I work on part time. The great thing is that anybody who I'm working for at
the moment, I work for them part time, not full time, just part time. The great thing about that is that it means that I have time to work on my independent stuff and I'd have days where I can just focus on that. That to me at this stage of my life is perfect. I'd probably like a little more days and I'd probably like them in a bit slightly different arrangement, but that's sort of beside the point. I have days. That's when GIFRAM gets
full attention. At this stage of my life, that's perfect. It's perfect for me. It's also good for my family, which is also super important. I think the thing is that being independent is real. It's a rough journey. It's not a thing that you just sort of walk into and achieve immediately. It is a thing that is tricky to pull off. If you do pull it off and
you're Curtis, good job mate. You've done well. All kidding aside, I think that is a hypothetical conversation with a fake Curtis or are you actually talking to Curtis right now? This is a real Curtis. This is directly to you. I don't know. My heart can take this dude. Don't say your proud of me. Don't say those words. Open your heart and listen to me for a second. Curtis, you've done really great. You've
done both of us really proud. You've done the indie community really proud. You put so much work and so much effort into the stuff that you create and it's an inspiration. I want to be in the position that you are in and I don't necessarily see that that's something that's going to be in my future at any point in the near future. Maybe later
in the future, but not right now. You've done amazing. I think that the ADA that you got is absolutely worth the hard work that you've put into it and it is a recognition of a job well done. In the words of my brother when Zephyr was born, good work mate. Oh my gosh. I'm like tearing that over here. I couldn't have said it better. I know I wrote a little mini essay on LinkedIn for you. I'm much more eloquent on paper than in person.
GZ guys, don't make me emotional. It's not a good look. I think that that is about all we have time for. So I would just like to say thank you for listening because the fact that you're listening is pretty impressive given that it's been two years since I last episode. They probably forgot that we're still in the RS as the and then it pops up. That's like a prize. I haven't seen this podcast in a while. No, thank you for listening.
It's been a great pleasure to be back for this special reunion episode. Just one singular. Please write jelly and send plenty of feedback to say that you demand more than one episode. I have proposed recording what we would call the lost episodes. You'll notice the plurality of episodes there. That is an option. If you can get these two mostly fine people to unabandon me for just a bit. So dear listeners, it's in your hand petition change.org,
wherever you want to put it. Make it happen. If you would like to talk to us, you can do so. We are all on Twitter. Sometimes. I am jelly bean soup. I am eat a duck I must. And I am parrots the plural of the bird. Thank you all again for listening. It has been a huge honor. We can't wait to talk to you again the next time that Curtis wins an ADA. Until then, goodbye. God dammit.