Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens, and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas. But before you go, I want to tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered? And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me, going out into the night sky and looking up and seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think
about God? And are you not in a moment of awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man, that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have this sense of awe through the work that they do. In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you to walk through the chapters written by people who all have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount, just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask for a copy of Have You Ever Wondered? And we'll send it right off to you as my way of
saying thank you, because we are listener supported radio. Or you can go online to in the market with Janet Parshall. When you're also on the website, consider becoming a partial partner. Those are people who give every single month at a level of their own choosing. You always get the truth tool, but in addition to that, you get a weekly newsletter that includes my writing and an audio piece just for my partial partners. So 877 Janet 58 or the website
in the market with Janet Parshall. Consider becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool. Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
The Americans worshiping government over God.
Extremely rare safety move by a mage 17 years.
The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated.
The idea is not bad.
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. How often do you hear me say on this program that what we aim to do clear transparency. Our agenda is to help you to think critically and biblically. And for the record, those are not mutually exclusive postures, by the way. It's not an either or. It is a both. And how do I know that? Because the Bible tells me so. My heart is transformed, my mind is renewed. But here's what I also know. My job is to gently, lovingly,
consistently push you out into the marketplace of ideas. Because that is exactly where Jesus told us to go. And it's a mess out there. And here's what I know in Your Pilgrim's Progress, as you must necessarily pass through Vanity Fair if you don't have, as John Bunyan called it, the map, which is the Word of God, you're going to get lost. And here's all the data that we know right now. We are growing more and more biblically illiterate.
I expect the world to act like the world. The world is doing exactly what the world does without Jesus. But it is the church where I'm far more concerned, where we are now getting a very diluted idea of what the scriptures say. We approach it like it's one of those buffet restaurants, you know, with the ones with the glass, and you just walk around and you take all the desserts you want, you take all the carbs you want, you skip the vegetables because after all, nobody
likes those. And when you're done, you have a pile full of calories and not much nutrition. That's the approach a whole lot of people are taking to the Word of God right now. They pick and choose. I don't like this part. It's uncomfortable. I don't understand it. I'm not sure it's really applying to our world today. By the way. Maybe there is some legitimacy after all. I read it in a checkout line at the grocery store that it was only an oral tradition handed down by
ignorant Bedouins. And by the way, the only eyewitnesses were 500 years after the fact that it was written. And guess what? The next thing you know, book of Colossians. Boom! You've been taken captive through vain and hollow philosophies. So with this, our specifically is designed to do is to help you think critically and biblically about the Bible. I have been waiting for this book. It sits on my desk and I've been arm wrestling with my husband as to on which desk it will finally sit. I think
he won. He gets to add it to his whole section of systematic theology, but for right now it's mine and I treasure it. It is a brand new book called Biblical Theology, a canonical thematic and ethical approach. Come on, come back in the room. This is not just for academicians. This is for you and me to understand how to understand the whole truth of the Bible historically, contextually, systematically. And that's what we're going to talk about this hour.
It is a marvelous book. Let me just picture it for you. It's about two inches thick. Now, if you're driving, don't do this. Just use your sanctified imagination. But just figure the space between two figures as two inches. What that means is it's a huge academic undertaking, the kind of research that only great academicians and great biblical scholars can do. And that's exactly who we're going to talk to this hour. One of those wonderful scholars, Doctor Andreas Köstenberger,
is with us. He is the theologian in residence at Fellowship Raleigh. He's an internationally known Bible scholar, a prolific author of over 60 books, and co-founder of Biblical Foundations. By the way, his website, Biblical Foundations, also features an abundance of resources and a complete list of publications. But he, along with Gregory Caswell, wrote this book and it was very much his heart's passion to be able to do it. So first and foremost, Doctor Köstenberger the warmest of welcomes.
And let me ask you why you decided to take such a huge undertaking.
Well, Janet, first of all, thanks for that great introduction, I really appreciate your, uh, just sharing our vision that that we ought to be whole Bible Christians. You know, our Bibles contain 66 books. And, uh, so often, as you mentioned, we we tend to kind of pick and choose and, and like Paul told the Ephesian elders that for three years he didn't cease from proclaiming to them the whole counsel of God. And so, uh, I agree, it's a daunting task to to write a book about,
you know, the entire Bible. Uh, and that's why it's so long. It had to be, uh, but our vision is to to serve as a resource and to serve as an aid for, for people in our churches to become whole Bible Christians.
Um, what a beautiful description. And may that be our goal to be just that whole Christians understanding the whole counsel of God so we can apply the whole truth of the whole gospel to the whole world. There's a synergy here that cannot be missed. So a couple of questions right out of the gate. I very much appreciated your opening chapter because you understood and stated quite transparently
the daunting nature of what this is like. So if we're going to look at this, let me just give a I'm going to do a flyover for my friends that this becomes more attractive for them as a resource that must be in their own library. So when I looked at this first and it again, it's a study of the 66 books of the Bible, how do you picture the average user using this particular book as a concordance, as a side by side with the Bible, as a
insightful viewing of a passage? Explain the way in which you laid this out, because you did it with a methodology so that it would become user friendly. Explain that if you would, please.
Yeah, that's right. I think there could be multiple ways people could use it. There might be some who patiently and slowly read through the whole book cover to cover, but I think probably more will look at it as a resource. We have a very detailed table of contents
and we have very thorough indices. And so I think anyone who say a pastor who preaches a sermon series on, say, the book of Hosea might just find the, you know, the 10 or 12 pages in the book that lay out the major themes in Hosea, the ethical teachings in that book, and how Hosea fits within the storyline of Scripture. And it would be, I think, a very good foundation for them to make sure that they do justice to
that book. So in many cases, people will simply or serious Bible students or people in the churches, uh, you know, would simply go to that section in the book that deals with the book that, that they're currently studying or they're about to study.
You right in the beginning. And if I may borrow your words, how do you wrap your brain around a library of 66 books written over hundreds of years by dozens of authors. What is the story the Bible sets out to tell? How do you know that your readings of Scripture is in keeping with its actual God intended message? What's more, as an inspired book, the Bible does not merely aim to impact the knowledge of God and His ways. It also seeks to draw us into a deep personal
engagement with God and others. So this isn't just a book you'd have to buy for your first semester class in college, if you were doing a survey of the Old Testament. This is designed for you and me to do a deep dive to better understand this inerrant, transcendent, immutable, inspired map for Our Pilgrim's Progress. We've got so much to talk about. And I'm absolutely thrilled and honestly quite honored that Doctor Andreas Köstenberger would give us one hour
of his time. It's a wonderful book. And by the time this hour is through, I hope you don't walk, but you run to get your copy back after this. Have you ever wondered why music moves us so deeply? Or why beauty takes our breath away? My Truth Tool this month is a thought provoking book that explores those moments of wonder we all encounter. It's called Have You ever Wondered? Consider how ordinary aspects of life point to
the extraordinary biblical truths. Ask for your copy of. Have you ever wondered when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758, that's eight 7758 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. We are visiting with internationally known Bible scholar and prolific author, Doctor Andreas Köstenberger, and we are discussing a brand new, and I would venture to say, a much beloved, treasured resource. That's what it is going to become. It certainly is
in our house already. It's called biblical theology, a canonical thematic and ethical approach. And we will break down those three sections for you. But you start out early in the book, Doctor Köstenberger, and I'm so glad you did in defining the words biblical theology. For some people, they might think that that's redundant. After all, isn't the Bible Christian theology? So if you break that down for us, how do you define it?
Yes, that's right. It's more than just theology that is biblical. It is actually the theology of the biblical writers themselves. And so, you know, sometimes what we do as Christians is we already have our own convictions and we we sometimes, you know, tend to read them into Scripture. But but ideally, we would listen to the text itself and we would
draw out what the biblical authors themselves believed. We would try to listen to what the authors themselves believed and intended to communicate to their original readers and also to us. And so in that sense, biblical theology is really the proper place to start for us, because we want to
know what the Bible says to us. We want the Bible to engage us and to inform us, even to change and transform us, rather to simply engage in this kind of circular reasoning where we find what we're looking for.
Beautifully answered. In other words, this is what sets it apart from war and peace. All right. There's this is again, a living book designed to change us, not tell us a good story, although the Bible certainly has many of those. But it is designed to change us. Let me go back to something you said, and forgive me if some of the questions seem pretty rudimentary, but I think going back and reestablishing a firm foundation is paramount, particularly when one is going to do a deep dive. So you
said the theology of the writers themselves. I believe that 100%. But I know there are people listening, some all across the country, who might say, but wait a minute. The individuality of the author here is secondary to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So how can it be the theology of the writers themselves? Weren't they simply scribes? If you can put it that way, for the Holy Spirit?
Well, it's not an either or, Janet, as you know. It's it's a both and and of course. Yeah. In the end we have a high view of Scripture. We believe that Scripture is inspired and inerrant, but at the same time, God used the individual personalities and interests and and style of of of the individual authors. You know, when you look at the 12 apostles, for example, in in the Gospels, uh, you just see how Jesus, uh, you know, picked people who are very different from each other.
And so, uh, you see that reflected in the way they wrote, and you have to look no further than the Gospels. And when you look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, especially John, you know, they each, uh, tell the same story, uh, about, uh, Jesus in history, uh, you know, coming to earth and, and, and engaging in the three year ministry and then, uh, dying and then being buried and rising from the dead. But, uh, they
don't tell it all exactly the same way. And so that's a great example, I think, of what biblical theology Theologies can do. It can help us discover the distinctive interests and ways to the different biblical writers communicated eternal truth.
Let me linger, because I think your example of the Gospels is readily understood. So the doctor Luke, would observe things, for example, that John would not. Now, that doesn't set up a paradigm for conflict. It's perspective. But it all leads to the same conclusion. Is that an oversimplification or is that correct?
Yeah, no, that's a great example. And so for instance, you find that Luke is very interested in in socioeconomic matters. He talks about poverty a great deal. He emphasizes emphasizes those who are marginalized in society, such as widows. And John, on the other hand, has very little interest in economics. He focuses more on our eternal destiny and the importance of believing in Jesus for eternal life. And so, uh,
you know, of course, both are part of a gospel message. Uh, but if we just read Luke or John, I think we would, uh, miss, uh, kind of important, uh, entailment of Jesus coming. But that is why it is so important for us to study all four gospels and by extension, to study all 66 books of Scripture. Because every book has a reason for being in the canon, we believe God chose those books for us to have in our scriptures, and so we need to do justice to the entire library of books that we have.
Yes. Excellent. You say in the book that and I'm particularly intrigued by this, that in North American conservative evangelicalism and you write, there's a new type of biblical theology that's begun to flourish based on a high view of Scripture and grounded in both historical research and literary study. Now, that excites me. Why do you think this this reinvigoration is taking place right now?
Well, I think there's a tremendous emphasis on story and to some extent that comes from postmodernism, but I think it works very well because the Bible is the metanarrative, the mother of meta narratives. I think it is the story that explains all other stories. And so that is why in our book, we place a great deal of
emphasis on the overall storyline of the Bible. You know, I think it's so easy sometimes for us to get hung up and, and, you know, in some of the details of Scripture and I think biblical theology, what's so beautiful about it is that it focuses on synthesis. It focuses on connections between the different books and different parts of Scripture the Old Testament, the New Testament, you know, the storyline, the progressive way in which God has revealed
himself to his people in history. And so I think that's one reason why I think biblical theology resonates very deeply with our culture today.
Wow. You made me think of something. So let me just pull over to the side of the road for a moment. You have a very impressive curriculum vitae. You are known as an international Bible scholar, as somebody who has studied and studied and studied and quite literally plumbed the depths of Scripture at this point. Is it all old to you? Do you know it all or in the vibrancy of this word? Are you still discovering new things in your own personal study?
Oh, absolutely. I almost every day and I immersed in Scripture, I discover new things every day. I remember, uh, just yesterday looking at Luke's gospel where, uh, you know, Jesus is entering Jerusalem at the triumphal entry, and the disciples are saying, uh, peace in heaven and glory to God in the highest. And I was thinking, wait a minute, that sounds just like the birth narrative, where it said, you know, peace on earth and glory to God in
the highest. So you see those connections. And, you know, for some reason I never picked it up before. So you're right. It's an exciting journey of discovery.
Yes, and very much an alive text. When we come back, I do want to look at those three subtexts canonical, thematic and ethical, and how that ties in to biblical theology. Back after this. Doctor Andreas Köstenberger is with us, theologian in residence at Fellowship Raleigh. He is also, by the way, the author of over 60 books and the co-founder of
Biblical Foundations. I have a link to his website at Biblical Foundations, but I'm particularly excited to have this conversation today with Doctor Köstenberger because he and his co-author, Gregory Carswell, have created what I think is going to be one of those irreplaceable resources in your legacy library. It's an overview of the entire Bible, all 66 books, and it's
entitled Biblical Theology A Canonical Thematic and Ethical Approach. Now, Doctor Köstenberger, I think some of us understand the canonical part. I think some of us might understand the thematic part. It's the ethical part that I think is going to be interesting to some people. But would you take those three words in order? I don't want to presume anything.
People are at various levels of study. And by the way, let me just tell you that this is the kind of book that could become your semester Bible survey class. It's that big, that important. And I think that rich. But those three words, if you break them down for us, please.
Yes. So canon refers to the library of the 66 books of Scripture that the early church chose to include in our US inspired collection our library of of of the Bible. And so what we do, uh, as a canonical approach, is we study, uh, each of those book by book, uh, starting with Genesis ending in Revelations. So it could be a great resource just for the canonical, uh, portion. Uh, and then, uh, for each book, we look at the
major themes and then we synthesize, uh, the. Uh, contributions, uh, for, for instance, the Five Books of Moses or for the Gospels and, um. And so that would be, uh, our canonical approach, uh, thematic uh, refers to, uh, the, uh, themes that we determine inductively just by repeated reading of that book. For example, uh, as you look at first and second Timothy and Titus, the so-called pastoral epistles, uh, we feature six major themes, uh, God and Christ, who
are called our savior, uh, teaching, especially scripture. Uh, the church is the household of God, uh, Christian virtues, the end times, um, and salvation. So we feel in some cases those are themes that are unique and that are distinctive of just those particular books. That's their contribution to the canon as a whole. And then finally, ethical. Ethical has to do with the moral teachings of Scripture. You know, Janet, Bible, the Bible is not just written for our information, but
it's written for application. It's not just written to inform believers, but it's written to tell us how to live. And so embedded in our book is an entire biblical ethic, which I believe is a first for biblical theologies.
I do too. And that's why I wanted to linger for a moment. You used the word postmodernism earlier. Let me go back to that word. You know, I think there are people out in the marketplace of ideas who would say, okay, I understand the canonical aspect. I don't dispute your thematic aspects, but when you get to the ethical part, when you get to the transformative nature of Scripture, therein lies the rub. If I can borrow from the great Bard, So I don't mind your historicity. I don't
mind your canonical approach. But when you tell me now what this book has to say about changing me, I have a problem. So it begs a whole, you and I could do ten hours on just this ethical aspect, but let me just dig into a couple here, particularly for those who think they've stumbled onto this conversation and may be questioning the legitimacy, the historicity, the validity of
God's Word. So is it safe to say that when we look at the moral teachings, the ethical changes that are brought about in each and every human being, if they apply the word of God, can we say that there's an expiration date? One of the arguments in postmodernism is that was meant for a different day and time. It has no relevancy to the 21st century. Can we say that about and I'm not talking about the mosaic, the mosaic law. I'm talking about the general transcendent expected
rules of deportment and honoring a holy God. Does that have a time date on it?
Uh, not at all. And, uh, Janet, I totally get your drift here. And I think that's very important to understand. And in our book we particularly focus on the love of God, the love of God for us, uh, people as as sinners and and redemption. He provides in Christ. And and as we read in Scripture, God is love and and and we love because God first loved us. So at the heart of the biblical narrative, we believe is a loving God who wants us to reciprocate that
love by loving him. Uh, like Jesus said, the first and greatest commandment, and then to love others the way Jesus loved us. So that would be probably the most important example I could give you in the short time we have, you know, for how, uh, the biblical message is transcendent and not merely subjective.
Um, beautifully stated. Does the word of God, uh, again, some rudimentary questions here. If it is about the love of God and most assuredly is God is the only one of whom it is said, is love. so that in and of itself should stop us in our tracks. But is the book designed to reveal the characteristics of God so that we might know him better or. Again, I asked for the seeker. Is that experiential? We don't. We only know him by experiencing him. We can't know him through his revealed word.
Yeah. Of course. Um, all of Scripture is, is, uh, presupposing the existence of God and the fact that he's the creator, he's the sovereign ruler of the universe. And so, uh, you know, that increasingly, uh, that is what, uh, our culture is denying. And so, uh, you know, that is where we need to to dialogue. We need to, uh, explain to people that that there is, in fact, a, a God who created the universe and who who has a design, a design for, for male and female. And
he also has, uh, he's holy. And so he has expectations how he wants his people to live. And so that is what we break down in our ethical dimension of our book.
Absolutely fascinating. The book is called Biblical Theology a canonical thematic and ethical approach. I can't believe we're halfway through our conversation. We're going to get into the way in which the book is laid out. Remember, you could spend the rest of your life reading this book and you'd still want more. There's a lot here. We're going to continue with Doctor Köstenberger right after this. The Bible says
the Word of God illuminates our walk through life. It's a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. Without it, we stumble and fall in the market with Janet Parshall is designed to help you look at the headlines of the day through the lens of Scripture. When you become a partial partner, you help to make this broadcast possible, and as a partial partner, you'll receive exclusive benefits. So why not become a partial partner today? Call 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
I've discovered a new resource that is going to remain in the partial library, and I strongly recommend it be a part of your library as well. It's called biblical Theology, a canonical thematic and ethical approach. It is co-authored by Gregory Caswell and our guest, Doctor Andreas Köstenberger, who is the theologian in residence at Fellowship Raleigh. He's an internationally known Bible scholar, a prolific author of over 60 books,
and the co-founder of Biblical Foundations at that website, Biblical Foundations. Org, which I have linked on our information page. There is a plethora of resources and a complete list of publications, and prolific is the operative word when it comes to the writings of Doctor Köstenberger. If you are just joining us, the warmest of welcomes. But I simply do want to encourage you to listen to the first half, because Doctor Köstenberger enters some rudimentary questions and does a flyover of
this book. It is a look at all 66 books of the Bible. He breaks it into two parts the Old Testament and the New Testament, and as the subtitle suggests, he not only looks at the books that are inspired and in those 66 books, but also the major themes that are in the Bible and also the moral teachings we find in Scripture as well. Let me see if I can go to the fact that you broke the book up into part one and part two. And again,
on one level, this is a rudimentary question. On the other hand, it's very emblematic of the deconstruction of faith that's going on out there, sadly, in the church capital C universal today. It's a foolish conversation, but it's emerged and it's been picked up. And ideas have consequences and foolish ideas have foolish consequences. The suggestion has been made that we should disconnect the old from the New Testament. Aside from the fact that you labeled it part one
and part two. I see no disconnect whatsoever. In your book Biblical theology, there is a linkage, is there not between the two? Do we consider one to be old, one to be new, not just by the descriptor of the timeline, but its application to our life is one a picture of an angry God, the other a picture of a Savior with children on his lap. So we want to get rid of the God of Judgment and
just go to the gentle, meek Jesus instead. In other words, there's a profundity in this question because, as I alluded to at the start of our conversation, this goes to the a la carte part of Scripture. Doctor Kastenberger I don't see anywhere in his word where I'm given permission to have a pick and choose approach to Scripture, whether that's the old and new or any passage I find anywhere in the Bible with which I find a problem in terms of its personal application. Talk to me about this.
Absolutely, yes. We certainly don't think we should ditch the Old Testament. We wouldn't have 350 pages on the Old Testament in our book. And certainly my collaborator Greg, he would vehemently argue that the Old Testament, uh, is foundational. Uh, that is where we have, uh, you know, uh, major messianic prophecies, uh, that the, uh, the, the New Testament Gospels pick up on. And, you know, I invite the readers especially. We have an entire chapter on the New
Testament use of the Old Testament. Uh, chapter seven, where we draw the connection between the two. And then, uh, the section on the New Testament shows how all four Gospels are just deeply and thoroughly grounded in Old Testament prediction, typology, symbolism, and so forth. So obviously, you know, people need to really, uh, get the book in the short time we have, we
can't fully unpack the relationship between The Testaments. But those are all very important questions for biblical theology to address. And so you asked exactly the right question. And we're trying to do that in the book.
Yeah. I'm so glad that you again devoted an entire chapter to this. And again, there's so much here. It's like it's like you and I having one hour and trying to digest a semester's class, and we wouldn't even, we wouldn't be able to do it in a semester. It'd be a year long class. So I want my friends to understand the depth and the width and the absolute richness in this new book, biblical theology. I'm giving you a flyover. I want to get you excited about this book. I want you to go out and get
your own. And when you see this treasure of a book, you're going to understand that there's no way to summarize in an hour what's in this book, any more than Doctor Köstenberger could summarize what's in the Bible in one hour as well. So I'm lingering at some of these spots on purpose, so that you could hear Doctor Köstenberger and understand the continuity of Scripture here, which is, I think, not to be missed. It's one of the one of
the blessings of the Word of God. So let me go back to the idea of the linkage between the two, if it weren't important. And by the way, I love the study of types in Scripture, I just those are the neon signs that God uses to tell us and tell us and tell us again. So we can't say we ain't been told. That's profound theology, according to Janet Parshall. So going back to this idea of the linkage between the two, if the Old Testament weren't significant, why would Jesus reference it so much?
Absolutely. You're exactly right. You have to look no further than Jesus and the four evangelists as well. Um, and I think you know what we do in the book. Greg and I both we have sections where, uh, Greg talks about major themes in the Old Testament, and then I talk about major themes in the New Testament, and then we synthesize that in terms of the storyline of
Scripture and the major biblical themes. So we want to make sure we don't just, uh, you know, submerge the Old Testament in the new, but we want to do justice to the Old Testament as a very important book in its own right, with its own distinctive themes and its own contribution to the library of Scripture.
Yes. Amen to that. So early on in my marriage, I knew that I had married the right fella. When our first Christmas together, he asked for his Christmas present to be Schaefer's Systematic Theology, which is a multi-volume series, by the way, and he went through the entire thing at the beginning of the book. You talk about using a paradigm of exegesis to biblical theology, to systematic theology. What is the distinctive between biblical theology and systematic theology?
Great question. And I think that distinction is very important. So biblical theology is essentially inductive meaning we come to it with no theological system as such. And as much as possible, we're opening ourselves up to discovering in Scripture what the authors themselves wanted to communicate. And so we look at the historical setting, we look at the literary context, and we look at the theological message is what I
call a triadic hermeneutic of history, literature and theology. And so, as much as possible, we make some sort of a cumulative case that that we look at each book, book by book in its own right. And only after we've done that, we try to synthesize the biblical message on a thematic level, on an ethical level, and ultimately on a storyline of scripture level. So that is why the book is so long. Because imagine if you have to do that for all 66 books of Scripture.
Mhm. Mhm. Absolutely. Wow. So let me go back to the Gospels because you talk about you've talked about that before and you broke down. In fact one entire chapter in the book, Biblical Theology is entitled The Gospels. When you go to the New Testament. I thought that was this was interesting. You talk about the order of the books in the canon. In the New Testament. You talk about the relationship between the Testaments. We just touched on that.
Then you delineate the Gospels, the book of Acts, the letters of Paul, the general epistles, and the apocalypse, which I found absolutely logical and fascinating that it would be in that order if I were if I just landed here from another planet. And I said, what are these gospels? Why do they have that name? And why these four books in particular? Why are they so interconnected and so linked? What would you say?
Yeah, I think that's a great biblical theological way to look at the New Testament, to look at the major building blocks. And so if you look at it that way, the four gospels lay the foundation, right? They are centered on one person, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is really also the center of the entire Bible. Uh, the Old Testament builds up to Jesus and then the the rest of the New Testament explicates what salvation in Christ means practically for us as Christians. You know, for how we
ought to live. And so the Gospels are properly, uh, at the heart of Scripture and at the beginning of the New Testament, and they exhibit the new covenant that Jesus established with the 12, the, uh, the representatives of the church. And then after that you have the book of acts, which is essentially the narrative of how the apostles preached the resurrected Christ, the risen Jesus. And thousands of people responded and converted. And so early Christianity just
grew by leaps and bounds. And then you have the letters. The letters basically apply the gospel message to ordinary, everyday Christians. And finally you have the the second coming that's, uh, foretold in revelation, in the apocalypse. And so you have the New Testament, like a beautiful rainbow, uh, beginning with the first coming and ending with the second coming of Jesus.
And so even when you look at the whole Bible, Genesis and Revelation are just perfectly corresponding bookends, you know, from creation to new creation and from the garden to the new Jerusalem. And so, uh, I commend to people both biblical theology and looking at, at the Bible more synthetically, you know, how the different parts all fit perfectly within the whole library of the 66 books of Scripture.
Wow. Hearkening back to the question I asked you before about the linkage between the Testaments, this raises another interesting question. And if you look at some of the data and I'm fascinated by data, maybe it's because I'm here in Washington, but it's also revelatory, I think sometimes of the condition
of the church. So if you look at some of the research, for example, that Barnes has done, there are a growing number of Christians who don't think that Jesus was in the beginning, where the word was and the word was with God, that somehow he is a created being after the fact. If we disconnect the old and the New Testament, are we not just cutting out the prophecy and the foretelling and the types and the archetypes?
But are we not also negating the fact that the triune nature of God is manifest early on in Scripture, and Jesus is present from the beginning, all the way through to the end?
Absolutely. It's really a mistake to, in my Old Testament collaborator, really helped me understand that even better. The idea that God in the Old Testament is the Triune God. It is not just God the got the father. And so you're exactly right. You know, in the Gospel of John makes that clear than probably any other book in Scripture that Jesus preexisted with God at the very beginning already at creation. And it is through Jesus, the word that everything was created.
Amen and amen. The book is called Biblical Theology. It is an absolutely fabulous, must have resource for your own personal study. Pastors obviously overflowing with richness for you as well. But it's also for the individual student who is serious about Scripture. And I just poked my head outside my front door today. I think the time to get serious about Scripture is now. Let's get started back after this. We're talking about a brand new resource that should be
right there in your desks. When you're in your private time in the word, it's called biblical theology. A canonical thematic and ethical approach. It is co-authored by our guest, Doctor Andreas Köstenberger, who is a world renowned theologian and scholar in the Bible. By the way, it's clearly written. It's an analysis of all 66 books of the Bible. There's an emphasis on the coherent, unified framework of Scripture.
It helps you and me thoughtfully interpret the scriptures. And it's ideal for, as I said before, not just academicians, if you want to go that route, but pastors and people like, I hope you and me who are serious students of the word as well. So at the end of the book, you call it conclusion appropriately, but you use two very trendy words right now, and I'd love for you to talk about it in its application to a conversation about biblical theology. You talk about unity and
diversity in biblical theology. Unity and diversity. Break that down for our friends. I thought this was a fascinating chapter.
Yes. You know, this has been a long standing debate in biblical theological circles how you navigate the tension between the two. Because, of course, as, uh, people with a high view of Scripture, we naturally believe that Scripture is unified and it is unified because God is one and God is unified. He's not contradictory. And so the very fact that God inspired Scripture already tells us that, uh,
in the end, Scripture will be unified. It will not be, you know, it will not be found to contradict itself. But at the same time, uh, you look at, as I mentioned, the four gospels, for example, or, you know, Kings and Chronicles or, uh, the letters in the New Testament. And you see, there's a certain amount of diversity. We talked about that at the beginning of the interview, the fact that that the 12 apostles each had their own
personalities and their own personal style. And so I think, uh, you know, I've heard it said that that, uh, the measure of a of a good biblical theology is the way it is able to handle legitimate diversity in Scripture, rather than just kind of like streamlining or flattening it. Uh, just in a legitimate desire to to emphasize the unity of Scripture. You you don't do justice to its diversity.
So we're trying to to navigate that tension and to do justice to both the unity and the diversity of Scripture.
Yeah. And you do an excellent job. So let me go back to what you said before about how you emphasize the love of God. Um, and I'm so glad that you do, because I don't want to study this as an academician. I'm drawn to the one who loved me so much, he gave his life for me. I was guilty as charged. The wages of sin is death. A penalty had to be paid. And Jesus steps in as the great mediator between me and God and says, I'll pay that price for you. So I'm drawn out
of this incomprehensible message of the ultimate sacrifice. Go to the end of the book with the apocalypse, because there are a lot of believers to this day who look at this book and they let Hollywood be the theologian here. They let the movies teach them the theology. Why, in your perspective of the New Testament is this whole book that is the stuff of, um, well, wild fantasies for some people and outright fear for others. Why do you think God wanted this part of the book included? He
he is the author. Everything is there for our instruction and our edification. Why the book of revelation?
Yes, well, it is from a canonical standpoint. We need that book for proper closure of the entire canon. If we just imagine if we didn't have revelation, we wouldn't know how the story ends. We wouldn't have a vision of, of Jesus return of of of the eternal state, heaven. We wouldn't even have a record of the judgment of of of Satan and his demons. Uh, we wouldn't, uh, have, uh,
proper closure. And so, uh, looking at the book from a biblical theology standpoint, where you look at the big picture, I think it's clear to see that the book is not primarily about those, you know, uh, bizarre end time scenarios or, you know, the, uh, some of those fine points that we often, uh, you know, entire denominations are divided over. You know, it is essentially about, uh, the, the love of God that that sent Jesus to redeem humanity and, and those who care to believe in Jesus.
And and in the end, uh, there's consequences. There's judgment. We're all accountable to God. That's actually what brought me to the Lord, to be convinced that I would have to give an account to God one day for the life I lived. And I knew I couldn't do it, uh, in my own strength. And so that that that drew me to Jesus. And and that's how I trusted him.
Wow. Can I linger here? Because that's so interesting. I just heard a pastor say yesterday that again, we are drawn to the love of God, but we do ourselves a disservice, and perhaps we fail to live out our salvation with fear and trembling. If we ignore the fact that he's also a holy judge. Let me just linger on that for a moment, because that might be a day to day question that a lot of people struggle with, and it keeps them from diving deep into the Word
of God. So how can God be both a loving father, loving us so much that he did send his Son? But also, how can he be a holy judge? Again, we've used the phrase twice before, but I think it's apt in this. It's an it's not an either or. It's a both end. How does that work?
Well, my wife and I talk about that all the time because she's a forthcoming book also in biblical theology on sanctification. And so she is reminding me of the holiness of God, uh, all the time, and also on the practical need for me to be a holy husband. And you know, that is a daily challenge to allow the Holy Spirit to to help me in that area. But I think Scripture tells us that God is both, as you said to be. He's he's holy, he's loving,
he's also righteous. And I think the resolution comes in that he himself paid the penalty for our sin in the Lord Jesus Christ. Uh, one of my favorite verses in Romans chapter three. And, you know, starting in verse 21, it says, God is both just and the justifier of those who believe in Jesus. Isn't that a just a tremendous, wonderful verse that the judge himself came down in form of his son and paid the penalty for sin himself?
Yes. How often does a judge step in and pay the penalty for the criminal in front of him? Wow, that's so amazing. One last question, if I may, in an hour that's gone far too quickly. This is a seminal work. What is it like for you as a scholar and an author when you finally put the last word on and it's now bound, what do you think? Personally, when you look at a work like this, a sense of accomplishment? Or do you think, oh, if I had only included this, that and the other thing?
Well, I think, Janet, thanks for asking. For me, this is a very personal project. It culminates 30 years of teaching and writing and research, and I'm grateful for my collaborator, for Greg as well, to partner with me. I couldn't have done it myself. But together, I think, you know, we're both, uh, hoping that this will be helpful resource, because biblical theology is a great way to study scripture, and I certainly invite all our listeners to try it
for themselves and to study the Bible. Uh, biblically. Theologically.
Yeah. Amen. And may I echo that the book, again, is called Biblical Theology a canonical thematic and ethical approach. Let's be a part of that idea that we want a higher view of Scripture, and we're going to be a serious student of Scripture, because a great and loving God ended for our benefit and our edification. Thank you, Doctor Köstenberger. See you next time, friends.